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franchize
07-30-2012, 11:49 AM
As the season slowly approaches and teams start to round out their roster, it lead me to wonder where we stand in the Eastern Conference. I just wanted to know your opinions. I think we'll end up with the 5th seed with the standings as follows:

Heat- Reigning champs who got over the hump mentally. I think they come in focused, rejuvenated and are the clear cut favorite to win the east

Celtics- Yes, they lost Ray Allen. However, he was gradually getting phased out and they brought back KG and Bass. Plus, they got Jason Terry who is like fireworks off the bench. The brought in Courtney Lee who's a pretty good defender and Avery Bradley will be returning from injury. Not to mention, Jeff Green and Wilcox will be returning from heart ailments. I think they actually will be better than last year's team.

Nets- I know they're newly constructed. However, I think they were brilliantly put together. They, along with the Lakers, have arguably the most complete starting lineup in the NBA. I think that, coupled with Avery's coaching, will get them the 3rd seed. I think they may be an early out this year because Humphries and Lopez are poor defenders but regular season wise, I think they will be as advertised.

Pacers- They've become the new Hawks. I think they will finish just above us in the regular season standings but I think we'll meet and beat them in the playoffs. They just seem like a really good reular season team. I am impressed by their newly acquired depth. I didn't like them losing Collison, but they added Mahinmi and got Green and Augustin through free agency. I also see Lance Stephenson making strides this year after having a very impressive summer league playing both on and off the ball.

Knicks- I think we will have a few bumps in the road early on just because, once again, we have so many new faces. However, I see us making a strong surge after the allstar break and really gaining momentum going into the playoffs. I have us meeting the Pacers in a rough 4 vs 5 battle that will exude nostalgia for us long time Knicks fans. I see us pulling through however simply because we have stars and they don't. Come playoff time, that's what you need. Guys to take over games. I think Felton will have a solid year. Solid enough to make people say Jeremy who? I think it will be just what the doctor ordered. I think the keys to the season will be a.) Can Woodson maximize our talent and find a way for our starting lineup to coexist b.)How much can we get from the senior citizens we brought in this offseason.

76ers- I think, despite their downward spiral at the end of the regular season, Doug Collins did a really good job with that team. Losing Lou Williams and Elton Brand was significant but Nick Young isn't a bad alternative. Furthermore, I think Lavoy Allen will emerge as a solid young PF and will be in the running for a most improved player award. Also, Arnett Moultrie might be a sleeper pick for an All Rookie team. He can ball.

Hawks- Say what you will about his contract, getting rid of Joe Johnson for nothing doesn't immediately make your team better. In the long run, it will certainly help with cap room because let's face it...he was overpaid. However, cap room doesn't win you games (at least not directly). They also got rid of Marvin Williams, who I never really liked but was their SF. They replaced him with Devin Harris which baffled me. I see it as a salary dump move since Harris is an expirer. I think it will hinder Teague's growth though.

Bucks- Part of me wants to put the Bulls, Toronto or Orlando here. The Bucks are so streaky. I think they will sneak into the 8th spot because out of default for reason I've mentioned below. I think Ilyasova is the real deal. Tobias Harris looked really good in Summer League. He added muscle and refined his skills. I think if he can crack their lineup at the SF position, they could be a playoff team. Adding Doron Lamb for bench scoring was a nice draft pick.




Contenders for the 8th spot:
Bulls- while brilliantly coached and constantly overachieving, just lost way too much IMO. They're losing Rose for most, if not all, of the season. CJ Watson choseto go to the Nets instead of relishing in the opportunity to be the man until Rose gets back. JL III went to Toronto. They lost Brewer and Korver. Bellinelli doesn't fit their style IMO. If anyone can do it, it's Thibs, but I think these hurdles will just be too much. While they pride themselves on their defense, I don't think you can win enough games to make the playoffs when Luol Deng is your only scoring threat.

Orlando- As annoying as Dwight's free agency situation is, I have to applaud him for not quitting on his team last year. He may have thrown some guys under the bus but he still competed at a high level. Who know's what Jacque Vaughn brings to the table asa coach? :confusedshrug: At the time being though, they still have the best center in the league....for now:rolleyes:. That, at least, gives them an 8th seed shot.

Toronto- Were they dumbasses for giving Landry all that money? Absolutely. But they might have gotten a sleeper pick for ROY in Terrence Ross. This kid can play. I also think they upgraded their PG position by getting Lowry. They'll be a tough defensive team...at least in the backcourt. I'm hearing nothing but amazin things about this Valanciunas kid. If he's the real deal, him and Bargnani could be a nice 1-2 punch in the frountcourt. That's a big if though and I haven't seen enough of him to give him my certified stamp of approval.

Rameek
07-30-2012, 01:05 PM
I think the Knicks should be playoff bound based on the inadequacies of other teams but not by the Knicks on merit/talent.

Nothing that the knicks have done gives me the confidence they are better than an 8th seed at this point. Nothing acquired or subtracted has significantly put the knicks in a better position for success. Basically its a sideways summer that has to be proven on the court its better.

