Replace Kemp with Prime Garnett on 96 Sonics

[unbreakable]

Bring a prime, RINGLESS, KG to the Sonics.... he'd be so hungry with GP20 .. .i imagine a ferocious duo, eating the hearts of their opposition
every night.
KG's is one of the greatest ,most versatile defenders in the history of the game. Top 4 defensive forward (duncan, pippen, lebron round out) all time, great passer and playmaker which would be huge on a good squad like the 96 Sonics.



http://crispusattucks.co/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/KG.jpeg

[CAstill]

Bring a prime, RINGLESS, KG to the Sonics.... he'd be so hungry with GP20 .. .i imagine a ferocious duo, eating the hearts of their opposition
every night.
KG's is one of the greatest ,most versatile defenders in the history of the game. Top 4 defensive forward (duncan, pippen, lebron round out) all time, great passer and playmaker which would be huge on a good squad like the 96 Sonics.



http://crispusattucks.co/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/KG.jpeg
:facepalm
They would be worse. Kemp was the reason they made it
through the playoffs. Kemps 95-96 season is the most
underrated finals run in ISH history. Garnett would of
not got past the Rockets or the Jazz. He for sure would
of got took by those bulls. Same results, different folks.

[Cali Syndicate]

So are you saying the Sonics would have beat the Bulls with KG instead of Kemp?

A prime KG does help but unless he was going to put up some ridiculous numbers, the Sonics still wouldn't take the Bulls. Reason being, Kemp had a really solid series. KG would probably have done a better job keeping Rodman off the offensive glass and reducing the Bulls 2nd chance opportunities would have been huge. But again we are talking about Rodman here.

Yes KG in his prime was as versatile a defender as they come but Kemp anchored that defense very well. KG would improve that team IMO, but enough to beat the Bulls? Tough to say.

Anyone else?

[oh the horror]

:facepalm
They would be worse. Kemp was the reason they made it
through the playoffs. Kemps 95-96 season is the most
underrated finals run in ISH history. Garnett would of
not got past the Rockets or the Jazz. He for sure would
of got took by those bulls. Same results, different folks.


A prime KG makes them worse? Really?

[Cali Syndicate]

:facepalm
They would be worse. Kemp was the reason they made it
through the playoffs. Kemps 95-96 season is the most
underrated finals run in ISH history. Garnett would of
not got past the Rockets or the Jazz. He for sure would
of got took by those bulls. Same results, different folks.

You delete your account right now!

[RIP CITY]

Top 4 defensive forward (duncan, pippen, lebron round out) all time, great passer and playmaker which would be huge on a good squad like the 96 Sonics.


SMH, holy shit. NO. I don't know where people get shit like this from, but if LeBron isn't quickly becoming the most overrated defensive player of All-Time than I don't know what's going on. Look, I'll give LeBron credit, he's become a very good defender over the last 2-3 years but he is nowhere near the All-Time greats, come on with that. Best player in the world today, All-Time great offensive player and player overall, but he's not one of the greatest defensive players ever, he's just not.

As for the topic, I think KG makes the Sonics better defensively but not enough to beat the Bulls, no way.

[plowking]

SMH, holy shit. NO. I don't know where people get shit like this from, but if LeBron isn't quickly becoming the most overrated defensive player of All-Time than I don't know what's going on. Look, I'll give LeBron credit, he's become a very good defender over the last 2-3 years but he is nowhere near the All-Time greats, come on with that. Best player in the world today, All-Time great offensive player and player overall, but he's not one of the greatest defensive players ever, he's just not.

As for the topic, I think KG makes the Sonics better defensively but not enough to beat the Bulls, no way.

Yes he is. He defends the post, and the outside as well as anyone in the league as a whole. The only thing he's not great at is help defense.

[unbreakable]

KG was the anchor on one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history, 2008 Celtics..

Imagine pairing him next to a prime GP20 .:lebronamazed:




Sonics 1996 NBA Champs:bowdown:

[RIP CITY]

Yes he is. He defends the post, and the outside as well as anyone in the league as a whole. The only thing he's not great at is help defense.

Calling him one of best defensive players in the NBA today is fine with me but calling him one of the greatest defensive players of All-Time is just not accurate in my opinion. He's not one of the best defenders in the post, he is probably the best non-big man at defending in the post (debatable, but I wouldn't complain about it) but there are alot of big man who do it better. He's not the best perimeter defender in the NBA, he's just recently (last 2-3 years) become one of the best perimeter defenders in the League. That does not equal "All-Time Great" defender in NBA history. He's a very good to great defensive player, he's not one of the Top 4 All-Time Forward defenders like the OP said and he's not one of the best defensive players of All-Time. There is a pretty big difference between great and All-Time great.

[Harison]

Kemp had a good series vs Bulls, we could expect similar scoring with KG, plus better rebounding and defense (most likely the best in NBA, which would limit Bulls more than they did with Kemp). Sonics would gain advantage with having a better playmaker in KG, considering team already had more versatile offense than Bulls.

Series would become much more even, toss up who wins. Still I wouldnt bet against Jordan.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Kemp had a good series vs Bulls, we could expect similar scoring with KG, plus better rebounding and defense (most likely the best in NBA, which would limit Bulls more than they did with Kemp). Sonics would gain advantage with having a better playmaker in KG, considering team already had more versatile offense than Bulls.

Series would become much more even, toss up who wins. Still I wouldnt bet against Jordan.
This!

