The only players to average 20/12/3 or better in their NBA rookie seasons

[BGriffin's Dad]

only 4 players (http://bkref.com/tiny/XcBk1)

sorted by FG %:


Kareem (28.8 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 4.1 APG on 51.8%)
Griffin (22.5 PPG, 12.1 RPG, 3.8 APG on 50.6%)
Baylor (24.9 PPG, 15.0 RPG, 4.1 APG on 40.8%)
Pettit (20.4 PPG, 13.8 RPG, 3.2 APG on 40.7%)


rookie Kareem was a beast :applause:

http://i.imgur.com/Z1jxS.jpg

[BGriffin's Dad]

do you guys think any other rookie will put up those types of numbers anytime soon?

a lot of people are expecting a big rookie season from Anthony Davis, but i can't see him entering the 20/12/3 or even 20/10/3 tier

[KyrieTheFuture]

Davis will not score that much his rookie season. It's possible that a rookie will put it up again since it happened so recently but no one in the next few years. Wiggins maybe but he won't average that many boards.

[Overdrive]

only 4 players (http://bkref.com/tiny/XcBk1)

sorted by FG %:


Kareem (28.8 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 4.1 APG on 51.8%)
Griffin (22.5 PPG, 12.1 RPG, 3.8 APG on 50.6%)
Baylor (24.9 PPG, 15.0 RPG, 4.1 APG on 40.8%)
Pettit (20.4 PPG, 13.8 RPG, 3.2 APG on 40.7%)


rookie Kareem was a beast :applause:

Shaq had 24/13.5/2/3.5 iirc.

Aside from that Davis won't score enough. He will be a capable score some time his career but not good enough for 23(*edit 20) as a rookie.

[BGriffin's Dad]

Davis will not score that much his rookie season. It's possible that a rookie will put it up again since it happened so recently but no one in the next few years. Wiggins maybe but he won't average that many boards.

yeah.. Duncan's rookie season came close too

21.1/11.9/2.7 on 54.9%

[BGriffin's Dad]

expanding it 20/10/2.5 you get Oscar, Bird and Duncan too

http://bkref.com/tiny/A6tus

[alenleomessi]

do you guys think any other rookie will put up those types of numbers anytime soon?

a lot of people are expecting a big rookie season from Anthony Davis, but i can't see him entering the 20/12/3 or even 20/10/3 tier
davis wont even average those numbers in his prime...

[broy]

Damian Lillard and his stats will be like 21/5/7

[bmulls]

Tim Duncan put up 21 pts, 11.9 rebounds and 2.7 assists. Pretty damn close, and he was a legitimate rookie. Also averaged 2.5 blocks and shot better than all 4 of the guys you listed (55%).

[BGriffin's Dad]

Tim Duncan put up 21 pts, 11.9 rebounds and 2.7 assists

good effort and all... but not quite enough for the rarefied air that is the 20/12/3 club.

only Kareem, Blake, Elgin and Bob are members :bowdown:

[creepingdeath]

20/12/3... wow, those numbers don't look arbitrary at all. :applause:

[BGriffin's Dad]

20/12/3... wow, those numbers don't look arbitrary at all. :applause:

the 12 rpg might be...

if we expand the search to 20/10/3 (http://bkref.com/tiny/s23cS) we get...


Kareem
Griffin
Bird
Oscar
Wicks
Baylor
Pettit


I guess that does tell a more complete story

[Cherry Picker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQgd6MccwZc

[Linspired]

Wilt

37.6pts/27reb/2.3assists

i guess he was a ballhog. :oldlol:

[jlauber]

Wilt

37.6pts/27reb/2.3assists

i guess he was a ballhog. :oldlol:

Since the OP didn't specify, I suspect that Wilt EASILY averaged a 20-12-3 in his rookie season. Harvey Pollack claimed that Wilt had seasons of 10+ bpg. And, in Wilt's first NBA game, he had a known 43 points, (on 17-27 shooting), with 28 rebounds, and an unofficial 17 blocked shots. Given that information, I don't think there was any question that Wilt was a 38-27-3 guy in his rookie season.

BTW, he also had seasons of 44.8 ppg, 24.3 rpg, and 3.4 apg; and 33.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, and 5.2 apg; as well as 24.1 ppg, 24.2 rpg, and 7.8 apg; and 24.3 ppg, 23.8 rpg, and 8.6 apg.

