Why does Melo get blamed when his teamates start playing worse but Lebron doesn't

[Ikill]

There have been plenty of players that been worse playing with Lebron but its always their fault. With Melo its always his fault he gets blamed for ending Lin and Amares shitty play this year. On the other hand Lebron doesn't get blamed for Wades and Boshs decline. When did Melo ever make player worse when he was on the Nuggets Iverson had his most efficient seasons with the Nuggets and so did a lot of other players.

[ukballer]

:oldlol:

[KingBeasley08]

Melos gotten outta the 1st rd once

[LBJDW305]

There have been plenty of players that been worse playing with Lebron but its always their fault. With Melo its always his fault he gets blamed for ending Lin and Amares shitty play this year. On the other hand Lebron doesn't get blamed for Wades and Boshs decline. When did Melo ever make player worse when he was on the Nuggets Iverson had his most efficient seasons with the Nuggets and so did a lot of other players.

You must be new to the Internet and tv...

[AK47DR91]

Because even when LeBron's teammates play poorly, they usually get a W at the end of the game. Whereas Melo's team leaves with a loss.

[Kblaze8855]

Lot less blame to dole out when you have made 3 finals, won 3, MVPs, led shitty to average teams to 60+ wins multiple times, and won a ring and finals MVP.

A teammate shooting worse than usual while you win 66 games or drop 45/15 to stave off elimination or lead your team to a ring is irrelevant.

Long story short...Lebron gets results. Melo doesnt.

Melo has been on at least 4-5 teams more talented than those Lebron led to contender status.

It factors in.

[RRR3]

Quoting myself from another thread...

Quote:
I really shouldn't even respond to such bullshit, but I suppose I have to if no one else is going to.

*Ricky Davis played a grand total of 22 games with rookie LeBron. Wow, clearly showed a lot

*Carlos Boozer played one year with LeBron. It was his sophomore season and LeBron's rookie season. Boozer's stats went up across the board from his rookie season (10/8/1) to his lone season with LBJ (16/11/2). He went on to enjoy success with Deron Williams (an elite PG) in Utah, but has had much less success in Chicago.

*Drew Gooden played with LeBron before 2008, but OP conveniently left that out because it did not fit his agenda. Gooden played 3 and a half seasons with LBJ, starting in 2004-05. His very first year with LBJ he averaged CAREER HIGHS in points, rebounds, steals and blocks. He has never surpassed those numbers to this day. Fascinating little bit of information OP no doubt was all too happy to ignore. Furthermore, Drew Gooden shot 48.3% from the field as LeBron's teammate. Without LeBron, he has shot just 45.4% from the field.

*Larry Hughes' numbers are taken completely out of context, as the OP is quite fond of doing, it seems. Hughes had a much larger role in his tenure with Washington than he did in Cleveland, as LeBron, not Hughes, was the man obviously. Outside of his career year in 2004-05, Hughes had no seasons that differed much from his production while with LeBron James. In fact, his numbers decreased in many areas after leaving Cleveland.

*In Delonte West's case, the OP again purposefully avoids his entire time with LeBron in order to further his agenda. West played almost two and a half seasons with LeBron James, and the only season the OP notes is one in which West was a bench player, which explains his reduced numbers. In 2009, West posted the 3rd highest scoring season of his career to date with LeBron, and notched a career high in 3PT percentage. In 2008, West spent the season with the Sonics and was traded to the Cavs later in the year, where he played 26 games. With LBJ, West's FG% went from a measly 38.8% on the Sonics to a decent 44.0%. His scoring also increased from 6.8 PPG to 10.3 PPG.

*In the case of Varejao, his numbers, apart from rebounding in 2012, have not changed much without LeBron, although his field goal percentage dipped a bit from his last two years with LBJ. On a per minute basis, his stats are virtually the same, however, and it should be noted that he has played on a very poor team the past few years and has thus had a larger role. He has also been plagued by injuries the past few years, so his numbers are not those of a full season, and combined they amount to just 56 total games. It should also be noted that Varejao did not play 20+ minutes until his 3rd year in Cleveland, and his statistics are affected by this.

