Better defender - Jordan vs. Lebron?

[StateOfMind12]

Spin off from the top 10 perimeter defenders of all-time thread.

Who do you guys think was the better defender, Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James? Simple question, would like in-depth answers though.

[Scholar]

Be prepared for 300 posts of nonsense in 5... 4... 3... 2...

[BabyBull]

You ask but don't even give your own input... k.

[StateOfMind12]

You ask but don't even give your own input... k.
I did in the other thread, here is the copy and paste but I am still quite indecisive, hence why I made the thread.

What would be the point of making a thread/comparison if I already knew the answer and I was confident in the answer?


I think Lebron has a case over Jordan as a defender. I would probably take Jordan over Lebron for one playoff series and for one game but over a course of a season I am inclined to take Lebron. Jordan just wasn't as consistent as Lebron was defensively or Pippen for that matter but then again he was only less consistent than Pippen because Pippen's role on offense wasn't as big as Jordan's. Lebron's role offensively however was just as big as Jordan's, maybe even bigger.

Jordan needs exterior motivation in order to really play his best defense.

If a player is talking trash about Michael during a game or before a playoff series, if the media was criticizing his defense, or if a player is being compared to him and being ranked as good as him (Drexler in '92), then I would take Jordan's defense over anyone because during those situations he is without a doubt the greatest perimeter defender that has ever played.

The difference between Jordan and Lebron is that Lebron doesn't need that type of motivation to play that great of defense every night. He just plays his defense and plays hard on defense every night regardless of whether or not people are trash talking about him.

Jordan's issue with defense was consistency so over 82 games or 82 games + the post-season, I'm not sure if it was any better than LeBron's.

I don't think Lebron is the greatest perimeter defender of all-time but he probably has a case for like top 3 and better than Jordan's as well. Just my two cents and what I've heard others say about this topic.

[RIP CITY]

No need for detailed answers, the answer is completely unquestionable and obvious to pretty much anyone who's seen both play that's not a delusional LeBron stan.

[BabyBull]

I did in the other thread, here is the copy and paste but I am still quite indecisive, hence why I made the thread.

What would be the point of making a thread/comparison if I already knew the answer and I was confident in the answer?
whats with the finals essay ?

I still don't have a clear idea on who you think is the better defender, and that's worrisome to me. LeBron or Jordan ?

[LakersReign]

No need for detailed answers, the answer is completely unquestionable and obvious to pretty much anyone who's seen both play that's not a delusional LeBron stan.

Exactly. Jordan never got outplayed by a role player on the opposing team during a Finals.

[WockaVodka]

MJ was the better defender but I expect the OP to get a lot of shit for making this thread, not because it is a bad comparison but because MJ is the most beloved on this site and LBJ is the most hated.

I saw this comparison on another site and it was actually a close comparison but then again the LBJ hate is not as big as it is over here.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

MJ was the better defender but I expect the OP to get a lot of shit for making this thread, not because it is a bad comparison but because MJ is the most beloved on this site and LBJ is the most hated.

I saw this comparison on another site and it was actually a close comparison but then again the LBJ hate is not as big as it is over here.
This.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Lebron may have not peaked as a defender yet either.

[LONGTIME]

Lebron may have not peaked as a defender yet either.

His hairline has.

[Indian guy]

MJ's the better defender, both man-to-man and as a help-defender. More consistent too in his effort. But none of it matters. Individual perimeter D has too insignificant an impact on the game. Bulls replaced MJ with Pete Myers and didn't miss a beat defensively in '94 and '95. Miami's defensive ranking in '11 and '12 remained unchanged from 2010 after acquiring LeBron. Defense is mostly coaching and effort, and any motivated scrub can pretty much match the impact of a 'star' perimeter defender.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Spin off from the top 10 perimeter defenders of all-time thread.

Who do you guys think was the better defender, Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James? Simple question, would like in-depth answers though.
:facepalm
Thats it. You are officially a knucklehead.

[EllisGW]

get back to me when mj can guard 1 through 5

[ripthekik]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[RRR3]

Exactly. Jordan never got outplayed by a role player on the opposing team during a Finals.
completely irrelevant to the discussion.

[EllisGW]

what does mj do better than lebron on defense that is significant ?

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

what does mj do better than lebron on defense that is significant ?
He doesn't get beat off the dribble by 6'11" players.

[EllisGW]

He doesn't get beat off the dribble by 6'11" players.

what are you talking about?

Jordan does not even guard 6'11 players.

[ripthekik]

Exactly. Jordan never got outplayed by a role player on the opposing team during a Finals.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[WockaVodka]

He doesn't get beat off the dribble by 6'11" players.
You don't think hand-checks have anything to do with it? It's easier to score with no hand-checks and it's also harder to defend with no hand-checks.

[AlphaWolf24]

You don't think hand-checks have anything to do with it? It's easier to score with no hand-checks and it's also harder to defend with no hand-checks.


who says no one hand checks??....they still play defense with a fore arm or arm slightly extended.

U think in the 80's players were allowed to push you when you started your dribble??...

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan was not as consistent a defender as Lebron? :oldlol:

[RIP CITY]

get back to me when mj can guard 1 through 5

Get back to me when LeBron can. This myth that LeBron can guard PF's and C's is ridiculous. LeBron James can not guard PF's and C's on any remotely consistent basis. A few games here and there against offensively inept players at the PF/C position, maybe but if you ran LeBron out there against PF's and C's for a full season he would get raped. It's the most ridiculous notion I've ever heard. He couldn't guard PG's for 82 games either without getting lit up half the time. He can guard 1 through 5 for moments, a few minutes here or there or against guys who are so bad offensively that it's already basically 4 on 5. He can't guard these type of players on any kind of consistent basis. I've seen Michael Jordan in the post with Patrick Ewing and embarrassingly block his shot with such force it started an easy fastbreak, but Jordan, like LeBron can not guard a Center for 48 minutes and be effective.

LeBron has become a great defender in the last 2 or 3 seasons, before that he was not a great defender by any means. He's improved his defense alot and I give him all the credit in the world for doing so. But he's still not one of the greatest defensive players ever, it's just baffling to me how all of the sudden he's viewed as playing Scottie Pippen or Michael Jordan level defense. He's a great defender but he's not that great. There are a slew of guys that weren't as good of defenders as Jordan that are better defenders than LeBron. This has nothing to do with people idolizing MJ and hating LeBron, it's people putting LeBron's defense on a pedestal is doesn't belong on. You want to call him the greatest offensive player of All-Time, I can see that argument being made, I don't agree but at least there is something to it. His defense is not on that level.

[OldSchoolBBall]

what does mj do better than lebron on defense that is significant ?

Far better team/help defender. More disruptive defender. Better at containing penetration. Better rotations on the perimeter. Better hands. Better pressurer of the ball. Better fastbreak defender overall.

[LikeABosh]

People loved to talk about the hand checking rule, saying how Jordan would score 40+ per game in todays NBA due to the rules, but what about the defensive end? You don't think Jordan benefited from the hand checking on defense?