[liquidrage]

only 4 players (http://bkref.com/tiny/XcBk1)

sorted by FG %:


Kareem (28.8 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 4.1 APG on 51.8%)
Griffin (22.5 PPG, 12.1 RPG, 3.8 APG on 50.6%)
Baylor (24.9 PPG, 15.0 RPG, 4.1 APG on 40.8%)
Pettit (20.4 PPG, 13.8 RPG, 3.2 APG on 40.7%)


rookie Kareem was a beast :applause:

http://i.imgur.com/Z1jxS.jpg

One of these things is not like the other.....

Oh I know I know!!!!!

[BGriffin's Dad]

One of these things is not like the other.....

Oh I know I know!!!!!

Pettit.. the other 3 played in Los Angeles :cheers:

[Colbertnation64]

Pettit.. the other 3 played in Los Angeles :cheers:
False, rookie Kareem and Baylor didn't play in LA either ;)

[BGriffin's Dad]

False, rookie Kareem and Baylor didn't play in LA either ;)

i mean at one point in each of their careers

Bob never played in LA, the other 3 did

[Deuce Bigalow]

Since the OP didn't specify, I suspect that Wilt EASILY averaged a 20-12-3 in his rookie season.* Harvey Pollack claimed that Wilt had seasons of 10+ bpg. And, in Wilt's first NBA game, he had a known 43 points, (on 17-27 shooting), with 28 rebounds, and an unofficial 17 blocked shots*. Given that information, I don't think there was any question that Wilt was a 38-27-3 guy in his rookie season.*

BTW, he also had seasons of 44.8 ppg, 24.3 rpg, and 3.4 apg*; and 33.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, and 5.2 apg*; as well as 24.1 ppg, 24.2 rpg, and 7.8 apg*; and 24.3 ppg, 23.8 rpg, and 8.6 apg*.

Wilt

37.6pts/27reb/2.3assists*

i guess he was a ballhog. :oldlol:
Fixed

[Halcon]

I love how you have set the assits total really low in order to make somebody seem special for being on a short list.

Averaging 3 assits a game, is shit.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I love how you have set the assits total really low in order to make somebody seem special for being on a short list.

Averaging 3 assits a game, is shit.Well the list is all big men.....

And like someone said Shaq was pretty close, and had 3+ blocks.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Wilt averaging that few assists is because assists were ****ing impossible to get back then unlike now. Dude led the league with like 7 one year. Think about that.

[jlauber]

Wilt averaging that few assists is because assists were ****ing impossible to get back then unlike now. Dude led the league with like 7 one year. Think about that.

The year he led the league in assists, he averaged 8.6 apg.
And he was third the year before at 7.8 apg. Then, in the playoffs, he averaged 9.2 apg.

[KyrieTheFuture]

The year he led the league in assists, he averaged 8.6 apg.
And he was third the year before at 7.8 apg. Then, in the playoffs, he averaged 9.2 apg.

You know what I'm saying. Assists were much harder to get back then.

[jlauber]

You know what I'm saying. Assists were much harder to get back then.

:cheers:

[Halcon]

Well the list is all big men.....

And like someone said Shaq was pretty close, and had 3+ blocks.
The fact that this total is "good" for a big man, doesnt make the total itself higher or greater. 3 assists will always be 3 assists. And thats hardly impressive. For anybody.

[Smoke117]

So what? You made this list to make it as if Blake was something special? David Robinson shits all over Griffin his rookie season: 24.3ppg 12.0rpg .531fg% 3.9bpg 1.7spg 2.0apg and most importantly Spurs record 1988-89: 21-61, Spurs record 1989-1990: 56-26 and an impressive playoff run that ended with a 7 game series vs the eventual championship runner up Blazers. Clippers record 2009-10: 29-53, Clippers record 2010-11: 32-50. Get this Blake Griffin shit out of my face. Wow he averaged over 3 assist. Too bad he was only able to bring 3 more wins. David Robinson, Shaq, Zo shit all over Griffin as rookies. I hate when people make threads just to prop up their favorite players. Take this shit elsewhere.

[DFish]

Averaging 3 assits a game for a big man, is shit.

