oh F#$%. Greenland is melting and fast.

[KevinNYC]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/27/greenland-ice-sheet-melt


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/7/24/1343166053638/Greenland-ice-sheet-compo-008.jpg
The Greenland ice sheet on July 8, left, and four days later on the right. An estimated 97% of the ice sheet surface had thawed by July 12. Photograph: Nasa
This is the most frightening picture you will ever see. The information expressed visually here can be summed up in three words: change or die. So let's take a closer look.

These two juxtaposed images of Greenland are based on observations by satellites monitored by Nasa. The view on the left synthesises their collective view of this inhospitable landmass in the Arctic Circle on 8 July 2012. That on the right shows what Greenland looked like to the same satellites on 12 July, just four days later. A huge amount of ice has melted in an extremely unusual Arctic heatwave.

It's important to appreciate the colour coding of this visible science. Areas marked in white are places where no surface melting of the Greenland ice sheet has taken place. Areas in pale pink were seen by just one satellite to undergo surface melting. Areas in dark pink were seen by two or three satellites to undergo surface melting.

Let's also be clear about what "surface melting" means. The Greenland icecsheet has not vanished. Parts of it are two miles deep: the entire area it covers is six times bigger than Britain. That's a vast quantity of ice. Every summer, parts of the surface of this immense frozen world melt. Temporary lakes even appear on top of the ancient ice mass. Such activity on the surface of the ice sheet has been observed to be growing. But nothing prepared Nasa scientists analysing satellite data this month for the information visualised here. According to these images, 97% of the surface of Greenland's frozen interior saw a sudden summer melt this month. That is a spectacular departure from the expected.

[KevinNYC]

Also this just came out. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/the-conversion-of-a-climate-change-skeptic.html?pagewanted=all)

The Conversion of a Climate-Change Skeptic

CALL me a converted skeptic. Three years ago I identified problems in previous climate studies that, in my mind, threw doubt on the very existence of global warming. Last year, following an intensive research effort involving a dozen scientists, I concluded that global warming was real and that the prior estimates of the rate of warming were correct. I’m now going a step further: Humans are almost entirely the cause.

My total turnaround, in such a short time, is the result of careful and objective analysis by the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project, which I founded with my daughter Elizabeth. Our results show that the average temperature of the earth’s land has risen by two and a half degrees Fahrenheit over the past 250 years, including an increase of one and a half degrees over the most recent 50 years. Moreover, it appears likely that essentially all of this increase results from the human emission of greenhouse gases.

These findings are stronger than those of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the United Nations group that defines the scientific and diplomatic consensus on global warming. In its 2007 report, the I.P.C.C. concluded only that most of the warming of the prior 50 years could be attributed to humans.

[andgar923]

These things happen my n!gga
:oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

This is the most frightening picture you will ever see. The information expressed visually here can be summed up in three words: change or die.

More people would take this shit serious if they didnt over dramatize it so.

Just makes them sound like alarmist hippies while the world goes on around them.

The world has faced global warming and cooling in far more extreme ways than the human race can cause and even if its much quicker than usual....its shown that the world can take it. It may one day really start to annoy those of us in the wrong places.

but change or die? **** outta here. Animals survived the coming and going of ice ages and times when the world was a lot hotter than global warming is gonna make it in the next 5 generations. Many went extinct but they didnt have coats, fire, AC, and the many other things we have. People have been getting by in Siberia and the North Pole for thousands of years....same of the middle east and the sahara. But climate change moving the extreme spots around over a period of decades(an impossibly fast period of time anyway) is gonna destroy humanity?


Even if a lot of us die(and I doubt it) there are bigger potential threats.

[SAKOTXA]

Yaaay. We're going to be able to witness the end of the world as we know it.

Come on guys, don't you feel special?!

[DCL]

we all live in the "now." our great grand kids would probably die of old age before sh!t gets serious, so nobody really cares at the moment.

[Legend of Josh]

Greenland has been sweating more than a whore in church for a good decade or so now, and things are only going to get worse. At this point, I'm not sure if the trend is even remotely reversible, but any and all actions we as humans can do at this point is worth the attempt.

I don't see some "Day After Tomorrow" ordeal in the near future, but at some point in the coming years, decades - something is bound to give-in, and more than likely, us as a planet are NOT going to be prepared for the consequences. It's human nature to just pass the buck and wait for the worst to happen before we act in response to "counter attack" if you will ... but at that point, no amount of $ or global effort will be enough to set things right.

I'm no scientist ... but if you ask me ... we're all fu*ked.

[Legend of Josh]

we all live in the "now." our great grand kids would probably die of old age before sh!t gets serious, so nobody really cares at the moment.

This is what everyone has been saying for the past 20 years if not more... but every five years or so huge populations percentages of scientists, political figures and just the everyday population has been learning in the direction that it's no longer a two or three generational problem, but something that is sneaking up on us right in our own back yards, NOW TODAY... not in multiple decade away. If you live in the US - is the current weather of this summer (the hottest on record) any indication maybe there's some truth to all this?

Let's say worst case scenario and it's our grandchildren ... is the Chevy Volt right now today the answer to everything? ... when we're still burning more fossil fuels daily more than we did the day before, EVEN WITH advancements in alternate energy solutions? We're not doing enough to slow down the sleeping giant, and to say "it's something our grandchildren can worry about when the time comes" is practically saying "let's just keep partying like it's 1999 b/c we're all fu*ked anyway!"

[KevinNYC]

Animals survived the coming and going of ice ages and times when the world was a lot hotter than global warming is gonna make it in the next 5 generations. Many went extinct but they didnt have coats, fire, AC, and the many other things we have. People have been getting by in Siberia and the North Pole for thousands of years....same of the middle east and the sahara. But climate change moving the extreme spots around over a period of decades(an impossibly fast period of time anyway) is gonna destroy humanity?


Even if a lot of us die(and I doubt it) there are bigger potential threats.

People have not lived at the North Pole for thousands of years. This guy
http://www.nationalgeographic.de/thumbnails/lightbox/30/69/00/robert-peary-6930.jpg

and this guy
http://5thsocialstudies.pbworks.com/f/Matthew%20henson%20photo.jpg
got there 103 years ago.
You mean the Arctic.

Humans have used fire for over 100,000 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans) and had ovens for at least 20,000 years.


Also this simply boils down to what you mean by 'getting by' because a warmer planet will probably not be able to support as many humans as it does today. There would be giant changes for agriculture. A warmer planet also raises the levels of acidity in the oceans which would also affect our food supply. It also means rising sea levels. I live on an island 2-300 yards from the water.

How many generations will it be before nobody is able to get by where I got by?

