Let's be real, LeBron has never been at the level Jordan was.

[TheMan]

Dedicated to the LeBronytes here who have now replaced the Kobe kids as the next pups nipping at the top dog's heel. To us basketball fans who have been watching before 2000, we already now this but I want to see the LBJ stans make their case and don't use hypotheticals like "Bron will win these many titles" BS. Stop it, he has one in 9 years for ****s sake. The stats I'm gonna post are Jordan's season's from age 23 to 26, at his athletic prime on a team lacking other superstars so his workload is obviously heavier. Check LBJ's stats on a similar circumstance when he was carrying the heavy load on the Cavs or even include his Heat season stats, LBJ can't hang with MJ. Also keep in mind LBJ plays in a pvssyball era with no big men clogging the lane, rules changed to favor the perimeter game and handchecking is now illegal. You would think all that would push Bron's production past MJ...
:bowdown:
1986-87 age 23, 37.1 ppg, .482 FG%, 4.6 asts, 5.2 rebs, 2.9 spg
1987-88 age 24, 35 ppg, .535 FG%, 5.9 asts, 5.5 rebs, 3.2 spg
1988-89 age 25, 32.5 ppg, .538 FG%, 8 asts, 8 rebs, 2.9 spg
1989-90 age 26, 33.6 ppg, .526 FG%, 6.3 asts, 6.9 rebs, 2.8 spg

If Bron was putting those numbers up, the LBJ stans would be going out of their minds.:pimp:

[TMacMagic]

Haha, i'm lovin' all these " Let's be real " threads.

But you're are right, there is no question MJ is better than LB, the stats support that statement. Interested to see what LBJ guys gotta say.

[PickernRoller]

Just one word, "insecure".

[NumberSix]

Dedicated to the LeBronytes here who have now replaced the Kobe kids as the next pups nipping at the top dog's heel. To us basketball fans who have been watching before 2000, we already now this but I want to see the LBJ stans make their case and don't use hypotheticals like "Bron will win these many titles" BS. Stop it, he has one in 9 years for ****s sake. The stats I'm gonna post are Jordan's season's from age 23 to 26, at his athletic prime on a team lacking other superstars so his workload is obviously heavier. Check LBJ's stats on a similar circumstance when he was carrying the heavy load on the Cavs or even include his Heat season stats, LBJ can't hang with MJ. Also keep in mind LBJ plays in a pvssyball era with no big men clogging the lane, rules changed to favor the perimeter game and handchecking is now illegal. You would think all that would push Bron's production past MJ...
:bowdown:
1986-87 age 23, 37.1 ppg, .482 FG%, 4.6 asts, 5.2 rebs, 2.9 spg
1987-88 age 24, 35 ppg, .535 FG%, 5.9 asts, 5.5 rebs, 3.2 spg
1988-89 age 25, 32.5 ppg, .538 FG%, 8 asts, 8 rebs, 2.9 spg
1989-90 age 26, 33.6 ppg, .526 FG%, 6.3 asts, 6.9 rebs, 2.8 spg

If Bron was putting those numbers up, the LBJ stans would be going out of their minds.:pimp:
Stopped reading.

[TheMan]

Just one word, "insecure".
Not really. MJ's stats clearly show he is superior to LBJ, I just want to knock Silktheshocker's, Pauk, LeBron23's etc idol down a few pegs. Their LBJ's overrating has gotten a bit annoying lately.:oldlol:

[TheMan]

Stopped reading.
This is the reason LBJ fan boys are clueless^^:oldlol:

[EnoughSaid]

:roll: No one disagrees. I'm pretty sure there has never been a player at a level like MJ. Why make this thread?

[PickernRoller]

Not really. MJ's stats clearly show he is superior to LBJ, I just want to knock Silktheshocker's, Pauk, LeBron23's etc idol down a few pegs. Their LBJ's overrating has gotten a bit annoying lately.:oldlol:

Mods job - to which I admit they fail horribly each freaking day. You could dump on their threads and expose them as the retards they are anyways. Temper tantrums are their thing when they fail to manage the heat. The fact that they create such threads already says they are retards in the first place.

[Redoks]

No perimeter player has ever been at MJ's level:confusedshrug:

[SilkkTheShocker]

I sure do have a lot of fans on ISH :lol

[swag2011]

Notice how quickly all the Lebron stans have shut up and have NOTHING to say now. :cheers: to the OP.

[TheMan]

Mods job - to which I admit they fail horribly each freaking day. You could dump on their threads and expose them as the retards they are anyways. Temper tantrums are their thing when they fail to manage the heat. The fact that they create such threads already says they are retards in the first place.
So you are saying you've never seen a Bron fan say LB>MJ?

Well here is their chance to prove it, you don't like it, wtf did you click on this thread? Are you the internet police?:facepalm

[Redoks]

Notice how quickly all the Lebron stans have shut up and have NOTHING to say now. :cheers: to the OP.

Delusional...
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/are%20you%20shtting%20me/grand/lhama-are-you-shtting-me-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-152.gif

[LeBird]

Lebron, if he wins a few more titles, will have done enough by the end of his career to be in the GOAT conversation and should be considered as good as anybody.

Ability wise - meaning, not just achievements - he is definitely on Jordan's level if not above it even right now. He is a freak of nature.

[TheMan]

I sure do have a lot of fans on ISH :lol
:cheers:

It's all in good fun...and I notice ya didn't give it a go to refute my opening post:lol
Pauk will give it a shot though:oldlol:

[TheMan]

Notice how quickly all the Lebron stans have shut up and have NOTHING to say now. :cheers: to the OP.
They running to the hills:cheers:

[Dictator]

Lebron, if he wins a few more titles, will have done enough by the end of his career to be in the GOAT conversation and should be considered as good as anybody.

Ability wise - meaning, not just achievements - he is definitely on Jordan's level if not above it even right now. He is a freak of nature.


And so it begins........

