Top 10 Perimeter Defenders All-Time?

[fpliii]

Sure, a guy on the outside playing his man can't do as much for you as a great defensive anchor, but having a player who can shut down a star wing is a luxury that coaches love to have.

Which 10 guys stand out above all others in league history, in your opinion?

:confusedshrug:

[NumberSix]

#1. LeBron
#2. MJ
#3. Pippen
rest.

[plowking]

Payton, Pippen, Dumars, Alvin Robertson, Jordan, Lebron, Artest, Cooper...

Something along those lines...

[greymatter]

Sure, a guy on the outside playing his man can't do as much for you as a great defensive anchor, but having a player who can shut down a star wing is a luxury that coaches love to have.

Which 10 guys stand out above all others in league history, in your opinion?

:confusedshrug:

The best ever in no particular order:

Sidney Moncrief
Michael Jordan
Scottie Pippen
Gary Payton
Bruce Bowen
Michael Cooper
Alvin Robertson

Honorable mention:
Kobe, Mookie Blaylock, Jason Kidd

[plowking]

The best ever in no particular order:

Sidney Moncrief
Michael Jordan
Scottie Pippen
Gary Payton
Bruce Bowen
Michael Cooper
Alvin Robertson

Honorable mention:
Kobe, Mookie Blaylock, Jason Kidd

Mookie was too small to really shut anyone down.

[fpliii]

Any love for Pistons Rodman?

[Odinn]

It's the 7th post and Frazier being mentioned for the first time...

[magic chiongson]

mookie played passing lanes well..i dont remember him as a lock-down defender

[StateOfMind12]

I made a thread about this with top 5 instead less than a month ago.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269745

Michael Jordan
Sidney Moncrief
Walt Frazier
Gary Payton
Kobe Bryant
Joe Dumars
Dennis Johnson
Scottie Pippen
Lebron James
Jerry West
Alvin Robertson
Michael Cooper
Bruce Bowen
Shane Battier
Ron Artest
Jason Kidd
John Havlicek
Bobby Jones

Are good nominations for this list. I'm not sure if I could come up with a top 10 but I believe I could easily come up with a top 5.

[fpliii]

I made a thread about this with top 5 instead less than a month ago.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269745

Michael Jordan
Sidney Moncrief
Walt Frazier
Gary Payton
Kobe Bryant
Joe Dumars
Dennis Johnson
Scottie Pippen
Lebron James
Jerry West
Alvin Robertson
Michael Cooper
Bruce Bowen
Shane Battier
Ron Artest
Jason Kidd
John Havlicek
Bobby Jones

Are good nominations for this list. I'm not sure if I could come up with a top 10 but I believe I could easily come up with a top 5.

oops, sorry for biting off your idea, totally forgot about it (I was actually the 2nd response, talk about poor memory)...I'll have to read through that thread

ideally using top 10 brings in some different names than you normally see in these types of threads though

hopefully no hard feelings bro :cheers:

[greymatter]

Mookie was too small to really shut anyone down.

Was rarely more than 11-12s left on the clock by the time the opposing team could even begin to set up their half court offense if the opposing PG had to dribble the ball past halfcourt with Mookie all over him.

[Gotterdammerung]

It's the 7th post and Frazier being mentioned for the first time...

He was great before the '76 merger, before all those mighty mouse point guards entered the league.

[pauk]

1. Scottie Pippen
2. Lebron James
3. Michael Jordan
4. Gary Payton
5. Ron Artest
6. Bruce Bowen
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Sidney Moncrief
9. Dennis Johnson
10. Michael Cooper

I have Pippen/Lebron up there because they are the most versatile perimeter defenders in NBA history aka. could efficiently defend or even shut down up to 4 positions, even some centers...

But as far as defending strictly the perimeter / defending strictly a perimeter player.... my list might change a bit

[guy]

1. Scottie Pippen
2. Lebron James
3. Michael Jordan
4. Gary Payton
5. Ron Artest
6. Bruce Bowen
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Sidney Moncrief
9. Dennis Johnson
10. Michael Cooper

I have Pippen/Lebron up there because they are the most versatile perimeter defenders in NBA history aka. could efficiently defend or even shut down up to 4 positions, even some centers...