[blacknapalm]

ya, very few people live on the north pole or in antarctica outside of scientists. i still get what kblaze was trying to get across, mainly the idea that humans don't drastically change the external trends of what is occurring in as little as few generations. limit CFC's, emissions and nuclear power (still controversial).

i've seen info and research on both sides and still really have to brush up on it more because it's been a while. i am fairly convinced that most sample sizes are misleading and not large enough. a few hundred years of recorded data is nothing in regards to the history of man. i don't want to dismiss it but in my cynical standpoint, i understand those that would push it (or de-push it, mind you).

don't get me wrong...humanity needs to act now if there's a verifiable, sustaining threat. the powers that be might have a different say. there's so many factions and lobbyists that have personal interests here.

my father actually worked in greenland for nearly a year during the daytime hours. he said no one even spent more than 15 minutes outside close to the work area. i think his main point was that it was easy to lose your mind there. you had to eat in the cafeteria for every meal and then on top of that, you couldn't even really go outside for a smoke break. you couldn't go outside to get food, to get away, to hang out. you were just stuck in the facility.

it was too damn cold and the only thing around were arctic foxes. 21 hours of daylight, 24 hours of subzero temperatures. i know he won't have any special insight but i'll pass this along to him anyway

[Legend of Josh]

ya, very few people live on the north pole or in antarctica outside of scientists. i still get what kblaze was trying to get across, mainly the idea that humans don't drastically change the external trends of what is occurring in as little as few generations. limit CFC's, emissions and nuclear power (still controversial).

i've seen info and research on both sides and still really have to brush up on it more because it's been a while. i am fairly convinced that most sample sizes are misleading and not large enough. a few hundred years of recorded data is nothing in regards to the history of man. i don't want to dismiss it but in my cynical standpoint, i understand those that would push it (or de-push it, mind you).

don't get me wrong...humanity needs to act now if there's a verifiable, sustaining threat. the powers that be might have a different say. there's so many factions and lobbyists that have personal interests here.

my father actually worked in greenland for nearly a year during the daytime hours. he said no one even spent more than 15 minutes outside close to the work area. i think his main point was that it was easy to lose your mind there. you had to eat in the cafeteria for every meal and then on top of that, you couldn't even really go outside for a smoke break. you couldn't go outside to get food, to get away, to hang out. you were just stuck in the facility.

it was too damn cold and the only thing around were arctic foxes. 21 hours of daylight, 24 hours of subzero temperatures. i know he won't have any special insight but i'll pass this along to him anyway

The fact that many people don't live in the Arctic Circle doesn't mean its changing composition doesn't impact those outside of the Arctic Circle. I'm not sure of the approx. percentage, but there's a significant chunk of the human population that reside on coastal regions of our planet ... and thus unfreezing ice caps that do not freeze back in the winter entirely (which is what is happening slowly, and much and much more surely!) would effect coastal cities across the entire planet, not just Greenland, Canada, Northern Europe and Russia; it's a global alteration of all connecting bodies of water (all oceans, huge seas, etc.).

[Kews1]

global warming =

http://moore-photographs.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/Beach-2.jpg

i dont see the problem here.

:lol

[QuebecBaller]

5 months ago, there was snow everywhere, it was cold as f**k. And now, I can swim in a pool everyday.

Some people are calling this global warming... I call this: Summer!
:D

[Meticode]

Both pictures of Greenland are the same. The only difference is NASA went back in and MS Painted in white squares on the pic on the left.

[-p.tiddy-]

How come the ocean is the same level its always been?

No ones beach houses are flooding...

[Legend of Josh]

How come the ocean is the same level its always been?

No ones beach houses are flooding...

Not yet. There hasn't been a significant enough melting volume to make a noticeable impact. However, when it happens at vital enough levels, it'll be like a domino effect.

[brantonli]

global warming =

http://moore-photographs.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/Beach-2.jpg

i dont see the problem here.

:lol


....um any more warming and that island would cease to exist pretty quickly.

[Kblaze8855]

When I say north pole its pretty clear what I mean.

The average HIGH in january in Yakutsk Russia is 34 below zero. Its been 90 below. 200 thousand people live there. In Barrow Alaska its usually below freezing until July when its 40 degrees on average. In parts of Libya near where 300,000 people live year round its been 136 degrees. Its been 128 in Arizona. Phoenix is 110-115 on a pretty regular basis.

If where I live(South Carolina) turns to Phoenix and phoenix turns to Libya....or Minnesota turns to Russia...whatever.


Its gonna take decades if not hundreds of years and people will adjust.

If humanity got by before recorded history in gotdamn Africa, southeast asia, and all that...with handheld weapons, being eaten by shit like Terrorbirds and freezing at night huddled up together hoping something doesnt come kill them all....

I suspect we get by when the climate changes to something humanity has already survived when we didnt have cars, heaters, guns, AC, and so on.

The level of this threat has always been made out to be more than it is. There has not been a climate humanity couldnt endure in a couple hundred million years at least. You dam nnear have to go back to when the earth didnt have enough trees yet to support our oxygen needs to find a version we couldnt get by on with our modern tools. And when you get back to the giant sea scorpions and fish/reptile hybrids taking their first breaths....you were a really ****ing long way back. And nothing humanity has the power to do could impact the climate enough to get us there.

I mean...maybe if you go fire every nuke you have at the Taiga forest we might **** up the oxygen?

But to say:


This is the most frightening picture you will ever see. The information expressed visually here can be summed up in three words: change or die.

because of Greenlands ice melting? Its just a joke and that kind of alarmist bullshit is exactly why normal people dont take it serious. These people are hurting their own cause.

Im a hell of a lot more worried about how my family would get by without me than im ever gonna be about some gotdamn ice that isnt gonna change anything in a major way in the next 300 years and even if it did would just shift around exactly where the annoyingly hot/cold places are as people adjust to it.

The Day After tomorrow shit will not happen. And even if it did...we would endure.

Its change or...be annoyed sooner than we would be anyway once another ice age starts. Hot or cold...the climate is gonna go way one direction then back the other no matter what we do just as it has for a billion years. If it happens faster than usual....its a few hundred years and not a few million.

Humanity began in an ice age. We are technically still at the end of that one. If a ****ing caveman managed to get by I suspect I will too.

I have central heat and air.

And you know what coastal cities would do if they started to gradually flood over 2-3 years(an impossibly fast period of time by the way)?

Move back. The entire city of New Orleans flooded in a day in the middle of a huge storm as well. Not even 2000 people died. And that was all at once...during a massive storm. Not gradually over 30 years....

I hope greenland never refreezes. Just to see what the "Change or die!" people say when life goes on with the coast...slightly moved. Bet they show footage of flooded coastal areas like "We told you so!" while not a single person has been hurt by it and the people who moved a bit turn the channel.

[FatComputerNerd]

Time to learn to swim!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8vmaj75xzE

2012 baby!!! :rockon:

[Kblaze8855]

Just feels like people acting like they are the keepers of the hidden truth should be telling more of the...truth.

These peoples great great grandkids will be saying "Now is the time! Its almost over!" like christians have been saying Jesus is coming back "soon" for 900 years.

[Hazard]

The weather is getting progressively more violent (lightning storms, hurricanes, earthquakes, droughts, wildfires), it will peak at some point and the question is whether the human and animal population will survive it. Personally I want that question to be answered in my lifetime. People do have an affect on the climate, its ignorant to think otherwise. Instead of helping the situation we are only expediting the process, and creating an unlivable world for our children and grandchildren.

[DuMa]

I'm gonna contribute to this discussion the best way i can.

Surf's up brah

[Kblaze8855]

This dude really just mention earthquakes?

I hate people.......

[FatComputerNerd]

Exactly. We could evolve into Kevin Costner in Waterworld.

http://i2.listal.com/image/1509817/600full-waterworld-screenshot.jpg

Dude, people consider that among the worst movies of all time but I LOVE it!

[Meticode]

Dude, people consider that among the worst movies of all time but I LOVE it!
It's always a good watch. Just a good sit back and, "Oh, this is what the world would be like with water. Cool." movie.

[Hazard]

This dude really just mention earthquakes?

I hate people.......
You don't think digging underground for resources jeopardizes the stability of fault lines? Especially if those who are doing the digging are ****ing morons, which seems to be the case quite often.

Oh and if you hate people then do the world a favor and blow your brains out. I'm willing to bet that those psychos that shoot up movie theaters have similar thoughts.

[Meticode]

You don't think digging underground for resources jeopardizes the stability of fault lines? Especially if those who are doing the digging are ****ing morons, which seems to be the case quite often.
Hard to say, the furtherest we've digged is what 7 or 8 miles or something? Not sure. I personally don't think we've scratched the surface of effecting fault lines yet.

[Hazard]

Hard to say, the furtherest we've digged is what 7 or 8 miles or something? Not sure. I personally don't think we've scratched the surface of effecting fault lines yet.
Digging 7 or 8 miles around fault lines will most certainly affect it. The rock fractures as it is broken through. Digging 7 or 8 miles into a bed rock can cause pretty significant damage and can affect the area on a whole radius rather than just the digging site.

[Meticode]

Digging 7 or 8 miles around fault lines will most certainly affect it. The rock fractures as it is broken through. Digging 7 or 8 miles into a bed rock can cause pretty significant damage and can affect the area on a whole radius rather than just the digging site.
Maybe who knows? I don't think we've effect something that runs thousands of miles deep. Too many other variables that can effect that. I think if we get hundrends of miles then yes, but 7 or 8 miles in something that runs thousands of miles into the earth?

[Hazard]

Maybe who knows? I don't think we've effect something that runs thousands of miles deep. Too many other variables that can effect that. I think if we get hundrends of miles then yes, but 7 or 8 miles in something that runs thousands of miles into the earth?
Its definitely hard to tell. There are a lot of factors to attribute to the movement of plates. I came across this article (http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/humans-start-earthquake.htm), which basically breaks down the process of how a dam can help an already unstable fault line to shift.

This part I thought was interesting:

When a dam is built and the reservoir filled with water, the amount of pressure exerted on the earth in that area changes dramatically. When the water level of a reservoir is raised, pressure on the underlying ground increases; when the water level is lowered, the pressure decreases. This fluctuation can stress the delicate balance between tectonic plates beneath the surface, possibly causing them to shift.
Another factor is the water itself. When the water pressure increases, more of it is forced into the ground, filling cracks and crevices. All of this water pressure can expand those cracks and even create new, tiny ones in the rock, causing greater instability below ground. What's more, as the water sinks deeper, it can act as sort of a lubricant for rock plates that are being held in place by friction alone. The lubrication can cause those plates to slip.

[Kblaze8855]

You don't think digging underground for resources jeopardizes the stability of fault lines? Especially if those who are doing the digging are ****ing morons, which seems to be the case quite often.

I think that you like many people dont know a gotdamn thing about the world and vastly overstate the power of the human race to change it in major ways. One of those "Well...what if our ___ is causing ___" people who ask questions they cant answer on subjects experts can only offer a theory or two on. Its fear mongering and little else.


Oh and if you hate people then do the world a favor and blow your brains out. I'm willing to bet that those psychos that shoot up movie theaters have similar thoughts.

Im sure people who dedicate their time to helping war crime victims have similar thoughts too.

[Hazard]

I think that you like many people dont know a gotdamn thing about the world and vastly overstate the power of the human race to change it in major ways. One of those "Well...what if our ___ is causing ___" people who ask questions they cant answer on subjects experts can only offer a theory or two on. Its fear mongering and little else.
If there is infinite scientific data contributing to the 'fear mongering' then it cant really be that off base can it? Oh and feel free to educate me with your infinite knowledge since I'm such a goddamn simpleton. I should have known I'm dealing with an expert who dedicated an endless amount of time researching the topic at hand.

I can agree that there is no way we can reverse the damage we did. Just sit back and watch the show.

Im sure people who dedicate their time to helping war crime victims have similar thoughts too.
Those who dedicate their time to helping war crime victims are more than likely to understand that people who are placed in that situation are forced to act if they want to survive. Its very easy to sit in front of your computer screen and make baseless statements about shit you cant even begin to understand. I don't hate people, I just hate goddamn fools.

[DeuceWallaces]

More people would take this shit serious if they didnt over dramatize it so.

Just makes them sound like alarmist hippies while the world goes on around them.

The world has faced global warming and cooling in far more extreme ways than the human race can cause and even if its much quicker than usual....its shown that the world can take it. It may one day really start to annoy those of us in the wrong places.

but change or die? **** outta here. Animals survived the coming and going of ice ages and times when the world was a lot hotter than global warming is gonna make it in the next 5 generations. Many went extinct but they didnt have coats, fire, AC, and the many other things we have. People have been getting by in Siberia and the North Pole for thousands of years....same of the middle east and the sahara. But climate change moving the extreme spots around over a period of decades(an impossibly fast period of time anyway) is gonna destroy humanity?


Even if a lot of us die(and I doubt it) there are bigger potential threats.

Lol. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Kblaze8855]

Sure I dont. The world will end over weather its already experienced in even more extreme ways.

This time...its different. People are here to bitch about it on the internet. That makes the problem so much worse.

"If we dont ____ its all over!" has been the cry of every jackass pushing some agenda since the beginning of time. Be it idiots saying Obama is gonna destroy our way of life, to christians predicting the end times every 20 years, to scientists worried about global cooling...and then global warming.

People dedicated their lives to the knowledge of such things in the 70s and would have been telling me I didnt know what I was talking about then too when the world getting colder was the threat.

Doomsday predictions have persisted in human socieity since the dawn of recorded history and every single one of them gets believed by some fanatical sect while everyone else disregards them and ends up right.

This will be no exception.

Know when ill buy that we have to do something or die?

When I see an asteroid in the sky large enough to wipe us out.

The weather...can annoy. Perhaps it can really really annoy. But if prehistoric humans made it through the ice age with glaciers down deep in America and europe and they made it with ****ing sticks and cunning....I suspect we will get by a higher sea level.

People have been yelling this idiocy for 20 years of nothing happening and will yell it for 30 more till our generation is gone and a new era of alarmists will be saying "Something has to be done now....for the chiiiiiiiiildren. Wont somebody pleeeeeeeeease think of the CHILDREN!"

Nothing has to be done. Maybe it should be. But it wont. And then...life will go on.


A version of me has been right every single time for thousands of years and ill be right now. "We wont survive!" has been screamed by people who dont know as much as they think they do about the world and by people who underrate the ability of humanity to adapt forever.