*The idiotic inclusion of Szczerbiak by the OP is barely worth responding to. Szczerbiak played for a bit less than 1 and 1/2 seasons with LBJ, and was in a reduced role than his previous seasons. Szczerbiak's time with LeBron were, in fact, the last season and a half of his career, which would indicate he was on his "last legs", so to speak.

*Jamison's numbers are also taken out of context. In 2009-10, Jamison went from being the number one or two option (depending on Gilbert Arenas's health) on the Wizards to the 3rd option on the Cavaliers. His numbers for the Wizards were 21 and 9 in 39 minutes a game. For the Cavs, he put up 16 and 8, but in just 32 minutes a game. Jamison's numbers could have been higher on the Cavs if he hadn't inexplicably gone from a 70% FT shooter to a 50% shooter while with LBJ that year. Jamison's FG% actually went from 45% with the Wizards to 49% with LeBron. The past two seasons without LeBron, Jamison's FG% has plummetted to 43% and 40%, respectively. Like Varejao, he plays on a poor team and has a much larger role and more opportunities to throw up shots. LeBron did not negatively impact Jamison's numbers, unless you want to blame him for Jamison losing his FT shooting ability.

*As for Shaq, the OP again displays his agenda clearly. O'Neal played just 23 minuets a game for the Cavaliers, but if one looks at his numbers on a per minute basis, he averaged the EXACT same amount of shot attempts per 36 minutes as he did the previous season in Cleveland. Furthermore, per 36 minutes, Shaq's numbers with LeBron were 19/10/2, numbers quite comparable to his per 36 minute averages of 2007-08 and 2008-09.

*As for Dwyane Wade, it is insane of the OP to think that both LEBRON AND WADE'S numbers would not be affected by playing with each other, as they are similar players whose styles overlap in many ways. Wade was hurt much of this past season and saw his minutes decrease, but he still averaged 24 PPG per 36 this past season. The two highest FG% seasons of Wade's career are both when he played with LeBron James.

*As for Chris Bosh? LeBron does not negatively impact him, the reason Bosh's numbers are down is because he is the 3rd option on Miami, while he was the first in Toronto. NEVERTHELESS, in the games Wade was absent this year, Bosh (as LeBron's second option) averaged nearly 25 PPG! LeBron is quite capable of playing well with Bosh. As for Chalmers, he had the best season of his career to date with LeBron, has been even better in the playoffs, and while Wade was out and LeBron was still there, Chalmers averaged nearly 14 PPG! LeBron alone, in a small sample size, actually IMPROVED the numbers of Bosh and Chalmers.




I hope at least some people will read this and realize the OP has twisted statistics to fit his agenda and try to change the reality of what really happened.

Quote:
Another player LeBron played with who the OP did not mention is Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Big Z, who was an All-Star with and without LeBron, was a good player regardless, I admit. However, of Big Z's 5 best scoring seasons, 3 came with LeBron James. 6 of Big Z's 8 best rebounding totals per minute came with LeBron as his teammate.


Lastly, as to Mike Miller-his role is greatly reduced on the Heat (as anyone who has watched them would know and would understand), and he has been injury prone, as he has most of his career. He is still a solid player, however, although his numbers may not regard it. As for Battier, if anyone has watched the Heat a lot this year (and I have watched literally at least 90-95% of Heat games this season) they would be insane to Blame LeBron for the COUNTLESS open threes Battier has missed after LeBron created a good shot for him.

[SilkkTheShocker]

When did Bosh did decline? Wade may be declining, but he was injured all last season. I have never seen anyone thrive playing with Melo. Unless they are padding their offensive rebound stats

[DaSeba5]

Lot less blame to dole out when you have made 3 finals, won 3, MVPs, led shitty to average teams to 60+ wins multiple times, and won a ring and finals MVP.