The reason being, I dont think this coaching staff is smart enough or quality enough to solve the biggest issue on the knicks which is how can Melo and Stat can play together where they influence the game on both ends of the floor. Also, its hard to say that players are going to be better from last year to this year.

This is only a primilary assessment though. Lets see what happens to teams as rosters gets finalized and they get into camps.

bluechox2
07-30-2012, 01:39 PM
we are probably in the middle of the pack in regards of standings. i hope we get our first season where the knicks actually do some dominating of their own instead of hoping for other teams to play dead for them. we need to play with some fire instead of expecting to be a great team but not playing like one.

Sarcastic
07-30-2012, 05:12 PM
Anything less than a 3 seed is a bad season.

Clutch
07-30-2012, 05:17 PM
Anything less than a 3 seed is a bad season.
I pretty much agree. We need to get that homecourt advantage and play against a beatable opponent in the 1st round.

Rameek
07-30-2012, 05:28 PM
Anything less than a 3 seed is a bad season.
Maked me a believer....

knickscity
07-30-2012, 05:38 PM
Outside of Miami, no one is definitively better.

This might be the first season in a while that the team goes into a training camp with actual pieces at each position with proper depth that should be able to play off each other, and with cohesion.

A good mix of offense surrounded by guys who defend and rebound.

If they aren't battling for 2nd seed, something is definitely wrong.

Bano114
07-30-2012, 07:27 PM
Agree for the most part with the OP but I expect more from the Bulls and less from the Nets. I see us getting the 4th spot with the Heat first, Boston second and the Pacers third.

Rameek
07-30-2012, 09:46 PM
still waiting for why the hopes so high?

knickscity
07-31-2012, 04:26 AM
still waiting for why the hopes so high?
Not a hope, rather an expectation.

Two of the top 5 highest paid on the same team, anchored by a DPOY?

I'm sorry...... HCA in the first round, combined by a second round knockout is a waste of a season.

These guys wanted the big money, time to play for their checks.

Clutch
07-31-2012, 05:00 AM
still waiting for why the hopes so high?
Because we have a really deep team with 2 stars/superstars. Also D'Antoni is no longer here,Knicks will play hard every night instead of taking a night off against weaker opponents like it was the case with Mike D'Antoni.

Jasi
07-31-2012, 05:30 AM
Not a hope, rather an expectation.

Two of the top 5 highest paid on the same team, anchored by a DPOY?

I'm sorry...... HCA in the first round, combined by a second round knockout is a waste of a season.

These guys wanted the big money, time to play for their checks.

That was the case last year as well.
Sure we also had Dumbtoni.

But still, I'm not a huge believer.
I even liked our off-season move so far. But the thing is, I still think that the "Melo + Amare" duo is just lower than the sum of its parts.
I hope I'm wrong.
4th seed, 2nd round, ECF tops. Definitely not a contender.

knickscity
07-31-2012, 06:25 AM
That was the case last year as well.
Sure we also had Dumbtoni.

But still, I'm not a huge believer.
I even liked our off-season move so far. But the thing is, I still think that the "Melo + Amare" duo is just lower than the sum of its parts.
I hope I'm wrong.
4th seed, 2nd round, ECF tops. Definitely not a contender.
Yup, and the consensus was that the team underachieved.

At some point there has to be an actual ownership to playing up to what your paid or honestly they can gtfo.

Just curious though, if they made the ECF, they wouldn't be considered a contender?

Jasi
07-31-2012, 06:29 AM
Yup, and the consensus was that the team underachieved.

At some point there has to be an actual ownership to playing up to what your paid or honestly they can gtfo.

Just curious though, if they made the ECF, they wouldn't be considered a contender?

I don't see them reaching the ECF as legit contenders for the EC title, let alone for the NBA title.

knickscity
07-31-2012, 06:38 AM
I don't see them reaching the ECF as legit contenders for the EC title, let alone for the NBA title.
Outside of Miami, I don't see a better squad in the East either.

They'll make it by default at worst case.

bluechox2
07-31-2012, 08:59 AM
Outside of Miami, I don't see a better squad in the East either.

They'll make it by default at worst case.
teams from last years playoffs

heat - improved (ray allen)


bulls - regressed (rose injury, gave up on their bench which was a huge part of their defense)
pacers - regressed (lost their starting pg, weak backcourt)
celtics - improved by a little margin, still beatable (keep in mind, ray allen always torched us at the end of games, so hes gone, just need to contain pierce)
magic-regressed (Dwight will be gone, lost anderson, will lose hedo or richardson along with dwight)
Sixers - regressed (lost brand, weak interior)

_____

nets - new challenger for a playoff spot (cant say how good they are till season begins)
bucks - can also challenge for a spot

other teams need to surprise me (potential = wizards, cavs)

knicks, have improved their overall D at most positions, more depth, stronger pg play compared to last season

we should be somewhere at the top, no less than 3rd seed, anything less is just pure laziness of our players

franchize
07-31-2012, 09:32 AM
As long as we're not 7th or 8th, I could care less about our seeding. I think, other than Miami, we can beat anyone in the playoffs as far as the East is concerned.

