Jason Kidd vs. Allen Iverson

[StateOfMind12]

Who do you guys have ranked higher in your all-time list or in other words, who will you guys remember as the better player and had the better career?

[TheFastOne]

Who do you guys have ranked higher in your all-time list or in other words, who will you guys remember as the better player and had the better career?
Iverson. Not a single doubt.

[kentatm]

It's Kidd all the way. It's not even close really.

[ripthekik]

Iverson better player.
Kidd better career.

edit: wow, don't know what happened here :roll:

[Doctor K]

kidd all the way

both are inefficient, Kidd though improves and helps teammates and plays D

[I LUV KOBE]

Iverson better player.
Nash better career.
You mean Kidd.. :D

[Meticode]

Iverson better player.
Nash better career.
:oldlol: Someone's got Nash on the brain.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kidd by far.

[DTreats]

If I want to win, sell tickets, be a successful franchise give me a rookie Iverson to start my franchise with. If I want to be mediocre, and have my face of the franchise be a wife beating piece of sh-t, then give me Kidd.:cheers:


AI >

[Meticode]

Jason Kidd. Iverson is overrated to me. Iverson is nothing but a 5'11" Ben Gordon who got the green light to shoot as many shots as he wanted to. Sure, his heart and determination birthed them into the playoffs, but his aspect of not playing "team" basketball never got them to the Finals.

"How is practicing going to make my teammates better?"

[3peated]

Jason Kidd. Iverson is overrated to me. Iverson is nothing but a 5'11" Ben Gordon who got the green light to shoot as many shots as he wanted to. Sure, his heart and determination birthed them into the playoffs, but his aspect of not playing "team" basketball never got them to the Finals.

"How is practicing going to make my teammates better?"
Not even once?

[Mach_3]

Jason Kidd. Iverson is overrated to me. Iverson is nothing but a 5'11" Ben Gordon who got the green light to shoot as many shots as he wanted to. Sure, his heart and determination birthed them into the playoffs, but his aspect of not playing "team" basketball never got them to the Finals.

"How is practicing going to make my teammates better?"
Soooo im gonna go ahead and assume u dont know a damn thing about allen iverson

Moving on...

This is a tough one, i think i might have to go with Iverson thouh

[WockaVodka]

Jason Kidd. Iverson is overrated to me. Iverson is nothing but a 5'11" Ben Gordon who got the green light to shoot as many shots as he wanted to. Sure, his heart and determination birthed them into the playoffs, but his aspect of not playing "team" basketball never got them to the Finals.

"How is practicing going to make my teammates better?"
Who made the Finals in 2001?

[kenny817]

Jason Kidd. Iverson is overrated to me. Iverson is nothing but a 5'11" Ben Gordon who got the green light to shoot as many shots as he wanted to. Sure, his heart and determination birthed them into the playoffs, but his aspect of not playing "team" basketball never got them to the Finals.

"How is practicing going to make my teammates better?"



Idiot

[FreezingTsmoove]

Allen Iverson

He got to the rim and lane at will, incredibly clutch, played pretty good D

[GOBB]

Jason Kidd. Iverson is overrated to me. Iverson is nothing but a 5'11" Ben Gordon who got the green light to shoot as many shots as he wanted to. Sure, his heart and determination birthed them into the playoffs, but his aspect of not playing "team" basketball never got them to the Finals.

"How is practicing going to make my teammates better?"

5'11? :wtf: Why did you shrink him.

AI carried Sixers to the Finals and won MVP. Two things Ben Gordon never did nor will ever. You're clueless.

[Smoke117]

Jason Kidd...and quite easily. Stop making these "so and so vs Allen Iverson" threads.

[willds09]

um tha guy who was 97 ROTY, 01 AND 05 ALL STAR MVP, 01 Finals, 01 season mvp, who cud dat be??:confusedshrug:

[midatlantic09]

Iverson.

[FreezingTsmoove]

The answer is extremely underrated on this board.