Its 3,120,098 to 0 in favor of the guy saying "Shut up....we will be fine"

You will not break the streak because some ice is melting and the sea level may rise.

[stax]

This is the most frightening picture you will ever see.

Pffft no it's not. This (http://i.imgur.com/rSLDb.png) is.

[KevinNYC]

5 months ago, there was snow everywhere, it was cold as f**k. And now, I can swim in a pool everyday.

Some people are calling this global warming... I call this: Summer!
:D

That joke is older the Glaciers in Greenland. I think the Last Time it was funny was just after humans walked over the ice bridge from Siberia.

Also
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/03/26/us-winter-2011-2012-fourth-warmest-recorded-history

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/03/19/the-winter-that-never-was/

[L.Kizzle]

It's summertime, it's supposed to thaw out!

:biggums:

[KevinNYC]

L. Kizzle, you're a font of wisdom about black popular culture, but you're obviously not a glacier expert

[Meticode]

L. Kizzle, you obviously don't understand glaciers or permafrost.
You could've said, "L.Kizzle, you're black." And we would've known what you meant.

[L.Kizzle]

L. Kizzle, you're a font of wisdom about black popular culture, but you're obviously not a glacier expert
It's a glacier in my freezer right now.

[MMM]

I'm not an environmentalist but it seems clear to me that humanity is living way beyond its means. Our modern lifestyle especially in the developed world is not sustainable and as developing nation continue to put pressures on natural resources the situation is going to only become worse. Whether you believe in climate change or not I think the solution is to role back many of the convenient luxuries we enjoy.

[Kblaze8855]

I totally believe in climate change. I even accept we may have something to do with it. I just dont buy it ending humanity or being something thatj ustifies the borderline panic ive seen from some.

[KevinNYC]

It's a glacier in my freezer right now.

I've got an anaconda in my pants, it doesn't make me a herpetologist.

[jbot]

al gore still gettin paid.

[-p.tiddy-]

How come the ocean is the same level its always been?

No ones beach houses are flooding...
seriously though...every single year this issue comes up and yet eery single year the ocean level remains nearly the same...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Recent_Sea_Level_Rise.png

^^^ that is centemeters


at this rate, the ocean level will raise less than 20 cms before I die...which means the houses on the coast will still be fine, probably won't even notice the difference at all.

[CelticBaller]

good now it can live up to its name

[Scholar]

Even if a lot of us die(and I doubt it) there are bigger potential threats.

We're all going to die one day. It may not be the entire human race together, but individually, each of us on this planet today will meet death, just like each person before us has.

[gigantes]

I totally believe in climate change. I even accept we may have something to do with it. I just dont buy it ending humanity or being something thatj ustifies the borderline panic ive seen from some.
given the extremely shaky state of global economies and their highly interconnected nature, i can totally see the reason for panic. i mean, it wouldn't take much to push the whole thing over the edge, and the effects of GCC keep getting worse every year. hence, a reason to panic.

not a reason to panic and go apeshit, however. moreso a reason to get off our asses, take this stuff with the seriousness it merits, and push for civilisation to go truly green ASAP. i don't think anyone wants to see panic for panic's sake.

personally i suspect it's too late, however. greg craven (the "how it all ends" guy) had the right idea and right presentation, but it wasn't remotely close enough to overcome the tremendous impetus of society and man's animal nature, i.e. always take care of yourself first.

...


maybe my grandkids will have to worry about the problem.
:lol the effects are already getting severe all over the US, australia and other areas of the world, people are already dying due to increased heatwaves, increased storms, increased natural disasters... and other people are dismissing all this... punting the problem down the road to their non-existent grandkids? yea, well... good luck escaping to your video game realities when the power dies.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Both sides are right and wrong. The truth is, we are affecting the climate slightly.. but we can't really do anything to not affect it other than stop existing. No amount of going green will change anything in this world in a significant way. Want to save the climate and preserve the earth? Become an evil genius and kill half the planet, cus thats the only way any significant change will happen.

[AlphaWolf24]

Exactly. We could evolve into Kevin Costner in Waterworld.

http://i2.listal.com/image/1509817/600full-waterworld-screenshot.jpg


I don't remember that part??..WTF?


I missed GoJira attacking??:rant

[AlphaWolf24]

In my lifetime -

70' - 80's - The world is going to destroy itself with Nuclear weapons....Reagan is gonna role outta bed and press the Big Red Button....Mad Max here we come...

- Speed Metal is destroying Mankind....AC/DC played backwards makes everyone turn into Zombies.....James Hetfield is the Diablo!!

90's - 00's - Giant Earth Quake's will break off California into the Ocean...Sadaam is going to Bomb us with Nerve Gas...

Ice Cube/2P@c is turning America's youth into mindless "thugs".....don'
t play video games also.


2010's - The world has a fever....we are all doomed....unless we spend 10 Trillion $'s to go "Green"

Ice Cube now stars in Kids Movies.....James Hetfield paints and writes Kids Books....California is still here...Video Games is a Billion $ industry....Saddam never had any weapons....only 2 Zombies.

:confusedshrug:

[tomtucker]

Greenland has been sweating more than a whore in church for a good decade or so now, and things are only going to get worse. At this point, I'm not sure if the trend is even remotely reversible, but any and all actions we as humans can do at this point is worth the attempt.

I don't see some "Day After Tomorrow" ordeal in the near future, but at some point in the coming years, decades - something is bound to give-in, and more than likely, us as a planet are NOT going to be prepared for the consequences. It's human nature to just pass the buck and wait for the worst to happen before we act in response to "counter attack" if you will ... but at that point, no amount of $ or global effort will be enough to set things right.

I'm no scientist ... but if you ask me ... we're all fu*ked.

my favorite fantasy......:eek:

[boozehound]

More people would take this shit serious if they didnt over dramatize it so.

Just makes them sound like alarmist hippies while the world goes on around them.

The world has faced global warming and cooling in far more extreme ways than the human race can cause and even if its much quicker than usual....its shown that the world can take it. It may one day really start to annoy those of us in the wrong places.

but change or die? **** outta here. Animals survived the coming and going of ice ages and times when the world was a lot hotter than global warming is gonna make it in the next 5 generations. Many went extinct but they didnt have coats, fire, AC, and the many other things we have. People have been getting by in Siberia and the North Pole for thousands of years....same of the middle east and the sahara. But climate change moving the extreme spots around over a period of decades(an impossibly fast period of time anyway) is gonna destroy humanity?


Even if a lot of us die(and I doubt it) there are bigger potential threats.
really ignorant point of view. extreme heatwave over the midwest, massive drought destroying most corn and soy production in the us, unseasonal frosts killing all the cherry crop in MI, nah, none of these have an impact on us! We are immune to massive changes in the fundamental ecosystem we are dependent on for food, particularly, and life generally. Funny that you bring up places like the sahara or siberia, where the population density is so low they are basically uninhabited. There is a fundamental difference between small populations eking out a living through pasotralism or H-G lifeways and our modern system, completely detached from our own food production.


What exactly are the bigger potential threats to modern societies continued existence?