[NumberSix]

Notice how quickly all the Lebron stans have shut up and have NOTHING to say now. :cheers: to the OP.
Was there anyone declaring LeBron to be better than MJ in the first place?

Nobody "shut up". There was never anybody fighting this battle to begin with.

[TMacMagic]

Lebron, if he wins a few more titles, will have done enough by the end of his career to be in the GOAT conversation and should be considered as good as anybody.

Ability wise - meaning, not just achievements - he is definitely on Jordan's level if not above it even right now. He is a freak of nature.

I strongly disagree.

[TheMan]

Lebron, if he wins a few more titles, will have done enough by the end of his career to be in the GOAT conversation and should be considered as good as anybody.

Ability wise - meaning, not just achievements - he is definitely on Jordan's level if not above it even right now. He is a freak of nature.
Hypotheticals:no:

LBJ's best season doesn't top any of those 4 MJ's seasons I listed.

I could say, if Jordan didn't take 2 years off his prime, if the Pistons didn't block MJ's Bulls, if they didn't break up the Bulls after the second threepeat etc. MJ could've easily had 2 or 3 more titles.

[plowking]

Meh, I don't think there is a considerable gap, if one at all between them. Same goes for Kobe and Jordan.

[andgar923]

Dedicated to the LeBronytes here who have now replaced the Kobe kids as the next pups nipping at the top dog's heel. To us basketball fans who have been watching before 2000, we already now this but I want to see the LBJ stans make their case and don't use hypotheticals like "Bron will win these many titles" BS. Stop it, he has one in 9 years for ****s sake. The stats I'm gonna post are Jordan's season's from age 23 to 26, at his athletic prime on a team lacking other superstars so his workload is obviously heavier. Check LBJ's stats on a similar circumstance when he was carrying the heavy load on the Cavs or even include his Heat season stats, LBJ can't hang with MJ. Also keep in mind LBJ plays in a pvssyball era with no big men clogging the lane, rules changed to favor the perimeter game and handchecking is now illegal. You would think all that would push Bron's production past MJ...
:bowdown:
1986-87 age 23, 37.1 ppg, .482 FG%, 4.6 asts, 5.2 rebs, 2.9 spg
1987-88 age 24, 35 ppg, .535 FG%, 5.9 asts, 5.5 rebs, 3.2 spg
1988-89 age 25, 32.5 ppg, .538 FG%, 8 asts, 8 rebs, 2.9 spg
1989-90 age 26, 33.6 ppg, .526 FG%, 6.3 asts, 6.9 rebs, 2.8 spg

If Bron was putting those numbers up, the LBJ stans would be going out of their minds.:pimp:

To me the numbers don't really matter as they don't always tell the entire story.

There's actually times in which I agree with Kobe fans on their Bron critique in regards to his offensive game (aka fg%). Kobe is simply a more versatile/polished scorer. Having said that, one can't take away from Bron's decision making and ability to still score at an efficient rate. He creates his opportunities no matter how they may be, something Kobe doesn't do as consistently with the same type of efficiency. Truth be told, a big part is attributed to Bron's size and athleticism.... but should we take away points for this? I think not.

What does this have to do with MJ?

MJ is simply years ahead of Bron in the scoring department. There's still many aspects that MJ did going back to his rookie year that Bron has yet to do in any efficient manner, specially the mid game.

So while they may be similar in some aspects, MJ's mental approach, toughness, competitiveness and offensive skill just takes him to another level that we have yet to see Bron come close too.

Just go back and look at something as simple as MJ working without the ball, MJ coming off screens, MJ working the middle of the floor for easy shots, shit like that is something that p*sses me off when I see Bron play, cause he's incapable of doing at this stage of his career even though Mj was doing all of this as a rookie.

[plowking]

Hypotheticals:no:

LBJ's best season doesn't top any of those 4 MJ's seasons I listed.

I could say, if Jordan didn't take 2 years off his prime, if the Pistons didn't block MJ's Bulls, if they didn't break up the Bulls after the second threepeat etc. MJ could've easily had 2 or 3 more titles.

Yes it does. Give me 08-09 Lebron over a few of those seasons. Same with this year being equal to those seasons. Dude was a beast.

[Mr. Incredible]

Let's be real, no basketball player ever has.

[Optimus Prime]

Mods job - to which I admit they fail horribly each freaking day. You could dump on their threads and expose them as the retards they are anyways. Temper tantrums are their thing when they fail to manage the heat. The fact that they create such threads already says they are retards in the first place.

You are new here. Trolling and funny GIFs is how this place rolls with the occasional insightful thread. It really hasn't changed in years and I am ok with that. It's just an Internet forum about basketball ... lighten up and have some fun!

:kobe:

[LeBird]

I strongly disagree.

Well, I should explain that assessment. Lebron is a much better all-round player and athlete. Comparing a few stats does a disservice to him. What he did taking Cleveland to the finals... Jordan could never (and never did with a comparatively weak Bulls) do.



Hypotheticals:no:

LBJ's best season doesn't top any of those 4 MJ's seasons I listed.

I could say, if Jordan didn't take 2 years off his prime, if the Pistons didn't block MJ's Bulls, if they didn't break up the Bulls after the second threepeat etc. MJ could've easily had 2 or 3 more titles.


Comparing straight stats like that is disingenuous. Stats aren't the be-all and end-all anyway. Otherwise Wilt > everyone by a mile. Unless you think Wilt poops on Jordan, then you can't claim to be consistent.

Anyway, of course my first statement is hypotheticals. I think being the GOAT means you have to amass a certain amount and variety of accolades. But 'ability' is a different matter. This isn't Disney, in real life people go through different things and for one reason or another may not get what their talents merit. Ability-wise though, even Pippen called it: Lebron is probably a better all-round player than Jordan was.


Let's be real, no basketball player ever has.

A lot have. You'd have to watch more than Space Jam to know, though.