[get these NETS]

kemp famously pushed/punched back kevin willis that playoff run and there was mini controversy about him not getting tossed or missing games

the real big dog...antoine carr/willis...malone..rodman

there were legit big strong tough guys playing 4 back then...toughman fake guy antics by kg would get him smacked silly

and he just didn't have the strength to play 4 in that era...he'd get pushed around

rodman had the strength and foot speed to bother kg...whereas kemp wiped his ass with rodman...did a drop step reverse dunk on rodman out of the lowpost and tea bagged him


pippen could have bothered kg if he played outside

[MiseryCityTexas]

them ****** still would not have won shit

[Mr Exlax]

kemp famously pushed/punched back kevin willis that playoff run and there was mini controversy about him not getting tossed or missing games

the real big dog...antoine carr/willis...malone..rodman

there were legit big strong tough guys playing 4 back then...toughman fake guy antics by kg would get him smacked silly

and he just didn't have the strength to play 4 in that era...he'd get pushed around

rodman had the strength and foot speed to bother kg...whereas kemp wiped his ass with rodman...did a drop step reverse dunk on rodman out of the lowpost and tea bagged him


pippen could have bothered kg if he played outside

This. Love KG but seriously he couldn't cut it at the 4 back then. Just not strong enough.

[Calabis]

Hold up, let me get this shit straight.....someone mentioned Celtics Garnett that anchored that D

Kemp in 96 put up 19 ppg/11 reb/56%
in playoffs 20 ppg/10 reb/57%, with 40 blocked shots

is somehow worse than

Garnett in 08 put up 20 ppg/10 reb/49%, with 41 block shots

:confusedshrug:

[Papaya Petee]

Hold up, let me get this shit straight.....someone mentioned Celtics Garnett that anchored that D

Kemp in 96 put up 19 ppg/11 reb/56%
in playoffs 20 ppg/10 reb/57%, with 40 blocked shots

is somehow worse than

Garnett in 08 put up 20 ppg/10 reb/49%, with 41 block shots

:confusedshrug:
He said PRIME KG, not 2008 KG, learn to read.

[miles berg]

I'm not even sure I can finish my breakfast after reading someone say LeBron fn James is in the same league of defensive forwards as Duncan, KG, Pippen, etc...

Absolute insult to a Sidney Moncrief, Dennis Rodman, Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, etc...all far superior defenders.

[schism206]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQbUastCD5E I love KG's game and intensity, but Shawn Kemp was a beast and I can't say that it would change things a whole lot for that particular Sonic's team. I believe there's a few clips in there of Kemp abusing Barkley, Mutombo, and a few other high caliber players. I don't remember a lot of him, aside from that season they went to the finals, but the dude was obviously a freight train coming through, and could handle the ball. I do think KG is probably the smarter player, and better passer.

Like a few have said, the good PF's back then were bruisers, I'm not sure if KG's style of play would have fared as well as Kemp's. But to be fair, prime KG and Payton would have been a pretty amazing duo.:bowdown:

[Wally450]

A prime KG makes them worse? Really?

Haha, don't hear that often, even if its not true.... :facepalm

[Rasheed1]

Wouldnt have made a difference... Shawn Kemp was a monster especially against Chicago in that series..... He did his part..

Also the Bulls were up 3-1 (i think) so fast that it was anticlimactic...

Kg is a hall of famer, but he wouldnt have improved that team, because Kemp was on an equal playing level at that point in his career..

I remember him getting fat and going to cleveland or something like that :oldlol:


that was a totally different rain man from the guy who played in seattle

[Linspired]

one of the 3 greatest team in the history of NBA will not lose to sonics + KG.
MJ & co. will just elevate their game. it will be a hard fought battle, but betting against MJ is retarded.

[Mach_3]

Wouldnt have made a difference... Shawn Kemp was a monster especially against Chicago in that series..... He did his part..

Also the Bulls were up 3-1 (i think) so fast that it was anticlimactic...

Kg is a hall of famer, but he wouldnt have improved that team, because Kemp was on an equal playing level at that point in his career..

I remember him getting fat and going to cleveland or something like that :oldlol:


that was a totally different rain man from the guy who played in seattle

Yea...at no point in his career was Shawn Kemp better than prime Garnett. Kemp was a god damn beast though.

They'd definitely be a better squad defensively but i still don't think there's enough fire power there to beat the Bulls. Maybeee they could take em in 7 :confusedshrug:

[Smoke117]

Wouldnt have made a difference... Shawn Kemp was a monster especially against Chicago in that series..... He did his part..

Also the Bulls were up 3-1 (i think) so fast that it was anticlimactic...

Kg is a hall of famer, but he wouldnt have improved that team, because Kemp was on an equal playing level at that point in his career..

I remember him getting fat and going to cleveland or something like that :oldlol:


that was a totally different rain man from the guy who played in seattle

The Bulls were up 3-0 and then lost the next 2. The only reason the Sonics weren't swept or at least lost in 5 is that Jordan was missing a lot of shots he normally makes and Scottie was dealing with a variety of injuries, the key one being a bad ankle sprain that forced him into being a jump shooter. The Sonics never had a chance. If you put a 2003-04 Garnett on the Sonics they absolutely get better obviously, but if we are going to play the if game (if ifs and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas) than lets say Scottie Pippen is fully healthy. They still have no chance then. It wasn't like Scottie played bad against the Sonics in general. In a january crushing win of 113-87 when he was still healthy he dropped 29 points on them on 9/15fg 5/9 3pt shooting. Jordan 35 pts on 14/25. So much for the DPOY Gary Payton. So if the Sonics get Garnett in his prime, then the Bulls get a fully healthy Pippen.

[L.Kizzle]

Would not beat Utah.

[Calabis]

He said PRIME KG, not 2008 KG, learn to read.