Nah, its all good though. Go back to making your cool video highlights while actively opposing attempts to change our incredible alteration of the global carbon cycle or atmospheric composition. Its be one thing if you were just apathetic, but people who actively dismiss anthropogenic climate change are ostriches who have not looked at the data (or past climate change patterns). The science is unequivocal on this folks. Deniers are basically too scared to bother understanding it, or stand to profit from it.

[boozehound]

In my lifetime -

70' - 80's - The world is going to destroy itself with Nuclear weapons....Reagan is gonna role outta bed and press the Big Red Button....Mad Max here we come...

- Speed Metal is destroying Mankind....AC/DC played backwards makes everyone turn into Zombies.....James Hetfield is the Diablo!!

90's - 00's - Giant Earth Quake's will break off California into the Ocean...Sadaam is going to Bomb us with Nerve Gas...

Ice Cube/2P@c is turning America's youth into mindless "thugs".....don'
t play video games also.


2010's - The world has a fever....we are all doomed....unless we spend 10 Trillion $'s to go "Green"

Ice Cube now stars in Kids Movies.....James Hetfield paints and writes Kids Books....California is still here...Video Games is a Billion $ industry....Saddam never had any weapons....only 2 Zombies.

:confusedshrug:
The difference is that those things are all media or politically driven hyperbole. Anthropogenic climate change (which people were talking about back then as well, particularly the climate scientists) is a scientifically validated fact.


If we took the $ we currently give to the oil industry in tax breaks, subsidies, cheap leases on public lands and invested it in renewable development, we would have renewable energy across the US in a very short period (not to mention the economic boost, both long and short term, from the RnD jobs and construction and maintenance jobs). We are falling behind the likes of spain, indonesia china and countless other countries in the development of the next major public technology.

[boozehound]

seriously though...every single year this issue comes up and yet eery single year the ocean level remains nearly the same...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Recent_Sea_Level_Rise.png

^^^ that is centemeters


at this rate, the ocean level will raise less than 20 cms before I die...which means the houses on the coast will still be fine, probably won't even notice the difference at all.
sea level isnt the issue. Talk about a false front. The issue will be complete reworking of modern agriculture and food production, increased tropical storms quanitiy and strength, longer droughts, hotter summers, colder winters, etc.

[-p.tiddy-]

sea level isnt the issue. Talk about a false front. The issue will be complete reworking of modern agriculture and food production, increased tropical storms quanitiy and strength, longer droughts, hotter summers, colder winters, etc.

the temperature is the same deal...

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn11639/dn11639-2_808.jpg



^^^ that is ONE degree

in my life time, the temperature has gone up about .5 degrees...half a degree

I DO think global warming is real and a legit issue, but I can't help but to point out the fact that shit is barely changing at all for the most part.

I mean I know the Water World talks are jokes, but at this pace our great great great great grand kids wouldn't see that much of a difference than what it is at currently...maybe a 2-3 degree raise and I will have been dead for a very long time.

[AlphaWolf24]

The difference is that those things are all media or politically driven hyperbole. Anthropogenic climate change (which people were talking about back then as well, particularly the climate scientists) is a scientifically validated fact.


If we took the $ we currently give to the oil industry in tax breaks, subsidies, cheap leases on public lands and invested it in renewable development, we would have renewable energy across the US in a very short period (not to mention the economic boost, both long and short term, from the RnD jobs and construction and maintenance jobs). We are falling behind the likes of spain, indonesia china and countless other countries in the development of the next major public technology.


and "Global Warming" isn't?.....

Fact: there is not one ounce of proof humans cause Global Warming...

Fact: Climate change is part of the global structure ....with or without Al Gore.

Fact: China builds a coal manufacturing plant every 13 days...and causes more "pollution" then all other countries combined....USA is actually the most regulated and cleanest country.

so getting Fossil Fuel is bad? (from Rocks under the earth's surface)...but destroying the Land to grow corn is good?....how much Corn or "renewable energy" do you think is needed to power the country/world?....How much Land will need to be Farmed?....

as a supplement....yes renewable energy is great....but to power the world?..you are crazy....the world's surface would be a cornfield....what problems would that create?

[boozehound]

and "Global Warming" isn't?.....

Fact: there is not one ounce of proof humans cause Global Warming...

Fact: Climate change is part of the global structure ....with or without Al Gore.

Fact: China builds a coal manufacturing plant every 13 days...and causes more "pollution" then all other countries combined....USA is actually the most regulated and cleanest country.

so getting Fossil Fuel is bad? (from Rocks under the earth's surface)...but destroying the Land to grow corn is good?....how much Corn or "renewable energy" do you think is needed to power the country/world?....How much Land will need to be Farmed?....

as a supplement....yes renewable energy is great....but to power the world?..you are crazy....the world's surface would be a cornfield....what problems would that create?
well, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. There is no doubt that the industrial activities of humans have fundamentally altered the global carbon cycle as well as atmospheric composition. Think of the billions of tons of dead plant carbon sequestered in oil, natural gas, coal (we call it a carbon sink). This carbon is not part of the active carbon cycle. But, once you mine it and burn it, it is. No denying this. Millions of years worth of sequestered carbon released in a geologic instant.

Long term climate change (driven by things like Milankovitch cycles) is a very different beast. Just ask paleoclimatologists what they think. Oh wait, they have been asked. and, again, all the science backs up the view that our activities are causing an unprecedented shift in our climate.


As for corn, there are innumerable sources of renewable energy so I am not sure why you jumped on this one (besides the fact that it is easy to attack). Try looking for an actual estimate of the land area needed to power the entire worlds energy needs with solar (for example) and you will see that it is an incredibly small amount of land space.

[AlphaWolf24]

well, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. There is no doubt that the industrial activities of humans have fundamentally altered the global carbon cycle as well as atmospheric composition. Think of the billions of tons of dead plant carbon sequestered in oil, natural gas, coal (we call it a carbon sink). This carbon is not part of the active carbon cycle. But, once you mine it and burn it, it is. No denying this. Millions of years worth of sequestered carbon released in a geologic instant.

Long term climate change (driven by things like Milankovitch cycles) is a very different beast. Just ask paleoclimatologists what they think. Oh wait, they have been asked. and, again, all the science backs up the view that our activities are causing an unprecedented shift in our climate.


As for corn, there are innumerable sources of renewable energy so I am not sure why you jumped on this one (besides the fact that it is easy to attack). Try looking for an actual estimate of the land area needed to power the entire worlds energy needs with solar (for example) and you will see that it is an incredibly small amount of land space.


I have no clue?...you are talking about building solar panels....what are you going to build the panels out of?....old Pl**Boy magazines??

they would be built from petro based products from machines that ran off of petro based fuel...

Mankind Burns fuel to get where we are today....Live the lifestyle we have....the average person lives better today then the King of England did 400 years ago...

- Food, technology , communication etc...etc.. all at our finger tips (because of Fossil Fuel)....no matter what evergy source we have we will damage the Earth some way...

but it's all to better our way of life.....the only way to get the "atmosheric compostion" back:rolleyes: is to live in a cave somewhere and hunt pheasants.


who is going to sacrifice all we have today... to go back to living like the stone ages?

because no matter what energy source we have.....it's going to have an adverse reaction.

