Matrix Director Changes Gender

[hoopaddict08]

Formerly known as the "Wachowski Brothers," half-comprised of Larry Wachowski -- Larry is now Lana. Lana has been "quietly transitioning genders" over the past decade, according to the L.A. Times (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/moviesnow/la-et-mn-cloud-atlas-trailer-and-lana-wachowski-make-debut-20120726,0,4731527.story).



Rumors around Lana Wachowski's sexuality and gender identity have been swirling for nearly a decade. According to reports, she has undergone gender reassignment surgery and has identified herself as "Lana" -- in varying frequency -- for quite some time.


With her hair styled in hot pink dreadlocks, 47-year-old Lana has publicly debut as a woman in this video -- making this the first time a well known film director has publicly changed genders.


http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2012/07/Matrix-Director-Larry-Wachowski-Now-A-She.jpg


I honestly have never even heard of the director until now (not a huge Matrix fan, nor am I a movie buff) but :wtf:

[miller-time]

I honestly have never even heard of the director until now (not a huge Matrix fan, nor am I a movie buff) but :wtf:

fair enough you haven't heard of the director, but you haven't heard of gender reassignment?

[Knicks101]

Good for it. :applause:

[Punpun]

but :wtf:

What's the problem ? ANd Knowing Matrix has nothing to do with being a movie buff. Nothing.

[Punpun]

Good for it. :applause:
Her. She is a girl. Not a shemale.

[KevinNYC]

Mazel Tov.

[raiderfan19]

Disgusting

[PullupJay]

Why? Ill never understand why a man would change his gender... someone please explain to me. Why??

[jbot]

creepy.

[Knicks101]

Why? Ill never understand why a man would change his gender... someone please explain to me. Why??

They were born in the wrong body and they feel they need to fix it.

[Jackass18]

Why? Ill never understand why a man would change his gender... someone please explain to me. Why??

Either they have a ***** and want a ****** or they have a ****** and want a *****.

[KevinNYC]

Why? Ill never understand why a man would change his gender... someone please explain to me. Why??

Do you understand it the other way, when a woman changes their gender?

[hoopaddict08]

They were born in the wrong body and they feel they need to fix it.

I apologize for my :wtf:post. But I personally just don't accept that. It's a dude wanting to be a female. Seriously, the next step is people believing they are really a dog or tiger. They will get work done to have little floppy ears, and get a nice little tail that wags; it doesn't mean they are a dog.

[RRR3]

It's weird to me too. I mean, if you like men and you're a man, fine, that's just the way you are, and no one should have a problem with that (unfortunately some people do) and you should be free to be with whoever you want to be with. I just don't see the point in changing your gender :confusedshrug:

[Faptastrophe]

Whatever makes him/her happy.

Didn't read the article, but this is hardly news. He began the transformation a loooong time ago

[Knicks101]

I apologize for my :wtf:post. But I personally just don't accept that. It's a dude wanting to be a female. Seriously, the next step is people believing they are really a dog or tiger. They will get work done to have little floppy ears, and get a nice little tail that wags; it doesn't mean they are a dog.

If somebody wants to be a dog, who gives a shit? More power to them. People get worked up over the stupidest things. Just let people be who they want to be, as long as that's not hurting somebody else.

[Myth]

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2012/07/Matrix-Director-Larry-Wachowski-Now-A-She.jpg


I honestly have never even heard of the director until now (not a huge Matrix fan, nor am I a movie buff) but :wtf:

This news is years old. It is the reason they stopped calling them "The Wachowski Bros" and started calling them "The Wachowski's."

[miller-time]

Why? Ill never understand why a man would change his gender... someone please explain to me. Why??

we all start out (developmentally) as females so wouldn't you think occasionally something might go wrong? the brain is the most complex thing known in existence and you can't understand that a minor defect would produce such an outcome? it is like saying "why would someone want to have autism?" or "why would someone want to ride around in a wheelchair their whole life?" they are who they are.


I apologize for my :wtf:post. But I personally just don't accept that. It's a dude wanting to be a female. Seriously, the next step is people believing they are really a dog or tiger. They will get work done to have little floppy ears, and get a nice little tail that wags; it doesn't mean they are a dog.

not really. it is feesable that someone with a Y chromosome might still develop a female brain. they aren't however going to develop a brain that functions like a tiger.

[raiderfan19]

we all start out (developmentally) as females so wouldn't you think occasionally something might go wrong? the brain is the most complex thing known in existence and you can't understand that a minor defect would produce such an outcome? it is like saying "why would someone want to have autism?" or "why would someone want to ride around in a wheelchair their whole life?" they are who they are.



not really. it is feesable that someone with a Y chromosome might still develop a female brain. they aren't however going to develop a brain that functions like a tiger.
There is something wrong with them though if they do this. It's mutilation, plain and simple

[Myth]

There is something wrong with them though if they do this. It's mutilation, plain and simple

If it makes them happy to change though, then let them. I see no problem with that, because it doesn't hurt anybody.

[miller-time]

There is something wrong with them though if they do this. It's mutilation, plain and simple

i'm not a big fan of the surgical aspect of this issue either. but i am not them, and if they feel strongly enough to do it and there are people willing to accept them on that physical level then who am i to say they are wrong? we can't tell them how they are supposed to feel or what to do with their bodies.

i'd imagine it is highly regulated though. you wouldn't be able to just pop in and have your ***** cut up. you probably need to do a battery of psych evaluations and what not before you can have one, plus there would be age and financial restrictions. it isn't like going in for an appendectomy.

[NuggetsFan]

Can't be any worse than Speed Racer :lol

[TheeBeast]

I apologize for my :wtf:post. But I personally just don't accept that. It's a dude wanting to be a female. Seriously, the next step is people believing they are really a dog or tiger. They will get work done to have little floppy ears, and get a nice little tail that wags; it doesn't mean they are a dog.

What do you not accept? I don't see how its even anyone's business :confusedshrug: , Its his body let him/her do what they want to it as long as they aren't harming someone else..

[DuMa]

this explains why reloaded and revolutions sucked ass :mad:

[KevinNYC]

This news is years old. It is the reason they stopped calling them "The Wachowski Bros" and started calling them "The Wachowski's."

The news is that he is confirming the rumors and promoted his movie (oops,)
her movie as a woman. I think he-she avoided the press last time around.


It's weird to me too. I mean, if you like men and you're a man, fine, that's just the way you are, and no one should have a problem with that (unfortunately some people do) and you should be free to be with whoever you want to be with. I just don't see the point in changing your gender

It's weird to me too, but I can also see that it's a genuine desire that a lot of folks have. Do you see my point? It's not, not weird. It would feel completely wierd for me and it's not my desire, but it's real for some folks.

It's a different thing from being a gay man, just like there are straight men who want to dress up like women and are not attracted to men. In fact, I believe Lana is still attracted to women. Or that was the case when the rumors first started going around.

[bagelred]

He should have taken the blue pill.

[Scoooter]

In the future, after the full flowering of technologies like virtual reality, brain-computer interfaces, and nanotechnology, we'll be changing our faces and bodies just as easily as we currently change our clothing.

People like this are just going early.


I apologize for my post. But I personally just don't accept that. It's a dude wanting to be a female.

Seriously, the next step is people believing they are really a dog or tiger. They will get work done to have little floppy ears, and get a nice little tail that wags; it doesn't mean they are a dog.
Haven't spent much time on the internet (http://funnybest.com/archives/326), have you?

http://www.shotbykevin.com/2_galleries/portraits/photos/previews/26-Stalking%20Catp.jpg

[rezznor]

I apologize for my :wtf:post. But I personally just don't accept that. It's a dude wanting to be a female. Seriously, the next step is people believing they are really a dog or tiger. They will get work done to have little floppy ears, and get a nice little tail that wags; it doesn't mean they are a dog.
http://artblooms.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/tigerman.jpg



http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTs8DsG5EvLSjoQk2R32rLd95DFPmZz2-uzT7p_W9-sv-4xpz-GvECFP5yf5A

[TheeBeast]

:roll: :roll:

[artex]

niqqa shoulda took the red pill like neo n played it safe

[D-Wade316]

I apologize for my :wtf:post. But I personally just don't accept that. It's a dude wanting to be a female. Seriously, the next step is people believing they are really a dog or tiger. They will get work done to have little floppy ears, and get a nice little tail that wags; it doesn't mean they are a dog.
I've heard this before. ****ing retarded. :facepalm

[PullupJay]

niqqa shoulda took the red pill like neo n played it safe
:roll:

[RoseCity07]

Good for her.

[InspiredLebowski]

Whatever makes him/her happy.

Didn't read the article, but this is hardly news. He began the transformation a loooong time agoGonna say, wasn't she undergoing the hormone treatments and all that during the last Matrix?

[raiderfan19]

For the people saying its his/her body let her do with it what she wants, do you also believe we should let people cut themselves? They are both mutilations resulting from a mental illness.(I'm not talking about killing themselves, I'm saying the guys who just cut themselves but not enough to kill themselves)

[InspiredLebowski]

For the people saying its his/her body let her do with it what she wants, do you also believe we should let people cut themselves? They are both mutilations resulting from a mental illness.(I'm not talking about killing themselves, I'm saying the guys who just cut themselves but not enough to kill themselves)You honestly can't think it's the same thing, right?

[SourPatchKids]

Awww darn.... I'm an ostrich trapped in a boy's body. Wtf do i do?

[Scoooter]

Awww darn.... I'm an ostrich trapped in a boy's body. Wtf do i do?
In about 20 years they'll have a pill for that. Just sit tight.

[raiderfan19]

You honestly can't think it's the same thing, right?
It's not exactly the same thing but it's pretty damn close.

[InspiredLebowski]

It's not exactly the same thing but it's pretty damn close.No, it's not. People cut themselves because, generally, they have a lack of self worth. People undergo gender reassignment to try and match their physical characteristics to their psychological longings. Transsexuals also aren't hiding in a dark corner of their room dicing up their genitalia then wearing long sleeves the way cutters usually do. They go through years, and years, of psychological and physical treatment to have a highly trained professional performed the surgery. It's not some irrational instantaneous decision based on in the moment emotions. ****ed up, in the realest sense of the phrase? You bet. Doesn't make them the same.

[raiderfan19]

It's the mutilation of their body because of a mental illness. That makes it at the most basic level, very similar. Perhaps I should have used someone who scratches themselves thinking they are covered with spiders but either way it's pretty similar.

