Would you say the words "pippen" and "sidekick" are synonomous?

[rule1223]

When someone refers to another player as a "good pippen", is that an insult or compliment?

[SilkkTheShocker]

In before Smoke starts bitching about how disrespected Pippen is.......

[Trumpin]

6 rings as a 20/7/5 player, if anyone is using this as an insult he should be shot.

[MJ(Mean John)]

Yeah. Crazy but it's true.

[Dwade305]

Ask 97bulls and SuperPippen, they are unbiased when it comes to talking about Pip.

[Brokenbeat]

People ( kobrick stans ) here act like he's a scrub to be a sidekick 6 times :oldlol:
without pippen jordan would be nothing

That's exactly what the kobestans say, lol.

:biggums:

[Inactive]

It depends on the context.

[Sarcastic]

6 rings as a 20/7/5 player, if anyone is using this as an insult he should be shot.

More like 16/6/5.

[bmulls]

I think calling someone a Pippen is a higher compliment than sidekick. It implies he wasn't the #1 guy but the team probably wouldn't have won without him. Sidekick just has a negative connotation to me.

[Dragonyeuw]

More like 16/6/5.

Those are his career stats, taking into account that his numbers in his first few years and past-prime numbers don't reflect the player he was in his day. Scottie's prime was from 91-98,coinciding with the years the Bulls won titles, and in those seasons he was a 20/7/6/ guy.

[Dragonyeuw]

The term is used in a negative way, and I'm not sure at what point being called a 'Scottie Pippen' became a bad thing. The guy is a top 30 all-time player, one of the most versatile two-way players in league history, and a top 3 all-time perimeter defender. The Cavs fans calling Lebron 'Scottie Pippen' when he first returned to Cleveland was pretty damn ignorant, and shows a lack of knowledge as to the kind of player Pippen was.

[Ne 1]

Well anyone who says "Pippen" as an insult is a complete moron.

Scottie is easily top 20 all-time.He was a winner wherever he went. 6 rings, 9 conference finals, and 16 consecutive years in the playoffs. The GOAT perimeter defender, was a MVP caliber player, and at least a top 5 player (and the best all-around player) and the best SF in his prime.

Also as much as people like to talk about "lead dogs and sidekicks" without their "dispensable sidekick" most of these "lead dogs" are getting knocked out of the playoffs year after year and everyone is questioning their leadership ability.

[97 bulls]

"Second Fiddle" is used as an insullt to Pippen. And its sad because its obvious he was more than a second fiddle. In his two years without Jordan, he was at least a top 5 player in the league, the best small forward of the 90s, and best perimeter defender ever.

Whats more is the notion that Scottie Pippen couldnt lead a team. Thats silly. If he would've faired the same way as Kevin Mchale, then thered be an argument.

[LAClipsFan33]

Pippen was a #1 option playing with one of the most dominant #1 options in NBA history. This made him a #2...he was VERY capable of being a #1 option for almost any team of the league AND was a very good #1 option when Jordan went to go play Baseball

[Mr Exlax]

I'm glad to read so many people sticking up for my guy.

[Sarcastic]

Those are his career stats, taking into account that his numbers in his first few years and past-prime numbers don't reflect the player he was in his day. Scottie's prime was from 91-98,coinciding with the years the Bulls won titles, and in those seasons he was a 20/7/6/ guy.


Usually when talking about most players, we use their career numbers. We don't selectively choose their prime years, and try to say that just a small sample encompasses their whole career.

Scottie Pippen played for 17 years, and only 4 times did he reach 20 ppg.

[guy]

Its an accurate description of the Jordan/Pippen dynamic. I don't understand why people are so sensitive about it. Its saying he's the lesser of the 2, which is true, its not saying that he sucks.

[LamarOdom]

Usually when talking about most players, we use their career numbers. We don't selectively choose their prime years, and try to say that just a small sample encompasses their whole career.

Scottie Pippen played for 17 years, and only 4 times did he reach 20 ppg.

First three peat he averaged 19/7,5/6,5.
Second three peat he averaged 20/7,6/6.

[BoutPractice]

Pippen led teams to the playoffs as a first option, he wasn't a sidekick for all of his career so he's not the definition of a sidekick.

[step_back]

Pippen chose to stay with the Bulls because he valued winning more than anything else. If he had gone to any other team chances are he would have been their best player. Only a small hand full of teams had a better player than Pip.

His loyalty and devotion paid of. 6 rings and the hall of fame. :bowdown:

[Sarcastic]

First three peat he averaged 19/7,5/6,5.
Second three peat he averaged 20/7,6/6.

The other 11 years don't count?

[LamarOdom]

The other 11 years don't count?

Yes they do but these are most relevant when you're talking about a sidekick in championship years which I assume the op was asking about.

[DKLaker]

When someone refers to another player as a "good pippen", is that an insult or compliment?

compliment, he was great and MJ would be ringless without him :cheers:

[97 bulls]

Its an accurate description of the Jordan/Pippen dynamic. I don't understand why people are so sensitive about it. Its saying he's the lesser of the 2, which is true, its not saying that he sucks.
Because people use it as a form of degradation. As if he wasnt good enough to assume a bigger role. As if all he couldve been, was a second fiddle to anyone

[Sarcastic]

Yes they do but these are most relevant when you're talking about a sidekick in championship years which I assume the op was asking about.

They were competing for a title as far back as 1989, when they made the ECF. You're just cherry picking the absolute best years of his for some reason.

[guy]

Because people use it as a form of degradation. As if he wasnt good enough to assume a bigger role. As if all he couldve been, was a second fiddle to anyone

There's only been like 20-25 players in the NBA's 60+ year history that have won in a bigger role then Pippen did. Hardly anything to feel degraded about.

[Sarcastic]

For some reason with Pippen we can only bring up the two 3 peats, but the time in Houston and Portland is swept under the rug. Any time prior to the 3 peat is untouchable as well.

[Ne 1]

Pippen was a #1 option playing with one of the most dominant #1 options in NBA history. This made him a #2...he was VERY capable of being a #1 option for almost any team of the league AND was a very good #1 option when Jordan went to go play Baseball

This. It's why I would not describe him as just a "good 2nd option". Scottie was perhaps the best perimeter defender of all time, one of the best rebounding small forwards of all time, one of the best play making forwards of all time, a leader on the court and a winner, plus a long, athletic player who gave you over 20+ ppg.

[get these NETS]

When someone refers to another player as a "good pippen", is that an insult or compliment?


pippen's name being used to describe a "sidekick" is true but WRONG.....and i think real sports fan can see why.

Pippen was more a complementary player to MJ than a sidekick.

Sidekick is for second leading scorer on your team..second option.

Pippen's true value to the Bulls and MJ was in his versatility and defense.

Any other NBA player would have been option 2 to MJ by is 6th year..second leading scorer,etc....but bulls probably would never win a damn thing.


Pippen, when he finally became developed ...was a player that MJ could trust( for the first 45 minutes of the game)....he'd show up, he'd guard the other team's star player, he'd run offense...spot up for three....terrorize the passing lanes..

FULLY allowed Jordan to play his own role of ALPHA MALE....and pick his spots to takeover.

[Ne 1]

Scottie Pippen played for 17 years, and only 4 times did he reach 20 ppg.

Scottie was the de-facto PG for the Bulls. He was asked to facilitate first and score second.

What I don't think people realize is what separated Pippen from typical 20 ppg scorers from Pippen is that he made his teammates better. The things that separated him from typical 20 ppg scorers don't show up on the stat sheet: defense, leadership, defense, making his teammates better, defense, play making, defense.

People put way too much stock on an individuals scoring stats to determine their greatness, especially when such scoring stats (and stats in general) don't tell a complete picture of the player's contributions.

[Sarcastic]

Scottie was the de-facto PG for the Bulls. He was asked to facilitate first and score second.

What I don't think people realize is what separated Pippen from typical 20 ppg scorers from Pippen is that he made his teammates better. The things that separated him from typical 20 ppg scorers don't show up on the stat sheet: defense, leadership, defense, making his teammates better, defense, play making, defense.

People put way too much stock on an individuals scoring stats to determine their greatness, especially when such scoring stats (and stats in general) don't tell a complete picture of the player's contributions.


If Pippen spent his career on the Sacramento Kings, he wouldn't get anywhere near this type of attention.

[guy]

For some reason with Pippen we can only bring up the two 3 peats, but the time in Houston and Portland is swept under the rug. Any time prior to the 3 peat is untouchable as well.

This is true. From 90-98 he was an all-star/superstar level player. From 88-89 and 99-04 he really wasn't that close. Thats about half his career.

[Ne 1]

If Pippen spent his career on the Sacramento Kings, he wouldn't get anywhere near this type of attention.

And if your aunt had balls, she would be your uncle...what is your point exactly?

[Ne 1]

To illustrate Scottie's leadership and making his teammates better:

[QUOTE]Tremendous teammate, that

[97 bulls]

For some reason with Pippen we can only bring up the two 3 peats, but the time in Houston and Portland is swept under the rug. Any time prior to the 3 peat is untouchable as well.
Thats not true. People bring up 89, 90, 94, 95, and 00 as well. But lets be honest, nobody cares what happens in a players career as an old man or young kid. Only how the player faired in his prime.

[get these NETS]

This is true. From 90-98 he was an all-star/superstar level player. From 88-89 and 99-04 he really wasn't that close. Thats about half his career.


most guys in the nba can do ONE or two things extremely well

and when they can no longer do those things as effectively, they aren't as useful to teams

jack of all trade guys like pippen , with a smart coach, can contribute and play years after their athletic peaks are over......look at grant hill.....for example...or even arvydas sabonis....drunk, overweight,bad knees..STILL was able to play well and contribute to team

[guy]

most guys in the nba can do ONE or two things extremely well

and when they can no longer do those things as effectively, they aren't as useful to teams

jack of all trade guys like pippen , with a smart coach, can contribute and play years after their athletic peaks are over......look at grant hill.....for example...or even arvydas sabonis....drunk, overweight,bad knees..STILL was able to play well and contribute to team

Never said he wasn't a good player outside of those years.

[97 bulls]

And since youre so big on careeer accomplishments Sarcastic, do you know Scottie Pippen is first alltime in assists and stls for forwards?

[get these NETS]

To illustrate Scottie's leadership and making his teammates better:

quotes you have indicate that pippen was the good cop to MJ's bad cop.......or bad lieutenant

[Sarcastic]

I guess my biggest peeve about Pippen is that he is always referred to as a 20 point scorer, when in fact for most of his career he wasn't. For his peak he certainly was, but his career shot downward really quick after the Jordan years.

[Sarcastic]

And since youre so big on careeer accomplishments Sarcastic, do you know Scottie Pippen is first alltime in assists and stls for forwards?

I've never doubted him as a passer or defender. I've only questioned his ability to score.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Thats not true. People bring up 89, 90, 94, 95, and 00 as well. But lets be honest, nobody cares what happens in a players career as an old man or young kid. Only how the player faired in his prime.

Arguably the best seasons of his career. People are so enamored with Jordan they don't think before posting. :oldlol:

[get these NETS]

Never said he wasn't a good player outside of those years.
I think we think along the same lines

I say pippen was an EXCELLENT complementary player.

the 50 greatest and other stuff.....eh.....a bit much...


he did so many things well 6'8" super athletic, long armed high iq all-league defender....who could play and defend 1,2,3 and he did these things best under the pressure of trying to win rings

[97 bulls]

This is true. From 90-98 he was an all-star/superstar level player. From 88-89 and 99-04 he really wasn't that close. Thats about half his career.
Ok so what do you want people to say? That he shouldve won or better led a team to a championship as an old man? Or a rookie? The standards some people put on Scottie Pippen is incredible

[guy]

I think we think along the same lines

I say pippen was an EXCELLENT complementary player.

the 50 greatest and other stuff.....eh.....a bit much...


he did so many things well 6'8" super athletic, long armed high iq all-league defender....who could play and defend 1,2,3 and he did these things best under the pressure of trying to win rings

A complementary player to a centerpiece can be viewed as a sidekick especially if he's the no. 1 complementary piece. And if calling him a sidekick is bad, I don't see how saying he was a complementary player isn't bad either then.

[guy]

Ok so what do you want people to say? That he shouldve won or better led a team to a championship as an old man? Or a rookie? The standards some people put on Scottie Pippen is incredible

I think we are talking about something different. We were just talking about how people ignore half his career and act like he was the Pippen of the championship years for the vast majority of his career. Not criticizing him for anything specific.

[get these NETS]

pippen's put up or shut up moment came when he missed that 3 in the blazers collapse against lakers.


since he was the team leader....lot of people hold him accountable..
blazers didn't have turnovers, if a i recall, just went cold from the field..including a smoking hot in non clutch time steve smith..he was killing..until pressure was on


he wins that series and goes on to win ring on his own.....he gets the monkey and monkeys off his back

[TheMan]

I prefer to call Pippen MJ's partner in crime:rockon:
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Sports/images-3/jordan-pippen.jpg

[97 bulls]

I think we think along the same lines

I say pippen was an EXCELLENT complementary player.

the 50 greatest and other stuff.....eh.....a bit much...


he did so many things well 6'8" super athletic, long armed high iq all-league defender....who could play and defend 1,2,3 and he did these things best under the pressure of trying to win rings
How can you question a player thats ranked as the best wing defender ever, arguably the most versitle player ever, a six time champion, a two time olympian, first in steals and assists by a forward , the best small forward in the 90s, to mention a few of his accomplishmnets being top 50? How can he not be top 50? Can you really name 20 players more accomplished than Pippen?

[Ne 1]

his career shot downward really quick after the Jordan years.

Because his prime ended overnight after Malone killed his back in the 98' finals taking a million charges. Pippen himself has said he lost most of his athletic ability then and combine that with aging (he was 34 when he arrived in Portland).

Anyway the bottom line is that if Pippen didn't perform at a very high level his teams would have lost. Near triple double averages in the Finals, wrecked havoc on the Jazz offense etc.

No idea why he's punished for being the #2 scoring option on a team with Michael Jordan. Wouldn't all those other guys also be the #2 scoring option if they played with Jordan? Jordan led the league in FGA's a record 10 times!

[Sarcastic]

pippen's put up or shut up moment came when he missed that 3 in the blazers collapse against lakers.


since he was the team leader....lot of people hold him accountable..
blazers didn't have turnovers, if a i recall, just went cold from the field..including a smoking hot in non clutch time steve smith..he was killing..until pressure was on


he wins that series and goes on to win ring on his own.....he gets the monkey and monkeys off his back


Let's not forget 1994, when he pouted about not getting the last shot, as Kukoc then proceeded to sink an incredible buzzer beater. Or in 1995, when the team was falling apart, and Jordan had to come back to save them.

[get these NETS]

A complementary player to a centerpiece can be viewed as a sidekick especially if he's the no. 1 complementary piece. And if calling him a sidekick is bad, I don't see how saying he was a complementary player isn't bad either then.

sidekick to me indicates that people only harp on him being second leading scorer

to say he was 1(b) to Jordan doesn't begin to talk about what he brought to the table to allow team to win

EVERY other player on first 3 peat was replaced during second 3peat EXCEPT Pippen...if I recall

[Indian guy]

I would say so, yes. Great as he was, Pippen was not 1st option material. He had strong all around skills, but was merely a good offensive player. Unless your team is built in the mold of '04 Pistons or the '08 Celtics, you are not winning a championship with Pippen as your best player. He was not what you would call a go-to-guy. Someone who could carry his team for long stretches, especially in the clutch. He was always meant to compliment a great scorer. That is why Pippen = Sidekick.

[97 bulls]

I think we are talking about something different. We were just talking about how people ignore half his career and act like he was the Pippen of the championship years for the vast majority of his career. Not criticizing him for anything specific.
That same rule applies to everybody. Nobody discredit Michael Jordans greatness for being a shell of his former self as an old man with the Wiazrds. And not leading them to a championship. And anyone who does is an idiot

[Dragonyeuw]

Usually when talking about most players, we use their career numbers. We don't selectively choose their prime years, and try to say that just a small sample encompasses their whole career.

Scottie Pippen played for 17 years, and only 4 times did he reach 20 ppg.

What you use is up to you. I used his prime numbers as demonstration of what he was capable of at his best. Who gives a crap if he averaged 7 points in his first and last seasons? They aren't reflective of his prime production.

[get these NETS]

Let's not forget 1994, when he pouted about not getting the last shot, as Kukoc then proceeded to sink an incredible buzzer beater. Or in 1995, when the team was falling apart, and Jordan had to come back to save them.
reporters care more about that play when he sat out...phil jackson's reporter friends burying pip


to me it was a poorly designed play...to me you keep scottie on the floor to draw the best defender and the attention of the defense..

in 95...team wasn't falling apart from what I remember.....they were 3-5 seed in east i i recall correctly

[97 bulls]

Let's not forget 1994, when he pouted about not getting the last shot, as Kukoc then proceeded to sink an incredible buzzer beater. >>>>>>>>Or in 1995, when the team was falling apart, and Jordan had to come back to save them.<<<<<<<<z
Lol this is a lie and you know it.

[Sarcastic]

That same rule applies to everybody. Nobody discredit Michael Jordans greatness for being a shell of his former self as an old man with the Wiazrds. And not leading them to a championship. And anyone who does is an idiot

Shaq scored 29 ppg 4 times in his career, the same number of times that Pippen scored 20. So I guess if you are ready to call Shaq a 29 ppg scorer, then it is fair to call Pippen a 20 ppg scorer.

[Dragonyeuw]

the time in Houston and Portland is swept under the rug.

No-one's sweeping it under the rug. Do you measure Michael Jordan by what he did as a Wizard, or what he did as a Bull? In Pippen's PRIME, he was a 20/7/6 guy.

[Sarcastic]

reporters care more about that play when he sat out...phil jackson's reporter friends burying pip


to me it was a poorly designed play...to me you keep scottie on the floor to draw the best defender and the attention of the defense..

in 95...team wasn't falling apart from what I remember.....they were 3-5 seed in east i i recall correctly


IIC Pippen took himself out of the game, because he was pouting. He didn't want to be a decoy.

[Cali Syndicate]

pippen's put up or shut up moment came when he missed that 3 in the blazers collapse against lakers.


since he was the team leader....lot of people hold him accountable..
blazers didn't have turnovers, if a i recall, just went cold from the field..including a smoking hot in non clutch time steve smith..he was killing..until pressure was on


he wins that series and goes on to win ring on his own.....he gets the monkey and monkeys off his back

That 3, a contested one at that, was basically the only efffort he gave on offense during that comeback. You would think all those years with MJ, Pippen would have stepped up a little more justt a 3 point attempt.

But Sheed was the go to guy. He just couldn't slow the bleeding.

[Sarcastic]

Lol this is a lie and you know it.


Well they finished the year 11-1 down the stretch, so they were 36-34 prior to the close. For a team that had done so well the past few years, I would call that falling apart.

[guy]

That same rule applies to everybody. Nobody discredit Michael Jordans greatness for being a shell of his former self as an old man with the Wiazrds. And not leading them to a championship. And anyone who does is an idiot

That was 2 years out of like 15. That was only 10-20% of his career and he was an all-star level player for the majority of that anyway. Its not the same thing at all. Pippen wasn't a great player (good, not great or elite) for about half of his career. I'm not talking about just leading teams to a title here.

[97 bulls]

reporters care more about that play when he sat out...phil jackson's reporter friends burying pip


to me it was a poorly designed play...to me you keep scottie on the floor to draw the best defender and the attention of the defense..

in 95...team wasn't falling apart from what I remember.....they were 3-5 seed in east i i recall correctly
I think Jackson wanted Pippen on the floor as a decoy. But Pippen wanted the opportunity to hit the game winning shot. If you remember, he spearheaded that comeback and had a huge game. He deserved the opportunity. Its funny how people say pippen shyed away from the clutch shots and big moment. But then constantly bring up this play

[Dragonyeuw]

Shaq scored 29 ppg 4 times in his career, the same number of times that Pippen scored 20. So I guess if you are ready to call Shaq a 29 ppg scorer, then it is fair to call Pippen a 20 ppg scorer.

