Pretend the NBA started in 2000, who are the top 10 players of all-time now?

[ripthekik]

Just for fun.

My list:

1.Shaq
2.Kobe
3. Duncan
4. Garnett
5. Lebron
6. Dirk
7. Dwyane Wade
8. Steve Nash
9. Dwight Howard
10. Jason Kidd

1/2 Shaq and Kobe were definitely very very close for me. Another day and I would probably come up with a different result.

4/5 Lebron and Garnett are also extremely close, they both have 1 ring. But I gave it to KG because he was playing at an all-star level every single year since 2000, while lebron 2005. Garnett also has 9

[AK47DR91]

1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Duncan
4. LeBron
5. Garnett
6. Dirk
7. Nash
8. Howard
9. Wade
10. Ben Wallace

HM: Pierce, Kidd, McGrady, Allen.

[Myth]

1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Duncan
4. LeBron
5. Garnett
6. Dirk
7. Nash
8. Howard
9. Wade
10. Ben Wallace

HM: Pierce, Kidd, McGrady, Allen.

Big Ben over Kidd? Ben was a better defender, but Kidd was still a great defender. Meanwhile, on offense Ben couldn't do shit while Kidd was a stud.

OPs list looks pretty accurate.

**Waits for "Pretend NBA started in 2010" thread**

[WockaVodka]

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Garnett
6. Nowitzki
7. Nash
8. Wade
9. Kidd
10. Pierce

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaq's '92-'99 years go away. Duncan's '99 run goes away. So Kobe would be #1.

[DaSeba5]

I can't argue with your list, OP. It's accurate.

[ripthekik]

Shaq's '92-'99 years go away. Duncan's '99 run goes away. So Kobe would be #1.
Shaq would still have the most dominant 3 peat run in history though.
Duncan is still a 3x champion even without '99.

[Myth]

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Garnett
6. Nowitzki
7. Nash
8. Wade
9. Kidd
10. Pierce

Ooh, I wasn't thinking about the case of Duncan over Shaq, but there is certainly a case after removing 7-8 years of Shaq's career, although that also removes a chip from Duncan's collection.

[Heavincent]

1. Kobe
2. Shaq
3. Duncan
4. Lebron
5. KG
6. Dirk
7. Kidd
8. Nash
9. Iverson
10. Allen

[b1imtf]

1. Scal
Rest doesn't matter

[DaSeba5]

1. Scal
Rest doesn't matter

:lol

[AK47DR91]

Shaq would still have the most dominant 3 peat run in history though.
Duncan is still a 3x champion even without '99.
And back-to-back MVPs for Duncan.

The Shaq vs Kobe vs Duncan debate is actually very close if you only go by 2000-10.

A couple of MVP caliber seasons for Kobe then I can seriously say all three guys are nearly identical for overall. Shaq's '92-'99 and Duncan's two seasons in the late 90's still have them slightly over Kobe at the moment.

[DaSeba5]

And back-to-back MVPs for Duncan.

The Shaq vs Kobe vs Duncan debate is actually very close if you only go by 2000-10.

A couple of MVP caliber seasons for Kobe then I can seriously say all three guys are nearly identical for overall. Shaq's '92-'99 and Duncan's two seasons in the late 90's still have them slightly over Kobe at the moment.

That's how I see it.

[Myth]

The Shaq vs Kobe vs Duncan debate is actually very close if you only go by 2000-10.


I'm thinking we are looking at 2000-12.

[ripthekik]

And back-to-back MVPs for Duncan.

The Shaq vs Kobe vs Duncan debate is actually very close if you only go by 2000-10.

A couple of MVP caliber seasons for Kobe then I can seriously say all three guys are nearly identical for overall. Shaq's '92-'99 and Duncan's two seasons in the late 90's still have them slightly over Kobe at the moment.
Definitely.

Kobe's resume will look very impressive having won 5 rings out of 12 seasons.
Shaq has his impressive 3 peat run.
Duncan 3x champion every other year.

[blablabla]

Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Lebron
Garnett
Dirk
Wade
Nash
AI
Kidd

[AK47DR91]

I'm thinking we are looking at 2000-12.
Still very close.

Kobe has the longevity, 5 titles, 2 F-MVP, 1 MVP.
Shaq has the 3-peat, 3 F-MVP, 4 titles, 1 MVP.
Duncan has the 3 titles, 2 F-MVP, 2 MVPs.