[Dictator]

Well, I should explain that assessment. Lebron is a much better all-round player and athlete. Comparing a few stats does a disservice to him. What he did taking to Cleveland to the finals Jordan could never (and never did) do.





Comparing straight stats like that is disingenuous. Stats aren't the be-all and end-all anyway. Otherwise Wilt > everyone by a mile. Unless you think Wilt poops on Jordan, then you can't claim to be consistent.

Anyway, of course my first statement is hypotheticals. I think being the GOAT means you have to amass a certain amount and variety of accolades. But 'ability' is a different matter. This isn't Disney, in real life people go through different things and for one reason or another may not get what their talents merit. Ability-wise though, even Pippen called it: Lebron is probably a better all-round player than Jordan was.


:facepalm :facepalm Not even gonna respond.

[TheMan]

You are new here. Trolling and funny GIFs is how this place rolls with the occasional insightful thread. It really hasn't changed in years and I am ok with that. It's just an Internet forum about basketball ... lighten up and have some fun!

:kobe:
This

it's basketball, for ****s sake

[andgar923]

Well, I should explain that assessment. Lebron is a much better all-round player and athlete. Comparing a few stats does a disservice to him. What he did taking to Cleveland to the finals Jordan could never (and never did) do.





Comparing straight stats like that is disingenuous. Stats aren't the be-all and end-all anyway. Otherwise Wilt > everyone by a mile. Unless you think Wilt poops on Jordan, then you can't claim to be consistent.

Anyway, of course my first statement is hypotheticals. I think being the GOAT means you have to amass a certain amount and variety of accolades. But 'ability' is a different matter. This isn't Disney, in real life people go through different things and for one reason or another may not get what their talents merit. Ability-wise though, even Pippen called it: Lebron is probably a better all-round player than Jordan was.

Even that's arguable, which is why he said 'probably'. Then we must also consider all the things Pip had to retract later on after his jealousy washed away.

[gengiskhan]

32.5 PPG/

8 APG/

8 RPG/

3 SPG

for 81 out of 82 possible games.

Thats OSCAR ROBERTSONisque

LBJ will never ever come close to that. :coleman:

NOTE: rumor has it that Kobit*h has already topped MJ stats in his wet dreams. :roll: :lol :biggums:

[BabyBull]

Well, I should explain that assessment. Lebron is a much better all-round player and athlete.



:yaohappy:

[LeBird]

Even that's arguable, which is why he said 'probably'. Then we must also consider all the things Pip had to retract later on after his jealousy washed away.

Right, because no one could claim anything other than Jordan was God without it being about jealousy.

Now you know why many people consider Jordan overrated. He was a GOAT candidate, but he wasn't God. And yes, players have been as good if not better than him. Lebron could be that even now. Pretending - at least with respect to ability - that Lebron isn't close is a laugh.

[TheMan]

:facepalm :facepalm Not even gonna respond.
No need to...he's in the decided minority who think LBJ>Jordan, leave it at that.

[StateOfMind12]

Lebron is in Jordan's level when it comes to peak play but Lebron will never or most likely will never have the career or the type of accomplishments that Jordan had though.

Anyone who thinks that Lebron at his peak isn't comparable to Jordan's at his is just kidding themselves.

Was Jordan's peak better? I would say so but I don't know why people are acting as if that comparison is a joke.

[andgar923]

Right, because no one could claim anything other than Jordan was God without it being about jealousy.

Now you know why many people consider Jordan overrated. He was a GOAT candidate, but he wasn't God. And yes, players have been as good if not better than him. Lebron could be that even now. Pretending - at least with respect to ability - that Lebron isn't close is a laugh.

Why so defensive?

Pip is known to be jealous of MJ, always has been.

I never said that MJ was better, I said "arguably" you insecure cry baby.

[TheMan]

Was there anyone declaring LeBron to be better than MJ in the first place?

Nobody "shut up". There was never anybody fighting this battle to begin with.
LeBird is taking a gamely shot at it, bless his little heart:oldlol:

[Nash]

Notice how quickly all the Lebron stans have shut up and have NOTHING to say now. :cheers: to the OP.
OR, they just don't care for trolling.

[NumberSix]

Let's just get down to it........ Ready?

Here.......my dick>LeBron's dick>MJ's dick>Kobe's dick>your dick

[andgar923]

Lebron is in Jordan's level when it comes to peak play but Lebron will never or most likely will never have the career or the type of accomplishments that Jordan had though.

Anyone who thinks that Lebron at his peak isn't comparable to Jordan's at his is just kidding themselves.

Was Jordan's peak better? I would say so but I don't know why people are acting as if that comparison is a joke.

No he doesn't.

There are still tons of offensive skills that Bron lacks. Things that MJ did from day 1 that Bron still can't do on any consistent basis.

I do agree that it is arguable in other aspects, but there's still a huge gap in the offensive end that prevents this from being a serious conversation.

[LeBird]

Why so defensive?

Pip is known to be jealous of MJ, always has been.

I never said that MJ was better, I said "arguably" you insecure cry baby.

Sure he was. :rolleyes:

I am not defensive, I am saying people need to put down the rose-tinted glasses and understand that there were great players (as great and possibly greater) before Jordan and there will be players like that after him too.


LeBird is taking a gamely shot at it, bless his little heart:oldlol:

I'm not, really. Ability-wise, Lebron has been on the Jordan level. As you take his career as a whole and compare it to Jordan then no. The two things are different.

Anyway, you didn't respond to me. Is Wilt on another level that Jordan never was? What about Oscar Robertson and his triple-double season?

See how stupid your original post is now?

[andgar923]

Sure he was. :rolleyes:

I am not defensive, I am saying people need to put down the rose-tinted glasses and understand that there were great players (as great and possibly greater) before Jordan and there will be players like that after him too.





When has anybody ever said that there was no great players before or since MJ?