[Ikill]

MJ was the better defender but I expect the OP to get a lot of shit for making this thread, not because it is a bad comparison but because MJ is the most beloved on this site and LBJ is the most hated.

I saw this comparison on another site and it was actually a close comparison but then again the LBJ hate is not as big as it is over here.
LIES!

[LebronairJAMES]

Spin off from the top 10 perimeter defenders of all-time thread.

Who do you guys think was the better defender, Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James? Simple question, would like in-depth answers though.
op your a ****en ******


















































































































and its JORDAN :coleman:

[Mach_3]

People loved to talk about the hand checking rule, saying how Jordan would score 40+ per game in todays NBA due to the rules, but what about the defensive end? You don't think Jordan benefited from the hand checking on defense?


This is true, every player from back then benefited as well from the hand checking rules allowing them to play scrappier D. However even with that weighted in Jordan imo was a superior defender due to his quickness, hand speed, IQ, ability to read and react to the defenders and the great defensive footwork he showed

[LikeABosh]

This is true, every player from back then benefited as well from the hand checking rules allowing them to play scrappier D. However even with that weighted in Jordan imo was a superior defender due to his quickness, hand speed, IQ, ability to read and react to the defenders and the great defensive footwork he showed
I agree, but I think it's closer than people think. Lebron is alot bigger and stronger, and more versatile. In one game he'll go from guarding Rondo, to Pierce, to Brandon Bass, to Garnett.

[Mach_3]

I agree, but I think it's closer than people think. Lebron is alot bigger and stronger, and more versatile. In one game he'll go from guarding Rondo, to Pierce, to Brandon Bass, to Garnett.

While he may be more versatile, imo he's in no way a better cover for PG/SG or SF than Jordan was. I just can't think of any part of the defensive game that Lebron was better than Jordan was.

But i respect your opinion nonetheless

[EllisGW]

While he may be more versatile, imo he's in no way a better cover for PG/SG or SF than Jordan was. I just can't think of any part of the defensive game that Lebron was better than Jordan was.

But i respect your opinion nonetheless

half of jordan's career he was not even the second best defender on his team

people overrate his defensive by far. Phil jackson was scared to even put jordan on magic lol

[DatAsh]

If we're strictly talking absolute peak, I'd say it's somewhat close, but I'd still give Jordan the edge. It's also an unknown at this point and time whether or not Lebron has actually peaked. This might be a more valid comparison a few years down the road.

In terms of what they actually did on court.

Jordan was easily the better man to man iso defender. He was laterally a bit quicker than Lebron and better at anticipating where his man was going and adjusting his feet and body accordingly. He was also very skilled with his hands. Ball handlers had to be very cautious and protect the ball at all times when Jordan was on the. This is where Jordan's biggest and most significant edge is defensively in my opinion.

Jordan also clearly trumps Lebron with his off the ball defense. Watch the way he relentlessly fights around screens(often to the point of fouling the screener :D ). Watch the way he tirelessly battles his man inside the post to keep him from getting the ball(often times nearly starting a fight). Lebron isn't a bad off the ball defender, he does stay with his man, he does tend to give the appropriate amount of space depending on who he's guarding, he doesn't give up after getting screened, in fact, he does most things right, he just doesn't have the same tenacity that Jordan had. That viscous and relentless tenacity also made Jordan the better full court trap and press defender (he and Scottie together were an absolute nightmare).

Help defense is close. Lebron, because of his size and strength is more capable of helping down low in the post against the big guys than Jordan was. He can use his size to help some of the smaller players on his team who maybe get caught down low off of an unfortunate switch and take over when need arises. Where Jordan has him beat, and why I'd still give Jordan the edge here, is timing, and a lot of that comes from his superior defensive intelligence.

Jordan and Pippen were among the smartest players ever when it comes to general defensive knowledge. They'd literally spend hours after the rest of the team had gone home, practicing defense and coming up with new defensive tricks and strategies to help their team win. Both of them had an impeccable sense of where everyone on their team should be at all times, when and how to help, who to help off of, who not to help off of, where the guy with the ball was going, how to make him go somewhere else, I could go on, but you get the picture. Both were also masters of thievery and perhaps the two best ball thieves of all time(Considering they both led the league in steals several times without sacrificing defense). They both possessed an incredibly keen, almost unnatural ability to pick up on when a player lost focus, even for just an instant, and how to capitalize on that loss of focus.

Where Lebron has a fairly significant edge, and makes up a ton of ground for his shortcoming elsewhere is his defensive versatility. I think people tend to underrate just how important versatility is as an aspect of defense. For one, it allows your team more freedom with various rosters and lineups(play small and put Lebron on their PF, or play big and have Lebron guard one of their wing players). Two, it mitigates the effects of some of those necessary but awful switches that tend to leave a lot of players up shit creek and without a paddle. Look at the 91 finals, Jordan was clearly the best defender on his team at that particular point in time, yet Scottie's superior versatility made him the better defender for that particular match up. Magic's size was obviously bothering Jordan, and although Scottie could have helped, the other options were even worse, so pick your poison. Scottie and Lebron might have actually been better in a situation like that.

Overall, peak vs peak, I'm going with Jordan at this point, but who knows how the rest of Lebron's career will actually pan out.

In an all time sense, you have to realize that Jordan matched and probably surpassed the level that Lebron found this last year, and kept up that level for 5 years( and with 4 or so more years on par with Lebron's 10-11 season). Because of that, Lebron's all time case kind of goes down the drain, at least for the time being. To be among the all time defensive greats, it's not enough to do it for just one season.


Also, I'm not sure why you say Jordan lacked consistency. I'd even venture to say the exact opposite is true. Jordan was honestly one of the few guys I can think of off the top of my head that really did bring it (offensively and defensively), 100%, every single night. His will and drive is part of what made him so great.

Good topic btw, though I doubt most will take it seriously.

[Dictator]

His hairline has.

http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu340/killaplaya247/lebronface.png

[Miserio]

get back to me when mj can guard 1 through 5
91 finals. Guarded Magic Johnson and Vlade Divac.

[DatAsh]

half of jordan's career he was not even the second best defender on his team

people overrate his defensive by far. Phil jackson was scared to even put jordan on magic lol

uhh, when exactly are you talking about? He was easily the best defender on his team from 86-92, arguably the best in 93(though I'd go with Pippen here), and most people considered him a better defender than Rodman for the second three peat.

Unless you want to count his rookie season and the season where he only played 18 games. Hell, even in his rookie season he was probably the best defensive player on his team.

My guess is you that your less than twenty years old and never actually saw him play. Just a hunch though :rolleyes:

[NumberSix]

They played under completely different defensive rules. It's not even possible to compare.

[Asukal]

half of jordan's career he was not even the second best defender on his team

people overrate his defensive by far. Phil jackson was scared to even put jordan on magic lol

:biggums:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Sarcastic]

They played under completely different defensive rules. It's not even possible to compare.

Of course it is. Jordan was better.