As for our team. As Bluechox said, I think we got slightly better and a lot of teams have gotten worse. (Although I disagree about the Pacers)

While I don't like the Kidd acquisition one bit, he's clearly better than Mike Bibby. I think Felton is as good, if not better than Lin RIGHT NOW. I think Douglas is gone. Camby, when healthy, is as good if not better than Chandler. Brewer is a better defender than Fields and probably fits our new identity more. Most importantly though, D'Antoni is GONE!!! :cheers:

I think our defense will be better under Woodson. I think our chemistry will improve becase we have a training camp finally. And I expect our turnovers to take a huge dip with Baron and Jeremy gone.

Do I think we got significantly better over this summer? N. I do think we improve somewhat and some of the pernnial powerhouses took a step back. (Orlando, Chicago)

el gringos
07-31-2012, 11:05 AM
Top 6 regular season ec team. Top 3 best team come playoffs.

Just so much good coaching to be done
-must start jr and Kidd in the backcourt- those 2 starting with Felton as 6th man is only way to maximize roster, but I could see taking the easy way out and putting Felton/brewer out there and making the game way harder on Carmelo and amare
-building amares value back up- this team is 1 amare trade away from. Sing real contenders. But can't trade him unless he shows he is a #1 scorer type.

bluechox2
07-31-2012, 11:41 AM
Top 6 regular season ec team. Top 3 best team come playoffs.

Just so much good coaching to be done
-must start jr and Kidd in the backcourt- those 2 starting with Felton as 6th man is only way to maximize roster, but I could see taking the easy way out and putting Felton/brewer out there and making the game way harder on Carmelo and amare
-building amares value back up- this team is 1 amare trade away from. Sing real contenders. But can't trade him unless he shows he is a #1 scorer type.

jr needs to come off the bench with kidd cus you can t have trigger happy felton out there taking all the shots off the bench

atleast with kidd and Jr paired, you wont see any shot jacking, and kidd can find the right guy

felton in the starting lineup would have to get melo and amare theirs and he can help stretch the floor with his range

Rameek
07-31-2012, 02:59 PM
As the season slowly approaches and teams start to round out their roster, it lead me to wonder where we stand in the Eastern Conference. I just wanted to know your opinions. I think we'll end up with the 5th seed with the standings as follows:

Your assessement was well thought out and reasonable as usual franchize... Not some just because stuff:bowdown: :rockon:

Heat-Champs have the most physically gifted and talented player in the league. Ray will have many potentially open look.

Bulls-Although Rose will be out for extended time the team did perform well without him. CJ watson is gone.

Pacers-All major players back. DJ & Paul should make a good back court.

Celtics-Should be the 1st or 2nd seed. I mean Bradley back, Terry, Courtney, Jeff Green, Sullinger, Fab, this is what a good GM can do for a team plus getting healthy!(Bluechox2 dont know what in the world you talking about!)

Nets-Deron, Joe, Wallace, Lopez, CJ, Brooks, Humphries, Teletovic great pieces LEGIT! I really dont think it will take that long to mesh.

Orlando-As long as DHoward is there they are a contender!

Hawks-Minus Joe but Lou Will, Devin Harris should be playoff bound.

Philly-A little worse but a great coach can be respectable.

Bucks-Not much added but Moped should keep them around.

I cant see how Knick fans assume a top 5 spot. There is no evidence that Felton, Melo, Stat will be good together. If these 3 guys dont play well together the Knicks could barely make it in or not make it at all.

Even though the Knicks could get in by default because the landscape has changed drastically but it still comes down to Felton, Stat, Melo playing well together!

franchize
07-31-2012, 04:21 PM
Your assessement was well thought out and reasonable as usual franchize... Not some just because stuff:bowdown: :rockon:

Heat-Champs have the most physically gifted and talented player in the league. Ray will have many potentially open look.

Bulls-Although Rose will be out for extended time the team did perform well without him. CJ watson is gone.

Pacers-All major players back. DJ & Paul should make a good back court.

Celtics-Should be the 1st or 2nd seed. I mean Bradley back, Terry, Courtney, Jeff Green, Sullinger, Fab, this is what a good GM can do for a team plus getting healthy!(Bluechox2 dont know what in the world you talking about!)

Nets-Deron, Joe, Wallace, Lopez, CJ, Brooks, Humphries, Teletovic great pieces LEGIT! I really dont think it will take that long to mesh.

Orlando-As long as DHoward is there they are a contender!

Hawks-Minus Joe but Lou Will, Devin Harris should be playoff bound.

Philly-A little worse but a great coach can be respectable.

Bucks-Not much added but Moped should keep them around.

I cant see how Knick fans assume a top 5 spot. There is no evidence that Felton, Melo, Stat will be good together. If these 3 guys dont play well together the Knicks could barely make it in or not make it at all.

Even though the Knicks could get in by default because the landscape has changed drastically but it still comes down to Felton, Stat, Melo playing well together!

Anyone who disputes your last statement is a fool. I think everyone can agree on that part. But I see that and raise you 2 more important factors. I think Tyson and Amare meshing is an even more difficult conundrum. And I think our contributions from the sg position, while Shumpert is out, is key. If Brewer and JR can just give us something. Doesn't have to be great.