[kNIOKAS]

Iverson. Not a single doubt.
you gave me doubts. about your psyche

um tha guy who was 97 ROTY, 01 AND 05 ALL STAR MVP, 01 Finals, 01 season mvp, who cud dat be??:confusedshrug:
who's the guy ahead of Wilt Freaking Chamberlain in triple doubles?
http://www.sportscity.com/nba/nba-all-time-triple-doubles-181/


nah, but seriously... Please make a case for Iverson, because I cannot really see it now. Although I love me some AI.

[WockaVodka]

um tha guy who was 97 ROTY, 01 AND 05 ALL STAR MVP, 01 Finals, 01 season mvp, who cud dat be??:confusedshrug:
2 all-star MVPs is your argument? Really? Succeeding a glorified pick up game is not a big deal.

[willds09]

2 all-star MVPs is your argument? Really? Succeeding a glorified pick up game is not a big deal.
man dont be a hater:lol

[willds09]

you gave me doubts. about your psyche

who's the guy ahead of Wilt Freaking Chamberlain in triple doubles?
http://www.sportscity.com/nba/nba-all-time-triple-doubles-181/


nah, but seriously... Please make a case for Iverson, because I cannot really see it now. Although I love me some AI.
iverson 6foot scoring titles, kidd never had a scoring title

[k0kakw0rld]

I love A.I, I miss him but Kidd all day everyday

[Clippersfan86]

Kidd. Iverson is a legend and an all time great... but Kidd impacted the game on so many more levels. Give me a 20 point triple double over a 40 point game any day.

[LT Ice Cream]

Kidd. Probably easier to build a team around him. After all, basketball is a team sport, you know.

[blacknapalm]

is this a joke? kidd.

talk about AI being a warrior and incredible scorer for his size.

after that, you're left with what? a guy who only scored a lot because he shot a ton, and whose teams almost never experienced success. people love to talk about how he led his team to a finals berth (never mind they lost in 5 games), but don't mention the fact that he made the playoffs in only 8 of 13 seasons. they lost in the 1st round in 4 of those and lost in the conference semis in 3. ya, he had some bad teams along the way but AI was just never a guy you could build a championship team around. you couldn't necessarily do that with kidd either but you had a better shot.

AI was a low efficiency, volume shooter who needed the ball in his hands to be effective. those types don't win in this league.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'm going with Kidd. He was the best passer and playmaker in the league during his prime. His ability as a pure passer is arguably top 5 all-time, and you could say the same about his basketball IQ. But he was also an amazing rebounder for his size. He was the best at getting rebounds that hit the floor, and his ability to grab rebounds and loose balls helped him start the break himself. He was a really special player in transition, and his ability in transition as well as his ability to start the break was a key to the Nets success because he didn't play with much offensive talent, and in a slow-paced era, but on good defensive teams, so those fastbreak points added up, and could spark runs. Kidd was also a fantastic help defender in his prime, one of the best in the league on the perimeter, but also a versatile 1 on 1 defender, who had the ability to guard shooting guards. I wouldn't say he was ever the best at defending point guards, but he was better when he was younger. He was one of those rare players who saw plays that almost nobody else saw, and was as good as I've seen at making something happen out of nothing. His intangibles were on par with Bird and Magic. Despite his limited scoring ability, he was willing to assert himself offensively when his team needed it, and I remember him being a player who seemed to thrive in clutch situations.

Their peaks are closer, and harder for me to determine. Iverson really had a phenomenal season in 2001. His stamina was remarkable, he'd run off screens all night, could almost always get off a shot, and he was one of the all-time great volume scorers. His style of play might not work with every team, but he was playing the way his coach wanted him to with how the team was built. Aside from his ability to get hot with his outside shot, his quickness and ball-handling ability made him so tough off the dribble. Even when he missed shots, he often created offensive rebounds for his teammates because he'd penetrate or force an extra defender to help out. He wasn't a big assist guy that year because Larry Brown had him playing shooting guard and playing without the ball more with Eric Snow and Aaron McKie often handling the ball and as the Sixers top 2 assist guys. But Iverson also showed a lot of ability as a playmaker, remember the 16 assist game 7 vs the Raptors. And his toughness and heart rivaled any player who has played this game, and seemed to inspire his teammates. Iverson's ability to carry the offensive load was a big reason why this team worked because he was surrounded by a cast that excelled at defending and rebounding. Aaron McKie and Dikembe Mutombo were his only teammates with any real offensive ability, and Iverson also was also surrounded by very weak 3 point shooters.