[scandisk_]

can't go wrong with both :confusedshrug:

[Mach_3]

half of jordan's career he was not even the second best defender on his team

people overrate his defensive by far. Phil jackson was scared to even put jordan on magic lol

http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/maximum-trolling.jpg

[Linspired]

bron being more versatile doesn't change the fact that MJ usually dominated whoever he was guarding that night.

versatility is great, but it shouldn't be a major factor in this debate. MJ doesn't get to guard charles, malone and etc. we won't know how he would've faired against bigger stronger guys. maybe he would've been abused or maybe he would've done pretty good job. but why should he guard 4 or 5s? that's retarded. bron being able to guard multiple position only means he played for a flawed team.

[TheNaturalWR]

get back to me when mj can guard 1 through 5

Get back to me when LeBron can.

[Linspired]

get back to me when mj can guard 1 through 5


Magic can play all 5 positions offensively if he was asked to play. when he did asked to play a center, he did something so incredible that it will probably be never repeated.


but that doesn't mean he is better offensive player than Jordan

[LakersReign]

completely irrelevant to the discussion.

You(rrr3) know what the words irrelevant and discussion really mean like you know what the words transitive property really means. Stop embarrassing yourselfhttp://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/stephen-a-smith-laugh.gif

[Linspired]

jordan can't guard 7ft centers.

here is the proof
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBOyRGHkPL0

:roll:

[CAstill]

:applause:
Get back to me when LeBron can. This myth that LeBron can guard PF's and C's is ridiculous. LeBron James can not guard PF's and C's on any remotely consistent basis. A few games here and there against offensively inept players at the PF/C position, maybe but if you ran LeBron out there against PF's and C's for a full season he would get raped. It's the most ridiculous notion I've ever heard. He couldn't guard PG's for 82 games either without getting lit up half the time. He can guard 1 through 5 for moments, a few minutes here or there or against guys who are so bad offensively that it's already basically 4 on 5. He can't guard these type of players on any kind of consistent basis. I've seen Michael Jordan in the post with Patrick Ewing and embarrassingly block his shot with such force it started an easy fastbreak, but Jordan, like LeBron can not guard a Center for 48 minutes and be effective.

LeBron has become a great defender in the last 2 or 3 seasons, before that he was not a great defender by any means. He's improved his defense alot and I give him all the credit in the world for doing so. But he's still not one of the greatest defensive players ever, it's just baffling to me how all of the sudden he's viewed as playing Scottie Pippen or Michael Jordan level defense. He's a great defender but he's not that great. There are a slew of guys that weren't as good of defenders as Jordan that are better defenders than LeBron. This has nothing to do with people idolizing MJ and hating LeBron, it's people putting LeBron's defense on a pedestal is doesn't belong on. You want to call him the greatest offensive player of All-Time, I can see that argument being made, I don't agree but at least there is something to it. His defense is not on that level.

:applause: :applause:

The truth!

[BlackVVaves]

Their man defense is close, but Jordan still wins. Jordan was just quicker with his hands; he averaged 3 steals per game 5 or 6 times in his career, and would create a number of deflections from his on-ball defense.

Jordan was the better and more consistent help defender, much less closer than comparing he and Lebron's man defense.

Lebron was sensational this year, outside of scattered moments where he deviated in critical moments, but I think some people are letting his awe-inspiring performance this year cloud their judgement when comparing him to greats before him.

(The same is done in regards to Kobe, Durant ect. Still doesn't make it right.)

[Tenchi Ryu]

Yea, that vastly overrated myth of Lebron being able to guard PFs and Cs is just completely over-exaggerated. He might switch up the man-to-man play and guard the frontcourt for a few possessions, but its not like he's spending significant time guarding them. Gasol was pretty much getting anything he wanted over Lebron during that exhibition game.

[plowking]

Yea, that vastly overrated myth of Lebron being able to guard PFs and Cs is just completely over-exaggerated. He might switch up the man-to-man play and guard the frontcourt for a few possessions, but its not like he's spending significant time guarding them. Gasol was pretty much getting anything he wanted over Lebron during that exhibition game.

How'd he guard him in the non exhibition game that mattered during the season?

Anyone care to pull up the video?

[andgar923]

I actually think Bron's one on one defense is average. He is good on the weak side due to his athleticism, but still not better than MJ on that dept either.

MJ was simply 'smarter', craftier. The tricks and the IQ that MJ had as a 3rd year player, Bron will obtain in 2 years or so... yeah... that's how advanced MJ was in the IQ dept. MJ knew the angles much better, he knew positioning, timing, how to read the defense, how to use 'tricks' to gain the advantage and not get caught, he knew how to use his teammates, he knew when and how to defend certain players, how to use his stamina, you rarely saw MJ commit a dumb foul, you rarely saw MJ get beat due to a mistake. And those are just the IQ and craft skills, not including the desire, focus, and consistency.

Then we can get into the physical aspects, some in which Bron can match, others Bron may have the edge, and others MJ takes it. But it also comes down to knowing how to use those athletic gifts for their advantage. Because the best defenders of all time aren't necesarily the best athletes, and the best athletes tend to be the worst defenders.

[Tenchi Ryu]

How'd he guard him in the non exhibition game that mattered during the season?

Anyone care to pull up the video?
That game against LA was a prime example. Lebron was gaurding Gasol, but he was STILL scoring. Lebron made it a little harder, but its not like he shut him down.

Same with KG in the ECF. Lebron could not stop KG at all.

[WockaVodka]

Lebron can guard the stretch 4s for an entire game but I don't think he is capable of guarding skilled post up 4s for an entire game. He can defend the Ryan Anderson's and maybe even the Dirk Nowitzki's but not the LaMarcus Aldridge's and the Kevin Love's

[Tenchi Ryu]

Lebron can guard the stretch 4s for an entire game but I don't think he is capable of guarding skilled post up 4s for an entire game. He can defend the Ryan Anderson's and maybe even the Dirk Nowitzki's but not the LaMarcus Aldridge's and the Kevin Love's
And there is nothing wrong with that. Lebron can guard the perimeter very well and guard weaker big men. That in itself is an amazing feat. Its when you here the same old "Leborn can guard 1-5" stan comments when it gets overblown.

NOBODY can gaurd 1-5.

[WockaVodka]

And there is nothing wrong with that. Lebron can guard the perimeter very well and guard weaker big men. That in itself is an amazing feat. Its when you here the same old "Leborn can guard 1-5" stan comments when it gets overblown.

NOBODY can gaurd 1-5.
Pistons Rodman can, probably the only player that could guard Jordan and Shaq.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Pistons Rodman can, probably the only player that could guard Jordan and Shaq.
Hmm, that's a good point to bring up Rodman. Maybe he could, even an older Rodman stuck excellent D against Karl Malone's tank ass.

[Gifted Mind]

Michael Jordan

[andgar923]

Also in regards to the eras in which they played in...

I will agree that handchecking and physical play is an aid and an advantage. Having said that, today's stagnant style of game takes away most of the issues defenders face, such as players coming off screens. It makes it easier for a 'superstar' to guard a player in today's era. Can you imagine Bron having to guard Reggie? Hornaceck? he wouldn't be able to maintain the same consistency and level of stamina. It is actually easier to just give Rose space and force him to shoot 3pt shots off a one on one play, then it is to chase Hornacek through an American Gladiator-like gauntlet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97MlMbPgEzs) of screens for an entire game.

