People who list Bron in the top 15 of alltime

[goldenryan]

are ridculious. look at who they are placing him above

Jerry West
Hondo
Oscar Robinson
Julius Ervin
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
George Mikan (GOAT pre-Russell)

Right now he's still at the KG, Dirk, Stockton,D-Rob, Thomas top 25ish. alittle above Pierce,kidd, and Pippen.

[Lebron23]

LeBron has more Finals MVP and MVP than Malone, Robertson, Erving, and West. He's a top 12 player of all time. Next year he will have the same number of MVP as Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt only won 2 NBA titles, and 1 Finals MVP in his NBA Career.

[DaSeba5]

LeBron is definitely top 12 of all time.

[SilkkTheShocker]

George Mikan? :oldlol:

No one gives a shit about scrub-ball

[Lebron23]

LeBron is definitely top 12 of all time.


I'll rep you later. You are one of the best rookies in this forum.

[DaSeba5]

I'll rep you later. You are one of the best rookies in this forum.

Thanks bro :cheers:

[Sarcastic]

LeBron has more Finals MVP and MVP than Malone, Robertson, Erving, and West. He's a top 12 player of all time. Next year he will have the same number of MVP as Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt only won 2 NBA titles, and 1 Finals MVP in his NBA Career.


MVP was voted on by the players back then. Is there any doubt that he would have won another MVP in 1961 when he put up 50/26 if it was voted on by the media?

[kennethgriffin]

lebron will end up top 11-15 easly... he has the resume pretty much already

just needs to play atleast 11 years to make it official

say... if he were to die in a crash tomorow... thats 9 seasons... nobody with 9 seasons makes the top 15


right now hes around top 20... in 2 years... top 11-15


in 2 years with another ring and fmvp... top 10 bumping hakeem

in 4-5 years with another 2-3 more rings and hes up there with duncan and shaq


i dont see him going any farther than that... this is the best case for him


winning 5+ titles and being where kobe/magic are right now is pretty much like winning the lottery

[Dictator]

Exactly. Lebron only has the mvp edge because of team wins not individual performance. If it was individual performance many, many, many player would have the mvp.

[Dukem]

LeBron is currently anyway between 12 - 14 depending on the mood i'm in. A 3x MVP, 1x FMVP, 1x NBA Champion, Multiple All-star appearances etc etc. Plus he's still in his prime so he has the potential of ending up anywhere between 5 - 10 all time when he's finished.

[Lebron23]

Exactly. Lebron only has the mvp edge because of team wins not individual performance. If it was individual performance many, many, many player would have the mvp.


LeBron had good all around numbers when he won the MVP Award. Wilt and his team had an average record that why he failed to win the Award in his best statistical season.

[Vienceslav]

You can either wait till Lebron surpasses the guys with his stats(won

[onhcetum]

Most of you ******s aren't even old enough to have watched 60's, 70's and heck, even 80's basketball. Bunch of nerds looking at stats and arguing on the forums all day about a sport 90% of you guys didn't even play.

[Vienceslav]

Most of you ******s aren't even old enough to have watched 60's, 70's and heck, even 80's basketball. Bunch of nerds looking at stats and arguing on the forums all day about a sport 90% of you guys didn't even play.
That

[Raz]

I don't see how LeBron James is ranked ahead of Moses Malone yet. If his career continues like it is, then yes, he is a top 10 player. He isn't yet though, he has a ways to go.

My rankings:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Hakeem Olajwuon
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Jerry West
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. John Havlicek
15. Bob Pettit
16. LeBron James - pretty esteemed company so early in his career

[Punpun]

arguing on the forums all day about a sport 90% of you guys didn't even play.

So what ? The best culinary critic aren't cooks. Ad repetitam. Someone doesn't need to actually play basketball in order to be transcended by those players playing at such elite level.

[niko]

He's close, and i think there is an assumption he will continue at this high level for quite some time.

[Owl]

are ridculious. look at who they are placing him above

Jerry West No MVPs (arguably deserved 1)
Hondo No MVPs
Oscar Robinson Doesn't exist. Oscar Robertson had 1
Julius Ervin Doesn't exist. Julius Erving has 2 outright ABA MVPs, one shared ABA MVP and one NBA MVP
Moses Malone Has 3 MVPs
Karl Malone Has 2 MVPs
George Mikan (GOAT pre-Russell) Pre-MVP Era

Right now he's still at the KG, Dirk, Stockton,D-Rob, Thomas top 25ish. alittle above Pierce,kidd, and Pippen.
LeBron already has 3 MVPs and was denied one by a media narrative.

So yeah he's at the same level as Isiah Thomas who once managed a 5th place finish in MVP voting. :D

It's pointless rating a player who hasn't played out their prime because there's so much that might yet be achieved.

[alenleomessi]

He is in the 10-12 range
Will be easily 2-6 when its all said and done assuming he wins at least 2 more rings

[Redoks]

He is in the 12-15 range no doubt. He will definetly enter the top 10 when it's all said and done but how deep he finishes is up to him.

[longhornfan1234]

1. MJ

2. Wilt

3. Kareem

4. Magic

5. Russell

6. Bird

7. Shaq

8. Kobe

9. Hakeem

10. Duncan

11. Oscar

12. West

13. LeBron.



I have LeBron at 13.

[NumberSix]

I don't usually engage in "legacy" lists, but I would think how good the actual player is counts for something. It's not just about accomplishments.

As an individual player, the guy already has 3 MVPs and a FMVP. His all around stats are top 2 or 3 all time.

There's really no justification to put a Moses Malone, Karl Malone or someone like that above him.

[Odinn]

:lol at Hondo and Karl Malone being ahead of LeBron.

[inclinerator]

I don't see how LeBron James is ranked ahead of Moses Malone yet. If his career continues like it is, then yes, he is a top 10 player. He isn't yet though, he has a ways to go.

My rankings:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Hakeem Olajwuon
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Jerry West
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. John Havlicek
15. Bob Pettit
16. LeBron James - pretty esteemed company so early in his career
oscar said lebron is in a class of his own

[trabash]

Lebron has been the best player in the world for the last 5 years and probably will be for another 4-5 years, in addition to that hes undoubtedly the most talented player to ever play the game.

If thats not top 15, well, if it helps you sleep better at night, then ok.

[KBryant24]

I don't see how LeBron James is ranked ahead of Moses Malone yet. If his career continues like it is, then yes, he is a top 10 player. He isn't yet though, he has a ways to go.

My rankings:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Hakeem Olajwuon
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Jerry West
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. John Havlicek
15. Bob Pettit
16. LeBron James - pretty esteemed company so early in his career

we have the same 12, yet i differ after than, i have elgin baylor and dr. j instead of pettit and hondo. Lebron is damn close to being number 15 though

[All Net]

I have him in the 12-15 range...depends on how you rank players on stats.

[longhornfan1234]

I don't see how LeBron James is ranked ahead of Moses Malone yet. If his career continues like it is, then yes, he is a top 10 player. He isn't yet though, he has a ways to go.

My rankings:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Hakeem Olajwuon
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Jerry West
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. John Havlicek
15. Bob Pettit
16. LeBron James - pretty esteemed company so early in his career






:lebronamazed:

[Linspired]

quit bitchin about bron's place in the history. we all know he is a top 5 talent who will most likely end up being a top 10-12 player. but let him finish his career before we discuss his place in history.

who knows if bron breaks a leg next year and will never be the same? if that happens people will say his career has been cut short, and won't put him in top 15 because of his failure early in his career.