As for your evaluations,

Bulls-I'm curious as to why you don't think the Bulls will take a significant step back. I'll admit, I expect them to overachieve because of their great coaching. 2nd seed though? They not only lost CJ but they lost JL III. So essentially, they lost their 1st, 2nd AND 3rd string pg from last year. You have faith in Marquis Teague like that? I just don't know where the scoring will come from.

Pacers- DJ won't be starting. Hill will be, but DJ is a solid backup. I agree here

Orlando- I think they played well despite the drama simply because Howard played with pride and because Stan Van Gundy is a strong defensive mind. He's gone and I just to see a rookie head coach holding all that ego together... even if he's from a Popovich pedigree. I find it hard to believe Dwight finishes the season in a Magic uniform and lets face it, that team without him is basically the Hornets.

Hawks- I agree they're playoff bound but I think getting Devin Harris was a bad move for the development of Jeff Teague. I never liked Danny Ferry as a GM.He's the same guy who passed on getting Amare in his prime because he didn't want to trade JJ Hickson.

Bucks- As I said before, the key to their team relies on what they get from either Henson (thus being able to move Ilyasova to the 3) or Harris (thus having a strong SF to help Ilyasova who is slender in build)

Overall though, I agree with most of your assessments

el gringos
07-31-2012, 07:39 PM
jr needs to come off the bench with kidd cus you can t have trigger happy felton out there taking all the shots off the bench

atleast with kidd and Jr paired, you wont see any shot jacking, and kidd can find the right guy

felton in the starting lineup would have to get melo and amare theirs and he can help stretch the floor with his range
Jr is the one who has to be on the floor with Carmelo and amare to space the floor. If you play brewer with them you will have Carmelo playing the perimeter instead of playing around the basket. Until amare is replaced with a shooter jr is needed with the starting group

kNicKz
08-01-2012, 01:25 PM
If stoudemire is healthy and the team has chemistry I say we can get 3rd or 4th seed!!! But I also said that last year lol

NA2126
08-03-2012, 10:10 AM
Because we have a really deep team with 2 stars/superstars. Also D'Antoni is no longer here,Knicks will play hard every night instead of taking a night off against weaker opponents like it was the case with Mike D'Antoni.

I personally don't see Amare as a star or superstar anymore (if that's who you meant by the second star). He's showing age, he's on a steady decline [due to health], and didn't even make the last Allstar game - not even the bench. Disk injuries never heal 100% from my research and understanding, I suffer from one as well.

Therefore, technically we've only got one star/superstar on this squad. Also, I don't know if there's a way to pull this stat but didn't Amare have the most shots blocked last season for a big?

percelloveknicks
08-05-2012, 05:43 PM
I personally don't see Amare as a star or superstar anymore (if that's who you meant by the second star). He's showing age, he's on a steady decline [due to health], and didn't even make the last Allstar game - not even the bench. Disk injuries never heal 100% from my research and understanding, I suffer from one as well.

Therefore, technically we've only got one star/superstar on this squad. Also, I don't know if there's a way to pull this stat but didn't Amare have the most shots blocked last season for a big? i totally agree with your assessment, welcome to the forum man.

Alan Shore
08-05-2012, 07:01 PM
Anyone who disputes your last statement is a fool. I think everyone can agree on that part. But I see that and raise you 2 more important factors. I think Tyson and Amare meshing is an even more difficult conundrum. And I think our contributions from the sg position, while Shumpert is out, is key. If Brewer and JR can just give us something. Doesn't have to be great.

As for your evaluations,

Bulls-I'm curious as to why you don't think the Bulls will take a significant step back. I'll admit, I expect them to overachieve because of their great coaching. 2nd seed though? They not only lost CJ but they lost JL III. So essentially, they lost their 1st, 2nd AND 3rd string pg from last year. You have faith in Marquis Teague like that? I just don't know where the scoring will come from.

Pacers- DJ won't be starting. Hill will be, but DJ is a solid backup. I agree here

Orlando- I think they played well despite the drama simply because Howard played with pride and because Stan Van Gundy is a strong defensive mind. He's gone and I just to see a rookie head coach holding all that ego together... even if he's from a Popovich pedigree. I find it hard to believe Dwight finishes the season in a Magic uniform and lets face it, that team without him is basically the Hornets.

Hawks- I agree they're playoff bound but I think getting Devin Harris was a bad move for the development of Jeff Teague. I never liked Danny Ferry as a GM.He's the same guy who passed on getting Amare in his prime because he didn't want to trade JJ Hickson.

Bucks- As I said before, the key to their team relies on what they get from either Henson (thus being able to move Ilyasova to the 3) or Harris (thus having a strong SF to help Ilyasova who is slender in build)

Overall though, I agree with most of your assessments


never mind the stat and ty meshing-- it's a red herring. neither are playmakers.

how soon stat is moved to the bench will be the key. nothing else will work.

bluechox2
08-06-2012, 06:34 AM
lets hope we dont get too many injuries this year

franchize
08-07-2012, 08:58 AM
lets hope we dont get too many injuries this year
Injuries in sports are the one thing you can't really prepare for. Sure, you can add depth, but even then, you're biggest asset is prayer. I'm with you. I think our #1 need this year is health.

bluechox2
08-07-2012, 09:56 AM
last 2 season, we got hit hard in the playoffs, i still believe we could have taken the celtics if billups wasnt hurt,

thought against the heat, we probably could of had another win tops

most importantly is seeding and nabbing a top 3 spot for home court

Da KO King
08-08-2012, 07:27 PM
The season will come down to how well Ray Felton and Jason Kidd keep the offense organized and spaced.