[Freedom Kid7]

Ooh, I wasn't thinking about the case of Duncan over Shaq, but there is certainly a case after removing 7-8 years of Shaq's career, although that also removes a chip from Duncan's collection.
I feel like you can make a case either way.
In Shaq's case: he destroyed the league in 2000, and in that 3 peat he was the equivalent of an obese wrecking ball. He attacked and went for the basket, and his defenders were helpless because he was so big and agile. His offensive game was much better than Duncan and his best season was better than Duncan's best.
In Duncan's case: he had an incredible year in 2003 and his playoffs were great (25/15/5). His offensive game was great, but not as good as Shaq's. He was a better defender, teammate and shooter than Shaq (shooting =/= fg%, it means ft% and how good of a jumper you have in this scenario). He was also a bit more consistent and at the moment seems to be aging well (he still has quality minutes, unlike Shaq at the end of his career, though that can change in Duncan's last season).

I feel I have to give the edge to Shaq though. It hurts as a guy who has hated the Lakers since the Kobe-Shaq days, but Shaq destroyed teams and couldn't be stopped. He did have some shortcomings (freethrows, ego), but his game was soulcrushing. Duncan's great as well though. Sooooo

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. LeBron
5. Garnett
6. Dirk
7. Kidd
8. Pierce
9. Allen
10. Nash

[DaSeba5]

Is there a reason why some people don't put Wade in the top 10?

[Freedom Kid7]

Is there a reason why some people don't put Wade in the top 10?
I dislike Wade and do not have him in my top 10. His flopping and how the refs cater to him will always rub me the wrong way. In a non-biased standpoint, his peak is very short and he always he can get easily injured. His jumpshot can be shaky from time to time. Plus, I feel people overrate him because when he got the Finals MVP back in '06, he still got to work with Shaq when he had some gas left.

[blablabla]

I dislike Wade and do not have him in my top 10. His flopping and how the refs cater to him will always rub me the wrong way. In a non-biased standpoint, his peak is very short and he always he can get easily injured. His jumpshot can be shaky from time to time. Plus, I feel people overrate him because when he got the Finals MVP back in '06, he still got to work with Shaq when he had some gas left.
he's at least better than ray allen

[DaSeba5]

I dislike Wade and do not have him in my top 10. His flopping and how the refs cater to him will always rub me the wrong way. In a non-biased standpoint, his peak is very short and he always he can get easily injured. His jumpshot can be shaky from time to time. Plus, I feel people overrate him because when he got the Finals MVP back in '06, he still got to work with Shaq when he had some gas left.

At least you answered in a fair way :cheers:

However, I'd replace Allen with Wade on your list.

[StateOfMind12]

1. Kobe
2. Duncan
3. Shaq
4. Lebron
5. Garnett
6. Dirk
7. Nash
8. Wade
9. Pierce
10. Kidd


Is there a reason why some people don't put Wade in the top 10?
Doesn't have a lot of dominant years due to injury and what not.

[Freedom Kid7]

At least you answered in a fair way :cheers:

However, I'd replace Allen with Wade on your list.
Nothing wrong with that at all :cheers: . In respect for Wade though, his 08-09 season was very, very impressive. And while it may be a blessing and curse at the same time, Wade's driving game is pretty good as well.

[DaSeba5]

Doesn't have a lot of dominant years due to injury and what not.

I can agree with that. Unfortunately, we wasted a lot of his good years. Although we eventually made up for it by getting Bosh and LeBron.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I feel like you can make a case either way.
In Shaq's case: he destroyed the league in 2000, and in that 3 peat he was the equivalent of an obese wrecking ball. He attacked and went for the basket, and his defenders were helpless because he was so big and agile. His offensive game was much better than Duncan and his best season was better than Duncan's best.
In Duncan's case: he had an incredible year in 2003 and his playoffs were great (25/15/5). His offensive game was great, but not as good as Shaq's. He was a better defender, teammate and shooter than Shaq (shooting =/= fg%, it means ft% and how good of a jumper you have in this scenario). He was also a bit more consistent and at the moment seems to be aging well (he still has quality minutes, unlike Shaq at the end of his career, though that can change in Duncan's last season).