Or maybe you should, I wasn't talking to the OP, the guy who mentioned Celtics Garnett

KG was the anchor on one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history, 2008 Celtics

[AAckley1]

This. Love KG but seriously he couldn't cut it at the 4 back then. Just not strong enough.

You do realize that upper body strength has very little to do with basketball strength right?

I suppose Duncan would have got bodied by all of the 4s back then too huh?

[Smoke117]

Wouldnt have made a difference... Shawn Kemp was a monster especially against Chicago in that series..... He did his part..

Also the Bulls were up 3-1 (i think) so fast that it was anticlimactic...

Kg is a hall of famer, but he wouldnt have improved that team, because Kemp was on an equal playing level at that point in his career..

I remember him getting fat and going to cleveland or something like that :oldlol:


that was a totally different rain man from the guy who played in seattle


:oldlol: Kemp was never equal to a PRIME GARNETT. Don't be a clown or maybe learn a little bit about the players you are speaking about and have watched them play?

[CelticBaller]

Or maybe you should, I wasn't talking to the OP, the guy who mentioned Celtics Garnett

KG was the anchor on one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history, 2008 Celtics
Prime KG would've propelled that Celtics team to THE BEST defensive team of all time

[Odinn]

Prime KG would've propelled that Celtics team to THE BEST defensive team of all time
A team lost 10 games in the playoffs to get that title?
A team allowed 100+ points 7 times in the playoffs?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Great joke.

[Odinn]

I'm not so sure about KG producing 23.3 ppg against that Bulls on .551fg (.633ts)...

[CAstill]

You delete your account right now!
:rolleyes:
You're a troll and a square.

Prime Kemp>Prime KG
the specific season in question is one that KG has never reached
give a damn about a popularity vote mvp
Kemp would of ran circles around KG like he did in 97

[CAstill]

:oldlol: Kemp was never equal to a PRIME GARNETT. Don't be a clown or maybe learn a little bit about the players you are speaking about and have watched them play?

Yeah i watched both of them. Like both of them.
Prime Kemp>Prime KG
:roll: @ KG trying to gaurd Kemp.
That great D would of got shredded

[jbryan1984]

Shawn Kemp was great but he didn't come close to KG in his prime. IDK if they would of won, but Sonics would of had a better chance.

[Blackisbig]

Rodman would have got in his head. Would have likely been an embarrassing finals moment for KG.

[Lebron23]

Shawn Kemp was the best individual player in the 1996 NBA Finals.

[RIP CITY]

Shawn Kemp was the best individual player in the 1996 NBA Finals.

LOL.

[RoseCity07]

Wasn't Nate McMillan injured for a game or two during that series? Who knows what happens if he was healthy.

[Cali Syndicate]

:rolleyes:
You're a troll and a square.

Prime Kemp>Prime KG
the specific season in question is one that KG has never reached
give a damn about a popularity vote mvp
Kemp would of ran circles around KG like he did in 97

How am I a troll? I keep an even keeled approach to all my posts on this site.

But I will share a characteristic of a troll with you. A troll would say something like "Kobe would shit on MJ just like when he dropped 55 on him," which, little boy, is no different than the bold in your statement above. A prime Kemp > a 2nd year Garnett? That would be a yes Mr. Obvious. However, prime vs prime would go to KG. But look back to my original post where I stated I don't even think a prime KG would have made a difference in the outcome unless KG was to put up some ridiculous production.

And square? I've been called a lot of things in my life you sir have gone too far :rolleyes:

[unbreakable]

Prime KG would wreck Rodman, Kemp, etc... he was a monster on BOTH ends of the court and a huge playmaker as well.

KG helping out on Jordan and Pippen's penetration would be INCREDIBLE to the Sonics advantage

KG finals MVP

[Soundwave]

Honestly KG is easier match up for Rodman.

Kemp was a freaking beast in the paint, even made life tough for Rodman who's one of the best defensive forwards to ever lace them up.

I don't think KG would make one lick of difference. He was just too skinny and that might work on soft-ass Pau Gasol, but he'd get pushed off the block easily by Rodman who was as strong as an ox.

The Bulls went through a young Shaq and Ewing during that run, lol if Kevin Garnett's stick figure build would phase Jordan and Pippen one bit.

Modern day big men are p*ssies. A circa '96 Shaq probably took thicker sh*ts than KG, the only big in the NBA today he wouldn't dunk on repeatedly would be Dwight.

You guys underrate Shawn Kemp too. In today's NBA he'd eat most front courts alive.

[JohnnySic]

Amazing how underrated KG has become..............such short memeories.

[Rasheed1]

:oldlol: Kemp was never equal to a PRIME GARNETT. Don't be a clown or maybe learn a little bit about the players you are speaking about and have watched them play?


Kemp was on roughly the same level as Garnett when he played in the 96 finals.. I watched him as a player... KG being on the Sonics wouldnt have made a difference... PERIOD


Show some proof of it being other wise or STFU and get outta my face

[Charlie Sheen]

Kemp was on roughly the same level as Garnett when he played in the 96 finals.. I watched him as a player... KG being on the Sonics wouldnt have made a difference... PERIOD


Show some proof of it being other wise or STFU and get outta my face

Yup. Kemp at his absolute best wasnt gonna be a game changing drop off from kg. Biggest difference is KG was so good for so much longer than kemp...and that doesnt matter here

[SilkkTheShocker]

KG was the anchor on one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history, 2008 Celtics..

Imagine pairing him next to a prime GP20 .:lebronamazed:




Sonics 1996 NBA Champs:bowdown:


The Sonics played way better teams than the 08 Celtics. Here is Boston's road to the finals that season:

Atlanta- got taken to 7 games by a young sub .500 Hawks team
Cleveland- Got taken to 7 games by a team with Delonte West as the 2nd option
Detroit- Good team but way past prime
LA- Played Lakers without Bynum and Ariza

:applause:

[Kevin_Gamble]

KG > Kemp but the Sonics are not beating the 96 Bulls unless they get 2 KGs.

