Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant - Year by Year since 1998

[Duncan21formvp]

When you compare 2 of the best of the 2000's year by year for there career starting from the time when both were in the league (1998), who would say was the better player in each season?

1998 -
1999 -
2000 -
2001 -
2002 -
2003 -
2004 -
2005 -
2006 -
2007 -
2008 -
2009 -
2010 -
2011 -
2012 -

[BlackVVaves]

When you compare 2 of the best of the 2000's year by year for there career starting from the time when both were in the league (1998), who would say was the better player in each season?

1998 -
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

Without looking at statistics and going off of pure memory of each season.

[Punpun]

From 98 to 00, advantage to Duncan. And that's pretty arguable for 00. Since then, Kobe has dominated.

[BlackVVaves]

From 98 to 00, advantage to Duncan. And that's pretty arguable for 00. Since then, Kobe has dominated.

Good job being a homer. Duncan took a black and silver dump on the entire league in 2003.

[The Choken One]

I agree with the Waves for the most...besides maybe giving Kobe the edge in 2007. I know the Spurs won the finals...but still. Kobe was playing a tan incredible level at that time...

[NumberSix]

When you compare 2 of the best of the 2000's year by year for there career starting from the time when both were in the league (1998), who would say was the better player in each season?

1998 -
1999 -
2000 -
2001 -
2002 -
2003 -
2004 -
2005 -
2006 -
2007 -
2008 -
2009 -
2010 -
2011 -
2012 -
1998-2005: Tim Duncan

from then on, Kobe.

[magnax1]

98-05 Duncan clearly
06-present Kobe clearly
Really not a hard comparison. Their best seasons don't coincide at all.

[Punpun]

Good job being a homer. Duncan took a black and silver dump on the entire league in 2003.

Who cares ? This is a troll thread. Might as well roll with it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Kobe
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe


Who cares ? This is a troll thread. Might as well roll with it.

It's not a troll thread at all, you're just a homer.

[kennethgriffin]

When you compare 2 of the best of the 2000's year by year for there career starting from the time when both were in the league (1998), who would say was the better player in each season?

1998 - duncan
1999 - duncan
2000 - duncan
2001 - kobe
2002 - duncan
2003 - kobe
2004 - duncan
2005 - duncan
2006 - kobe
2007 - kobe
2008 - kobe
2009 - kobe
2010 - kobe
2011 - kobe
2012 - kobe




not even close really

[kennethgriffin]

1998-2005: Tim Duncan

from then on, Kobe.

2001 kobe ( 28/6/5 season, 30/7/6 playoffs, nba champion, espn mag called him Best in the world, shaq called him the best player period )


2003 is tough... pretty close... but i give the edge to kobe cause of averaging 40ppg for 2 entire months, 9 straight 40ppg, 12 threes in a game

[Punpun]

It's not a troll thread at all, you're just a homer.

>Put the two GOAT of this era
>Ask to compare them and say who was better even though they didn't play same position etc.
>Heated arguments ensues
>Not a troll

Sure.

[BlackVVaves]

1998-2005: Tim Duncan

from then on, Kobe.

I think Kobe got the best of Duncan in 2001 and 2002, especially 2001. Kobe completely annihilated the Spurs in that Playoff sweep.

As in, ANNIHILATED. Best player in that series and it wasn't even close, at all.


I agree with the Waves for the most...besides maybe giving Kobe the edge in 2007. I know the Spurs won the finals...but still. Kobe was playing a tan incredible level at that time...

I was really stuck on determining which player was better that year. Kobe definitely had the better numbers and biggest impact on his team that year, but I gave Duncan the nod for adding to his ring collection.

Then again, this is purely a comparison between two players and their individual performances for those years. So, I guess I change my vote to Kobe for 2007.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Ask to compare them and say who was better even though they didn't play

That isn't relevant. Who's better Kwame Brown or Kobe?

Smarten up.


Heated arguments ensue

If you mean debating, yes, that goes on in every thread.

[AK47DR91]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan (MVP)
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Duncan
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan (MVP)
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Duncan
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

:facepalm

by then duncan was the 3rd best player on his team

anyone who has duncan past 2005 is a complete hipster doofus

[SuperPippen]

Fairly easy comparison.

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Bryant
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Bryant
2007 - Bryant
2008 - Bryant
2009 - Bryant
2010 - Bryant
2011 - Bryant
2012 - Bryant

[kennethgriffin]

Fairly easy comparison.

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Bryant
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Bryant
2007 - Bryant
2008 - Bryant
2009 - Bryant
2010 - Bryant
2011 - Bryant
2012 - Bryant


pretty much the same as mine... cept kobe in 2003 had a legendary year. probably could have won mvp if the lakers were a bit deaper

[Round Mound]

Duncan from 97-08

More Dominant Player, More Efficient, Higher PER

Then Kobe for the Follwing Years after Duncan`s Prime

[LamarOdom]

Duncan from 97-08

More Dominant Player, More Efficient, Higher PER

Then Kobe for the Follwing Years after Duncan`s Prime

Kobe has been better than Duncan since 06.




lol Charles Barkley no ring

[DaSeba5]

Fairly easy comparison.

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Bryant
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Bryant
2007 - Bryant
2008 - Bryant
2009 - Bryant
2010 - Bryant
2011 - Bryant
2012 - Bryant

That's basically how I see it as well.

[Round Mound]

Kobe has been better than Duncan since 06.




lol Charles Barkley no ring


:no: Duncan Higher PER Season and Play-Offs till about 2007 and 2008

GTFO With the Barkley No Ring Crap Again...Barkley Played in an Era with Better Teams and Superstars :rolleyes:

[G-Funk]

both amazing players, got nothing bad to say about Duncan

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan from 97-08

More Dominant Player, More Efficient, Higher PER

Then Kobe for the Follwing Years after Duncan`s Prime

roundmound has to be the biggest ******* on ISH

pure troll

" hey... maybe if i go into a thread, and take what the biggest troll is saying. then go a bit farther with it to stand out. maybe i'l get some attention and not feel so pathetic in life for a few minutes every day" - round mound

[kennethgriffin]

:no:


so he has a ring?

the other guy said he has no ring... then you disagreed with him with this -- > :no:

meaning you think barkley has one

where is it?



( waits patiently )

[StateOfMind12]

Fairly easy comparison.

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Bryant
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Bryant
2007 - Bryant
2008 - Bryant
2009 - Bryant
2010 - Bryant
2011 - Bryant
2012 - Bryant
I agree with this for the most part but I am really not so sure about 2001. I think you could very well argue that Duncan was the MVP that season opposed to Iverson and Shaq.

It looks good though and it is the best so far in the thread.

[Gifted Mind]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe


2007 they were neck to neck

[BlackVVaves]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan (MVP)

Don't agree at all. 2001 -> when Kobe raped the Spurs for 4 straight games in the playoffs. You guys really need to go watch that series on Youtube or something since everyone's caught amnesia.



2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Duncan
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

Did you watch the NBA in those years? Granted, I gave Duncan the nod initially myself for 2007 simply because the Spurs won another championship. But really, can you honestly say Duncan was a better individual player than Kobe in these years, 2 of Kobe's best, most monster years? If so, statistics are a must.


Duncan from 97-08
More Dominant Player, More Efficient, Higher PER

Then Kobe for the Follwing Years after Duncan`s Prime

See above.

[Round Mound]

PER is the Absolut Broken Down Stat of Dominance and Efficiency There is a a Reason Why Wilt, Kareem, DR J (ABA era) and MJ Had the Highest During Their Generations. It is Definetly Not a Coincidence. It Tells Us the Truth of What Happened Per Game of Dominance and Efficiency.... NOT WHAT WE OR THE MEDIA PREFERS OR LIKES MORE.

Kobe has been Better than Duncan since around 08-12 basically because Duncan`s Prime Has Been Over Froml About 08 Onwards

Duncan > Bryant.

[Droid101]

Duncan from 97-08

More Dominant Player, More Efficient, Higher PER

Then Kobe for the Follwing Years after Duncan`s Prime
:oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

PER is the Absolut Broken Down Stats of Dominance and Efficiency There is a a Reason Why Wilt, Kareem, DR J (ABA era) and MJ Had the Highest During Their Generations. It is Definetly Not a Coincidence. It Tells Us the Truth of What Happened Per Game of Dominant and Efficiency.

Kobe has been Better than Duncan since around 08-2012 basically because Duncan`s Prime Has Been Over Till About 08.

Duncan > Bryant.


charles barkley is an absolute broken down tub of fat and efficiently ate his way to the point where there was no reason to stay with 1 team, but instead ring chase and fail like he has at everything in his life..

[Round Mound]

charles barkley is an absolute broken down tub of fat and efficiently ate his way to the point where there was no reason to stay with 1 team, but instead ring chase and fail like he has at everything in his life..

What does Barkley have to do with the thread DUMB KID? :confusedshrug:

I Give You Statistical Evidence NOT RAW STATS, LIKES, VOTES, MEDIA etc of Crap....Plain Truth.

Duncan Was A More Dominant and Efficient Player than Kobe. PERIOD!

PD: Barkley was donde 1995 onwards so it was a good move to go to Houston as a "Role Player" The ERA that Barkley Played in Was Dominated by Great Teams Not Individuals

[BlackVVaves]

PER is the Absolut Broken Down Stat of Dominance and Efficiency There is a a Reason Why Wilt, Kareem, DR J (ABA era) and MJ Had the Highest During Their Generations. It is Definetly Not a Coincidence. It Tells Us the Truth of What Happened Per Game of Dominance and Efficiency.... NOT WHAT WE OR THE MEDIA PREFERS OR LIKES MORE.

Kobe has been Better than Duncan since around 08-12 basically because Duncan`s Prime Has Been Over Froml About 08 Onwards

Duncan > Bryant.

Duncan averaged 20, 10, and 3 in 2006 with a PER of 23.

Kobe averaged 35, 5, and 5 in 2006 with a PER of 28.

Duncan averaged 19, 11, and 3 in 2007 with a PER of 26.

Kobe averaged 32, 6, and 5 in 2007 with a PER of 26


Ether. That shit that makes your soul burn.

Now get the **** outta this thread you poser :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

What does Barkley have to do with the thread DUMB KID? :confusedshrug:

I Give You Statistical Evidence NOT RAW STATS, LIKES, VOTES, MEDIA etc of Crap....Plain Truth.

Duncan Was A More Dominant and Efficient Player than Kobe. PERIOD!

PD: Barkley was donde 1995 onwards so it was a good move to go to Houston as a "Role Player" The ERA that Barkley Played in Was Dominated by Great Teams Not Individuals
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/frewfgg-1.png

[che guevara]

'98-'05: Duncan

'06-present: Kobe

Pretty simple, though I could see an argument for Duncan in '07.

[DatAsh]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

That's the correct answer.

[kennethgriffin]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

That's the correct answer.

duncan won the title in 2007.. yea... but common man

tony parker was the clear cut best player on the spurs. duncan started declining after 2005. kobe hit his prime in 2006... theres no comparrison

[WockaVodka]

That's the correct answer.
Even though I agree with your list, comparisons and ranking is purely opinion especially when it is close. No right or wrong answer here.

[Deuce Bigalow]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Kobe
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

Kobe will be better in 2013 and 2014 as well and longer as long as both are in the league.

[WockaVodka]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Kobe
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe
I have a hard time believing anyone could make a reasonable argument that Kobe was better than Duncan in 2002. Duncan was at his absolute peak that season and he was named the MVP that season.

[SuperPippen]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Kobe
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

Kobe will be better in 2013 and 2014 as well and longer as long as both are in the league.

There is absolutely no reason to rank Kobe over Duncan in '02. In '01, you could say Kobe was better, and I would agree with you, but certainly not in '02.

[DatAsh]

Even though I agree with your list, comparisons and ranking is purely opinion especially when it is close. No right or wrong answer here.

I know, I was just trying to add a bit of "punch":cheers:

[Round Mound]

Duncan averaged 20, 10, and 3 in 2006 with a PER of 23.

Kobe averaged 35, 5, and 5 in 2006 with a PER of 28.

Duncan averaged 19, 11, and 3 in 2007 with a PER of 26.

Kobe averaged 32, 6, and 5 in 2007 with a PER of 26


Ether. That shit that makes your soul burn.

Now get the **** outta this thread you poser :oldlol:

Got Look at Play-Off PER :oldlol: :cheers: :rockon: :pimp:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I gave Kobe 2002 because he dominated the Spurs in the 4th Quarter in the Playoffs while Duncan choked

[WockaVodka]

I gave Kobe 2002 because he dominated the Spurs in the 4th Quarter in the Playoffs while Duncan choked
So 1 quarter of a 4-7 game series is why he was better than someone that made much more of an overall impact and made much more of an overall impact in all other 80+ games?

[BlackVVaves]

Got Look at Play-Off PER :oldlol: :cheers: :rockon: :pimp:

Thought I told you to get the **** outta this thread? I know you're retarded, but I didn't take you for a blind man too :oldlol:

Kobe was not just better than Duncan in 06 and 07, he was superior than him. An average of 6 "points" higher PER in the playoffs does not change that, no matter how hard you jerk off to PER stats.

You saying Duncan was better than Kobe in 2006 and 2007 is implying Duncan was the best player in the league in 2006 and 2007 since it's widely known, accepted, and understood that Kobe was from 2006-2008.

So, for the record, you think Duncan was the best player in the NBA in the 2005-2006 season and the 2006-2007 season.

Gotcha.

Like I said, get the **** outta this thread, dumbass.

[DonDadda59]

1998-2005: Tim Duncan

2006-2008: Kobe

2008-Present: Lebron James


FIXED :pimp:

[Bigsmoke]

1998 - Timmy
1999 - Timmy
2000 -Timmy
2001 - Timmy
2002 - Timmy
2003 - Timmy
2004 - Timmy
2005 - Timmy
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Tie but give the edge to Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 -Kobe
2010 -Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 -Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

FIXED :pimp:


yea right... lebron just now figured out how to play basketball

took him 9 years



kobe and duncan were complete fundimental players by age 23

lebron not so much

[DonDadda59]

yea right... lebron just now figured out how to play basketball

took him 9 years



kobe and duncan were complete fundimental players by age 23

lebron not so much

Yeah... Lebron at X age>>>Kobe at X age, going all the way back to high school.

[kennethgriffin]

Yeah... Lebron at X age>>>Kobe at X age, going all the way back to high school.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/frewfgg-1.png

theres more to the game than stats

[The Iron Fist]

Yeah... Lebron at X age>>>Kobe at X age, going all the way back to high school.
At what?

Being a huge disappointment?

"Witness" the "King" go 1-2 in the finals and getting his only win being carried by 2 all stars and bench players.

[SuperPippen]

At what?

Being a huge disappointment?

"Witness" the "King" go 1-2 in the finals and getting his only win being carried by 2 all stars and bench players.

I'll put it this way. LeBron got carried to his first ring the same way Kobe got carried to his second and third rings.

[DonDadda59]

At what?

Being a huge disappointment?

"Witness" the "King" go 1-2 in the finals and getting his only win being carried by 2 all stars and bench players.

At Basketball :confusedshrug:

And funny that Lebron was 'carried' during his historic playoff run, meanwhile Kobe somehow managed to get one of his rings while putting up 15 PPG on 36% shooting. How on Earth did he pull that off? :confusedshrug:


Stop it. Lebron as a junior in high school>>Kobe in '00, and I'm not even a big Lebron fan. It is what it is :oldlol:

[BlackVVaves]

I'll put it this way. LeBron got carried to his first ring the same way Kobe got carried to his second and third rings.

Kobe definitely got "carried" to his first ring.

You have less of a case for 2001, and even lesser a case for 2002.

To the people who claim Kobe was such a 2nd option during his first 3 rings, I ask you this: Name me 3 perimeter players that would have been the 1st option on the 2000-2002 Laker championship teams with PRIME Shaq.

Yea. Go ahead. I'll wait.

[Ne 1]

At Basketball :confusedshrug:

And funny that Lebron was 'carried' during his historic playoff run, meanwhile Kobe somehow managed to get one of his rings while putting up 15 PPG on 36% shooting. How on Earth did he pull that off? :confusedshrug:


Stop it. Lebron as a junior in high school>>Kobe in '00, and I'm not even a big Lebron fan. It is what it is :oldlol:

Why don't you go watch some games instead of just looking at box scores.

Against the Pacers Kobe only scored 2 points in game 2 because he twisted his ankle in the 1st quarter and left the game. He also didn't play in game 3 but returned the next game disregarding doctors orders.