[RaininTwos]

I don't see how LeBron James is ranked ahead of Moses Malone yet. If his career continues like it is, then yes, he is a top 10 player. He isn't yet though, he has a ways to go.

My rankings:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Hakeem Olajwuon
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Jerry West
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. John Havlicek
15. Bob Pettit
16. LeBron James - pretty esteemed company so early in his career

wouldn't be mad at that

my list would have some names moved around though

[KBryant24]

quit bitchin about bron's place in the history. we all know he is a top 5 talent who will most likely end up being a top 10-12 player. but let him finish his career before we discuss his place in history.

.
amen

[Alan Ogg]

Lebron is top 12 for me. Next year he could get to

4 MVPs
2 FMVPs
2 Rings
21,000+ career points
top 10 career playoff points
top 15 career playoff assists

he'd easily cruise into the top 10. That would be insane IF he could do it.

[LEFT4DEAD]

I dont really know any seriuos person who doesn't have him in top 14 at least.

[pauk]

Lebron is definitely top 12 of all time...

Jerry West? Pfff.... 1 FMVP/Championship, 0 MVPs... thats it...

Julius Erving? Pfff.... in the NBA he got 1 MVP and was only 1 time champion without any FMVP...

Hondo? This sidekick? Haha.... absolutely NOTHING over Lebron...

Karl Malone? 2 MVPs vs 3 MVPs & 1 FMVP/CHampionship.... :facepalm

Oscar Robertson? 1 MVP... averaged once a triple double... the time he got one championship he was out of his prime and sidekicking Kareem.... :rolleyes:

and so on and so on........




The only guy who Lebron is tied with the #11-#12 spot is Moses Malone who himself has 3 MVPs and 1 FMVP/Championship.... enough with all-star selections, 1st all-nba, 1st all-defensive, POTM, Rookie of the Year and so on.......... only Moses Malone....

[Raz]

I don't see how LeBron James is ranked ahead of Moses Malone yet. If his career continues like it is, then yes, he is a top 10 player. He isn't yet though, he has a ways to go.

My rankings:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Hakeem Olajwuon
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Jerry West
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. John Havlicek
15. Bob Pettit
16. LeBron James - pretty esteemed company so early in his career


One more time for you all.

[FindingTim]

all-time great talent: check.
all-time great offense: check.
all-time great defense: check.
all-time great stats: check.
rookie of the year: check.
8 time all-star (in 9 years): check.
26 time player of the month: check.
3 time MVP: check.
durable, consistent, injury-free: check.
elite career: check.
elite peak. check.
enormous impact on the league: check.
championship: check

..I'm going to say top 12. When you think about it, he has two entire calendar years of Player of the Month.
I think Lebrons career will play out like that of many great painters, and the public's appreciation of him will steadily increase with time. They say the hardest things to clearly identify are right in front of your nose...

[pauk]

I don't see how LeBron James is ranked ahead of Moses Malone yet. If his career continues like it is, then yes, he is a top 10 player. He isn't yet though, he has a ways to go.


LEBRON JAMES NBA CAREER

3 x MVP
1 x FMVP
1 x Champion
2 x All-Star MVP
Rookie of the Year
8 x NBA All-Star
6 x All-NBA 1st team
4 x All-Defensive 1st team
All-Rookie 1st team
2 x Gold Medal
20 x Player of the Month trophies (most in NBA history)
3+ x Best player in the NBA

STATS:

28 PPG (#3 all time)
7 RPG
7 APG
2 SPG
1 BPG
40 total triple doubles

PER - 27.2 (#2 all-time and #3 in Playoffs, after Michael Jordan only)

MOSES MALONE NBA CAREER

3 x MVP
1 x FMVP
1 x Champion
0 x All-Star MVP
0 x Rookie of the Year
12 x NBA All-Star
4 x All-NBA 1st team
1 x All-Defensive 1st team
1 x All-Rookie 1st team
0 x Gold Medal
3 x Player of the Month trophies
0 x Best player in the NBA

STATS:

20 PPG
12 RPG
1 APG
1 SPG
1 BPG

PER - 22.0 (#25 all-time)



















MAYBE NOW YOU SEE????????????????????? :rolleyes:

[pauk]

Its like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon/Kobe Bryant
10. Kobe Bryant/Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Lebron James
12. Moses Malone
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Jerry West
15. Julius Erving

GET OVER IT

[Legends66NBA7]

look at who they are placing him above

Jerry West
Hondo
Oscar Robinson
Julius Ervin
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
George Mikan (GOAT pre-Russell)

And rightfully so.

LeBron James can be rightfully placed above all those players you mentioned.

Robertson, Hondo, Erving, and Karl Malone don't have much, if at all, of a case to me (with the exception of Malone, who only has longevity).

Mikan, Moses Malone, and West have better cases, but I don't really see it "ridiculous" to say that LeBron is above them.

What makes all of those players you mentioned so much better than LeBron ?

I'm just asking.

[Hank]

In the end Lebron will easily go down as Top-3 or 4 all-time


In 10 years Kobe will not even be considered Top-15.. wherever you go outside of this board all the data is coming out as we speak, and so many people are noticing the truth.

[StateOfMind12]

LeBron is 11th to me, no lower than 12th.

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Wilt
6. Hakeem
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Kobe
10. Duncan
11. LeBron
12. Erving

[arifgokcen]

LeBron is 11th to me, no lower than 12th.

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Wilt
6. Hakeem
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Kobe
10. Duncan
11. LeBron
12. Erving
I like this list a lot.I dont know maybe you can switch duncan/kobe/hakeem trio and at this point i can see him catching bird in two years or if he somehow wins DPOY MVP FMVP.... you never know.

[pauk]

Lebron has been absolutely raping (excuse the word), murdering, humiliating any all time great in literally everything else than a championship baring his age/time he did all that in......... his cake was/is ridicilously massive... ALL he ever needed was that Championship/FMVP.... he only needed that icing on top of his cake.... and he is now in a position to only be getting more icing on top of an evergrowing cake....

This guy has potential, pace, situation (whether you like it or not) to build a GOAT career... or at least end up top 2-5 of all time...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron has been absolutely raping (excuse the word), murdering, humiliating any all time great in literally everything else than a championship baring his age/time he did all that in......... his cake was/is ridicilously massive... ALL he ever needed was that Championship/FMVP.... he only needed that icing on top of his cake.... and he will only be getting more icing on top of an evergrowing cake....

This guy has potential & pace (whether you like it or not) to be GOAT... or at least end up top 2-5 of all time...
:oldlol: Good one pauk

[Lebron23]

LeBron is 11th to me, no lower than 12th.

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Wilt
6. Hakeem
7. Shaq
8. Bird
9. Kobe
10. Duncan
11. LeBron
12. Erving

Welcome Back RG!!!

[StateOfMind12]

I like this list a lot.I dont know maybe you can switch duncan/kobe/hakeem trio and at this point i can see him catching bird in two years or if he somehow wins DPOY MVP FMVP.... you never know.
The highest I can see LeBron reach in the all-time list 3. I don't think he'll ever pass MJ or Russell unless he 4-peats or does something that neither one of them ever did.

I believe when it is all said and done he will surpass Bird especially since LeBron in 2012 was better than Bird ever was.

[KBryant24]

The highest I can see LeBron reach in the all-time list 3. I don't think he'll ever pass MJ or Russell unless he 4-peats or does something that neither one of them ever did.

I believe when it is all said and done he will surpass Bird especially since LeBron in 2012 was better than Bird ever was.
my top ten is broke up into two tiers(and it has 12 players)
tier 1
bird-jordan-wilt-magic <--- these are the nodoubters, the best players in the history of the game
tier 2
kobe-shaq-kaj-russell-west-oscar-hakeem-duncan

lebron currently is in tier 3

i do believe that lebron has a chance to make it into the tier 1 group and go down as one of the greatest players of alltime

[talkingconch]

Its like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon/Kobe Bryant
10. Kobe Bryant/Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Lebron James
12. Moses Malone
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Jerry West
15. Julius Erving

GET OVER IT

Listen. Lebron james will not pass Kobe bryant if he wins 3-4 rings. He is on a stacked team in his prime. Now if he can win 5 or so, then I can see him in the top 5-7 possibly. So you listing Kobe at #10 and Lebron right behind him after winning one ring (LOL) isnt going to change reality.

[Quickening]

Listen. Lebron james will not pass Kobe bryant if he wins 3-4 rings. He is on a stacked team in his prime. Now if he can win 5 or so, then I can see him in the top 5-7 possibly. So you listing Kobe at #10 and Lebron right behind him after winning one ring (LOL) isnt going to change reality.
Reality is 2fmvp and 4 mvps with a superior stat line throughout his career puts LeBron ahead of Kobe.. just accept the inevitable.

[Da KO King]

I don't care about team success or media awards. I look at measurable productivity (stats) and immeasurable productivity (the "eye-test" as scouts call it) and consider who I'd pick to play on my team, if I was building a franchise or playing in a single game (both ref'd and call your own).

I would not pick a single player I've ever watched in person, on live tv, or rebroadcast over LeBron James.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Reality is 2fmvp and 4 mvps with a superior stat line throughout his career puts LeBron ahead of Kobe.. just accept the inevitable.
2 Championships will put him above Kobe?
Heat fans :oldlol:

[Lebron23]

I don't care about team success or media awards. I look at measurable productivity (stats) and immeasurable productivity (the "eye-test" as scouts call it) and consider who I'd pick to play on my team, if I was building a franchise or playing in a single game (both ref'd and call your own).

I would not pick a single player I've ever watched in person, on live tv, or rebroadcast over LeBron James.

/End Thread

[arifgokcen]

2 Championships will put him above Kobe?
Heat fans :oldlol:
I am not a heat fan but another FMVP and MVP would put him above kobe for me.Rings matter but they dont tell the whole story.Consider wilt.Another thing i have never seen anyone rank kobe over bird even though,kobe has more rings.Lebron's career at this point is better and thats the reality.

[Quickening]

I am not a heat fan but another FMVP and MVP would put him above kobe for me.Rings matter but they dont tell the whole story.Consider wilt.Another thing i have never seen anyone rank kobe over bird even though,kobe has more rings.Lebron's career at this point is better and thats the reality.

This... its not difficult.

4 MVPs, 2 FMVPs superior stat line throughout career versus 1 MVP AND 2 FMVP... its not really that close, winning rings as a second option just doesn't count much in top ten rankings, its unfortunate, but Its also unfortunate that Lebron didn't spend his 7 years in Cleveland with a prime Shaq.

Riding other players, and team accomplishments mean little in the top ten... when the hypes died down and Kobe been retired for a few years people will realise this.

[Vienceslav]

I am not a heat fan but another FMVP and MVP would put him above kobe for me.Rings matter but they dont tell the whole story.Consider wilt.Another thing i have never seen anyone rank kobe over bird even though,kobe has more rings.Lebron's career at this point is better and thats the reality.
That

[Deuce Bigalow]

This... its not difficult.

4 MVPs, 2 FMVPs superior stat line throughout career versus 1 MVP AND 2 FMVP... its not really that close, winning rings as a second option just doesn't count much in top ten rankings, its unfortunate, but Its also unfortunate that Lebron didn't spend his 7 years in Cleveland with a prime Shaq.

Riding other players, and team accomplishments mean little in the top ten... when the hypes died down and Kobe been retired for a few years people will realise this.

Let's compare Kobe's first 3 rings vs Kareem's last 4 rings

Playoff stats

Kobe Bryant
'02 - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.6 APG, 43.4%
'01 - 29.4 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 6.1 APG, 46.9%
'00 - 21.1 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 4.1 APG, 44.2%

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
'88 - 14.1 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 1.5 APG, 46.4%
'87 - 19.2 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 2.0 APG, 53.0%
'85 - 21.9 PPG, 8.1 RPG, 4.0 APG, 56.0%
'82 - 20.4 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 3.6 APG, 52.0%

So where do you rank Kareem since he "rode other players"

[D.J.]

He's not top 10 yet. Right now, somewhere between 11 and 15 depending on if you have him over guys like Jerry West, Moses Malone, Hondo, Charles Barkley, and Karl Malone. 1 more title and/or Finals MVP should put him right on par with Kobe for 10. Anything more than that is top 10.

[CavaliersFTW]

LeBron has more Finals MVP and MVP than Malone, Robertson, Erving, and West. He's a top 12 player of all time. Next year he will have the same number of MVP as Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt only won 2 NBA titles, and 1 Finals MVP in his NBA Career.
Finals MVP didn't exist in 1967... who do u think finals MVP was that season had it existed? Billy Cunningham? :lol lmfao at you knocking Wilt for not winning certain awards when never existed.

[Lebron23]

Finals MVP didn't exist in 1967... who do u think finals MVP was that season had it existed? Billy Cunningham? :lol lmfao at you knocking Wilt for not winning certain awards when never existed.


LeBron will surpass Wilt in less than 3 years.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He's not top 10 yet. Right now, somewhere between 11 and 15 depending on if you have him over guys like Jerry West, Moses Malone, Hondo, Charles Barkley, and Karl Malone. 1 more title and/or Finals MVP should put him right on par with Kobe for 10. Anything more than that is top 10.
1 more ring does not put him on par with the careers of Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan.

[Dictator]

LeBron will surpass Wilt in less than 3 years.

:biggums:

[talkingconch]

This... its not difficult.

4 MVPs, 2 FMVPs superior stat line throughout career versus 1 MVP AND 2 FMVP... its not really that close, winning rings as a second option just doesn't count much in top ten rankings, its unfortunate, but Its also unfortunate that Lebron didn't spend his 7 years in Cleveland with a prime Shaq.

Riding other players, and team accomplishments mean little in the top ten... when the hypes died down and Kobe been retired for a few years people will realise this.
Its not that hard to grasp. If Kobe would've left back in 05-06 and joined Duncan or someone, its pretty easy to say he would've won rings + being in his PRIME, stats would be incredible.

[Jax]

Lebron is top5 talentwise, why act like he's not just because he only played 9 years and some in his teens still. When you start counting stats that's a wrap...
If he wins finals mvp next year he'll have as much fmvp as Kobe.
It's a waiting game now, what's he gonna do and win next.

[Deuce Bigalow]

LeBron will surpass Wilt in less than 3 years.
Well that isn't saying much. He only has 2 rings and choked so many away.