But as far as defending strictly the perimeter / defending strictly a perimeter player.... my list might change a bit

What PFs have Pippen and Lebron ever "shut down"? And what centers have they ever "efficiently" defended?

[pauk]

What PFs have Pippen and Lebron ever "shut down"? And what centers have they ever "efficiently" defended?

The list is to long...

[KG215]

And no surprise as the two biggest LeBron stans have ranked him #1 and #2 all-time among the best perimeter players ever.

[KG215]

The list is to long...

Then name 10.

[noosaman]

I really get a kick out of people placing lefraud in this list. he's an average to slightly below average defensive player at his own position.

[WillC]

It's the 7th post and Frazier being mentioned for the first time...

This is ISH, home of the fanboys, what do you expect?

[StateOfMind12]

I think Lebron has a case over Jordan as a defender. I would probably take Jordan over Lebron for one playoff series and for one game but over a course of a season I am inclined to take Lebron. Jordan just wasn't as consistent as Lebron was defensively or Pippen for that matter but then again he was only less consistent than Pippen because Pippen's role on offense wasn't as big as Jordan's. Lebron's role offensively however was just as big as Jordan's, maybe even bigger.

Jordan needs exterior motivation in order to really play his best defense.

If a player is talking trash about Michael during a game or before a playoff series, if the media was criticizing his defense, or if a player is being compared to him and being ranked as good as him (Drexler in '92), then I would take Jordan's defense over anyone because during those situations he is without a doubt the greatest perimeter defender that has ever played.

The difference between Jordan and Lebron is that Lebron doesn't need that type of motivation to play that great of defense every night. He just plays his defense and plays hard on defense every night regardless of whether or not people are trash talking about him.

Jordan's issue with defense was consistency so over 82 games or 82 games + the post-season, I'm not sure if it was any better than LeBron's.

I don't think Lebron is the greatest perimeter defender of all-time but he probably has a case for like top 3 and better than Jordan's as well. Just my two cents and what I've heard others say about this topic.

[KG215]

I really get a kick out of people placing lefraud in this list. he's an average to slightly below average defensive player at his own position.

I don't know if I'd go that far. He's a versatile and very good defender, but calling him the best or second best all-time is laughable at this point in his career. If you want to put him in the 5-10 range right now, I can live with that, but he shouldn't be considered the best ever, yet.

[Odinn]

I think Lebron has a case over Jordan as a defender. I would probably take Jordan over Lebron for one playoff series and for one game but over a course of a season I am inclined to take Lebron. Jordan just wasn't as consistent as Lebron was defensively or Pippen for that matter but then again he was only less consistent than Pippen because Pippen's role on offense wasn't as big as Jordan's. Lebron's role offensively however was just as big as Jordan's, maybe even bigger.

Jordan needs exterior motivation in order to really play his best defense.

If a player is talking trash about Michael during a game or before a playoff series, if the media was criticizing his defense, or if a player is being compared to him and being ranked as good as him (Drexler in '92), then I would take Jordan's defense over anyone because during those situations he is without a doubt the greatest perimeter defender that has ever played.

The difference between Jordan and Lebron is that Lebron doesn't need that type of motivation to play that great of defense every night. He just plays his defense and plays hard on defense every night regardless of whether or not people are trash talking about him.

Jordan's issue with defense was consistency so over 82 games or 82 games + the post-season, I'm not sure if it was any better than LeBron's.

I don't think Lebron is the greatest perimeter defender of all-time but he probably has a case for like top 3 and better than Jordan's as well. Just my two cents and what I've heard others say about this topic.
And you did it again.:oldlol:

[StateOfMind12]

And you did it again.:oldlol:
Feel free to dismiss anything with what is wrong with my post opposed to dropping one liners that add no substance.

I'm assuming you are still mad that I put KG above Dirk? or is it that I put KG above Duncan for defense? Which is it?

[Odinn]

Feel free to dismiss anything with what is wrong with my post opposed to dropping one liners that add no substance.