:biggums:

[magnax1]

I don't know why anyone would say they are close. Lebron is great but clearly has never been on Jordan's level. He just doesn't do much better. He's arguably the better passer, but they're very much in the same range either way. Pretty much everything else goes to Jordan peak vs peak, many in very wide margins.

[RRR3]

No shit sherlock

[NumberSix]

I don't know why anyone would say they are close. Lebron is great but clearly has never been on Jordan's level. He just doesn't do much better. He's arguably the better passer, but they're very much in the same range either way. Pretty much everything else goes to Jordan peak vs peak, many in very wide margins.
Arguably? :confusedshrug:

[StateOfMind12]

There are still tons of offensive skills that Bron lacks. Things that MJ did from day 1 that Bron still can't do on any consistent basis.
What does Lebron lack in terms of his offensive skills? He has just about everything these days. He is still athletic enough to blow by defenders with ease and get to the basket. He has a reliable post up game now. His jump shot is still very good. He is good at moving without the ball and cutting to the basket. What is he lacking at?

I hope you aren't arguing that Lebron just scores in ugly style because who cares? If that is your argument you mind as well argue that Kobe's peak was better than Lebron's peak since Kobe was more stylistic.

I'm not arguing who is the more stylish player. I am arguing who is the more impactful and effective player and Lebron is close to Jordan on that spectrum.

[TMacMagic]

No quite sure why this thread is still going. There's no question that LB has never been at MJ's level. NONE. Anyone who says otherwise needs to go watch some tape like Kyrie Irving.


Saying that, I hope to see LeBron improve next season(s) and wish him the best. LeBron needs to step up in the 4th quarter and gets some more titles before you can even put his name and Jordan's in the same sentence.

[swag2011]

OR, they just don't care for trolling.

lol no i doubt that, considering most the trolls on this board are Lebron stans.

[andgar923]

What does Lebron lack in terms of his offensive skills? He has just about everything these days. He is still athletic enough to blow by defenders with ease and get to the basket. He has a reliable post up game now. His jump shot is still very good. He is good at moving without the ball and cutting to the basket. What is he lacking at?

I hope you aren't arguing that Lebron just scores in ugly style because who cares? If that is your argument you mind as well argue that Kobe's peak was better than Lebron's peak since Kobe was more stylistic.

I'm not arguing who is the more stylish player. I am arguing who is the more impactful and effective player and Lebron is close to Jordan on that spectrum.

do you watch basketball?

There are many things Bron still doesn't know how to do.

Go back and read my first post for starters.

[TheMan]

Well, I should explain that assessment. Lebron is a much better all-round player and athlete. Comparing a few stats does a disservice to him. What he did taking Cleveland to the finals... Jordan could never (and never did with a comparatively weak Bulls) do.

Comparing straight stats like that is disingenuous. Stats aren't the be-all and end-all anyway. Otherwise Wilt > everyone by a mile. Unless you think Wilt poops on Jordan, then you can't claim to be consistent.

MJ not being able to get past those 80s Celtics and Pistons not equal to LBJ getting his Cavs to the Finals in a very weak East, didn't face a .500 team until the ECFs while the East was loaded in the 80s (Celtics, Pistons, Cavs) context, brah or you gonna claim LBJ's Cavs would've beaten those 80s teams:facepalm

If you've been here longer than a few weeks, you would know I never have claimed MJ>KAJ or Wilt, never saw them play. I've followed the NBA since the mid80s and I think MJ has been the best player in that time span until today...

[LeBird]

When has anybody ever said that there was no great players before or since MJ?

:biggums:

I'm referring to another thread TBH. There seems to be a misconception on this forum that Jordan was the best, incomparable, without question. That wasn't true for the past and it won't be true for the future. So holding the Lebron comparisons in disdain just shows that people are too attached to their heroes to get a grip on something else - reality.

[NumberSix]

I wouldn't be surprised if Jordan stans starting arguing that MJ is taller than Bron.


Seriously. According to these people, this guy was the best at everything imaginable.

[andgar923]

People be mad

http://imageftw.com/uploads/20120507/mj%20laugh.gif

[magnax1]

Arguably? :confusedshrug:
You think it's not arguable? Prime vs prime (88-93 Jordan and 09-12 Lebron) Jordan averaged exactly one less assist then Lebron. You can say whatever you want, but the difference between the two in the area is negligible.

[riseagainst]

Was there anyone declaring LeBron to be better than MJ in the first place?

Nobody "shut up". There was never anybody fighting this battle to begin with.

that silkketheshocker guy did. I read it somewhere.

[NumberSix]

You think it's not arguable? Prime vs prime (88-93 Jordan and 09-12 Lebron) Jordan averaged exactly one less assist then Lebron. You can say whatever you want, but the difference between the two in the area is negligible.
ISH. Where assist stats = passing.

[NumberSix]

that silkketheshocker guy did. I read it somewhere.
Oh, was that the same thread I banged your sister in? :confusedshrug:

[magnax1]

ISH. Where assist stats = passing.
Yes. Because I said that, or something close to that in nature....

[riseagainst]

Dedicated to the LeBronytes here who have now replaced the Kobe kids as the next pups nipping at the top dog's heel. To us basketball fans who have been watching before 2000, we already now this but I want to see the LBJ stans make their case and don't use hypotheticals like "Bron will win these many titles" BS. Stop it, he has one in 9 years for ****s sake. The stats I'm gonna post are Jordan's season's from age 23 to 26, at his athletic prime on a team lacking other superstars so his workload is obviously heavier. Check LBJ's stats on a similar circumstance when he was carrying the heavy load on the Cavs or even include his Heat season stats, LBJ can't hang with MJ. Also keep in mind LBJ plays in a pvssyball era with no big men clogging the lane, rules changed to favor the perimeter game and handchecking is now illegal. You would think all that would push Bron's production past MJ...
:bowdown:
1986-87 age 23, 37.1 ppg, .482 FG%, 4.6 asts, 5.2 rebs, 2.9 spg
1987-88 age 24, 35 ppg, .535 FG%, 5.9 asts, 5.5 rebs, 3.2 spg
1988-89 age 25, 32.5 ppg, .538 FG%, 8 asts, 8 rebs, 2.9 spg
1989-90 age 26, 33.6 ppg, .526 FG%, 6.3 asts, 6.9 rebs, 2.8 spg

If Bron was putting those numbers up, the LBJ stans would be going out of their minds.:pimp:

:lol
:bowdown:
Peak vs Peak, LBJ not even close to MJ's level.