[gigantes]

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn11639/dn11639-2_808.jpg

^^^ that is ONE degree

in my life time, the temperature has gone up about .5 degrees...half a degree

I DO think global warming is real and a legit issue, but I can't help but to point out the fact that shit is barely changing at all for the most part.

I mean I know the Water World talks are jokes, but at this pace our great great great great grand kids wouldn't see that much of a difference than what it is at currently...maybe a 2-3 degree raise and I will have been dead for a very long time.
what you and most of the public don't understand is that it only takes a few degrees shift down to cause an ice age, or a few degrees shift up to make the planet unlivable for 99% of species.

but if you noticed the number that the IPCC and probably most of the science academies keep focusing on, it's the number "two." as in two degrees celcius. science's goal is to prevent the global mean from rising that much, otherwise what? what happens from a two-degree rise? lots of nasty things, including the breakdown of the ability for animals to pollinate crops... and of course the severity of storms and natural disasters only getting worse.

how do you think society is going to look when the crop regions have failed, the currencies have crashed, there is no gas being imported, no repair work being done on crumbling roads, little or no utilities. gonna be sitting pretty or will you maybe, possibly have a little bit of a problem on your hands?

[-p.tiddy-]

what you and most of the public don't understand is that it only takes a few degrees shift down to cause an ice age, or a few degrees shift up to make the planet unlivable for 99% of species.

in the history of this planet it has shifted much more than that without killing 99% of the life...:confusedshrug:

[usa hoops]

Why is it called Greenland in the first place? Didn't it use to be green not long ago? As in, no snow?

[AlphaWolf24]

Why is it called Greenland in the first place? Didn't it use to be green not long ago? As in, no snow?


the man Trolled the Vikings.

[gigantes]

in the history of this planet it has shifted much more than that without killing 99% of the life...:confusedshrug:
for a severe ice age to happen, the temp only has to drop about 5-6 degrees C:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Ice_Age_Temperature.png


on the flip side, probably the last time the planet was 5-6 degrees warmer it was in the very early history of the earth, when the planet was mostly a giant hot soup with very simple organisms. so technically you may be correct, but it wasn't any situation that resembles later history or what we should want to happen... unless of course you enjoy being a single-celled organism or bacterium or something.

prove me wrong, of course. i'm going off the top of my head a little bit on the last one, but am also trying to multitask ATM.

[gigantes]

in the history of this planet it has shifted much more than that without killing 99% of the life...:confusedshrug:
also, if you're indeed curious and not trolling, you should google up for yourself some science articles on why the two-degree rise is such a serious issue.

[-p.tiddy-]

I am sure there are articles that support it not being serious as well...

I just came in here to point out that we really aren't seeing much change RIGHT NOW

in my life time, the temp has gone up about half a degree and the ocean has risen a few cms...that's all

[-p.tiddy-]

Just reading through, don't know much about this stuff at all.. but in response to PrimeTime, the difference between 32 degrees and 33 degrees is ice melting. That's only a one degree difference. So couldn't that be reason enough for alarm on a global scale?

To anyone who can answer that, I'll take my answer off the air.
I don't know, but i do know that we seem to be doing fine currently, and I think that should be taken into consideration here

Greenland just melted?...okay well Florida didn't sink into the ocean or anything, as a matter of fact the ocean level seems to have not moved at all...and that is all I am pointing out



I can see a situation where 20 years from now we are worrying about this same subject yet the conditions will be the exact same as they are right now...that is what we have been doing the past 10 years

[UtahJazzFan88]

I think there is middle ground in the global warming topic, I don't believe in the extremeists like Al Gore, but you certainly can't brush it off and act like it isn't happening either.

I think there needs to be more serious steps to stop this more, but as it gets more of a serious issue, I think people will start to take notice.



Greenland just melted?...okay well Florida didn't sink into the ocean or anything, as a matter of fact the ocean level seems to have not moved at all...and that is all I am pointing out

There's a big difference from an actual earth landmass than an ice sheet.

[KevinNYC]

Greenland just melted?

I never said that and the quote I posted makes clear exactly what is going on.

Parts of the Greenland glacier have melted. The top layer. Parts that have never melted before.

The Greenland Ice is 2 miles Deep. So yes Greenland is still covered with ice. But there's two things to be worried about. The icebergs that keep breaking off Greenland like the giant one in this video (http://science.time.com/2012/07/21/video-giant-glacier-breaks-off-greenland/) are not coming back. This melting will accelerate if the earth gets warmer.


Also Florida is not ground zero in sea level rise. Maryland and Virginia will be. (http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0625/Sea-levels-rising-on-US-East-Coast-much-faster-than-global-average-video) Cape Hatteras to Cape Cod has the fastest sea level rise in the world.


Sea levels are rising much faster along the U.S. East Coast than they are around the globe, putting one of the world's most costly coasts in danger of flooding, government researchers report.

Dr. Josh Willis discusses the connection between oceans and global climate change. Learn why NASA measures greenhouse gases and how we detect ocean levels from space. These are crucial vital signs of the planet and help us to understand just how much humans can impact the climate.
U.S. Geological Survey scientists call the 600-mile (965-kilometer) swath a "hot spot" for climbing sea levels caused by global warming. Along the region, the Atlantic Ocean is rising at an annual rate three times to four times faster than the global average since 1990, according to the study published Sunday in the journal Nature Climate Change.

It's not just a faster rate, but at a faster pace, like a car on a highway "jamming on the accelerator," said the study's lead author, Asbury Sallenger Jr., an oceanographer at the agency. He looked at sea levels starting in 1950, and noticed a change beginning in 1990.

Since then, sea levels have gone up globally about 2 inches (5 centimeters). But in Norfolk, Virginia, where officials are scrambling to fight more frequent flooding, sea level has jumped a total of 4.8 inches (12.19 centimeters), the research showed. For Philadelphia, levels went up 3.7 inches (9.4 centimeters), and in New York City, it was 2.8 inches (7.11 centimeters).....

Computer models long have projected higher levels along parts of the East Coast because of changes in ocean currents from global warming, but this is the first study to show that's already happened.

The important thing to note is

A. they now have detected the sea level rise that was predicted
B. that sea level rise does not occur equally everywhere.

[MMM]

The Solution going green but the status quo is not acceptable as well. Frankly, both options are not sustainable over the medium to long term. What developed nations need to do is scale back their consumption of resources while developing nations need carefully manage the expected increases in their rate of consumption.

[gigantes]

The Solution going green but the status quo is not acceptable as well. Frankly, both options are not sustainable over the medium to long term. What developed nations need to do is scale back their consumption of resources while developing nations need carefully manage the expected increases in their rate of consumption.
and that's why i think we're borked.

individualism, greed, politics as usual, our basic animal natures, the tendency to not care about a problem until it happens to you personally... all of these things conspire to prevent the necessary change. everyone wants to pass the buck and let someone else worry about this, or let it ride for the future. yet that's exactly the response that fails.

i mean, take the IPCC. it was formed over 20 years ago due to the number of high-level scientists and scientific bodies that saw serious issues with the current greenhouse gas thing. yet so far, according to the scientific consensus and data collected, the problem is only spinning faster and faster out of control. so what have govts done as a response, both in general and as a response to the various international meetings on the matter, kyoto and copenhagen and so forth? virtually NOTHING, that's what.

twenty years of science being pretty damn sure on a pretty damn serious issue, and earths nations have done little more than make some half-hearted measures to cut emissions and so forth by some later date, like 2020 or something.

duh... talk about "fail." and that's why we're borked IMO.