A teammate shooting worse than usual while you win 66 games or drop 45/15 to stave off elimination or lead your team to a ring is irrelevant.

Long story short...Lebron gets results. Melo doesnt.

Melo has been on at least 4-5 teams more talented than those Lebron led to contender status.

It factors in.

This. LeBron gets results, and Melo doesn't.

[AK47DR91]

This. LeBron gets results, and Melo doesn't.
Same can be said about Melo and Lin.

One leads his team to 8-15. The other leads a group of scrubs to 8-2. :pimp:

[inclinerator]

because he's fat

[DaSeba5]

Same can be said about Melo and Lin.

One leads his team to 8-15. The other leads a group of scrubs to 8-2. :pimp:

Basically :pimp:

[NumberSix]

What world is OP living in?

LeBron can average a triple double for a series and still get blamed if they lose.

LeBron is an all time great player. Melo is arguably just marginally better than Joe Johnson. We're talking about completely different levels of players here.

[nightprowler10]

Maybe because LeBron isn't a blackhole on offense.

[Mr Exlax]

OP must've have NEVER watched a game that LBJ was playing in. That's the only logical explanation.

[Sarcastic]

When did Bosh did decline? Wade may be declining, but he was injured all last season. I have never seen anyone thrive playing with Melo. Unless they are padding their offensive rebound stats

You obviously watch with your eyes closed then.

http://www.538host.com/carmelo.png

[Ikill]

a lot of irrelevant posts here that have nothing to do with what im talking about
Wade plays worse because of injuries/decline/himself
Amare plays worse because of Melo being a ball hog even tho Amare is injured too

[Ikill]

Maybe because LeBron isn't a blackhole on offense.
He is a blackhole he's the most ball dominant player in the NBA only players with limited skillsets play well with him like spot up shooters. It doesn't really matter tho because he is so good.

[Sarcastic]

He is a blackhole he's the most ball dominant player in the NBA only players with limited skillsets play well with him like spot up shooters. It doesn't really matter tho because he is so good.

Allen Iverson had his most efficient season ever with him, and he's not a spot up shooter.

[Ikill]

Allen Iverson had his most efficient season ever with him, and he's not a spot up shooter.
lol Lebron fool im on the one defending Melo

[Sarcastic]

lol Lebron fool im on the one defending Melo

My bad. I don't think either one is a black hole though.

An example of a black hole to me is a post player that won't give up the ball despite seeing double teams all the time.


Melo tried to pass the ball last year, but his shooters (Landry Fields in particular) were awful.

[Ikill]

hey dickriders this is not about Lebron its about
1. a double standard
2. the myth that Melo makes his teammates worse

the only players that got worse playing with Melo were Amare and Lin you cant really blame that on Melo

[Ikill]

When did Bosh did decline? Wade may be declining, but he was injured all last season. I have never seen anyone thrive playing with Melo. Unless they are padding their offensive rebound stats
Boshs ts
2010-59%
2011-57%
2012-55%

[LBJDW305]

melo has been out of the second round one time in his career...lebron has a ring and finals MVP plus 3 MVP awards. Really hard to compare these players are on different levels

[StateOfMind12]

I would suspect that it has to do with the fact that LeBron is one of the best and most willing passers in the league. I would also suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that he draws more attention, draws more doubles/triples, which lead to open shooters which lead to easy shots.

[pegasus]

Because Lebron always passes the ball to his teammates whenthereisoneortwosecondsleftontheshotclock. That's a true teammate.:applause:

[pauk]

Because Melo:

Is not efficient
Does not have the work ethic / drive
Does not have the IQ / leadership
Can NOT take advantage of his teammates around him
Can NOT make his teammates better
Can NOT do whatever it takes to win...
Can NOT get in the post and ragdoll people and command double-triple teams (and once again create open baskets for his teammates from there)
Can NOT defend
Can NOT play PG-SG-SF-PF-C
Can NOT defend PG-SG-SF-PF-C

can only... chuck shots.... and pray to god those shots occasionally go in...