[LeBird]

MJ not being able to get past those 80s Celtics and Pistons not equal to LBJ getting his Cavs to the Finals in a very weak East, didn't face a .500 team until the ECFs while the East was loaded in the 80s (Celtics, Pistons, Cavs) context, brah or you gonna claim LBJ's Cavs would've beaten those 80s teams:facepalm

If you've been here longer than a few weeks, you would know I never have claimed MJ>KAJ or Wilt, never saw them play. I've followed the NBA since the mid80s and I think MJ has been the best player in that time span until today...

Jordan without Pippen couldn't get the Bulls to .500 let alone do what Lebron did that year. Of course Lebron wouldn't have won in the 80s either, but let's not pretend that Lebron hasn't done amazing things which Jordan didn't do either. Jordan had trouble just cracking into the playoffs.

And you've touched on my point without understanding it. If achievements are hard to compare due to era differences then so are stats. So your whole spiel in the opening post is a crappy argument.

If players are within a point or two in most categories then they are comparable. Saying they're on whole other levels is nonsense.

[BabyBull]

LeBron is 6'8 260 lbs, 27 years old and is just now learning how to play effectively in the post.

Still lacks reliable midrange game.

Still lacks ability to play off-ball effectively.

Face it, LeBron is just a brute force type player who relies on physical advantages. He overpowers the competition. The most ungraceful superstar athlete to pick up a basketball, next to Shaq.

[TMacMagic]

ooooohhh

People gettin a little bit testy :rolleyes:

[riseagainst]

Jordan without Pippen couldn't get the Bulls to .500 let alone do what Lebron did that year. Of course Lebron wouldn't have won in the 80s either, but let's not pretend that Lebron hasn't done amazing things which Jordan didn't do either. Jordan had trouble just cracking into the playoffs.

And you've touched on my point without understanding it. If achievements are hard to compare due to era differences then so are stats. So your whole spiel in the opening post is a crappy argument.

If players are within a point or two in most categories then they are comparable. Saying they're on whole other levels is nonsense.

shows that the league was competitive in the 80s.
And quite a few individuals have done amazing things that MJ has not done. But the point is, MJ has done alot.

[LeBird]

LeBron is 6'8 260 lbs, 27 years old and is just now learning how to play effectively in the post.

Still lacks reliable midrange game.

Still lacks ability to play off-ball effectively.

Face it, LeBron is just a brute force type player who relies on physical advantages. He overpowers the competition. The most ungraceful superstar athlete to pick up a basketball, next to Shaq.


Does it matter? One can argue it doesn't. All those are a means to an end - scoring points. If all you had was the height+sky-hook you'd still be a scoring machine.


shows that the league was competitive in the 80s.
And quite a few individuals have done amazing things that MJ has not done. But the point is, MJ has done alot.

Sure, but what Lebron did was still amazing considering his teammates. If he'd actually won I think he'd already be top 5.

[NumberSix]

He's arguably the better passer

Arguably? :confusedshrug:

Jordan averaged exactly one less assist then Lebron. You can say whatever you want, but the difference between the two in the area is negligible.

ISH. Where assist stats = passing.

Yes. Because I said that, or something close to that in nature....
:hammerhead:

[BabyBull]

Does it matter? One can argue it doesn't. All those are a means to an end - scoring points. If all you had was the height+sky-hook you'd still be a scoring machine.
It kinda does matter if you want to put LeBron on the same plateau as Jordan offensively. It is kind of disrespectful to Jordan, a player who perfected his craft and dominated with skill advantage and not just natural talents.

[TheMan]

LeBird, you love knocking MJ/Bulls every chance you get, you like saying the Bulls.don't get 6 NBA titles in the 80s, that's one of your favorite arguments...I got a question for you since you like bitching that MJ couldn't get past the Celtics, in your opinion, could LBJ lead the Cavs team he took to the Finals past the 80s Celtics or 80s Pistons that MJ came up short against?

This gon be gud:oldlol:

[Young X]

Why is it wrong to believe Jordan and LeBron were close as passers?

[LeBird]

It kinda does matter if you want to put LeBron on the same plateau as Jordan offensively. It is kind of disrespectful to Jordan, a player who perfected his craft and dominated with skill advantage and not just natural talents.

Generally I'd want the guy who has a better arsenal but if the limited player is getting the job done then it doesn't matter. If both X and Y average 30 ppg then it doesn't matter if they use 1 move or 20.

This is, of course, sports. It is not just about the mental otherwise we'd be on a chess forum. Having said that, Jordan himself was a physical specimen; Lebron's just an even better one.

[WockaVodka]

Insecure much? :confusedshrug:

[LeBird]

Why is it wrong to believe Jordan and LeBron were close as passers?

Depends what you're basing that on. Lebron and Jordan have similar assist per game stats as Bird. They're nowhere near his level though. So using that stat, as someone has done here, is an easy way to be misled.

I'd argue that Lebron is a better passer than Jordan. More willing, more creative, and more interested in the higher percentage passes.

[TheMan]

LeBron is 6'8 260 lbs, 27 years old and is just now learning how to play effectively in the post.

Still lacks reliable midrange game.

Still lacks ability to play off-ball effectively.

