Bad locker room players who were very good players

[1987_Lakers]

Elvin Hayes - Never heard his teammates say a good word about him. Came off as very selfish. Bill Fitch demanded Ralph Sampson to not hang around him.

Rick Barry - Most arrogant player ever. Robert Parish said he was shocked out how arrogant Barry was. Huge ego.

Michael Jordan - Teammates hated practicing with him. Called Kwame Brown a flaming faggo.t. Gave Steve Kerr a black eye. Messed around with Parish one time in practice, but Parish was ready to fight, MJ backed off.

2012 Lamar Odom - Quit on his teammates because he was an emotional bitch.

Any others?

[StateOfMind12]

Tracy McGrady - constantly threw his team under the bus and blamed all of his teammates for his failures in both Houston and in Orlando. He also quit on his teammates in both Orlando and in Houston as well.

Charles Barkley - constantly getting into fights with teammates in the locker-room, showed up out of shape frequently, got in trouble with the law,

[WeGetRing2012]

Shaq -tried to stunt the growth of Kobe,agrogant, demanded money from the owners in a rude way, came into camp out of shape, and constantly kept drama going between a young 22yr old Kobe when he was supposed to be the seasoned vet.

[no pun intended]

Arenas- Tried to shoot people.

[1987_Lakers]

Barkley is awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwc6Sdlhp9A

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Tracy McGrady - constantly threw his team under the bus and blamed all of his teammates for his failures in both Houston and in Orlando. He also quit on his teammates in both Orlando and in Houston as well.

Charles Barkley - constantly getting into fights with teammates in the locker-room, showed up out of shape frequently, got in trouble with the law,

You must not have watched Orlando T-Mac..... his teams there were some of the worst Ive ever seen, had he even had the roster of the 2003 Knicks he wouldve made the second round. Orlando's '02 (i believe) roster (aside from mac) was worse than the Charlotte Bobcats...by far..

So when your teammates are as good as Matt Carroll...youre allowed to blame them for being horrible.

[StateOfMind12]

You must not have watched Orlando T-Mac..... his teams there were some of the worst Ive ever seen, had he even had the roster of the 2003 Knicks he wouldve made the second round. Orlando's '02 (i believe) roster (aside from mac) was worse than the Charlotte Bobcats...by far..

So when your teammates are as good as Matt Carroll...youre allowed to blame them for being horrible.
He was also a bad teammate and did the exact same things in Houston which is why I don't care and it is why I put him on that list. Houston actually did have a talent for McGrady but McGrady was still this lazy immature dick head.

[AK47DR91]

You can't leave out Shaq and Kobe.

Shaq threw Kobe under the bus in the three-peat era.
Kobe has thrown Pau under the bus this past season.

Both of them were at each others throat when they were teammates.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

He was also a bad teammate and did the exact same things in Houston which is why I don't care and it is why I put him on that list. Houston actually did have a talent for McGrady but McGrady was still this lazy immature dick head.

Mac gave it his all during games. His practice habbits and conditioning left some to be desired but he gave everything he had while he was out there.

[StateOfMind12]

Mac gave it his all during games. His practice habbits and conditioning left some to be desired but he gave everything he had while he was out there.
I agree bro....

This game surely shows how much effort Tmac gave and it was a whole lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjbkXewxlGI

:rolleyes: :facepalm


Also if his practice habits/conditioning were left to be desired then he clearly didn't give it his all. I'm glad you can accept the fact that Tmac was a crappy teammate in Houston though. It's too bad for whatever reason you thought he gave it his all.