Kidd on the otherhand had all of the qualities I mentioned before from his prime, but had improved his shooting significantly by '03, and he was making 1.6 threes per game at a respectable 34%. He also stepped up his scoring this year, which was a necessity because the lost his best offensive teammate from the previous season Keith Van Horn, and he really didn't have a teammate who was particularly capable of creating his own shot. Martin and Jefferson were athletic finishers who complemented Kidd well, but Kidd also didn't have any real shooters. Kerry Kittles was about it. Kidd stepped up to a 19/6/9, 2.2 spg season that year and 20/8/8 in the playoffs. He had also stepped up to a 20/8/9 playoff run in '02 after a 15/7/10 regular season. Kidd was actually scoring even better in '03 before some nagging injuries. Before Kidd strained his groin in late January, he was averaging 20.4 ppg on 44% shooting(about league average), and very respectable TS% of 54.6% and an eFG% of 48.6% thanks to his 3 point shooting. The Nets were 30-14 at that point, he also had tendinitis in his foot about a month later which caused his numbers to drop more.

I think I'll lean towards Kidd for peaks because while his scoring still paled in comparison to Iverson, he was providing quite a bit of scoring in addition to his passing, rebounding, defense and intangibles, and I see his style working on more teams without needing as much of a specialized cast.

I primarily judge players by their primes, so it's not one of the harder comparisons because much of their primes overlapped. Kidd's prime was from '99-'04, since the microfracture surgery occurred after '04, and he was 31 by that time. He did remain an elite PG and all-star caliber player until '07, though. Iverson's prime may have been from about '01-'06, but he was close by '99 when Larry Brown moved him to shooting guard and Iverson thrived leading the Sixers to the second round. He was the best shooting guard during the '99 season before Kobe surpassed him the following year. Iverson was still a star player through '08, though, and actually had his most efficient season that year.

1999- Kidd
2000- Kidd
2001- Iverson
2002- Kidd
2003- Kidd
2004- Kidd (Iverson really struggled this year due to injuries and people thought he was breaking down and declining)

Iverson then had a comeback year in '05 ironically when he moved back to PG and had arguably his second best season. He surpassed Kidd as Kidd started to decline.

2005- Iverson
2006- Iverson
2007- Kidd
2008- Iverson (Kidd really fell off this year).

While this isn't the deciding factor, it is impressive how Kidd transitioned late in his career to a supporting player when he came back to the Mavs. His passing was still really valuable, his size allowed him to guard bigger players, his intangibles were still there of course, he was still among the best rebounding guards, and his greatly improved jumper also helped the transition. In the '09 and '10 seasons, he remained top 5 in assists and steals, while he also finished 3rd in made 3s in '10 making 2.2 per game and shooting 43% on them. A 10/6/9 season for a point guard who turned 37 is pretty damn impressive, not many players that age play 36 mpg either. And his passing, shooting, defense and intelligence made an impact on the Mavs championship team in 2011. He wasn't the player he once was, but I still remember some of those trademark Kidd plays from that postseason.

I consider both to have impressive longevity considering the season Iverson had in '08 when he was 32 and in his 12th year, and both were good players from the start. Iverson's ability to make an impact on a winning team was questionable his first 2 years, but the individual ability was already there. Kidd started out on some bad Mavs teams, though they were a young team with some selfish players and a horrendous 13-69 the year before he got there, but improved to 36-46 in Kidd's rookie year, of course, veteran coach Dick Motta replacing rookie coach Quinn Bucker had something to do with it. Especially since Buckner's attempt to install the triangle offense failed miserably since he didn't know the offense well himself, he couldn't talk Tex Winter into becoming an assistant coach for the Mavs, and he had a young, selfish team. Kidd's jump shot was really terrible, and he looked to push the ball more when he was young, but he was really quick back then, and you could already see his rare ability as a passer.