[boozehound]

There have been plenty of players that been worse playing with Lebron but its always their fault. With Melo its always his fault he gets blamed for ending Lin and Amares shitty play this year. On the other hand Lebron doesn't get blamed for Wades and Boshs decline. When did Melo ever make player worse when he was on the Nuggets Iverson had his most efficient seasons with the Nuggets and so did a lot of other players.
because lebrons teams win? He has been in the conference finals for nearly every year of his career. Melo has never come close.

[Sarcastic]

If Lebron started his career in the West, he'd have a lot more first round losses.

[pegasus]

because lebrons teams win? He has been in the conference finals for nearly every year of his career. Melo has never come close.

http://paul4innovating.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/east-vs-west-picture.png

http://www.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/east-vs-west.jpg

[Ikill]

melo has been out of the second round one time in his career...lebron has a ring and finals MVP plus 3 MVP awards. Really hard to compare these players are on different levels
im not really comparing them tho im saying if someone starts playing worse alongside Lebron its because they worse (Wade, Bosh) if someone starts playing worse alongside Melo its his fault ( Amare, Lin)

[Rowe]

If Lebron started his career in the West, he'd have a lot more first round losses.
Exactly.

He would have missed the Playoffs for 1/2 of his career with that Cleveland squad in the Western Conference.

The West was loaded at one point for a 3-4 year stretch.

I've never understood why Melo takes the "blame" for Nuggets teams that nobody at the time ever considered to be a Title Contender. Kenyon Martin & Nene were never healthy at the same time, & they dumped their DPOY in Marcus Camby for nothing. If people actually believed Melo & the Nuggets were a threat in the West, there would be far more disappointment when they lost in the 1st Round a la Dirk in 07.

While, nobody will ever be honest.

How come none of the blame falls on George Karl? Is he still living off of the glory days most of the members here remember as little kids with the Seattle Sonics? :confusedshrug:

[Ikill]

pretty every single post in here has nothing to do with what im talking about

[Ikill]

I would suspect that it has to do with the fact that LeBron is one of the best and most willing passers in the league. I would also suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that he draws more attention, draws more doubles/triples, which lead to open shooters which lead to easy shots.
Melo draws a lot of attention himself probably more than Lebron because he plays on a worse team. Look at the chart Sarcastic posted pretty much every player that played with Melo on the Nuggets got better. On the Knicks Amare got worse but that was because he broke down Lin got worse because teams started to figure out how to play him.

[Ikill]

Do people really think Lebrons ball dominance didnt hurt Wade and Boshs game

[Rowe]

I would suspect that it has to do with the fact that LeBron is one of the best and most willing passers in the league. I would also suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that he draws more attention, draws more doubles/triples, which lead to open shooters which lead to easy shots.

The difference is that LeBron has to draw more attention because he's the primary ballhandler for any team that he's on. He's the guy essentially running the offense and in the position to find open shooters. When he plays off the ball at times like he did in the Playoffs, I didn't see him post up and kick it out to an open shooter a lot. Any time he can get an isolation near the low block, he's mostly going to score or draw a foul.

Melo on the other hand, his game revoles entirely on playing off the ball, establishing his position & getting an isolation on the elbow. But the fact he has to isolate by then swinging his non-pivot to face up once he gets the ball is where he gets tagged as being a "ball stopper". There is no stopping him when he does this as proven when Miami tried to have LeBron "outmuscle" him or Battier "front" him to stop the entry pass. This is why Melo has become one of the most unique/debatable players in the league because he puts defenses in the position to which they can't provide any real double team or trap defense. He's like a Power Forward establishing themselves in the paint, except he does it from 10-20 feet from the basket.