I'm assuming you are still mad that I put KG above Dirk? or is it that I put KG above Duncan for defense? Which is it?
Nope. You're just trying to hide your stupidity by making assumptions about me.:oldlol:

You're a proven LeBron-stan. Have a good day sir.:roll: :roll:

[guy]

I think Lebron has a case over Jordan as a defender. I would probably take Jordan over Lebron for one playoff series and for one game but over a course of a season I am inclined to take Lebron. Jordan just wasn't as consistent as Lebron was defensively or Pippen for that matter but then again he was only less consistent than Pippen because Pippen's role on offense wasn't as big as Jordan's. Lebron's role offensively however was just as big as Jordan's, maybe even bigger.

Jordan needs exterior motivation in order to really play his best defense.

If a player is talking trash about Michael during a game or before a playoff series, if the media was criticizing his defense, or if a player is being compared to him and being ranked as good as him (Drexler in '92), then I would take Jordan's defense over anyone because during those situations he is without a doubt the greatest perimeter defender that has ever played.

The difference between Jordan and Lebron is that Lebron doesn't need that type of motivation to play that great of defense every night. He just plays his defense and plays hard on defense every night regardless of whether or not people are trash talking about him.

Jordan's issue with defense was consistency so over 82 games or 82 games + the post-season, I'm not sure if it was any better than LeBron's.

I don't think Lebron is the greatest perimeter defender of all-time but he probably has a case for like top 3 and better than Jordan's as well. Just my two cents and what I've heard others say about this topic.

HUH? Motivation? Did you even watch Jordan play?

[StateOfMind12]

Nope. You're just trying to hide your stupidity by making assumptions about me.:oldlol:

You're a proven LeBron-stan. Have a good day sir.:roll: :roll:
Ok, so you really can't prove that anything I just said was wrong. Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.....again.

I'll wait for a response from a poster that actually gives me a good explanation or a good argument. I'm sure KG215 could do that but I'm not sure if he is willing to.


HUH? Motivation? Did you even watch Jordan play?
Motivation for defense, I believe so. I only watched Jordan play in his 2nd 3-peat though so I did really miss out on his prime/peak days but was he much differently defensively then? I know he was motivated to play with well offensively and score each and every night but I'm not so sure about his defense and he definitely was not as great defensively in his 2nd 3-peat.

[guy]

The list is to long...

You could at least name 1.

[Odinn]

HUH? Motivation? Did you even watch Jordan play?
Of course he did.:rolleyes: :roll:

His opinion about all-time greats is nothing more than reads by some quailty posters. He's a teenager which is able to read and search. At least he has something to be respected about.:roll:

[StateOfMind12]

Of course he did.:rolleyes: :roll:

His opinion about all-time greats is nothing more than reads by some quailty posters. He's a teenager which is able to read and search. At least he has something to be respected about.:roll:

I'll just quote what you copy and paste what you said to me in this thread.

Nope. You're just trying to hide your stupidity by making assumptions about me.:oldlol:

It is apparent that I hurt your feelings that I have KG above Dirk or KG above Duncan defensively and now you are so mad that you just trying to stalk and spam all of my posts considering how before I made those two posts you would hardly ever say a word to me and you would never follow me as much.

[RIP CITY]

LeBron's name should not have came up in this thread, SMH. This is a defensive thread not offense.

[kennethgriffin]

kobe is atleast top 5

he's #1 all time in All defensive first teams for god sake

say 2 or whatever were off rep... hes still blasting everyone with p*ss

[WockaVodka]

kobe is atleast top 5

he's #1 all time in All defensive first teams
I can think of at least three selections that he shouldn't have gotten.

He is probably top 10 but not top 5.

Greatest perimeter defender is either Moncrief or Pippen.

[guy]

Ok, so you really can't prove that anything I just said was wrong. Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.....again.

I'll wait for a response from a poster that actually gives me a good explanation or a good argument. I'm sure KG215 could do that but I'm not sure if he is willing to.


Motivation for defense, I believe so. I only watched Jordan play in his 2nd 3-peat though so I did really miss out on his prime/peak days but was he much differently defensively then? I know he was motivated to play with well offensively and score each and every night but I'm not so sure about his defense and he definitely was not as great defensively in his 2nd 3-peat.

Jordan was always motivated defensively, even in the 2nd three-peat. Yes, he wasn't as good defensively in the 2nd three-peat, but not due to motivation but due to him being 33-35 years old. This is a bit of revisionist history made from a few that have tried to imply Jordan was not much more then a scorer. Jordan didn't take plays off defensively the way someone like Kobe has done for the past few years.

[KG215]

Ok, so you really can't prove that anything I just said was wrong. Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.....again.

I'll wait for a response from a poster that actually gives me a good explanation or a good argument. I'm sure KG215 could do that but I'm not sure if he is willing to.


I wouldn't be much help here. I'm 25 so I'm too young to remember first 3-peat Jordan. All I've seen of that Jordan is all of the 1993 Finals, all of the 1992 Finals, and a few games of the 1991 Finals. I can't say whether or not he took games off in the regular season because I haven't seen enough regular season footage of that Jordan.

And I was at that "totally mesmerized by everything Jordan so everything he did was perfect" age during the second 3-peat. I've gone back and watched those three Finals again as I've gotten older, and some regular season footage, and while he's not as perfect as I once thought, he was still really damn good on both ends.

Everything I've read on him, though, leads me to believe he was a relentless defender, especially in his younger days, and was a consistent defender - regular season and playoffs. Maybe he didn't bring it all 82 games every season, but I'm not sure that means he wasn't consistent. He was Jordan, so of course he played better when he felt slighted and could use that as motivation, but was he really that much better in those instances then when he wasn't motivated? I've always been under the impression Jordan was a consistent and motivated defender throughout his career.

[Vertical-24]

I'm so surprised by the lack of mentions of Dennis Rodman who back in the Bad Boy Days would try to hunt down cats! He was one of the greatest defenders (perimeter or otherwise) the league has ever seen. I dont even see any honorable mentions for him. Oh well...to each his own.

Top 10 Perimeter Defenders All-Time

01. Scottie Pippen
02. Sidney Moncrief
03. Gary Payton
04. Michael Jordan
05. Dennis Rodman
06. Ron Artest
07. Kobe Bryant
08. Bruce Bowen
09. Dennis Johnson
10. LeBron James (more for versatility than anything)

Honorable Mentions: Walt Frazier, Joe Dumars

[RaininTwos]

We get it, Jordan is perfect. Sheesh.

[noosaman]

I don't know if I'd go that far. He's a versatile and very good defender, but calling him the best or second best all-time is laughable at this point in his career. If you want to put him in the 5-10 range right now, I can live with that, but he shouldn't be considered the best ever, yet.

I can list 10 better perimeter defenders currently at his position just off the top of my head. And these are guys who play night and night out against the league's best offensive players and don't cherrypick possessions like lefraud.

Marion
Deng
Josh Howard
Kirilenko
Artest
Deshawn Stevenson
Mbah a Moute
Sefalosha
Iguodola
Josh Smith

Lefraud can basically go like 5 possessions in a game where he plays good defense. This shit sickens me when people act like he's a legit defensive player.

[bizil]

I'm so surprised by the lack of mentions of Dennis Rodman who back in the Bad Boy Days would try to hunt down cats! He was one of the greatest defenders (perimeter or otherwise) the league has ever seen. I dont even see any honorable mentions for him. Oh well...to each his own.

Top 10 Perimeter Defenders All-Time

01. Scottie Pippen
02. Sidney Moncrief
03. Gary Payton
04. Michael Jordan
05. Dennis Rodman
06. Ron Artest
07. Kobe Bryant
08. Bruce Bowen
09. Dennis Johnson
10. LeBron James (more for versatility than anything)

Honorable Mentions: Walt Frazier, Joe Dumars

I dig the mention of Rodman! The only thing is he ended up playing most of his career at the PF. So im sure many people left him off because they didn't know or even forgot that Rodman came in the L as SF. And that's an epic list and honorable mentions that u put up as well. Every guy u listed could defend PG, SG, and SF. Even the smaller guys in that 6'3 to 6'4 range like Moncrief, Dumars, Johnson, and Frazier. But in terms of the most versatile defenders ever at any position, I think u gotta roll with Rodman, KG, Pippen, Artest, and Lebron. I think they come the closest to being able to defend all five positions.

[bizil]

I can list 10 better perimeter defenders currently at his position just off the top of my head. And these are guys who play night and night out against the league's best offensive players and don't cherrypick possessions like lefraud.

Marion
Deng
Josh Howard
Kirilenko
Artest
Deshawn Stevenson
Mbah a Moute
Sefalosha
Iguodola
Josh Smith

Lefraud can basically go like 5 possessions in a game where he plays good defense. This shit sickens me when people act like he's a legit defensive player.

Lebron is a great defensive player! Of the guys u listed, he has WAY more responsibilities than the others. The only other great perimeter defenders who had their plate as full is MJ and Kobe.

[noosaman]

Lebron is a great defensive player! Of the guys u listed, he has WAY more responsibilities than the others. The only other great perimeter defenders who had their plate as full is MJ and Kobe.

LOL, Marion when he was on the Suns, would guard literally everyone, and I mean everyone, from Kobe to Dirk to Garnett to Duncan and to Yao down to all the great point guards.

Lebron's "responsiblities" is the biggest load of horseshit ever perpetuated by ESPN.

[Dictator]

I can list 10 better perimeter defenders currently at his position just off the top of my head. And these are guys who play night and night out against the league's best offensive players and don't cherrypick possessions like lefraud.

Marion
Deng
Josh Howard
Kirilenko
Artest
Deshawn Stevenson
Mbah a Moute
Sefalosha
Iguodola
Josh Smith

Lefraud can basically go like 5 possessions in a game where he plays good defense. This shit sickens me when people act like he's a legit defensive player.

Lebron is high-mid average. This list is pretty accurate.

[bizil]

LOL, Marion when he was on the Suns, would guard literally everyone, and I mean everyone, from Kobe to Dirk to Garnett to Duncan and to Yao down to all the great point guards.

Lebron's "responsiblities" is the biggest load of horseshit ever perpetuated by ESPN.

Im not talking on defense! LMBAO I'm talking on offense!!! And on the glass!!! Marion is not counted on to get nearly 30 points, 7-8 boards, and 7-9 dimes a night! And on top of it, Bron ALSO HAS TO CHECK PG-PF HELL EVEN CENTER! Im talking in terms of scoring, assists, boards, and defense! And in those terms, guys like Bron, MJ, and Kobe HAD WAY MORE RESPONSIBILITIES THAN A MARION, SMITH, ANDREI, etc.

Now if u think Smith, Kirilenko, or Marion are better defenders then that's cool. But Bron has the muscle that they don't have. Bron also has more foot speed to cover smaller players. So if I needed a guy who could check CP3 AND a physical PF or center, Bron can do that better than Smith, Marion, or Kirilenko. Bron is 6'8 and 260 pounds. Bron is for all intensive purposes the size of Karl Malone. Smith, Kirilenko,and Marion are the size of SF's who happen to have the athletic ability, instincts, and length to defend bigger players, but not necessarily the strength!

And by the way Bron wasn't always a great defender, this just came about a couple to three years ago. It was one of the main reasons I preferred Kobe over Bron as the best player. Between Kobe slowing down some and Bron improving his D, it made Bron the best player in the world!

[bizil]

Lebron is high-mid average. This list is pretty accurate.

Once again Bron is a great defender! It doesn't mean he's the best in the L, but he's in the convo. The other guys u listed aren't 6'8 and 260 pounds. Weight wise, u can't name 10 PF's in the L who weigh more than Bron. Love, Griffin, Gasol, Dirk, Aldridge, etc. don't weigh ANYMORE than 260 pounds. Im sure most of them actually weigh a little less. Some of them like Gasol and Dirk have long lean bodies. Bron is a rock. Those guys are just taller and longer.

So on the wing and on an island, those guys hold their own with Bron. Even though Bron is great at those aspects too. But those guys can't compete with a freak athlete that's 6'8 and 260 pounds in many ways as well.

[SyRyanYang]

Lebron's D is so underrated:facepalm
He played one season of good defense for chris's sake:facepalm

[WockaVodka]

Lebron's D is so underrated:facepalm
He played one season of good defense for chris's sake:facepalm
I'm confused with this post. I'm confused at how he only played one season of good defense and I'm confused at who Chris is and why is it Chris's sake?

[SyRyanYang]

I'm confused with this post. I'm confused at how he only played one season of good defense and I'm confused at who Chris is and why is it Chris's sake?
lol I missed a t, big deal? and I might change 'good" to "elite". You happy now?

[ukplayer4]

lol I missed a t, big deal? and I might change 'good" to "elite". You happy now?



no i think he's more confused because you said his d is underrated and then said he's played one season of good d. that would mean you meant his d is overrated. so it wasn't a misspelling you just used the wrong word...

[DatAsh]

1. Scottie Pippen
2. Lebron James
3. Michael Jordan
4. Gary Payton
5. Ron Artest
6. Bruce Bowen
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Sidney Moncrief
9. Dennis Johnson
10. Michael Cooper

I have Pippen/Lebron up there because they are the most versatile perimeter defenders in NBA history aka. could efficiently defend or even shut down up to 4 positions, even some centers...

But as far as defending strictly the perimeter / defending strictly a perimeter player.... my list might change a bit

If you value versatility high enough to rank Lebron as the second best perimeter of all time, above 2-3 guys that not only peaked higher than him(defensively), but maintained that level for 5x as long as Lebron has, then you really should have Rodman at #1, and both Russell and Hakeem should be above Lebron as well(both of those guys could guard guards better than Lebron can guard centers).

One year of great defense(11-12) doesn't make you one of the all time defensive greats, just like one great year(02-03) doesn't make Tracy McGrady one of the all time greats.

[DatAsh]

I think Lebron has a case over Jordan as a defender. I would probably take Jordan over Lebron for one playoff series and for one game but over a course of a season I am inclined to take Lebron. Jordan just wasn't as consistent as Lebron was defensively or Pippen for that matter but then again he was only less consistent than Pippen because Pippen's role on offense wasn't as big as Jordan's. Lebron's role offensively however was just as big as Jordan's, maybe even bigger.

Jordan needs exterior motivation in order to really play his best defense.

If a player is talking trash about Michael during a game or before a playoff series, if the media was criticizing his defense, or if a player is being compared to him and being ranked as good as him (Drexler in '92), then I would take Jordan's defense over anyone because during those situations he is without a doubt the greatest perimeter defender that has ever played.

The difference between Jordan and Lebron is that Lebron doesn't need that type of motivation to play that great of defense every night. He just plays his defense and plays hard on defense every night regardless of whether or not people are trash talking about him.

Jordan's issue with defense was consistency so over 82 games or 82 games + the post-season, I'm not sure if it was any better than LeBron's.

I don't think Lebron is the greatest perimeter defender of all-time but he probably has a case for like top 3 and better than Jordan's as well. Just my two cents and what I've heard others say about this topic.

You're assessment of Lebron being a more motivated and consistent defender than Jordan is off.

Jordan was perhaps the most relentlessly consistent defender I've ever seen from 88-93. That was his biggest strength. He wasn't nearly as consistent from 96-98, but I think that had more to do with fatigue than a loss mental commitment.


As for my top 10

1. Scottie Pippen
2. Dennis Rodman

3. Michael Jordan
4. Sidney Moncrief
5. Gary Payton


6. Bobby Jones
7. Walt Frazier

8. Bruce Bowen
9. Dave DeBusschere
10. Michael Cooper

gaps there for emphasis.

I think a lot of you are underrating just how damn good Dennis Rodman was in his Piston's days. Versatility is unquestionably his greatest strength, but Rodman was primarily a perimeter stopper for the Pistons and easily one of the best there's ever been. His perimeter defense is what earned him his DPOYs in my opinion.

Leaving Kobe off was tough, he had some really good years from 00-03, and perhaps his best year, 08 was among the best, but I just couldn't justify putting him over Michael Cooper who won a defensive player of the year and was ridiculously consistent on the defensive end.

Dennis Johnson and Alvin Robertson deserve honorable mentions as well, but like Kobe they just fall victim to stiff competition.

Lebron is certainly in the top 10(maybe top 6-7) if we're just counting 1 year peak, but he needs to do it for more than just 1 year to have a case for the top 10.

[DatAsh]

We get it, Jordan is perfect. Sheesh.

We get it, you don't like Jordan being ranked above your favorite players. Sheesh

[fpliii]

You're assessment of Lebron being a more motivated and consistent defender than Jordan is off.

Jordan was perhaps the most relentlessly consistent defender I've ever seen from 88-93. That was his biggest strength. He wasn't nearly as consistent from 96-98, but I think that had more to do with fatigue than a loss mental commitment.