In game 4 he single-handedly carried the team when Shaq fouled out in the 4th. he hit 4 huge free throws and lit the Pacers up in overtime in what is regarded as on of the most exciting playoff games and clutch performances.

Also Game 5 is universally accepted as a game the Lakers threw (lost by 33 pts, remember) so they could celebrate in L.A.


Kobe only played in 3 games that series and he averaged 23/5/6 on 42% shooting. Even if you wanna count game 5 ; Kobe only has one bad game in the 2000 Finals.

26/10/4/2/1 with only 1 TO and an excellent defensive game in the clinching game of the NBA Finals is excellent and game 4 was a great game when you consider what he did in the 4th quarter and overtime.

[DonDadda59]

Why don't you go watch some games instead of just looking at box scores.

Uh, I watched them as they happened. DID YOU?


Against the Pacers Kobe only scored 2 points in game 2 because he twisted his ankle in the 1st quarter and left the game. He also didn't play in game 3 but returned the next game disregarding doctors orders.

In game 4 he single-handedly carried the team when Shaq fouled out in the 4th. he hit 4 huge free throws and lit the Pacers up in overtime in what is regarded as on of the most exciting playoff games and clutch performances.

Also Game 5 is universally accepted as a game the Lakers threw (lost by 33 pts, remember) so they could celebrate in L.A.


Kobe only played in 3 games that series and he averaged 23/5/6 on 42% shooting. Even if you wanna count game 5 ; Kobe only has one bad game in the 2000 Finals.

26/10/4/2/1 with only 1 TO and an excellent defensive game in the clinching game of the NBA Finals is excellent and game 4 was a great game when you consider what he did in the 4th quarter and overtime.

All that to say Shaq carried him to his first championship and Kobe averaged 15 PPG on 36% shooting in the finals? Gotta applaud the effort :applause:

[PistolPete44]

Oh great another thread invaded by kobe stans

[RIP CITY]

Duncan from 98 to 2007. Kobe from then on. Overall impact goes beyond statistics.

And anyone who thinks Tony Parker was the best player on the Spurs in 2007 is a f*cking idiot who clearly doesn't understand the game of basketball.

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan from 98 to 2007. Kobe from then on. Overall impact goes beyond statistics.

And anyone who thinks Tony Parker was the best player on the Spurs in 2007 is a f*cking idiot who clearly doesn't understand the game of basketball.


funny... because kobe won sports illustrated/sporting news/tnt player of the decade


so its a minority opinion to assume duncan was better during the 00's more years than kobe was

2003,2006,2007,2008,2009,2010 = kobe

2000,2001,2002,2004,2005 = duncan


majority opinion > minority opinion

[RIP CITY]

funny... because kobe won sports illustrated/sporting news/tnt player of the decade


so its a minority opinion to assume duncan was better during the 00's more years than kobe was

2003,2006,2007,2008,2009,2010 = kobe

2000,2001,2002,2004,2005 = duncan


majority opinion > minority opinion

I really couldn't give less of a fruck about the majority opinion. The "majority opinion" also thinks Twilight is a good movie and that Justin Beiber sells good music too, doesn't mean I'm going to agree with it.

[Round Mound]

Duncan from 98 to 2007. Kobe from then on. Overall impact goes beyond statistics.

And anyone who thinks Tony Parker was the best player on the Spurs in 2007 is a f*cking idiot who clearly doesn't understand the game of basketball.

:applause:

[TheeBeast]

1998-2005: Tim Duncan

from then on, Kobe.

Nope its
1998-00: Tim Duncan
00-01: Kobe Bryant
01-02: Tim Duncan

And from then on, Kobe

[rmt]

funny... because kobe won sports illustrated/sporting news/tnt player of the decade

so its a minority opinion to assume duncan was better during the 00's more years than kobe was

2003,2006,2007,2008,2009,2010 = kobe

2000,2001,2002,2004,2005 = duncan

majority opinion > minority opinion

That is one dangerous statement. If Christopher Columbus had believed that the world was flat like everyone else, who knows how long the New World would have been "discovered?" I teach my teens to think for themselves and not just follow what their peers think.

[kennethgriffin]

That is one dangerous statement. If Christopher Columbus had believed that the world was flat like everyone else, who knows how long the New World would have been "discovered?" I teach my teens to think for themselves and not just follow what their peers think.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/gweggt.png

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/trwhthj.jpg

[TheeBeast]

That is one dangerous statement. If Christopher Columbus had believed that the world was flat like everyone else, who knows how long the New World would have been "discovered?" I teach my teens to think for themselves and not just follow what their peers think.

That's comparing apples and oranges.

The earth being round is a logical scientific fact, while an NBA player being "better" than another is almost entirely off of opinion.


By the way, Columbus always thought the earth was flat until he sailed and figured out it wasn't.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

That's comparing apples and oranges.

The earth being flat is a logical scientific fact, while an NBA player being "better" than another is almost entirely off of opinion.

A is better than B because X says so or more P think so = fallacy

[BlackVVaves]

I really couldn't give less of a fruck about the majority opinion. The "majority opinion" also thinks Twilight is a good movie and that Justin Beiber sells good music too, doesn't mean I'm going to agree with it.

Duncan was not a better player than Kobe in 2006 or 2007. If you are saying that, you are saying Duncan was the best player in the league. 20, 10, and 3 & 19, 11, and 3. You are saying that's the best player in the league.

Your post prior to this one is basically suggesting for all of us to ignore the statistics and the games that we watched of the two from 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 and to instead call Duncan the better player simply because you said so.

Not sure if serious.

Kobe dominated those years. He completely dominated. If not for playing with the likes of Kwame Brown and Smush Parker those years it is very likely he would have picked up another ring in one of those two seasons.

[Ne 1]

Uh, I watched them as they happened. DID YOU?



All that to say Shaq carried him to his first championship and Kobe averaged 15 PPG on 36% shooting in the finals? Gotta applaud the effort :applause:

Lakers don't win that series if it wasn't for Kobe, they don't even go to the Finals if not for Kobe taking over in game 7 against Portland in the WCF. Shaq "carried Kobe" but he didn't win anything until Kobe developed into a superstar despite having Penny Hardaway and then an All-Star backcourt with Eddie Jones/Nick Van Exel.

btw Kobe at 21 years playing with a busted ankle helping lead his team to a championship > a
LeBailouts career

[TheeBeast]

A is better than B because X says so or more P think so = fallacy

Better=Opinion

Opinion≠Fallacy/Fact

[RIP CITY]

Duncan was not a better player than Kobe in 2006 or 2007. If you are saying that, you are saying Duncan was the best player in the league. 20, 10, and 3 & 19, 11, and 3. You are saying that's the best player in the league.

Your post prior to this one is basically suggesting for all of us to ignore the statistics and the games that we watched of the two from 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 and to instead call Duncan the better player simply because you said so.

Not sure if serious.

Kobe dominated those years. He completely dominated. If not for playing with the likes of Kwame Brown and Smush Parker those years it is very likely he would have picked up another ring in one of those two seasons.

I am stating my opinion, neither my opinion or your opinion or the popular opinion are fact. In my opinion, Tim Duncan had a bigger overall impact on the game of basketball than Kobe Bryant from 1998 until 2007. From the 2007-2008 season on, I think Kobe Bryant had a bigger impact than Duncan.

You are using statistics that don't tell the whole story of the game on court, you are basically saying because Kobe scored alot more that means he had a greater impact on the court, I disagree with that assumption. It's an opinion on both ends, neither one of us can prove beyond a shadow of doubt who is right.

[BlackVVaves]

I am stating my opinion, neither my opinion or your opinion or the popular opinion are fact. In my opinion, Tim Duncan had a bigger overall impact on the game of basketball than Kobe Bryant from 1998 until 2007. From the 2007-2008 season on, I think Kobe Bryant had a bigger impact than Duncan.

You are using statistics that don't tell the whole story of the game on court, you are basically saying because Kobe scored alot more that means he had a greater impact on the court, I disagree with that assumption. It's an opinion on both ends, neither one of us can prove beyond a shadow of doubt who is right.

Before I respond, allow me to quote you from StateofMind's "Best player in the NBA since Jordan retired from the Bulls" thread [http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272002&page=2]


1999 - Tim Duncan
2000 - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - Shaquille O'Neal
2002 - Shaquille O'Neal
2003 - Tim Duncan
2004 - Tim Duncan
2005 - Tim Duncan
2006 - Tim Duncan
2007 - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Kobe Bryant
2009 - Kobe Bryant
2010 - Kobe Bryant
2011 - LeBron James
2012 - Lebron James


So, you think Duncan was better than Kobe in 2007, but that Kobe was the best player in the league in 2007.

:wtf:

Second, though I agree with your statement concerning the difference between opinion and fact, there is a fine line between the court of public opinion backed my facts, and mere opinion.

You're speaking of impact, so let's speak impact. Let's take 2006, for instance.

Kobe had a PER of 28. Duncan's PER? 23.

Kobe had a Total Shooting Percentage of 56%. Duncan's TS%? 52%.

Kobe's Win Shares Total equaled 15. Duncan's? 11.

So............:confusedshrug:

[RIP CITY]

Before I respond, allow me to quote you from StateofMind's "Best player in the NBA since Jordan retired from the Bulls" thread [http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272002&page=2]



So, you think Duncan was better than Kobe in 2007, but that Kobe was the best player in the league in 2007.

:wtf:



I just said in my last post in this thread, from the 2007-2008 season on, Kobe Bryant was the best player between Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant. Yes, I did say in the first post from 98-07, it's just a typing error on my part. I meant from 98 to the end of 06 I felt Duncan had the bigger impact. You caught me in a typing mistake, my fault. In the end it's semantics, end of 06 = 2007. 2007-2008 is debatable as well, considering Duncan led his team to a Championship that season but I feel like Kobe had the greater impact as an individual player that season because Duncan started to decline offensively and even alittle bit defensively, thus making it possible for Kobe to become the more impactful player.


You're speaking of impact, so let's speak impact. Let's take 2006, for instance.

Kobe had a PER of 28. Duncan's PER? 23.

Kobe had a Total Shooting Percentage of 56%. Duncan's TS%? 52%.

Kobe's Win Shares Total equaled 15. Duncan's? 11.

So............:confusedshrug:

Again, you are only looking at statistics and more specifically... scoring. PER is a stat I hold no value in, so I'm going to ignore that useless stat. What I am talking about, is overall impact on both sides of the ball. Kobe Bryant was unquestionably the best scorer in the NBA in 2006, before and after that even. But Tim Duncan was the best defensive player in the League in my opinion, backed by the fact that the Spurs have been the best defensive team in the NBA over the last decade + and Duncan being the one consistent anchor of that defense the entire time. Duncan was a great one on one post defender (best in the League), a great weakside help defender (one of the Top 2-5), one of the best big men at showing on screens (Top 5), made great rotations inside of the paint and was the vocal and physical leader of a great defense team. He was the best defensive player in the NBA for probably an entire decade, if not longer. Now, you can argue that Duncan never won DPOY and you'd be right to do so. But the fact that Duncan never won DPOY, in fact that he didn't win multiple DPOY's is one of the biggest travesties in NBA history. I'm a Pistons fan, and I will admit that despite Ben Wallace winning 4 DPOY's, he was never a better defensive player than Tim Duncan, same can be said for all of the DPOY winners over Duncan's prime years.

I would also argue that Tim Duncan was the better team offensive player and that while Kobe was clearly and indisputably the best scorer in the NBA, Tim Duncan had a similar impact offensively because he was a dominant post player and everything successful about the Spurs offense is from a direct impact of Duncan's presence on the floor. Parker my be the PG, but the offense runs through and around Duncan. He forced double-teams which helped space the floor and open things up for teammates, his passing out of the post when double-teamed (Duncan is the best in the League at this) is what led to the Spurs patented swing offense (he almost always made the initial, timely pass and without it being a good, timely pass the rest of the swinging from side to side doesn't work as effectively or in some cases at all), his screen setting accounted for a tremendous amount of Parker and Ginobili's success in driving to the basket (they made a living coming off screen and rolls with him and walking into the lane because the defense followed Duncan's roll to the basket), his offensive rebounding (and keeping rebounds alive that teammates ended up getting) led to second chance opportunities and of course, he was still scoring 20 PPG on 50+ FG% and making clutch plays in crunch time (on both ends of the floor).

I'm not one of those people who will sit here and rag on Kobe for being selfish. I'd rather have him shooting the ball than anyone else on the team the majority of the time and he's an unstoppable scorer, but Kobe impacts the offense for himself and often stagnates the offense of the Lakers and freezes teammates out, sometimes he should, sometimes he shouldn't. But he didn't impact his teams offense in many ways outside of scoring at an excellent rate. Obviously, he did free up open looks for his teammates by being the focus of the defense, just like Duncan, but Duncan impacted every aspect of the Spurs offense, while Kobe was mainly just a incredible scorer who's presence made it easier for certain players (shooters mainly) to get some open looks.

Kobe's defense is up and down, and 2006 particularity for example might have been his worse defensive season, because he had to carry so much of the offensive load he slacked off on defense more so than ever. Kobe's defense, which at times is great, even for full season's unlike some claim, has never been nearly as impactful as Duncan's. And I would argue the difference between Duncan's impact on defense and Kobe's impact on offense, are in Duncan's favor for the reasons I mentioned above. That's why I think Duncan had a greater impact on games than Kobe did, even though Kobe's scoring numbers are far greater than Duncan's, which is your main point.

You could argue that that's just my opinion, but I never said otherwise and that's all this message board is here for, for us to share our opinions.

[I LUV KOBE]

When you compare 2 of the best of the 2000's year by year for there career starting from the time when both were in the league (1998), who would say was the better player in each season?

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Kobe
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Kobe
2005 - Kobe
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 -
^this

[onhcetum]

I'm going to say it again... 95% of you guys don't even play basketball. You guys are a bunch of John Clayton-looking geeks who ramble on and on about stats and talk about basketball on the forums all day.

Kobe was not even the alpha of his own team until 2005. You guys are blinded by the fact that Duncan only averages 18-22 ppg and that Kobe averages upwards of 30 ppg, so you guys are like "yeah Kobe's better". So were gonna act like Duncan hasn't been the alpha of his team since he was a rookie and the #1 offensive weapon, as well as the defensive anchor of that team for over 14+ seasons right? The Spurs haven't had a legit center since David Robinson. Old man McDyess and Kurt Thomas and 6'5" NO ACL Dajuan Blair don't count either. Duncan has been the defensive anchor of that team... the heart and soul of that team. THAT ALONE makes me have duncan > Kobe until 2008.

Undisputed alpha...never missing the playoffs... every year 50+ wins... 4 titles as the alpha... enough said.

[secund2nun]

LOL Kobe is so overrated and Duncan is so underrated.

Duncan was a far superior player than Kobe ever was. They were in different leagues.

Kobe in his prime could not even win a playoff series in the 3 seasons after Shaq and before Gasol.

[Punpun]

Oh my, I love being right all the time. I predicted this thread would devolve into a shitfest as it was a troll thread. I got insulted and what happened ? People trolling right and left.

Oh Ish, you are so predictable. :yaohappy:

[D.J.]

Duncan was better every year up to 2006. '06 on, Kobe has been better. Duncan's two way game(especially at the defensive end) puts him above Kobe from '98-'05, even if Kobe was putting up close to 30 a game.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

21 year old Duncan vs 18 year old Kobe

:applause:

[TheeBeast]

Duncan was in his prime far before Kobe was, which gives him an edge early on. But after Kobe peaked, its not even an argument.

[I LUV KOBE]

Duncan only has 3-4 year that was better than Kobe and that was when Kobe was still a teen..

[Jacks3]

98-Duncan
99-Duncan
00-Duncan
01-Kobe
02-Duncan
03-Duncan
04-Duncan
05-Duncan
06-Kobe
07-Kobe
08-Kobe
09-Kobe
10-Kobe
11-Kobe
12-Kobe

[9erempiree]

Kobe....and it's not even close.

Kobe was just too good. He was already regarded as the best player and all around player in the game when he was young.

[EnoughSaid]

Kobe has an argument for 2001 only in terms of Duncan's best years.