The fact that this total is "good" for a big man, doesnt make the total itself higher or greater. 3 assists will always be 3 assists. And thats hardly impressive. For anybody.

:facepalm Is it babby's first NBA season?

[Sarcastic]

Technically it was Griffin's second season as a pro.

[b1imtf]

Fixed
Thanks man :cheers:

[Clippersfan86]

I was actually about 4 assists a game and anybody who says that's not impressive for a rookie big is a dipshit.

[b1imtf]

I was actually about 4 assists a game and anybody who says that's not impressive for a rookie big is a dipshit.
Durant doesn't find this impressive :durantunimpressed:

[BGriffin's Dad]

The fact that this total is "good" for a big man, doesnt make the total itself higher or greater. 3 assists will always be 3 assists. And thats hardly impressive. For anybody.

yeah, look at these shitty players and their shitty career assists..

Wilt - 4.4 APG
Russell - 4.3 APG
Barkley - 3.9 APG
Kareem - 3.6 APG
Duncan - 3.1 APG
Nowitzki - 2.6 APG
Durant - 2.8 APG
Shaq - 2.5 APG
Hakeem - 2.5 APG
DRobinson - 2.5 APG
Dwight - 1.5 APG
Moses Malone - 1.4 APG

are you ****ing high??? 3+ APG is plenty good for a big man who rebounds 12+ and scores 20+

[BGriffin's Dad]

Durant doesn't find this impressive :durantunimpressed:

Durant? the guy who has never averaged more than 3.5 assists per game in any of his seasons?

and he's a SF... not even a big :roll:

Griffin averaged more assists (3.8) in his rookie season than Durant has... ever

[Halcon]

yeah, look at these shitty players and their shitty career assists..

Wilt - 4.4 APG
Russell - 4.3 APG
Barkley - 3.9 APG
Kareem - 3.6 APG
Duncan - 3.1 APG
Nowitzki - 2.6 APG
Durant - 2.8 APG
Shaq - 2.5 APG
Hakeem - 2.5 APG
DRobinson - 2.5 APG
Dwight - 1.5 APG
Moses Malone - 1.4 APG

are you ****ing high??? 3+ APG is plenty good for a big man who rebounds 12+ and scores 20+
Maybe you missed my point, just because these are average numbers for these types of players, doesnt make the number more impressive. Imagine if you had big that dished out 5-6 assists a game... that would be impressive.

[b1imtf]

Durant? the guy who has never averaged more than 3.5 assists per game in any of his seasons?

and he's a SF... not even a big :roll:

Griffin averaged more assists (3.8) in his rookie season than Durant has... ever
I just wanted to use the smile :( :(

[BGriffin's Dad]

Maybe you missed my point, just because these are average numbers for these types of players, doesnt make the number more impressive. Imagine if you had big that dished out 5-6 assists a game... that would be impressive.

i dont even know what you're talking about...

you said 3 APG for a big man is bad or mediocre?.. it's not... how many bigs average 5-6 assists? that's a lot... Kobe is a 25/5/5 player... Lebron is a 27/7/7 player... Jordan was 30/6/5... and these are the elite guards/forwards... not even big men

[Clippersfan86]

Maybe you missed my point, just because these are average numbers for these types of players, doesnt make the number more impressive. Imagine if you had big that dished out 5-6 assists a game... that would be impressive.

Imagine if Griffin played with a healthy and competent squad in his first season? He WOULD have averaged 5 apg most likely. Now the team adds CP3 a ball dominant PG so of course the number will dip.

[Halcon]

i dont even know what you're talking about...

you said 3 APG for a big man is bad or mediocre?.. it's not... how many bigs average 5-6 assists? that's a lot... Kobe is a 25/5/5 player... Lebron is a 27/7/7 player... Jordan was 30/6/5... and these are the elite guards/forwards... not even big men
Wilt has a few seasons of over 5 apg and even a season with 8 apg... thats impressive. Not just hovering around whats considered "good" for your position. I mean we're talking about 3 freakin assists. In other words we shouldnt be praising a big for his assists unless it's above average or something impressive.



Imagine if Griffin played with a healthy and competent squad in his first season? He WOULD have averaged 5 apg most likely. Now the team adds CP3 a ball dominant PG so of course the number will dip.
And if he did, that would be impressive.



