Is LeBron on par with Kobe with another ring/Finals MVP?

[D.J.]

Most would agree that Kobe is somewhere around 10 on the all-time list right now. If LeBron wins another ring and/or Finals MVP, does that put him at least on par with Kobe? In addition, we'll assume LeBron doesn't win MVP and neither does Kobe, but earns All-NBA 1st team and All-NBA Defensive 1st team. With Kobe, let's say he's on the All-NBA 2nd team and no All-Defensive team. This is how it would look:


Kobe(in 17 seasons)
-5 rings
-2 Finals MVP's
-1 MVP
-10 All-NBA 1st teams
-2 All-NBA 2nd teams
-2 All-NBA 3rd team
-9 All-NBA Defensive 1st teams
-3 All-NBA Defensive 2nd teams


LeBron(in 10 seasons)
-2 rings
-2 Finals MVP's
-3 MVP's
-7 All-NBA 1st teams
-2 All-NBA 2nd teams
-0 All-NBA 3rd teams
-5 All-Defensive 1st teams
-0 All-Defensive 2nd teams


And this is with LeBron playing in 7 fewer seasons.

[ripthekik]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Vienceslav]

There is a thread about this.

[9erempiree]

no.

but once Kobe retires, I can see Lebron being the next Kobe.

Unfortunately we have already found our next Kobe in Lebron. It will be his mantle.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Another title and finals mvp playing similar to and/or better than this past playoff run? Definitely in the discussion.

[Hank]

"on par" ?? lol

Lebron is light years better than Kobe "the stringbean" ever was

[Dictator]

No. 3 titles and Lebron equals or passes Kobe. Kobe's 3rd title was 100% legit 1b to Shaq 1a. MVP is a different story it isn't a clear cut.

[code green]

Kobe > LeBron

That's not going to change no matter what LeBron does.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Lebron would NOT be on par with his idol, Kobe Bryant.
Lebron needs a lot more winning and no more choking.

[9erempiree]

Another reason why he would not be on par with Kobe is Kobe's magnitude on the game and the world.

He is as loved and hated as Michael Jordan. MJ was a global icon and so is Kobe.

Lebron doesn't have that affect on people.

Kobe is the modern day MJ.

Lebron doesn't come close as those two in the history of the NBA.

[REACTION]

I'd say it would put him in the Kobe stratosphere, but I don't think it would break LeBron into the top 10 yet. It'd get him a lot closer though and would be very impressive for his career.

[lbj23clutch]

Add a another mvp and a dpoy along with another ring/finals mvp and then we have a discussion.


Something like this:

4 MVP's, 2 ring's, 2 finals MVP's and 1 DPOY

[lebeast666]

lol Kobrick still relevant? Kobe is Lebrons b!tch :oldlol: When Lebron wins fmvp and ring next year he would have surpassed Kobe even though he's already been better than Kobrick ever was.

[kennethgriffin]

its number of rings by mvp winners

not number of mvps by ring winners



moses malone = 3 mvps, 1 ring

ranked below guys like

hakeem olajuwon = 1 mvp, 2 rings
shaquille o'neal = 1 mvp, 4 rings
tim duncan = 2 mvps, 4 rings


see the trend

the only guy whos higher than 10th all time that only has 2 rings is wilt... and thats because he averaged like 30/20 career and 10 theoretical blocks... put up 100 in a game and averaged 50/25 for a season

[Heavincent]

Nope.

[DaSeba5]

Nope

[Quickening]

Yes obviously.. 4 mvps and 2 final MVP with superior stat line throughout his career... Why would Kobe be higher, because he was a side kick to a prime Shaq for 3 years...

[Kobe 4 The Win]

No

[NumberSix]

Par? ffffffuq no

[WockaVodka]

If he wins in the same style he won this season, he would surpass him.

[pauk]

Yes.

[creepingdeath]

Most would agree that Kobe is somewhere around 10 on the all-time list right now. If LeBron wins another ring and/or Finals MVP, does that put him at least on par with Kobe? In addition, we'll assume LeBron doesn't win MVP and neither does Kobe, but earns All-NBA 1st team and All-NBA Defensive 1st team. With Kobe, let's say he's on the All-NBA 2nd team and no All-Defensive team. This is how it would look:


Kobe(in 17 seasons)
-5 rings
-2 Finals MVP's
-1 MVP
-10 All-NBA 1st teams
-2 All-NBA 2nd teams
-2 All-NBA 3rd team
-9 All-NBA Defensive 1st teams
-3 All-NBA Defensive 2nd teams


LeBron(in 10 seasons)
-2 rings
-2 Finals MVP's
-3 MVP's
-7 All-NBA 1st teams
-2 All-NBA 2nd teams
-0 All-NBA 3rd teams
-5 All-Defensive 1st teams
-0 All-Defensive 2nd teams


And this is with LeBron playing in 7 fewer seasons.
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/not%20sure%20if%20serious/grand/arnold_not_sure_if_serious_gif.gif

[LEFT4DEAD]

Im sure there is no person who thinks that Lebron will not be higher than guys like Shaq, Duncan, Bird at least, let alone Kobe, when his career ends, including Kobetards themselves.