As for my top 10

1. Scottie Pippen
2. Dennis Rodman

3. Michael Jordan
4. Sidney Moncrief
5. Gary Payton


6. Bobby Jones
7. Walt Frazier

8. Bruce Bowen
9. Dave DeBusschere
10. Michael Cooper

gaps there for emphasis.

I think a lot of you are underrating just how damn good Dennis Rodman was in his Piston's days. Versatility is unquestionably his greatest strength, but Rodman was primarily a perimeter stopper for the Pistons and easily one of the best there's ever been. His perimeter defense is what earned him his DPOYs in my opinion.

Leaving Kobe off was tough, he had some really good years from 00-03, and perhaps his best year, 08 was among the best, but I just couldn't justify putting him over Michael Cooper who won a defensive player of the year and was ridiculously consistent on the defensive end.

Dennis Johnson and Alvin Robertson deserve honorable mentions as well, but like Kobe they just fall victim to stiff competition.

Lebron is certainly in the top 10(maybe top 6-7) if we're just counting 1 year peak, but he needs to do it for more than just 1 year to have a case for the top 10.

no KC Jones and Jerry West?

[fsvr54]

Joe Dumars is so ****ing underrated. Jordan said he was the toughest defender he played against.

[DatAsh]

no KC Jones and Jerry West?

Damn, completely forgot about Jerry West, though I wouldn't have him in my top 10 anyway.

I really considered KC Jones, I guess I should have said something about him in the honorable mentions. I thought about Joe Dumars and several others as well. It's tough coming up with a top 10 like this.

I've been really obsessed with defense recently. As such, I've been watching a ton of old footage, reading a bunch, and changing my mind quite a bit. Needless to say, my list has changed quite drastically over the last few weeks. I don't think as highly of West as I used to(though I still consider him a great defender).

[RaininTwos]

We get it, you don't like Jordan being ranked above your favorite players. Sheesh
You dont even know my favorite players:oldlol:

Here you are assuming shit once again...and looking dumb.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I mean no disrespect to Lebron , i think his defense has developed well and one day he might be able to make this list but right now he needs to show me he's clearly better than peak Battier and Kirilenko to get some consideration, something he hasn't done just yet.

[DatAsh]

You dont even know my favorite players:oldlol:

Here you are assuming shit once again...and looking dumb.


I know that you make a habbit of popping in any thread where Jordan is mentioned as doing something better than Lebron or Kobe and start crying about Jordan being overrated.

By the way, I actually agree that Jordan is overrated, but saying Jordan is a better defender than Lebron or Kobe isn't overrating him, it's called being un-biased.

[RaininTwos]

I know that you make a habbit of popping in any thread where Jordan is mentioned as doing something better than Lebron or Kobe and start crying about Jordan being overrated.

By the way, I actually agree that Jordan is overrated, but saying Jordan is a better defender than Lebron or Kobe isn't overrating him, it's called being un-biased.

I've been on site over 4 years and you are going off a sample size of a couple weeks?

Stop being dumb already, you don't know why I am doing anything. It had nothing to do with Kobe or Lebron.

[DatAsh]

you don't know why I am doing anything.

That's true, but I can make a pretty good guess by observing your posting habits.

[imdaman99]

walt clyde frazier baby :bowdown:

too bad i never saw him play live

[RaininTwos]

That's true, but I can make a pretty good guess by observing your posting habits.
:coleman:

prepare to be surprised.

[1987_Lakers]

As for my top 10

1. Scottie Pippen
2. Dennis Rodman

3. Michael Jordan
4. Sidney Moncrief
5. Gary Payton


6. Bobby Jones
7. Walt Frazier

8. Bruce Bowen
9. Dave DeBusschere
10. Michael Cooper


Very nice list, I would probably put DJ in there and take off DeBusschere. I would also give some consideration to Ron Artest.

[eliteballer]

Anyone who doesnt mention Havlicek should basically resign from the boards because you dont know squat.

[DatAsh]

:coleman:

prepare to be surprised.

I hope I am. You used to be one of the better posters on here.

[jlauber]

I have to get to bed, but I just wanted to acknowledge this topic before I do so. I somehow overlooked not only the subject, but the poster, as well (he has become one of my favorite posters on this site...which may harm his reputation more then help.) Had I paid attention to at least the latter, I would have responded sooner. I will take some time tomorrow and post my "two cents."