[atljonesbro]

Only on ish is Shawn Kemp better than KG smh. Let me guess, he's better because he was a 90s player? You bitter, pathetic, old men need to LET YOUR CHILDHOOD GO. I KNOW YOU THINK TONI KUKOC IS BETTER THAN LEBRON BUT HE'S NOT AND KEMP ISNT BETTER THAN KG IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE

[unbreakable]

Only on ish is Shawn Kemp better than KG smh. Let me guess, he's better because he was a 90s player? You bitter, pathetic, old men need to LET YOUR CHILDHOOD GO. I KNOW YOU THINK TONI KUKOC IS BETTER THAN LEBRON BUT HE'S NOT AND KEMP ISNT BETTER THAN KG IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE

this. kemp was never better than KG.

KG would demolish the bulls on both ends of the floor.. no way Rodman holds KG's intensity and fire.. and imagine KG helping out on jordan and pippen's dribble drives to the hoop?

sonics with KG in 96 = champs

[CAstill]

this. kemp was never better than KG.

KG would demolish the bulls on both ends of the floor.. no way Rodman holds KG's intensity and fire.. and imagine KG helping out on jordan and pippen's dribble drives to the hoop?

sonics with KG in 96 = champs
:facepalm

Clown. KG would get bullied on the boards by Rodman lol.
KG wouldn't of done anything different.
Bulls champs period.
96 Kemp>>>Prime KG.
Do you really think KG could gaurd Kemp? Did you even watch
Kemp in 96? I really don't think you did.

[Kevin_Gamble]

:facepalm

Clown. KG would get bullied on the boards by Rodman lol.
KG wouldn't of done anything different.
Bulls champs period.
96 Kemp>>>Prime KG.
Do you really think KG could gaurd Kemp? Did you even watch
Kemp in 96? I really don't think you did.

I think old KG right now could guard Kemp. Kemp was an amazing athlete but had a limited offensive game. KG has too much length and smarts for Kemp.

[CAstill]

I think old KG right now could guard Kemp. Kemp was an amazing athlete but had a limited offensive game. KG has too much length and smarts for Kemp.

Then you didn't watch the games saying stuff like that.
Kemp was actually very skilled and added to his game every season.
That nice turn around KG has isn't hitting on Kemp.
KG ain't stopping Kemp's fadeaway. Period. Or Baseline spin
for any matter. KG was good but not Kemp good.

[TheBigVeto]

:facepalm
They would be worse. Kemp was the reason they made it
through the playoffs. Kemps 95-96 season is the most
underrated finals run in ISH history. Garnett would of
not got past the Rockets or the Jazz. He for sure would
of got took by those bulls. Same results, different folks.

This.

[CavaliersFTW]

Only on ish is Shawn Kemp better than KG smh. Let me guess, he's better because he was a 90s player? You bitter, pathetic, old men need to LET YOUR CHILDHOOD GO. I KNOW YOU THINK TONI KUKOC IS BETTER THAN LEBRON BUT HE'S NOT AND KEMP ISNT BETTER THAN KG IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE

So 25-30 year old NBA fans who's childhoods were in the 90's are:

*bitter
*pathetic
*old men

Can you even drive yet? :roll:

[Da KO King]

Not sure when history was revised but that '96 Finals was decided by Gary Payton getting outplayed by Ron Harper in Games 1 and 2 and Detlef Schrempf not making a consistent impact.

[Owl]

So are you saying the Sonics would have beat the Bulls with KG instead of Kemp?

A prime KG does help but unless he was going to put up some ridiculous numbers, the Sonics still wouldn't take the Bulls. Reason being, Kemp had a really solid series. KG would probably have done a better job keeping Rodman off the offensive glass and reducing the Bulls 2nd chance opportunities would have been huge. But again we are talking about Rodman here.

Yes KG in his prime was as versatile a defender as they come but Kemp anchored that defense very well. KG would improve that team IMO, but enough to beat the Bulls? Tough to say.

Anyone else?
In terms of their title chances this hits the nail on the head fairly well (if we're assuming changing their team and their entire year doesn't affect how the other players play in the finals and also that Garnett's superior passing doesn't change anything). Kemp had a good series, that wasn't Seattle's problem.

Throughout that year (and his being on those Sonics teams throughout the 1990s) though the idea of Garnett with those teams is intriguing.

Even though they switched up Scottie Pippen for Olden Polynice (plus Sylvester Gray and the right to switch pick which they then screwed up) the early 90s Sonics had a monsterous aggressive, pressing, trapping defense.

Personnel included
Gary Payton (Usually considered 1st or 2nd greatest defensive pg, the other being Walt Frazier)
Kendall Gill (One time NBA spg leader)
Nate McMillan (One time spg leader playing 26 minutes a game, 3rd place all-time career steal%, all time single season leader in steal%)
Derrick McKey (Highly rated defender; long, athletic and agile; 2 time all-Defense 2nd team).

Now Kemp provided athleticism and blocks too, but if you could replace that with KG that would be one crazy defensive team.

And those that believe that Kemp was generally the better player, remember that despite playing with a player regarded to be one of the great point guards, Kemp broke the 20ppg barrier precisely once. And not in his prime in Seattle, but as a (surprisingly effective - on offense at least) lockout year fatty as the veteran centrepiece on a young Cleveland team.