[scandisk_]

3x titles then we'll talk :cheers:

[Jacks3]

No. :coleman:

[Hank]

everyone else knows. Only kobetards are in total denial :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Let Kobe get at least 1 more MVP and improve his efficiency and MAYBE he can be on par with LeBron.

[DirtySanchez]

LeBron(in 10 seasons)
-2 rings
-2 Finals MVP's
-3 MVP's
-7 All-NBA 1st teams
-2 All-NBA 2nd teams
-0 All-NBA 3rd teams
-5 All-Defensive 1st teams
-0 All-Defensive 2nd teams

2 rings 2 Finals Mvps....

Nope still would not cut it.

[DFish]

Not until LeChoke wins a total of three or more titles. I don't expect him to ever reach Kobe's number of championships, but just one more won't cut it if LeBeta expects to approach Kobe on the GOAT list.

[sodap]

lebron is the best player in the nba, the problem is he brings little excitement. Kobe and a bunch of others are far better as entertainers, the have more soul. lebron is like a robot. thats the problem with him

[Calabis]

No........, let LBJ's career finish first, then let's revisit this question.

[AlonzoGOAT]

lebron is the best player in the nba, the problem is he brings little excitement. Kobe and a bunch of others are far better as entertainers, the have more soul. lebron is like a robot. thats the problem with him

Unfortunately entertainers have to do nothing with being a better player damn

[Hank]

Don't mind the haters who only make things up.

This Looks pretty entertaining to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ4XBslOQbY

[Soundwave]

I'd say yeah for sure.

The main difference in their careers really is that LeBron wasn't gift wrapped a prime Shaq to play with right out of high school.

[noosaman]

So lebron wins a title with 2 superstars and wins it the least impressive run in NBA history and now he's an all time great? LOL.

[Mach_3]

Is LeBron on par with Kobe with another ring/Finals MVP?

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[lilblingy]

Kobe has 3 more rings. Lebron needs to win at least 2 more rings in pure dominant fashion to be on par with guys like Kobe/Shaq/Duncan. 3 more if wade returns to form.

[General]

I'd say yeah for sure.

The main difference in their careers really is that LeBron wasn't gift wrapped a prime Shaq to play with right out of high school.
So is Lebron better than Magic because he was gift wrapped Kareem?:rolleyes:

[Nash]

Statistically and through share dominance, Lebron is better. Now if he adds a few more rings I'm pretty sure Lebron will be ahead of Kobe. Basically because Kobe has never been a better player than Lebron.

[Baby Arm Johnso]

I'm wondering how old most of you guys are?

anybody remember Magic Johnson? went to the NBA finals 8 times in 10 years and won 5 times? Jordan never lost in the NBA finals. Bill Russell has how many rings?

Lebron has a ways to go before he's even in this conversation. He is 1 for 3 in the NBA finals

Kobe is 5 for 7, so no lebron winning 2 out of 4 isn't really close . . . yet

[b4uc.23]

Statistically and through share dominance, Lebron is better. Now if he adds a few more rings I'm pretty sure Lebron will be ahead of Kobe. Basically because Kobe has never been a better player than Lebron.

This.

[eliteballer]

LeBron racking up stats by dominating the ball, choking(Orlando 2009, Dallas 2010), struggling to get through a joke conference with Wade and Bosh as teamates shows he was never as good as people blinded by stats thought and will never be on par with Kobe.

[D.J.]

LeBron racking up stats by dominating the ball, choking(Orlando 2009, Dallas 2010), struggling to get through a joke conference with Wade and Bosh as teamates shows he was never as good as people blinded by stats thought and will never be on par with Kobe.


How did he choke against Orlando?


LeBron against Orlando in '09 averaged 38.5 PPG/8.3 RPG/8.0 APG/1.2 SPG/1.2 BPG.

[Jacks3]

I have him at #11 now.

So he probably does surpass him with another ring/Finals MVP.

Hate to say it. :(

[General]

I have him at #11 now.

So he probably does surpass him with another ring/Finals MVP.