[D.J.]

1 more ring does not put him on par with the careers of Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan.


Not with Shaq or Duncan, but definitely Kobe. Assuming Bron wins Finals MVP with that 2nd ring, that matches Kobe in Finals MVP's, and he already has a 3-1 advantage in MVPs(possibly 4-1 after next year). He's definitely on par with Kobe with another ring and/or Finals MVP.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Not with Shaq or Duncan, but definitely Kobe. Assuming Bron wins Finals MVP with that 2nd ring, that matches Kobe in Finals MVP's, and he already has a 3-1 advantage in MVPs(possibly 4-1 after next year). He's definitely on par with Kobe with another ring and/or Finals MVP.
:oldlol:

Kobe's career is better or at the very least equal to Duncan's.

[tmacattack33]

are ridculious. look at who they are placing him above

Jerry West
Hondo
Oscar Robinson
Julius Ervin
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
George Mikan (GOAT pre-Russell)

Right now he's still at the KG, Dirk, Stockton,D-Rob, Thomas top 25ish. alittle above Pierce,kidd, and Pippen.

Who are you to dictate someone else's list?

I care more about how good a player was in their prime more than anything else. So I have Lebron very high...i also have Penny and Grant Hill above Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Paul Pierce, Reggie Miller, and Ray Allen on this peak performance list...u mad?

[D.J.]

:oldlol:

Kobe's career is better or at the very least equal to Duncan's.


Um, no. Duncan won more rings as the alpha dog, has more Finals MVPs, and was more of a two way threat.

[Mach_3]

The highest I can see LeBron reach in the all-time list 3. I don't think he'll ever pass MJ or Russell unless he 4-peats or does something that neither one of them ever did.

I believe when it is all said and done he will surpass Bird especially since LeBron in 2012 was better than Bird ever was.

:roll: :roll:

and who the hell said one more ring puts him above Kobe?

Heat fans make Laker fans look good by comparison

[Deuce Bigalow]

Um, no. Duncan won more rings as the alpha dog, has more Finals MVPs, and was more of a two way threat.
Then he should be ahead of Kareem and Bird. Kareem has 2 rings as alpha and 2 FMVPs, Bird has 3 rings as alpha and 2 FMVPs. Less than Duncan in both categories. You have him ranked over those guys?

Here's the two's playoff stats when they got to the Finals

Kobe Bryant
'00: 21.1-4.5-4.4-52 TS%
'01: 29.4-7.3-6.1-56 TS%
'02: 26.6-5.8-4.6-51 TS%
'04: 24.5-4.7-5.5-51 TS%
'08: 30.1-5.7-5.6-58 TS%
'09: 30.2-5.3-5.5-56 TS%
'10: 29.2-6.0-5.5-57 TS%

Tim Duncan
'99: 23.2-11.5-2.8-57 TS%
'03: 24.7-15.4-5.3-58 TS%
'05: 23.6-12.4-2.7-53 TS%
'07: 22.2-11.5-3.3-56 TS%

Kobe in '01 was better than Duncan in all of his runs except 2003 even though he didn't win Finals MVP.

Kobe was the best player on the floor 4 out of 6 times LA and San Antonio met in the Playoffs, Kobe's team taking it 4-2.

[Mr Exlax]

For the last time, rings are a team accomplishment. Being the man or not being the man is debatable. Jordan, Kobe, Shaq all these guys had a team. Be realistic.

[D.J.]

Then he should be ahead of Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, ect. You have him ranked over those guys?

Here's the two's playoff stats when they got to the Finals

Kobe Bryant
'00: 21.1-4.5-4.4-52 TS%
'01: 29.4-7.3-6.1-56 TS%
'02: 26.6-5.8-4.6-51 TS%
'04: 24.5-4.7-5.5-51 TS%
'08: 30.1-5.7-5.6-58 TS%
'09: 30.2-5.3-5.5-56 TS%
'10: 29.2-6.0-5.5-57 TS%

Tim Duncan
'99: 23.2-11.5-2.8-57 TS%
'03: 24.7-15.4-5.3-58 TS%
'05: 23.6-12.4-2.7-53 TS%
'07: 22.2-11.5-3.3-56 TS%

Kobe in '01 was better than Duncan in all of his runs except 2003 even though he didn't win Finals MVP.


:facepalm Try watching games and not relying completely on stats. Duncan > your boy. Sorry, that's just how it is. And you're going to tell me Kobe is better just because he scores a bit more? Last I checked, 23/12 with 3 BPG a superior shooting percentage, and elite defense is much better than what Kobe did.

[Hank]

:facepalm Try watching games and not relying completely on stats. Duncan > your boy. Sorry, that's just how it is. And you're going to tell me Kobe is better just because he scores a bit more? Last I checked, 23/12 with 3 BPG a superior shooting percentage, and elite defense is much better than what Kobe did.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/pro--sports/flashB.gifhttp://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/pro--sports/flashB.gifhttp://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/pro--sports/flashB.gif

you make too much sense. Kobe trolls think shooting more shots than anyone else in the league every year pumping point totals on poor FG% is Top-10 material

lol. the idiots

[Deuce Bigalow]

:facepalm Try watching games and not relying completely on stats. Duncan > your boy. Sorry, that's just how it is. And you're going to tell me Kobe is better just because he scores a bit more? Last I checked, 23/12 with 3 BPG a superior shooting percentage, and elite defense is much better than what Kobe did.
I did watch the games, and I remember Kobe raping San Antonio in the Playoffs especially in the 4th quarters throughout the last decade.

Kobe's career is better and even though Kobe was drafted a year before Duncan and played thousands of more minutes, he's still better than Timmy.

[D.J.]

I did watch the games, and I remember Kobe raping San Antonio in the Playoffs especially in the 4th quarters throughout the last decade.

Obviously, you didn't. The Lakers beating San Antonio the majority of the time doesn't automatically rank Kobe over Duncan. The true sign of a homer when he ranks his own superstar over another because his team won in the playoffs most of the time.



Kobe's career is better and even though Kobe was drafted a year before Duncan and played thousands of more minutes, he's still better than Timmy.


And I'll give you evidence that shows Duncan's career was better:


-Despite having 1 fewer ring, Duncan was the alpha dog on all 4 of his titles where as Kobe was the alpha dog on only 2

-Duncan has 3 Finals MVPs to Kobe's 2

-Duncan has 2 MVPs to Kobe's 1

-Duncan has not received All-Defensive nominations based on reputation

[Dictator]

Obviously, you didn't. The Lakers beating San Antonio the majority of the time doesn't automatically rank Kobe over Duncan. The true sign of a homer when he ranks his own superstar over another because his team won in the playoffs most of the time.





And I'll give you evidence that shows Duncan's career was better:


-Despite having 1 fewer ring, Duncan was the alpha dog on all 4 of his titles where as Kobe was the alpha dog on only 2

-Duncan has 3 Finals MVPs to Kobe's 2

-Duncan has 2 MVPs to Kobe's 1

-Duncan has not received All-Defensive nominations based on reputation

Look at what kobe's still doing now compared to duncan.......