And shall we forget how MJ has more memorable defensive moments than most people have offensive ones?

MJ has won multiple games and has turned the outcome of a game with his defense more than probably any defender in history (yeah... I'ma go out in the limb and say DEFENDER not just perimeter). His defense wasn't only limited to the perimeter either. He was strong enough and good enough to deny the entry pass and was a nightmare on the weak side as a help defender, more so than Bron.

[chazzy]

The RG flip flopping is getting better
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253998

[plowking]

That game against LA was a prime example. Lebron was gaurding Gasol, but he was STILL scoring. Lebron made it a little harder, but its not like he shut him down.

Same with KG in the ECF. Lebron could not stop KG at all.

Who did stop KG during that run? He did have his worst series numbers wise against us though compared to the other two.
Its hard to defend with such a small frontcourt like we had anyway. No one completely guards any player one on one. Boston found it easy to loop the ball over the top and flush everyone else out of the key so Garnett could have easy layups. Bron had to front him considering Boston were a hell of a lot taller than us. Our strategy at that point had to be to front him and try and deny the ball in front of the defender.

And no, Gasol was not STILL scoring. He only got 10 shots off that game, and scored 11 points. That is great ball denial, and great defense.

[plowking]

Also in regards to the eras in which they played in...

I will agree that handchecking and physical play is an aid and an advantage. Having said that, today's stagnant style of game takes away most of the issues defenders face, such as players coming off screens. It makes it easier for a 'superstar' to guard a player in today's era. Can you imagine Bron having to guard Reggie? Hornaceck? he wouldn't be able to maintain the same consistency and level of stamina. It is actually easier to just give Rose space and force him to shoot 3pt shots off a one on one play, then it is to chase Hornacek through an American Gladiator-like gauntlet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97MlMbPgEzs) of screens for an entire game.

And shall we forget how MJ has more memorable defensive moments than most people have offensive ones?

MJ has won multiple games and has turned the outcome of a game with his defense more than probably any defender in history (yeah... I'ma go out in the limb and say DEFENDER not just perimeter). His defense wasn't only limited to the perimeter either. He was strong enough and good enough to deny the entry pass and was a nightmare on the weak side as a help defender, more so than Bron.

Okay, so then it was easier to score for superstars in the 80's and 90's? I don't understand how you want it both ways.

Aren't you the poster that said 50 year old MJ could beat prime Lebron in one on one? lol...

[LakersReign]

The RG flip flopping is getting better
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253998

The hypocritical, bi-polar, "I have a sock puppet account on here to bandwagon EVERY popular team NOT named Lakers" lunatic(rg/idefends/stateofmind/stateofthunder(realgm) was bound to show his true colors eventually. He's over in this thread: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273043 now talking bout the Bulls are supposedly "his team.":facepalm

[andgar923]

Okay, so then it was easier to score for superstars in the 80's and 90's? I don't understand how you want it both ways.

Not for somebody like Mj that drew constant double and triple teams. Besides, his game didn't rely on mostly coming off screens. Hand checking allowed defenders to aid them, to control the offensive player and to help slow them down. Today's defenders do have it harder in that they can't be as aggressive, but then you have offensive players that basically bail out the defender by settling for dumb shots.

[andgar923]

Aren't you the poster that said 50 year old MJ could beat prime Lebron in one on one? lol...

Way to take shit out of context.

[PickernRoller]

The RG flip flopping is getting better
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253998

http://i47.tinypic.com/2uen0px.png

[plowking]

Not for somebody like Mj that drew constant double and triple teams. Besides, his game didn't rely on mostly coming off screens. Hand checking allowed defenders to aid them, to control the offensive player and to help slow them down. Today's defenders do have it harder in that they can't be as aggressive, but then you have offensive players that basically bail out the defender by settling for dumb shots.

I'm not going to have this discussion again, but players didn't get dumber and have a committee in which they all agreed to take stupid jump shots.
You really think the game is dumbed down now? With more years of learning the game you think the coaches have just stopped finding schemes to try and crack defenses, and they haven't told their players to smarten up and take the right shots? No. The players take the shots they are given. Today's league is much more team oriented on defense in that there is a lot more help coming over, and a lot less one on one basketball.

Triple team... This seriously needs to stop. I've seen two players in my entire time of watching basketball get triple teamed. One was watching old games of Moses Malone. I can't remember which series it was exactly... And the other Dwyane Wade against the Celtics in the playoffs in 09 where he would get trapped at half court just bringing the ball up. It was the most disrespectful defense I've ever seen played on a superstars supporting cast.


Way to take shit out of context.

Lets just say your view of the world is a little skewed when it comes to anything Jordan related. Its not out of context, those were your words. You try to come off as if you're analyzing every little detail in your posts but you really say a whole lot of nothing and come to the conclusion that Jordan is always the best, at just about everything.

[andgar923]

I'm not going to have this discussion again, but players didn't get dumber and have a committee in which they all agreed to take stupid jump shots.
You really think the game is dumbed down now? With more years of learning the game you think the coaches have just stopped finding schemes to try and crack defenses, and they haven't told their players to smarten up and take the right shots? No. The players take the shots they are given. Today's league is much more team oriented on defense in that there is a lot more help coming over, and a lot less one on one basketball.

Triple team... This seriously needs to stop. I've seen two players in my entire time of watching basketball get triple teamed. One was watching old games of Moses Malone. I can't remember which series it was exactly... And the other Dwyane Wade against the Celtics in the playoffs in 09 where he would get trapped at half court just bringing the ball up. It was the most disrespectful defense I've ever seen played on a superstars supporting cast.



Lets just say your view of the world is a little skewed when it comes to anything Jordan related. Its not out of context, those were your words. You try to come off as if you're analyzing every little detail in your posts but you really say a whole lot of nothing and come to the conclusion that Jordan is always the best, at just about everything.

YES the game is dumbed down because the players are dumber. Not that hard to grasp.

Yeah... those are my words, but you are taking them out of context. Go back and re-read my original statement... then we can continue to talk.

[plowking]

YES the game is dumbed down because the players are dumber. Not that hard to grasp.

Yeah... those are my words, but you are taking them out of context. Go back and re-read my original statement... then we can continue to talk.

Of course, the game is dumber now after more time to analyze the game, work on player movements, techniques, training, etc.
The game is smarter and more efficient than it has ever been.

[andgar923]

Of course, the game is dumber now after more time to analyze the game, work on player movements, techniques, training, etc.
The game is smarter and more efficient than it has ever been.

Not really.

Players are dumber, they settle for dumber shots, they force shit more, no ball movement, no off the ball play, bad IQ, etc.etc.

Bron the best player in the league today, can't do basic shit that a rookie MJ could do, how is that 'better'?