I feel I have to give the edge to Shaq though. It hurts as a guy who has hated the Lakers since the Kobe-Shaq days, but Shaq destroyed teams and couldn't be stopped. He did have some shortcomings (freethrows, ego), but his game was soulcrushing. Duncan's great as well though. Sooooo

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. LeBron
5. Garnett
6. Dirk
7. Kidd
8. Pierce
9. Allen
10. Nash
C'mon now, Wade is CLEARLY better than them atleast

[Nash]

lol, Wade is one of our true superstars of the last 10 years.

Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
Lebron
Garnett
Wade
Nash
Dirk

Rest have a long way to go.

[DaSeba5]

Nothing wrong with that at all :cheers: . In respect for Wade though, his 08-09 season was very, very impressive. And while it may be a blessing and curse at the same time, Wade's driving game is pretty good as well.

He needs to get his jumpshot back. He can't rely on athleticism alone anymore. His style of game is a killer on the body.

He's still a super star and the best player we've ever had. He has to be in the top 10. People used to put him with Kobe and LeBron all of the time.

[L.Kizzle]

Anyone remeber that dude with cornrows? He's was pretty good.

[Freedom Kid7]

He needs to get his jumpshot back. He can't rely on athleticism alone anymore. His style of game is a killer on the body.

He's still a super star and the best player we've ever had. He has to be in the top 10. People used to put him with Kobe and LeBron all of the time.
Being a Rose fan, I know that feel
:cry: . Out of curiousity, would you put Alonzo as one of the best players you've ever had?

[DaSeba5]

Being a Rose fan, I know that feel
:cry: . Out of curiousity, would you put Alonzo as one of the best players you've ever had?

Yea I don't see how I couldn't. Zo is my 3rd favorite player after Wade and Allen. The best players we've had are Wade, LeBron, Bosh, Shaq, Hardaway, and Zo.


As for Rose, I hope he doesn't have a similar career to Wade in terms of injuries.

[Freedom Kid7]

Yea I don't see how I couldn't. Zo is my 3rd favorite player after Wade and Allen. The best players we've had are Wade, LeBron, Bosh, Shaq, Hardaway, and Zo.


As for Rose, I hope he doesn't have a similar career to Wade in terms of injuries.
I'm hoping that Rose recovers in a way Chris Paul did, but you never know. I just wish Thibs could find out an offensive scheme that doesn't rely on Rose so heavily, but Rose does need to find his jumper again.
I'll always think of Hardaway as part of Run TMC.

[DaSeba5]

I'm hoping that Rose recovers in a way Chris Paul did, but you never know. I just wish Thibs could find out an offensive scheme that doesn't rely on Rose so heavily, but Rose does need to find his jumper again.
I'll always think of Hardaway as part of Run TMC.

I think Thibs works his starters too much. They seem to try a little too hard to get the first seed.

Boston and Miami are always fresh for the playoffs it seems.

[Deuce Bigalow]

2000-2012

Kobe - 5 Titles, 2 FMVP, 1 MVP, 13 All-Star Teams, 10 All-NBA First Team (13 Total All-NBA Teams), 9 All-Defensive First team (12 Total All-Defensive teams), 2 Scoring titles, 4 All-Star game MVPs

Shaq - 4 Titles, 3 FMVP, 1 MVP, 9 All-Star Teams, 7 All-NBA First Team (8 Total All_NBA Teams), 3 All-Defensive Third Team, 1 Scoring Title, 3 All-Star Game MVPs

Duncan - 3 Titles, 2 FMVP, 2 MVPs, 12 All-Star Teams, 8 All-NBA Fisrt Teams (12 Total All_NBA Teams), 7 All-Defensive First teams (11 Total All-Defensive Teams), 1 All-Star Game MVP

[BabyBull]

2000-2012

Kobe - 5 Titles, 2 FMVP, 1 MVP, 13 All-Star Teams, 10 All-NBA First Team (13 Total All-NBA Teams), 9 All-Defensive First team (12 Total All-Defensive teams), 2 Scoring titles, 4 All-Star game MVPs

Shaq - 4 Titles, 3 FMVP, 1 MVP, 9 All-Star Teams, 7 All-NBA First Team (8 Total All_NBA Teams), 3 All-Defensive Third Team, 1 Scoring Title, 3 All-Star Game MVPs

Duncan - 3 Titles, 2 FMVP, 2 MVPs, 12 All-Star Teams, 8 All-NBA Fisrt Teams (12 Total All_NBA Teams), 7 All-Defensive First teams (11 Total All-Defensive Teams), 1 All-Star Game MVP
This, and Shaq would be GOAT imo.