Face it, LeBron is just a brute force type player who relies on physical advantages. He overpowers the competition. The most ungraceful superstar athlete to pick up a basketball, next to Shaq.
That crab dribble and his usual dribbling at the top of the key no a thing of beauty for you?:oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Why is it wrong to believe Jordan and LeBron were close as passers?
because wrong = wrong

[BrickingStar]

The OP and friends are getting trolled like dumb bitches but that's to be expected from ISH but honestly if I had to paint a Mythical God I would choose LeBron over MJ and Kobe they don't really have the body/facial structure that would look like a human like God just saying. Unless I turn MJ into some half bird half human kind of god where he's leaping into the skies then that could work.

[LeBird]

LeBird, you love knocking MJ/Bulls every chance you get, you like saying the Bulls.don't get 6 NBA titles in the 80s, that's one of your favorite arguments...I got a question for you since you like bitching that MJ couldn't get past the Celtics, in your opinion, could LBJ lead the Cavs team he took to the Finals past the 80s Celtics or 80s Pistons that MJ came up short against?

This gon be gud:oldlol:

Unfortunately, there seems to be this perception that Jordan is untouchable, which is nonsense and the Bulls accomplishments are comparable to those by great teams in the 80s, which they aren't. And these topics seem to get rehashed a lot in every thread, hence my participation.

No, I don't think Lebron could get past them but on the other hand I'd never have expected Lebron to take the Cavs to the finals even though that happened. Point being: Lebron did something with a weak side that I really doubt Jordan could do. Lebron, like Bird and Magic, had more intangibles when it came to making their teammates play better to elevate them to those kinds of fairy tale runs. Jordan, especially in those weaker Bulls teams, was never that kind of player. So that season, where Lebron did take them to the finals, was amazing...even if it is not statistically superior to many of the Jordan seasons you cited.

[magnax1]

:hammerhead:
Great job at pointing out..... nothing.....
All I did was post some stats to try and show that they were similar. Never said anything close to assists=passing, and never thought it was true.
Fact is that Jordan has dominated games with his passing just like Lebron. Go watch the 91 Finals and learn something instead of trying to twist peoples words to win useless arguments.

[NumberSix]

Great job at pointing out..... nothing.....
All I did was post some stats to try and show that they were similar. Never said anything close to assists=passing, and never thought it was true.
You're embarrassing yourself.

[WockaVodka]

Jordan was just as good of a passer as Lebron was, maybe even better. Jordan averaged like triple-double when he played point for a while.

[TMacMagic]

Jordan was just as good of a passer as Lebron was, maybe even better. Jordan averaged like triple-double when he played point for a while.

Also, when you look at the career averages in turnovers Jordan averaged 3 less than LeBron.

[BabyBull]

magnax1, you're being tricked into believing that thinking Jordan = James at passing is wrong.

Don't fall for that crap.

[magnax1]

Jordan was just as good of a passer as Lebron was, maybe even better. Jordan averaged like triple-double when he played point for a while.
True. They both actually put up similar stats while playing point. Jordan put up 33-10-12 over about a month, and Lebron put up 32-7-11 over a similar length. Might have the dates a bit wrong, but close enough.


magnax1, you're being tricked into believing that thinking Jordan = James at passing is wrong.

Don't fall for that crap.
It's difficult to be tricked when the opposing argument is based on twisting peoples words and baseless insults.

[Young X]

Depends what you're basing that on. Lebron and Jordan have similar assist per game stats as Bird. They're nowhere near on his level though. So using that stat, as someone has done here, is an easy way to be misled.

I'd argue that Lebron is a better passer than Jordan. More willing, more creative, and more interested in the higher percentage passes.

I agree that LeBron and Jordan weren't on Bird's level in terms of passing ability, but IMO they were were near his level in terms of playmaking ability because of their superior ability to break down defenders off the dribble and find open teammates. To me assists are more of a reflection of playmaking abilty, then passing ability, and to me that's why Bird, Jordan, and Lebron have similar assists numbers (Despite Bird being a better passer than both).

[Indian guy]

Dedicated to the LeBronytes here who have now replaced the Kobe kids as the next pups nipping at the top dog's heel. To us basketball fans who have been watching before 2000, we already now this but I want to see the LBJ stans make their case and don't use hypotheticals like "Bron will win these many titles" BS. Stop it, he has one in 9 years for ****s sake. The stats I'm gonna post are Jordan's season's from age 23 to 26, at his athletic prime on a team lacking other superstars so his workload is obviously heavier. Check LBJ's stats on a similar circumstance when he was carrying the heavy load on the Cavs or even include his Heat season stats, LBJ can't hang with MJ. Also keep in mind LBJ plays in a pvssyball era with no big men clogging the lane, rules changed to favor the perimeter game and handchecking is now illegal. You would think all that would push Bron's production past MJ...
:bowdown:
1986-87 age 23, 37.1 ppg, .482 FG%, 4.6 asts, 5.2 rebs, 2.9 spg
1987-88 age 24, 35 ppg, .535 FG%, 5.9 asts, 5.5 rebs, 3.2 spg
1988-89 age 25, 32.5 ppg, .538 FG%, 8 asts, 8 rebs, 2.9 spg
1989-90 age 26, 33.6 ppg, .526 FG%, 6.3 asts, 6.9 rebs, 2.8 spg

If Bron was putting those numbers up, the LBJ stans would be going out of their minds.:pimp:

You are one terrible poster. Don't know how you have avoided my IL for so long. But not anymore. Bye.

[LeBird]

I agree that LeBron and Jordan weren't on Bird's level in terms of passing ability, but IMO they were were near his level in terms of playmaking ability because of their superior ability to break down defenders off the dribble and find open teammates.

No they weren't, and it's not even close IMO. Bird's rival for passing is Magic. Would you even dream to compare Lebron or Jordan to Magic? I don't think so. The only reason Bird didn't have more assists is because he played in a position and role that was less ball dominant. There are very few people with Bird's vision of the court. In terms of off the dribble play-making, I'd say Lebron is closer than Jordan is simply because he was far more likely to pass.