1998-2005 Duncan
2006-present Kobe

[ShaqAttack3234]

1998- Duncan
1999- Duncan
2000- Duncan
2001- Duncan
2002- Duncan
2003- Duncan
2004- Duncan
2005- Duncan
2006- Kobe
2007- Kobe
2008- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2010- Kobe
2011- Kobe
2012- Kobe

Could have just saved time and said '98-'05 for Duncan and '06-'12 for Kobe. :oldlol:

Most years were clear to me, except '01 and '07 are both close. In the case of '01, Kobe was the 2nd best player in the entire playoffs, and better than Duncan in the postseason, but due to his problems in the regular season and the fact that I'd build a team around Duncan, he was still the clear choice to me.

As far as when the general public and people in the game considered the 2 debatable. Some people started taking Kobe over Duncan in '01, and people stopped really taking Kobe over Duncan around '08-'09.



Why don't you go watch some games instead of just looking at box scores.

Against the Pacers Kobe only scored 2 points in game 2 because he twisted his ankle in the 1st quarter and left the game. He also didn't play in game 3 but returned the next game disregarding doctors orders.

In game 4 he single-handedly carried the team when Shaq fouled out in the 4th. he hit 4 huge free throws and lit the Pacers up in overtime in what is regarded as on of the most exciting playoff games and clutch performances.

Also Game 5 is universally accepted as a game the Lakers threw (lost by 33 pts, remember) so they could celebrate in L.A.


Kobe only played in 3 games that series and he averaged 23/5/6 on 42% shooting. Even if you wanna count game 5 ; Kobe only has one bad game in the 2000 Finals.

26/10/4/2/1 with only 1 TO and an excellent defensive game in the clinching game of the NBA Finals is excellent and game 4 was a great game when you consider what he did in the 4th quarter and overtime.

I agree that Kobe was very good by 2000. Top 10 and the best SG in the league, the best defender among all-star guards other than maybe Eddie Jones. And he should be credited for clutch plays and moments throughout the playoffs. And despite averaging 22-23 ppg, he was arguably the most skilled and talented perimeter scorer already as well as a gifted playmaker even if he was still learning how to be a consistent facilitator and incorporate his individual talent into the team concept. He seemed to learn those things in the '01 playoffs.

But even with him struggling with his shot, you shouldn't be averaging several more FGA than ppg. He has an excuse for his ppg being lower due to leaving game 2 early, and his ankle injury is worth mentioning, though arguably his best game of the postseason came after it.

Regardless a 4/20 shooting game is unacceptable and 8/27 is very good as well. He was also quiet in game 1. So outside of game 1, he did get carried for much of that series, but that championship in general shouldn't be completely dismissed either. He was one of only 2 Laker players near all-star level, and one of only 3 Lakers who were offensive threats at all(and a washed up Glen Rice wasn't playing like one in the playoffs, with many of the negatives on and off the court outweighing the one positive of his one-dimensional game;...which was fading).

But most importantly, the claim that the Lakers threw game 5 is one of the most laughable things I've ever heard. I doubt a team that had that much pressure on them would even consider doing that. I don't see Kobe shooting 4/20 on purpose, and then consider that the Pacers were more experienced, every Laker game was a 6 point game or less entering the 4th, and they were in serious danger of losing game 6 and facing a 7th game. I'd assume they'd have learned something after nearly blowing a 3-1 lead to Portland and Sacramento taking them to a maximum 5th game after the Lakers went up 2-0.

The Lakers just lost game 5 and Kobe played about as poorly as you can. It doesn't make him a bad player, or take away from his season, but it's reality.

[1987_Lakers]

I'm going to say it again... 95% of you guys don't even play basketball. You guys are a bunch of John Clayton-looking geeks who ramble on and on about stats and talk about basketball on the forums all day.
:roll:

[Ketchup]

Did some of you seriously put Kobe as better in Duncan's MVP years lol?

[Duncan21formvp]

Did some of you seriously put Kobe as better in Duncan's MVP years lol?
:cheers:

[Chris16]

I'd give 2001 to Tim Duncan. Sure he got swept in the WCF but he still had a strong season up until then, saying Duncan wasn't better that year because of 1 series is a terrible assumption. His teammates were noshows throughout the series, while the Lakers played great as a team the entire postseason. Let's not forget that Shaq was apart of the Lakers at the time, so Shaq was the leader of the team.

There's a reason Duncan was in 2nd place for MVP that year.

[Deuce Bigalow]

LOL Kobe is so overrated and Duncan is so underrated.

Duncan was a far superior player than Kobe ever was. They were in different leagues.

Kobe in his prime could not even win a playoff series in the 3 seasons after Shaq and before Gasol.
Kareem in his prime with the Lakers:

1974-75: Missed the Playoffs
1975-76: Missed the Playoffs

[Smoke117]

1998- Duncan
1999- Duncan
2000- Duncan
2001- Duncan
2002- Duncan
2003- Duncan
2004- Duncan
2005- Duncan
2006- Kobe
2007- Kobe
2008- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2010- Kobe
2011- Kobe
2012- Kobe


You say Kobe is better in 06 and 07, but why? Because he jacked up a lot shots and scored a lot of points? Duncan may not have been scoring a lot anymore, but Duncan was an extremely dominant defensive anchor in 06 and 07 and you'd have an big PF/C who averaged 18.6/11.0rpg/3.2apg/2.0bpg/48.6%fg in 06 and 20.0ppg/10.6rpg/3.4apg/2.4bpg/.546%fg. Frankly the Spurs just played more team ball with Ginobili and Parker involved in the offense more and Duncan taking less shots, but he was only 29 and 30. If you replace Kobe with Duncan in 06 and 07 on the Lakers they would definitely win more games. They were ranked 15th and 24th in defense in 06 and 07 and that would immediately change with Tim Duncan as your anchor.

Just because Kobe puts up these big shit ppg does not make him the better player. His first team all defensive team selections are a joke as he was making it in 06 and 07 and changing absolutely nothing. Not to mention the ball would flow through Duncan more and his shots would go up and therefore he would have scored more points. Either way his dominant impact on defense assures me that the Lakers would have better records and be a better team with Duncan instead of Kobe on the Lakers in 06 and 07.

[macpierce]

You say Kobe is better in 06 and 07, but why? Because he jacked up a lot shots and scored a lot of points? Duncan may not have been scoring a lot anymore, but Duncan was an extremely dominant defensive anchor in 06 and 07 and you'd have an big PF/C who averaged 18.6/11.0rpg/3.2apg/2.0bpg/48.6%fg in 06 and 20.0ppg/10.6rpg/3.4apg/2.4bpg/.546%fg. Frankly the Spurs just played more team ball with Ginobili and Parker involved in the offense more and Duncan taking less shots, but he was only 29 and 30. If you replace Kobe with Duncan in 06 and 07 on the Lakers they would definitely win more games. They were ranked 15th and 24th in defense in 06 and 07 and that would immediately change with Tim Duncan as your anchor.

Just because Kobe puts up these big shit ppg does not make him the better player. His first team all defensive team selections are a joke as he was making it in 06 and 07 and changing absolutely nothing. Not to mention the ball would flow through Duncan more and his shots would go up and therefore he would have scored more points. Either way his dominant impact on defense assures me that the Lakers would have better records and be a better team with Duncan instead of Kobe on the Lakers in 06 and 07.

The lakers were rebuilding, I'd like to see how the spurs offense runs when parker/gino arent there to facilitate for Duncan.

[RIP CITY]

The lakers were rebuilding, I'd like to see how the spurs offense runs when parker/gino arent there to facilitate for Duncan.

Duncan facilitated for them much more than they ever did for him (at the time). The Spurs offense ran through Duncan, not Parker/Ginobili.

[Freedom Kid7]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

Guys, it's preposterous to put Kobe ahead of Duncan in '02 and '03. Those were his MVP years and Duncan played some mean basketball. The numbers he put up in 2003 were beyond incredible.

And that's all I have to say about that /gump

[fpliii]

97-98: Duncan
98-99: Duncan
99-00: Tie
00-01: Kobe
01-02: Duncan
02-03: Duncan
03-04: Tie
04-05: Duncan
05-06: Kobe
06-07: Duncan
07-08: Kobe
08-09: Kobe
09-10: Kobe
10-11: Kobe
11-12: Tie

6-6-2 draw (not all winning years are created equal, obv)

[T_L_P]

1998: Duncan
1999: Duncan
2000: Kobe (Duncan missed Playoffs)
2001: Kobe
2002: Duncan
2003: Duncan
2004: Duncan
2005: Duncan
2006: Tie (Kobe was the best player in the regular season, Duncan was the best player in the postseason)
2007: Duncan
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Kobe
2012: Kobe
2013: Duncan (Kobe missed Playoffs)
2014: Duncan (Kobe missed season)

9-7-1 in Duncan's favour.

[HOoopCityJones]

There you go again TLP, sucking on that deaf Duncan Dick.

Kobe's numbers shit on Duncan's in 2013.

And he had to will a dysfunctional Team to the Playoffs.

I only saw any semblance of the old Timmy in the Playoffs, specifically The Finals and he CHOKED in the biggest ways.

They were only there because of Pop, Tony and Kawaii anyway.

Duncan's been done since 08.

You guys get a stiffy at his 18 pts nights. xDD

[Gifted Mind]

I think some of the discrepancies between people's rankings can be attributed to some ranking better player while others better season year-by-year. Better player I just view them as a basketball player and how well they played the game, while better season factors in accomplishments more and is similar to MVP but for the full season.

Better basketball player

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe
2013 - Kobe
2014 - Duncan


Better season

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Kobe
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe
2013 - Duncan
2014 - Duncan

[elementally morale]

Kobe has the advantage as a skilled and more entertaining basketball player, but a good big man is worth more for his team than a guard. (Yes, I heard about MJ, but still.)

So as an individual player, my answer is Kobe and it is quite clear. As for more valuable for his team, I have to go with Duncan.

[Magic 32]

2006: Tie (Kobe was the best player in the regular season, Duncan was the best player in the postseason)


82

>

13 games vs 44 wins Kings team & loss to the Mavs.

[ImKobe]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Kobe
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Kobe
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe
2013 - Kobe (Duncan choked in the Finals, can't give him the edge when Kobe had his most efficient regular season since his prime years)
2014 - Duncan obviously, Kobe's injured.


Duncan had years on Kobe when entering the league and was in his prime earlier, so he has the edge in the beginning, then Kobe enters his prime and you know the rest.

[robert_shaww]

1998: Duncan
1999: Duncan
2000: Kobe (Duncan missed Playoffs)
2001: Kobe
2002: Duncan
2003: Duncan
2004: Duncan
2005: Duncan
2006: Tie (Kobe was the best player in the regular season, Duncan was the best player in the postseason)
2007: Duncan
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Kobe
2012: Kobe
2013: Duncan (Kobe missed Playoffs)
2014: Duncan (Kobe missed season)

9-7-1 in Duncan's favour.

http://media.theweek.com/img/generic/biden-debate-ryan.gif

[Rocketswin2013]

1998: Duncan
1999: Duncan
2000: Duncan
2001: Kobe
2002: Kobe
2003: Duncan
2004: Duncan
2005: Duncan
2006: Kobe
2007: Duncan
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Kobe
2012: Kobe
2013: Duncan
2014: Duncan

[ImKobe]

1998: Duncan
1999: Duncan
2000: Kobe (Duncan missed Playoffs)
2001: Kobe
2002: Duncan
2003: Duncan
2004: Duncan
2005: Duncan
2006: Tie (Kobe was the best player in the regular season, Duncan was the best player in the postseason)
2007: Duncan
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Kobe
2012: Kobe
2013: Duncan (Kobe missed Playoffs)
2014: Duncan (Kobe missed season)

9-7-1 in Duncan's favour.

I have problems with the bolded. 2002 Kobe eliminated Duncan from the Playoffs in 5 games while putting up 26/5/5 on 46% shooting
2004 Kobe eliminated Duncan from the Playoffs while putting up 26/6/6/2 on 46% shooting
2006 I agree is debatable, but then again despite Duncan putting up monster numbers against Dallas, the Spurs choked on their home floor in OT, that was horrible. Also doesn't help that Dirk outplayed Duncan in that series while not even using his 3-point shot.

2007: Kobe was better than Duncan in the regular season by far, Duncan did win a title, but he was a sidekick to Tony Parker in the Finals while playing like garbage in the last 2 game of the series(shooting 10-32 and 8 TOs combined in Games 3 & 4)

2013: Kobe had his best statistical season since his prime years and carried a bunch of scrubs to the Playoffs, you cited "missed Playoffs" like Kobe didn't drag a lottery team into Playoff position and didn't suffer a near career-ending injury...Duncan did go to the Finals, but he choked bad in Game 7, Duncan and Kobe both had a nightmare season, but in different ways. I could call it a tie to be fair.

Kobe's 4-2 over Duncan in the Playoffs and has had more Playoff success, some of your picks were obviously homer picks and I can't hate you for that, obviously I am a "little" biased myself, but honestly, Kobe's been better or as good as than Duncan for most of his career.

[DMAVS41]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

Guys, it's preposterous to put Kobe ahead of Duncan in '02 and '03. Those were his MVP years and Duncan played some mean basketball. The numbers he put up in 2003 were beyond incredible.

And that's all I have to say about that /gump

98/99/00 Duncan
01 Push
02/03/04/05 Duncan
06/07 Push
08/09/10/11/12 Kobe
13/14/Duncan

[ThePhantomCreep]

1998 Duncan
1999 Duncan
2000 Duncan
2001 Tie
2002 Duncan
2003 Duncan
2004 Duncan
2005 Duncan
2006 Kobe
2007 Kobe
2008 Kobe
2009 Kobe
2010 Kobe
2011 Kobe
2012 Kobe
2013 Kobe
2014 Duncan

8-8-1 = Draw

[ThePhantomCreep]

You say Kobe is better in 06 and 07, but why? Because he jacked up a lot shots and scored a lot of points? Duncan may not have been scoring a lot anymore, but Duncan was an extremely dominant defensive anchor in 06 and 07 and you'd have an big PF/C who averaged 18.6/11.0rpg/3.2apg/2.0bpg/48.6%fg in 06 and 20.0ppg/10.6rpg/3.4apg/2.4bpg/.546%fg. Frankly the Spurs just played more team ball with Ginobili and Parker involved in the offense more and Duncan taking less shots, but he was only 29 and 30. If you replace Kobe with Duncan in 06 and 07 on the Lakers they would definitely win more games. They were ranked 15th and 24th in defense in 06 and 07 and that would immediately change with Tim Duncan as your anchor.

Just because Kobe puts up these big shit ppg does not make him the better player. His first team all defensive team selections are a joke as he was making it in 06 and 07 and changing absolutely nothing. Not to mention the ball would flow through Duncan more and his shots would go up and therefore he would have scored more points. Either way his dominant impact on defense assures me that the Lakers would have better records and be a better team with Duncan instead of Kobe on the Lakers in 06 and 07.

Lmao, 2006 and 2007 were some of Kobe's best years, arguably better than his title years, and you argue that Duncan's Daugherty-esque numbers were better? GTFO

[GimmeThat]

Tim Duncan has yet to win a championship since Kobe 2peated.

Shaq/Kobe had also beat Duncan/DRob duo

The Spurs consistently plays at a high level with limited range of error (not counting injuries)

It probably shows you how often the other teams in the league are built, then torn apart based on whatever reasons.


But to answer your question.

Tim Duncan is a role player, how the hell does a role player have a better season than a superstar

:rolleyes:

[aboss4real24]

Duncan has become Highly overrated

BG Will B Better wen its all sed n dun

[Big#50]

98-Duncan
99-Duncan
2000-Duncan
2001-Duncan
2002-Duncan
2003-Duncan
2004-Duncan
2005-Duncan
2006-Kobe
2007-Duncan
2008-Kobe
2009-Kobe
2010-Kobe
2011-Kobe
2012-Kobe
2013-Duncan
2014-Duncan

[HOoopCityJones]

I'm ****ing astonished how people are delusional enough to believe Duncan had a better season than Kobe in 2013.

[DMAVS41]

I'm ****ing astonished how people are delusional enough to believe Duncan had a better season than Kobe in 2013.

I won't go the Kobe's season was over-rated way, but it was.

I think people really don't give Duncan enough credit. He was playing elite level defense while giving his team 18/10/3...

That is absolutely right there with Kobe gunning for points every night and completely abandoning defense.

Duncan could have easily put up big numbers on an average team while using no energy at all to play defense like Kobe did.

And this isn't to say Kobe didn't have a great year last year. It's just over-rated because he played in Dantoni's system, didn't pretend to try on defense, and gunned every night.

Do people really think Duncan couldn't go for 25/12/4 playing a heavy load of minutes against scrub regular season teams while never trying on defense? Please...he could have...and he would have worn down just like Kobe and would have gotten injured.