And in response to everybody reading my posts, Im not penalizing them for not averaging more, Im just saying we shouldnt even be looking at their assist unless its unusually high (for for their position).. like when a big averages 5, thats impressive even though its nothing special compared to guards. Thast when we should be saying 'how many bigs can average this many assists?' ... etc.

[Clippersfan86]

Wilt has a few seasons of over 5 apg and even a season with 8 apg... thats impressive. Not just hovering around whats considered "good" for your position. I mean we're talking about 3 freakin assists. In other words we shouldnt be praising a big for his assists unless it's above average or something impressive.



And if he did, that would be impressive.

Tim Duncan, Chris Webber, Pau Gasol and KG are the 4 best passing bigmen of this era. Duncan's career apg is 3.1, Webber is at 4, KG is at 4 and Gasol is at 3.2. So explain why Griffin's 3.5 apg for his career is nothing impressive and why you've set 5 apg as the bar for bigs? :biggums: . Russell Westbrook is a superstar PG and barely averages that. Sounds like you're just being a bitter dick to me.

3.5 apg for a PF's career IS well above the norm.

[BGriffin's Dad]

Tim Duncan, Chris Webber, Pau Gasol and KG are the 4 best passing bigmen of this era. Duncan's career apg is 3.1, Webber is at 4, KG is at 4 and Gasol is at 3.2. So explain why Griffin's 3.5 apg for his career is nothing impressive and why you've set 5 apg as the bar for bigs? :biggums: . Russell Westbrook is a superstar PG and barely averages that. Sounds like you're just being a bitter dick to me.

3.5 apg for a PF's career IS well above the norm.

yeah, seriously...

if Griffin finishes his career with roughly the same PPG and RPG (~20 & 10) and an APG anywhere in the 3s... i'm not gonna call that anything but a success just because he didn't average 5-7 assists like a SG/SF...

[Halcon]

Tim Duncan, Chris Webber, Pau Gasol and KG are the 4 best passing bigmen of this era. Duncan's career apg is 3.1, Webber is at 4, KG is at 4 and Gasol is at 3.2. So explain why Griffin's 3.5 apg for his career is nothing impressive and why you've set 5 apg as the bar for bigs? :biggums: . Russell Westbrook is a superstar PG and barely averages that. Sounds like you're just being a bitter dick to me.

3.5 apg for a PF's career IS well above the norm.
Are you guys not getting my point. Im saying 3 apg is not impressive. Just because its good for a big, doesnt make it a better stat. Yah, you can say Griffen's 3.5 is great for his position, but its not great in general. So who cares.

[Clippersfan86]

Are you guys not getting my point. Im saying 3 apg is not impressive. Just because its good for a big, doesnt make it a better stat. Yah, you can say Griffen's 3.5 is great for his position, but its not great in general. So who cares.

So if a guard averages 7 rpg or let's say 2 bpg it's not far more impressive than if a bigman does it? You bet your fu**ing ass it is :facepalm . Get out of here NOW.

[DFish]

Halcon, sincere question; are you in any way mentally challenged?

[Clippersfan86]

Halcon, sincere question; are you in any way mentally challenged?

:roll:

[BGriffin's Dad]

Are you guys not getting my point. Im saying 3 apg is not impressive. Just because its good for a big, doesnt make it a better stat. Yah, you can say Griffen's 3.5 is great for his position, but its not great in general. So who cares.

position does matter..

do you penalize Wilt or Hakeem for not being career 5-6 APG players? what about Jordan for not averaging 10+ rebounds?

of course position matters

[Clippersfan86]

position does matter..

do you penalize Wilt or Hakeem for not being career 5-6 APG players? what about Jordan for not averaging 10+ rebounds?

of course position matters

He's not valuing what players do outside of the norm for their position. When PG's like Steve Francis and Jason Kidd average 7 rpg that's IMPRESSIVE as fu**. Or when Wade averages about 1.5 bpg for a season etc.

[Halcon]

He's not valuing what players do outside of the norm for their position. When PG's like Steve Francis and Jason Kidd average 7 rpg that's IMPRESSIVE as fu**. Or when Wade averages about 1.5 bpg for a season etc.
I am valuing what players do outside the norm for their position, Im simply stating that some stats are less impressive than others. For instance, Im more impressed with a gaurd averaging 1.5bpg than a big averaging 3apg.