Hate to say it. :(
:facepalm

[Kobr]

I'm wondering how old most of you guys are?

anybody remember Magic Johnson? went to the NBA finals 8 times in 10 years and won 5 times? Jordan never lost in the NBA finals. Bill Russell has how many rings?

Lebron has a ways to go before he's even in this conversation. He is 1 for 3 in the NBA finals

Kobe is 5 for 7, so no lebron winning 2 out of 4 isn't really close . . . yet

This.

[greymatter]

As far as career accomplishments go, probably not.

As far as peak play is concerned, one guy was the clear-cut best player in the game for only a single season (05-06) while the other has clearly been the league's best player since 07-08.

The former, Lebron has a reasonable shot at surpassing. The latter he already wins in a landslide.

[RazorBaLade]

As far as career accomplishments go, probably not.

As far as peak play is concerned, one guy was the clear-cut best player in the game for only a single season (05-06) while the other has clearly been the league's best player since 07-08.

The former, Lebron has a reasonable shot at surpassing. The latter he already wins in a landslide.

lold


lold at entire thread

lolololol

[greymatter]

lold


lold at entire thread

lolololol

A kobestan has a distorted view of reality. In other news, water is still wet.

[RazorBaLade]

A kobestan has a distorted view of reality. In other news, water is still wet.

Meanwhiel a lebron stan and kobe hater gives a perfectly accurate and rational outlook

[NumberSix]

lebron is the best player in the nba, the problem is he brings little excitement. Kobe and a bunch of others are far better as entertainers, the have more soul. lebron is like a robot. thats the problem with him
Yeah, it's not like he literally jumps over people for 1 handed alley-oops or anything.

[PistolPete44]

why must the Kobe stans act tough... god they look hateful

[Lebron23]

why must the Kobe stans act tough... god they look hateful


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

You are trolling these fools.

[Lordragoonx1x]

I say yes. If lebron wins MVP, title and fmvp next year he will be on par with kobe.

[ripthekik]

I'm wondering how old most of you guys are?

anybody remember Magic Johnson? went to the NBA finals 8 times in 10 years and won 5 times? Jordan never lost in the NBA finals. Bill Russell has how many rings?

Lebron has a ways to go before he's even in this conversation. He is 1 for 3 in the NBA finals

Kobe is 5 for 7, so no lebron winning 2 out of 4 isn't really close . . . yet
this. one ring won with a top 2 sg and top 5 pf and all of a sudden he's top 10? A lot of people could win with those teammates. Not to mention the weak east. He basically had to play through one series to get the ring.

[cavsfanatic]

Another reason why he would not be on par with Kobe is Kobe's magnitude on the game and the world.

He is as loved and hated as Michael Jordan. MJ was a global icon and so is Kobe.

Lebron doesn't have that affect on people.

Kobe is the modern day MJ.

Lebron doesn't come close as those two in the history of the NBA.
Lebron is a much bigger star than Kobe. Media been on his nuts since he was 17 and he is the topic of every discussion

[cavsfanatic]

How did he choke against Orlando?


LeBron against Orlando in '09 averaged 38.5 PPG/8.3 RPG/8.0 APG/1.2 SPG/1.2 BPG.
he listens to Skip Bayless say it and thinks it's true. The Magic series was Lebron's best series he ever played. He was unstoppable that whole series

[Nash]

this. one ring won with a top 2 sg and top 5 pf ]and all of a sudden he's top 10? A lot of people could win with those teammates. Not to mention the weak east. He basically had to play through one series to get the ring.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jP2CG_ZpxJA/T5m-b05o72I/AAAAAAAAPhs/SMvCehhMcW8/s1600/brokenrecord.jpg

[LBJDW305]

Why would another MVP bring him down to kobes level?

[Ne 1]

Nope. Kobe won 5 championships putting up 21/5/4, 29/7/6, 27/6/5, 30/5/6 and 29/6/6. Why would 2 rings and 2 Finals MVP (which Kobe already has, although FMVP is a pretty useless award anyway) put him on par?

[Jax]

Nope. Kobe won 5 championships putting up 21/5/4, 29/7/6, 27/6/5, 30/5/6 and 29/6/6. Why would 2 rings and 2 Finals MVP (which Kobe already has, although FMVP is a pretty useless award anyway) put him on par?
So now FMVP are useless? :roll: :roll: :roll:
THEY SCARED NOW!