[Deuce Bigalow]

And I'll give you evidence that shows Duncan's career was better:


-Despite having 1 fewer ring, Duncan was the alpha dog on all 4 of his titles where as Kobe was the alpha dog on only 2

-Duncan has 3 Finals MVPs to Kobe's 2

-Duncan has 2 MVPs to Kobe's 1

-Duncan has not received All-Defensive nominations based on reputation
SO Duncan > Kareem & Bird then because:


-"Alpha" rings - Duncan 4, Kareem 2, Bird 3

-FMVP - Duncan 3, Kareem 2, Bird 2

-ALL-Defensive Teams - Duncan 8 1st, 5 2nd, 13 total, Kareem 5 1st, 6 2nd, 11 total, Bird 0 1st, 3 2nd, 3 total

Duncan > Kareem & Bird

[D.J.]

Look at what kobe's still doing now compared to duncan.......


Kobe hasn't won a ring or been to the Finals since '10. And that doesn't make Kobe better than Duncan. It just means his longevity is better.



SO Duncan > Kareem & Bird then because:


-"Alpha" rings - Duncan 4, Kareem 2, Bird 3

-FMVP - Duncan 3, Kareem 2, Bird 2

-ALL-Defensive Teams - Duncan 8 1st, 5 2nd, 13 total, Kareem 5 1st, 6 2nd, 11 total, Bird 0 1st, 3 2nd, 3 total

Duncan > Kareem & Bird


How about you try watching games and not using bullshit stats like TS%?

[Deuce Bigalow]

How about you try watching games and not using bullshit stats like TS%?
I just gave you reasons why they are better using your reasons :oldlol:

Anybody that uses "alpha" rings doesn't understand basketball :oldlol:

[D.J.]

I just gave you reasons why they are better using your reasons :oldlol:

Anybody that uses "alpha" rings doesn't understand basketball :oldlol:


I've already proven you wrong. You very clearly don't understand basketball. And you claim you watched the games. Obviously you didn't.

[Heavincent]

Anybody that uses "alpha" rings doesn't understand basketball :oldlol:

I've always thought the "alpha" rings thing was ****ing stupid as well. Kobe was a top 3 player for 2 of his 3 rings with Shaq, so I don't really give a shit about the meaningless "lead dog" BS. Many of the all time greats would have been second options if they played with peak Shaq.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I've already proven you wrong. You very clearly don't understand basketball. And you claim you watched the games. Obviously you didn't.
:oldlol:

whatever you say "alpha" rings :lol

[Eat Like A Bosh]

It's arguable that he is right now. He already has 19,000+ points, nearly 5000 rebounds and 4000+ assists, in just 9 seasons. He already has a title, Finals MVP and 3 MVPs, and a good amount of all NBA selections.

Guys like West, Oscar, Barkley, Malone, Hondo, Pettit don't really have much over LeBron now, and will most likely not have anything over him once LeBron's raw stats pile up.

[Hank]

Look at what kobe's still doing now compared to duncan.......

yeah Duncan just got farther in the playoffs while Kobe is shot jacking like a total idiot (as always) leading the league in shots taken to pump up his point totals, on abysmal 43% shooting

Tim Duncan >>> Kobe the stringbean Bryant

all day and every day

[goldenryan]

So if Dwight wins a ring next year is he top 15? He would be even with Lebron right?

[Quickening]

So if Dwight wins a ring next year is he top 15? He would be even with Lebron right?

So D Fisher is same level as Kobe right, its all about team accomplishments when ranking PLAYERS.:lol :roll: :applause:

How many MVPs does Howard have?

[Raz]

MAYBE NOW YOU SEE????????????????????? :rolleyes:

You should compare their stats over their first 9 years.

Also, Malone had a much bigger impact on the game.

[Raz]

So if Dwight wins a ring next year is he top 15? He would be even with Lebron right?

No way.

I really struggle to see LeBron as top 20 all-time. He wouldn't have a championship if he didn't have Wade and Bosh. He would pretty much have Dominique's or Drexler's career.

[Quickening]

No way.

I really struggle to see LeBron as top 20 all-time. He wouldn't have a championship if he didn't have Wade and Bosh. He would pretty much have Dominique's or Drexler's career.

No one cares what a retard like you struggles to see.:applause:

[Raz]

No one cares what a retard like you struggles to see.:applause:

You just gave yourself applause. Just like bosh pouring the champagne on himself.

I'm never a homer, or a hater, however in this case I'll make an exception. LeBron is my most disliked player ever. He's career is a skidmark on the otherwise clean underwear of the history of the NBA. I think he is a fraud, the NBA created him and give him special treatment (he travels on almost every drive), he is extremely uneducated, he's a smug asshole, he is disloyal, he is an overrated stat-padder, and the only reason he has had success is due to teaming up with Wade.

If his knees exploded tomorrow, I'd pay for a full page ad in a Miami newspaper to laugh at him.

So no, I do not see him as one of the best players of all time. I struggle to put him in the top 20 without puking.

[lilblingy]

Bron is top 15 of all time, i have him around #13 or so. but people in this thread saying 1 more ring will have Lebron surpass Kobe are retarded. since when was 3 MVP + 2 rings(2 fmvp) > 1 MVP 5 rings (2 FMVP)? oh wait, we are suppose to disregard 3 of Kobe's rings? sounds fair...:facepalm

[I LUV KOBE]

with .5 cheap ring, in my honest and unbiased opinion I think he already crack the top 50 at best..

[Jax]

Bron is top 15 of all time, i have him around #13 or so. but people in this thread saying 1 more ring will have Lebron surpass Kobe are retarded. since when was 3 MVP + 2 rings(2 fmvp) > 1 MVP 5 rings (2 FMVP)? oh wait, we are suppose to disregard 3 of Kobe's rings? sounds fair...:facepalm
So you're gonna disregard Lebron's 3MVPs too? Maybe 4 since we're talking "hypotheticals"...
Lebrons skill alone destroys Kobe, add the stats, Kobe stands no chance. He's not above Shaq anyway, so that's how far he goes.

[PistolPete44]

hordes of insecure kobetards...

[jlauber]

MVP was voted on by the players back then. Is there any doubt that he would have won another MVP in 1961 when he put up 50/26 if it was voted on by the media?

Great post (although you meant 61-62.)

I get accused of "copying-and-pasting", and while I ACTUALLY do very little of it, I do keep solid lists, and I always quote myself when I use them.

Here is an example...


Think about this...

In the '60 season, Chamberlain not only won the ROY, he won the MVP. He took a LAST PLACE roster, to a 49-26 record. In the process, he averaged 37.6 ppg, 27.0 rpg, and shot a career low .461. Russell and his SIX HOF teammates went 59-16. And, Russell averaged 18.2 ppg, 24.0 rpg, and shot a career high .467.

Jump to the '62 season. Russell leads his SIX HOF teammates to a 60-20 record. In the process, he averaged 18.9 ppg, 23.6 rpg, and shot .457. Meanwhile, Chamberlain took the core of that same LAST PLACE roster, only older and WORSE, to a 49-31 record. And, in doing so, he averaged 50.4 ppg, 25.7 rpg, and shot .506 (in a league that shot .426.)

Guess what...Russell won the MVP.

Now, look closely at that second scenario again. Compare what Russell did individually and with his team, from that '60 season, and when he did NOT win the MVP, with what he and his team did in that '62 season. THEN, compare what Chamberlain did individually and with his team, from that '60 season, and what he and his team did in that '62 season.