Wade can only go to his left and it's what... his 9th season?
Kobe is said to be one of the smartest players of his era, yet even his fans criticize him for his idiotic shots and most people criticize him for his dumb mistakes. He makes rookie mistakes at times, and he's player well over a dozen seasons.

Bron is just now accepting that posting up is actually a good thing. And he still isn't doing it as often, even tho he has the advantage and can control the game with his elementary and very basic post up game. That's not dumb?

Westbrook is considered one of the best pg's and he's as dumb as it gets.
Blake is considered a f*ckin God and he's a moron that still doesn't know what a pick and roll is.

I can go on and on... and these are the top players in the league, or players that are Olympians. Do you want me to get into the rest of the Olympians? or shall I start analyzing the other players as well?

Oh wait.... you'd probably complain about that as well.

[MisterAmazing]

get back to me when mj can guard 1 through 5

get back to me when there are actually quality 4s and 5s for Lebron to guard.

You think he is capable of guarding legitimate big men like Kemp, Malone, Hakeem, Shaq, Admiral, etc.? Please...

[Dictator]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2uen0px.png


DAMN!!! :lol

[andgar923]

I'm not going to have this discussion again, but players didn't get dumber and have a committee in which they all agreed to take stupid jump shots.
You really think the game is dumbed down now? With more years of learning the game you think the coaches have just stopped finding schemes to try and crack defenses, and they haven't told their players to smarten up and take the right shots? No. The players take the shots they are given. Today's league is much more team oriented on defense in that there is a lot more help coming over, and a lot less one on one basketball.

Triple team... This seriously needs to stop. I've seen two players in my entire time of watching basketball get triple teamed. One was watching old games of Moses Malone. I can't remember which series it was exactly... And the other Dwyane Wade against the Celtics in the playoffs in 09 where he would get trapped at half court just bringing the ball up. It was the most disrespectful defense I've ever seen played on a superstars supporting cast.



Lets just say your view of the world is a little skewed when it comes to anything Jordan related. Its not out of context, those were your words. You try to come off as if you're analyzing every little detail in your posts but you really say a whole lot of nothing and come to the conclusion that Jordan is always the best, at just about everything.

It makes sense now.

I won't waste my time... carry on.

[CAstill]

Spin off from the top 10 perimeter defenders of all-time thread.

Who do you guys think was the better defender, Michael Jordan vs. LeBron James? Simple question, would like in-depth answers though.

Jordan was better. His trash talk alone caused more
defensive damage then lebron's versatility.
Jordan could take over a game defensively.
Lebron is just a big strong body that can be effective.
His help D is impressive and at sometimes great.
but Jordan was a true ball hawk. Constantly creating
turnovers and coming down the other end and turning it to points.
He played the lanes better than bron. He anticipated players moves better.
He could trap better. He played defensive decoy better. Smarter with fouls.
Jordan was just a lot better.

[DatAsh]

Triple team... This seriously needs to stop. I've seen two players in my entire time of watching basketball get triple teamed.


Huh? :biggums:

How long have you been watching basketball?

[EllisGW]

[QUOTE=DatAsh]uhh, when exactly are you talking about? He was easily the best defender on his team from 86-92, arguably the best in 93(though I'd go with Pippen here), and most people considered him a better defender than Rodman for the second three peat.

Unless you want to count his rookie season and the season where he only played 18 games. Hell, even in his rookie season he was probably the best defensive player on his team.

My guess is you that your less than twenty years old and never actually saw him play. Just a hunch though :rolleyes:[/QUOTE

jordan was never a better defender than pippen

what the hell are you talking about

[EllisGW]

91 finals. Guarded Magic Johnson and Vlade Divac.

pippen was the major one bud

[Dragonyeuw]

get back to me when mj can guard 1 through 5

Put Lebron on Bynum or Howard for a game and see how that goes. Lebron at best can do spot duty on offensively challenged power forwards and center. This myth that Lebron can defend every player in the NBA needs to die a quick, painful death.

[guy]

I'm not going to have this discussion again, but players didn't get dumber and have a committee in which they all agreed to take stupid jump shots.
You really think the game is dumbed down now? With more years of learning the game you think the coaches have just stopped finding schemes to try and crack defenses, and they haven't told their players to smarten up and take the right shots? No. The players take the shots they are given. Today's league is much more team oriented on defense in that there is a lot more help coming over, and a lot less one on one basketball.


Its really not that far-fetched to say players aren't as smart today when so many either came straight out of HS or were one and done and every wing player grew up watching Jordan (or Kobe if they are younger) and think they can play just as well as him so they actually try to do so. Someone that played 3 years of college ball is a rarity. And coaching hasn't improved that much if at all over just 20-30 years.

I personally don't think there is really that huge of a difference between this era and Jordan's era that people need to always it as an argument, but I can see what he means.

[RaininTwos]

This whole movement where people keep elevating Jordan over all time greats in every category possible is nauseating. Stop it.

[Sarcastic]

This whole movement where people keep elevating Jordan over all time greats in every category possible is nauseating. Stop it.

Kind of like what you do with Lebron.


If you made a thread about the GOAT rebounder or GOAT passer, Jordan would not be mentioned. It just so happens that this thread is about one of Jordan's greatest strengths.

[guy]

This whole movement where people keep elevating Jordan over all time greats in every category possible is nauseating. Stop it.

Didn't you say in another thread that there was no way Jordan could be better then Kobe at everything? And then tried to say Kobe had a better post game :oldlol:

[RaininTwos]

Kind of like what you do with Lebron.


If you made a thread about the GOAT rebounder or GOAT passer, Jordan would not be mentioned. It just so happens that this thread is about one of Jordan's greatest strengths.

When have I done that with Lebron?

*crickets*

You're such an idiot.

[RaininTwos]

Didn't you say in another thread that there was no way Jordan could be better then Kobe at everything? And then tried to say Kobe had a better post game :oldlol:
That's not how it went down at all, stop bullshitting.

Like I'm looking at the thread right now and you just assumed I said that because I complimented Kobe's sick ass post game.

[andgar923]

This whole movement where people keep elevating Jordan over all time greats in every category possible is nauseating. Stop it.

Uh.... you do know that he's considered the GOAT by like almost everybody right?

And the same things that we're saying today have been said by many others for years right?

It's YA'LL that try to elevate others and then compare them to Mike.

[Rnbizzle]

Uh.... you do know that he's considered the GOAT by like almost everybody right?

And the same things that we're saying today have been said by many others for years right?

It's YA'LL that try to elevate others and then compare them to Mike.
:facepalm

Just because someone is the consensus GOAT player doesn't mean he's better than everyone at everything..? Kobe's postgame is better. Lebron might be a better defender consistently, does that mean they are better all around players? No..

[ripthekik]

That's not how it went down at all, stop bullshitting.

Like I'm looking at the thread right now and you just assumed I said that because I complimented Kobe's sick ass post game.
baby, baby, baby ohhhhh
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LJJ]

:facepalm

Just because someone is the consensus GOAT player doesn't mean he's better than everyone at everything..? Kobe's postgame is better. Lebron might be a better defender consistently, does that mean they are better all around players? No..