[BGriffin's Dad]

I am valuing what players do outside the norm for their position, Im simply stating that some stats are less impressive than others. For instance, Im more impressed with a gaurd averaging 1.5bpg than a big averaging 3apg.

that's fine, but i wouldn't call a career average of 3.5 assists for a big unimpressive at all

[Overdrive]

I am valuing what players do outside the norm for their position, Im simply stating that some stats are less impressive than others. For instance, Im more impressed with a gaurd averaging 1.5bpg than a big averaging 3apg.

3apg for a big are elite by numbers, the average for a PF or C is about 1pg.

[Kblaze8855]

Something equally important and telling:

Only players to average 18/6(assists)/5(rebounds) as rookies? Oscar robertson, Magic Johnson, and Steve Francis.

[bballnoob1192]

Well the list is all big men.....

And like someone said Shaq was pretty close, and had 3+ blocks.

If the list is for big men why the f@ck include shitty assist stat why not make it FG% or blocks or something closely related to big men

[REACTION]

I mean we're talking about 3 freakin assists. In other words we shouldnt be praising a big for his assists unless it's above average or something impressive.

3 assists per game is above average for big men though. Are there any who average 5+ assists for their career? I can't think of any. Wilt is close with his 4.4. Kareem's 3.6. Garnett had some 5 assist seasons in Minnesota, but he's at 4 for his career. You can't really expect such high assist numbers for big men. Just like you can't expect double-digit rebounding for guards.

[BGriffin's Dad]

If the list is for big men why the f@ck include shitty assist stat why not make it FG% or blocks or something closely related to big men

i did include FG % and lol @ passing not being important for big men

[BGriffin's Dad]

even if you lower it to 20/10/2 (http://bkref.com/tiny/xEDcN) Griffin is still among a select few of great rookie seasons

and better statistically than Duncan's and Robinson's

[BGriffin's Dad]

third season predictions?

[blood yes]

Something equally important and telling:

Only players to average 18/6(assists)/5(rebounds) as rookies? Oscar robertson, Magic Johnson, and Steve Francis.

Lebron averaged 5.9 assists in his rookie year, so lebron is technically part of that club as well

[Clippersfan86]

24 ppg, 12 rpg, 3.5 apg. That's a 3.5 ppg, 1 rpg jump and I expect much improved D and fundamentals in the post.

[rmt]

good effort and all... but not quite enough for the rarefied air that is the 20/12/3 club.

only Kareem, Blake, Elgin and Bob are members :bowdown:

Beyond the stats:

Duncan as a rookie: All-NBA 1st team, All-Defensive 2nd team, 5th in MVP voting.

Griffin needs to learn that basketball is played on both sides of the floor - with that athleticism, there's no reason why he isn't a better defender.

[BGriffin's Dad]

Beyond the stats:

Duncan as a rookie: All-NBA 1st team, All-Defensive 2nd team, 5th in MVP voting.

Griffin needs to learn that basketball is played on both sides of the floor - with that athleticism, there's no reason why he isn't a better defender.

defense is more of a team effort

[Rake2204]

No love for those who averaged 20 & 12 and then at least 3 in another category besides assists? David Robinson averaged 24.3ppg, 12rpg, and 3.9bpg.

[Artillery]

even if you lower it to 20/10/2 (http://bkref.com/tiny/xEDcN) Griffin is still among a select few of great rookie seasons and better statistically than Duncan's and Robinson's

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg613/hairweavekilla1/2n9ztvljpg.gif

[BGriffin's Dad]

implying i'm wrong... check the numbers, art

[Sarcastic]

I have never seen a player regress for the first 3 years of their career the way Blake has.


22.5/12.1/3.8
20.7/10.9/3.2
18.1/8.8/3.2

Usually by year 3, they take off. What's going on with him?

[kurt_rambis]

I have never seen a player regress for the first 3 years of their career the way Blake has.


22.5/12.1/3.8
20.7/10.9/3.2
18.1/8.8/3.2

Usually by year 3, they take off. What's going on with him?