Everybody criticizes Melo's inability to benefit his teammates and I agree. It all comes down to him improving overall as a facilitator, not all game, but being able to attract a help defender when he drives to the basket and find the open man. This makes him the ultimate threat when you're not sure if he's going to score or find a teammate a la LeBron. As I said above, while LeBron didn't kick the ball out to teammates when he posted up, teams still were considering the threat of him doing it.

I think you're going to see far more improvement with that this season. We're clearly going to an iso heavy offense which suits Melo perfectly, the offense will go through him, but we now have better shooters to space the floor in Smith, Kidd, & Felton along with the best spot shooter in the league in Steve Novak.

[Bigsmoke]

Marcus Camby
Kmart
LeBron
A.I.
Carter

you dont think this team wouldnt have won more than 50 games? :wtf:

[RaininTwos]

Marcus Camby
Kmart
LeBron
A.I.
Carter

you dont think this team wouldnt have won more than 50 games? :wtf:

championship

[Legends66NBA7]

championship

Bro, make your picks in the OTC thread.

[jbot]

well, lebron is more of a team player. he actually passes and can make plays for himself AND others. the ball movement pretty much stops when it gets to melo.

[Rowe]

Melo draws a lot of attention himself probably more than Lebron because he plays on a worse team. Look at the chart Sarcastic posted pretty much every player that played with Melo on the Nuggets got better. On the Knicks Amare got worse but that was because he broke down Lin got worse because teams started to figure out how to play him.

Amare has got worse on the Knicks playing with Melo because he has established terrible bad habits due to playing in D'Antoni's system. He has gone on the record that he has never had a coach in the NBA tell him to post-up, contest shots on defense, or rebound.....until Mike Woodson.

Amare isn't breaking down as much as its being realized how reliant he has been on being fed off the Pick & Roll. 2/3 of the shots he made last season were dunks or layups and that simply is not good enough anymore for a player going on 30 years old in his 11th season.

[Ikill]

Marcus Camby
Kmart
LeBron
A.I.
Carter

you dont think this team wouldnt have won more than 50 games? :wtf:
well AI wouldn't be as good with Lebron but yeah the obviously would win 50 games. The Nuggets did 50 games with Melo in 08 Lebrons a better player so yeah they win more probably. But what does that have to do with anything?

[Ikill]

well, lebron is more of a team player. he actually passes and can make plays for himself AND others. the ball movement pretty much stops when it gets to melo.
even though there have been multiple players that have been gotten worse playing with Lebron and pretty every player that has played with Melo has gotten better. Look at Sarcastics chart

[Rowe]

Marcus Camby
Kmart
LeBron
A.I.
Carter

you dont think this team wouldnt have won more than 50 games? :wtf:
Kenyon Martin post-knee surgeries? He didn't start showing any glimpses of the old Kenyon Martin until the 2010 season.

Anthony Carter as your starting PG? You want that?

Would Allen Iverson adjust to being a non-ball dominant player and having to play off the ball, even as a spot shooter at times?

Would've won about as many games give or take 5 and still not won a Championship.

[Scoooter]

Carmelo Anthony is literally the perfect basketball player. The only reason he hasn't won every championship since he's been in the league is because he really likes to spend his summer vacations feeding the hungry and healing the sick.

[Ikill]

Carmelo Anthony is literally the perfect basketball player. The only reason he hasn't won every championship since he's been in the league is because he really likes to spend his summer vacations feeding the hungry and healing the sick.
stfu ****ing clown

[Scoooter]

stfu ****ing clown
Whoah!





























Language.

[Ikill]

these dickriders/Melo haters have nothing to say since ive pretty shut down the myth that Melo is a blackhole that makes his teamates worse

[WockaVodka]

If I recall correctly, the Knicks got much worse when Melo came back last season during the Linsanity run. I don't think Melo makes his teammates worse but he surely does not make them better.