Tell me what changed? Russell and his team played the exact same way. And Wilt did FAR more in '62 than what he did in '60, when he won the award.

Oh, and BTW, Wilt was voted first-team NBA over Russell in that '62 season.



Furthermore, I could make STRONG cases for Wilt in '64, '69, and '72 (especially using the Russell-Wilt comparison of '62.)

The REALITY was, Chamberlain was probably ROBBED of at up to FOUR more MVP's.

Now, what would Wilt's resume look like with EIGHT MVP awards? In any case, he SHOULD have more than four.

And CavsFan already addressed the NONSENSE about Wilt only having ONE FMVP. Had the FMVP award existed in '67, Chamberlain would have been a UNANIMOUS winner.

Then think about this...Wilt was probably NINE points away, COMBINED, from winning FOUR more rings.

Where would Chamberlain rank with EIGHT MVP awards, and SIX rings (especially since Russell would have dropped from 11 down to seven)?

[lilgodfather1]

The only two players that you listed that have a case over LeBron are West, and Malone (not Karl).

In 5 years time with no more rings, no more MVP's, no more all star selections, no more defensive team selections, no more finals, and no more all NBA team selections LeBron's stats will be somewhere around 30,000 points, 7,000 rebounds, and 6,000 assists. Are there any players in NBA history that have those stats? Let's check it out shall we?

MJ - Nope
KAJ - Nope
Malone - Nope

Ok let me just say nobody has those stats. Does that make him top 10 all time with 3 MVP's, 1FMVP, and the slew of other awards and records he has? No not in my opinion, but it makes him #11 rather easily.

Sit back and think about those numbers. A 32 year old with 30/7/6. A 32 year old that could play another 6 years if he wanted to. A 32 year old that has the body to be able to dominate for a few more year (but does he have the mind to do so?).

If LeBron averages a mere 2195 (26.8ppg) a year he will be over 30K by the time he is 32 which is insane considering Kobe is almost 34 and not even over 30K yet. This magnificent feat might only take LeBron 1099 games (Kobe is already at 1161, and it will take him at least another 19 games (at 26ppg) to get to 30K bringing him to 1180 and 81 (ironic no?) games more than LeBron).

LeBron will very likely be at minimum the 10th best player of all time as he will likely win at least another MVP award, and has the potential to win multiple championships.

[Hank]

hordes of insecure kobetards...

so hilarious isn't it !?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Jef]

i ****ing hate lebron. i hate him. im still mad he won a title.

but if you have one game to save your life, you pick MJ first, a big man of your choice, and then you pick lebron.

lebron is one of the most physically dominant forces in team sports history.

im sick to my stomach when i think about the fact that he is possibly about to dominate the sport in a previously unseen all-around way.

im an okc/durant/westbrook fan by the way. lebron, at least physically speaking, SHOULD end up better than mj. he wont because even if he has the IT gene, the MJ gene still trumps all. as people have said on this board, mj entered 4th quarters down 15 and everyone on earth knew he would still win. lebron doesnt quite have that, but in terms of sheer physical talent lebron is an unreal force for the ages.

i am kind of finally coming around to the whole kobe thing. i always hated him so much that i was blinded. he was/is great. he is an alltimer.

but let's face it - if lebron doesnt end up better than kobe, it's a choke job. kobe deserves full alltime level credit for his ability and will, but lebron SHOULD end up higher. SHOULD. not necessarily WILL, but SHOULD.

[Boston C's]

with .5 cheap ring, in my honest and unbiased opinion I think he already crack the top 50 at best..


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

this is the kind of shit I'm talking about in terms of the hate lebron gets (from kobe stans) and vice versa (see kobe bryant and lebron james thread)

[Fudge]

Its like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Bill Russell
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon/Kobe Bryant
10. Kobe Bryant/Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Lebron James
12. Moses Malone
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Jerry West
15. Julius Erving

GET OVER IT
:roll:
So mad.

15. LeBron James

Get over it!

[LakersReign]

Lebron is definitely top 12 of all time...

Jerry West? Pfff.... 1 FMVP/Championship, 0 MVPs... thats it...

Julius Erving? Pfff.... in the NBA he got 1 MVP and was only 1 time champion without any FMVP...

Hondo? This sidekick? Haha.... absolutely NOTHING over Lebron...

Karl Malone? 2 MVPs vs 3 MVPs & 1 FMVP/CHampionship.... :facepalm

Oscar Robertson? 1 MVP... averaged once a triple double... the time he got one championship he was out of his prime and sidekicking Kareem.... :rolleyes:

and so on and so on........




The only guy who Lebron is tied with the #11-#12 spot is Moses Malone who himself has 3 MVPs and 1 FMVP/Championship.... enough with all-star selections, 1st all-nba, 1st all-defensive, POTM, Rookie of the Year and so on.......... only Moses Malone....

More proof that bandwagon Lebron fans aka Lebronytes, like you know absolutely nothing about anything, which includes basketball. Yeah moron, Jerry West is the NBA logo cuz he never got an MVP. It's obvious you're clueless as top who West is, and what he contributed to the NBA. So, I'd really shut the hell up if I were you:hammerhead:

Pure mind boggling stupidity:facepalm

[Hank]

More proof that bandwagon Lebron fans aka Lebronytes, like you know absolutely nothing about anything, which includes basketball. Yeah moron, Jerry West is the NBA logo cuz he never got an MVP:hammerhead:

Pure mind boggling stupidity:facepalm

You Kobe/Laker fans are so beyond dumb and braindead. Not only do you not know anything about players who played on your own team, but we all see how Faker fans like you know nothing about the rest of the league.

He was right you PH-AG. Jerry West NEVER won league MVP you stupid f*ck faker fan

now you know why everyone calls you "Faker" fans.

[LakersReign]

You Kobe/Laker fans are so beyond dumb and braindead. Not only do you not know anything about players who played on your own team, but we all see how Faker fans like you know nothing about the rest of the league.

He was right you *******. Jerry West NEVER won league MVP you stupid f*ck

...says this stupid ****("hank") who OBVIOUSLY can't read. Love it how he blew up the font and is STILL way too stupid to understand what it said:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[WockaVodka]

Lebron is definitely a top 15 player of all-time. I would say top 15 at the least. I don't see much of an argument for 15 players better than him.

[Fudge]

You Kobe/Laker fans are so beyond dumb and braindead. Not only do you not know anything about players who played on your own team, but we all see how Faker fans like you know nothing about the rest of the league.

He was right you PH-AG. Jerry West NEVER won league MVP you stupid f*ck faker fan

now you know why everyone calls you "Faker" fans.
Pretty sure he's implying that pauk weighs players so much on regular season MVP's and nothing else.

[Fudge]

1. Michael Jordan
2. KAJ
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Oscar Robertson
12. John Havlicek
13. Jerry West
14. Moses Malone
15. LeBron James

Is how i have it atm.

When it's all said and done, and if his career pans out the way these LeBron fanboys are playing it, then he'll hover around Shaq and TD.

[WockaVodka]

are ridculious. look at who they are placing him above

Jerry West
Hondo
Oscar Robinson
Julius Ervin
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
George Mikan (GOAT pre-Russell)

Right now he's still at the KG, Dirk, Stockton,D-Rob, Thomas top 25ish. alittle above Pierce,kidd, and Pippen.
LeBron is ahead of all of them except maybe Erving, West, and Oscar.