And Shaq averaged 9 in his final year. That's no more reflective of prime Shaq than Scottie scoring 7 points as a rookie is reflective of his best.

[Sarcastic]

And Shaq averaged 9 in his final year. That's no more reflective of prime Shaq than Scottie scoring 7 points as a rookie is reflective of his best.

I'm not just talking about 1 or 2 years with Pippen. He has about 8 or 9 years in which you would not call him an elite player.

[97 bulls]

That was 2 years out of like 15. That was only 10-20% of his career and he was an all-star level player for the majority of that anyway. Its not the same thing at all. Pippen wasn't a great player (good, not great or elite) for about half of his career. I'm not talking about just leading teams to a title here.
Their situations were different. Dont discount how much it helped Jordans body being able to take a couple years off. And still, Jordan wasnt a great player with the Wizards. He was still very good. And he was voted into the allstar game his first season back. The second season was more a matter of politics. There were more deserving players. Im sure if Jordans name was added to the allstar balloting this year he would be a top vote getter without even setting foot on the court.

[Dragonyeuw]

I'm not just talking about 1 or 2 years with Pippen. He has about 8 or 9 years in which you would not call him an elite player.

And 8 years in which you would. His first three years he wasn't elite, his last 4 or so he wasn't elite. The last year of Pippen's prime was the final Bulls title in 1998. He was never the same after the back surgery he had that summer. Still, 8 years of prime play is more than enough to establish that he was a great player. To argue the inverse of what you said, it's not like he had only 1 or 2 years where he was great.

[AK47DR91]

The only time "sidekick" and "second fiddle" is attach to his name is when fans start talking about LeBron(for going to Miami) or Kobe(for playing under Shaq). It's a way to devalue LeBron's legacy in Miami and Kobe's 3 rings with Shaq.

So I guess, it's yes and no. Yes, when people are trying to attack LeBron and Kobe. But they're not attacking Pippen. So in that case, no. They're not really insulting Pippen as a player. It just happened that he was great at his role playing behind Jordan, who is considered the greatest player of all-time by many.

[guy]

Their situations were different. Dont discount how much it helped Jordans body being able to take a couple years off. And still, Jordan wasnt a great player with the Wizards. He was still very good. And he was voted into the allstar game his first season back. The second season was more a matter of politics. There were more deserving players. Im sure if Jordans name was added to the allstar balloting this year he would be a top vote getter without even setting foot on the court.

What? Who cares if the situations were different? If a player is that good, you don't need situations and stats to dictate that. Jordan was a borderline top ten player in the league in the first half of the 02 season, then fell off with his injuries. In 03 he got some of his form back and played very well.

I'm not discounting anything. I'm not blaming Pippen at all for getting injured either. Injuries did derail his career though. It is what it is. We can't make believe what Pippen's career would've been if he did get injured, just like we can't make believe what Jordan's career would've been if he never retired multiple times.

Even if you want to say Jordan wasn't a great player at all during that time. Fine. Thats still 2 seasons out of like 15 where he wasn't great. For Pippen, its about 8 out of 17, nearly half of his career. And thats my point. Most great players played at an elite level for longer. I still think Pippen was great, I'm just pointing out how this is ignored.

[Teanett]

pippen was the sidekick of jordan.
cuttino mobley was the sidekick of steve francis.

big difference.

[Xiao Yao You]

yes

[97 bulls]

What? Who cares if the situations were different? If a player is that good, you don't need situations and stats to dictate that. Jordan was a borderline top ten player in the league in the first half of the 02 season, then fell off with his injuries. In 03 he got some of his form back and played very well.

I'm not discounting anything. I'm not blaming Pippen at all for getting injured either. Injuries did derail his career though. It is what it is. We can't make believe what Pippen's career would've been if he did get injured, just like we can't make believe what Jordan's career would've been if he never retired multiple times.