[Ikill]

Lebron takes more shot attempts averages more assists and more turnovers that means he handles the ball even more than Melo.

[WockaVodka]

Lebron takes more shot attempts averages more assists and more turnovers that means he handles the ball even more than Melo.
Lebron plays point forward and is capable of doing so. Melo doesn't and is not capable of doing so.

[Ikill]

OP=:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
stfu your always crying about how Lebron gets to much hate

[Ikill]

If I recall correctly, the Knicks got much worse when Melo came back last season during the Linsanity run. I don't think Melo makes his teammates worse but he surely does not make them better.
http://www.538host.com/carmelo.png

[AK47DR91]

If I recall correctly, the Knicks got much worse when Melo came back last season during the Linsanity run. I don't think Melo makes his teammates worse but he surely does not make them better.
The Knicks are 43-39 with Carmelo in the regular season since acquiring him before the 2010-11 trade deadline.

1-8 in the playoffs.

44-47 overall(both regular season and playoffs)

So basically, the Knicks are a subpar .500 team with Melo.

Denver Nuggets is still winning that trade, by a long mile.

[Ikill]

Lebron plays point forward and is capable of doing so. Melo doesn't and is not capable of doing so.
The only players that play good alongside Lebrons point forward play are spot up shooters or other players with limited skillsets. More players have improved playing with Melo than they have with Lebron. Since Lebron came to Miami Wade and Bosh have both struggled to find rhythm every game because Lebron wont let them handle the god damn ball.
Boshs ts%
2010- 59%
2011- 57%
2012- 59%

Yeah you can they both just declined or got injured but than again you can say the same thing with Amare. The Knicks started to play better teams when Melo came. How did Melo make Lin worse when Andre Miller, Iverson, and Billups played better with Melo?

[Kurosawa0]

Listen, Melo made his move to New York just like LeBron made his move to Miami. LeBron has made the Finals twice, won a ring and an MVP award in that time span. Melo's led his team to a 1-8 playoff record and a barely made it to being a .500 team.

Come on...

[LikeABosh]

Well maybe it's because Lebron made it work and won the finals. Hmmm, just a thought.

[el gringos]

Lebron plays point forward and is capable of doing so. Melo doesn't and is not capable of doing so.
Carmelo plays a very unique power 3. Lebron doesn't and is not capable of doing so.

Glad you mentioned how they are different players even if they gaurd/play the same position. You want Carmelo playing in the post as often as possible and you want Lebron handling the ball from the perimeter as much as possible.

[Sarcastic]

If I recall correctly, the Knicks got much worse when Melo came back last season during the Linsanity run. I don't think Melo makes his teammates worse but he surely does not make them better.


Knicks under D'Antoni: 18-24
Knicks under Woodson: 18-6


If the Knicks start 18-24 this coming year under Woodson, then bring all the criticism you want to Melo and the Knicks.

If they have a good year, then swallow your tongue.

[Sarcastic]

Well maybe it's because Lebron made it work and won the finals. Hmmm, just a thought.

It took him 2 years, while playing with 2 top 10 players.

Carmelo has never played with a top 10 player. EVER!!!

[WockaVodka]

It took him 2 years, while playing with 2 top 10 players.

Carmelo has never played with a top 10 player. EVER!!!
Bosh was never a top 10 player. Wade was a top 10 player at best last season with his post-season performance. Wade and Bosh were nothing but big names last season in the post-season because everyone knows LeBron did a lot of heavy lifting for that team.

[WockaVodka]

Knicks under D'Antoni: 18-24
Knicks under Woodson: 18-6


If the Knicks start 18-24 this coming year under Woodson, then bring all the criticism you want to Melo and the Knicks.

If they have a good year, then swallow your tongue.
Lin was a big part of those wins with Woodson though. He is no longer there so good luck with that. Knicks will be a low seed in the playoffs against next season.

[ihoopallday]

Who'd you rather build a team around OP? LeBron or Melo?