Duncan deserved both his first team all nba selection and first team all defense selection. And then was the best player on a team that came within a missed ft or rebound of winning the title.


I'm ****ing astonished Kobe fans think one is delusional for taking Duncan last year.

[ThePhantomCreep]

I won't go the Kobe's season was over-rated way, but it was.

I think people really don't give Duncan enough credit. He was playing elite level defense while giving his team 18/10/3...

That is absolutely right there with Kobe gunning for points every night and completely abandoning defense.

Duncan could have easily put up big numbers on an average team while using no energy at all to play defense like Kobe did.

And this isn't to say Kobe didn't have a great year last year. It's just over-rated because he played in Dantoni's system, didn't pretend to try on defense, and gunned every night.

Do people really think Duncan couldn't go for 25/12/4 playing a heavy load of minutes against scrub regular season teams while never trying on defense? Please...he could have...and he would have worn down just like Kobe and would have gotten injured.

Duncan deserved both his first team all nba selection and first team all defense selection. And then was the best player on a team that came within a missed ft or rebound of winning the title.


I'm ****ing astonished Kobe fans think one is delusional for taking Duncan last year.

If Duncan tried to average 25 a game at his age, his TS% would drop below 50% easy.

He has ONE season averaging over 25+ ppg. One.

Picking Duncan over Kobe in 2013 is delusional. Thinking Duncan could put up numbers he only managed occasionally at his peak is just madness.

[DMAVS41]

If Duncan tried to average 25 a game at his age, his TS% would drop below 50% easy.

He has ONE season averaging over 25+ ppg. One.

Picking Duncan over Kobe in 2013 is delusional. Thinking Duncan could put up numbers he only managed occasionally at his peak is just madness.

Nah...this is what you don't get.

If Duncan rested on defense and just gunned for points like Kobe did...he could easily average 25 ppg in the regular season. I think he'd probably shoot around 54% TS honestly just focusing on offense.

And even with Duncan not even trying much on defense...he'd be a far superior defender than what Kobe did last year.

You play Duncan 39 mpg in the regular season on a team struggling to make the playoffs and make him the first option on offense and you are going to get roughly 24/12/4 on 54% TS...and you'd see him wear down dramatically by the end of the year and probably get severely injured just like Kobe.

But honestly there is no need to play these hypotheticals. Duncan just at the level he played last year was great...and definitely on par with Kobe.

Terrible defense vs elite defense
Terrible teammate vs elite teammate


Even in less minutes, Duncan combined to have more rebounds and assists per game than Kobe.

The only difference in the raw stats was ppg. And Kobe scored 9 more points on 6 more shots per game.

Meh...not nearly enough to trump Duncan's far superior defense.


You are the one with the burden of proof. You have to show how it's delusional to take a first team all nba and first team all defense (deserved) that is an excellent teammate and gives you 18/10/3 over a straight up gunner that played far worse defense, was worse on the glass/assists combined...but scored 9 more points on 6 more shots per game.

[DMAVS41]

If Duncan tried to average 25 a game at his age, his TS% would drop below 50% easy.

He has ONE season averaging over 25+ ppg. One.

Picking Duncan over Kobe in 2013 is delusional. Thinking Duncan could put up numbers he only managed occasionally at his peak is just madness.

Was Carmelo better than Duncan?
Was Harden better than Duncan?

You are only saying this shit because it's Kobe...you aren't actually basing it off his play.

He struggled with ****ing Dwight Howard/Gasol to make the playoffs. Anyone else does that and we kill them for it.

Some stats from 2013;

Carmelo 29/7/3 56% TS
Harden 26/5/6 60% TS

Were those players better than Kobe? Were they better than Duncan? Please answer.

How about Westbrook? Was he better than them both? His efficiency was worse than Kobe's, but Kobe fans say that doesn't matter when you are an alpha...and sure as shit WB played far better defense than Kobe.

So is 23/5/7 54% TS with far better defense also delusional to place over Kobe?

[ThePhantomCreep]

Nah...this is what you don't get.

If Duncan rested on defense and just gunned for points like Kobe did...he could easily average 25 ppg in the regular season. I think he'd probably shoot around 54% TS honestly just focusing on offense.

And even with Duncan not even trying much on defense...he'd be a far superior defender than what Kobe did last year.

You play Duncan 39 mpg in the regular season on a team struggling to make the playoffs and make him the first option on offense and you are going to get roughly 24/12/4 on 54% TS...and you'd see him wear down dramatically by the end of the year and probably get severely injured just like Kobe.

But honestly there is no need to play these hypotheticals. Duncan just at the level he played last year was great...and definitely on par with Kobe.

Terrible defense vs elite defense
Terrible teammate vs elite teammate


Even in less minutes, Duncan combined to have more rebounds and assists per game than Kobe.

The only difference in the raw stats was ppg. And Kobe scored 9 more points on 6 more shots per game.

Meh...not nearly enough to trump Duncan's far superior defense.


You are the one with the burden of proof. You have to show how it's delusional to take a first team all nba and first team all defense (deserved) that is an excellent teammate and gives you 18/10/3 over a straight up gunner that played far worse defense, was worse on the glass/assists combined...but scored 9 more points on 6 more shots per game.

Glass/assists combined? Are you using this bizarro stat to hide the fact that Kobe averaged 6 apg in 2013? :roll:

Kobe: 27.3 ppg, 57 TS%
Duncan: 17.8ppg 55.4 TS%

Duncan averaged 30 mpg and missed 13 games in 2013, and his team still cruised to 58 wins. That's a testament to how supremely stacked they were. You put TD on a bad team, and give him a larger share of the offense, and his efficiency would PLUMMET. If he can barely muster 55% on a loaded roster, what do you think he'd do with more minutes and more defensive attention?

Kobe was just the better individual player.

[DMAVS41]

Glass/assists combined? Are you using this bizarro stat to hide the fact that Kobe averaged 6 apg in 2013? :roll:

Kobe: 27.3 ppg, 57 TS%
Duncan: 17.8ppg 55.4 TS%

Duncan averaged 30 mpg and missed 13 games in 2013, and his team still cruised to 58 wins. That's a testament to how supremely stacked they were. You put TD on a bad team, and give him a larger share of the offense, and his efficiency would PLUMMET. If he can barely muster 55% on a loaded roster, what do you think he'd do with more minutes and more defensive attention?

Kobe was just the better individual player.

What? Bizarro stat?

Kobe's assists/rebounds are no more impactful than Duncan's.

Duncan averaged more assists/rebounds combined. It's standard.

The difference in the players was Kobe scoring 9 more points per game....and Duncan playing elite defense. I'd take the elite defense and better team play over Kobe's gunner mentality at this point.

Just check the ratings;

Duncan had a 107 ortg and a 95 drtg
Kobe had a 112 ortg and a 107 drtg

Kobe improved his teams offense by around 7 points while on the floor, but he hurt the defense by around 5 points.
Duncan improved his teams offense by around 4 points while on the floor...and improved the defense by around 4 points.

His efficiency would not plummet. Duncan being featured like 5 more times per game is not going to plummet his efficiency. I honestly don't even know if it would impact him...he might get a better rhythm going and again...you are ignoring that Duncan gets to play Kobe level defense. Which means not exerting any energy at all. Yea....Duncan just has no chance to average 24 or 25 a game on 55% TS while not using any energy defensively.

:facepalm

[JebronLames]

2014-Duncan by far

[ThePhantomCreep]

2014-Duncan by far
Only because Kobe barely played. Otherwise, it would have been the same old story since 2006.

[DMAVS41]

Only because Kobe barely played. Otherwise, it would have been the same old story since 2006.

Meh...I'd rather have Duncan in 06 if someone made me choose. I put it as a push on the list to be as objective as possible.

While Kobe was choking against the Suns in the first round....Duncan was putting up 32/12/4 62% TS against the Mavs in the 2nd round.

LOL @ acting like Kobe was on another level in 06.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Meh...I'd rather have Duncan in 06 if someone made me choose. I put it as a push on the list to be as objective as possible.

While Kobe was choking against the Suns in the first round....Duncan was putting up 32/12/4 62% TS against the Mavs in the 2nd round.

LOL @ acting like Kobe was on another level in 06.

Um, Duncan choked against the Mavericks in that game 7 OT, blowing yet another series in which his team had HCA. A team that could (in a recurring theme) play Duncan about 33 mpg and still cruise to 63 wins. Duncan's offense was anemic even by his standards that year (18.6ppg, 52 TS%; Kobe nearly doubled that ppg on better efficiency)

2006 Kobe cakewalks to a title with those Spurs, don't even kid yourself.

[konex]

Kobe Bryant vs. Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=duncati01)

[pastis]

real talk

99-05 is duncan over kobe (well 02 probably kobe)

03-05 dirk with duncan over kobe

05-14 is kobe over duncan

06-11 dirk over duncan and kobe

12-13 kobe over dirk and duncan

13-14 dirk over duncan

[ThePhantomCreep]

What? Bizarro stat?

Kobe's assists/rebounds are no more impactful than Duncan's.

Duncan averaged more assists/rebounds combined. It's standard.

The difference in the players was Kobe scoring 9 more points per game....and Duncan playing elite defense. I'd take the elite defense and better team play over Kobe's gunner mentality at this point.

Just check the ratings;

Duncan had a 107 ortg and a 95 drtg
Kobe had a 112 ortg and a 107 drtg

Kobe improved his teams offense by around 7 points while on the floor, but he hurt the defense by around 5 points.
Duncan improved his teams offense by around 4 points while on the floor...and improved the defense by around 4 points.

His efficiency would not plummet. Duncan being featured like 5 more times per game is not going to plummet his efficiency. I honestly don't even know if it would impact him...he might get a better rhythm going and again...you are ignoring that Duncan gets to play Kobe level defense. Which means not exerting any energy at all. Yea....Duncan just has no chance to average 24 or 25 a game on 55% TS while not using any energy defensively.

:facepalm


Lol, you act like Duncan is Tony Allen out there, nonstop frenetic energy defending the post. He camps in the lane and alters shots that come his way. He plays great help defense. He gets a few boards, and camps in the post waiting for the ball to come to him. If he's doubled he kicks it out. He rests for 1/3 of the game, and hasn't played over 38mpg since his last MVP. So much expended energy!

Kobe arguably works harder over the course of a game just bringing the ball up, setting the table offensively, and chasing perimeter players around (who tend to score a lot more than big men these days) and he still manages to score far more than Duncan on better efficiency. This is not really debatable, yet here you are debating it. Unreal.

[LeBron 06]

Um, Duncan choked against the Mavericks in that game 7 OT, blowing yet another series in which his team had HCA. A team that could (in a recurring theme) play Duncan about 33 mpg and still cruise to 63 wins. Duncan's offense was anemic even by his standards that year (18.6ppg, 52 TS%; Kobe nearly doubled that ppg on better efficiency)

2006 Kobe cakewalks to a title with those Spurs, don't even kid yourself.


choked?????


Duncan had 32 PPG and 11 REB on 56% vs Dallas in 2006

[pastis]

Lol, you act like Duncan is Tony Allen out there, nonstop frenetic energy defending the post. He camps in the lane and alters shots that come his way. He plays great help defense. He gets a few boards, and camps in the post waiting for the ball to come to him. If he's doubled he kicks it out. He rests for 1/3 of the game, and hasn't played over 38mpg since his last MVP. So much expended energy!


oh dude, you are so fvcking right:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[BasedTom]

Duncan x16

Cutting it off at 2012 just because the last 2 years have been disastrously unfavourable for Kobe is a pretty pathetic move by Kobe stans. In these last 2 years Duncan has taken his team to the finals and is on track to do it again.

I'm not using whatever manipulated agenda-driven advanced metric system stats happen to be the flavor of the month. I'm using the eye test. I see an aged Duncan playing as well as a center can deep into the postseason while Kobe puts up empty stats and makes excuses.

[pastis]

choked?????


Duncan had 32 PPG and 11 REB on 56% vs Dallas in 2006

so now easy layups are counted as high FG%?

never ever compare this with shooters hitting tough shots like dirk, pierce, kobe, dunratn:bowdown:

[GODbe]

1998 -Kobe
1999 -Kobe
2000 -Kobe
2001 -Kobe
2002 -Kobe
2003 -Kobe
2004 -Kobe
2005 -Kobe
2006 -Kobe
2007 -Kobe
2008 -Kobe
2009 -Kobe
2010 -Kobe
2011 -Kobe
2012 -Kobe

[ThePhantomCreep]

choked?????


Duncan had 32 PPG and 11 REB on 56% vs Dallas in 2006

In the OT of that game 7, yes.

[Doctor Rivers]

Duncan x16

Cutting it off at 2012 just because the last 2 years have been disastrously unfavourable for Kobe is a pretty pathetic move by Kobe stans. In these last 2 years Duncan has taken his team to the finals and is on track to do it again.

I'm not using whatever manipulated agenda-driven advanced metric system stats happen to be the flavor of the month. I'm using the eye test. I see an aged Duncan playing as well as a center can deep into the postseason while Kobe puts up empty stats and makes excuses.


1998 -Kobe
1999 -Kobe
2000 -Kobe
2001 -Kobe
2002 -Kobe
2003 -Kobe
2004 -Kobe
2005 -Kobe
2006 -Kobe
2007 -Kobe
2008 -Kobe
2009 -Kobe
2010 -Kobe
2011 -Kobe
2012 -Kobe

you guys are cool

[ThePhantomCreep]

Duncan x16

Cutting it off at 2012 just because the last 2 years have been disastrously unfavourable for Kobe is a pretty pathetic move by Kobe stans. In these last 2 years Duncan has taken his team to the finals and is on track to do it again.

I'm not using whatever manipulated agenda-driven advanced metric system stats happen to be the flavor of the month. I'm using the eye test. I see an aged Duncan playing as well as a center can deep into the postseason while Kobe puts up empty stats and makes excuses.
Of course not, homer. Of course not.

As for Duncan's aged awesomeness, dude is averaging 16/8 in the playoffs and his team will likely cruise into the NBA Finals anyway. Pedestrian numbers as always. He can even afford to rest 14 mpg in the playoffs(!!) that's how supremely stacked his team is.

Duncan's old man years are wildly overrated on ISH.

[LeBron 06]

In the OT of that game 7, yes.



If Ginobili would not have made ​​a stupid fault at the end of the game 7, the game would not have been in overtime and I think spurs would have won the title in 2006 if they would have won against Dallas

Duncan had 41 points in game 7

[ArbitraryWater]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Duncan
2013 - Duncan
2014 - Duncan

2012-2014 close. Rest isn't really much to think about.

[Anaximandro1]

1) - Regular Season -> Duncan has the highest winning percentage out of any player of all of the 4 major sports teams in the last 17 years ... and more MVPs than Kobe.


2) - Playoffs -> Duncan has 4 titles as the best player ... and more FMVPs than Kobe.

[B]1998

[pastis]

1) - Regular Season -> Duncan has the highest winning percentage out of any player of all of the 4 major sports teams in the last 17 years ... and more MVPs than Kobe.


2) - Playoffs -> Duncan has 4 titles as the best player ... and more FMVPs than Kobe.



stopped reading at this point. nice joke little junior-high kid:applause: :applause:

duncan since 03 at best since 05 only third best player in his own team. without ginobili, parker, popovic not even close to top 30 all-time. defense way way way overrated. carried in clutch situations by parker and ginobili since at min 10 years. but ok, :applause: :applause:



Lol, you act like Duncan is Tony Allen out there, nonstop frenetic energy defending the post. He camps in the lane and alters shots that come his way. He plays great help defense. He gets a few boards, and camps in the post waiting for the ball to come to him. If he's doubled he kicks it out. He rests for 1/3 of the game, and hasn't played over 38mpg since his last MVP. So much expended energy!

[ThePhantomCreep]

:facepalm @ anyone who thinks Duncan was a better offensive player, ever. Maybe when Kobe was a teenager. Even the years where Duncan's TS% was slightly higher, it's negated by the fact that Kobe scored far more. Some years young Kobe had both numbers over prime Duncan.

2001
Duncan: 22.2 ppg, 53.6 TS%
Kobe: 28.5 ppg, 55.2 TS%

It's one thing to score less; it's quite another to score less and be less efficient doing it.

[ArbitraryWater]

:facepalm @ anyone who thinks Duncan was a better offensive player, ever. Maybe when Kobe was a teenager. Even the years where Duncan's TS% was slightly higher, it's negated by the fact that Kobe scored far more. Some years young Kobe had both numbers over prime Duncan.