As I said, don't be misled by the assist stats. Magic=Bird>>Lebron>Jordan.

[StateOfMind12]

Jordan was just as skilled of a passer as Lebron was. Kobe and Wade were just as skilled of a passer as Lebron was as well.

The difference is that Lebron was a more willing passer than both which is why he was a better passer than both.

Not a hard concept to figure out.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You are one terrible poster. Don't know how you have avoided my IL for so long. But not anymore. Bye.

LOL at your imaginary ignore list.

[TMacMagic]

No they weren't, and it's not even close. Bird's rival for passing is Magic. Would you even dream to compare Lebron or Jordan to Magic? I don't think so. The only reason Bird didn't have more assists is because he played in a position and role that was less ball dominant. There are very few people with Bird's vision of the court. In terms of off the dribble play-making, I'd say Lebron is closer than Jordan is.

As I said, don't be misled by the assist stats. Magic=Bird>>Lebron>Jordan.
Magic averaged about 20 turnovers a game for his career. Am I wrong to attribute the turnovers to his fancy passing ( and sub-par ball-handling ) ?

[pauk]

Jordan dropped more points *cough* shot many more FG attempts *cough*, but Lebron averaged more rebounds & assists

[KDTrey5]

Magic averaged about 20 turnovers a game for his career. Am I wrong to attribute the turnovers to his fancy passing ( and sub-par ball-handling ) ?
:wtf:

[magnax1]

Jordan was just as skilled of a passer as Lebron was. Kobe and Wade were just as skilled of a passer as Lebron was as well.

The difference is that Lebron was a more willing passer than both which is why he was a better passer than both.

Not a hard concept to figure out.
I dont disagree with this (except for Wade, he was a great passer in some ways and flawed in some) The fact is that Jordan did have an ability to pass just as well as Lebron though, so when it was needed it was there. As I said before, he completely dominated the 91 finals with his passing, and I don't think I've seen Lebron do a much better job then that. He didn't look to facilitate consistently like Lebron did, but he also knew when and when not too, which I think Lebron can sometimes loose his grip on.
Of course Jordan was a considerably better scorer too, so it would be best if he didn't look to facilitate as much as Lebron anyway.

[pauk]

I agree that LeBron and Jordan weren't on Bird's level in terms of passing ability, but IMO they were were near his level in terms of playmaking ability because of their superior ability to break down defenders off the dribble and find open teammates. To me assists are more of a reflection of playmaking abilty, then passing ability, and to me that's why Bird, Jordan, and Lebron have similar assists numbers (Despite Bird being a better passer than both).

You are a loony, Lebron's vision/passing and production in that department is the best in NBA history as a non-PG.... the only guy AFTER him is Larry Bird... at Lebrons size its only Magic Johnson who had better playmaking/PG skills like that...

[TheMan]

LOL at your imaginary ignore list.
lol

like I give a shit a Bron stan ignores me:oldlol:

[Indian guy]

Jordan was just as good of a passer as Lebron was, maybe even better. Jordan averaged like triple-double when he played point for a while.

MJ was an excellent passer, but not on LeBron's level, no.

[TMacMagic]

:wtf:

Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about. lol

[StateOfMind12]

The fact is that Jordan did have an ability to pass just as well as Lebron though, so when it was needed it was there. As I said before, he completely dominated the 91 finals with his passing, and I don't think I've seen Lebron do a much better job then that. He didn't look to facilitate consistently like Lebron did, but he also knew when and when not too, which I think Lebron can sometimes loose his grip on.
I think the difference is that Lebron sets up his scoring with his passing while Jordan sets ups his passing with his scoring.

In the 2012 ECF, the Celtics preferred to double Wade and let LeBron beat them with his scoring and it worked for most of the series. They knew that Lebron was just a more dangerous passer than Wade was and probably an overall more dangerous passer than he was a scorer.

The same thing with the 2012 Finals. They didn't really double LeBron until Game 5/elimination game of that series and LeBron got a triple double in that game and like 11 or 13 assists in that game.

[NumberSix]

LeBron passes a good ball.

[BabyBull]

Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about. lol
You'll fit right in with these other guys.

[TMacMagic]

You'll fit right in with these other guys.

:D

[Young X]

Jordan dropped more points *cough* shot many more FG attempts *cough*, but Lebron averaged more rebounds & assists
The one year MJ didn't play with an all-time great rebounder along side of him, he averaged more rebounds than LeBron ever has.

[LeBird]

I think the difference is that Lebron sets up his scoring with his passing while Jordan sets ups his passing with his scoring.


Very good description IMO.

[LeBird]

The one year MJ didn't play with an all-time great rebounder along side of him, he averaged more rebounds than LeBron ever has.

The highest Jordan ever rebounded per game was 8 - Lebron's had two years like that. He's also a consistently higher than Jordan in other years.

Also, Horace Grant may not be an ATG rebounder but he was damned good.

[greymatter]

Dedicated to the LeBronytes here who have now replaced the Kobe kids as the next pups nipping at the top dog's heel. To us basketball fans who have been watching before 2000, we already now this but I want to see the LBJ stans make their case and don't use hypotheticals like "Bron will win these many titles" BS. Stop it, he has one in 9 years for ****s sake. The stats I'm gonna post are Jordan's season's from age 23 to 26, at his athletic prime on a team lacking other superstars so his workload is obviously heavier. Check LBJ's stats on a similar circumstance when he was carrying the heavy load on the Cavs or even include his Heat season stats, LBJ can't hang with MJ. Also keep in mind LBJ plays in a pvssyball era with no big men clogging the lane, rules changed to favor the perimeter game and handchecking is now illegal. You would think all that would push Bron's production past MJ...
:bowdown:
1986-87 age 23, 37.1 ppg, .482 FG%, 4.6 asts, 5.2 rebs, 2.9 spg
1987-88 age 24, 35 ppg, .535 FG%, 5.9 asts, 5.5 rebs, 3.2 spg
1988-89 age 25, 32.5 ppg, .538 FG%, 8 asts, 8 rebs, 2.9 spg
1989-90 age 26, 33.6 ppg, .526 FG%, 6.3 asts, 6.9 rebs, 2.8 spg

If Bron was putting those numbers up, the LBJ stans would be going out of their minds.:pimp:

Factor in pace and the 2% higher league average shooting in the late 80s, Lebron could very well have put up similar scoring and fg% (while still easily putting up more rpg/apg) were he to play in that era. Taking this into account, their raw production is pretty close.