[veilside23]

In terms of their title chances this hits the nail on the head fairly well (if we're assuming changing their team and their entire year doesn't affect how the other players play in the finals and also that Garnett's superior passing doesn't change anything). Kemp had a good series, that wasn't Seattle's problem.

Throughout that year (and his being on those Sonics teams throughout the 1990s) though the idea of Garnett with those teams is intriguing.

Even though they switched up Scottie Pippen for Olden Polynice (plus Sylvester Gray and the right to switch pick which they then screwed up) the early 90s Sonics had a monsterous aggressive, pressing, trapping defense.

Personnel included
Gary Payton (Usually considered 1st or 2nd greatest defensive pg, the other being Walt Frazier)
Kendall Gill (One time NBA spg leader)
Nate McMillan (One time spg leader playing 26 minutes a game, 3rd place all-time career steal%, all time single season leader in steal%)
Derrick McKey (Highly rated defender; long, athletic and agile; 2 time all-Defense 2nd team).

Now Kemp provided athleticism and blocks too, but if you could replace that with KG that would be one crazy defensive team.

And those that believe that Kemp was generally the better player, remember that despite playing with a player regarded to be one of the great point guards, Kemp broke the 20ppg barrier precisely once. And not in his prime in Seattle, but as a (surprisingly effective - on offense at least) lockout year fatty as the veteran centrepiece on a young Cleveland team.


this..

funny that we label kg as skinny when he made guys like stoudamire , bosh , and others play like fools just barely standing up and blocking their shots.

when kg played with prolly one of the greatest big man of all time if not the greatest TD. and SHAQ ... kg was able to put up a shot many times against an outstretch arms of shaq with a bump thats an old kg in 08 an old shaq but its still shaq .... now i dont know why people claim that kg would have a hard time getting his shot vs rodman.. dont get me wrong but rodman plays great defense but prime kg ? come on .. prime kg defeated an all star team with cwebb and divac as the two bigs... literally did everything..

i love kemp big fan .. but to say kg is less is a joke... kemp's highlight are just better but length of career and prime kg is almost equal to TD..

stop kidding yourself for once.

but am not betting against MJ

[Soundwave]

KG is a better player overall than Kemp, but if we're talking *strictly* 1996-era Kemp, that's pretty damn close.

Neither one is changing the outcome of that series.

The only reason the Sonics really won 2 games to begin with is because the Bulls got bored. They just went 72-10 in the regular season and then ripped through Miami/New York/Orlando like nothing and then were up 3-0 on Seattle.

Keep in mind Rodman was guarding a young Shaq just the series before ... that's 7'1 300+ pounds of raw power.

There's nothing KG was bringing to the table that was going to phase anyone on Chicago, period.

Bulls in six, either way.

[CAstill]

this..

funny that we label kg as skinny when he made guys like stoudamire , bosh , and others play like fools just barely standing up and blocking their shots.

when kg played with prolly one of the greatest big man of all time if not the greatest TD. and SHAQ ... kg was able to put up a shot many times against an outstretch arms of shaq with a bump thats an old kg in 08 an old shaq but its still shaq .... now i dont know why people claim that kg would have a hard time getting his shot vs rodman.. dont get me wrong but rodman plays great defense but prime kg ? come on .. prime kg defeated an all star team with cwebb and divac as the two bigs... literally did everything..

i love kemp big fan .. but to say kg is less is a joke... kemp's highlight are just better but length of career and prime kg is almost equal to TD..

stop kidding yourself for once.

but am not betting against MJ


Career wise KG>>>>Kemp
That's not the problem here.
The problem here is that KG has
never been better than 96 Kemp.
That year and that year only.
KG can match everything else
but in 96 Kemp was that good.
KG himself vs Kemp is getting bullied on the block.
Getting killed in the lane. Dunked on. Spun on.
Kemp 96 fadeaway. Research it! Think Mj gets high? lol
Anything! Kemp is killing KG.
Kemp was foul prone but not that year!
He put it all together and fell short to the GOAT.
What else could you say?

[veilside23]

Career wise KG>>>>Kemp
That's not the problem here.
The problem here is that KG has
never been better than 96 Kemp.
That year and that year only.
KG can match everything else
but in 96 Kemp was that good.
KG himself vs Kemp is getting bullied on the block.
Getting killed in the lane. Dunked on. Spun on.
Kemp 96 fadeaway. Research it! Think Mj gets high? lol
Anything! Kemp is killing KG.
Kemp was foul prone but not that year!
He put it all together and fell short to the GOAT.
What else could you say?


96 kemp ??? LoL watch what KG did with an old sam casell and a washed up spreewell... Kemp Killing KG??? HMMMM the only guy i would admit that can kill kg both offensively and defensively is tim duncan no one else.

If KG had that team that kemp had.. Gary payton Hersey hawkins and detleft Schremft (spelling). Just imagine KG made wally an all star... kemp maybe one of the most athletic big man .. but dont over rate it .... kemp did defeat a utah team that is as good as they come but kg beat a SAC town team that were clearly better than the wolves. :facepalm ...

Kemp as GOAT???? WTF! get outta here

[veilside23]

Career wise KG>>>>Kemp

Kemp 96 fadeaway. Research it! Think Mj gets high? lol

What else could you say?


funny though i need not to research it... son... yes high blake griffin fadeaway high my friend..

[CAstill]

96 kemp ??? LoL watch what KG did with an old sam casell and a washed up spreewell... Kemp Killing KG??? HMMMM the only guy i would admit that can kill kg both offensively and defensively is tim duncan no one else.

If KG had that team that kemp had.. Gary payton Hersey hawkins and detleft Schremft (spelling). Just imagine KG made wally an all star... kemp maybe one of the most athletic big man .. but dont over rate it .... kemp did defeat a utah team that is as good as they come but kg beat a SAC town team that were clearly better than the wolves. :facepalm ...