2001
Duncan: 22.2 ppg, 53.6 TS%
Kobe: 28.5 ppg, 55.2 TS%

It's one thing to score less; it's quite another to score less and be less efficient doing it.

So basically what LeBron is doing over Kobe? While assisting more? Dat huge offensive gap..

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm a retard

Glad nobody believes that pile of crap :applause: You're probably the only person in the Universe who believes it... sadly for you, nobody will buy the bullshit and he will continue to be ranked top 10... It's one thing to have a controversial opinion, it's another to be totally left alone with it.

Try continue to convince yourself, though :cheers:

[ThePhantomCreep]

So basically what LeBron is doing over Kobe? While assisting more? Dat huge offensive gap..

Stay on topic, LeBron fangirl.

[pastis]

man hating can be so easy. but i just wanna see lebron playing his ass of in the wild west, not for 1 year, but how it would be to play in the west for the whole career. so much tougher in RS and Playoffs of course


even i can make a double double in the east and be a starter for the bucks:applause:

EC joke-conference

[pastis]

Glad nobody believes that pile of crap :applause: You're probably the only person in the Universe who believes it... sadly for you, nobody will buy the bullshit and he will continue to be ranked top 10... It's one thing to have a controversial opinion, it's another to be totally left alone with it.

Try continue to convince yourself, though :cheers:

he is so overrated here and the role of ginobili, parker and pop so fvcking underrated. but in maybe 10-20 or 30 years people will realize, that im right. its the same with wilt. god in his era and now people begin to realize that he was not that good and are critisising him:applause:

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=Anaximandro1]1) - Regular Season -> Duncan has the highest winning percentage out of any player of all of the 4 major sports teams in the last 17 years ... and more MVPs than Kobe.


2) - Playoffs -> Duncan has 4 titles as the best player ... and more FMVPs than Kobe.

[B]1998

[ArbitraryWater]

Stay on topic, LeBron fangirl.

Stay on your logic, friend and brother.

[Heavincent]

lol at calling Kobe top 15. He's obviously top 10.

[Heavincent]

While Kobe was choking against the Suns in the first round....Duncan was putting up 32/12/4 62% TS against the Mavs in the 2nd round.


Choking is hitting two game winning/game tying shots, dropping 50 points, and averaging 28/6/5 on 50% shooting? Just because he lost to a far superior team means he choked?

Enough with the revisionist history. You're better than that.

[DMAVS41]

Choking is hitting two game winning/game tying shots, dropping 50 points, and averaging 28/6/5 on 50% shooting? Just because he lost to a far superior team means he choked?

Enough with the revisionist history. You're better than that.

game 7 doe...

[ArbitraryWater]

game 7 doe...

He didn't choke, he quit.

However, in Game 6, airballing the series winning buzzer beater... now that's a choke. Wasn't even some 30 feet fadeaway 3 or anything. They would have advanced, he couldn't make it.

[DMAVS41]

He didn't choke, he quit.

However, in Game 6, airballing the series winning buzzer beater... now that's a choke. Wasn't even some 30 feet fadeaway 3 or anything. They would have advanced, he couldn't make it.

I agree.

[Heavincent]

game 7 doe...

So what? To say he choked is ridiculous. The 50 point game in game 6 proves there was nothing he could have done to win that series.

Lebron in 11, Kobe in 04, Dirk in 07...those are choke jobs. Kobe putting up good numbers and losing to a much better team in 7 games isn't choking.

[Heavincent]

He didn't choke, he quit.

However, in Game 6, airballing the series winning buzzer beater... now that's a choke. Wasn't even some 30 feet fadeaway 3 or anything. They would have advanced, he couldn't make it.

So he was 2/3 on game winning/tying shots in the series. Still pretty good.

Dropped 50 points and he "choked" :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

So what? To say he choked is ridiculous. The 50 point game in game 6 proves there was nothing he could have done to win that series.

Lebron in 11, Kobe in 04, Dirk in 07...those are choke jobs. Kobe putting up good numbers and losing to a much better team in 7 games isn't choking.

I didn't say he choked the series...just game 7.

Call it whatever you like. His game 7 play in the 2nd half was Lebron 2010 game 5 shit.

[ArbitraryWater]

So he was 2/3 on game winning/tying shots in the series. Still pretty good.

Dropped 50 points and he "choked" :oldlol:

Had 38 at that point... Why did he AIRBALL it?

Choking is defined on that last second shot, not through 3 quarter scoring. However, it was a big game, I'll give him credit... Missing the shot happens, he made 2 already in the series... the only problem I have is the airball part.

[Heavincent]

I didn't say he choked the series...just game 7.

Call it whatever you like. His game 7 play in the 2nd half was Lebron 2010 game 5 shit.

Not really. He still finished the game on 8/16 shooting. Lebron was 3/14 :roll:

Not to mention Lebron did it at a point in which the series was not only winnable, but actually in the Cavs favor. Game 5 at home with the series tied at 2-2...that's not a bad spot to be in. I'm not excusing it, but the Lakers were already down big to a much better team in the second half.

[Heavincent]

Had 38 at that point... Why did he AIRBALL it?

Choking is defined on that last second shot, not through 3 quarter scoring. However, it was a big game, I'll give him credit... Missing the shot happens, he made 2 already in the series... the only problem I have is the airball part.

Why the hell does it matter how he misses? Would it have been better if it hit back rim? A miss is a miss.

You're not making much sense here.

[ArbitraryWater]

Why the hell does it matter how he misses? Would it have been better if it hit back rim? A miss is a miss.

You're not making much sense here.

Airball is missing it pretty bad don't you think? Can't get much worse.

I wouldn't call it choke if it goes in-and-out... you really can't follow me here? Come on, be honest. :cheers:

[DMAVS41]

Not really. He still finished the game on 8/16 shooting. Lebron was 3/14 :roll:

Not to mention Lebron did it at a point in which the series was not only winnable, but actually in the Cavs favor. Game 5 at home with the series tied at 2-2...that's not a bad spot to be in. I'm not excusing it, but the Lakers were already down big to a much better team in the second half.

I said the 2nd half...can you read my posts?

So lets get this straight...the Cavs series was winnable, but the Lakers wasn't?

So the Lakers didn't get up 3-1? ROFL...


Kobe quit/choked....whatever you want to call it. You Kobe fans roasted Lebron for an entire year off that game 5.

Also, imagine what you would say about Lebron if he airballed a series winning shot...LOL

Kobe did the exact same shit in the 2nd half. Only difference was that Lebron was actually facing a better team that played real defense and probably actually was hurt.

Kobe did it for...oh yea...he claims that was the only way he could win.

So why did he gun for 60 in game 6 if the only way you can beat the Suns is to spread it around?

Makes no sense as usual....and once again Kobe fans want their hero to be given a free pass for the game 7 bedwetting performance.


And this is about Duncan...and while Kobe was absolutely not dominating that Suns team and laying an egg in game 7. Duncan was beasting against a better Mavs team and coming up with a far better game 7 than Kobe.

Like I said before, it's really not hard.

Duncan was better from 98 through 07
Kobe was better from 08 through 12
Duncan was better from 13 through 14

Duncan >>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

[T_L_P]

There you go again TLP, sucking on that deaf Duncan Dick.

Kobe's numbers shit on Duncan's in 2013.

And he had to will a dysfunctional Team to the Playoffs.

I only saw any semblance of the old Timmy in the Playoffs, specifically The Finals and he CHOKED in the biggest ways.

They were only there because of Pop, Tony and Kawaii anyway.

Duncan's been done since 08.

You guys get a stiffy at his 18 pts nights. xDD

Alright, Kobe has 2013, Duncan has 2000.

No difference either way.

[DMAVS41]

Alright, Kobe has 2013, Duncan has 2000.

No difference either way.

The difference is that Duncan was a demonstrably better player than Kobe in 00.

In 13 they were basically the same level going into the playoffs.

Duncan doesn't just get 13 by default...he was every bit as good as Kobe...and the playoffs just put him over the hump.

In 00 Duncan was a 23/12/3 56% TS defensive monster and was clearly a better player than Kobe at that point.

[Heavincent]

Like I said before, it's really not hard.

Duncan was better from 98 through 07
Kobe was better from 08 through 12
Duncan was better from 13 through 14

Duncan >>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

01, 02, 06, 07, and 13 are all debatable. I put it like this:

98 Duncan
99 Duncan
00 Duncan
01 Kobe
02 Kobe
03 Duncan
04 Duncan
05 Duncan
06 Kobe
07 Kobe
08 Kobe
09 Kobe
10 Kobe
11 Kobe
12 Kobe
13 Duncan
14 Duncan

It's very close :confusedshrug: Don't know how you could say it's not.

[T_L_P]

I have problems with the bolded. 2002 Kobe eliminated Duncan from the Playoffs in 5 games while putting up 26/5/5 on 46% shooting
2004 Kobe eliminated Duncan from the Playoffs while putting up 26/6/6/2 on 46% shooting
2006 I agree is debatable, but then again despite Duncan putting up monster numbers against Dallas, the Spurs choked on their home floor in OT, that was horrible. Also doesn't help that Dirk outplayed Duncan in that series while not even using his 3-point shot.

2007: Kobe was better than Duncan in the regular season by far, Duncan did win a title, but he was a sidekick to Tony Parker in the Finals while playing like garbage in the last 2 game of the series(shooting 10-32 and 8 TOs combined in Games 3 & 4)

2013: Kobe had his best statistical season since his prime years and carried a bunch of scrubs to the Playoffs, you cited "missed Playoffs" like Kobe didn't drag a lottery team into Playoff position and didn't suffer a near career-ending injury...Duncan did go to the Finals, but he choked bad in Game 7, Duncan and Kobe both had a nightmare season, but in different ways. I could call it a tie to be fair.

Kobe's 4-2 over Duncan in the Playoffs and has had more Playoff success, some of your picks were obviously homer picks and I can't hate you for that, obviously I am a "little" biased myself, but honestly, Kobe's been better or as good as than Duncan for most of his career.

Head-to-head Playoff matchups with Shaq on your team hardly mean much. Duncan annihilates Kobe in the regular season, and he was statistically much better in the postseason. We need to be even here. If we're giving Kobe 2007, then he has no case for 2002. Duncan played 10 less Playoff games (19-9) and still only had 0.6 less Win Shares. Duncan was getting no help that year. Tony Parker was his best player and he put up 13/2/5 against the Lakers whilst shooting 41%

I don't see a case for Kobe in 2004. Duncan had the better regular season, and a better postseason.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duncati01&y1=2004&p2=bryanko01&y2=2004

And if we're giving Kobe 2013, he has no case for 2000.

[ArbitraryWater]

01, 02, 06, 07, and 13 are all debatable. I put it like this:

98 Duncan
99 Duncan
00 Duncan
01 Kobe
02 Kobe
03 Duncan
04 Duncan
05 Duncan
06 Kobe
07 Kobe
08 Kobe
09 Kobe
10 Kobe
11 Kobe
12 Kobe
13 Duncan
14 Duncan

It's very close :confusedshrug: Don't know how you could say it's not.

Kobe and 2002 is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen :banghead: :banghead:

You just admitted to being a total RETARD.

Duncan had the best individual season and carried a shit team to 58 wins.

Led the league in win shares, averaged 25 and 13, sh*t, he was so durable that year he led the league in made field goals!

He led the league in the following: Field Goals Made, Free Throws Made, Rebounds, Minutes Played, PER (27.9)

And somehow made 80% of his FT's, too. That team had no business winning even 45 games, let alone 58.

One of the contenders for unanimous MVP, yet you're sitting here saying Kobe was better...... ohhhh the ignorance. Sweet.

[DMAVS41]

01, 02, 06, 07, and 13 are all debatable. I put it like this:

98 Duncan
99 Duncan
00 Duncan
01 Kobe
02 Kobe
03 Duncan
04 Duncan
05 Duncan
06 Kobe
07 Kobe
08 Kobe
09 Kobe
10 Kobe
11 Kobe
12 Kobe
13 Duncan
14 Duncan

It's very close :confusedshrug: Don't know how you could say it's not.

I was just using broad terms.

In my original post I did it like this.

98/99/00 - Duncan
01- Push
02/03/04/05 - Duncan
06/07 - Push
08/09/10/11/12 - Kobe
13/14 - Duncan

I get 9 for Duncan, 5 for Kobe, and 3 pushes.

I don't think it's very close to be honest who the better player has been this era. It was close 2 years ago in terms of longevity stuff if Kobe had continued to be the better player. I'd still have Duncan higher because of his better prime/peak, but it would then be a lot closer.

But Kobe now not only lost his longevity edge on Duncan, but now Duncan has that over Kobe.

So Duncan has been more durable. Better peak. Better prime. More consistent. Better longevity. Better playoff performer.

And this doesn't even tough some of the absurd things the Spurs/Duncan have done without superstar help like Kobe/Lakers had.

[T_L_P]

Kobe and 2002 is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen :banghead: :banghead:

You just admitted to being a total RETARD.

Duncan had the best individual season and carried a shit team to 58 wins.

Led the league in win shares, averaged 25 and 13, sh*t, he was so durable that year he led the league in made field goals!

He led the league in the following: Field Goals Made, Free Throws Made, Rebounds, Minutes Played, PER (27.9)

And somehow made 80% of his FT's, too. That team had no business winning even 45 games, let alone 58.

One of the contenders for unanimous MVP, yet you're sitting here saying Kobe was better...... ohhhh the ignorance. Sweet.

I actually get 2001. Kobe was ****ing incredible...but 2002?

Duncan in the reg: 26/13/4/3, .576 TS%
Kobe in the reg: 25/6/6/2, .544 TS%

Duncan in the Playoffs: 28/14/5/4, .550 TS%
Kobe in the Playoffs: 27/6/5/1/1, .511 TS%

Duncan played 10 less games (19 to 9, the Spurs actually played 10 games but Duncan missed one due to his father's passing) but only had 0.6 less Win Shares.

Let's see Kobe beat a Shaq/Duncan tandem with rookie Tony Parker, injured David Robinson (missed 6 Playoff games), Bruce Bowen, Steve Smith, Malik Rose, Antonio Daniels, Danny Ferry, Terry Porter.

[ArbitraryWater]

I actually get 2001. Kobe was ****ing incredible...but 2002?

Duncan in the reg: 26/13/4/3, .576 TS%
Kobe in the reg: 25/6/6/2, .544 TS%

Duncan in the Playoffs: 28/14/5/4, .550 TS%
Kobe in the Playoffs: 27/6/5/1/1, .511 TS%

Duncan played 10 less games (19 to 9, the Spurs actually played 10 games but Duncan missed one due to his father's passing) but only had 0.6 less Win Shares.

Let's see Kobe beat a Shaq/Duncan tandem with rookie Tony Parker, injured David Robinson (missed 6 Playoff games), Bruce Bowen, Steve Smith, Malik Rose, Antonio Daniels, Danny Ferry, Terry Porter.


I don't think the guy was even aware of it... probably thought it was just another stacked spurs team.

And we really haven't even considered defense much yet..

[DMAVS41]

I actually get 2001. Kobe was ****ing incredible...but 2002?

Duncan in the reg: 26/13/4/3, .576 TS%
Kobe in the reg: 25/6/6/2, .544 TS%

Duncan in the Playoffs: 28/14/5/4, .550 TS%
Kobe in the Playoffs: 27/6/5/1/1, .511 TS%

Duncan played 10 less games (19 to 9, the Spurs actually played 10 games but Duncan missed one due to his father's passing) but only had 0.6 less Win Shares.

Let's see Kobe beat a Shaq/Duncan tandem with rookie Tony Parker, injured David Robinson (missed 6 Playoff games), Bruce Bowen, Steve Smith, Malik Rose, Antonio Daniels, Danny Ferry, Terry Porter.

It's hard for them because they started watching Duncan in 08.

[IGOTGAME]

I have Duncan over Kobe, Bird and Magic. He is in my top 5 all time.

[aboss4real24]

BG>TD

[T_L_P]

BG>TD

Blake at 24 in the Playoffs: 23.5 / 7.5 / 3.8 / 1.2 / 1.1

Duncan at 24 in the Playoffs: 24.4 / 14.5 / 3.8 / 1.1 / 2.7

:roll:

[T_L_P]

I have Duncan over Kobe, Bird and Magic. He is in my top 5 all time.

Nice. :applause:

Bird can definitely be argued as the better talent (though I'd slightly disagree), but Duncan's longevity puts him over Bird.