:eek:

[Sarcastic]

When have I done that with Lebron?

*crickets*

You're such an idiot.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7618318&postcount=632


and there are people who think he's not one of the best passers ever

[Rnbizzle]

:eek:
Kobe's footwork in the post is clearly better than MJ's. Stop acting like I'm saying shocking things here.

[andgar923]

:facepalm

Just because someone is the consensus GOAT player doesn't mean he's better than everyone at everything..? Kobe's postgame is better. Lebron might be a better defender consistently, does that mean they are better all around players? No..
:roll: :lol :oldlol:

[andgar923]

Kobe's footwork in the post is clearly better than MJ's. Stop acting like I'm saying shocking things here.
:oldlol: :lol :roll:

[DaSeba5]

Kobe's footwork in the post is clearly better than MJ's. Stop acting like I'm saying shocking things here.

:wtf:

[guy]

That's not how it went down at all, stop bullshitting.

Like I'm looking at the thread right now and you just assumed I said that because I complimented Kobe's sick ass post game.

Post the link. I'm pretty sure you mentioned it in a response to comparing who's better between the two in certain categories.

[guy]

:facepalm

Just because someone is the consensus GOAT player doesn't mean he's better than everyone at everything..? Kobe's postgame is better. Lebron might be a better defender consistently, does that mean they are better all around players? No..

It doesn't, it just so happens Jordan is better then Kobe at everything (not "means to an end" type categories and even then Kobe is only a better 3 pt shooter, but just the overall categories).

[RaininTwos]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7618318&postcount=632
:oldlol:

that's nothing. I said he's a great passer. I didn't give him the Jordan treatment at all, nor did I mention any other players.

Stop posting trash.

[RaininTwos]

Uh.... you do know that he's considered the GOAT by like almost everybody right?

And the same things that we're saying today have been said by many others for years right?

It's YA'LL that try to elevate others and then compare them to Mike.

Greatest of all time doesn't equate to being a perfect basketball player. You guys prop him up as if he doesn't have any weaknesses. As if other all time great players dont have him beat in specific areas.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron.

[plowking]

Greatest of all time doesn't equate to being a perfect basketball player. You guys prop him up as if he doesn't have any weaknesses. As if other all time great players dont have him beat in specific areas.

Don't bother. I've seen Jordan brought up in several greatest passers thread. Even when 3 point shooting is brought up, somehow Jordan gets talked about as if he could have been, but he didn't want to take away from his game. :oldlol:

You can't win. If he wasn't the best, he could have been, it just wasn't his game.

[IGOTGAME]

I'm not the biggest Lebron fan but this is a legit argument. Lebron literally switches on to elite players and shuts them down all the time. It happens so much that it is simply normal. It is abnormal when guys actually play well against him. Add in the fact that he can guard 4s and 5s and rebounds like a center. Guy is a great defender and is capable of guarding 1 to 5.

Lebron at 6"8 260 is shutting down pgs with elite quickness in an era with no handchecking. Let's not act like we KNOW Jordan would do this.

[scandisk_]

Just because someone is the consensus GOAT player doesn't mean he's better than everyone at everything..? Kobe's footwork in the post is clearly better than MJ's. Stop acting like I'm saying shocking things here.

So that translates better?

ohh and btw,

Shooting, nod to kobe
range, nod to kobe
dribbling, nod to kobe

entirety of their post game? nah.. MJ takes this one

[RaininTwos]

Post the link. I'm pretty sure you mentioned it in a response to comparing who's better between the two in certain categories.

I made a mistake in that post by saying that Kobe was a better off the ball defender, what I meant was ball denial.

With that said, here's the link:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7550664&postcount=154


Kobe is a better shooter, better off ball defender and just as good in one on one situations, plus his post game is all time nasty.


^^^

Now if you noticed, I said that Kobe is a better shooter and off the ball defender(strictly in terms of ball denial, not talking about help D). Then I said he's just as good a 1 on 1 player as Jordan PLUS his post game is all time nasty. All-Time nasty doesn't mean that "Kobe's post game is better than Jordan's", you assumed that and ran with it. I think they are close in terms of the post game. You are going to choose Jordan, I don't care. It's so predictable now. I don't know why people even bother to watch if you guys are so adamant on proclaiming Jordan as the greatest and shooting down any player who comes near his skill level in any facet.

This place is just getting out of hand now. Jordan fans are shook as hell these days.

Back on topic, Jordan is one of the greatest defensive players ever. Lebron is one of the greatest defensive players ever. Neither is number one in this category, neither is top three. It's close, so all you people who keep riding Jordan's nuts so hard, check yourself.

[IGOTGAME]

Far better team/help defender. More disruptive defender. Better at containing penetration. Better rotations on the perimeter. Better hands. Better pressurer of the ball. Better fastbreak defender overall.

this is how you know that some people will never give a player props over Jordan. Lebron is by far the greatest fastbreak defender I have ever seen. There has never been anyone close in the last 25 years.

[arifgokcen]

I'm not the biggest Lebron fan but this is a legit argument. Lebron literally switches on to elite players and shuts them down all the time. It happens so much that it is simply normal. It is abnormal when guys actually play well against him. Add in the fact that he can guard 4s and 5s and rebounds like a center. Guy is a great defender and is capable of guarding 1 to 5.

Lebron at 6"8 260 is shutting down pgs with elite quickness in an era with no handchecking. Let's not act like we KNOW Jordan would do this.
+1111111

[andgar923]

Greatest of all time doesn't equate to being a perfect basketball player. You guys prop him up as if he doesn't have any weaknesses. As if other all time great players dont have him beat in specific areas.

YOu're jumping into conclusions.

I've never seen anybody say he's a perfect basketball player.

And the players that you guys always bring up aren't better than MJ in the categories that ya'll compare them too.

It's always shit like:

Kobe vs MJ in scoring
Kobe vs MJ in post up game
Bron vs MJ in defense
Wade vs MJ in blocking

Etc.etc.

It's never:

Reggie vs MJ in shooting
Stockton vs MJ in passing
Magic vs MJ in versatility
Hakeem or McHale vs MJ in post game

So naturally, when people wanna do the first comparisons MJ will usually come out on top. And :roll: @ the outrage you guys have at the thought of MJ actually being better than the players ya'll bring up.

While Mj isn't perfect, he's as perfect as any player in the history has been. MJ is the GOAT due to the sum of all the things he was great at. It isn't us (posters) that say MJ is the best at this or that. It's also experts, players, coaches, officials etc.etc. basically saying the same things on such a consistent basis that it becomes the consensus.

[andgar923]

this is how you know that some people will never give a player props over Jordan. Lebron is by far the greatest fastbreak defender I have ever seen. There has never been anyone close in the last 25 years.

And there's the problem.

[guy]

I made a mistake in that post by saying that Kobe was a better off the ball defender, what I meant was ball denial.