Kemp as GOAT???? WTF! get outta here

Are you kidding me. Wally could hit at that point.
Sam I AM was always clutch. Spreewell was good.
You have no clue. It was Cassell who stepped it up.
Maybe even Troy Hudson. You're tripping.
KG would be useless against Kemp, get real.

[veilside23]

Are you kidding me. Wally could hit at that point.
Sam I AM was always clutch. Spreewell was good.
You have no clue. It was Cassell who stepped it up.
Maybe even Troy Hudson. You're tripping.
KG would be useless against Kemp, get real.


compare those guys to gary payton hersey hawkins kendall gill detleft schrempf nate mcmillan... you are kidding your self.

[veilside23]

Are you kidding me. Wally could hit at that point.
Sam I AM was always clutch. Spreewell was good.
You have no clue. It was Cassell who stepped it up.
Maybe even Troy Hudson. You're tripping.
KG would be useless against Kemp, get real.


tripping? wow suddenly kemp is now the goat defender.. i want to know what world you live in maybe we can then start talking reality.

[CAstill]

tripping? wow suddenly kemp is now the goat defender.. i want to know what world you live in maybe we can then start talking reality.

:rolleyes:
Yeah the world where Kemp slays Hakeem, Karl Malone, and goes
toe to toe with Jordan in a finals battle compared to KG "Going to War'
with Brad Miller and never beating Duncan in a playoff.
Let alone NEVER reaching a finals in the West. Yeah that world!

[veilside23]

:rolleyes:
Yeah the world where Kemp slays Hakeem, Karl Malone, and goes
toe to toe with Jordan in a finals battle compared to KG "Going to War'
with Brad Miller and never beating Duncan in a playoff.
Let alone NEVER reaching a finals in the West. Yeah that world!

slays karl malone? LoL you are funny dude.... toe to toe with jordan? rofl....
brad miller? LoL ... if kemp didnt have payton he wouldnt have been that dominant believe me.. Kg never had a team mate as good as payton with his days in minny and yet got 2 wins in the lakers team that had a 3 peat yes that world... that you just deny kg of everything he achieved and think kemp is superior...

96 kemp is not touching 2003-2004 KG ... no one comes close ....

[FatComputerNerd]

Kemp was a great, possibly top 5 All-Time PF, but Prime Garnet > Him due to his overall versatility.

I say this as a HUGE Kemp and Sonics fan btw.

[CAstill]

slays karl malone? LoL you are funny dude.... toe to toe with jordan? rofl....
brad miller? LoL ... if kemp didnt have payton he wouldnt have been that dominant believe me.. Kg never had a team mate as good as payton with his days in minny and yet got 2 wins in the lakers team that had a 3 peat yes that world... that you just deny kg of everything he achieved and think kemp is superior...

96 kemp is not touching 2003-2004 KG ... no one comes close ....

Yeah he got wins with Cassell being the clutch player. Fact.
If Kemp didn't have Payton? Tell that to Gary.
Gary praises Kemp every chance he gets and calls
him the best player he's ever played with.
You're in denial.
Not impressed by 2 wins in a LOST series. Get real.

[Smoke117]

Kemp was a great, possibly top 5 All-Time PF, but Prime Garnet > Him due to his overall versatility.

I say this as a HUGE Kemp and Sonics fan btw.

Kemp is not close to possibly a top 5 All-Time PF.

Here is five pf's excluding Duncan who I consider a Center in no specific order which make it impossible for Kemp to be "possibly top 5":

Kevin Garnett
Charles Barkley
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Mchale
Karl Malone

Then there is a decent amount of other players that you could name that are above him. Shawn Kemp would never sniff a top 5 All-Time PF list.

[FatComputerNerd]

Kemp is not close to possibly a top 5 All-Time PF.

Here is five pf's excluding Duncan who I consider a Center in no specific order which make it impossible for Kemp to be "possibly top 5":

Kevin Garnett
Charles Barkley
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Mchale
Karl Malone

Then there is a decent amount of other players that you could name that are above him. Shawn Kemp would never sniff a top 5 All-Time PF list.

Arguments could be made for Kemp over Dirk, McHale, and Malone.

[Smoke117]

Arguments could be made for Kemp over Dirk, McHale, and Malone.

:facepalm

[RRR3]

Arguments could be made for Kemp over Dirk, McHale, and Malone.
:biggums:

[FatComputerNerd]

True story.

[Owl]

Arguments could be made for Kemp over Dirk, McHale, and Malone.
I don't think I've seen a list (and I've seen a lot of published lists) with Kemp over any of the following

Duncan
Malone
Garnett
Barkley
Pettit
McHale
Hayes
Schayes
and there are probably more (DeBusschere for one).

Maybe he'd have more of a chance in a list of peaks but then that would bring in Hawkins, Haywood, McGinnis etc.

[FatComputerNerd]

I don't think I've seen a list (and I've seen a lot of published lists) with Kemp over any of the following

Duncan
Malone
Garnett
Barkley
Pettit
McHale
Hayes
Schayes
and there are probably more (DeBusschere for one).

Maybe he'd have more of a chance in a list of peaks but then that would bring in Hawkins, Haywood, McGinnis etc.

You are most likely right.

I didn't say Kemp WAS better than the guys I listed, I just said that arguments could be made.

BTW, you forgot Webber =-)

[veilside23]

Yeah he got wins with Cassell being the clutch player. Fact.
If Kemp didn't have Payton? Tell that to Gary.
Gary praises Kemp every chance he gets and calls
him the best player he's ever played with.
You're in denial.
Not impressed by 2 wins in a LOST series. Get real.