It doesn't effect me in the least though and I'll still watch his movies(he's still a he) as long as they are good.

[Scoooter]

It's the mutilation of their body because of a mental illness. That makes it at the most basic level, very similar. Perhaps I should have used someone who scratches themselves thinking they are covered with spiders but either way it's pretty similar.

It doesn't effect me in the least though and I'll still watch his movies(he's still a he) as long as they are good.
This seems prejudiced to me. It's like calling Muhammad Ali "Cassius Clay".

[raiderfan19]

This seems prejudiced to me. It's like calling Muhammad Ali "Cassius Clay".
No it isn't. He can call himself whatever he likes, he can't change what he fundamentally is though. He's not a she anymore than the tiger woman is a tiger.

[macmac]

No it isn't. He can call himself whatever he likes, he can't change what he fundamentally is though. He's not a she anymore than the tiger woman is a tiger.

So you don't think you'll ever stop being a moron? :confusedshrug:

[raiderfan19]

I'm far from a moron. I don't have a huge problem with him doing it. I just feel sorry for him.

[ukplayer4]

good info, about 4 years late

[Tenchi Ryu]

good info, about 4 years late
I swear, how is this news?

I could have SWORN this shit happened a while back.

[miller-time]

No it isn't. He can call himself whatever he likes, he can't change what he fundamentally is though. He's not a she anymore than the tiger woman is a tiger.

her brain is anatomically and functionally the same or similar to a females. the tiger woman's is not similar to a tiger on any level.

[loot]

Wow, well I hope he knows:


http://i.qkme.me/3ocqzg.jpg








Just Kidding
































.

[Clippersfan86]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1199633/boshshower_medium.gif

His name is on the list for re-assignment as well.

[raiderfan19]

My problem with this has nothing to do with whether or not he's gay(I actually think he likes women?) he can have sex with and or dress like whomever he wants.

[Knicks101]

Being transgender is not a mental illness.

I believe it's considered a mental disorder.

[ShaqAttack3234]

So wait....we can't take what substances we want, but it's perfectly ok to chop off your dick, rearrange all kinds of shit, take hormones...pretty much disfigure yourself into some kind of circus freak?

It's mental illness as far as I'm concerned and nobody can tell me otherwise. It's no different to me than skinny people starving themselves because they're convinced they're fat. Yet that isn't considered ok, as it shouldn't be.

But when sex is involved everyone is too scared to say anything because of political correctness.

I saw a man on TV who for some reason hated his leg, asked countless surgeons to remove it, and when they wouldn't, he had it frozen so it had to be amputated. Then...he was happy.

I saw another man whose dream was to be a paraplegic. It's no different to me. There are just less people with this particular delusion.

Where do we draw the line?

And you can have any surgery you want, it still won't make a man a woman as far as I'm concerned.

But hey, you got Tiger man running around so sit back and enjoy the freak show. I wonder if he's crazy enough to try living with real tigers?

[KevinNYC]

So the Wachowski brothers are now the Wachowski brothers and sisters?

He didn't get cloned. He just changed his gender, they didn't make extra siblings.

[KevinNYC]

I swear, how is this news?

I could have SWORN this shit happened a while back.

Again. The news is two things.

A. That he has completed the transition to a woman.
B. That he is appearing publically as a woman.

Here's a story from 2008. (http://gawker.com/388089/the-wachowskis-still-in-hiding-as-speed-racer-circles-the-drain)

[QUOTE]The Wachowskis Still in Hiding as

[DCL]

it's his life, so whatever.

but it's still sick and gross as hell.

it's like someone eating a piece of dog shit. if they want to do it, whatever floats his boat. none of my business. doesn't concern my life.

but it still doesn't change the fact that it's phucking retarded.

[AlphaWolf24]

So wait....we can't take what substances we want, but it's perfectly ok to chop off your dick, rearrange all kinds of shit, take hormones...pretty much disfigure yourself into some kind of circus freak?

It's mental illness as far as I'm concerned and nobody can tell me otherwise. It's no different to me than skinny people starving themselves because they're convinced they're fat. Yet that isn't considered ok, as it shouldn't be.

But when sex is involved everyone is too scared to say anything because of political correctness.

I saw a man on TV who for some reason hated his leg, asked countless surgeons to remove it, and when they wouldn't, he had it frozen so it had to be amputated. Then...he was happy.

I saw another man whose dream was to be a paraplegic. It's no different to me. There are just less people with this particular delusion.

Where do we draw the line?

And you can have any surgery you want, it still won't make a man a woman as far as I'm concerned.

But hey, you got Tiger man running around so sit back and enjoy the freak show. I wonder if he's crazy enough to try living with real tigers?


:lol :rockon:

[CelticBaller]

:lol

[lakers_forever]

Being transgender is not a mental illness.

It is considered a mental disorder by the ICD (International Classification of Diseases published by the the United Nations-sponsored World Health Organization) and DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association).

[SilkkTheShocker]

At the end of the day he is just a freak with a mutilated p.enis

[miller-time]

It's mental illness as far as I'm concerned and nobody can tell me otherwise. It's no different to me than skinny people starving themselves because they're convinced they're fat. Yet that isn't considered ok, as it shouldn't be.

you don't see a difference?

skinny people are not born with the desire to starve themselves, it is acquired over time. transgender people usually know they are in the "wrong" body from a very early age. it isn't acquired psychosocially.

some of you people are either trolling or are really ****ing dense. they have different brain structures to normal men.

[raiderfan19]

And that different structure is a mental illness

[D-Rose]

Most of the people in this thread are incredibly stupid, sheltered, and ignorant. These people are born this way, as are homosexuals. There is very little nurture that leads to this, but they very much feel they are born into the wrong body.

And unless your damn Christ, Muhammad, Buddha, Yaweh, Jehovah, etc didn't say there was anything wrong it, most of you would be indifferent. Get over it, it's 2012 and the world is becoming more accepting.

[D-Rose]

So wait....we can't take what substances we want, but it's perfectly ok to chop off your dick, rearrange all kinds of shit, take hormones...pretty much disfigure yourself into some kind of circus freak?

It's mental illness as far as I'm concerned and nobody can tell me otherwise. It's no different to me than skinny people starving themselves because they're convinced they're fat. Yet that isn't considered ok, as it shouldn't be.

But when sex is involved everyone is too scared to say anything because of political correctness.

I saw a man on TV who for some reason hated his leg, asked countless surgeons to remove it, and when they wouldn't, he had it frozen so it had to be amputated. Then...he was happy.

I saw another man whose dream was to be a paraplegic. It's no different to me. There are just less people with this particular delusion.

Where do we draw the line?

And you can have any surgery you want, it still won't make a man a woman as far as I'm concerned.

But hey, you got Tiger man running around so sit back and enjoy the freak show. I wonder if he's crazy enough to try living with real tigers?

Wow, you seem so intelligent in the NBA forum, and then I read this? :wtf:

[-p.tiddy-]

I have an honest question maybe one of you can answer

I fully believe 100% these people are born this way, and I have heard them even say plenty of times that they have always felt like they were born in the wrong body...

so how exactly is this different from homosexuals?...there are plenty of studies out that show homosexuals are born with a "female brain"...so what is it that puts them into a different category?

[D-Rose]

I have an honest question maybe one of you can answer

I fully believe 100% these people are born this way, and I have heard them even say plenty of times that they have always felt like they were born in the wrong body...

so how exactly is this different from homosexuals?...there are plenty of studies out that show homosexuals are born with a "female brain"...so what is it that puts them into a different category?
well a homosexual man has characteristics in his brain that are more similar to a woman. and i may be wrong, but there is a higher level of estrogen in them as well. but to me the difference is that homosexuals are comfortable in the body they are in, yet attracted to those of the same gender. transexuals are not comfortable in their own body so they change and are attracted to the same gender that they were born into, but not the gender that they truly are mentally, psychologically, and spiritually.

[-p.tiddy-]

well a homosexual man has characteristics in his brain that are more similar to a woman. and i may be wrong, but there is a higher level of estrogen in them as well. but to me the difference is that homosexuals are comfortable in the body they are in, yet attracted to those of the same gender. transexuals are not comfortable in their own body so they change and are attracted to the same gender that they were born into, but not the gender that they truly are mentally, psychologically, and spiritually.
so they are both born the exact same way...but one is comfortable as a male and the other isn't :confusedshrug:

[D-Rose]

so they are both born the exact same way...but one is comfortable as a male and the other isn't :confusedshrug:
i wouldn't say it's that simple. a homosexual man feels like a man, just like any man on this forum does. a transexual born into a man's body feels like a woman in every way except physically.

[miller-time]

well a homosexual man has characteristics in his brain that are more similar to a woman. and i may be wrong, but there is a higher level of estrogen in them as well. but to me the difference is that homosexuals are comfortable in the body they are in, yet attracted to those of the same gender. transexuals are not comfortable in their own body so they change and are attracted to the same gender that they were born into, but not the gender that they truly are mentally, psychologically, and spiritually.

not necessarily though. you can change gender and still be attracted to the gender you changed to.

but you are right, homosexuals also have statistically significant differences in their brains too compared to heterosexuals. but there are probably differences between homosexuals and transgender people as well. one has a problem with sexual attraction and the other has a problem with gender identity (which may or may not be coupled with sexual attraction).

[Myth]

I believe it's considered a mental disorder.

It is not. I am working on my doctorate in clinical psychology, and it has not been considered a mental disorder for a while now.

Edit: (this answer is more clearly clarified in my next post)

[Myth]

It is considered a mental disorder by the ICD (International Classification of Diseases published by the the United Nations-sponsored World Health Organization) and DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association).

Gender Identity Disorder is a conflict between a person's physical gender and the gender he or she identifies as. This more related to depression than anything. However, getting the surgery can make somebody fine with their new physical gender and the gender he or she identifies with, thus they are cured by the surgery.

[Skywalker]

kill it with fire

[Myth]

not necessarily though. you can change gender and still be attracted to the gender you changed to.



Yep, one's gender identity and any changes they seek have nothing to do with who they are sexually attracted to.

[D-Rose]

Yep, one's gender identity and any changes they seek have nothing to do with who they are sexually attracted to.
Interesting, never looked at it that way.

:cheers:

[Myth]

Threads like this make me want to find a transsexual person and give them a hug so they know not everybody is hateful, ignorant, or grossed out by them.