With that said, here's the link:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7550664&postcount=154




^^^

Now if you noticed, I said that Kobe is a better shooter and off the ball defender(strictly in terms of ball denial, not talking about help D). Then I said he's just as good a 1 on 1 player as Jordan PLUS his post game is all time nasty. All-Time nasty doesn't mean that "Kobe's post game is better than Jordan's", you assumed that and ran with it. I think they are close in terms of the post game. You are going to choose Jordan, I don't care. It's so predictable now. I don't know why people even bother to watch if you guys are so adamant on proclaiming Jordan as the greatest and shooting down any player who comes near his skill level in any facet.

This place is just getting out of hand now. Jordan fans are shook as hell these days.

Back on topic, Jordan is one of the greatest defensive players ever. Lebron is one of the greatest defensive players ever. Neither is number one in this category, neither is top three. It's close, so all you people who keep riding Jordan's nuts so hard, check yourself.

Well Kobe isn't that either, but thats not as bad as saying he's a better off-ball defender. People don't say Jordan is better then everyone at everything. It just so happens the person most people compare to Jordan is Kobe, and he literally isn't better then Jordan at anything except 3-pt shooting. Saying Jordan is a better defender then Lebron isn't the same as saying he's better at everything. Most people will agree that he's a better rebounder and arguably a better passer. If you brought up a comparison between Jordan and Bird and Magic, most will agree that Bird and Magic were better rebounders and passers.

The people that complain about this seem to have a problem not spreading praise around, while the others that know what they're talking are actually just going by who these players actually are as players. Another similar thing to this that happens is when people automatically assume Pippen was a better defender then Jordan.

[Ne 1]

he literally isn't better then Jordan at anything

Maybe if Jordan worked more on his 3-point shot, off hand, handles, foot work, post game, shooting form, ball handling, left hand, mid range game and help defense he could have been as good as Kobe.

[RaininTwos]

Well Kobe isn't that either, but thats not as bad as saying he's a better off-ball defender. People don't say Jordan is better then everyone at everything. It just so happens the person most people compare to Jordan is Kobe, and he literally isn't better then Jordan at anything except 3-pt shooting. Saying Jordan is a better defender then Lebron isn't the same as saying he's better at everything. Most people will agree that he's a better rebounder and arguably a better passer. If you brought up a comparison between Jordan and Bird and Magic, most will agree that Bird and Magic were better rebounders and passers.

The people that complain about this seem to have a problem not spreading praise around, while the others that know what they're talking are actually just going by who these players actually are as players. Another similar thing to this that happens is when people automatically assume Pippen was a better defender then Jordan.

Lebron is "arguably" a better passer? He just is.This is exactly what the hell I am talking about. It's not even arguable.

Then you are going to say all of this cover up bs, are you not reading andgar's posts? Maybe you've got him on your ignore list or something.

Keep insulting my intelligence while leaving words out of your sentences though. That's definitely going to get you far in life.

[RaininTwos]

YOu're jumping into conclusions.

I've never seen anybody say he's a perfect basketball player.

And the players that you guys always bring up aren't better than MJ in the categories that ya'll compare them too.

It's always shit like:

Kobe vs MJ in scoring
Kobe vs MJ in post up game
Bron vs MJ in defense
Wade vs MJ in blocking

Etc.etc.

It's never:

Reggie vs MJ in shooting
Stockton vs MJ in passing
Magic vs MJ in versatility
Hakeem or McHale vs MJ in post game

So naturally, when people wanna do the first comparisons MJ will usually come out on top. And :roll: @ the outrage you guys have at the thought of MJ actually being better than the players ya'll bring up.

While Mj isn't perfect, he's as perfect as any player in the history has been. MJ is the GOAT due to the sum of all the things he was great at. It isn't us (posters) that say MJ is the best at this or that. It's also experts, players, coaches, officials etc.etc. basically saying the same things on such a consistent basis that it becomes the consensus.

One of the worst posts I have ever seen.

[andgar923]

One of the worst posts I have ever seen.
You haven't been reading your posts have you?

[andgar923]

Lebron is "arguably" a better passer? He just is.This is exactly what the hell I am talking about. It's not even arguable.

Then you are going to say all of this cover up bs, are you not reading andgar's posts? Maybe you've got him on your ignore list or something.

Keep insulting my intelligence while leaving words out of your sentences though. That's definitely going to get you far in life.
:lol :oldlol: :roll:

[RaininTwos]

You haven't been reading your posts have you?
This is the sort of comeback my six year old brother would frown upon.



:lol :oldlol: :roll:

Please say Jordan is a better passer than Lebron. Please do it.

[IGOTGAME]

And there's the problem.

yep. the problem is you can't name someone better over the last 25 years. If you can, please name said player/players.

[andgar923]

This is the sort of comeback my six year old brother would frown upon.




Please say Jordan is a better passer than Lebron. Please do it.
:(

[andgar923]

And for the record, Bron isn't even a better passer than MJ.

Yeah... you mad?

I can give a full breakdown as to why that's the case, but you'd probably throw your hands up in the air and complain about that as well.

[RaininTwos]

And for the record, Bron isn't even a better passer than MJ.

Yeah... you mad?

I can give a full breakdown as to why that's the case, but you'd probably throw your hands up in the air and complain about that as well.

I'm not mad at all, you just keep proving my point more and more you dumbass.

[guy]

Lebron is "arguably" a better passer? He just is.This is exactly what the hell I am talking about. It's not even arguable.

Then you are going to say all of this cover up bs, are you not reading andgar's posts? Maybe you've got him on your ignore list or something.

Keep insulting my intelligence while leaving words out of your sentences though. That's definitely going to get you far in life.

It is arguable. Tell me why it isn't. Because "he just is"? Wow, great reasoning. I'd go with Lebron, but its arguable and the difference isn't that big. I'm assuming you think its not because of statistics and just cause Lebron plays point forward, is more passive, and is a more WILLING passer. That doesn't make a player a better passer. Same idiotic reasoning people seem to use when they try to say Pippen was a better passer.

Andgar is absolutely right when it comes to those comparisons. If you compare similar players, its not far-fetched that one player will end up better in almost all categories. It just is what it is. Doesn't mean they aren't close in any categories or the other isn't elite. It just is what it is. Not sure why its hard to understand that one player can be better then another at almost everything. Not any different then saying someone like Hakeem Olajuwon is literally better then Patrick Ewing or Dwight Howard at everything.

Not sure what the last post meant. I'm writing on a message board though, not a newspaper article.

[Sarcastic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GXm_OK9nOg

Jordan is just as good a passer as Lebron, if not better. Lebron is just more willing of a passer.

[RaininTwos]

Andgar is insinuating that you have to take the very best in every category to compare jordan to and not elite all around players like himself. That's the very definition of trolling. That's just proving my point.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GXm_OK9nOg

Jordan is just as good a passer as Lebron, if not better. Lebron is just more willing of a passer.

Yes.

[plowking]

It is arguable. Tell me why it isn't. Because "he just is"? Wow, great reasoning. I'd go with Lebron, but its arguable and the difference isn't that big. I'm assuming you think its not because of statistics and just cause Lebron plays point forward, is more passive, and is a more WILLING passer. That doesn't make a player a better passer. Same idiotic reasoning people seem to use when they try to say Pippen was a better passer.