[RaininTwos]

If you don't have Kobe as your number one, kill yourself.

[General]

If you don't have Kobe as your number one, kill yourself.
This. Threads like these reveal who the Kobe haters are.

[Ne 1]

Still very close.

Kobe has the longevity, 5 titles, 2 F-MVP, 1 MVP.
Shaq has the 3-peat, 3 F-MVP, 4 titles, 1 MVP.
Duncan has the 3 titles, 2 F-MVP, 2 MVPs.

Shaq from 2000-2002 >>Kobe/Duncan, but taking the 2000-2012 into perspective, I don't think Shaq can match Kobe and Duncan. After winning a ring with Wade, Shaq was irrelevant, while Duncan and Kobe continued playing at an elite level.

Then again, with Shaq's absolute dominance during the Lakers 3-peat, there's nothing ill to say if one wants to consider Shaq the greatest player since 2000. He was just that good during the aforementioned period.

In terms of prime and dominance, I think only Wilt and maybe Kareem have a case against Shaq.

Longevity and consistency, Kobe and Duncan get the nod but Shaq has a far superior peak then both. So it's a murky question of pure, outright dominance vs longevity.

[BabyBull]

This. Threads like these reveal who the Kobe haters are.
Im a big Kobe fan, but Shaq's prime was as dominant as Jordan's.

Its just as simple as that. I wouldn't mind if somebody put Kobe as the 2000's GOAT though, he has the resume for it.

[DaSeba5]

This. Threads like these reveal who the Kobe haters are.

Not really. A lot of people here gave fair opinions.

[kenny817]

This. Threads like these reveal who the Kobe haters are.

Threads like these reveal who the Kobe dick riders are

[Tenchi Ryu]

A.I on NOBODIES list? NOBODIES?

[BabyBull]

A.I on NOBODIES list? NOBODIES?
how ?

he ended up out of the league in 2010 and didn't manage to win anything before that. His lack of longevity kills him.

[KissMySwag]

1.Kobe
2.Duncan
3.Shaq
4.Garnett
5.LeBron
6.Dirk
7.Nash
8.Wade
9.Iverson
10.Kidd

Editied for honorable mentions.
HM- Dwight,Pierce,Allen,Ben Wallace, Vince Carter, Melo.

[lilgodfather1]

The top 3 would be retarded close if it was 2000-2010, but I personally think Kobe's longevity in the last 2 years is what puts him at 1. He's had good statistical seasons the last two, and unlike Shaq we are not taking away half of Kobe's top 10 seasons.

Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
LeBron
KG
Dirk
Nash
Kidd
Wade
Wallace

JMO of course, but I lean towards Wallace at 10 over Dwight because Ben was a better defender, and anchored a team that went to the ECF multiple times (while winning DPOY 4 times).

It's pretty hard to put Kidd above Nash imo because of the MVP awards. Wade has had a good career thus far. In 5 years the list might look substantially different, but that's how I have it for now.

[lbj23clutch]

LeBron>KG


3 MVP's to 1.


1 final's MVP to 0


1 ring as MAN to 0


Better peak already.


More successful in the playoffs, KG spent over half of his career on 1st and 2nd round exits.



Only edge KG has is longevity and a DPOY.

[BabyBull]

1.Kobe
2.Duncan
3.Shaq
4.Garnett
5.LeBron
6.Dirk
7.Nash
8.Wade
9.Iverson
10.Kidd

Editied for honorable mentions.
HM- Dwight,Pierce,Allen,Ben Wallace, Vince Carter, Melo.Garnett over LeBron ?

[StateOfMind12]

More successful in the playoffs, KG spent over half of his career on 1st and 2nd round exits.
.
Truth be told, it really isn't KG's fault that he constantly had 1st round exits.

His team was very mediocre compared to the rest of the teams out West and he also played in very tough competition out West. KG has never lost a playoff series when he was expected to win or in other words as the favorite. Every time KG was expected to win a playoff series, he usually came up.

I agree with you that Lebron should be ahead of KG but not for this very reason.

[KissMySwag]

Garnett over LeBron ?
Yeah it was a tough one I just went with Garnett cause of the few extra seasons he has on LeBron, I can completely understand any ones case for LeBron over Garnett though.