LoL its obvious that every team mate would praise each other come on..

Gary also Praised vin BAKER! .... and why do you say that Casell is Clutch why???

did Shawn Kemp had alot of game winners over KG.... Am waiting!!!!

:no:

[Kevin_Gamble]

I don't think I've seen a list (and I've seen a lot of published lists) with Kemp over any of the following

Duncan
Malone
Garnett
Barkley
Pettit
McHale
Hayes
Schayes
and there are probably more (DeBusschere for one).

Maybe he'd have more of a chance in a list of peaks but then that would bring in Hawkins, Haywood, McGinnis etc.

You forgot Rodman.

[Yung D-Will]

This thread has effectively showed the problems with Revisonist history.

On what possible planet is Kemp arguable to be ranked above the likes of Malone and KG?:biggums:

[CAstill]

LoL its obvious that every team mate would praise each other come on..

Gary also Praised vin BAKER! .... and why do you say that Casell is Clutch why???

did Shawn Kemp had alot of game winners over KG.... Am waiting!!!!

:no:

:biggums:
What does that even mean? Are you asking if Kemp has game winners
over KG? I don't think they we're ever in that situation but
you can bet your bottom dollar that Kemp would if he was.

Show me where Gary says Vin baker is the best he's ever played with.
He might of been optimistic about him joining the team back in the day but
that about it.

I'm not saying Kemp should be ranked higher than KG. Nor am I saying
KG isn't one of the best of all time. All I'm saying is that pound for pound
no version of KG in his prime could stop a 96 Kemp. That's it.
KG was great but Kemp was a killer. You couldn't ask more
of a person for a playoff run other than win the title. He faced Jordan
with a 72-10 team. It is what it is. KG wouldn't of done any better.

[FatComputerNerd]

KG was obviously > Kemp overall, but nevertheless, CAstill has won the debate.

[Owl]

You forgot Rodman.
Nope I've seen Kemp above Rodman. Heroes of the Hardcourt by Keith Thompson lists Kemp at 77 and Rodman at 80 (GOAT type list), as does Need To Argue Make a List (Basketball) by Steve Franco who has Kemp 60th amongst all-time forwards with Rodman at 71.


You are most likely right.

I didn't say Kemp WAS better than the guys I listed, I just said that arguments could be made.

BTW, you forgot Webber =-)
Again actually no I was doing a safe list off the top of my head and as I said I'm sure there are others but the aforementioned Need to Argue has Webber 78th amongst all-time forwards. His are assuredly some of the more eccentric lists, but that only goes to strengthen my point that of the many lists I've seen with the multiple different rankings of players I've seen, Kemp is not a top 5 power forward and hasn't and won't be argued above any of the players listed. He'll never be listed above Dirk on any list from after Dirk completed his prime (added to my original list and we have a top 10 which Kemp will never crack) and there are a number of active power forwards who are to vary degrees likely to and capaple of surpassing Shawn Kemp.

[veilside23]

:biggums:
What does that even mean? Are you asking if Kemp has game winners
over KG? I don't think they we're ever in that situation but
you can bet your bottom dollar that Kemp would if he was.

Show me where Gary says Vin baker is the best he's ever played with.
He might of been optimistic about him joining the team back in the day but
that about it.

I'm not saying Kemp should be ranked higher than KG. Nor am I saying
KG isn't one of the best of all time. All I'm saying is that pound for pound
no version of KG in his prime could stop a 96 Kemp. That's it.
KG was great but Kemp was a killer. You couldn't ask more
of a person for a playoff run other than win the title. He faced Jordan
with a 72-10 team. It is what it is. KG wouldn't of done any better.


well you stressed out that as if it was casell who carried that wolves team that kg led to the WCF. on the other hand you praised KEMP as if his team mates were scrubs... in all honesty are you going to take sam casell over gary payton ?

kemp's team mates at that time were not scrubs jordan's team mates on the other hand were sub par outside of rodman and pippen ... not really alot of talent there...

seatles line up was actually better in paper... :rolleyes:

2003-2004 kg surely is better than kemp's 96 season.... or any other season that you can think of

2003-2004 kg is almost = to the best season of TD.

[CAstill]

well you stressed out that as if it was casell who carried that wolves team that kg led to the WCF. on the other hand you praised KEMP as if his team mates were scrubs... in all honesty are you going to take sam casell over gary payton ?

kemp's team mates at that time were not scrubs jordan's team mates on the other hand were sub par outside of rodman and pippen ... not really alot of talent there...

seatles line up was actually better in paper... :rolleyes:

2003-2004 kg surely is better than kemp's 96 season.... or any other season that you can think of

2003-2004 kg is almost = to the best season of TD.

I stressed it because it was Cassell who hit the clutch shots for his team
while it was Kemp for his. You would think it was Gary for the Sonics
and KG for the Wolves but no.
And No I wouldn't take Cassell over Gary but I would take
the competition Cassell and KG faced in that season over
what Kemp had to overcome in 96.
Kemp did not have scrub teamates, never said or implied he did.
He lost to the one of the GOAT teams which YOU just called filled
with scrubs past Rodamn and Pippen. Toni Kukoc was 6th man of the year.
Steve Kerr sounds was a killer spot up shooter. Luc was solid.
Harper was good too and gave Gary the business in the first two games.
They had players.