In their prime they are both comparable, but then you get an extra 6 years of Duncan (or it might be more, I forget how many years Bird played).

[aboss4real24]

Blake at 24 in the Playoffs: 23.5 / 7.5 / 3.8 / 1.2 / 1.1

Duncan at 24 in the Playoffs: 24.4 / 14.5 / 3.8 / 1.1 / 2.7

:roll:


so the only thing he did was rebound substantially better ? big deal

[LeBron 06]

so the only thing he did was rebound substantially better ? big deal


and defense and winning

[T_L_P]

so the only thing he did was rebound substantially better ? big deal

Well, considering the fact he put up superior stats at a much slower pace, I'd say he did everything better. :roll:

[SuperPippen]

Revised list:

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Kobe
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe
2013 - Duncan
2014 - Duncan

[T_L_P]

http://media.theweek.com/img/generic/biden-debate-ryan.gif

Didn't we go through the years the other day and you agreed with them (2002, 2004, etc).

What years are clearly in Kobe's favour? If you say 2013, then you have to give Duncan 2000, because both missed the Playoffs. If you give Kobe 2002 because of his Playoff run (which wasn't nearly as good as Duncan's but he won the ring), you have to give Duncan 2007.

2006 is the only year on my list that could be given to Kobe.

[Ne 1]

1998- Tim Duncan
1999- Tim Duncan
2000- Tim Duncan
2001- Toss up (I'd give a slight edge to Kobe after the playoffs.)
2002- Toss up
2003- Tim Duncan (Phenomenal year from Kobe though, the best season of his career to that point, but I give the advantage to Duncan after the playoffs)
2004- Tim Duncan
2005- Tim Duncan
2006- Kobe Bryant
2007- Kobe Bryant (Kobe was the best player in the game this year IMO, not as clearly as he was in '06 since I don't think he was quite as good, though he was close. Duncan does have a case in hindsight, but I'm sticking with what I thought back then.)
2008- Kobe Bryant
2009- Kobe Bryant
2010- Kobe Bryant
2011- Kobe Bryant
2012- Kobe Bryant
2013- Kobe Bryant
2014- Tim Duncan (by default)

[T_L_P]

1998- Tim Duncan
1999- Tim Duncan
2000- Tim Duncan
2001- Toss up (I'd give a slight edge to Kobe after the playoffs.)
2002- Toss up
2003- Tim Duncan (Phenomenal year from Kobe though, the best season of his career to that point, but I give the advantage to Duncan after the playoffs)
2005- Tim Duncan
2006- Kobe Bryant
2007- Kobe Bryant (Kobe was the best player in the game this year IMO, not as clearly as he was in '06 since I don't think he was quite as good, though he was close. Duncan does have a case in hindsight, but I'm sticking with what I thought back then.)
2008- Kobe Bryant
2009- Kobe Bryant
2010- Kobe Bryant
2011- Kobe Bryant
2012- Kobe Bryant
2013- Kobe Bryant
20014- Tim Duncan (by default)

Can I ask why you think Kobe is equal to Duncan in '02, especially considering that you put him over Duncan in '07?

[DFish24]

1998- Duncan
1999- Duncan
2000- Duncan
2001- Kobe
2002- Kobe
2003- Kobe
2004- Duncan
2005- Duncan
2006- Kobe
2007- Kobe
2008- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2010- Kobe
2011- Kobe
2012- Kobe
2013- Kobe
2014-Duncan(Would be Kobe if he wasn't injured)

[SuperPippen]

1998- Duncan
1999- Duncan
2000- Duncan
2001- Kobe
2002- Kobe
2003- Kobe
2004- Duncan
2005- Duncan
2006- Kobe
2007- Kobe
2008- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2010- Kobe
2011- Kobe
2012- Kobe
2013- Kobe
2014-Duncan(Would be Kobe if he wasn't injured)


One of the worst lists in this thread.

[T_L_P]

1998- Duncan
1999- Duncan
2000- Duncan
2001- Kobe
2002- Kobe
2003- Kobe
2004- Duncan
2005- Duncan
2006- Kobe
2007- Kobe
2008- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2010- Kobe
2011- Kobe
2012- Kobe
2013- Kobe
2014-Duncan(Would be Kobe if he wasn't injured)

:facepalm

How can have Kobe over Duncan in 2002 and 2003? If you choose Kobe for 2002, it's because he won the 'ship (Duncan was far better statistically), therefore you'd have to do the same for Duncan in 2003 (he won it all and was better statistically).

There's bias and there's clear homer picks.

[sportsfan76]

Nice. :applause:

Bird can definitely be argued as the better talent (though I'd slightly disagree), but Duncan's longevity puts him over Bird.

In their prime they are both comparable, but then you get an extra 6 years of Duncan (or it might be more, I forget how many years Bird played).


1979-92 but the 1988-92 era was the low point of his career. So you would only focus on 1979-87

[Ne 1]

Can I ask why you think Kobe is equal to Duncan in '02, especially considering that you put him over Duncan in '07?

It's close. I'd probably go with Duncan at #2 and Kobe at #3 that year overall. If you want to give the edge to Duncan for an MVP season, that's fine, but Kobe was superb in the playoffs and Finals so I can see giving the edge to him. That's why it's a toss up IMO, especially considering that Kobe was the MVP of the Spurs series in '02. Shaq was actually injured in that series iirc which was the reason for his low offensive output, and the Lakers would have lost that series if it weren't for Kobe's fourth quarter play in the last 3 games. Shaq was the MVP of the Finals, but Kobe had perhaps the best Finals performance not be awarded MVP in a winning effort besides Kareem in 1980.

[T_L_P]

Objectively speaking...

1998- Duncan
1999- Duncan
2000- Duncan
2001- Kobe
2002- Kobe
2003- Duncan
2004- Duncan
2005- Duncan
2006- Kobe
2007- Kobe
2008- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2010- Kobe
2011- Kobe
2012- Kobe
2013- Kobe
2014-Duncan

Tim Duncan - 7
Kobe Bryant - 10


This seems about right.

2002:

Duncan in the reg: 26/13/4/3, .576 TS%
Kobe in the reg: 25/6/6/2, .544 TS%

Duncan in the Playoffs: 28/14/5/4, .550 TS%
Kobe in the Playoffs: 27/6/5/1/1, .511 TS%

Duncan played 10 less games (19 to 9, the Spurs actually played 10 games but Duncan missed one due to his father's passing) but only had 0.6 less Win Shares.

Let's see Kobe beat a Shaq/Duncan tandem with rookie Tony Parker, injured David Robinson (missed 6 Playoff games), Bruce Bowen, Steve Smith, Malik Rose, Antonio Daniels, Danny Ferry, Terry Porter.

You're saying peak Tim Duncan was less valuable than a regressing Kobe (he was nowhere near as good as he was in '01, though he was still obvious a beast)?

[Ne 1]

2002:

You're saying peak Tim Duncan was less valuable than a regressing Kobe (he was nowhere near as good as he was in '01, though he was still obvious a beast)?


I wouldn't say he regressed that year. He made his first All-NBA first team, he won another championship, finished 5th in MVP voting (which marked his first top 5 finish) and he made the All-Defensive second team. His regular season was very good, although forgettable by his standards (only one 40+ point game), and maybe his playoff moments are forgotten due to how hard of an act 2001 was to follow and the fact that the Nets series is probably the most forgettable Finals in recent years.

[Doctor Rivers]

2002:

Duncan in the reg: 26/13/4/3, .576 TS%
Kobe in the reg: 25/6/6/2, .544 TS%

Duncan in the Playoffs: 28/14/5/4, .550 TS%
Kobe in the Playoffs: 27/6/5/1/1, .511 TS%

Duncan played 10 less games (19 to 9, the Spurs actually played 10 games but Duncan missed one due to his father's passing) but only had 0.6 less Win Shares.

Let's see Kobe beat a Shaq/Duncan tandem with rookie Tony Parker, injured David Robinson (missed 6 Playoff games), Bruce Bowen, Steve Smith, Malik Rose, Antonio Daniels, Danny Ferry, Terry Porter.

You're saying peak Tim Duncan was less valuable than a regressing Kobe (he was nowhere near as good as he was in '01, though he was still obvious a beast)?

Give it up

[T_L_P]

I wouldn't say he regressed that year. He made his first All-NBA first team, he won another championship, finished 5th in MVP voting (which marked his first top 5 finish) and he made the All-Defensive second team. His regular season was very good, although forgettable by his standards (only one 40+ point game), and maybe his playoff moments are forgotten due to how hard of an act 2001 was to follow and the fact that the Nets series is probably the most forgettable Finals in recent years.

I'm mainly referring to the Playoffs here. His regular season was only slightly worse than his '01 one, but imo he took a big step back in the Playoffs.

He went from 29/7/6 on .555 TS% in '01 to 27/6/5 on .511 TS% in '02, and his defense was beginning to falter.

I just think in '02 Duncan was the most valuable player in the league. You look at his roster, and although I'm sure people who weren't really paying attention to Duncan back then will call it stacked, it was pretty pathetic. Rookie Tony Parker, broken-down David Robinson, Bruce Bowen (yet to come into his own imo), Steve Smith, Antonio Daniels, Malik Rose, Terry Porter, Danny Ferry, etc. He didn't have a clear number 2 (the reality is Tony Parker would have been the 4th man on the Lakers), yet he still managed to get 58 wins, and make a solid Playoff run. Duncan's shot was off against the Lakers, but who else did they need to worry about? Parker shot 41% in the series, and no-one else was a scoring threat (Bowen 9 PPG, Robinson 6, Rose 9, Smith 8).

That's just me, but I'm surprised at the amount of people putting Kobe over Duncan in '02, when he was better statistically and he had a lot less to work with.

[tpols]

It's funny how on GOAT lists people take Duncan without thinking but when you break it down year for year they're neck and neck

[T_L_P]

It's funny how on GOAT lists people take Duncan without thinking but when you break it down year for year they're neck and neck

People take Kobe without thinking too :confusedshrug:

And in fairness, it's much harder to weigh intangibles season-by-season. I can't really compare, say, Kobe's and Duncan's defense in 2001, because I don't remember that much of it. But I can say over the course of their careers Duncan had a much bigger defensive impact.

[DMAVS41]

It's funny how on GOAT lists people take Duncan without thinking but when you break it down year for year they're neck and neck

Kobe is one of the 11 or so best players ever.

It's not like there is going to be a massive gap between him and really anyone on those lists other than guys like MJ/Russell/Kareem for most people.

But it's really not that close year by year.

98 through 00 - Duncan was clearly the better player
01 - Push
02 - This was clearly Duncan again...I have no idea what people are smoking concerning this year. It would be like currently saying that Chris Paul or Blake Griffin are better than Durant or Lebron.
03 through 05 - Duncan again
06 and 07 - I personally would take Duncan slightly, but willing to call it a push
08 through 12 - Clearly Kobe
13 - Duncan or push (generous)
14 - Duncan

That is at least 8 for Duncan...5 for Kobe. The rest pushes.

Not only that, but Duncan was more durable and consistent, a better teammate on and off the floor, had a better peak, and was a better playoff performer.

Depends on how you define close, but not really seeing it at this point now that Kobe actually has worse durability and longevity.

And that is with Kobe spending the early part of his career carrying far less of a burden than Duncan did.

[tpols]

Kobe is one of the 11 or so best players ever.

It's not like there is going to be a massive gap between him and really anyone on those lists other than guys like MJ/Russell/Kareem for most people.

But it's really not that close year by year.

98 through 00 - Duncan was clearly the better player
01 - Push
02 - This was clearly Duncan again...I have no idea what people are smoking concerning this year. It would be like currently saying that Chris Paul or Blake Griffin are better than Durant or Lebron.
03 through 05 - Duncan again
06 and 07 - I personally would take Duncan slightly, but willing to call it a push
08 through 12 - Clearly Kobe
13 - Duncan or push (generous)
14 - Duncan

That is at least 8 for Duncan...5 for Kobe. The rest pushes.

Not only that, but Duncan was more durable and consistent, a better teammate on and off the floor, had a better peak, and was a better playoff performer.

Depends on how you define close, but not really seeing it at this point now that Kobe actually has worse durability and longevity.

And that is with Kobe spending the early part of his career carrying far less of a burden than Duncan did.

06 and 07 are absolutely kobe.. he just didnt have the team to compete. Pop even called kobe the best in 06.. while coaching duncan. There was no debate back then. So its 98-00, 02-05 for duncan and 06-12 for Kobe.. with Kobe getting 01 for obliterating the spurs in the playoffs(and everyone else) while still maintaining a strong regular season performance. So really it's 8 to 7 for kobe...

If you skim through this thread youll see the consensus opinion has it as a draw or kobe actually winning.. he was right there with duncan in the early 2000s, and then blew him away in the latter part of the decade. Kobe was closer to duncan 02 through 05 than duncan was to kobe in 08 through 12.. not close.

You have duncan top 2/3 all time though.. so you clearly overrate him a bit.

[T_L_P]

06 and 07 are absolutely kobe.. he just didnt have the team to compete. Pop even called kobe the best in 06.. while coaching duncan. There was no debate back then. So its 98-00, 02-05 for duncan and 06-12 for Kobe.. with Kobe getting 01 for obliterating the spurs in the playoffs(and everyone else) while still maintaining a strong regular season performance. So really it's 8 to 7 for kobe...

If you skim through this thread youll see the consensus opinion has it as a draw or kobe actually winning.. he was right there with duncan in the early 2000s, and then blew him away in the latter part of the decade. Kobe was closer to duncan 02 through 05 than duncan was to kobe in 08 through 12.. not close.

You have duncan top 2/3 all time though.. so you clearly overrate him a bit.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9737657#post9737657

It's not a fact that Kobe was better than Duncan in '07. :confusedshrug:

[pastis]

give me duncans supporting cast all day over every supporting cast since MJ. easy money, easy money with this supporting cast.

i mean just give dirk an old robinson averaging 15/10/3 blocks and win it all 99 dude. easy money.

[DMAVS41]

06 and 07 are absolutely kobe.. he just didnt have the team to compete. Pop even called kobe the best in 06.. while coaching duncan. There was no debate back then. So its 98-00, 02-05 for duncan and 06-12 for Kobe.. with Kobe getting 01 for obliterating the spurs in the playoffs(and everyone else) while still maintaining a strong regular season performance. So really it's 8 to 7 for kobe...

If you skim through this thread youll see the consensus opinion has it as a draw or kobe actually winning.. he was right there with duncan in the early 2000s, and then blew him away in the latter part of the decade. Kobe was closer to duncan 02 through 05 than duncan was to kobe in 08 through 12.. not close.

You have duncan top 2/3 all time though.. so you clearly overrate him a bit.


I have Duncan 4th...but that isn't relevant here.

06 and 07 are clearly Kobe? Just no.

They are a push....with a slight edge to Duncan if anything.

And I think you really under-rate Duncan in 08....

But it doesn't matter because Duncan blows Kobe out of the water from 98 through 00.

You are really making this way too difficult;

Duncan had the better peak. The better prime. And better longevity to date. He's won with less help and he's been a better teammate/leader on and off the floor.

Why does Kobe deserve to be ranked with Duncan all time? 3 of Kobe's rings are 2nd fiddle rings. He has an utterly meaningless ring in 00 for a superstar player in which he could have not played in the finals and still seen the Lakers win.

Duncan was an elite force in this league from 98 through 08...and then has aged about as well as possible from 09 to present.

But going year by year if you really want me to just not be generous.

98-00 - Duncan
01 - Push/Duncan
02-05 - Duncan
06/07 - Push/Duncan
08-12 - Kobe
13/14 - Duncan

Also, why was Kobe better than Duncan in 06? Could you explain that to me. Why Duncan was able to play far better in the playoffs and not crumble up 3-1 in a series and actually play well in a game 7. Stuff like that matters...and when one guy is dropping 40 plus in a game 7 and the other is refusing to shoot while his team crumbles....it matters.

Peak. Prime. Longevity.

All go to Duncan.

And the resume is better now as well. 4 titles, 3 fmvps, 2 mvps....and he was the best player on each finals team.

That is 9 vs Kobe's 5 titles, 2 fmvp's, 1 mvp...

9 vs 8...and that doesn't even do it justice because Kobe got at least 1 free title playing with Shaq in 00...probably two in all honesty.