If both Felton and Kidd make sure that Tyson Chandler is never in Amar'e Stoudemire's way when Amar'e is in scoring position, the team will exceed expectations. If they don't then the Knicks will scrape by and get a bottom seed in the playoffs.

bluechox2
08-10-2012, 03:12 AM
looks like lakers are winning for hte next 2 years

how stupid can the magic be? 3 mid-to-end lottery picks, and al haringtion?

i feel like this atm
http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv298/NY_Comeback/Other/2732615_m.gif

man some teams are just handed the trophies

franchize
08-10-2012, 09:07 AM
looks like lakers are winning for hte next 2 years

how stupid can the magic be? 3 mid-to-end lottery picks, and al haringtion?

i feel like this atm
http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv298/NY_Comeback/Other/2732615_m.gif

man some teams are just handed the trophies

I'm just wondering if the other 3 teams had lube when they raped the Magic. I mean seriously, this was as dumb a mov as youcan make. They actually tok o salary if the proposed trade is accurate. They got rid of Rchardso's contract and added Harrington and Afflalo's contracts.

I'm curious to see if Denver is going to trade either Gallo or Chandler. They'll have 3 small forwards getting paid handsomely. I'd suspect one has to go.

Bleacher Report is bout the only people that think this was a good trade for Orlando (and theyre idiots anyway). I would be surprised if they made the playoffs. I also think Philly, while geting Bynum is an upgrade, will be easier for us to beat. Who's their go to wing player now? Plus, who's gonna guard Melo?

Rameek
08-10-2012, 09:30 AM
I'm just wondering if the other 3 teams had lube when they raped the Magic. I mean seriously, this was as dumb a mov as youcan make. They actually tok o salary if the proposed trade is accurate. They got rid of Rchardso's contract and added Harrington and Afflalo's contracts.

I'm curious to see if Denver is going to trade either Gallo or Chandler. They'll have 3 small forwards getting paid handsomely. I'd suspect one has to go.

Bleacher Report is bout the only people that think this was a good trade for Orlando (and theyre idiots anyway). I would be surprised if they made the playoffs. I also think Philly, while geting Bynum is an upgrade, will be easier for us to beat. Who's their go to wing player now? Plus, who's gonna guard Melo?
I think Denver willuse Iggy as a sg. Philly will use Turner young at sg and Wright jason at the SF.

I think your assessment of the Melo factor isnt accurate. Melo can get his but stop the rest of the Knicks.

knickscity
08-10-2012, 11:36 AM
Orlando got what they wanted.....picks, fresh start, contract dumps, no more drama.

LA essentially trades Bynum for Dwight

Philly gets the star they crave.

Denver upgrades with Iggy.

Everyone won, there was no fleecing involved in this one.

bluechox2
08-10-2012, 11:44 AM
so how well do we match up against lakers now?

knickscity
08-10-2012, 12:41 PM
If it means Knicks in the finals, i really wouldn't care.

franchize
08-10-2012, 03:14 PM
Orlando got what they wanted.....picks, fresh start, contract dumps, no more drama.

LA essentially trades Bynum for Dwight

Philly gets the star they crave.

Denver upgrades with Iggy.

Everyone won, there was no fleecing involved in this one.

Not really. What contract dump? They actually took on 2 big contracts in Afflalo and Harrington. J Rich makes about the same as Afflalo and has less years. I thought the contract they were tryna get rid of was Hedo.

franchize
08-10-2012, 03:19 PM
I think Denver willuse Iggy as a sg. Philly will use Turner young at sg and Wright jason at the SF.

I think your assessment of the Melo factor isnt accurate. Melo can get his but stop the rest of the Knicks.

After seeing Melo drop the numbers he's dropping in less than 20 minutes this summer, I feel fairly secure in my assessment. Him and Amare can get theirs. I'm just curious as to who's gonna guard him.

Overall, I thought they had a mediocre offseason altogether. The gained Bynum and Young. They lost Brand, Iggy and Lou Will. I like the acquisition of Moultrie but I don't expect him to ocme out the gates making a huge impact. I think we match up well against them as long as Tyson does what he got paid for.

bluechox2
08-11-2012, 01:00 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/23228/where-can-the-knicks-finish-in-the-east

espn's take on where the knicks stand

Alan Shore
08-11-2012, 02:43 PM
After seeing Melo drop the numbers he's dropping in less than 20 minutes this summer, I feel fairly secure in my assessment. Him and Amare can get theirs. I'm just curious as to who's gonna guard him.