[CelticBaller]

Most of the people in this thread are incredibly stupid, sheltered, and ignorant. These people are born this way, as are homosexuals. There is very little nurture that leads to this, but they very much feel they are born into the wrong body.

And unless your damn Christ, Muhammad, Buddha, Yaweh, Jehovah, etc didn't say there was anything wrong it, most of you would be indifferent. Get over it, it's 2012 and the world is becoming more accepting.
Christ never commented on gays, why bring religion though? I' m pretty sure people are grossed out by it even if they aren't religious. Oh I forgot religion is the root of all evil :oldlol:

[Myth]

Christ never commented on gays, why bring religion though? I' m pretty sure people are grossed out by it even if they aren't religious. Oh I forgot religion is the root of all evil :oldlol:

Christ is not the issue, but many of his followers seem to think that the LGBTQ community are inherently evil or some shit like that. That is where religion comes into play here. Religious nuts are the biggest reason this community still struggles to be accepted.

[D-Rose]

Christ never commented on gays, why bring religion though? I' m pretty sure people are grossed out by it even if they aren't religious. Oh I forgot religion is the root of all evil :oldlol:
What Myth said. If people actually followed the "teachings" or whatever of Jesus Christ, there would be a lot more good in this world. He wouldn't be one to judge gays or transexuals. But I do get that a lot of people are grossed out that aren't religious, but usually it's not that way.

[RoseCity07]

So wait....we can't take what substances we want, but it's perfectly ok to chop off your dick, rearrange all kinds of shit, take hormones...pretty much disfigure yourself into some kind of circus freak?

It's mental illness as far as I'm concerned and nobody can tell me otherwise. It's no different to me than skinny people starving themselves because they're convinced they're fat. Yet that isn't considered ok, as it shouldn't be.

But when sex is involved everyone is too scared to say anything because of political correctness.

I saw a man on TV who for some reason hated his leg, asked countless surgeons to remove it, and when they wouldn't, he had it frozen so it had to be amputated. Then...he was happy.

I saw another man whose dream was to be a paraplegic. It's no different to me. There are just less people with this particular delusion.

Where do we draw the line?

And you can have any surgery you want, it still won't make a man a woman as far as I'm concerned.

But hey, you got Tiger man running around so sit back and enjoy the freak show. I wonder if he's crazy enough to try living with real tigers?

So is believing that there is a man in the sky controlling everything and a place called heaven and hell. Religion is mass delusion as well yet millions of people think God is real.

What we think and feel is regulated by chemicals in the brain. These people cannot help the way they feel. These surgeries harm no one and give a lot of these people peace of mind. All it takes to understand this is a moment of empathy. Put yourself in these peoples shoes, don't judge them based on what you feel, because you are not them.

[CelticBaller]

Every community has its extremists and nuts

[D-Rose]

So is believing that there is a man in the sky controlling everything and a place called heaven and hell. Religion is mass delusion as well yet millions of people think God is real.

What we think and feel is regulated by chemicals in the brain. These people cannot help the way they feel. These surgeries harm no one and give a lot of these people peace of mind. All it takes to understand this is a moment of empathy. Put yourself in these peoples shoes, don't judge them based on what you feel, because you are not them.
:applause:

Completely agree about religion. :oldlol:

[ace23]

What Myth said. If people actually followed the "teachings" or whatever of Jesus Christ, there would be a lot more good in this world. He wouldn't be one to judge gays or transexuals. But I do get that a lot of people are grossed out that aren't religious, but usually it's not that way.
Has nothing to do with religion. Which holy book discusses gender reassignment surgery? :oldlol:

Transexuality just absolutely disgusts me, has absolutely nothing to do with what I believe in. Homosexuality, which I believe to be a sin, doesn't even make me cringe as gender reassignment does. Has nothing to do with beliefs; it's just nasty as ****.

People who undergo that kind of surgery are not right mentally, whether by nurture or from birth. It's mental illness.

Whatever floats her boat, though. I'm sure she's happier now.

[D-Rose]

Has nothing to do with religion. Which holy book discusses gender reassignment surgery? :oldlol:

Transexuality just absolutely disgusts me, has absolutely nothing to do with what I believe in. Homosexuality, which I believe to be a sin, doesn't even make me cringe as gender reassignment does. Has nothing to do with beliefs; it's just nasty as ****.

People who undergo that kind of surgery are not right mentally, whether by nurture or from birth. It's mental illness.

Whatever floats her boat, though. I'm sure she's happier now.
A lot of people would be more open minded if they weren't bound by the laws and views of their religion, but not all of course. it just takes empathy and understanding to truly not judge people like this. mental illness :oldlol:

[RoseCity07]

Has nothing to do with religion. Which holy book discusses gender reassignment surgery? :oldlol:

Transexuality just absolutely disgusts me, has absolutely nothing to do with what I believe in. Homosexuality, which I believe to be a sin, doesn't even make me cringe as gender reassignment does. Has nothing to do with beliefs; it's just nasty as ****.

People who undergo that kind of surgery are not right mentally, whether by nurture or from birth. It's mental illness.

Whatever floats her boat, though. I'm sure she's happier now.

Some people think black people are dirty and inferior. They think that having black skin means you have something mentally wrong with you. Yes that's right, some think having black skin is a biological trait of crooks and bad people.

I'm not trying to talk down to you but you desperately need an education. You should really go to school and stop thinking the bible teaches everything you need to know. It's one book. Imagine if a child based his entire knowledge of the universe off a coloring book. One book cannot possibly teach you everything you need to know.

It's nonsense to talk about what is and isn't a sin. It's arrogant too. You should always question your assumptions. Question why you think it's a sin, then question those reasons you come up with.

[ace23]

Some people think black people are dirty and inferior. They think that having black skin means you have something mentally wrong with you. Yes that's right, some think having black skin is a biological trait of crooks and bad people.

I'm not trying to talk down to you but you desperately need an education. You should really go to school and stop thinking the bible teaches everything you need to know. It's one book. Imagine if a child based his entire knowledge of the universe off a coloring book. One book cannot possibly teach you everything you need to know.

It's nonsense to talk about what is and isn't a sin. It's arrogant too. You should always question your assumptions. Question why you think it's a sin, then question those reasons you come up with.
Dude, why are you still babbling on on your anti-religious tangent. Haha, I said the fact that this disgusts me has nothing to do with my beliefs.

[ace23]

A lot of people would be more open minded if they weren't bound by the laws and views of their religion, but not all of course. it just takes empathy and understanding to truly not judge people like this. mental illness :oldlol:
If you think you are something that you're not, I'd say you're ill. :confusedshrug:

[DCL]

you see the same posters. just the same bunch of closet (rhymes with bags) defending this gross sh!t. :lol

[RoseCity07]

Dude, why are you still babbling on on your anti-religious tangent. Haha, I said the fact that this disgusts me has nothing to do with my beliefs.



Homosexuality, which I believe to be a sin,

I was commenting on this part. You brought up your beliefs when talking about homosexuality. This is evidence that you think it's a bad thing to be a homosexual. It's not a stretch to think you dislike anything that is a "sin". Now are you going to say there is nothing wrong with sinning.

[ace23]

I was commenting on this part. You brought up your beliefs when talking about homosexuality. This is evidence that you think it's a bad thing to be a homosexual. It's not a stretch to think you dislike anything that is a "sin". Now are you going to say there is nothing wrong with sinning.
Just showing you that even something I believe is morally improper doesn't disgust me as much as transsexuals do. That's all.

[RoseCity07]

Just showing you that even something I believe is morally improper doesn't disgust me as much as transsexuals do. That's all.

What's immoral about two consenting adults having sex with each other? Do you want people telling you what you can do with your body. What if you grew up in a world where homosexuality was as prevalent as heterosexuality is today? Would you sleep with men because it's normal? Can you choose to like men?

[ace23]

What's immoral about two consenting adults having sex with each other? Do you want people telling you what you can do with your body. What if you grew up in a world where homosexuality was as prevalent as heterosexuality is today? Would you sleep with men because it's normal? Can you choose to like men?
Didn't say they can't do it, but it's wrong. I don't care what kind of weird shit they do as long as they don't allude to it around me.

No one is born gay in my opinion. Yes, every homo chose to like men at some point in his life.

[RoseCity07]

Didn't say they can't do it, but it's wrong. I don't care what kind of weird shit they do as long as they don't allude to it around me.

No one is born gay in my opinion. Yes, every homo chose to like men at some point in his life.

You didn't answer my question, why is it wrong?


Also,you just admitted that you choose to like women. I don't know if you know this but most men are just attracted to women and not because they are suppose to be. I would be attracted to females no matter what. I don't tell myself what to feel it just happens.

The fact that you make a conscious choice to like female may be a sign that you are gay. By your logic you could make the choice to sleep with men and like it.

[ace23]

Not sure what logic you used to suggest that I might enjoy sex with a man, but it sure ain't mine. :lol I was born heterosexual.

Not going to tell you why I believe homosexuality is wrong here, that's for another thread/time.

[RoseCity07]

Not sure what logic you used to suggest that I might enjoy sex with a man, but it sure ain't mine. :lol I was born heterosexual.

Not going to tell you why I believe homosexuality is wrong here, that's for another thread/time.

How long have you been sitting at your keyboard thinking of a response that you knew wouldn't work? :lol

Not sure what logic I'm using...What? Is that what passes for an answer? Is this what you got away with in school? I'm not sure what the answer is so I'll just leave it blank.

The logic is that you said gay people make a choice to sleep with the same sex, which means the choose to like it. Which means we choose what we like. Which means you choose to like females. Which means that you could choose to like males. That is the logic. Step by step for you.

It's not for another thread, I asked you these simple questions and knew you wouldn't be able to answer. Why did I know this? There is no reasonable answer that you come up with for why homosexuality is wrong. It isn't.

[ace23]

Not sure what logic I'm using...What? Is that what passes for an answer? Is this what you got away with in school? I'm not sure what the answer is so I'll just leave it blank.

The logic is that you said gay people make a choice to sleep with the same sex, which means the choose to like it. Which means we choose what we like. Which means you choose to like females. Which means that you could choose to like males. That is the logic. Step by step for you.
Those gays were born heterosexual, though. They made a conscious decision to defy nature.

Nice try, bro. :oldlol:

[RoseCity07]

Those gays were born heterosexual, though. They made a conscious decision to defy nature.

Nice try, bro. :oldlol:

You just got done arguing that sexuality is a choice. As in heterosexual males that make the choice to have sex with males are gay.

That's my point. If everyone that is gay makes a choice to be gay (because as you said they are born straight) then you are also making a choice to be attracted to females.

You just got caught in a contradiction. You just now wrote that gay men are born heterosexual. Earlier you said we choose our sexuality. Hahaha which is it? "Nice try, bro"...you just lost your argument.

[ace23]

Why is this so hard for you to wrap your head around?

You can stray from straight path and become gay if you want. Most normal folks don't, so they live their lives as heterosexuals.

It I was born heterosexual, I'm not making the choice to be heterosexual myself; gays on the other hand do make the choice to go against the grain.

Think of it like being born a male: If you decide to alter things that are not meant to be toyed with, you're choosing to become a woman. Would leaving everything normal be choosing to be a man?

"You might secretly enjoy life as a woman!" in my RoseCity voice. :facepalm :oldlol:

[miller-time]

Why is this so hard for you to wrap your head around?

You can stray from straight path and become gay if you want. Most normal folks don't, so they live their lives as heterosexuals.

It I was born heterosexual, I'm not making the choice to be heterosexual myself; gays on the other hand do make the choice to go against the grain.

Think of it like being born a male: If you decide to alter things that are not meant to be toyed with, you're choosing to become a woman. Would leaving everything normal be choosing to be a man?

"You might secretly enjoy life as a woman!" in my RoseCity voice. :facepalm :oldlol:

so how do you account for differences in brain structure between gay people and straight people? did they (gay men) choose to have brains with substrates that are anatomically the same as females?

[ace23]

so how do you account for differences in brain structure between gay people and straight people? did they (gay men) choose to have brains with substrates that are anatomically the same as females?
Not a neuroscientist, but why can't they have? Surely, they were not born this way.

[RoseCity07]

Why is this so hard for you to wrap your head around?

You can stray from straight path and become gay if you want. Most normal folks don't, so they live their lives as heterosexuals.

It I was born heterosexual, I'm not making the choice to be heterosexual myself; gays on the other hand do make the choice to go against the grain.

Think of it like being born a male: If you decide to alter things that are not meant to be toyed with, you're choosing to become a woman. Would leaving everything normal be choosing to be a man?

"You might secretly enjoy life as a woman!" in my RoseCity voice. :facepalm :oldlol:

Straight path? :oldlol: Now sexuality is a path. Sounds like you heard that one from a preacher. Now you're telling me what normal folks do as if you're the expert on what is "normal". Sounds like you have a bit of a god complex yourself. You decide what's normal? Or you just listen to what the bible says is normal?

You know you make 0 sense right. So you yourself don't make a choice to like females but the rest of the population does. You are special right? I'm having a hard time detangling what you're even trying to say.


"If I'm born hetersexual" You just said it again. By your very own words it's all a choice so I don't understand where this IF business comes from. We all just grow up and choose according to you.

You need to decide which side you are on. You can't write IF you were born this way or that way when you got done saying that it's all a choice.

[Myth]

You gotta admit though, it's really really weird.

I find it strange in the sense that I would never do it in a million years, but I am also 100% supportive of it.

[ace23]

Hey, Genius, you can be born heterosexual and decide to go gay later on. Are you confused? :roll:

[Myth]

Why is this so hard for you to wrap your head around?

You can stray from straight path and become gay if you want. Most normal folks don't, so they live their lives as heterosexuals.

It I was born heterosexual, I'm not making the choice to be heterosexual myself; gays on the other hand do make the choice to go against the grain.

Think of it like being born a male: If you decide to alter things that are not meant to be toyed with, you're choosing to become a woman. Would leaving everything normal be choosing to be a man?

"You might secretly enjoy life as a woman!" in my RoseCity voice. :facepalm :oldlol:

Why the f*ck would a person choose to be part of a discriminated group? What motivation is there to choose that?

[Myth]

Straight path? :oldlol: Now sexuality is a path. Sounds like you heard that one from a preacher. Now you're telling me what normal folks do as if you're the expert on what is "normal". Sounds like you have a bit of a god complex yourself. You decide what's normal? Or you just listen to what the bible says is normal?

You know you make 0 sense right. So you yourself don't make a choice to like females but the rest of the population does. You are special right? I'm having a hard time detangling what you're even trying to say.


"If I'm born hetersexual" You just said it again. By your very own words it's all a choice so I don't understand where this IF business comes from. We all just grow up and choose according to you.

You need to decide which side you are on. You can't write IF you were born this way or that way when you got done saying that it's all a choice.

I believe ace is trying to say all people are born inherently heterosexual, and some choose to go against their nature of being straight. I completely disagree with him, but that is what he is arguing.

[ace23]

Why the f*ck would a person choose to be part of a discriminated group? What motivation is there to choose that?
Something triggers the perversion obviously. You don't just choose on a whim.

[TheeBeast]

Honestly... If you helped make The Matrix and V for Vendetta I don't care wtf you do to your body, I'll still respect you.

[RoseCity07]

Hey, Genius, you can be born heterosexual and decide to go gay later on. Are you confused? :roll:


To my understanding what you are saying it that you could choose to "go gay" later on. You said everyone is born heterosexual and that what makes a person gay is the choice to go gay. I want to know if you agree with this. Since it's a choice, you could choose to go gay later on even though you are a straight man?

You can't have it both ways. You either have to admit that you are attracted to females by choice or you are attracted to females because you were born that way.

So which is it? If you truly believe it's a choice then that is fine. Either one is fine by me. All I'm saying is that I am attracted to females and I can't make myself sexually attracted to males. It isn't a choice for me to be straight. Maybe it is for you...

[miller-time]

Not a neuroscientist, but why can't they have? Surely, they were not born this way.

you don't need to be a neuroscientist to understand that 1. changes in anatomy and physiology will affect behaviour, and 2. anatomical development is determined by genes and/or in utero environmental factors.

conversely the brain DOESN'T change like this just because a person wants to start being gay.

[RoseCity07]

I believe ace is trying to say all people are born inherently heterosexual, and some choose to go against their nature of being straight. I completely disagree with him, but that is what he is arguing.


Yeah and that makes 0 sense. That's like saying I am only attracted to females but I'm attracted to males. That kind of thinking doesn't make any sense because of the English language. With that logic you could argue that we're all born homosexual but most men are women go against this urge and sleep with each other anyway.

To me though, I understand this kind of thinking if you're a psychopath and you don't actually experience feelings. Imagine not being able to actually feel true attraction to someone so you just like the opposite sex to fit in.

[Myth]

Honestly... If you helped make The Matrix and V for Vendetta I don't care wtf you do to your body, I'll still respect you.

:lol Solid response. And even though you say that with a bit of humor, it leads to how I view it as well: Your business is your business, while what you do towards or for others is all that matters to me.

[ace23]

you don't need to be a neuroscientist to understand that 1. changes in anatomy and physiology will affect behaviour, and 2. anatomical development is determined by genes and/or in utero environmental factors.

conversely the brain DOESN'T change like this just because a person wants to start being gay.
I'll read up on it.

RoseCity, we're going in circles. What I've laid out would not be difficult for a 5th grader to comprehend. Keep playing dumb, dude. Good night.

I'll leave you with this:

The fact that you're born a certain way does not mean that can't change.

[RoseCity07]

I'll read up on it.

RoseCity, we're going in circles. What I've laid out would not be difficult for a 5th grader to comprehend. Keep playing dumb, dude. Good night.

Myth summarized it pretty well and it is still a extremely ignorant stance to take. Only someone that was indoctrinated to those beliefs could write such an argument. I'm not trying to change your beliefs either I'm just saying question your assumptions. Don't listen to me actually. Not to long ago people fighting for civil rights went up against people like you.

[eriX]

thank you for all those arguing against the people who think that this is "gross".

I don't think they understand that some mental disorders are different to others. Depression, OCD or schizophrenia are often acquired through repetitive exposure to events and experiences that would shape the way they think and can have profound effect on the brain functions. What people also don't understand is that most of our personality, beliefs, morals and behaviour are learnt, they are not innate. The really only innate thing we acquired from birth is our survival instincts such as flight or fight, food and reproduction. When someone has doubts about themselves with their sexuality, that could cause some serious issues. The best we can do is help them be comfortable with who they are cause im not sure there treatment methods/ if needed at all.

Its all i can give as a first year psy student :oldlol:

[raiderfan19]

I will say this about transsexual vs homosexuality. I am a Christian so I believe homosexuality is a sin. What that means is that per my religious beliefs I shouldn't/can't be homosexual. Doesn't make my belief structure any more valid than anyone else's(though I think I have the correct one, everyone has a right to their own) and it doesn't give me any moral authority to pass judgement on anyone else.

The issue I have with transsexualism is that it is literally mutilating the body to fit a mental illness. I dont think that should be an accepted medical practice.

[miller-time]

The issue I have with transsexualism is that it is literally mutilating the body to fit a mental illness. I dont think that should be an accepted medical practice.

i'm not completely comfortable with it either. but you have to consider the persons own life.

you would have to be going through some serious distress or unhappiness to consider taking this course of action. it isn't a whimsical decision. and if this is the only thing that can alleviate that unhappiness isn't it worth them doing it? if it means they will be happy (or actually feeling normal) for the rest of their life why shouldn't it be an acceptable procedure?

as i said before, it is the final stage. you don't just jump in an get the whole thing done in one afternoon. you need to see mental health professionals and doctors to determine whether you are eligible and capable of making such a decision.

you are saying it is done to fit a mental illness but what do you do if that illness cannot be reversed? do you let them spend the rest of their life in a state of confusion or do you allow them to move forward and get the surgery?

[raiderfan19]

I try to fix the illness. I'm not sure we can, but i think it's worth it to try

[miller-time]

I try to fix the illness. I'm not sure we can, but i think it's worth it to try

i'm not sure of any attempts, but we know it doesn't work for homosexuals, so i'd say it is just as likely that any type of psychological therapy will be just as ineffective for transsexuals.

but my question was, if the problem isn't able to be overcome - would you prefer them to have the surgery or not?

[raiderfan19]

i'm not sure of any attempts, but we know it doesn't work for homosexuals, so i'd say it is just as likely that any type of psychological therapy will be just as ineffective for transsexuals.

but my question was, if the problem isn't able to be overcome - would you prefer them to have the surgery or not?
No but it's a tough situation

[KingBeasley08]

simply nasty as hell.. i know a bunch of people on this site disagree but that's just how I feel

[D-Rose]

I don't blame people for thinking homosexuals make the choice to be gay, I used to think that too. But that was what I was told being raised up and such. and then came the truth.

There is plenty of scientific research to back up the assertion that homosexuality is not a choice and people are born that way such as differences in homo vs. hetero male brains, twin studies showing high percentage or likelihood of twins in completely different settings being gay, and the amount of genetic influence.

But it's just funny how religious people ignore science, because of course evolution never happened and God put dinosaurs on the earth as a test. :oldlol:

[HylianNightmare]

crazy world

[Raz]

Good for Larry, I mean Lana.

[PullupJay]

I don't blame people for thinking homosexuals make the choice to be gay, I used to think that too. But that was what I was told being raised up and such. and then came the truth.

There is plenty of scientific research to back up the assertion that homosexuality is not a choice and people are born that way such as differences in homo vs. hetero male brains, twin studies showing high percentage or likelihood of twins in completely different settings being gay, and the amount of genetic influence.

But it's just funny how religious people ignore science, because of course evolution never happened and God put dinosaurs on the earth as a test. :oldlol:
Religious jews (not sure about christians and muslims) dont deny dinosaurs ever existed. They believe they died during the great flood that destroyed the whole world except for Noah and his family and 2 of each animal that could fit in the Ark. The only thing they argue against is the claim that they existed millions of years ago as opposed to 4000 years ago. According to all Abrahamic religions the world has only existed for 5773 years.

[D-Rose]

Religious jews (not sure about christians and muslims) dont deny dinosaurs ever existed. They believe they died during the great flood that destroyed the whole world except for Noah and his family and 2 of each animal that could fit in the Ark. The only thing they argue against is the claim that they existed millions of years ago as opposed 4000 years ago. According to all Abrahamic religions the world has only existed for 5773 years.
Well there you go, that's even more absurd.

[KingBeasley08]

Honestly, people belittle religion and find it ridiculous(not me, I'm atheist) and get mad when other people find gender "changing" ridiculous. Don't get it

[-p.tiddy-]

^^^ yep there is irony there

many people that defend homosexuals are also religious bigots



I am not religious but I do strongly believe in freedom of religion, what someone else believes in is their business (just like someone's sexual preference is their business). If they want to believe the Earth was created yesterday that is fine with me, just like if a man would rather have sex with another man that is fine with me.

Both sides should be given respect IMO

[Raz]

I am not religious but I do strongly believe in freedom of religion, what someone else believes in is their business (just like someone's sexual preference is their business). If they want to believe the Earth was created yesterday that is fine with me, just like if a man would rather have sex with another man that is fine with me.

Both sides should be given respect IMO

:applause: Good post, primetime. Glad you changed your tune

[-p.tiddy-]

:applause: Good post, primetime. Glad you changed your tune
what do you mean "changed my tune" ?

[PullupJay]

I believe everyone is entitled to whatever they want to do but there should be a limit. I am against gay marriage not because of biblical reasons but only because I personally find homosexuality disgusting and abomination. I have mixed feelings about the whole "let people do whatever they want as long as it makes them happy".

If it is true that Gay people are born being gay and can't control it, then I guess we have to let them be gay and have their parades and stuff, we cant torture them. If they want to get married im against it but, fine let them get married. But to be proud of them and happy that you live in a country/state that allows it is just ridiculous if you are a straight man.

[upside24]

Pink dreadlocks is not a good choice.
Cutting off your dick is not a good choice.

[rufuspaul]

I believe everyone is entitled to whatever they want to do but there should be a limit. I am against gay marriage not because of biblical reasons but only because I personally find homosexuality disgusting and abomination. I have mixed feelings about the whole "let people do whatever they want as long as it makes them happy".

If it is true that Gay people are born being gay and can't control it, then I guess we have to let them be gay and have their parades and stuff, we cant torture them. If they want to get married im against it but, fine let them get married. But to be proud of them and happy that you live in a country/state that allows it is just ridiculous if you are a straight man.


:oldlol: Nice of you to at least acknowledge that. Your last statement doesn't make any sense. Why would you, as an American not be happy to live in a state that doesn't discriminate against a minority population based on a distorted interpretation of Christianity? I live in Redneck Jesusland and believe me it's embarrassing.

[AlphaWolf24]

I believe everyone is entitled to whatever they want to do but there should be a limit. I am against gay marriage not because of biblical reasons but only because I personally find homosexuality disgusting and abomination. I have mixed feelings about the whole "let people do whatever they want as long as it makes them happy". If it is true that Gay people are born being gay and can't control it, then I guess we have to let them be gay and have their parades and stuff, we cant torture them. If they want to get married im against it but, fine let them get married. But to be proud of them and happy that you live in a country/state that allows it is just ridiculous if you are a straight man.


MURRICA!!

[ImmortalD24]

So wait....we can't take what substances we want, but it's perfectly ok to chop off your dick, rearrange all kinds of shit, take hormones...pretty much disfigure yourself into some kind of circus freak?

It's mental illness as far as I'm concerned and nobody can tell me otherwise. It's no different to me than skinny people starving themselves because they're convinced they're fat. Yet that isn't considered ok, as it shouldn't be.

But when sex is involved everyone is too scared to say anything because of political correctness.

I saw a man on TV who for some reason hated his leg, asked countless surgeons to remove it, and when they wouldn't, he had it frozen so it had to be amputated. Then...he was happy.

I saw another man whose dream was to be a paraplegic. It's no different to me. There are just less people with this particular delusion.

Where do we draw the line?

And you can have any surgery you want, it still won't make a man a woman as far as I'm concerned.

But hey, you got Tiger man running around so sit back and enjoy the freak show. I wonder if he's crazy enough to try living with real tigers?
:applause:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ShaqAttack3234 again.

[PullupJay]

MURRICA!!
say what?

[raiderfan19]

I don't blame people for thinking homosexuals make the choice to be gay, I used to think that too. But that was what I was told being raised up and such. and then came the truth.

There is plenty of scientific research to back up the assertion that homosexuality is not a choice and people are born that way such as differences in homo vs. hetero male brains, twin studies showing high percentage or likelihood of twins in completely different settings being gay, and the amount of genetic influence.

But it's just funny how religious people ignore science, because of course evolution never happened and God put dinosaurs on the earth as a test. :oldlol:Its also funny how non religious people act like science is much more conclusive than it really is. Also that they ignore science when it goes against them.

[D-Rose]

Its also funny how non religious people act like science is much more conclusive than it really is. Also that they ignore science when it goes against them.
I don't ignore anything about science :confusedshrug:

I can see evidence of dinosaurs and evolution and see what they really are, not be clouded by religious judgement and think they're a test from god or noah's ship or whatever other bullshit we're all indoctrined with.

[JaggerCommaMick]

Well see I believe it's alright for this bloke to do whatever he wants to himself. I won't tell him what to do, just the same as I don't want anybody tellin me how much I have to respect it, or tellin me I have to refer to him as a her because he says so, or tellin me I need to be more this or think more of that. He's entitled to his decision for gender surgery, I'm entitled to my decision to laugh at it. If you're about bloody freedom and equality, keep it consistent, mates!

Bloody tolerance police everywhere these days. Let the legislature decide what we must tolerate legally and then let everyone else think whatever about it they want. Some of these sensitivity extremists and their bloody itchy vaginers, I tell ya what mates.

[upside24]

Pink dreadlocks is worse.
:lol

[raiderfan19]

I don't ignore anything about science :confusedshrug:

I can see evidence of dinosaurs and evolution and see what they really are, not be clouded by religious judgement and think they're a test from god or noah's ship or whatever other bullshit we're all indoctrined with.
You do know that macro evolution(everything evolved from the same single celled organisms) isn't possible right??? I only ask because you mentioned evolution.

[JaggerCommaMick]

You do know that macro evolution(everything evolved from the same single celled organisms) isn't possible right??? I only ask because you mentioned evolution.


Well mate, not knowing how it may have happened and calling it impossible are two different things. Beyond that, few people I've ever heard have claimed macro-evolution as a historic fact. It is generally held as a standard theory based on all the evidence science has amassed thus far.

Remember, science takes the evidence first, then draws the conclusion. Religion tends to take the opposite approach, which is far less reliable.

Cheers. :cheers:

[Myth]

I won't become a lady for you, if that's where this is headed.

Pretty please, would you reconsider?


Honestly, people belittle religion and find it ridiculous(not me, I'm atheist) and get mad when other people find gender "changing" ridiculous. Don't get it

I think religion can be great. I am not religious myself, but I have seen it be a wonderful influence in peoples' lives. It gives them meaning and happiness, and some even find it as a motivation to do extra good in the world. The problem is when religious people use their views as justifications to harass others for the way they are, what they believe, or what their lifestyles are. Essentially there are good people and bad people in just about every subgroup of people there are, including: Religious people, athiests, agnostics, heterosexuals, homosexuals, transsexuals, and f*ck it, tiger people too.

[CelticBaller]

Pretty please, would you reconsider?



I think religion can be great. I am not religious myself, but I have seen it be a wonderful influence in peoples' lives. It gives them meaning and happiness, and some even find it as a motivation to do extra good in the world. The problem is when religious people use their views as justifications to harass others for the way they are, what they believe, or what their lifestyles are. Essentially there are good people and bad people in just about every subgroup of people there are, including: Religious people, athiests, agnostics, heterosexuals, homosexuals, transsexuals, and f*ck it, tiger people too.
Tiger man is a bad person? that can't be true :(

[miller-time]

Honestly, people belittle religion and find it ridiculous(not me, I'm atheist) and get mad when other people find gender "changing" ridiculous. Don't get it


^^^ yep there is irony there

many people that defend homosexuals are also religious bigots



I am not religious but I do strongly believe in freedom of religion, what someone else believes in is their business (just like someone's sexual preference is their business). If they want to believe the Earth was created yesterday that is fine with me, just like if a man would rather have sex with another man that is fine with me.

Both sides should be given respect IMO

i'm not even sure where to begin? i guess my first point is who are the bigots? what do they have to do with this discussion or this thread? no one mentioned religion until raiderfan said he was a christian on the previous page and then i didn't even respond to that particular point. are you trying to justify your position by saying people defending transsexuals are also bigoted? because i don't see any other point in stating that.

second, KingBeasley inadvertently called out people opposed to his position as being bigoted towards religion yet makes the very same "ridiculous" bigoted statement not six posts earlier. how is this not a bigoted opinion towards transsexuals?


simply nasty as hell.. i know a bunch of people on this site disagree but that's just how I feel

thirdly and most importantly, being critical of religion is completely different to being accepting of transsexuals or homosexuals. how many times in this thread have i pointed out scientific empirical evidence that shows they are a product of their biology? these are real people dealing with real problems and i am more than willing to defend them - not because i particularly like what they are doing, but because they are what they are and they deserve our acceptance or at least tolerance. simply saying they are "nasty as hell" is the exact opposite of that.

on the other hand, religion is a man made faith based belief system that attempts to describe the world around us in unfalsifiable but authoritative terms. there is plenty to be critical about. apart from the most closed minded religious people everyone knows that there are major problems within specific religions and religion in general. in the same way there are problems with political and economic theories. would you say "it is ridiculous that that guy is bigoted towards communism but accepting of homosexuals." would that really be a ridiculous position to hold? there is nothing wrong or ridiculous about being critical (and i say critical because i haven't seen any bigoted people in this thread and bringing them up would be silly) of religion but accepting of homosexuals. in the same way it wouldn't be ridiculous to be critical of religion and accepting of women who are pregnant and single. furthermore there is more than enough evidence to show that there are real problems with religion, but what data have you guess given US to show that transsexualism is "nasty as hell"?

[CelticBaller]

no one mentioned religion until raiderfan said he was a christian on the previous page and then i didn't even respond to that particular point.
Wrong


Most of the people in this thread are incredibly stupid, sheltered, and ignorant. These people are born this way, as are homosexuals. There is very little nurture that leads to this, but they very much feel they are born into the wrong body.

And unless your damn Christ, Muhammad, Buddha, Yaweh, Jehovah, etc didn't say there was anything wrong it, most of you would be indifferent. Get over it, it's 2012 and the world is becoming more accepting.
From there RoseCity went on a crusade against Ace23 :lol

[miller-time]

Wrong


From there RoseCity went on a crusade against Ace23 :lol

aah ok, i must have skimmed over those points. but still, i don't think that post was "bigoted."

[AK47DR91]

I'm OK with gender transformation as long as he turns into a passable trap.

Lana is not a passable trap, I wouldn't even **** her with Larry's dick.

[Bladers]

you don't see a difference?

skinny people are not born with the desire to starve themselves, it is acquired over time. transgender people usually know they are in the "wrong" body from a very early age. it isn't acquired psychosocially.

some of you people are either trolling or are really ****ing dense. they have different brain structures to normal men.


her brain is anatomically and functionally the same or similar to a females. the tiger woman's is not similar to a tiger on any level.



You have been brainwashed.
It amazes me. The shit you say like its actual facts.

[Bladers]

Most of the people in this thread are incredibly stupid, sheltered, and ignorant. These people are born this way, as are homosexuals. There is very little nurture that leads to this, but they very much feel they are born into the wrong body.

And unless your damn Christ, Muhammad, Buddha, Yaweh, Jehovah, etc didn't say there was anything wrong it, most of you would be indifferent. Get over it, it's 2012 and the world is becoming more accepting.

lol its funny that the view atheist have is. if you don't believe what they believe. you are stupid. very funny indeed.

You could be Einstein. but if you dare say homosexual is wrong. you must be the most retarded individual in the world.

Very interesting portrait of atheism.

[Bladers]

Wow, you seem so intelligent in the NBA forum, and then I read this? :wtf:

The portrait of the mindset of an atheist.

[Scoooter]

If you're not sucking c*cks, then what exactly are you sucking?

[Myth]

I see Bladers has made his grand debut in this thread :lol

[Bladers]

What Myth said. If people actually followed the "teachings" or whatever of Jesus Christ, there would be a lot more good in this world. He wouldn't be one to judge gays or transexuals. But I do get that a lot of people are grossed out that aren't religious, but usually it's not that way.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. (Romans)

Get your facts straight bro.

[Bladers]

so how do you account for differences in brain structure between gay people and straight people? did they (gay men) choose to have brains with substrates that are anatomically the same as females?

Are people also born zoophilier? there are millions of people who **** their pets each day. and many are married to them and they are even now trying to get the laws changed about marriage to an animal.

I could go on and on

Were they also born that way?

You can't pick and choose bro. Its either one or the whole field.

[CelticBaller]

I see Bladers has made his grand debut in this thread :lol
It was inevitable, I thought it would be earlier since they mentioned religion early tho

[miller-time]

You have been brainwashed.
It amazes me. The shit you say like its actual facts.

do you want to demonstrate why i am wrong? or are you just going to point it out?

[RidonKs]

do you want to demonstrate why i am wrong? or are you just going to point it out?
demonstrations are for liberals dood

[TheeBeast]

lol its funny that the view atheist have is. if you don't believe what they believe. you are stupid. very funny indeed.

You could be Einstein. but if you dare say homosexual is wrong. you must be the most retarded individual in the world.

Very interesting portrait of atheism.

That's just a false generalization, most real atheists don't even know/or classify themselves as atheists to begin with.

[raiderfan19]

Miller I know not drose and ace mentioned religion before I did and im pretty sure someone else did. The reason I mentioned religion was actually as much to counter aces position on homosexuality as to counter anything about this.

[Bladers]

That's just a false generalization, most real atheists don't even know/or classify themselves as atheists to begin with.

Look through this thread and every athiest/religion related thread on here. and search for the keyword "stupid" "dumb" "retarded"

and wait for your computer to crash because of the overwhelming usage of it by atheists.

[Myth]

Look through this thread and every athiest/religion related thread on here. and search for the keyword "stupid" "dumb" "retarded"

and wait for your computer to crash because of the overwhelming usage of it by atheists.

That is mostly because they are replying to you in those threads.

[miller-time]

That is mostly because they are replying to you in those threads.

:oldlol: this has been another installment of bladders and his cognitive biases.

[Myth]

:oldlol: this has been another installment of bladders and his cognitive biases.

He sure does piss and moan a lot.

**rim shot**

[ShaqAttack3234]

I can't believe some of the shit in this thread. Comparing this to people who discriminate against blacks? Really? That's one of the more laughable things I've heard. People are actually born with the color of skin they have, and skin color is such an insignificant thing. It's definitely not like people becoming some strange, disgusting cross between a man and a woman. And you are not born grotesque like that. You may be born with some confusion about your sex, but I really don't care.

And it's a lot different than homosexuality too, and I don't have a problem with gays.

You people do realize that people who have family members who were bipolar or schizophrenic have a good chance to suffer from either mental illness themselves. Those people are born like that, it doesn't mean you don't try to help them instead of acting like it isn't a problem

These transsexuals or whatever the **** they arehave something different about their brain, but it sure as hell isn't a good difference, yet they're not mentally ill?

I'd love to be taller, but I'm not going to get limb-lengthening surgery. That to me is a lot more reasonable because you're still a normal human after. But I still think that surgery is pretty ridiculous.

You can be generally tolerant towards people with other skin colors, religions, sexual orientation ect. without having to bhe tolerant of EVERYTHING. I can't believe society has gotten to this point where this is considered ok.

But hey, all it takes is a little empathy,then we can all hold hands, sing and hug. Give me a ****ing break. :oldlol: What a bunch of *******.


you don't see a difference?

skinny people are not born with the desire to starve themselves, it is acquired over time. transgender people usually know they are in the "wrong" body from a very early age. it isn't acquired psychosocially.

some of you people are either trolling or are really ****ing dense. they have different brain structures to normal men.

There are differences as far as what may cause it, but at the end of the day, they're both sick, delusional people with body image problems.

Any man who thinks they shouldn't have a dick is not right in the head. Period.


Wow, you seem so intelligent in the NBA forum, and then I read this? :wtf:

I'm devastated. :cry:


So is believing that there is a man in the sky controlling everything and a place called heaven and hell. Religion is mass delusion as well yet millions of people think God is real.

What we think and feel is regulated by chemicals in the brain. These people cannot help the way they feel. These surgeries harm no one and give a lot of these people peace of mind. All it takes to understand this is a moment of empathy. Put yourself in these peoples shoes, don't judge them based on what you feel, because you are not them.

I have no use for religion personally, and think a lot of things people believe are laughable, but this is in no way comparable. Most normal people who are religious aren't delusional. They're either raised to believe in those things, or choose to believe in those things for comfort.

I only have a problem with the religious fanatics who look down at others, try to "save" those who don't believe in a religion(or their religion) and turn to violence as a result of religion.

But religion doesn't prevent many from living normal, productive lives. And many who do believe in some form of a god are no different than me or anyone else except for that fact.

I think religion has done more harm than good, and it's puzzling to me that so many people assume something is there when it's impossible to prove the existence of it. There's pretty much nothing else I can think of that people do that with. But at the same time, I'd feel like a hypocrite trying to convince people to be atheists when I don't like religious people telling me to believe in a god.

People going to church on Sundays or praying is a lot different than disfiguring yourself.

And as far as not harming anyone. You think a lot of people who get sex changes tell people they're not a real woman? Most end up looking ****ed up enough that they won't be fooling anyone, but there have been examples where men have not been able to tell someone is not a woman. These people will often not tell a man they want to have sex with about the surgery. That does no harm?

If this type of shit is legal then we sure as hell shouldn't have any laws preventing adults from taking what drugs they want. It's a joke how many laws there are on what you can do to your body yet something like this is legal.

And these nuts are even more delusional if they think they're actually going to live a normal life. I can't imagine that many of them are actually happy with what they turn into. Which isn't the opposite sex.

[DCL]

:applause: ShaqAttack3234 speaking the mind of a NORMAL THINKING PERSON. the bullshit in this thread is beyond ridiculous.

[miller-time]

And these nuts are even more delusional if they think they're actually going to live a normal life. I can't imagine that many of them are actually happy with what they turn into. Which isn't the opposite sex.

they are! that is the entire point. nothing can be done psychologically, hormonally or pharmaceutically to alleviate or change the way the person is. they will always be unhappy or dissatisfied in that body. that is why the surgery is acceptable (provided the person passes the necessary evaluations). you are focusing on the physical aspect and not on the emotional one. if it is the only thing that makes them happy, and they are even capable of finding people who accept them on a physical level then why don't you consider it to be the appropriate course of action?

a life time of being emotionally healthy > a life time of being physically "normal"

[dunksby]

I can't believe some of the shit in this thread. Comparing this to people who discriminate against blacks? Really? That's one of the more laughable things I've heard. People are actually born with the color of skin they have, and skin color is such an insignificant thing. It's definitely not like people becoming some strange, disgusting cross between a man and a woman. And you are not born grotesque like that. You may be born with some confusion about your sex, but I really don't care.

And it's a lot different than homosexuality too, and I don't have a problem with gays.

You people do realize that people who have family members who were bipolar or schizophrenic have a good chance to suffer from either mental illness themselves. Those people are born like that, it doesn't mean you don't try to help them instead of acting like it isn't a problem

These transsexuals or whatever the **** they arehave something different about their brain, but it sure as hell isn't a good difference, yet they're not mentally ill?

I'd love to be taller, but I'm not going to get limb-lengthening surgery. That to me is a lot more reasonable because you're still a normal human after. But I still think that surgery is pretty ridiculous.

You can be generally tolerant towards people with other skin colors, religions, sexual orientation ect. without having to bhe tolerant of EVERYTHING. I can't believe society has gotten to this point where this is considered ok.

But hey, all it takes is a little empathy,then we can all hold hands, sing and hug. Give me a ****ing break. :oldlol: What a bunch of *******.



There are differences as far as what may cause it, but at the end of the day, they're both sick, delusional people with body image problems.

Any man who thinks they shouldn't have a dick is not right in the head. Period.



I'm devastated. :cry:



I have no use for religion personally, and think a lot of things people believe are laughable, but this is in no way comparable. Most normal people who are religious aren't delusional. They're either raised to believe in those things, or choose to believe in those things for comfort.

I only have a problem with the religious fanatics who look down at others, try to "save" those who don't believe in a religion(or their religion) and turn to violence as a result of religion.

But religion doesn't prevent many from living normal, productive lives. And many who do believe in some form of a god are no different than me or anyone else except for that fact.

I think religion has done more harm than good, and it's puzzling to me that so many people assume something is there when it's impossible to prove the existence of it. There's pretty much nothing else I can think of that people do that with. But at the same time, I'd feel like a hypocrite trying to convince people to be atheists when I don't like religious people telling me to believe in a god.

People going to church on Sundays or praying is a lot different than disfiguring yourself.

And as far as not harming anyone. You think a lot of people who get sex changes tell people they're not a real woman? Most end up looking ****ed up enough that they won't be fooling anyone, but there have been examples where men have not been able to tell someone is not a woman. These people will often not tell a man they want to have sex with about the surgery. That does no harm?

If this type of shit is legal then we sure as hell shouldn't have any laws preventing adults from taking what drugs they want. It's a joke how many laws there are on what you can do to your body yet something like this is legal.

And these nuts are even more delusional if they think they're actually going to live a normal life. I can't imagine that many of them are actually happy with what they turn into. Which isn't the opposite sex.
You are a knowledgeable basketball fan but the above is just ranting of an ignorant man with a lot of prejudice. I'm not gonna address all your baseless points and false assumptions but just as a starting maybe you should begin with educating yourself on the whole issue here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality
It's a Wikipedia article so it's simple and does not need to be simplified, you can then proceed to educate yourself on other aspects that are more psychological than physiological.

[miller-time]

:applause: ShaqAttack3234 speaking the mind of a NORMAL THINKING PERSON. the bullshit in this thread is beyond ridiculous.

at one point in time the normal thinking person thought slavery was acceptable and women should be denied the right to vote. why praise the opinion of the normal thinking person? all they've done so far in this thread is show off their bigoted opinions about concepts they know nothing about. reveling in normality is not a good thing.

[Myth]

You people do realize that people who have family members who were bipolar or schizophrenic have a good chance to suffer from either mental illness themselves. Those people are born like that, it doesn't mean you don't try to help them instead of acting like it isn't a problem

We do help these people, by letting them have surgery so they can get better. The surgery isn't the problem, it is the solution for many.

[Myth]

a life time of being emotionally healthy > a life time of being physically "normal"

:cheers:

[Scoooter]

:applause: ShaqAttack3234 speaking the mind of a NORMAL THINKING PERSON. the bullshit in this thread is beyond ridiculous.
I'm a normal thinking person, and I fully support gender reassignment. In fact, I eagerly await the day it comes in pill form, and is entirely reversible.









I also want a black guy pill. And a ninja pill.

[DCL]

If you want to chop your d!ck off and mutilate yourself into a freak, thats none of my business. I dont care what you want to do with your body. Its your life. Im not denying your rights to vote or live or eat. Im not even protesting that you cant chop your d!ck off to become a freak cuz its your decision. I just dont care about you. I dont even want to fking look at you.

But what i have a problem is you freaks forcing everyone and starting this bullshit movement for everyone else to EMBRACE on your freak livelihood. You have your right to chop your pen!ses and mutilate yourselves, and I have my full right to not embrace on that stupidity. I dont care to embrace it nor do i want to. But when you try to jam down your beliefs onto other people and want every to embrace and celebrate your cause, the problem is you. You are the ones attempting to deny other people's rights, so your movement is pretty bullshit.

[Myth]

If you want to chop your d!ck off and mutilate yourself into a freak, thats none of my business. I dont care what you want to do with your body. Its your life. Im not denying your rights to vote or live or eat. Im not even protesting that you cant chop your d!ck off to become a freak cuz its your decision. I just dont care about you. I dont even want to fking look at you.

But what i have a problem is you freaks forcing everyone and starting this bullshit movement for everyone else to EMBRACE on your freak livelihood. You have your right to chop your pen!ses and mutilate yourselves, and I have my full right to not embrace on that stupidity. I dont care to embrace it nor do i want to. But when you try to jam down your beliefs onto other people and want every to embrace and celebrate your cause, the problem is you. You are the ones attempting to deny other people's rights, so your movement is pretty bullshit.

Well, at least you want them to have their right to be happy. That is something at least.

[miller-time]

Well, at least you want them to have their right to be happy. That is something at least.

i just hope they never have to sit in front of him for an interview..

[ShaqAttack3234]

they are! that is the entire point. nothing can be done psychologically, hormonally or pharmaceutically to alleviate or change the way the person is. they will always be unhappy or dissatisfied in that body. that is why the surgery is acceptable (provided the person passes the necessary evaluations). you are focusing on the physical aspect and not on the emotional one. if it is the only thing that makes them happy, and they are even capable of finding people who accept them on a physical level then why don't you consider it to be the appropriate course of action?

a life time of being emotionally healthy > a life time of being physically "normal"

How do you know they're happy? They may be at first, but how about after they get their ass kicked a few times? Or spending their life alone, with the exception of the few who can trick people, which will lead to the inevitable beating when it's discovered.

I doubt that many can be happy walking around as some strange cross between both sexes. They will be in for a rude awakening if they think they'll be accepted and generally thought of as the sex they want to be.

And aside from whether they are happy or not. The man who finally got his leg amputated was happy afterwards, why is that not ok, and this is?


You are a knowledgeable basketball fan but the above is just ranting of an ignorant man with a lot of prejudice. I'm not gonna address all your baseless points and false assumptions but just as a starting maybe you should begin with educating yourself on the whole issue here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality
It's a Wikipedia article so it's simple and does not need to be simplified, you can then proceed to educate yourself on other aspects that are more psychological than physiological.

:oldlol: at linking a wikipedia article. Let me guess, you read that yourself and now think you're so knowledgeable as a result. You're not going to convince me this is right. There's absolutely no chance of it. It has nothing to do with me being "ignorant" or a "bigot" as some of the soft shoes in this thread claim. It's my opinion, and I feel strongly about it.


at one point in time the normal thinking person thought slavery was acceptable and women should be denied the right to vote. why praise the opinion of the normal thinking person? all they've done so far in this thread is show off their bigoted opinions about concepts they know nothing about. reveling in normality is not a good thing.

These analogies are nothing short of laughable. Society really is ****ed up that there's now this many people accepting this. Black people didn't change their skin color and women didn't make themselves women. Besides, we need women, and a black man is just like a white man. There's no comparison between taking men and making slaves of them, or denying American citizens the rights the rest of us have.


We do help these people, by letting them have surgery so they can get better. The surgery isn't the problem, it is the solution for many.

That's not getting better, that's getting worse. They'd be better off just playing "dress up".

It'd be a lot better to try to find medications or therapy for this. I believe it still is required by law to undergo therapy for a year or 2 and "live as"(really pretend to be) the opposite sex for a year or 2.

But there's a big difference. It's like committing a robbery and saying I don't care if I get caught, jail doesn't scare me. It's easier before those doors shut and you're facing years of that.



But what i have a problem is you freaks forcing everyone and starting this bullshit movement for everyone else to EMBRACE on your freak livelihood. You have your right to chop your pen!ses and mutilate yourselves, and I have my full right to not embrace on that stupidity. I dont care to embrace it nor do i want to. But when you try to jam down your beliefs onto other people and want every to embrace and celebrate your cause, the problem is you. You are the ones attempting to deny other people's rights, so your movement is pretty bullshit.

I'd have less of a problem with these surgeries being legal if there weren't so many other restrictions on what an adult has the right to do themselves. It pisses me off to no end that there are legal consequences to pay for using the drug of your choice. So we don't have the rights to do what we want with our bodies in general.

I still wouldn't think it was good to have people attempting to change their gender, key word is attempting, but I'd find it less hypocritical.

[miller-time]

These analogies are nothing short of laughable. Society really is ****ed up that there's now this many people accepting this. Black people didn't change their skin color and women didn't make themselves women. Besides, we need women, and a black man is just like a white man. There's no comparison between taking men and making slaves of them, or denying American citizens the rights the rest of us have.

the analogy isn't the situations themselves but the paradigm shift between what "normal" people once accepted and what they accept now. as time goes on and new treatments become available and people are better educated on these issues you will see an increase in acceptance towards transsexuals.

the point is that just because you might be talking for the normal person doesn't mean you are on the side of right.

[DCL]

Tolerance is one thing. Full embracement is another.

If you demand people to embrace on things that they do not want to embrace, you are acting like people who demand you to convert into their religion. If you believe cutting your d!ck off and getting a vag!na is a great thing, that's your belief. But if you insist and demand everyone to have that same belief with you, you are the wrong ones for blocking other people's rights. That sh!t's gotta stop.