Like I said before, the hope for Kobe in this comparison was that he continued to be better in 13 and 14. That would have at least made it more interesting...although I'd still take Duncan as longevity doesn't quite mean as much to me as it does to others. But Duncan had a huge bounce back year last year and was every bit as good as Kobe and then actually carried it through to the playoffs. So he wins 13 and 14....

Poll anyone in the world that knows the game and ask them who you'd rather have from 98 through 07 and it's going to be Duncan.

And I still think you really under-rate Duncan from 08 through 10. He was easily good enough to play the "Kobe role" on the 3 peat lakers next to an all time great player at his peak. You really think Duncan from 08 through 10 wasn't capable of winning titles with a player like peak Shaq on his team?

That is the part everyone ignores. Kobe got a nice 8 year stretch of his career playing with peak Shaq. Duncan never had anything remotely close to that.

[Milbuck]

I have Duncan 4th...but that isn't relevant here.

06 and 07 are clearly Kobe? Just no.

They are a push....with a slight edge to Duncan if anything.

And I think you really under-rate Duncan in 08....

But it doesn't matter because Duncan blows Kobe out of the water from 98 through 00.

You are really making this way too difficult;

Duncan had the better peak. The better prime. And better longevity to date. He's won with less help and he's been a better teammate/leader on and off the floor.

Why does Kobe deserve to be ranked with Duncan all time? 3 of Kobe's rings are 2nd fiddle rings. He has an utterly meaningless ring in 00 for a superstar player in which he could have not played in the finals and still seen the Lakers win.

Duncan was an elite force in this league from 98 through 08...and then has aged about as well as possible from 09 to present.

But going year by year if you really want me to just not be generous.

98-00 - Duncan
01 - Push/Duncan
02-05 - Duncan
06/07 - Push/Duncan
08-12 - Kobe
13/14 - Duncan

Also, why was Kobe better than Duncan in 06? Could you explain that to me. Why Duncan was able to play far better in the playoffs and not crumble up 3-1 in a series and actually play well in a game 7. Stuff like that matters...and when one guy is dropping 40 plus in a game 7 and the other is refusing to shoot while his team crumbles....it matters.

Peak. Prime. Longevity.

All go to Duncan.

And the resume is better now as well. 4 titles, 3 fmvps, 2 mvps....and he was the best player on each finals team.

That is 9 vs Kobe's 5 titles, 2 fmvp's, 1 mvp...

9 vs 8...and that doesn't even do it justice because Kobe got at least 1 free title playing with Shaq in 00...probably two in all honesty.
2006/2007 Kobe was absolutely the better overall individual player. He was consistently the focus of the opposing defense every single day, and was covered with absolute shit teammates...while Duncan was playing with a FMVP caliber Tony Parker, prime Manu, one of the best perimeter defenders of his generation in Bowen, and IMO the GOAT coach. If you don't understand the wear of playing as the singular (and Odom, I guess) offensively capable player, I don't know what to tell you. Of course Duncan was a phenomenal player that year, but do you seriously think the Spurs aren't winning it all in 2007 (and really 2006 as well) with absolute peak Kobe? Start Oberto at PF with Horry backing him up, and put Kobe at the 3 with Manu at the 2. Or start Kobe at the 2 and let Manu run the bench unit, and have Kobe slide to the 3 to close out games. They would've had a lineup of:

Parker/Van Exel/Udrih
Ginobili/Kobe/Barry
Kobe/Bowen/Finley
Oberto/Horry
Nesterovic/Mohammed

That team is winning it all. At least one year in 2006 and 2007, if not both.

Who cares if Kobe was a second fiddle for those 3 rings? Are you suggesting that Duncan wouldn't have second fiddle?

Literally the only guy in the history of the NBA who wouldn't have played second fiddle to peak Shaq from 2000-2002 is prime Jordan. Even then, it's debatable.

In 2000 before his ankle injury in game 2 of the finals, Kobe was putting up 22/4/5/2/2 on 54% TS for the playoffs. How in the hell is that utterly meaningless? You understand that they don't beat Portland in the conference finals without Kobe, right? Unless you want to view that whole championship season on the finals, ONE series, ignoring that they wouldn't have even been there without Kobe. He put up 25/11/7/4 in game 7, a game where Shaq struggled with 18/9/5.

In the 2001 playoffs, Kobe put up 29/7/6/2/1 on 56% TS. That's as good a run as almost any of Duncan's. And yet he was a second fiddle, so I guess that doesn't count for much, right? And he also trashed Duncan's Spurs in the conference finals and arguably outplayed Shaq, putting up 33/7/7/2/1 on 57% TS to Shaq's 27/13/3/1/1 on 55% TS. This all against Duncan himself, and the Spurs who were a better team than the Sixers they faced in the finals.

In 2002, Kobe once again played well against Duncan and the Spurs for 26/5/5/1 on 50% TS. In the finals he put up 27/6/5/2/1 on 62% TS.

Kobe was no doubt a second fiddle. But using that to prop up Duncan is just absurd considering that Duncan would've been a second fiddle without a doubt as well, and that some of Kobe's series in there were just as good as Duncan's best. And let's not forget that Kobe also shat on Duncan's Spurs twice in that 3-peat. Even the year they lost to the Spurs in 2003, Kobe put up 32/5/4/1 on 53% TS.

You go through these long, elaborate lectures but you yourself simplify a hell of lot. Propping up Duncan by vaguely dismissing Kobe's first 3 rings as "second fiddle rings"? Really?

[T_L_P]

give me duncans supporting cast all day over every supporting cast since MJ. easy money, easy money with this supporting cast.

i mean just give dirk an old robinson averaging 15/10/3 blocks and win it all 99 dude. easy money.

Yeah, an 8 PPG Dirk is winning with Robinson in '99. Get the **** out of here you troll. Even the most delusional Dirk fan wouldn't give him '99.

Also, I know you might want Duncan's supporting cast over anyone else's, but that's because of your agenda. You are literally of incapable of explaining why it's the best supporting cast. Just a bunch of conjecture about '1-2 feet buckets' (which I've disproved many times) and clutch situations.

You called Duncan's help stacked. I listed all the greats Shaq played with, and you couldn't respond, because that's what trolls do. How is past-his-prime David Robinson, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili and a bunch of role players better than Penny, Scott, Wade, LeBron, Nash, Garnett, Pierce, Allen and a bunch of other key pieces (guys like Eddie Jones and Nick Anderson)?

Just :facepalm

[SamuraiSWISH]

Duncan homers should actually be humbled at the results:

'98: Duncan
'99: Duncan
'00: Duncan
'01: Kobe
'02: Duncan
'03: Tie
'04: Duncan
'05: Duncan
'06: Kobe
'07: Kobe
'08: Kobe
'09: Kobe
'10: Kobe
'11: Kobe
'12: Kobe
'13: Kobe

[T_L_P]

Duncan homers should actually be humbled at the results:

'98: Duncan
'99: Duncan
'00: Duncan
'01: Kobe
'02: Duncan
'03: Tie
'04: Duncan
'05: Duncan
'06: Kobe
'07: Kobe
'08: Kobe
'09: Kobe
'10: Kobe
'11: Kobe
'12: Kobe
'13: Kobe

How does Kobe get '01 if there's a tie in '03?

Kobe '01 reg: 29/6/5/2/1, .552 TS%, 24.5 PER
Duncan '01 reg: 22/13/3/1/2, .536 TS%, 23.8 PER

Kobe '01 Playoffs: 29/7/6/2/1, .555 TS%, 25.0 PER
Duncan '01 Playoffs: 24/15/4/1/3, .531 TS%, 25.4 PER

I give Kobe that year, especially considering he won the ring.

Kobe '03 reg: 30/7/6/2/1, .550 TS%, 26.2 PER
Duncan '03 reg: 23/13/4/1/3, .564 TS%, 26.9 PER

Kobe '03 Playoffs: 32/5/5/1/0, .531 TS%, 22.2 PER
Duncan '03 Playoffs: 25/15/5/1/3, .577 TS%, 28.4 PER

The '01 and '03 situations are nearly identical. Kobe was better in '01, Duncan was better in '03.

[SamuraiSWISH]

How does Kobe get '01 if there's a tie in '03?

Kobe '01 reg: 29/6/5/2/1, .552 TS%, 24.5 PER
Duncan '01 reg: 22/13/3/1/2, .536 TS%, 23.8 PER

Kobe '01 Playoffs: 29/7/6/2/1, .555 TS%, 25.0 PER
Duncan '01 Playoffs: 24/15/4/1/3, .531 TS%, 25.4 PER

I give Kobe that year, especially considering he won the ring.

Kobe '03 reg: 30/7/6/2/1, .550 TS%, 26.2 PER
Duncan '03 reg: 23/13/4/1/3, .564 TS%, 26.9 PER

Kobe '03 Playoffs: 32/5/5/1/0, .531 TS%, 22.2 PER
Duncan '03 Playoffs: 25/15/5/1/3, .577 TS%, 28.4 PER

The '01 and '03 situations are nearly identical. Kobe was better in '01, Duncan was better in '03.
You're creating a pissy pants stink over ONE season. The rest are definitive, and Kobe has quite handily been better in many of the seasons. I think it's pretty funny how Spurs stans, and Kobe haters act like Duncan blows Kobe out of the water. Then you see something like this truly breaking down.

[T_L_P]

You're creating a pissy pants stink over ONE season. The rest are definitive, and Kobe has quite handily been better in many of the seasons. I think it's pretty funny how Spurs stans, and Kobe haters act like Duncan blows Kobe out of the water. Then you see something like this truly breaking down.

The ****? I was simply pointing out why Kobe wasn't better than Duncan in that particular year. You can think Kobe was handily better in various other seasons (I don't necessarily agree but whatever), but I simply wanted to know why you thought the two were equal that year, especially when you put him over Duncan in '01 for what I assume are the same reasons.

Also, I do think Duncan is clearly better than Kobe. A season-by-season breakdown doesn't change that. I can't compare their defense in 2001 because I don't remember how good they played. And I can't exactly say Duncan was ahead of Kobe in 2007 because he had no ego: that's something that goes into the whole equation of judging a player.

:facepalm

[Anaximandro1]

Again, Duncan is the superior playoff performer during the vast majority of their careers.


1998 - 2007 -> Duncan is vastly superior to Kobe


Tim has the superior offensive stats, for crying out loud.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8eyjIlLMib0/U3h_ZqzeWkI/AAAAAAAAC28/0iAX8lQt5q8/s1600/14.jpg



2008 - 2012 -> Kobe is considerably better than Tim.

The NBA and its rules had changed, Duncan turned 32, Kobe had matured ...

ORtg is useless because they have different usage rates. Kobe dominates PER and TS% (Duncan only played 5 games in 2008-09 ... explains his PER)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1WWM4NOh7NM/U3h_Zuh7MaI/AAAAAAAAC3I/D_OcB16C-9s/s1600/15.jpg



2013 - 2014 -> Duncan wins by default.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DfSs2NvL6Xc/U3h_ZvkZ71I/AAAAAAAAC24/yamzOsfrIcw/s1600/16.jpg


Excluding the five year period (2008 - 2012) , Duncan always gives you a better chance of winning the NBA championship .

Tim won 4 rings without an All NBA teammate, has more MVP and FMVPs ...

Duncan + prime Shaq would have won 6 straight championships (1999 - 2004)

[ArbitraryWater]

I just don't see how people can put Kobe over Duncan in 2002, or call it "toss up/push/wash/equal/draw/tie" or whatever...

Again


Kobe and 2002 is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen :banghead:

Duncan had the best individual season and carried a shit team to 58 wins.

Led the league in win shares, averaged 25 and 13, sh*t, he was so durable that year he led the league in made field goals!

He led the league in the following: Field Goals Made, Free Throws Made, Rebounds, Minutes Played, PER (27.9)

And somehow made 80% of his FT's, too. That team had no business winning even 45 games, let alone 58.

One of the contenders for unanimous MVP, while Kobe had himself another 43% shooting post-season, yet you're sitting here saying Kobe was better...... ohhhh the ignorance. Sweet.

[T_L_P]

I just don't see how people can put Kobe over Duncan in 2002, or call it "toss up/push/wash/equal/draw/tie" or whatever...

Again

Exactly! And these are the same people that are putting him over Duncan in 2007. There's no consistency there.

[DMAVS41]

You're creating a pissy pants stink over ONE season. The rest are definitive, and Kobe has quite handily been better in many of the seasons. I think it's pretty funny how Spurs stans, and Kobe haters act like Duncan blows Kobe out of the water. Then you see something like this truly breaking down.

It's all semantics.

It just depends on how you look at it. Duncan has been quite handily better in many seasons now as well. One big thing is that people are under-rating 08 Duncan. He wasn't as good as Kobe, but he was still great and was a beast.

Kobe was bette from 08 through 12, but lests not act like Kobe didn't dip noticeably after 10.

And again, Duncan came into the league elite. He was a championship first option from the jump.

Kobe didn't become a championship first option until year 5 of his career.

[SuperPippen]

There is absolutely no case at all for putting Kobe ahead of Duncan in any pre-2006 season, with the SOLE EXCEPTION of 2001.

That is the only year that is debatable, and I would rank it in Kobe's favor.

[ImKobe]

How does Kobe get '01 if there's a tie in '03?

Kobe '01 reg: 29/6/5/2/1, .552 TS%, 24.5 PER
Duncan '01 reg: 22/13/3/1/2, .536 TS%, 23.8 PER

Kobe '01 Playoffs: 29/7/6/2/1, .555 TS%, 25.0 PER
Duncan '01 Playoffs: 24/15/4/1/3, .531 TS%, 25.4 PER

I give Kobe that year, especially considering he won the ring.

Kobe '03 reg: 30/7/6/2/1, .550 TS%, 26.2 PER
Duncan '03 reg: 23/13/4/1/3, .564 TS%, 26.9 PER

Kobe '03 Playoffs: 32/5/5/1/0, .531 TS%, 22.2 PER
Duncan '03 Playoffs: 25/15/5/1/3, .577 TS%, 28.4 PER

The '01 and '03 situations are nearly identical. Kobe was better in '01, Duncan was better in '03.

01 should be Kobe's because he matched prime Shaq's production and had the most dominant Playoff run in NBA history, while Duncan's run in 03 was impressive given the supporting cast (that did actually perform well in key stretches), it doesn't match what Kobe did in 01. Kobe was better than Duncan both in the regular season and the Playoffs in 01 while Duncan was only better than Kobe in the post-season in 03, when he also beat Kobe in a series, like Kobe beat Duncan in 01(01 series was one-sided, with Kobe dropping 45-10-3 in Duncan's house).

[ArbitraryWater]

01 should be Kobe's because he matched prime Shaq's production and had the most dominant Playoff run in NBA history, while Duncan's run in 03 was impressive given the supporting cast (that did actually perform well in key stretches), it doesn't match what Kobe did in 01. Kobe was better than Duncan both in the regular season and the Playoffs in 01 while Duncan was only better than Kobe in the post-season in 03, when he also beat Kobe in a series, like Kobe beat Duncan in 01(01 series was one-sided, with Kobe dropping 45-10-3 in Duncan's house).

http://6q4u.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/bullshit_detected.jpeg%3Fw%3D640

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJXmIaqCUAA1cQ_.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNyqAnGCIAE4dmT.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaSspM4CUAAS3io.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

http://6q4u.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/bullshit_detected.jpeg%3Fw%3D640

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJXmIaqCUAA1cQ_.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNyqAnGCIAE4dmT.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaSspM4CUAAS3io.jpg



kobes 30/7/6 playoff run in 2001 > anthing duncans ever done period.. get a clue.. fisher said kobe shoulda been mvp

[Carbine]

If we're gonna play the stat game, Tim did:

25/15.5/5.3 assists and 3.3 blocks per game on better shooting percentages.

Is 5 more points and 0.8 assists per game worth more than 8 rebounds and 2.5 blocks and better percentages?

[SexSymbol]

98 - duncan
99 - duncan
00 - duncan
01 - Kobe
02 - Kobe
03 - Duncan
04 - Duncan
05 - Duncan
06 - Kobe
07 - Kobe
08 - Kobe
09 - Kobe
10 - Kobe
11 - Kobe
12 - Kobe
13 - Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

If we're gonna play the stat game, Tim did:

25/15.5/5.3 assists and 3.3 blocks per game on better shooting percentages.