Overall, I thought they had a mediocre offseason altogether. The gained Bynum and Young. They lost Brand, Iggy and Lou Will. I like the acquisition of Moultrie but I don't expect him to ocme out the gates making a huge impact. I think we match up well against them as long as Tyson does what he got paid for.


it's a team game. it doesn't matter too much if melo "gets his" at the expense of team cohesion and synergy... which was the same exact problem with stoudemire his first season here. yes the knicks were at a respectable 28-26 as of the trade for melo but stoudemire burned himself out during that first 54 games by barreling into three defenders and never finding open teammates. people like to overlook that fact by applauding the asinine notion of "beasting" or "putting the team on his back" and other such nonsense.

and in acquiring melo the knicks have this same problem doubled, perhaps even squared.

will woodson figure something out and have a better regular-season record? maybe. but come playoff time it's likely the same old story of stat and melo not being able to enhance the other and relying on a crappy felton and an old and perhaps still-creative facilitator in jason kidd. woodson isn't exactly a genius and gets exposed in the playoffs.

Rameek
08-12-2012, 12:05 AM
After seeing Melo drop the numbers he's dropping in less than 20 minutes this summer, I feel fairly secure in my assessment. Him and Amare can get theirs. I'm just curious as to who's gonna guard him.

Overall, I thought they had a mediocre offseason altogether. The gained Bynum and Young. They lost Brand, Iggy and Lou Will. I like the acquisition of Moultrie but I don't expect him to ocme out the gates making a huge impact. I think we match up well against them as long as Tyson does what he got paid for.
Obviously you saw what happened last year. Melo can score 40 every night and lets say he hits 50%.... Someone else has to be able to score as well. To assume Stats uninfluential scoring is a legit 2nd option has gotten the Knicks no where.

Its funny how even the espn link implies the Knicks arent better than last year because of our own merit but its based on what other teams did or didnt do.

DUP
08-13-2012, 05:34 PM
man, philly got better. going to be interesting to see how we match up with them

Da KO King
08-13-2012, 07:36 PM
man, philly got better. going to be interesting to see how we match up with them
Philly is getting way over-rated. The Eastern Conference is Miami and a bunch of "also-rans". Philly is not markedly better than any of the rest of the pack.

Their projected rotation is not nearly as good as fans/media is implying it is.

Starters
Point Guard: Jrue Holiday
Shooting Guard: Evan Turner
Small Forward: Dorell Wright
Power Forward: Spencer Hawes
Center: Andrew Bynum

Bench
6th Man: Thaddeus Young
7th Man: Jason Richardson/Nick Young
8th Man: Kwame Brown/Lavoy Allen
Bench Scoring Specialist: Jason Richardson/Nick Young
Bench Big Man: Kwame Brown/Lavoy Allen/Arnett Moultrie
Third-String Forward: Lavoy Allen/Arnett Moultrie

Scoooter
08-14-2012, 01:21 AM
That front court looks pretty good on paper, but they traded away their best player for a giant teenager with dodgy knees. Iffy.

On the other hand, of the course the second best center in the league just got sent to the Atlantic division for no reason. And with the Knicks' fans luck, of course it will pan out. :lol

percelloveknicks
08-14-2012, 08:03 AM
Philly is getting way over-rated. The Eastern Conference is Miami and a bunch of "also-rans". Philly is not markedly better than any of the rest of the pack.

Their projected rotation is not nearly as good as fans/media is implying it is.

Starters
Point Guard: Jrue Holiday
Shooting Guard: Evan Turner
Small Forward: Dorell Wright
Power Forward: Spencer Hawes
Center: Andrew Bynum

Bench
6th Man: Thaddeus Young
7th Man: Jason Richardson/Nick Young
8th Man: Kwame Brown/Lavoy Allen
Bench Scoring Specialist: Jason Richardson/Nick Young
Bench Big Man: Kwame Brown/Lavoy Allen/Arnett Moultrie
Third-String Forward: Lavoy Allen/Arnett MoultrieI think nick young takes evan turner's spot.

franchize
08-14-2012, 10:13 AM
Philly is getting way over-rated. The Eastern Conference is Miami and a bunch of "also-rans". Philly is not markedly better than any of the rest of the pack.

Their projected rotation is not nearly as good as fans/media is implying it is.

Starters
Point Guard: Jrue Holiday
Shooting Guard: Evan Turner
Small Forward: Dorell Wright
Power Forward: Spencer Hawes
Center: Andrew Bynum

Bench
6th Man: Thaddeus Young
7th Man: Jason Richardson/Nick Young
8th Man: Kwame Brown/Lavoy Allen
Bench Scoring Specialist: Jason Richardson/Nick Young
Bench Big Man: Kwame Brown/Lavoy Allen/Arnett Moultrie
Third-String Forward: Lavoy Allen/Arnett Moultrie

I've got to agree. I've always thought Bynum was a little overrated. That said, even if Bynum is who people expect him to be, Philly lost a lot of players. They lost their best defender (Iggy), their best scorer (Lou Will) and their best low post player (Brand). Now Bynum obviously is an upgrade over Hawes and I like getting the Arnett Moultrie pick. I also think Lavoy Allen will break out as a sleeper player. That said, I think they lost a lot and it's being overlooked. Iggy was overpaid, but he did fit exactly what Doug Collins wants. Collins coaches tough defense. It'll be interesting to see if Bynum buys in. Andrew can be very lazy at times and disappear on the court.