[no pun intended]

Classy McGrady.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzK-YbJWb_c&feature=player_embedded

Here's the boxscore to that game too for the lols.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201102250PHI.html

[magnax1]

I really doubt TMac's practice habits were bad at all. You're not as skilled as he was, meaning one of the most skillled perimeter scorers of the last decade, without practicing a huge amount. There is nothing about his conditioning that I know of that was bad either. In fact, his problem was that he constantly came back from injuries to early and that was a huge part of his prime being cut so short.
As for the locker room stuff, I just don't think it's worth talking about for a couple reasons. The first being no one knows what's happening anyway, and the people that get pointed out as good in the locker room by fans are always winners, whether it's reported that they were universally hated ass holes (like Jordan) or not. Secondly, the impact that this sort of stuff has on the game is extremely minimal anyway.

[TheBigVeto]

Kobe. The GOAT king of throwing teammates under the bus.

[StateOfMind12]

I really doubt TMac's practice habits were bad at all..
I'm sure his former coach had no idea what was going on.



Best-selling author and noted hairsman Malcolm Gladwell introduced the concept while moderating the opening session of this year's Sloan conference. The talk dealt with how the "10,000 hour rule" that Gladwell discussed in his 2008 book "Outliers" — that the key to success in any field is the purposeful practice of a specific task for 10,000 hours — relates to an athlete's development.

But while McGrady's abilities were awe-inspiring, his willingness to further cultivate them wasn't, according to panelist and ESPN NBA analyst Jeff Van Gundy, who coached the Florida-born star with the Houston Rockets from 2004 through 2007.

Van Gundy estimated McGrady at "probably 1,000 hours of practice," just one-tenth of Gladwell's rule, a figure that elicited laughter from the crowd.

McGrady admitted his lack of practice habits as well.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/tracy-mcgrady-i-just-wasnt-a-great-practice-player?urn=nba,wp220



Tracy McGrady: ‘I just wasn’t a great practice player’

"I really don't see how, maybe I'm wrong on this. I don't just see how going hard in practice is going to take my talent to another level. I just don't see that… As far as the team jelling and practicing like that, yeah that's how you make your team better. I'm saying me personally, I just didn't see how me practicing hard was going to take my talent to another level. I always felt like working on my individual skills was taking my talent to another level… Now when I say I wasn't a great practice player, it's not like I sat out of practice. I was participating. I always participated."

[WeGetRing2012]

You can't leave out Shaq and Kobe.

Shaq threw Kobe under the bus in the three-peat era.
Kobe has thrown Pau under the bus this past season.

Both of them were at each others throat when they were teammates.

Kobe has been nothing but supportive towards Pau. He even criticized the FO for putting him through all the trade rumors and always praises him. All he said was "Pau has to be more aggressive" and you guys ran with it...

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe and Shaq are both known for throwing teammates under the bus. After reading the Jordan Rules, I would say Jordan was a pretty shitty teammate.

[magnax1]

I'm sure his former coach had no idea what was going on.



McGrady admitted his lack of practice habits as well.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/tracy-mcgrady-i-just-wasnt-a-great-practice-player?urn=nba,wp220
A team practice is one thing, but he even said it in the quote you posted
"I always felt like working on my individual skills was taking my talent to another level" It's very clear that the guy worked his ass off to get to where he was. You'd have to never have played much basketball to think he didn't put in a ton of time getting his game to a top level.

[StateOfMind12]

Secondly, the impact that this sort of stuff has on the game is extremely minimal anyway.
Have you ever played an organized sport in high school or at any time in your life? I'm assuming you haven't because if you did you actually would understand the impact it can have.

I'm sorry but for me I personally have a hard time following a leader that doesn't practice hard to set an example, doesn't play hard, and is a complete dick. When I play with players who are like that, I couldn't careless whether or not my team wins anymore because I know that my douchebag teammate won't win either.

Maybe some players are different but I'm more than positive that players who have played the sport understand how much different it is to play with a talented player who is a good teammate and a talented player who is a dickhead.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Have you ever played an organized sport in high school or at any time in your life? I'm assuming you haven't because if you did you actually would understand the impact it can have.

I'm sorry but for me I personally have a hard time following a leader that doesn't practice hard to set an example, doesn't play hard, and is a complete dick. When I play with players who are like that, I couldn't careless whether or not my team wins anymore because I know that my douchebag teammate won't win either.