[PistolPete44]

So now FMVP are useless? :roll: :roll: :roll:
THEY SCARED NOW!
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Quickening]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:roll: :applause:

[ripthekik]

Indeed, this guy is definitely GOAT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFe8KUEQdn4

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[lebeast666]

Indeed, this guy is definitely GOAT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFe8KUEQdn4

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

He will be the goat...better than Kobrick has ever been and only halfway through his nba career

[boxclever]

Long Answer : Nope

Short Answer : No

[truhooper]

"on par" ?? lol

Lebron is light years better than Kobe "the stringbean" ever was

:cheers:

[boxclever]

Lebron is a much bigger star than Kobe. Media been on his nuts since he was 17 and he is the topic of every discussion
This really isn't true

[KingBeasley08]

:roll: :applause:
:oldlol:

[GoldenKnight]

He will be the goat...better than Kobrick has ever been and only halfway through his nba career

Not.

[tmacattack33]

If he plays amazing next year in the playoffs, then yes.

What will be an issue next yr though is that no matter how well he plays, we probably won't be able to just how well he does....because he'll have Wade, Bosh, and Allen with him (assuming that two of them don't get injured).

2012 will probably be Lebron's most impressive year because he got past the second round and ECF without Bosh.

[Redoks]

I don't want to underestimate Kobe on his first 3 rings but he was not the main reason they won them. 2 rings won't really put Bron on this " All time champions list". With 3 he would definetly be on par with kobe as long as he gets 3 finals mvp.

[GoldenKnight]

If he plays amazing next year in the playoffs, then yes.

What will be an issue next yr though is that no matter how well he plays, we probably won't be able to just how well he does....because he'll have Wade, Bosh, and Allen with him (assuming that two of them don't get injured).

2012 will probably be Lebron's most impressive year because he got past the second round and ECF without Bosh.

Bosh finished the ECF, and it's not like LeBron didn't have that one guy, what was his name? Oh yea, 2006 Finals MVP Dwyane Wade.

[Ne 1]

So now FMVP are useless? :roll: :roll: :roll:
THEY SCARED NOW!

It is a pretty useless award. It didn't even exist until 1969, had it did Bill Russell would have more than anyone.

Kareem was flat out robbed of the 1980's FMVP in favor of a popular, charismatic teammate and we are to act as if the award is legit? Paul Pierce, Tony Parker, Cedric Maxell, Joe Dumars, and Chauncey Billups all have FMVP's. Even John freaking Starks came within one shot of winning a FMVP.

[Hank]

Bosh finished the ECF, and it's not like LeBron didn't have that one guy, what was his name? Oh yea, 2006 Finals MVP Dwyane Wade.

Wade played on one leg through the playoffs and Bosh missed half the playoffs.

You were one of those bozos who said Miami didn't stand a chance against Indiana's length and frontcourt without Bosh in the lineup.

so what happened ?? :oldlol:

[Hank]

Bosh finished the ECF, and it's not like LeBron didn't have that one guy, what was his name? Oh yea, 2006 Finals MVP Dwyane Wade.

Wade played on one leg through the playoffs, and Bosh missed half the playoffs.

You were one of those bozos who said Miami didn't stand a chance against Indiana's length and frontcourt without Bosh in the lineup.

so what happened ?? :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

i think kobes finals mvps will be hard to match for lebron... kobe won them while averaging 10+ more ppg than gasol ... twice ( with one other star compared to lebrons 2 )


when shaq won mvps.. kobe averaged like 0.5 less ppg in the regular season of 2001... and 0.1 less ppg in the playoffs


this is when you say "who cares who won finals mvp.. both are legends


lebron fans dont understand this


would be like if lebron won in 2011 averaging 17ppg as his teams third leading scorer

ofcourse then lebron would get sha***t on


but if he averaged around the same as wade ( at 27ppg ) then yea... we woulda counted it much the same way we count kobes with shaq


kobes only legit 2nd man title was 2000 when he averaged 23/5/5 and 21/5/5 in the playoffs

and even then... those are wade like stats from this playoffs.. and everyone gives him credt



its all agenda driven bs from everyone on this forum... why cant people be subjective... there is no black and white in basketball.. its all situational.

no ring is created equally... there are different levels of prestige for everyone

[NumberSix]

^ The difference is that LeBron lead his team in virtually everything.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

^ The difference is that LeBron lead his team in virtually everything.
except 4th quarter excellence.

[ripthekik]

Wade played on one leg through the playoffs, and Bosh missed half the playoffs.

Damn, Wade with one leg put up 17/25 40 points 10 rebounds. :lol

He must be impossible when he's healthy.. what happened in 2011?:oldlol:

[NumberSix]

except 4th quarter excellence.
Do you actually believe that's true? :confusedshrug: