Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

[D-Rose]

Kobe Bryant goes back to school: Lakers switching to Princeton offense (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kobe-bryant-goes-back-to-school--lakers-switching-to-princeton-offense.html;_ylt=AqCmo3i_PoGnK7p5i6CXe3K8vLYF;_yl u=X3oDMTRrcDByaGV1BG1pdANMSVNUUyBNaXhlZCBMaXN0IE5C QSBFeHBlcnRzBHBrZwM1ZDk2YWYwNC00MmZkLTM5ZDEtOTYzNy 01ZTJkZmE5NjhlMTEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA01lZGlhQkxpc3RNaXhl ZExQQ0FUZW1wBHZlcgM2MmZiZWRlMy1kYTk3LTExZTEtYmZjZi 0yZjhjYjRkNzk4NmU-;_ylg=X3oDMTFoNjVvZWVyBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANuYmEEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3)

Will post just an excerpt because of ISH rules:


LONDON – Kobe Bryant has been searching for spacing and freedom and flow on offense, for a way to counter defenses bent on sagging and suffocating him on the floor. Even before the Los Angeles Lakers delivered him point guard Steve Nash, Bryant had raised an idea with coach Mike Brown about the possibility of employing a distant cousin to the triangle – the Princeton offense.

So there was Brown and Bryant in a side room in a Las Vegas gymnasium during Team USA's training camp in early July, listening to Eddie Jordan detail the offense's intricacies, laying out how Bryant, Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum would benefit with and without the basketball. Here was an old-school Ivy League blueprint daring to be a solution for the Showtime Lakers' issues.

Jordan happens to be the foremost Princeton authority in the NBA, the heir to architect Pete Carril, and that's an immense part of why the Lakers are moving toward an agreement to hire Jordan as an assistant coach. Jordan sold his vision of the offense to a most willing subject, and ultimately Bryant departed for these Olympics convinced that the Lakers have a sound plan of action for the 2012-13 season.

[knickswin]

kobe will still chuck plenty. don't worry.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

It's absolutely amazing how clueless Brown is when it comes to offense. He's just grasping at anything. Straight Princeton won't work in today's NBA.

[KOBEtherealKing]

kobe will still chuck plenty. don't worry.

knicks will still suck plenty. don't worry.

[Sarcastic]

:roll:

[Heavincent]

Princetonbe

[Jacks3]

kobe will still chuck plenty. don't worry.
And win yet another ring. Don't worry.

[RRR3]

Princetonbe
Collegebe

[SpecialQue]

kobe will still chuck plenty. don't worry.

Thank god. I was worried there for a second.

[Da KO King]

It's absolutely amazing how clueless Brown is when it comes to offense. He's just grasping at anything. Straight Princeton won't work in today's NBA.
What Eddie Jordan calls the Princeton is HARDLY the Princeton at all.

[DuMa]

so Kobe will chuck like Arenas did for Eddie Jordan? got it

[G-Funk]

kobe will still chuck plenty. don't worry.

how's melo and stat working out for ya??? lol :roll:

[knickswin]

knicks will still suck plenty. don't worry.

believe me, I completely agree with you. the knicks are a joke of a franchise. the fact that they let one of their best assets in Lin walk away for nothing this summer while giving grandpas jason kidd and marcus camby multi-years is unfathomable. doesn't change the fact that kobe's a chucker.

[Jacks3]

lol @ these clowns.

[G-Funk]

Thank god. I was worried there for a second.
:applause:

[Jacks3]

Chucker with 5 rings. Bitches be mad.

[Jacks3]

Chucker who manages to get more APG than any non-PG not named LeBron.

Amazing.

[knickswin]

how's melo and stat working out for ya??? lol :roll:

not very well ... amar'e was garbage last year. melo holds onto the ball and was inefficient. they make each other worse.

[Batz]

With options like Nash/Bryant/Gasol/Bynum, it's a neat offense to run. But Pau is still going to suck. An active defensive team like Miami would crush it to death. All it takes is activity really.

[SpecialQue]

In all seriousness, I get the chucker complaints, and I personally think that Kobe takes way too many ill-advised shots, but considering the overall success of the Lakers since he's been a part of the franchise, especially in a tougher conference, I'd still rather he be on my team than anyone else in the NBA.

[steve]

What Eddie Jordan calls the Princeton is HARDLY the Princeton at all.

Right, it's the modified version Carril brought over to the Kings in the late '90s. It does seem like an odd choice though for the way the Lakers are built. It works well, like it did for the Wizards in the mid '00s, when you don't necessarily have a traditional point guard or when, like the Kings had with Webber, Divac, and Miller, solid passing big men. The only player that really fits the system is Gasol (depending on Kobe's mentality, he could succeed in it, but then Kobe's going to be doing what he always does), but it doesn't really take advantage of Nash (it's sort of doing him a disservice to just turn him into a shooter) and it's really ill suited for Bynum.

[G-Funk]

not very well ... amar'e was garbage last year. melo holds onto the ball and was inefficient. they make each other worse.
should be used to it

sad

[knickswin]

And win yet another ring. Don't worry.

I would not put my money on the Lakers winning next year ...

[knickswin]

should be used to it

sad

of course I'm used to it. this team's sucked for over a decade. I've just resigned myself to it at this point. It's sad because they were a commendable organization throughout the 90's. Idiot boy Dolan's reign has been an embarrassment.

[Jacks3]

I'd put my money on the guy with 5. More than the entire Knicks franchise lmao.

[Jacks3]

Kobe has played his best ball under the triangle. With some of the best passing teams in the league. It's amusing how these morons always forget that.

[knickswin]

I'd put my money on the guy with 5. More than the entire Knicks franchise lmao.

I wouldn't put my money on the 34-year-old whose ts% was below .53 last season.

I tend not to be delusional about my team or its players though ...

[Raz]

What Eddie Jordan calls the Princeton is HARDLY the Princeton at all.

Gosh, who am I to believe? Eddie Jordan or Da KO King? Who knows more about the Princeton offense? I'm going to go with my gut and say you're the pro on this one.

[devin112]

kobe will still chuck plenty. don't worry.

Bryanton Offense

[devin112]

Gosh, who am I to believe? Eddie Jordan or Da KO King? Who knows more about the Princeton offense? I'm going to go with my gut and say you're the pro on this one.

This isn't called ISH for no reason.

[Jacks3]

I'd put my money on the guy who put up 28/5+/5/1.3, made 1st-Team All-NBA, finished 4th in MVP voting, led his his team to the #3 seed, then put up 30/5/5/25 PER/110 ORTG/#1 OWS in the playoffs. And who is the best SG in the league.

I'm not stupid enough to think TS% is the only thing that matters, especially without looking at context.

Only delusional morons do that.

[RRR3]

Wacks(offtoKobe)3 talking to himself again:lol



Damn, I love this post: http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7588858&postcount=44

Wacks can never get over that one :lol

[Robster89]

It's absolutely amazing how clueless Brown is when it comes to offense. He's just grasping at anything. Straight Princeton won't work in today's NBA.


Exactly!
Has Mike Brown ever heard of the 24 second shot clock?

[Jacks3]

RRetard3 bringing up irrelevant shit again.

[RRR3]

RRetard3 bringing up irrelevant shit again.
Wacks: "LeBron>Kobe"


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Jacks3]

Again, what does that have to do with anything...RRetard?

[knickswin]

I'd put my money on the guy who put up 28/5+/5/1.3, made 1st-Team All-NBA, finished 4th in MVP voting, led his his team to the #3 seed, then put up 30/5/5/25 PER/110 ORTG/#1 OWS in the playoffs. And who is the best SG in the league.

I'm not stupid enough to think TS% is the only thing that matters, especially without looking at context.

Only delusional morons do that.

there's no excuse for kobe being that inefficient. none. he takes a lot of stupid shots. if you can't see that, you're deluding yourself. plain and simple. numbers don't lie; kobe was not efficient last season.

an efficient player is someone with a ts% around 60%. you can make excuses for a guy if he shoots between that 57-58% area or maybe even a guy in the 55% based on context and what his team expects out of him. .527% is just bad.

[Zedja]

there's no excuse for kobe being that inefficient. none. he takes a lot of stupid shots. if you can't see that, you're deluding yourself. plain and simple. numbers don't lie; kobe was not efficient last season.

an efficient player is someone with a ts% around 60%. you can make excuses for a guy if he shoots between that 57-58% area or maybe even a guy in the 55% based on context and what his team expects out of him. .527% is just bad.
Just cause LeBron is better than Melo doesn't mean you gotta be :mad:

[NUPE_1911]

Well, no matter the offense, Kobe is going to take numerous numerous numerous terrible shot attempts. That is just life with Kobe. It will be even more irritating now because he has three good to great players to pass to.

[RRR3]

Well, no matter the offense, Kobe is going to take numerous numerous numerous terrible shot attempts. That is just life with Kobe. It will be even more irritating now because he has three good to great players to pass to.
inb4 wacks makes excuses

[knickswin]

Just cause LeBron is better than Melo doesn't mean you gotta be :mad:

unlike a lot of people around here, I'm not mad. I don't worship these athletes enough to have to delude myself if they underachieve.

kobe's an inefficient player. the numbers are right there. you can either make yourself jump through mental hoops to get around that and make excuses for him, or you can just take it for what is right in front of you and accept it.

like I said, you CAN make excuses if a guy is a little below the target efficiency which is 60% ts%. yeah, maybe if one guy is at 60% because he only catch-and-shoots whereas the other guy has to create more and is therefore at 58%, then maybe the 60% ts% guy isn't necessarily better. but give me a break with kobe. 52.7% ts% is just bad. you can't make enough excuses for it.

of course lebron is better than melo. way better.

[Dictator]

inb4 wacks makes excuses


Thought you said you were gonna stop trolling LA? :coleman:

[Jacks3]

His TS% was at league-average. When did I deny that?

It doesn't change the fact there's a lot more to the game than TS% or that you can't look at his TS% without some context.

Like the fact that the Lakers have perhaps the worst spacing in the league, or that his head coach is a moron in terms of offense, or that he's constantly forced into bail-out shots because the team often tries to force-feed Bynum/Pau, or his coach playing a 16th year vet 39 MPG. There's a bunch more factors at play than just his shot-selection.

His TS% was at 56% with Bynum or Pau off the floor. Well above league-average. And it's easy to see why.

Besides, he still put up put up 28/5+/5/1.3, made 1st-Team All-NBA, finished 4th in MVP voting, led his his team to the #3 seed, then put up 30/5/5/25 PER/110 ORTG/#1 OWS in the playoffs.

lol @ being delusional for having faith in the best SG in the league and a 5-time Champion.

[BlackVVaves]

Don't see why this is a bad move for the Lakers, it will probably be modified to adapt to Steve Nash as the primary ball handler in the offense, and will give them some structure on the offense, no?

I'd assume if the offense proved effective for Bibby, Webber, Peja and Divac/Miller, it should be effective for Nash, Pau, Kobe, and Bynum.

The biggest question mark in that offensive scheme is probably the black hole - Bynum.

[RRR3]

Thought you said you were gonna stop trolling LA? :coleman:
Jacks is a Lakers fan? :confusedshrug: Seems like a Kobe kid to me. Hard to resist sorry, it's fun to fux with ol' Jacky boy :D :banana:

[RRR3]

His TS% was at league-average. When did I deny that?

It doesn't change the fact there's a lot more to the game than TS% or that you can't look at his TS% without some context.

Like the fact that the Lakers have perhaps the worst spacing in the league, or that his head coach is a moron in terms of offense, or that he's constantly forced into bail-out shots because the team often tries to force-feed Bynum/Pau, or his coach playing a 16th year vet 39 MPG. There's a bunch more factors at play than just his shot-selection.

His TS% was at 56% with Bynum or Pau off the floor. Well above league-average. And it's easy to see why.

Besides, he still put up put up 28/5+/5/1.3, made 1st-Team All-NBA, finished 4th in MVP voting, led his his team to the #3 seed, then put up 30/5/5/25 PER/110 ORTG/#1 OWS in the playoffs.

lol @ being delusional for having faith in the best SG in the league and a 5-time Champion.

Kobe wasn't number one in the playoffs in anything FOH
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2012_leaders.html

[Jacks3]

Providing some context= making excuses?

RRetard at it again.

[Dictator]

Jacks is a Lakers fan? :confusedshrug: Seems like a Kobe kid to me. Hard to resist sorry, it's fun to fux with ol' Jacky boy :D :banana:

9500 posts in 1-2 yrs? :biggums: Doesn't even seem like you post alot.

[RRR3]

9500 posts in 1-2 yrs? :biggums: Doesn't even seem like you post alot.
I'm a ninja, you don't even notice my silent assassin-like attacks until it's too late :pimp:

[knickswin]

you call 52.7% ts% "league average" ... I call it "bad" ... a player who is supposed to be the "league's best shooting guard" should not be at league average efficiency

if a player is truly as exceptional as he's hyped to be, the goal should be 60% ... that is a player who is adding a lot to his team's scoring. being more than 7 percentage points below that is really bad. you can make excuses for a couple of percentage points, but not 7.

[Jacks3]

Oh yeah. 5 rings. Keep crying, bitches.

[RRR3]

Oh yeah. 5 rings. Keep crying, bitches.
GOATbe :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Zedja]

GOATbe :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
HAI RRR3! How I missed your company!:cheers:

[RRR3]

HAI RRR3! How I missed your company!:cheers:
Sup dude. BTW where is Bako? saw that as your location previously just curious what country that's in lol

[Zedja]

Sup dude. BTW where is Bako? saw that as your location previously just curious what country that's in lol
Don't stalk me :cry:

[RRR3]

Don't stalk me :cry:
:biggums: Just making conversation, dude calm down, I could easily look it up if I wanted "to stalk you" :rolleyes:

[Zedja]

:biggums: Just making conversation, dude calm down, I could easily look it up if I wanted "to stalk you" :rolleyes:
GOAT Poster being kind to me :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Xiao Yao You]

It's absolutely amazing how clueless Brown is when it comes to offense. He's just grasping at anything. Straight Princeton won't work in today's NBA.

It worked fine in Wahington before Arenas got hurt. Was my favorite offense to watch. Kobe, Bynum and Metta will still do what they do though I'm sure.

[Jacks3]

you call 52.7% ts% "league average" ... I call it "bad" ...
That's exactly what it was. At league-average.

a player who is supposed to be the "league's best shooting guard" should not be at league average efficiency
So Wade isn't the best either right? 52.7% TS in the post-season?



So I guess Harden is the best SG right? Because that's all that matters? TS%?

98 Jordan sucks right? 53% TS? He wasn't the best SG?

lmao

if a player is truly as exceptional as he's hyped to be, the goal should be 60% ... that is a player who is adding a lot to his team's scoring.
lmao.

Dantley was at 65% TS in his prime yet his team's offense was better without him.

There's plenty of super-high TS% guys who actually weren't that impacful at all.

You probably think Kevin Martin/Harden> Kobe because they have 60% TS.

lmao

Newsflash: There's a lot more to helping a team's offense than TS%



being more than 7 percentage points below that is really bad. you can make excuses for a couple of percentage points, but not 7.
lol

[RRR3]

That's exactly what it was. At league-average.

So Wade isn't the best either right? 52.7% TS in the post-season?



So I guess Harden is the best SG right? Because that's all that matters? TS%?

98 Jordan sucks right? 53% TS? He wasn't the best SG?

lmao

lmao.

Dantley was at 65% TS in his prime yet his team's offense was better without him.

There's plenty of super-high TS% guys who actually weren't that impacful at all.

You probably think Kevin Martin/Harden> Kobe because they have 60% TS.

lmao



lol
DA GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Kiddlovesnets]

lol with Mike Brown?

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Still didn't fire Mr. Potato Head?

[DixieNourmous]

GOAT Poster being kind to me :bowdown: :bowdown: Zedja (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/member.php?u=131104)
Pauk and RRR3 are sexi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=131104&dateline=1343697848

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In a condom used by RRR3+Pauk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sucking @ss for reps or what?

[Zedja]

Zedja (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/member.php?u=131104)
Pauk and RRR3 are sexi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=131104&dateline=1343697848

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In a condom used by RRR3+Pauk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sucking @ss for reps or what?

y u mad i dont dick ride you or something? LOL Sit your ass down you clown. I just like those two posters because they are hilarious. Don't be mad you can't be like them :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[DKLaker]

It's absolutely amazing how clueless Brown is when it comes to offense. He's just grasping at anything. Straight Princeton won't work in today's NBA.

Right :cheers: I've been explaining this for weeks in the Lakers forum, good to see someone else who understands this stuff :applause: :applause: :applause:

Brown is a moron!!!!

[DKLaker]

Exactly!
Has Mike Brown ever heard of the 24 second shot clock?

Correct!!!! It's stupid to try to run a 35 second offense with a 24 clock :facepalm

[jlauber]

Bring back Hank Iba's offense...the same offense that ultimately lost the '72 Olympics (that and the cash that was falling out of the refs pockets as they left the floor at the end of the Gold Medal game.)

[Zackmorris]

Isnt this the same offense the 02 Kings and the 03-04 Nets used?

[RazorBaLade]

why cant we just use the give the ball to nash offense?

[resin_baller]

Princeton works if you have the right people for it, which LA doesn't. Complete mismatch of offense and personnel.

[Xiao Yao You]

why cant we just use the give the ball to nash offense?

Because only a give the ball to Kobe offense is acceptable.

[OG LeeTSkeeT]

What offense are even out there to learn and which suits the Lakers the best? Hate when a thread turns into a stat argument.

[RazorBaLade]

Because only a give the ball to Kobe offense is acceptable.

im mad

[NumberSix]

knicks will still suck plenty. don't worry.
It's funny, because it's true.

[longtime lurker]

It's funny because didn't Mike Brown try to do this in Cleveland and fail horribly? I mean it worked well for the Nets with a ball dominant PG, but I think Lakers should just stick to simple pick and roll offense with Nash directing the plays.

[KeyNote]

give the ball the nash, set picks, roll to the basket or spot up

seriously

[ShaqAttack3234]

Maybe if the head coach was Rick Adelman. I loved the offense with the early 00's Kings, it really fit with the offense running through arguably the 2 best passing big men in the league not named Sabonis in Webber and Divac with Bibby thriving playing without the ball because of his shooting. Nash could fit into that role, but it does seem limiting for him.

But a reason it worked with the Kings is because they had the right players of course, and they had more offensive talent than probably any team in the last 10-15 years. How many teams in the 2000's had 7 players averaging double figures? Especially on a team that had 2 players averaging over 20 for the season. Of course, they were also one of the few teams in that era that liked to run.

I'd love to see Pau in this offense, and Kobe definitely has the ability to succeed in it, but Bynum's role will have to be limited just like it was in another offense predicated on passing, the triangle. There was a reason Phil preferred Bynum as no more than a 4th option in the triangle.

But Mike Brown is clueless offensively anyway, it's tough to picture one of his teams running a really nice offense. He's content to just give his stars the ball, have them dominate the basketball and hope they carry him so he doesn't have to do much thinking. He's done that every year he's been a head coach.

He's a good defensive coach, but he's so one-dimensional, and also completely lacks the balls to even think about criticizing his stars. We know he didn't do it in Cleveland and he said last year that he was going to defer to Kobe. That alone told me this guy should never be a head coach.

[Optimus Prime]

All these kids acting all big like they know more about the game than professional players and coaches ... :facepalm

Kids just mad Kobe gonna get 6+ :kobe:

[dbk123]

Kobe Bryant has been searching for spacing and freedom and flow on offense, for a way to counter defenses bent on sagging and suffocating him on the floor. Even before the Los Angeles Lakers delivered him point guard Steve Nash, Bryant had raised an idea with coach Mike Brown about the possibility of employing a distant cousin to the triangle – the Princeton offense.

Read more: http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/#ixzz22Gc5Lcxp

[talkingconch]

The Colorado shooting happened almost 2 weeks ago.

[TheeBeast]

Already posted...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273020

[DuMa]

We Walked on the Moon?!?!?

[Pra]

We Walked on the Moon?!?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5fhax_wOs4

[insidehoops]

Bump

[ihoopallday]

About a day late on this topic my friend. Don't worry though, 99% of the threads on this site are about Lakers and Heat.

[G-train]

Gosh, who am I to believe? Eddie Jordan or Da KO King? Who knows more about the Princeton offense? I'm going to go with my gut and say you're the pro on this one.

NOOB.
Da KO King is an ISH legend and playbook specialist.
Dumbtards like you that keep him and other good posters away.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Like it.

Bynum won't though, honestly I like Bynum , but to me he's no longer a great fit for this team no matter what you do.Doesn't move quickly enough.

[IGOTGAME]

Right :cheers: I've been explaining this for weeks in the Lakers forum, good to see someone else who understands this stuff :applause: :applause: :applause:

Brown is a moron!!!!
Well, you can't run a real Princeton with a 24 second shot clock.

[DKLaker]

Well, you can't run a real Princeton with a 24 second shot clock.

Which is exactly why most of us know that they should simply run pick and roll with spot up shooters ready.

[b1imtf]

Bryanton Offense
Ban this fool :facepalm
PrincetonBe Offense

[Da KO King]

All these kids acting all big like they know more about the game than professional players and coaches ... :facepalm

Kids just mad Kobe gonna get 6+ :kobe:


Gosh, who am I to believe? Eddie Jordan or Da KO King? Who knows more about the Princeton offense? I'm going to go with my gut and say you're the pro on this one.It's not about believing one over the other, nor is it about who has played or coached professionally. It's about using common sense as it applies to the NBA offenses.

No NBA team uses an offense created at the high school or college level in its true form. NBA teams/coaches are all about controlling who is featured in the offense and getting shots within 19 seconds of taking possession. High School/College offenses are created to get ANY player a good shot and don

[gengiskhan]

naaah

How about "Penn state offense?" :lol

Run by Sandusky from behind. :lol

Kobeet*h will enjoy that most being on the receiving end. :lol :roll:

[TheeBeast]

naaah

How about "Penn state offense?" :lol

Run by Sandusky from behind. :lol

Kobeet*h will enjoy that most being on the receiving end. :lol :roll:

:roll:

:facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

The Lakers did not trade for Steve Nash to watch him make an early entry pass and become an off-ball player. .

Hard to imagine him being much more next to Kobe.

[jlauber]

Bring back Dean Smith's "Four Corners"...

[Xiao Yao You]

Hell noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! !!