Da KO King
08-14-2012, 02:59 PM
I think nick young takes evan turner's spot.
I don't that. Even with people thinking Turner is a bust he's a better basketball player and more conducive to winning than Young.

DUP
08-15-2012, 05:58 AM
Philly is getting way over-rated. The Eastern Conference is Miami and a bunch of "also-rans". Philly is not markedly better than any of the rest of the pack.

Their projected rotation is not nearly as good as fans/media is implying it is.

Starters
Point Guard: Jrue Holiday
Shooting Guard: Evan Turner
Small Forward: Dorell Wright
Power Forward: Spencer Hawes
Center: Andrew Bynum

Bench
6th Man: Thaddeus Young
7th Man: Jason Richardson/Nick Young
8th Man: Kwame Brown/Lavoy Allen
Bench Scoring Specialist: Jason Richardson/Nick Young
Bench Big Man: Kwame Brown/Lavoy Allen/Arnett Moultrie
Third-String Forward: Lavoy Allen/Arnett Moultrie
that is a good team bro. dorell wright was amazing in warriors (1st year at least) if he can do the same, with jrue and bynum? Also evan turner is developing nicely. I dont like Hawes at 4 though

DUP
08-15-2012, 05:59 AM
I don't that. Even with people thinking Turner is a bust he's a better basketball player and more conducive to winning than Young.
Young is a better sixth man, you are right, he will be off the bench. turner will be starting for sure. they picked him #2 for a reason :oldlol:

Rameek
08-15-2012, 04:48 PM
Philly has a legit coach they should be good he should use bynum well. Not like iggy was a star that they are replacing. Hawes has range he needs to stay healthy.

Da KO King
08-15-2012, 07:42 PM
that is a good team bro. dorell wright was amazing in warriors (1st year at least) if he can do the same, with jrue and bynum? Also evan turner is developing nicely. I dont like Hawes at 4 though
It's a good team, but the stuff being said about the team right now is crazy. People are implying that the Eastern Conference is now a battle between Philly and Miami. That is ridiculous.

knicksman
08-20-2012, 11:21 PM
as long as melo is here, this team is going nowhere. The guy is a cancer. He made lin, fields, worse. And why is that? because hes a ball stopper and clogs the paint with his post up BS. Melo is a low IQ player. instead of focusing on playing like a guard, he instead played like a big man. Sorry but no team has yet won with an undersized big. Bird, johson, lebron won because they are big men who plays like guards. They face up and played off the ball. Thats why durant and lebron are battling in the finals while melo is a constant first rounder. Those guys are more effective scorers as evidenced by their FG%. They may have few moves but they have the more important and effective moves while melo is what you call quantity over quality. More moves but less effective. Or the style over substance.

Thats why melo is the easiest player to stop coz posting up is the least effective style. Just look at his games against the top defensive teams. He always disappear thats why he had a lot of bad games in the playoffs.

Sorry but only low IQ players focus on being a post up. Posting up is the least effective and its dependent on height and strength. Thats why only big men are effective on it. You dont see guards posting up because its not effective. Im sure if they can post, they would but not with big men. Im sure every big man wants to face up or play like dirk or durant but they cant coz its just too hard for them. Thats why I laugh at people who thinks melo is better than amare. LOL The end result just speaks for itself. Amare has been contending since his 3rd yr while melo is not a 1st option but a 2nd option during their only run to the WCF coz hes not a 25-30ppg scorer but a 22 ppg. Amare is a big man that plays like a guard while melo is an undersized big.

el gringos
08-21-2012, 05:26 AM
Wanting Carmelo to play "more like a guard" than posting up shows that you don't understand the game of basketball. Clearly anyone with an understanding of the game and talent would want Carmelo playing around the basket as much as possible. And that doesn't mean playing him as an undersized 4 it means playing him around the basket against other 3's. The issue is floor spacing and the need for a pf or c who offensively plays the perimeter in a role you might think is exclusive to a sf or sg


Don't want Carmelo posting up- you are a fool

el gringos
08-21-2012, 05:34 AM
as long as melo is here, this team is going nowhere. The guy is a cancer. He made lin, fields, worse. And why is that? because hes a ball stopper and clogs the paint with his post up BS. Melo is a low IQ player. instead of focusing on playing like a guard, he instead played like a big man. Sorry but no team has yet won with an undersized big. Bird, johson, lebron won because they are big men who plays like guards. They face up and played off the ball. Thats why durant and lebron are battling in the finals while melo is a constant first rounder. Those guys are more effective scorers as evidenced by their FG%. They may have few moves but they have the more important and effective moves while melo is what you call quantity over quality. More moves but less effective. Or the style over substance.

Thats why melo is the easiest player to stop coz posting up is the least effective style. Just look at his games against the top defensive teams. He always disappear thats why he had a lot of bad games in the playoffs.

Sorry but only low IQ players focus on being a post up. Posting up is the least effective and its dependent on height and strength. Thats why only big men are effective on it. You dont see guards posting up because its not effective. Im sure if they can post, they would but not with big men. Im sure every big man wants to face up or play like dirk or durant but they cant coz its just too hard for them. Thats why I laugh at people who thinks melo is better than amare. LOL The end result just speaks for itself. Amare has been contending since his 3rd yr while melo is not a 1st option but a 2nd option during their only run to the WCF coz hes not a 25-30ppg scorer but a 22 ppg. Amare is a big man that plays like a guard while melo is an undersized big.
Holy shit- read it again and it gets even dumber. You really should avoid posting on theory of the game. Posting up is very important and effective at any size- have you never really seen Jordan, Kobe, Paul pierce, magic, on and on and on......

How did you ever come up with those thoughts? Im sorry to hate on you but really feel bad for you

Clutch
08-21-2012, 06:58 AM
as long as melo is here, this team is going nowhere. The guy is a cancer. He made lin, fields, worse. And why is that? because hes a ball stopper and clogs the paint with his post up BS. Melo is a low IQ player. instead of focusing on playing like a guard, he instead played like a big man. Sorry but no team has yet won with an undersized big. Bird, johson, lebron won because they are big men who plays like guards. They face up and played off the ball. Thats why durant and lebron are battling in the finals while melo is a constant first rounder. Those guys are more effective scorers as evidenced by their FG%. They may have few moves but they have the more important and effective moves while melo is what you call quantity over quality. More moves but less effective. Or the style over substance.

Thats why melo is the easiest player to stop coz posting up is the least effective style. Just look at his games against the top defensive teams. He always disappear thats why he had a lot of bad games in the playoffs.

Sorry but only low IQ players focus on being a post up. Posting up is the least effective and its dependent on height and strength. Thats why only big men are effective on it. You dont see guards posting up because its not effective. Im sure if they can post, they would but not with big men. Im sure every big man wants to face up or play like dirk or durant but they cant coz its just too hard for them. Thats why I laugh at people who thinks melo is better than amare. LOL The end result just speaks for itself. Amare has been contending since his 3rd yr while melo is not a 1st option but a 2nd option during their only run to the WCF coz hes not a 25-30ppg scorer but a 22 ppg. Amare is a big man that plays like a guard while melo is an undersized big.
His best games as a Knick came against best defensive teams. Two of them came in the playoffs.
42/17/6 on 47% shooting against the Celtics in game 2 of the 2011 NBA Playoffs
41/6/4 on 52% shooting against the Heat in game 4 of the 2012 NBA Playoffs
43/7/3 on 52% shooting against the Bulls (OT game when he hit 2 clutch threes)
42/9/5 on 52% shooting against the Heat in the regular season
37/8/3 on 59% shooting against the Celtics on Christmas

bluechox2
08-21-2012, 09:18 AM
Only the Knicks can land a superstar and turn him into a role player for other fans to bash

franchize
08-21-2012, 10:33 AM
Only the Knicks can land a superstar and turn him into a role player for other fans to bash
I agree. Most people felt we had the best frontcourt in the game. Somehow, we found a way to make that a bad thing.

knicksman
08-21-2012, 08:16 PM
Holy shit- read it again and it gets even dumber. You really should avoid posting on theory of the game. Posting up is very important and effective at any size- have you never really seen Jordan, Kobe, Paul pierce, magic, on and on and on......

How did you ever come up with those thoughts? Im sorry to hate on you but really feel bad for you

LMAO.. Then tell me what undersize big has won in this league? LOL None thats why melo has been a constant loser coz hes playing style sucks. Jordan, kobe, etc never depend on their post game while melo does. Its his first move while those winners only post up if theyre defended by small players. Those guys are great slashers and shooters. Sorry melo is the opposite of these guys. Bird, johson are big men who plays like guards while melo is a guard who plays like a big man. If you really understand basketball, you would realize that guards are more skilled than bigs to compensate for their lack of height and so every player should model their games on guards not big men. But go on if you think melo is doing the right way. Hes a dumbass. Reggie miller/ray allen are even more impactful players than him despite not being superstars. And you know why? Because they are the ideal sgs.

knicksman
08-21-2012, 08:17 PM
His best games as a Knick came against best defensive teams. Two of them came in the playoffs.
42/17/6 on 47% shooting against the Celtics in game 2 of the 2011 NBA Playoffs
41/6/4 on 52% shooting against the Heat in game 4 of the 2012 NBA Playoffs
43/7/3 on 52% shooting against the Bulls (OT game when he hit 2 clutch threes)
42/9/5 on 52% shooting against the Heat in the regular season
37/8/3 on 59% shooting against the Celtics on Christmas

Just look at the other games against the heat and against the celtics LOL. One game is not enough if its a playoff series.

franchize
08-22-2012, 02:22 PM
:facepalm Right back at it like a herpes outbreak lol

JBull
08-31-2012, 10:13 PM
I still feel we have the ability to do real damage in the league right now. We got a few years under our belt with Melo & STAT, and we brought in some vets to help us with the rough edges. We will be better, so lets stay humble and enjoy the ride.