Unfortunately, Iverson's career ended poorly, while the late part of Kidd's career, now as a role player has been the icing on the cake. I get carried away with a lot of these comparisons and make long posts, so I bolded my pick for those that don't want to read all this and just want to see my selection.

[Reggie43]

Iverson

[WockaVodka]

If I want to win, sell tickets, be a successful franchise give me a rookie Iverson to start my franchise with. If I want to be mediocre, and have my face of the franchise be a wife beating piece of sh-t, then give me Kidd.:cheers:


AI >
Kidd will lead you to mediocrity, yet he made it to the Finals more times than Iverson did and won more tittles than Iverson did.

[D.J.]

I have Iverson ranked higher. Former MVP, 4x scoring champ, and played at such a high level for 12 years. This was a guy who was averaging around 43 MPG in his prime, got to the line at will, went through quite a few injuries, and was so explosive as a scorer. Honestly, I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did. Even as a sub 6 footer, he was fearless in attacking the hoop.

With all that being said, I'd still rather have prime Kidd on my team over prime Iverson. Kidd makes his teammates better, doesn't gamble as much on D while actually locking guys down, and could impact games without scoring a single point. Basically, the only guys at PG capable of doing that aside from Kidd were Magic, Stockton, Nash, and maybe Payton.

[blacknapalm]

Kidd will lead you to mediocrity, yet he made it to the Finals more times than Iverson did and won more tittles than Iverson did.

the irony of his comment is that iverson is the one who missed the playoffs entirely five times and lost in the 1st round 4/8 times he made it. yet, kidd is mediocre :lol

in 9/13 of iverson's seasons, he never made it past the first round.

[L.Kizzle]

Basically Walt Frazier vs Earl Monroe. You always take Clyde, (even though Pearl was damn good.)

[WockaVodka]

Basically Walt Frazier vs Earl Monroe. You always take Clyde, (even though Pearl was damn good.)
I think it's more like Dominique vs. Pippen.

[caved]

i say Iverson

[schism206]

For a guy his size, Iverson's overall career accomplishments are more impressive to me. But I'd much rather have Jason Kidd on my team. Much smarter player. Iverson was an athletic freak, and amazing talent, and gave his all on the court, don't get me wrong. But I just don't think he was nearly as intelligent a player as Jason Kidd. I also don't think teams that have a PG who plays like an SG, that is "the man" have a very good chance of winning a chip.

[atljonesbro]

If you want someone who can carry a Franchise Iverson. If you want someone who needs other good players to suceed Kidd.

[Freedom Kid7]

Kidd. Kidd's defense was great, his play making was great, one of the best BBall IQ guys to have and could run an offense well. His rebounding was great too. The only thing he couldn't really do was shoot the ball and score well, but he did everything else so well it made up for it. Iverson's determination and heart was great, but he had a lot of flaws (as much as Kobe haters like to say his shooting effeciency is bad and he should feel bad, look at Iverson).

[D.J.]

If you want someone who can carry a Franchise Iverson. If you want someone who needs other good players to suceed Kidd.


Kidd took a Nets team to the Finals that had Kerry Kittles, Keith Van Horn, 2nd year Kenyon Martin, Todd MacCulloch, Lucious Harris, rookie Jason Collins, and rookie Richard Jefferson. Not exactly top notch talent.

[roffie]

i choose Kid Cudi

[markymark]

Jason Kidd. Iverson is overrated to me. Iverson is nothing but a 5'11" Ben Gordon who got the green light to shoot as many shots as he wanted to. Sure, his heart and determination birthed them into the playoffs, but his aspect of not playing "team" basketball never got them to the Finals.

"How is practicing going to make my teammates better?"

A hillbilly comment from a Cleveland hillbilly.

[ImmortalD24]

Give me Jason Kidd.

[GOBB]

Iverson is ranked higher. Next topic please.

[rodman91]

AI

[StateOfMind12]

Iverson is ranked higher. Next topic please.
I don't believe it is that obvious considering how a decent amount of posters have also said that Kidd was better.

Feel free to explain your reasoning on why Iverson was better though.