Hondo really? He was like what Manu was back then and Manu is not close to what Lebron currently is.
Moses? Their career was about the same but LeBron was a better player
Karl? This shouldn't be much of a debate, LeBron was just better as well and accomplished more.

[LakersReign]

Pretty sure he's implying that pauk weighs players so much on regular season MVP's and nothing else.

What I'm simply saying is, pauk is a typical know nothing about basketball, prior to '03 when Lebron showed up bandwagon Lebron fan. They know nothing about the game, yet sit there trying to form opinions about it, like they've been longtime fans. They try to discredit anybody's accomplishments to the game, while ALWAYS overhyping Lebron's. There isn't a single person who really know the game, who is going to try and discredit Jerry West's contribution to the NBA. But here goes this clown, "oh...well....West only won 1 title and a FMVP, but he never won an MVP and Lebron has 3........so he doesn't compare to Lebron. " Then then sit there and try to tell you they know about basketball:roll:

[WockaVodka]

1. Michael Jordan
2. KAJ
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Oscar Robertson
12. John Havlicek
13. Jerry West
14. Moses Malone
15. LeBron James

Is how i have it atm.

When it's all said and done, and if his career pans out the way these LeBron fanboys are playing it, then he'll hover around Shaq and TD.
Havlicek? Really? And in the top 12? :facepalm Can you even name me one thing he was better than Lebron in? Being put in a luckier and better situation doesn't count either.

Hondo is top 20 at best and I don't even think he is top 20, more like top 30.

[Fudge]

Havlicek? Really? And in the top 12? :facepalm Can you even name me one thing he was better than Lebron in? Being put in a luckier and better situation doesn't count either.

Hondo is top 20 at best and I don't even think he is top 20, more like top 30.
:roll:

Killing me, StateOfMind, you're killing me.

[WockaVodka]

:roll:

Killing me, StateOfMind, you're killing me.
:confusedshrug: So are you going to tell me what Hondo was better than LeBron in or what?

[Fudge]

:confusedshrug: So are you going to tell me what Hondo was better than LeBron in or what?
I don't need to. I just find it insanely ridiculous and amusing how OVERRATED LeBron's been getting 9 seasons into his career. Lets not put him in the "top 11" category alright? :oldlol: Now hop onto your main account and wait till LeBron's career is all said and done. Maybe, just maybe you'll see my list change.

[WockaVodka]

So you still can't name me ONE thing that Hondo did better than LeBron and Hondo is #12 on your list while LeBron is #15. :rolleyes:

No agenda at all here.

By the way kid, I have no problem with LeBron not being in the top 11 cause he probably isn't in mine either but Hondo is not ahead of him.

[Hank]

[

i don't like him he's not like Kobe who's a corvette. Lebron is like a Hummer

More like a Magic Johnson/Shaquille O'Neal hybrid...but plays much better defense

[Fudge]

So you still can't name me ONE thing that Hondo did better than LeBron and Hondo is #12 on your list while LeBron is #15. :rolleyes:

No agenda at all here.

By the way kid, I have no problem with LeBron not being in the top 11 cause he probably isn't in mine either but Hondo is not ahead of him.
He is to me. Definitely. Not a decade into his career and your putting LeBron James over Hondo? Get real. Low-key popping LeBron fanboys. :no:

[WockaVodka]

He is to me. Definitely. Not a decade into his career and your putting LeBron James over Hondo? Get real. Low-key popping LeBron fanboys. :no:
Why shouldn't LeBron be put above Hondo? What did Hondo do better than LeBron? Heck, what did Hondo do that LeBron didn't? Win a couple of titles with Bill Russell, the greatest winner in sports history? Being placed in a luckier situation doesn't make you better.

Also, I am indifferent towards LeBron and I don't care about him at all but putting Hondo all the way up to #12 and ahead of Lebron is just a red flag that shows me that you need to be informed. If you had put say Julius Erving instead of Hondo then I wouldn't have made any comment about your post what so ever.

[Hank]

lol Fudge is getting owned and Fudge-Packed :oldlol:

[Fudge]

Why shouldn't LeBron be put above Hondo? What did Hondo do better than LeBron? Heck, what did Hondo do that LeBron didn't? Win a couple of titles with Bill Russell, the greatest winner in sports history? Being placed in a luckier situation doesn't make you better.
Calling that a "lucky situation". Typical boy logic. What did Wilt do that Shaq couldn't/didn't? Bill Russell? Kareem? Nothing. All of those guys are placed above Shaq on almost every list. Shaq was the more dominant player. Success really plays a big factor, which is why i'm not discrediting LeBron's game, but rather waiting for LeBron's career to wind down, how his career pans out. Where's Karl Malone in peoples top 12 list? Nowhere near. As talented of a player he was, he lacked team credentials. Hondo's a proven multiple-time winner. College and NBA. Call me when LeBron's in his (max) 11th season, and you'll probably see him crack the Top 11. As of right now, I even have Moses ahead of him.

[Fudge]

lol Fudge is getting owned and Fudge-Packed :oldlol:
"Hank".

[KingBeasley08]

I got Lebron at the #12 spot as of now

[rodman91]

With that career, he deserves to be in at least top 15.

[DatAsh]

Calling that a "lucky situation". Typical boy logic. What did Wilt do that Shaq couldn't/didn't? Bill Russell? Kareem? Nothing.

:facepalm

Wilt - Defense, Rebounding, Passing
Russell - Defense, Rebounding, Improving the play of his teammates, Passing
Kareem - Defense

All three of those guys did several things much better than Shaq. Wilt did pretty much everything better than Shaq: He was a better scorer, much better rebounder, MUCH better defender, and a much better passer.

Get real.

[Fudge]

:facepalm

Wilt - Defense, Rebounding, Passing
Russell - Defense, Rebounding, Improving the play of his teammates, Passing
Kareem - Defense

All three of those guys did several things much better than Shaq. Wilt did pretty much everything better than Shaq: He was a better scorer, much better rebounder, MUCH better defender, and a much better passer.

Get real.
:facepalm

[StateOfMind12]

:roll:

Killing me, StateOfMind, you're killing me.
I'm really not sure what is more pathetic.

The fact that I'm on this guy's mind so much that he randomly accuses a poster of being me, the fact that this guy has Hondo in his top 12 and above LeBron, or the fact that this guy is a Tracy McGrady fan.

I think this guy being a Tracy McGrady fan is probably the most pathetic to be honest.

[Fudge]

I'm really not sure what is more pathetic.

The fact that I'm on this guy's mind so much that he randomly accuses a poster of being me, the fact that this guy has Hondo in his top 12 and above LeBron, or the fact that this guy is a Tracy McGrady fan.

I think this guy being a Tracy McGrady fan is probably the most pathetic to be honest.
Nah I have a social life. I don't have time to operate 10 accounts on here like you do. So no, you are not on my mind so much. :oldlol:

T-Mac = GOAT. Deal with it.

[StateOfMind12]

Nah I have a social life. I don't have time to operate 10 accounts on here like you do. So no, you are not on my mind so much. :oldlol:

T-Mac = GOAT. Deal with it.
The fact that you keep talking about makes me believe you do and if I had to take a guess your other accounts would be either that ganja guy or tmacman or both. They're both idiots and they both suck off that **** McGrady like you do, wait Tracy doesn't have a dick or balls so they probably eat out McGrady like you do, sorry.

lol Tracy McGrady fan, how many playoff series wins does that guy have?