[miller-time]

Tolerance is one thing. Full embracement is another.

If you demand people to embrace on things that they do not want to embrace, you are acting like people who demand you to convert into their religion. If you believe cutting your d!ck off and getting a vag!na is a great thing, that's your belief. But if you insist and demand everyone to have that same belief with you, you are the wrong ones for blocking other people's rights. That sh!t's gotta stop.

this isn't someones religious or political belief though. we are talking about real people, with a real problem, that has a real and demonstrable medical solution to improve those individuals mental well being. none of these points have been negated by anyone in here. the lack of acceptance really comes down to willful ignorance. i've already stated that i am also not comfortable with the procedure, but i'm not going to let that stop me from treating those people equally or with respect. it is the least we can do for someone whose life must be a living hell at times.

[DCL]

Like i said, your right to chop your d!ck off and get a vag!na is yours to exercise, and my right to think it's stupid procedure is mine to exercise.

Dont expect everyone to join this parade. In fact, you should RESPECT other people for not caring at all in joining this parade otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

[dunksby]

:oldlol: at linking a wikipedia article. Let me guess, you read that yourself and now think you're so knowledgeable as a result. You're not going to convince me this is right. There's absolutely no chance of it. It has nothing to do with me being "ignorant" or a "bigot" as some of the soft shoes in this thread claim. It's my opinion, and I feel strongly about it.




As I implied in my earlier post I linked a Wikipedia article so it would not be heavy on your mind. It's only natural though that you still refuse to face the reality of your ignorance. What is a person who is born an XXY gonna do about it?
Anyway I will paste this part to bring things into perspective:

Intersex, in humans and other animals, is the presence of intermediate or atypical combinations of physical features that usually distinguish female from male. This is usually understood to be congenital, involving chromosomal, morphologic, genital and/or gonadal anomalies, such as diversion from typical XX-female or XY-male presentations, e.g., sex reversal (XY-female, XX-male), genital ambiguity, or sex developmental differences. An intersex individual may have biological characteristics of both the male and the female sexes.[citation needed] Intersexuality as a term was adopted by medicine during the 20th century, and applied to human beings whose biological sex cannot be classified as clearly male or female.[1][2][3] Intersex was initially adopted by intersex activists who criticize traditional medical approaches to sex assignment and seek to be heard in the construction of new approaches.[4]
Finally the whole concept of Gender is a social construct made up through years of patriarchy so your whole point is moot.

[miller-time]

Like i said, your right to chop your d!ck off and get a vag!na is yours to exercise, and my right to think it's stupid procedure is mine to exercise.

Dont expect everyone to join this parade. In fact, you should RESPECT other people for not caring at all in joining this parade otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

i respect your right to hold that belief, but i don't respect the belief itself. beliefs are something that should be analyzed and challenged constantly - in the appropriate setting of course.

[ShaqAttack3234]

the analogy isn't the situations themselves but the paradigm shift between what "normal" people once accepted and what they accept now. as time goes on and new treatments become available and people are better educated on these issues you will see an increase in acceptance towards transsexuals.

the point is that just because you might be talking for the normal person doesn't mean you are on the side of right.

Except we're not in the 1800's or the 1920's, even the 1960's.

My point is that there's a reason it was finally figured out that slavery was terrible, and that women should vote.

I get that you're saying the conventional line of thinking isn't always right, and in some cases, I agree, but there's just such a huge difference in these issues. I don't think it should be that hard to understand why people have a problem with this surgery.

And really, how do you think these people go about living their lives after the surgery? You can't possibly believe it's a normal life, can you? You don't think they get harassed regularly? How many can have sexual relationships? Especially without deceiving people, and I believe they have a moral obligation to be honest. If they're not willing to, and many aren't, that's just another reason why this surgery is unacceptable.

I doubt transsexuals will be generally accepted in my lifetime.


As I implied in my earlier post I linked a Wikipedia article so it would not be heavy on your mind because it seems like it has not been used other than fortification of false assumptions and prejudice. It's only natural though that you still refuse to face the reality of your ignorance. What is a person who is born an XXY gonna do about it?
Anyway I will paste this part to bring things into perspective:

Finally the whole concept of Gender is a social construct made up through years of patriarchy so your whole point is moot.

I caught the shots you took at me, but I'm not really interested in going about things that way. You can insult my intelligence and pretend you have any idea about how intelligent I am, it really doesn't bother me. I'm not particularly impressed by you either, and don't think you're capable of teaching me anything.

I can read anything about the subject and still have the opinions I have.

I will always think their minds are the problems, not their bodies. That's their problem.

[dunksby]

Except we're not in the 1800's or the 1920's, even the 1960's.

My point is that there's a reason it was finally figured out that slavery was terrible, and that women should vote.

I get that you're saying the conventional line of thinking isn't always right, and in some cases, I agree, but there's just such a huge difference in these issues. I don't think it should be that hard to understand why people have a problem with this surgery.

And really, how do you think these people go about living their lives after the surgery? You can't possibly believe it's a normal life, can you? You don't think they get harassed regularly? How many can have sexual relationships? Especially without deceiving people, and I believe they have a moral obligation to be honest. If they're not willing to, and many aren't, that's just another reason why this surgery is unacceptable.

I doubt transsexuals will be generally accepted in my lifetime.



I caught the shots you took at me, but I'm not really interested in going about things that way. You can insult my intelligence and pretend you have any idea about how intelligent I am, it really doesn't bother me. I'm not particularly impressed by you either, and don't think you're capable of teaching me anything.

I can read anything about the subject and still have the opinions I have.

I will always think their minds are the problems, not their bodies. That's their problem.
It's not your intelligence I'm insulting, it's your narrow vision and close mindedness. I thought you would be smart to get it and start educating yourself on the issue but it seems like I overestimated your intelligence and underestimated your resolve to remain uninformed on the matter.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It's not your intelligence I'm insulting, it's your narrow vision and close mindedness. I thought you would be smart to get it and start educating yourself on the issue but it seems like I overestimated your intelligence and underestimated your resolve to remain uninformed on the matter.

You're assuming I'm uneducated and uninformed on this issue because I don't agree with you. Now who is close-minded? It really is laughable that the ones who think they're so open-minded criticize anyone who doesn't agree with them, and pretend they're the only ones who are informed which has happened throughout this thread.

[Lebron23]

You're assuming I'm uneducated and uninformed on this issue because I don't agree with you. Now who is close-minded? It really is laughable that the ones who think they're so open-minded criticize anyone who doesn't agree with them, and pretend they're the only ones who are informed which has happened throughout this thread.


Ths

Freedom of speech baby!!!

[dunksby]

You're assuming I'm uneducated and uninformed on this issue because I don't agree with you. Now who is close-minded? It really is laughable that the ones who think they're so open-minded criticize anyone who doesn't agree with them, and pretend they're the only ones who are informed which has happened throughout this thread.
Well if somebody comes to me and starts talking about how Gays are wrong in the head and should all go under shock therapy I would safely assume that person is uneducated and uninformed on the issue. Your initial post that I quoted is full of statements close to what homophobes spew everyday I don't see anything that points out to your knowledge on the issue.

[miller-time]

How do you know they're happy? They may be at first, but how about after they get their ass kicked a few times? Or spending their life alone, with the exception of the few who can trick people, which will lead to the inevitable beating when it's discovered.

I doubt that many can be happy walking around as some strange cross between both sexes. They will be in for a rude awakening if they think they'll be accepted and generally thought of as the sex they want to be.

And aside from whether they are happy or not. The man who finally got his leg amputated was happy afterwards, why is that not ok, and this is?

studies show they are happy. the psychological or medical community wouldn't approve of the treatment if the majority of recipients ended up being depressed or suicidal - the point is to alleviate those kinds of emotions, they aren't doing it to freak you out. the individuals themselves also don't start dressing and acting as the opposite gender only after they have the surgery. they are probably already on hormonal treatments too so they've already experienced the consequences of living as a transsexual. and as i also said there are people out there who do embrace them physically. sure you and i are not up for it, but those people do exist.

i don't know anything about the man whose leg was amputated. i don't know what the doctors said, i don't know what the procedure was, i never said it was ok or not.

[dunksby]

studies show they are happy. the psychological or medical community wouldn't approve of the treatment if the majority of recipients ended up being depressed or suicidal - the point is to alleviate those kinds of emotions, they aren't doing it to freak you out. the individuals themselves also don't start dressing and acting as the opposite gender before they have the surgery. they are probably already on hormonal treatments too so they've already experienced the consequences of living as a transsexual. and as i also said there are people out there who do embrace them physically. sure you and i are not up for it, but those people do exist.

i don't know anything about the man whose leg was amputated. i don't know what the doctors said, i don't know what the procedure was, i never said it was ok or not.
I cannot believe people are not over this simple issue still, while in Japan this happens
[QUOTE]Mao Sugiyama Cooks, Serves Own Genitals At Banquet In Tokyo
His tweet:
"[Please retweet] I am offering my male genitals (full *****, testes, scrotum) as a meal for 100,000 yen

[Scoooter]

I get that you're saying the conventional line of thinking isn't always right, and in some cases, I agree, but there's just such a huge difference in these issues. I don't think it should be that hard to understand why people have a problem with this surgery.
I don't really have a grasp on this point. I'd liken it to drug use or extreme piercings or extensive cosmetic surgery (which is basically what this is). What someone else does to his or her own body is mostly a curiosity. At worst I'm weirded out a bit, but I don't see how this is radically or fundamentally less acceptable than a full body tattoo or something.


I doubt transsexuals will be generally accepted in my lifetime.
Do you then make the concession that you think they will eventually be generally accepted?

[dunksby]

I don't really have a grasp on this point. I'd liken it to drug use or extreme piercings or extensive cosmetic surgery (which is basically what this is). What someone else does to his or her own body is mostly a curiosity. At worst I'm weirded out a bit, but I don't see how this is radically or fundamentally less acceptable than a full body tattoo or something.


Do you then make the concession that you think they will eventually be generally accepted?
That's just an ignorant claim, transsexuals are accepted by people in Asia, I lived for three years in East Asia and I saw a lot of transsexuals working everyday jobs with no problem. Thailand and Iran have the most number of sex change surgeries in the world. Iran even pays for their surgery :lol

[Scoooter]

I'm surprised about the Iran news. Fascinating in light of their religious conservatism.