Maybe some players are different but I'm more than positive that players who have played the sport understand how much different it is to play with a talented player who is a good teammate and a talented player who is a dickhead.
This. You can't respect guys like Tmac. He just wasn't a winner. Great player, but he was a dogshit leader. How can you respect someone that has a shitty work ethic? His legacy will be that of a loser

[livingby3's]

Dennis Rodman?

[magnax1]

Have you ever played an organized sport in high school or at any time in your life? I'm assuming you haven't because if you did you actually would understand the impact it can have.
I have, and as I said it's minimal. There have been tons of teams where everyone hated eachother and won championships. The early 90's Bulls, the 80's Celtics. What matters is that you have guys who want to win, and one person doesn't change that at all, and what you do outside of the games isn't much of an indication of how hard you fight to win a game anyway. I think this sort of stuff is another example in a list of thousands of people over valuing the individual in the team sport of basketball.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Dennis Rodman?
He wasn't popular in the San Antonio lockerroom

[StateOfMind12]

There have been tons of teams where everyone hated eachother and won championships. The early 90's Bulls, the 80's Celtics.
The two examples you gave are two of the most stacked teams ever especially in their era.



What matters is that you have guys who want to win, and one person doesn't change that at all,
When you are the star/best player/leader? It clearly does.

Great players maximize their teammates potential, McGrady never did that, he actually did the complete opposite. He pretty much destroyed all of his teammates confidence by throwing them all under the bus and then nobody was probably following him because he never set an example and was a poor overall leader.

[magnax1]

The two examples you gave are two of the most stacked teams ever especially in their era.
Really? I never thought of the early 90's Bulls as stacked at all. In fact, I've always thought of them as a team that Jordan carried over far more talented teams from 2-12, like the 93 Suns, 92 Blazers, 92 and 93 Knicks.


When you are the star/best player/leader? It clearly does.
Once again, what about those Bulls? The vast majority of players outright hated Jordan. Jordan hated Cartwright so much because he was traded for his best friend (Oakley) that he constantly harassed him, even to the point of tears. Horace and Jordan never got along, Pippen was asking for trades, even after winning a championship, and he was the one who was really the leader of that team. There was all sorts of stuff that doesn't exactly reek of great chemistry and leadership on those teams.


Great players maximize their teammates potential, McGrady never did that, he actually did the complete opposite. He pretty much destroyed all of his teammates confidence by throwing them all under the bus and then nobody was probably following him because he never set an example and was a poor overall leader.
I don't know how he didn't maximize his talent. He never had much in the first place, but he played well in 01 and 02 in the regular season and playoffs, he took the ECF Pistons to 7 in 03 with one of the worst teams ever surrounding a top 5 player, he completely dominated the Mavs in 05, but still lost in 7 because he once again had a shit team. I don't know what more you could ask of him out of his prime with the teams he had.

[StateOfMind12]

I don't know how he didn't maximize his talent. He never had much in the first place, but he played well in 01 and 02 in the regular season and playoffs, he took the ECF Pistons to 7 in 03 with one of the worst teams ever surrounding a top 5 player, he completely dominated the Mavs in 05, but still lost in 7 because he once again had a shit team. I don't know what more you could ask of him out of his prime with the teams he had.
I think he did all he could in Orlando but he could have done much more in Houston but I suppose you could argue that he was just out of his prime by the time he got to Houston or after his 1st year there.

Tmac definitely underachieved in Houston individually and we all know he was always a bad teammate. He should have gotten past the 1st round in 2007 against Utah but he folded and it was the only time he was the favorite, yet he had the complete worst playoff series of his career. He couldn't handle the pressure of being the favorite.

I thought MJ was a great leader though, he was just a jerk. There is a difference between him and McGrady and that is that McGrady was a bad leader and a jerk.