[Fudge]

The fact that you keep talking about makes me believe you do and if I had to take a guess your other accounts would be either that ganja guy or tmacman or both. They're both idiots and they both suck off that **** McGrady like you do, wait Tracy doesn't have a dick or balls so they probably eat out McGrady like you do, sorry.

lol Tracy McGrady fan, how many playoff series wins does that guy have?
You seem like that dude in an argument that stays on the exact page and refreshes until you see a response. Relax. You try way too hard. :oldlol:

A big fat ZERO. Doesn't take away the fact that he's GOAT though.

:rockon:

[Fudge]

:applause: :applause: :applause:
:rockon:

[Dave3]

Not sure if you're serious or just trolling, but since no one is answering, here goes.


Calling that a "lucky situation". Typical boy logic.
Or just typical logic. You're really going to try and argue that being drafted to a 17 win team isn't a significantly more difficult situation than being put on a 60 win team that had won a championship the previous year and had Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Sam Jones, and Tom Heinsohn? If this isn't a huge factor to you that lights up right away when comparing rings, then there's no point in reading the rest of my post, as logic will be a common theme throughout.



What did Wilt do that Shaq couldn't/didn't?
Really? You need to ask that? A 50 ppg season, a 26 rpg season, hundreds and hundreds of NBA records, absolutely dominating everyone around him both defensively and offensively to the point where the NBA had to change both free throw and goal tending rules just to stop him from dominating so much? Are you seriously pretending Wilt couldn't do anything more than Shaq?


Bill Russell? Really? The guy who was the best player on the most dominant dynasty that singlehandedly could change a team into a dominant defensive force? The one who throughout his prime always had his team either first or second in opponent scoring? The best winner in NBA history did nothing better than Shaq?



Kareem? Nothing. Once again, Kareem did nothing better? The most points in NBA history (Shaq has 10K less), over 17K rebounds (Shaq barely has over 13K) and the guy who averaged 35 17 and 5 for an entire season while being the best player on at least as many championship teams as Shaq was (3 times, the 4th Wade was obviously the better player). What else did he do better than Shaq? I don't know, lead the league in blocks 4 times, rebounds, and career averages of 25 11 and 4 over a 20 year career? Really? All of those things are nothing to you? Keep in mind, my argument isn't the fact that his career was longer, but that his numbers were that good over a 20 year career.



All of those guys are placed above Shaq on almost every list. With solid reasoning. They had better numbers, bigger impact relative to their eras, or just flat out dominated for much longer.[/QUOTE]


Shaq was the more dominant player. Yet those were the guys that either averaged 50 ppg, 35/17/5 (and all time leading scorer) or where the best defensive force of all time relative to his era, so while Shaq may have been the most dominant recently, all of them have arguments (very strong ones) for being the most dominant in their era.[/QUOTE]


Success really plays a big factor, which is why i'm not discrediting LeBron's game, but rather waiting for LeBron's career to wind down, how his career pans out.
Which makes no sense. You're saying that your basketball opinion of LeBron will change if he plays 7 more years (lets say 78 games a season) and averages 13.5/5.6 /2.5 over those 7 years, he'd finally be above Hondo? You ask why are those numbers so crap? Because that's what he'd need to average over 7 seasons to have the same numbers as Hondo in the same amount of seasons. Oh, and not to mention that would also include no more MVP's (oh yeah, LeBron has 3 to Hondo's nothing), no more fMVPs, no more all NBA first teams (he already has more 1st team nominations) and just one more All NBA first team defense (and you know LeBron is getting many many more of those). So, no awards, and 7 years of 14/6/3 for LeBron to pass Hondo in your opinion. Seems like a sound opinion...




Where's Karl Malone in peoples top 12 list? Nowhere near. Actually most people have him in their top 15-18. I'd consider 15 near 12, but that's just me.



Hondo's a proven multiple-time winner.

So is Bob Cousy, Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, and anyone who was lucky enough to play on a dynasty that won 9 rings in 11 years.


College Irrelevant, this is all time NBA ranking.


and NBA. Call me when LeBron's in his (max) 11th season, and you'll probably see him crack the Top 11. As of right now, I even have Moses ahead of him.

Once again, logic makes no sense. He already has more MVPs, more All NBA 1st team selections, better stats in pretty much every category, better scorer, better defender, better rebounder, better playmaker, more athletic, better leader, and almost singlehandedly dragged terrible teams to multiple 50 win seasons, multiple playoff series victories, and multiple 60 win seasons. You're comparing a bonafide leader and carrier of teams (with near godly stats) to a guy who was maybe the best player on his team once or twice in his career. To put it a different way, you're putting a guy that was top 3 in the league maybe once in his entire career over a guy who's been the best player in the league 4 years running, and top 3 in the league for about 7 years running. Maybe it's just me, but when I rank basketball players, I like to actually consider how they played basketball over the situation they were put in. Again, that's just me though.

[TheCorporation]

3 MVPS
1 FMVP
Scoring Champion
Rookie of the year
#3 all time ppg (I think?)
-Extremely dominant and best player in the NBA since 2008 or 2009 to Present.

Averaged 30/10/5 with 50% during playoffs, as eventual Finals MVP. Only player in NBA history to do this.

[HurricaneKid]

my top ten is broke up into two tiers(and it has 12 players)
tier 1
bird-jordan-wilt-magic <--- these are the nodoubters, the best players in the history of the game
tier 2
kobe-shaq-kaj-russell-west-oscar-hakeem-duncan

lebron currently is in tier 3

i do believe that lebron has a chance to make it into the tier 1 group and go down as one of the greatest players of alltime

KAJ is in Kobe's tier? Christ.

Lets ignore that KAJ was 88-2 and won 3 MOP and 3 Nat'l Champs his last 3 years at UCLA. Lets just look at NBA success.

KAJ comes into the league and wins ROY avg 28.8/14.5/4.

He wins the MVP in his second year, leading the Bucks (yes, those ones) to an NBA title by SWEEPING the Bullets. They lost only two postseason games.

Here are his NBA rankings in PER his first 12 years (starting with his rookie year)

2
1
1
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
2
1

Never mind the ROY. I don't blame Kobe for not getting that. But we talk about Kobe's longevity. Its nothing compared to KAJs. Kobe has NEVER been in the top two in PER. KAJ was 35 when his 1st NBA season ended when he wasn't #1 or #2 in PER.

[DatAsh]

:facepalm

So you concede that you made a dumb statement?

[Lebron23]

3 MVPS
1 FMVP
Scoring Champion
Rookie of the year
#3 all time ppg (I think?)
-Extremely dominant and best player in the NBA since 2008 or 2009 to Present.

Averaged 30/10/5 with 50% during playoffs, as eventual Finals MVP. Only player in NBA history to do this.

Repped

[G-train]

are ridculious. look at who they are placing him above

Jerry West
Hondo
Oscar Robinson
Julius Ervin
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
George Mikan (GOAT pre-Russell)

Right now he's still at the KG, Dirk, Stockton,D-Rob, Thomas top 25ish. alittle above Pierce,kidd, and Pippen.

I think people are under-estimating what they have the pleasure of seeing right now. With both Lebron and Kobe, and even Wade if healthy again.