Is 5 more points and 0.8 assists per game worth more than 8 rebounds and 2.5 blocks and better percentages?


it is when its an all time record 15-1 ... 30/7/6 average ( with the 3 undefeated series coming against the best competition in the nba while kobes going off for 35 a night during that span... while raping duncan himself )

[LeBron 06]

it is when its an all time record 15-1 ... 30/7/6 average ( with the 3 undefeated series coming against the best competition in the nba while kobes going off for 35 a night during that span... while raping duncan himself )



Kobe has been unbelievable in 2001, but the lakers would not have been 15-1 without Shaq (and also without Kobe)


LeBron was better in 2009 than Kobe in 2001, but he has not won since his teammates has not play well against Orlando

[SexSymbol]

Kobe has been unbelievable in 2001, but the lakers would not have been 15-1 without Shaq (and also without Kobe)


LeBron was better in 2009 than Kobe in 2001, but he has not won since his teammates has not play well against Orlando
Definitely not, whole different universe defensively.
LeBron did nothing defensively in ORL series, that is what cost them the series. He also shot too much, destroyed the flow of the offense. The stats were great tho

[LeBron 06]

Definitely not, whole different universe defensively.
LeBron did nothing defensively in ORL series, that is what cost them the series. He also shot too much, destroyed the flow of the offense. The stats were great tho



The reason why the cavs lost, it was because the cavs were not able to contain Howard...When the cavs doubled Howard, Magic was on fire in 3 points


The offense was not the problem in this series, even if the entire team except LeBron was bad in this series

You can blame LeBron for 2010 and 2011, but in 2009, he was a beast

[SexSymbol]

The reason why the cavs lost, it was because the cavs were not able to contain Howard...When the cavs doubled Howard, Magic was on fire in 3 points


The offense was not the problem in this series, even if the entire team except LeBron was bad in this series

You can blame LeBron for 2010 and 2011, but in 2009, he was a beast
He was very good, but tends to get overrated when people compare him to 01 Kobe, or even 09 Kobe.
His atrocious defense just doesn't hold a candle to either of those Kobe versions.

[LeBron 06]

He was very good, but tends to get overrated when people compare him to 01 Kobe, or even 09 Kobe.
His atrocious defense just doesn't hold a candle to either of those Kobe versions.



LeBron made ​​the first team all-nba defense in 2009

This is ridiculous to say that his defense was atrocious against Orlando....This is Howard and Lewis who killed the cavs in 2009

[SexSymbol]

LeBron made ​​the first team all-nba defense in 2009

This is ridiculous to say that his defense was atrocious against Orlando....This is Howard and Lewis who killed the cavs in 2009
All-defense teams usually tend to put people because of their name in it, it often has nothing to do with actual defense on the court.
He did more defense in post game conferences than on the court.

[PJR]

I see sexsymbol is still spewing the usual garbage he does in all his post. Does this clown never NOT talk out of his ass?

Oh yea, the reason the Cavs lost in 2009 was because LeBron didn't do enough. F*cking retard lol.

[SexSymbol]

I see sexsymbol is still spewing the usual garbage he does in all his post. Does this clown never NOT talk out of his ass?

Oh yea, the reason the Cavs lost in 2009 was because LeBron didn't do enough. F*cking retard lol.
didn't do enough on DEFENSE. He's a team leader, by not defending, he's inspiring teammates to stop giving a shit about that end too.
Btw, nice way to try and refute my argument by trying to insult me :applause:
Very mature.

[PJR]

If you think the difference in team success between LeBron and Kobe in 2009, is their individual defense, you're a retard who should never ever be taken serious. It's that simple.

[SexSymbol]

If you think the difference in team success between LeBron and Kobe in 2009, is their individual defense, you're a retard who should never ever be taken serious. It's that simple.
Yet again, I wasn't implying that at all, you're trying to put words into my mouth, and calling me a retard at the same time.
Cavs had their flaws, and quite a few of those flaws were generated by LeBron's incompetence as a leader of the team. Kobe's Lakers also had flaws, but Kobe adjusted his game in all of the series differently to accomodate his teammates.
Kobe was the better leader, while being at least on the same level as a player, that is what I'm saying.

[PJR]

All of what you said is bullshit. Nothing tangible whatsoever.

LeBron's Cavs overachieved because LeBron is an all time great, who played at an all time great level through out the entire season.

Kobe's team won the title, because he too is an all time great, and he also had a great team, and an elite secondary star who could distort defenses down low in Gasol. Not to mention Phil and the triangle offense is a world of difference to having Mike Brown.

But continue on talking that nonsense.

[SexSymbol]

All of what you said is bullshit. Nothing tangible whatsoever.

LeBron's Cavs overachieved because LeBron is an all time great, who played at an all time great level through out the entire season.

Kobe's team won the title, because he too is an all time great, and he also had a great team, and an elite secondary star who could distort defenses down low in Gasol. Not to mention Phil and the triangle offense is a world of difference to having Mike Brown.

But continue on talking that nonsense.
LeBron's cavs hanged their heads on defense, that is what made them consistently good to great since 07 till 10, it is Mike Brown's accomplishment.
LeBron played very good in 09 RS, I'll give you that, his defense had improved since 08, jumping five points on defensive rating, it seemed like he was coming for the best player in the league title, but he really felt short in the Play-offs, BECAUSE he completely abandoned defense as a thing that made the team succesful.

[Kiddlovesnets]

1998-2007 Duncan
2008-2013 Kobe
2014 Duncan

[PsychoBe]

1998-2007 Duncan
2008-2013 Kobe
2014 Duncan

no.

just no.

[Kiddlovesnets]

no.

just no.

You may pretend it is not but deep in your heart you know its true.

[LONGTIME]

Boiled down...

Kobe 5

The tired old shit bag Duncan 4

[Ne 1]

LeBron made ​​the first team all-nba defense in 2009

This is ridiculous to say that his defense was atrocious against Orlando....This is Howard and Lewis who killed the cavs in 2009
He may have a point. I remember people were talking about how he was a DPOY candidate in 2009 , but he showed how he wasn't even close in the ECF that year. His defense was pretty poor and practically exposed.

They assigned him to Rafer Alston and made him sag off of him and the thing is LeBron didn't make much of an impact on help defense. He didn't really bother Dwight though it was hard to do so because of how deep he was setting up but I don't remember him pressuring the ball to take time off the clock. Kobe's help defense on Dwight in the Finals was a good bit better and often stripped him or forced a deflection. I thought he could've made more of an impact defensively.

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

this interview was in 2007

duncan was his same old 20/10 self still by that time

duncan was 2007 1st team all nba/ 1st team all defense ( same as kobe )



so why........ why on earth would duncans own coach say kobes better on both ends of the court?

because he was

[T_L_P]

01 should be Kobe's because he matched prime Shaq's production and had the most dominant Playoff run in NBA history, while Duncan's run in 03 was impressive given the supporting cast (that did actually perform well in key stretches), it doesn't match what Kobe did in 01. Kobe was better than Duncan both in the regular season and the Playoffs in 01 while Duncan was only better than Kobe in the post-season in 03, when he also beat Kobe in a series, like Kobe beat Duncan in 01(01 series was one-sided, with Kobe dropping 45-10-3 in Duncan's house).

And that's why I give Kobe '01 and Duncan '03.

And get the **** out of here. Duncan's 03 regular season was better than Kobe's. Sure, he had a stretch of 40 point games or whatever, but at the end of the season what Duncan did was better. And the difference in their postseason play is much larger than in '01.

[T_L_P]

Can all the people who picked Kobe in 2002 explain why?

[PickernRoller]

Can all the people who picked Kobe in 2002 explain why?

In 03-04 season Kobe was better....carried the Lakers to the Finals too.

Kobe was better in 01, 03-04 season and from 06-12. Case closed.

[T_L_P]

In 03-04 season Kobe was better....carried the Lakers to the Finals too.

Kobe was better in 01, 03-04 season and from 06-12. Case closed.

What does any of that have to do with what I asked?

Also, Shaq in 04: 24.4 PER in the reg, 24.8 in the Playoffs
Kobe in 04: 23.7 PER in the reg, 21.0 in the Playoffs

Obviously PER isn't the end all be all, but Shaq was still better than Kobe in 04, and there's no way you can call him better after chucking his team out of the Finals.

[Kiddlovesnets]

In 03-04 season Kobe was better....carried the Lakers to the Finals too.

Kobe was better in 01, 03-04 season and from 06-12. Case closed.

Come on, even the diehard Kobestans do not credit their idol for the infamous 03-04 playoffs when Kobe singlehandedly led the the underdog Pistons to a surprise NBA title. Kobe did play very well in 08-10 though.
:facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBron's cavs hanged their heads on defense, that is what made them consistently good to great since 07 till 10, it is Mike Brown's accomplishment.
LeBron played very good in 09 RS, I'll give you that, his defense had improved since 08, jumping five points on defensive rating, it seemed like he was coming for the best player in the league title, but he really felt short in the Play-offs, BECAUSE he completely abandoned defense as a thing that made the team succesful.

This guy makes up so much stuff :lol


LeBron 2009 blows any Kobe Version out of the water its not even close :oldlol:

[PickernRoller]

Come on, even the diehard Kobestans do not credit their idol for the infamous 03-04 playoffs when Kobe singlehandedly led the the underdog Pistons to a surprise NBA title. Kobe did play very well in 08-10 though.
:facepalm

I actually watch Basketball fakkit. Kobe carried the Lakers that season. His playoff performance in the finals does not outdo everything he did throughout all of that season. I am not even going to throw some context as to what happened in that Finals - just a waste of my time with a clown.

In terms of Kobe vs. Duncan. It's really as simple as I said:

01, 04, 06-12 Kobe. No case for Duncan just wishful thinking and opinionated BS.

[PickernRoller]

This guy makes up so much stuff :lol


LeBron 2009 blows any Kobe Version out of the water its not even close :oldlol:

Lebron claimed in 09 after getting the MVP that he wasn't better than Kobe on NATIONAL TV. Keep dreaming.....even your idol knows the truth. There is a difference between being the best player in the league and being an MVP. Just like this year.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

When you compare 2 of the best of the 2000's year by year for there career starting from the time when both were in the league (1998), who would say was the better player in each season?

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 -Duncan
2001 -Kobe
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 -Kobe
2008 -Kobe
2009 -Kobe
2010 -Kobe
2011 -Kobe
2012 -Kobe
2013- Kobe
2014 - Duncan
:applause:

[Nowitness]

duncan from rookie year (1998 i think) to 2005. then again in 2007 and 2014.

kobe in 06. 08-12.

i give them a tie for 2013. duncan was the dpoy imo and kobe killed it on offense..they both really turned back theclock

[sportjames23]

Boiled down...

Kobe 5

The tired old shit bag Duncan 4


I think we need an update here. :lol

[Stringer Bell]

1998-2005: Duncan. I wouldn't really disagree much with anyone picking Kobe in 2001. Kobe had a great year and put up some ridiculous performances in the postseason (48 and 16 against Sacramento, 45 and 10 against San Antonio), and outplayed Duncan in 3 of the 4 postseason games against each other, including those dreadful shellackings in games 3 and 4.

2006: Kobe. Should have been MVP, but of course, the NBA has this "you have to be on a contending team" rule for MVP even if you drag a crap squad to 45 wins in a tough conference by playing ridiculously well.

2007: Duncan

2008-12: Kobe

2013-14: Duncan

Overall I'd rank Duncan higher and would pick him at his peak, for his overall impact and it's just so hard for a shooting guard to have the type of impact as a 7 footer.

[kennethgriffin]

forget kobe. lets just do the spurs players

1998 - robinson
1999 - duncan
2000 - duncan
2001 - duncan
2002 - duncan
2003 - duncan
2004 - duncan
2005 - manu
2006 - manu
2007 - parker
2008 - parker
2009 - parker
2010 - parker
2011 - parker
2012 - parker
2013 - kawhi
2014 - kawhi

[dubeta]

forget kobe. lets just do the spurs players

1998 - robinson
1999 - duncan
2000 - duncan
2001 - duncan
2002 - duncan
2003 - duncan
2004 - duncan
2005 - manu
2006 - manu
2007 - parker
2008 - parker
2009 - parker
2010 - parker
2011 - parker
2012 - parker
2013 - kawhi
2014 - kawhi



LOL what about lakers??

1996-2004- Shaq

2005-2008 Kobe

2009-2010 Gasol

2011-2013 Kobe

2014- Nick Young


Kobe was only the best player on his team 7 times in his career :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

LOL what about lakers??

1996-2004- Shaq

2005-2008 Kobe

2009-2010 Gasol

2011-2013 Kobe

2014- Nick Young


Kobe was only the best player on his team 7 times in his career :oldlol:


except i have mvp shares in the season or finals and stats to back me up.

while on the other hand

stats and mvp voting shows



2003 - kobe
2004 - kobe
2005 - kobe
2006 - kobe
2007 - kobe
2008 - kobe
2009 - kobe
2010 - kobe
2011 - kobe
2012 - kobe
2013 - kobe






and i can admit shaq ( one of the most dominant primes ever ) was better than a young kobe


that isnt embarrassing


but if ginobili was on kobes team and outshined him in the finals... i'd be ashamed

if parker was on kobes team and won mvp in the finals.. i'd be ashamed

if kawhi was on kobes team and won mvp in the finals.. i'd be ashamed




ya know? what? i? mean? breh?






























http://i58.tinypic.com/2ebc11j.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

see.. gasol didnt win finals mvp over kobe


parker and kawhi DID win finals mvp over duncant


YE BOI
http://i58.tinypic.com/2ebc11j.jpg

[rmt]

forget kobe. lets just do the spurs players

1998 - robinson
1999 - duncan
2000 - duncan
2001 - duncan
2002 - duncan
2003 - duncan
2004 - duncan
2005 - manu
2006 - manu
2007 - parker
2008 - parker
2009 - parker
2010 - parker
2011 - parker
2012 - parker
2013 - kawhi
2014 - kawhi


1998
Duncan 21.1 pts / 11.9 rebs / 2.7 asst / 2.5 blks 54.9%
DRob 21.6 pts / 10.6 rebs / 2.7 asst / 2.6 blks 51.1% *so close & TD is a rookie

2005
Duncan 20.3 pts / 11.1 rebs / 2.7 asst / 2.6 blks 49.6%
Manu 16 pts / 3.9 asst 47.1%

2006
Duncan 18.6 pts / 11 rebs / 3.2 asst / 2 blks 48.4%
Manu 15.1 pts / 3.6 asst 46.2%

2007
Duncan 20 pts / 10.6 rebs / 3.4 asst / 2.4 blks 54.6%
Parker 18.6 pts / 5.5 asst 52%

2008
Duncan 19.3 pts / 11.3 rebs / 2.8 asst / 1.9 blks 49.7%
Parker 18.8 pts / 6 assts 49.4%

2010
Duncan 17.9 pts / 10.1 rebs / 3.2 asst / 1.5 blks 51.8%
Parker 16 pts / 5.7 asst 48.7%

2013
Duncan 17.8 pts / 9.9 rebs / 2.7 assts / 2.7 blks 50.2%
Kwahi 11.9 pts / 6 rebs / 1.6 asst / 1.7 stl 49.4%

2014
Duncan 15.1 pts / 9.7 rebs / 3 assts / 1.9 blks 49%
Kwahi 12.8 pts / 6.2 rebs / 2 assts / 1.7 stls 52.2%

You should at least check before you type rubbish.

[T_L_P]

I give props to kenneth for one thing: he's always thinking of new ways to prop up Kobe.

According to MVP shares he was better than Shaq in 03, yet when Duncan leads the Spurs in 05/06/07 etc someone else is the better player.

Based on their whole careers, Duncan has more MVP shares than Kobe. I guess that means he's better than him too. :oldlol:

[HOoopCityJones]

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/kobe_bryant_vs_tim_duncan.htm

It's close , but Kobe's better.

Better longevity.

[Round Mound]

1998 - Duncan
1999 - Duncan
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan (MVP)
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Duncan
2007 - Duncan
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Kobe
2012 - Kobe

This :applause:

[Nowitness]

i was looking at their stats earlier. this stuck out-

kobe has 6 season with win shares per 48 minutes over .200 (>.200 is great).

duncan has 10 season.

kobe has 2 playoffs with win shares per 48 minutes over .200. this was in 2001 and 2009.

duncan has 6...in 1999, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2014.

so kobe really is 2/7 and duncan is 5/6. :applause:

[tpols]

99- Duncan
00- Duncan
01- Kobe
02- Duncan
03- Duncan
04- Duncan
05- Duncan
06- Kobe
07- Kobe
08- Kobe
09- Kobe
10- Kobe
11- Kobe
12- Kobe
13- Kobe
14- Duncan