2011 - 38 minutes per game
2012 - 36
2013 - 32

he rarely plays the 4th quarter nowadays. clippers are blowing everyone out

per 36 he's at about 20/10, which is fine, especially since he had a slow start to the season

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I have never seen a player regress for the first 3 years of their career the way Blake has.


22.5/12.1/3.8
20.7/10.9/3.2
18.1/8.8/3.2

Usually by year 3, they take off. What's going on with him?

He's playing on a stacked team. Watch the games.

[Sarcastic]

2011 - 38 minutes per game
2012 - 36
2013 - 32

he rarely plays the 4th quarter nowadays. clippers are blowing everyone out

per 36 he's at about 20/10, which is fine, especially since he had a slow start to the season


His per36 are down every year as well. You want me to post those stats as well?

[Sarcastic]

He's playing on a stacked team. Watch the games.


They were stacked last year? I didn't get that memo, sorry.

[kurt_rambis]

His per36 are down every year as well. You want me to post those stats as well?
marginally down, hardly enough to talk about him 'regressing'

his jump shot percentages are way up, turnovers are down, steals are up, free throw percentage is up from last year. plus he's the leading scorer/rebounder on the (as of right now) best team in the league. he's doing fine

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They were stacked last year? I didn't get that memo, sorry.

Less minutes =/= less production. Not rocket science.

He and CP3 dont even have to play 4th quarters because of how good their bench has been.

[The Nets]

And Blake Griffin is the only one among those players to reach his peak at rookie season and then continues to decline year after year. Lets review this:

Rookie Season: 22/12
Sophomore Season: 20/10
This Season: 18/8
Next Season 16/6

And the trend continues...

[BGriffin's Dad]

I have never seen a player regress for the first 3 years of their career the way Blake has.


22.5/12.1/3.8
20.7/10.9/3.2
18.1/8.8/3.2

Usually by year 3, they take off. What's going on with him?

2013-14: 22.1/10.6/3.0 on 57.1% FG

last year was an anomaly

[poido123]

What is sad is that Blake Griffin is among those prestigious few. :facepalm

[Fiasco]

2013-14: 22.1/10.6/3.0 on 57.1% FG

last year was an anomaly

He's so much better than he was in his rookie year it's not even funny.

[imdaman99]

Anthony Davis is already better than him

[CavaliersFTW]

What an incredibly arbitrary set of numbers.

[La Frescobaldi]

What an incredibly arbitrary set of numbers.
It is.

Still though, Griffin is pretty much a force to be reckoned with

[Tking714]

Damian Lillard and his stats will be like 21/5/7

Pretty damn close. Might get that this year tho

[Fiasco]

What an incredibly arbitrary set of numbers.

They're still pretty good, arbitrary or not.

But I do agree it gives off the "only person to hit a gamewinner with a light chance of showers on the forecast" vibe.

[BGriffin's Dad]

22/12/7/5/57% fg :bowdown:

[KnicksWolves]

22/12/7/5/57% fg :bowdown:

??

[Sarcastic]

Blake finally getting back to putting up his rookie numbers over an 8 game span after 4 years.

:bowdown:

[Fiasco]

Blake finally getting back to putting up his rookie numbers over an 8 game span after 4 years.

:bowdown:

You really don't understand how minutes work, do you.

[AintNoSunshine]

He seriously hasn't gotten better than these years, statistically and from the eye test

[BGriffin's Dad]

30/12/2/63% fg :bowdown:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He's playing better this year. Hope he can keep it up.

[Sarcastic]

You really don't understand how minutes work, do you.


What kind of star gets his minutes reduced in his prime? If your minutes are getting reduced it's cuz you suck, and someone else helps the team more.

[BGriffin's Dad]

umm.. VDN and CP3

[La Frescobaldi]

He seriously hasn't gotten better than these years, statistically and from the eye test

Oh gosh yes he has. The other night he shut down Kevin Love and I've never seen anyone do that before. Granted it was the second night of a back to back for a K Love in a slump but that don't even matter. Griffin never even came close to doing that in past seasons. He's playing at a real high level

[La Frescobaldi]

What kind of star gets his minutes reduced in his prime? If your minutes are getting reduced it's cuz you suck, and someone else helps the team more.
clips were pretty stacked tho, I think that's what he was gettin' at. Blowouts you sit your stars