[boozehound]

I am sure there are articles that support it not being serious as well...

I just came in here to point out that we really aren't seeing much change RIGHT NOW

in my life time, the temp has gone up about half a degree and the ocean has risen a few cms...that's all
You are sure huh? How about you find a single peer reviewed article to that effect?

In the meantime, some more reading for our lovely membership. Remember ISH =#1!

Chronic 2000-04 Drought, Worst in 800 Years, May Be the 'New Normal' (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120729142137.htm)

[Godzuki]

what we should do is not try in vain to prevent something thats inevitable and hurts our economy to address, rather change the way we build our structures. it just seems like the change needed to be a green nation in relation to how little it would deter global warming especially when most other countries don't have to go green either and will pollute regardless, seems a poor strategy. we'd probably be lucky to even shave a year or years off by spending billions on going green. its inevitable, lets just deal with the assumption its going to happen. maybe build every house not on some plateau on stilts, or water proof the bases. i know they're doing something similar with houses in New Orleans. and with how they're predicting a rise in natural catastrophe's like hurricanes, tsunami's, etc. it would be a much more practical solution to improve our structures.

PS we could also use underground electricity wiring like Germany where their power doesn't get KO'd so often

[bagelred]

Pffffffff..........I don't need your fancy "scientists". We all know who will solve this crisis.

Starts with a J. Ends with an S. Fill it in with an Esu. Da man. :rockon:

[-p.tiddy-]

You are sure huh? How about you find a single peer reviewed article to that effect?

In the meantime, some more reading for our lovely membership. Remember ISH =#1!

Chronic 2000-04 Drought, Worst in 800 Years, May Be the 'New Normal' (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120729142137.htm)
Okay that is fair enough, and some would blame storms like Katrina on Global Warming as well...

I guess what I was getting at is that we are still alive at the present moment, we aren't seeing Cali sink into the ocean or anything...the end of the world isn't here...yet

[Kblaze8855]

really ignorant point of view. extreme heatwave over the midwest, massive drought destroying most corn and soy production in the us, unseasonal frosts killing all the cherry crop in MI, nah, none of these have an impact on us!

You show me these things have not happened for all of human history ill care.


We are immune to massive changes in the fundamental ecosystem we are dependent on for food, particularly, and life generally. Funny that you bring up places like the sahara or siberia, where the population density is so low they are basically uninhabited.

Yes...we are largely immune. Humanity is beyond the ability of anything short of disease, asteriods, and our own weapons to destroy. Perhaps a super massive volcano can spew enough gases into the air to do the job?

Weather...will not.

Humans have proven capable of adapting to everything from 50 below to 120 degrees in the summer and have millions in places where both happen on a regular basis.

All the doom talk is the same as its always been. An easily manipulated few who will extend the 3000 thousand year streak of people like me being right and doom sayers looking like idiots.



There is a fundamental difference between small populations eking out a living through pasotralism or H-G lifeways and our modern system, completely detached from our own food production.


What exactly are the bigger potential threats to modern societies continued existence?

Nah, its all good though. Go back to making your cool video highlights while actively opposing attempts to change our incredible alteration of the global carbon cycle or atmospheric composition. Its be one thing if you were just apathetic, but people who actively dismiss anthropogenic climate change are ostriches who have not looked at the data (or past climate change patterns). The science is unequivocal on this folks. Deniers are basically too scared to bother understanding it, or stand to profit from it.


Ive probably looked into it more than most. I look into everything. I try to know for knowings sake. I might be reading about the war of 1812, and flip it to how the King of Mali once spent so much gold on a trip to Mecca he destroyed their economy for years, or what Star Trek actors did to get into the business. I am obsessive about everything that gets my attention for a moment until I know all I can or something more interesting comes along.

Have I looked into it enough to call myself an expert even if the standard is everyday joes who just have an interest in the subject?

No.

But I dont need to.

You know why?

Regardless of all the BS being yelled by people trying to make a big deal of it nothing will be done. humanity is NOT going to change. More and more of us are coming along needing more and more and more and the way we live has gone too far to turn around or even slow down in a major way.

And you know whats going to happen long term?

We will still be here...just living in a slightly different way.

Humanity is a hell of a lot more ****ed when the oil finally runs out than anything to do with the weather. It could go ice age it could go worldwide Libya...humanity will endure.

Just as it always has while people like you stressed the need for change that never happens and ends up not having been needed.

No matter what you say or think...the world is NOT going to change and any attempt would be offset by the huge increase in the needs of the population.

We are on the tracks moving top speed and there are no brakes.

All the rest is just talk. Your opinion is going to do as much to change things as human sacrifice did to make god give people rain.

Some things truly are beyond the ability of anyone to change.

This is one.

**** it. Cavemen got by during the ice age.....my great great great grandkids will not be done in by a shorter crop season or more droughts.

Its life. We have lived in a brief slice of the history of the planet and it has gone through extremes nobody alive has seen and nobody will see for thousands of years. Its endured.

Animals have endured. People..have endured.

And short of cockroaches we are the most capable creatures the Earth has spawned to resist the power of nature.

Nature will win in the end. Be it when the sun goes nova, or an asteriod, or volcanic gasses, or the earthquakes sure to result when the continents get close enough together to start banging around forming new mountian ranges.

Something...will take us out.

It wont be global warming.

We are too widespread, too advanced, much tougher than people like you give us credit for, and it will take too long to not adjust on the fly.

You are just version 900 of "We gotta change or die". There have been version of you predicting the end every 20 years for all time.

Im not saying humanity cant end.

Im saying.....when a guy says a picture of greenland melting is the most frightening thing you will ever see....hes being an overdramitic douche who is either an idiot or lying.

I have real shit going on. Real day to day troubles. The kind of person who makes a big deal of ice not doing what we would like is just living in a fantasy world. Which is why most people ignore them and why all your talk wont do a gotdman thing.

You caring and me not caring will result in the same thing....

Nothing happening to turn the ship around and humanity sailing into the future doing what it must to survive as its done from ice age to now.

[AlphaWolf24]

You show me these things have not happened for all of human history ill care.



Yes...we are largely immune. Humanity is beyond the ability of anything short of disease, asteriods, and our own weapons to destroy. Perhaps a super massive volcano can spew enough gases into the air to do the job?

Weather...will not.

Humans have proven capable of adapting to everything from 50 below to 120 degrees in the summer and have millions in places where both happen on a regular basis.

All the doom talk is the same as its always been. An easily manipulated few who will extend the 3000 thousand year streak of people like me being right and doom sayers looking like idiots.