[LikeABosh]

Kome running possibly the most dominate center ever out of LA, throwing teammates under the bus and raping a woman. :lol

[magnax1]

Tmac definitely underachieved in Houston individually and we all know he was always a bad teammate. He should have gotten past the 1st round in 2007 against Utah but he folded and it was the only time he was the favorite, yet he had the complete worst playoff series of his career. He couldn't handle the pressure of being the favorite.
I don't know if they should have won that series for certain. They certainly had lots of problems keeping up with Utah's great offense, but they were also a much better defensive team then Utah. I don't think McGrady's series was really that awful in 07 either. He put up quite a few shots because Houston's offense was pretty stagnant and really not that good excluding Yao and Tmac, but he wasn't capable of really carrying that load like he could at one point. Yao played pretty poorly that year too. Okur played good post D on him, but Yao should've been going off against what was overall a pretty damn weak front line defensively. He ended up shooting in the low 40's shooting wise in that series.


I thought MJ was a great leader though, he was just a jerk. There is a difference between him and McGrady and that is that McGrady was a bad leader and a jerk.
Well once again, I don't think you can say any of that with certainty. Even the stuff I posted about Jordan being an ass hole I'm not really willing to hold against him. It's all he said she said bullshit. You're never going to get an accurate picture of what kind of leader, or any other thing a player is by reading stuff from the media.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Calling Jordan - one of the greatest leaders ever - a bad locker room player is hysterically biased.

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

You can't leave out Shaq and Kobe.

Shaq threw Kobe under the bus in the three-peat era.
Kobe has thrown Pau under the bus this past season.

Both of them were at each others throat when they were teammates.
Not just Kobe. Shaq kicked Eddie Jones off the team twice with the Lakers and the Heat. He hates Eddie. He also kicked out Nick Van Exel. He hated Penny Hardaway and former head coach, Brian Hill.

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

Calling Jordan - one of the greatest leaders ever - a bad locker room player is hysterically biased.
If all of Mike's teammates liked Scottie more than him, then the people who criticize Mike has a point.

[HardwoodLegend]

T-Mac was a dazzlingly gifted talent. So full of effortless finesse. It's like he rolled out of bed with all those skills. I doubt he worked all THAT hard to acquire them.

He reminds me of that character Shep played by Leon in 'Above the Rim'.

http://i47.tinypic.com/35k4air.jpg

[KyrieTheFuture]

How Has No One Said Dwight?

[TheBigVeto]

Once again, what about those Bulls? The vast majority of players outright hated Jordan. Jordan hated Cartwright so much because he was traded for his best friend (Oakley) that he constantly harassed him, even to the point of tears.


When was that? What I heard is Jordan tried to talk smack to Cartwright and Cartwright threatened to break his legs and Jordan chickened out.

[PistolPete44]

In one of his first practices with the Bulls, Parish botched one of the plays and was amused to find Jordan jawing at him just inches from his face.

“I told him, ‘I’m not as enamored with you as these other guys. I’ve got some rings too,’ ” Parish recalled. “At that point he told me, ‘I’m going to kick your ass.’ I took one step closer and said, ‘No, you really aren’t.’ After that he didn’t bother me.”

lol

[Xiao Yao You]

No mention of Karl Malone. He threw teammates under the bus for his own failures. Almost immediately after signing a new contract he'd want more money. Hit on Kobe's wife!

[SilkkTheShocker]

[QUOTE=PistolPete44]In one of his first practices with the Bulls, Parish botched one of the plays and was amused to find Jordan jawing at him just inches from his face.

[OldSchoolBBall]

If all of Mike's teammates liked Scottie more than him, then the people who criticize Mike has a point.

Being less well-liked than a teammate doesn't make you a bad locker room player, or a bad leader. Two different things.

[TheBigVeto]

[QUOTE=PistolPete44]In one of his first practices with the Bulls, Parish botched one of the plays and was amused to find Jordan jawing at him just inches from his face.