[Deuce Bigalow]

LeBron>KG

1 final's MVP to 0

1 ring as MAN to 0

KG was the man on the '08 Celtics, and was the best player in the Finals even though he did not win FMVP

[BabyBull]

Yeah it was a tough one I just went with Garnett cause of the few extra seasons he has on LeBron, I can completely understand any ones case for LeBron over Garnett though.
Meh, it doesn't really bother me but I should let you know that everybody only has 12 years to work with on their resume. There is no longevity cases for anyone in this argument.

Just 2000-2012.

[StateOfMind12]

KG was the man on the '08 Celtics, and was the best player in the Finals even though he did not win FMVP
I forgot to address this as well in his post. I love Paul Pierce and he is one of my favorite players ever but Kevin Garnett was without a doubt the best player on that '08 Celtics team. Then again I'm also a huge KG fan, lol.

[Round Mound]

1-Shaq
2-Lebron
3-Duncan
4-Garnett
5-Bryant-Dirk
6-Dirk-Bryant
7-Wade
8-Nash
9-Iverson
10-Kidd

[Ne 1]

KG was the man on the '08 Celtics, and was the best player in the Finals even though he did not win FMVP

Yep. This is another example of why FMVP is a pretty useless award.

It didn't even exist until 1969, had it Bill Russell would have more than anyone.

Kareem was flat out robbed of the 1980's FMVP in favor of a popular, charismatic teammate and we are to act as if the award is legit? Paul Pierce, Tony Parker, Cedric Maxell, Joe Dumars, and Chauncey Billups all have FMVP's. Even John freaking Starks came within one shot of winning a FMVP.

[CAstill]

[QUOTE=ripthekik]Just for fun.

My list:

1.Shaq
2.Kobe
3. Duncan
4. Garnett
5. Lebron
6. Dirk
7. Dwyane Wade
8. Steve Nash
9. Dwight Howard
10. Jason Kidd

1/2 Shaq and Kobe were definitely very very close for me. Another day and I would probably come up with a different result.

4/5 Lebron and Garnett are also extremely close, they both have 1 ring. But I gave it to KG because he was playing at an all-star level every single year since 2000, while lebron 2005. Garnett also has 9

[BabyBull]

1-Shaq
2-Lebron
3-Duncan
4-Garnett
5-Bryant-Dirk
6-Dirk-Bryant
7-Wade
8-Nash
9-Iverson
10-KiddThis is pretty hilarious.

Nice one.

[ripthekik]

If you don't have Kobe as your number one, kill yourself.
Baby, baby, baby ohhhh

[ripthekik]

Like my first post said, I would be happy to pick Kobe any other day of the week. He has been playing at a high level from 2000 til 2012. It would be perfectly fine if you put him at #1, especially since he has the most rings during this time.

As for Iverson, he's one of my favorite players, but I wouldn't be able to stick him on the list without getting ridiculed. Other than 2001, he still played at a high level for a few more seasons, but never had any success in the playoffs. Hard to put him up there.

[LebronsHeadband]

1-Shaq
2-Lebron
3-Duncan
4-Garnett
5-Bryant-Dirk
6-Dirk-Bryant
7-Wade
8-Nash
9-Iverson
10-Kidd

Kobe at 5/6? :biggums: Have some respect.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Anyone who had Kobe ahead of Duncan is delusional.
:facepalm

[dyna]

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. KG
6. Dirk
7. Kidd
8. Nash
9. Pierce
10. Iverson

[ripthekik]

Anyone who had Kobe ahead of Duncan is delusional.
:facepalm
Explain yourself then. Why, in your opinion, does Duncan rank 100% over Kobe?

[SilkkTheShocker]

No argument for KG over Lebron. None.

[ripthekik]

No argument for KG over Lebron. None.
Kevin Garnett

NBA Champion (2008)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2004)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2008)
14

[Story Up]

Kobe has been on another level then Duncan since 08'. He is easily #1 since 2000. Shaw has been irrelevant for almost 6 years. Wtf, Kobe gets disrespected so fukkin much.

Kobe
Duncan
shaq
James
Garnett
Dirk
Wade
Iverson
Kidd
Nash

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Since 2000 (erasing all achievements prior)

Kobe
TD
Lebron
Shaq
KG
Dirk
Wade
Nash
Kidd
Pierce

[miles berg]

Duncan or Shaq, can't go wrong either way.