Ive probably looked into it more than most. I look into everything. I try to know for knowings sake. I might be reading about the war of 1812, and flip it to how the King of Mali once spent so much gold on a trip to Mecca he destroyed their economy for years, or what Star Trek actors did to get into the business. I am obsessive about everything that gets my attention for a moment until I know all I can or something more interesting comes along.

Have I looked into it enough to call myself an expert even if the standard is everyday joes who just have an interest in the subject?

No.

But I dont need to.

You know why?

Regardless of all the BS being yelled by people trying to make a big deal of it nothing will be done. humanity is NOT going to change. More and more of us are coming along needing more and more and more and the way we live has gone too far to turn around or even slow down in a major way.

And you know whats going to happen long term?

We will still be here...just living in a slightly different way.

Humanity is a hell of a lot more ****ed when the oil finally runs out than anything to do with the weather. It could go ice age it could go worldwide Libya...humanity will endure.

Just as it always has while people like you stressed the need for change that never happens and ends up not having been needed.

No matter what you say or think...the world is NOT going to change and any attempt would be offset by the huge increase in the needs of the population.

We are on the tracks moving top speed and there are no brakes.

All the rest is just talk. Your opinion is going to do as much to change things as human sacrifice did to make god give people rain.

Some things truly are beyond the ability of anyone to change.

This is one.

**** it. Cavemen got by during the ice age.....my great great great grandkids will not be done in by a shorter crop season or more droughts.

Its life. We have lived in a brief slice of the history of the planet and it has gone through extremes nobody alive has seen and nobody will see for thousands of years. Its endured.

Animals have endured. People..have endured.

And short of cockroaches we are the most capable creatures the Earth has spawned to resist the power of nature.

Nature will win in the end. Be it when the sun goes nova, or an asteriod, or volcanic gasses, or the earthquakes sure to result when the continents get close enough together to start banging around forming new mountian ranges.

Something...will take us out.

It wont be global warming.

We are too widespread, too advanced, much tougher than people like you give us credit for, and it will take too long to not adjust on the fly.

You are just version 900 of "We gotta change or die". There have been version of you predicting the end every 20 years for all time.

Im not saying humanity cant end.

Im saying.....when a guy says a picture of greenland melting is the most frightening thing you will ever see....hes being an overdramitic douche who is either an idiot or lying.

I have real shit going on. Real day to day troubles. The kind of person who makes a big deal of ice not doing what we would like is just living in a fantasy world. Which is why most people ignore them and why all your talk wont do a gotdman thing.

You caring and me not caring will result in the same thing....

Nothing happening to turn the ship around and humanity sailing into the future doing what it must to survive as its done from ice age to now.


Amazing!....


and as a was reading this.....for some reason I was picturing it in this manner in his style voice >>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFXIEwzg7Dg


oh yeah..





ether

[-p.tiddy-]

**** it. Cavemen got by during the ice age.....my great great great grandkids will not be done in by a shorter crop season or more droughts.

yeah this is another thing that I have mentioned in here in here in the past, and it sounds kind of cold, but to me the people that this issue will REALLY affect are the people that will be living here 200 or so years from now...like 6-7 generations away from me.

My Great-Great-Great-Great-Great-Great Grandchildren

and those are grandkids that I will never meet, will likely never know who the hell I was, and they will have about 1/100th of my DNA by that time...in short, they are people I am not sure I should be worried about saving right now...it sounds mean I suppose, but this is more their battle to fight, not mine...and they will have much better tech to fight it with than I do by recycling plastic...

[KevinNYC]

Okay that is fair enough, and some would blame storms like Katrina on Global Warming as well...

I guess what I was getting at is that we are still alive at the present moment, we aren't seeing Cali sink into the ocean or anything...the end of the world isn't here...yet

Again it's not place like California that are in earliest danger. It's small strips of land with water on two sides, like parts of Maryland and Virginia and any "Cape" on the East Coast.


Also, you can't pin any single weather event on Global Warming, but just this month scientists have said the number of extreme weather events we have been have been having is definitely tied to Global Warming. (http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0710/Does-climate-change-increase-the-odds-of-extreme-weather-events-video)


Attribution is possible, they said, as long as it is framed in terms of probability, rather than certainty. So instead of saying climate change caused a heat wave, researchers could gauge how much more or less likely the heat wave was in a world where the climate is changing.

For example, both Texas and England felt the warming effects of the La Nina weather-making pattern but climate change pushed these influences to extremes, Stott said.....

Adding climate change to La Nina makes a Texas heat wave 20 times more likely than it would have been 50 years ago, said Peter Stott of the Met Office. By some measures, 2011 was the warmest, driest growing season in the Texas record, Stott said.

Both the US and Russia (http://rt.com/business/news/grain-prices-hike-crisis-464/)are experiencing a severe drought right now.

[Kblaze8855]

Damn Kblaze, I don't think even the craziest people are saying it's going to be some end of the world, mass extinction type shit.


Article in the first post says its clear we must change or die and they call the picture of melting ice the most frightening image ever....

And they seem serious.

If you wanna reduce emissions...fine. Im all for it. Do what you can do.

Dont tell me humanity is gonna be wiped out by this bullshit.

And too many people try to do it. Its not as big a threat as alarmists try to make it out to be but they know if they dont take it to the extreme people wont pay attention.

You could call it a noble cause...ends justifies the means situation perhaps.

I call it making a solar flare into a supernova.


We have people calling for billions to be spent "saving" a future that is gonna come no matter what when kids of today are dying worldwide out of a lack of food when Americans throw away more than most people on earth eat.

But im to worry about some gotdamn ice and its possible gradual impact on the next 900 years?

I have kids wanting to go to disneyworld, a grandma who is 91 and wants all the time she can get with her family, and a meeting friday to see if I open a bar and grill.

**** 2881.

I might not see 2013. And the people of 2881 will have issues to deal with well beyond my understanding.

Our life is less than a speck and im not gonna sit around worried about some other speck 40 billion specks from now.

That speck will get by or it wont.

Just like everything else.

The Earth....it will be fine. People eventually will be ****ed.

But not because of anything we can prevent right now.

So why not just send a sack of rice to India and help someone who doesnt have the luxury of being worried about his carbon footprint?

This is such a first world issue. And thats why it cant be stopped. The only people with time/resources to care or even research it are too few for the poor masses to worry about. The billions are going the direction they are gonna go. They arent gonna get a cleaner car or stop using the little bit of bugspray they can get because the can ****s the ozone layer. They are lucky to have a car at all and bugspray to them prevents malaria not annoying bumps.

The half a percent of earth aware of/concerned about global warming arent gonna do shit because everyone else is too busy trying to survive to care.

[gigantes]

Damn Kblaze, I don't think even the craziest people are saying it's going to be some end of the world, mass extinction type shit.
we're already living in a mass extinction- it's called the holocene extinction, and appears to average 100,000+ species extinctions per year.

so, yea... call me crazy, but i can only see it getting worse at this rate.

even now, ocean acidification due to excess carbon dissolved in the water is causing the global breakdown of coral reefs... a major ecosystem, and heavily connected with edible fish populations.

so with fish populations and crop regions dying out, what exactly are you planning to eat in a few years? chocolate-covered ants?