Even if you want to say Jordan wasn't a great player at all during that time. Fine. Thats still 2 seasons out of like 15 where he wasn't great. For Pippen, its about 8 out of 17, nearly half of his career. And thats my point. Most great players played at an elite level for longer. I still think Pippen was great, I'm just pointing out how this is ignored.
And the point Im making is whether or not it was two years, or five years, no one brings up Jordans stint with the wizrds as a means to undermine him. Because he was old. I mean why is this even a conversation. How many playrs are even good enough to have an eighteen year career? Pippen played at an elite to very good level for 8-11 years. Thats right on par with any other alltime great. I defy you to show me a player that played at a high level for 18 years. Even more a perimeter player.

[MiseryCityTexas]

pippen's lone season as "the man" is greatly fabricated. so what if pippen put up solid numbers? pippen still couldn't beat the knicks in the play-offs without Jordan

[Dragonyeuw]

What? Who cares if the situations were different? If a player is that good, you don't need situations and stats to dictate that. Jordan was a borderline top ten player in the league in the first half of the 02 season, then fell off with his injuries. In 03 he got some of his form back and played very well.

I'm not discounting anything. I'm not blaming Pippen at all for getting injured either. Injuries did derail his career though. It is what it is. We can't make believe what Pippen's career would've been if he did get injured, just like we can't make believe what Jordan's career would've been if he never retired multiple times.

Even if you want to say Jordan wasn't a great player at all during that time. Fine. Thats still 2 seasons out of like 15 where he wasn't great. For Pippen, its about 8 out of 17, nearly half of his career. And thats my point. Most great players played at an elite level for longer. I still think Pippen was great, I'm just pointing out how this is ignored.

It took Pippen 4 years to develop into an allstar talent, not unheard of. His back injury cut his prime short, but by that point he was 33 anyway. He was still good but not great in Houston,and by the time he got to Portland at 34 he was past prime. Plus his role in Portland was more as part of an emsemble cast, that team was deep as hell.

[get these NETS]

I think Jackson wanted Pippen on the floor as a decoy. But Pippen wanted the opportunity to hit the game winning shot. If you remember, he spearheaded that comeback and had a huge game. He deserved the opportunity. Its funny how people say pippen shyed away from the clutch shots and big moment. But then constantly bring up this play
i thought he wanted pip to inbound the ball and that's what upset pip

[get these NETS]

How can you question a player thats ranked as the best wing defender ever, arguably the most versitle player ever, a six time champion, a two time olympian, first in steals and assists by a forward , the best small forward in the 90s, to mention a few of his accomplishmnets being top 50? How can he not be top 50? Can you really name 20 players more accomplished than Pippen?


dominique wilkins got snubbed

..nique was in top 10 scoring when he hung up his sneakers...lot of other one dimensional scorers in the top 50..including iceman...

[97 bulls]

dominique wilkins got snubbed

..nique was in top 10 scoring when he hung up his sneakers...lot of other one dimensional scorers in the top 50..including iceman...
So youd put Wilkins in the top 50 over Pippen?

[97 bulls]

i thought he wanted pip to inbound the ball and that's what upset pip
He did. But Pippen wanted to take the last shot. The play was drawn up for Kukoc.

[Kblaze8855]

Usually when talking about most players, we use their career numbers. We don't selectively choose their prime years, and try to say that just a small sample encompasses their whole career.


No we dont. And there is no reason to. When a guy mentions Alex english he doesnt mean the guy putting up 9ppg on the Pacers. He means Nuggets Alex english. And when you mention Pippen you dont mean second time on the Bulls 2004 Pippen. You mean Scottie Pippen....the player he was in the 90s. Very little else matters.

Nobody anywhere is gonna factor in the Boston era for Gary Payton or what Mitch Richmond did on the Wizards or Lakers.

You are who you were to build your reputation.

I'll call scottie a 16ppg player when Icall Shaq a 23 and change player. Just because its shaqs career average it doesnt mean the player we know as Shaq was putting up those numbers. He didnt score that low from 93-03 but im gonna act like Shaq is a 23ppg player because the cavs, Celtics, and Suns years bring him down so much?