Seatle was also inexperienced and it did not matter what was
said on paper as the game is played on the court :rolleyes:


And like I said no one is saying KG shouldn't be ranked higher
he just wasn't a ever a better player than 96 Kemp.
Steve Nash won an MVP in 06 he wasn't better than
a 93 Jordan who didn't. Same Logic. KG played great that year.
He won it. Props. Guess what? Still not better than 96 Kemp.
Those guys play the same position, KG would not be able
to contain Kemp off the glass or in the lane.
You're arguing career vs skill in a skills competition
with a career argument. You're not going to win.


and TD>>>Garnett so why is even being brought up?

Stick to Garnett getting his ass whooped by Kemp
Don't go get yourelf killed with Duncan :no:

[veilside23]

I stressed it because it was Cassell who hit the clutch shots for his team
while it was Kemp for his. You would think it was Gary for the Sonics
and KG for the Wolves but no.
and TD>>>Garnett so why is even being brought up?

Stick to Garnett getting his ass whooped by Kemp
Don't go get yourelf killed with Duncan :no:


LoL at kemp hitting and getting them over the hump kemp is not the michael jordan of his team.. it was a total team effort.

If jordan had kemp's team mate he would have swept the bulls .... thats how superior the team mate of kemp over the bulls.

you admit that kemp didnt have scrubs but kg had it when they face the LA dynasty with shaq.. yes it was just 2 games but the only support kg had was sidelined and injured... cant say it could have been more.

give me a statline that kemp totally dominated the game at both ends in 96..

because i am pretty sure i can give you 5 or 6 games that KG literally did everything for his team .... not as the same breath as Kemp did....

[Bigsmoke]

Would not beat Utah.

the Sonics won that series because of Payton going apeshit on Stockton anyway.

[Bigsmoke]

The Sonics played way better teams than the 08 Celtics. Here is Boston's road to the finals that season:

Atlanta- got taken to 7 games by a young sub .500 Hawks team
Cleveland- Got taken to 7 games by a team with Delonte West as the 2nd option
Detroit- Good team but way past prime
LA- Played Lakers without Bynum and Ariza

:applause:

you can also agree that playing with Pierce and Allen isnt like playing with prime Gary Payton.

i still think the Bulls would win but who knows?

[FatComputerNerd]

Prime Kemp > Dirk

[CAstill]

LoL at kemp hitting and getting them over the hump kemp is not the michael jordan of his team.. it was a total team effort.

If jordan had kemp's team mate he would have swept the bulls .... thats how superior the team mate of kemp over the bulls.

you admit that kemp didnt have scrubs but kg had it when they face the LA dynasty with shaq.. yes it was just 2 games but the only support kg had was sidelined and injured... cant say it could have been more.

give me a statline that kemp totally dominated the game at both ends in 96..

because i am pretty sure i can give you 5 or 6 games that KG literally did everything for his team .... not as the same breath as Kemp did....

Kemp was the best player on the Sonics, he didn't have to be Jordan.
He was Kemp.

And you're a complete fool if you think Jordan on the Sonics was
beating those Bulls with Kemp.
Kemp Pippen Rodam>>>Jordan Payton Scrempf
Have fun getting gaurded by Pippen with Kemp to trap
and play the lane with Rodman waiting to rebound and
piss everybody off.


I never said KG had scrub teamates. He actually had the highest
scoring trio in the league that year :roll:

Why do you think I brought up that Cassell point?
He wasn't a scrub, Sam I am was clutch.
Sprewell was putting near 20ppg with good D.
When Cassell went out Wally Stepped in.
He was lights out!
So don't give me that scrub excuse.

96 Kemp>>>03 KG

[veilside23]

Kemp was the best player on the Sonics, he didn't have to be Jordan.
He was Kemp.


96 Kemp>>>03 KG


what is your basis ??? ok want to know what others think time to start a thread then! lets continue our discussion there all that you can say is Sam i am is clutch as if the guy scored more points than payton in the entire series...

Kendall gill >> cassell at that time.. Cassell is not the same guy as he was in houston dont fool your self.. all that you can say is kemp 96 >> KG ... kemp cant even guard tony kukoch for what its worth.. and you think Kemp can guard KG??

And LoL If kemp went to the bulls he wont even make it to the conference finals believe me...Payton Hawkins Shrempf all did their part... not like what MJ did for chicago bulls

as if you are saying that 96 kemp is even better than 96 MJ... you are a kemp ******ger :) i rest my case here... Time to see what others would think!

[veilside23]

oh btw castill 08 KG ... championship year is better than any of your kemp's version..... BETTER!!!!!!!!!

[Bigsmoke]

Kemp was the best player on the Sonics, he didn't have to be Jordan.
He was Kemp.

And you're a complete fool if you think Jordan on the Sonics was
beating those Bulls with Kemp.
Kemp Pippen Rodam>>>Jordan Payton Scrempf
Have fun getting gaurded by Pippen with Kemp to trap
and play the lane with Rodman waiting to rebound and
piss everybody off.


I never said KG had scrub teamates. He actually had the highest
scoring trio in the league that year :roll:

Why do you think I brought up that Cassell point?
He wasn't a scrub, Sam I am was clutch.
Sprewell was putting near 20ppg with good D.
When Cassell went out Wally Stepped in.
He was lights out!
So don't give me that scrub excuse.

96 Kemp>>>03 KG


^

stupidity at its finest right here

[Kevin_Gamble]

Nope I've seen Kemp above Rodman. Heroes of the Hardcourt by Keith Thompson lists Kemp at 77 and Rodman at 80 (GOAT type list), as does Need To Argue Make a List (Basketball) by Steve Franco who has Kemp 60th amongst all-time forwards with Rodman at 71.


That's kind of a shock. Kemp may get you more points, but Rodman was superior at literally every other facet of the game, and vastly superior at many of them (rebounding, defending without fouling out, passing, playing offense without the ball, etc.)