Cool. Jordan isn't a better scorer then. He's just less of a willing passer, more selfish and a scoring guard. See how easy that was, and how stupid it sounded?

[DirtySanchez]

This should not even being a discussion. LeBron is not a lock down defender what so ever.

This LeBron sh*t is going to far now.

[Pra]

MJ was the better defender but I expect the OP to get a lot of shit for making this thread, not because it is a bad comparison but because MJ is the most beloved on this site and LBJ is the most hated.

I saw this comparison on another site and it was actually a close comparison but then again the LBJ hate is not as big as it is over here.


:applause:

[guy]

Cool. Jordan isn't a better scorer then. He's just less of a willing passer, more selfish and a scoring guard. See how easy that was, and how stupid it sounded?

Its stupid cause thats not why he's a better scorer. In comparison to Lebron, replace Jordan with Iverson in your sentence and you'd probably be right.

Jordan more often then Lebron made better decisions when it came to either shooting or passing. Not sure any player ever is perfect when it comes to balancing when they are passive and aggressive, but Lebron's passiveness has generally been to a greater fault then Jordan's selfishness ever was.

[IGOTGAME]

Andar, I would love to hear about the fastbreak defenders that are better than Lebron. Please help me out.

[juju151111]

Cool. Jordan isn't a better scorer then. He's just less of a willing passer, more selfish and a scoring guard. See how easy that was, and how stupid it sounded?
Didnt u claim Shaw and Wade are the only two to get triple team?

[Indian guy]

:oldlol: @ any fool who doesn't have andgar23 on his IL.

[plowking]

Didnt u claim Shaw and Wade are the only two to get triple team?

I said Moses and Wade were the only two I ever saw get that treatment consistently, and it was in a playoff series. Wade got it more so for how bad his teammates were than how great he was, although he was great.

I've never seen anyone consistently get triple teamed throughout a season. One play where 2 certain players sag off their man to help does not count as a consistent triple team. It might happen once or twice in a game, and most times its because the wrong man is coming over to rotate and you get too many around the ball.
There are very rare occasions when there is a deliberate attempt to triple team a player. Like I said, Moses and Wade were the only players I saw get that sent at them. Go back and watch the 09 playoffs and you'll see Wade getting trapped at half court as soon as he brings the ball over. Never seen it before while watching basketball.

[Sarcastic]

Jordan got double and triple teamed all the time.

[IGOTGAME]

Jordan got double and triple teamed all the time.

no one gets tripled teamed all the time. just not how basketball is played.

[Sarcastic]

no one gets tripled teamed all the time. just not how basketball is played.

Figure of speech, but he got triple teamed more than anyone else. Teams like the Pistons and Knicks devised their entire defenses to stop him.

[Dragonyeuw]

Figure of speech, but he got triple teamed more than anyone else. Teams like the Pistons and Knicks devised their entire defenses to stop him.

Bingo...teams had no way to stop Jordan unless they literally beat the crap out of him. The 'Jordan rules' couldn't even exist in today's NBA.

[IGOTGAME]

Figure of speech, but he got triple teamed more than anyone else. Teams like the Pistons and Knicks devised their entire defenses to stop him.

ok. so he didn't get triple teamed alot. sounds about right.

oh, so teams devised their entire defenses to stop him....never heard of that happening before:facepalm

[DatAsh]

jordan was never a better defender than pippen

what the hell are you talking about

:facepalm

Just stop while you're only slightly behind

[DatAsh]

And for the record, Bron isn't even a better passer than MJ.

Yeah... you mad?

I can give a full breakdown as to why that's the case, but you'd probably throw your hands up in the air and complain about that as well.

:wtf:

I'd actually like to hear this, cause to me, and I'd venture to say most people who have seen both players, Lebron is quite clearly the better passer. I've never seen any version of Jordan that was capable of making some of the passes that Lebron seems to makes on a consistent basis.

I'd also like to what exactly makes Kobe a better off ball defender than Jordan(not that it's that outlandish). Kobe is a great off the ball defender, but Jordan and Pippen are probably the two best ball deniers that have ever played. Maybe I just don't pay enough attention to Kobe's off ball defense, but to me this is quite clearly in Jordan's favor.

[gengiskhan]

Be prepared for 300 posts of nonsense in 5... 4... 3... 2...

You're right

This thread is heading that way.

Jordan: 100+ blks/ 200+ stls in single season. :bowdown: First one to do so

Jordan again: 100+ blks/ 250+ stls in 2nd straight year. :bowdown: only one to do back-2-back hence "DPOY" Title win.

LBJ: :lol :lol l :roll: :roll:

Jordan = 3 x Steals Champ

LBJ: :lol :lol

The reality is

MJ's defense >>>>> LBJs D + Wade's D combined

[andgar923]

Andgar is insinuating that you have to take the very best in every category to compare jordan to and not elite all around players like himself. That's the very definition of trolling. That's just proving my point.




Yes.
If thats how you interpreted then it's your fault because that's not what I meant. I just used those as an examPle for emphasis. My point was clear... In the areas that you guys are comparing MJ to those players, MJ happens to be better.

[andgar923]

:wtf:

I'd actually like to hear this, cause to me, and I'd venture to say most people who have seen both players, Lebron is quite clearly the better passer. I've never seen any version of Jordan that was capable of making some of the passes that Lebron seems to makes on a consistent basis.

I'd also like to what exactly makes Kobe a better off ball defender than Jordan(not that it's that outlandish). Kobe is a great off the ball defender, but Jordan and Pippen are probably the two best ball deniers that have ever played. Maybe I just don't pay enough attention to Kobe's off ball defense, but to me this is quite clearly in Jordan's favor.
As far as the actual 'action' of passing itself, it's about the same. Both can make great passes in a variety of ways. What makes MJ better is his quicker decision making and decisiveness. Bron appears to be too predictable at times, he also seems to take longer in making decisions with the ball. MJ also reads, reacts and recognizes the defense better. Specially when MJ is in the post which bron rarely is, he surveys the floor and keeps the defense on their toes always on edge, Bron isn't at that level yet.

[97 bulls]

As far as the actual 'action' of passing itself, it's about the same. Both can make great passes in a variety of ways. What makes MJ better is his quicker decision making and decisiveness. Bron appears to be too predictable at times, he also seems to take longer in making decisions with the ball. MJ also reads, reacts and recognizes the defense better. Specially when MJ is in the post which bron rarely is, he surveys the floor and keeps the defense on their toes always on edge, Bron isn't at that level yet.
Great point. James is ectremly prediictable. And whats so hard about what James does? He just starts out at the top of the key, drive, then kick to the corner if hes doubled. When Jordan did this very same thing, he avg almost a triple double.

[RIP CITY]

Maybe if Jordan worked more on his 3-point shot, off hand, handles, foot work, post game, shooting form, ball handling, left hand, mid range game and help defense he could have been as good as Kobe.

Where is that "Dumbest things said on ISH" thread at?