Naaaaaaaaaaah homie.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No we dont. And there is no reason to. When a guy mentions Alex english he doesnt mean the guy putting up 9ppg on the Pacers. He means Nuggets Alex english. And when you mention Pippen you dont mean second time on the Bulls 2004 Pippen. You mean Scottie Pippen....the player he was in the 90s. Very little else matters.

Nobody anywhere is gonna factor in the Boston era for Gary Payton or what Mitch Richmond did on the Wizards or Lakers.

You are who you were to build your reputation.

I'll call scottie a 16ppg player when Icall Shaq a 23 and change player. Just because its shaqs career average it doesnt mean the player we know as Shaq was putting up those numbers. He didnt score that low from 93-03 but im gonna act like Shaq is a 23ppg player because the cavs, Celtics, and Suns years bring him down so much?

Naaaaaaaaaaah homie.

Well said my dude.

[97 bulls]

pippen's lone season as "the man" is greatly fabricated. so what if pippen put up solid numbers? pippen still couldn't beat the knicks in the play-offs without Jordan
How is this an indictment on Pippen? The Bulls replaced Jorrdan with Pete Myers. If you feel the Bulls shouldve beat the knicks in 94 without Jordan, then you dont think that much of Jordan. The Bulls were barely beating the Knicks with Jordan and Pippen. And it wasnt as if the Bulls were sewpt by the Knicks. They lost in seven.


Talk about pulling something out of your ass geeze.

[get these NETS]

So youd put Wilkins in the top 50 over Pippen?

absolutely

again...there are other high scorers in the top 50...and nique retired in the top 10 points

as skilled as pippen was...and as versatile....he never had pressure of holding down a franchise... like Nique did for his Hawks career..he did it one year really....



I'm not a big fan of Parrish being in there either, and surely don'tthink that so many 70s era Knicks are all legit top 50

think they have entire starting 5 in top 50, which is bull

[get these NETS]

He did. But Pippen wanted to take the last shot. The play was drawn up for Kukoc.

ok..thanks for clarifying

it worked out, but having scottie inbound the ball...not really the best way to use him

he's probably your best passer and can see and throw over the guy covering, but ...playing into the defense's hands by not having him on the court.

========================================


while we're at it..is there ANY truth to the rumor that the iconic play that Jordan made over Ehlo to bury Cleveland

that play out of the huddle was to go to Cartwright..and MJ broke huddle and told the inbounder to "GIVe ME the EFFin BALL?"


heard that repeated for years

[AlphaWolf24]

- The whole reason for this thread is because JordanJockers always tried to prop up MJ by degrading Pippen.

Before MJ's era the whole "2nd Fiddle , won without a Big Man, Sidekick" viewpoint was non existent.

- When Magic and Bird were dominating the NBA no one said Mchale is just a SideKick, 2nd Fiddle role player who is only good because he has Bird...."Bird Made Mchale tough because he yelled at him in practice"

- "Magic made Worthy"..."Magic is Kareem's sidekick"...."Bird is Maxwell's Robin....because Maxwell won FMVP"

- this whole idiotic idea of sideKicks and #1 option's vs team/winning is from MJ stans degrading MJ's teamates to prop him over past/current generation stars ...period point blank.

- (MJ wins ) Jordan stans start to spin it by saying "MJ had no help"..."MJ had no Center"....."MJ never had a Mchale or Worthy...he just had Pippen , who he showed how to play the game of basketball"....spewing Filth and trying to make it seem like MJ won all by himself...rather then with great teamates like Magic , Bird , Kobe , Hakeem etc...did

- Jordan was one of if not the greatest Clutch players / scorers ever....no doubt. But Pippen was probably the 2nd best player in the NBA during his prime...even without MJ , Pippen was a MVP caliber superstar who happened to play the greatest defense I ever seen.....teamed wth the greatest coach in NBA history.....the Bull's won 6 titles with amazing team/clutch play by MJ and Scottie.....2 dominating players who should be viewed as a Great combination...ala Magic and Kareem , Bird and Mchale etc.


the downplaying of Pippen's Greatness is sickning....Pippen made Pippen.....Mj andPippen made art.