[Meticode]

A hillbilly comment from a Cleveland hillbilly.
Thanks for your opinion. I appreciate it.

[miles berg]

Both! They are both badass.

[Mach_3]

5'11? :wtf: Why did you shrink him.

AI carried Sixers to the Finals and won MVP. Two things Ben Gordon never did nor will ever. You're clueless.

I've stood next to Iverson before he's barely 5'11 and no where near the 6'0/ 6'1 i hear people routinely claim him as. He's at most 5'11 in shoes which makes what he did over his career even more impressive imo

[Meticode]

Blah.

[Meticode]

People are misunderstand my post on Iverson severely.

I was saying he didn't lead to them to the Finals playing "team" basketball. Which means he lead them playing on his own, for himself. Ultimately they got to the Finals because of Iverson. Ultimately they lost the Finals, again, because of Iverson. His style of play and the way the teams were constructed around him never had the ability to win a championship.

Thank you for all the knee-jerk reactions.

[Mach_3]

People are misunderstand my post on Iverson severely.

I was saying he didn't lead to them to the Finals playing "team" basketball. Which means he lead them playing on his own, for himself. Ultimately they got to the Finals because of Iverson. Ultimately they lost the Finals, again, because of Iverson. His style of play and the way the teams were constructed around him never had the ability to win a championship.

Thank you for all the knee-jerk reactions.

...So your mad because he didn't get there playing team ball yet still lead his team to the finals with essentially no jumpshooters and no one capable of creating their own shot without Iverson's penetration ability. What did you want Iverson to do? Forcefeed everyone else and watch them brick jumpshots and get stripped repeatedly on drives to the rim? He probably took more bailout shots in that 01 season than any of Kobe's Lakers down seasons. It's not like the guy says before each game "im taking 30 shots tonight"

And to blame them losing the 01 finals on Allen Iverson is laughable at best. Maybe if Mutombo was capable of holding Shaq to mortal like numbers even once in this series or if someone could stop Kobe from waltzing into the lane whenever he wanted they might have had a chance.

And calling Iverson a glorified Ben Gordan is like calling Jordan a glorified Monta Ellis. borderline retarded

[Meticode]

...So your mad because he didn't get there playing team ball yet still lead his team to the finals with essentially no jumpshooters and no one capable of creating their own shot without Iverson's penetration ability. What did you want Iverson to do? Forcefeed everyone else and watch them brick jumpshots and get stripped repeatedly on drives to the rim? He probably took more bailout shots in that 01 season than any of Kobe's Lakers down seasons. It's not like the guy says before each game "im taking 30 shots tonight"

And to blame them losing the 01 finals on Allen Iverson is laughable at best. Maybe if Mutombo was capable of holding Shaq to mortal like numbers even once in this series or if someone could stop Kobe from waltzing into the lane whenever he wanted they might have had a chance.

And calling Iverson a glorified Ben Gordan is like calling Jordan a glorified Monta Ellis. borderline retarded
Thanks for your post man. Good explaining. :rockon:

[Mach_3]

Thanks for your post man. Good explaining. :rockon:


http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/cautious-kobe-mask-meme.jpg

[stylesp]

Lol Meticode, did you see who was on that roster on that 2000-2001 76ers team? Did you want Iverson to pass to Aaron McKie or Eric Snow? Those were about his only role players on that team who could have possibly scored or facilitated a play but they couldn't even do that. Mutombo was past his prime so what did you expect Larry Brown to do with that team? To let Iverson shoot and drive to the rim.

[nycelt84]

Jason Kidd has him beat on longevity and his peak wasn't that far behind Iverson's peak. I take Kidd.

[Bigsmoke]

kidd

[Replay32]

People are misunderstand my post on Iverson severely.

I was saying he didn't lead to them to the Finals playing "team" basketball. Which means he lead them playing on his own, for himself. Ultimately they got to the Finals because of Iverson. Ultimately they lost the Finals, again, because of Iverson. His style of play and the way the teams were constructed around him never had the ability to win a championship.

Thank you for all the knee-jerk reactions.

Actually they lost in the finals because of Shaq and kobe. Anyway I'll take Kidd. Barely.