[Indian guy]

Factor in pace and the 2% higher league average shooting in the late 80s, Lebron could very well have put up similar scoring and fg% (while still easily putting up more rpg/apg) were he to play in that era. Taking this into account, their raw production is pretty close.

Oh, no doubt. LeBron in the late 80's would consistently average 31/9/8/52%/30+ PER.

[riseagainst]

Oh, no doubt. LeBron in the late 80's would consistently average 31/9/8/52%/30+ PER.

:lol :roll: :roll: :facepalm :no:
talk about complete homerism.

[Young X]

The highest Jordan ever rebounded per game was 8 - Lebron's had two years like that. He's also a consistently higher than Jordan in other years.

Also, Horace Grant may not be an ATG rebounder but he was damned good.
Yeah, but don't you think that the combination of Oakley/Grant/Rodman and Pippen had an effect on Jordan's rebounding?

[Indian guy]

:lol :roll: :roll: :facepalm :no:
talk about complete homerism.

Huh? He averaged 30/7/9/50% just 2 years ago. Factor in higher pace and weaker defenses of the late 80's, you don't think his numbers would go up? He would easily be a more productive player statistically 25 years ago.

[TMacMagic]

With the defense from back then Lebron would be lucky to average 25 ppg.

[NumberSix]

The one year MJ didn't play with an all-time great rebounder along side of him, he averaged more rebounds than LeBron ever has.
Ahhh yes. The completely made up numberless-stat. A true classic.

[DaSeba5]

lol no i doubt that, considering most the trolls on this board are Lebron stans.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[NumberSix]

With the defense from back then Lebron would be lucky to average 25 ppg.
Defense from........ the 80's?



http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6rw6wcme91qlcg1w.gif

[Cali Syndicate]

Jordan dropped more points *cough* shot many more FG attempts *cough*, but Lebron averaged more rebounds & assists

Lebron is a forward. His position naturally has him in better position for more rebounds than a SG. However all in all, I do think Lebron was stronger on the boards.

As for the assists, Lebron plays like a PG, MJ didn't. But the season MJ had to take on PG duties, he was just as capable a facilitator and play maker as Lebron was/is.

[BabyBull]

Huh? He averaged 30/7/9/50% just 2 years ago. Factor in higher pace and weaker defenses of the late 80's, you don't think his numbers would go up? He would easily be a more productive player statistically 25 years ago.
You're right, for once.

[TMacMagic]

Defense from........ the 80's?



http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6rw6wcme91qlcg1w.gif
I don't see what's so funny. As I recall defense has been pretty soft since the mid 90's.

[NumberSix]

I don't see what's so funny. As I recall defense has been pretty soft since the mid 90's.
Shhhh. Grown ups are talking.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Unfortunately, there seems to be this perception that Jordan is untouchable, which is nonsense and the Bulls accomplishments are comparable to those by great teams in the 80s, which they aren't. And these topics seem to get rehashed a lot in every thread, hence my participation.

No, I don't think Lebron could get past them but on the other hand I'd never have expected Lebron to take the Cavs to the finals even though that happened. Point being: Lebron did something with a weak side that I really doubt Jordan could do. Lebron, like Bird and Magic, had more intangibles when it came to making their teammates play better to elevate them to those kinds of fairy tale runs. Jordan, especially in those weaker Bulls teams, was never that kind of player. So that season, where Lebron did take them to the finals, was amazing...even if it is not statistically superior to many of the Jordan seasons you cited.

Jordan with his '89 Bulls cast in the '05-'07 EC easily makes the Finals. Easily. And his '89 cast wasn't that good at all yet. He probably even takes a game or two from SA in '07 just on individual brilliance.

[TMacMagic]

Shhhh. Grown ups are talking.

Haha, wow, I find it extremely amusing you think y'all are talking. More like arguing over pointless stats when the fact that Michael Jordan is the better player is all too clear.

Now, I did get my specific dates wrong ( my bad ) but, what I was trying to say was that if LeBron had been playing during the tougher eras defense wise he most likely wouldn't be putting big numbers. Especially MJ numbers. If you can't get next to that idea then fine, don't respond, but refrain from trying to put me down for having an opinion, and/or making mistakes.

[NumberSix]

Haha, wow, I find it extremely amusing you think y'all are talking. More like arguing over pointless stats when the fact that Michael Jordan is the better player is all too clear.

Now, I did get my specific dates wrong ( my bad ) but, what I was trying to say was that if LeBron had been playing during the tougher eras defense wise he most likely wouldn't be putting big numbers. Especially MJ numbers.
Tough defensive eras like the 80's?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4ws8aa8am1qhg2zj.gif

[swag2011]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

what exactly was funny? Did you not read this board? Any of the threads that have Kobe's name in the title, you already know a Lebron stan is making their way in there. But you're one of them Heat stans so i wouldn't expect you to think rationally.

[NumberSix]

what exactly was funny?
Your face.

[LeBird]

Jordan with his '89 Bulls cast in the '05-'07 EC easily makes the Finals. Easily. And his '89 cast wasn't that good at all yet. He probably even takes a game or two from SA in '07 just on individual brilliance.

Jordan has Pippen and Grant in 89. My comparison was Jordan without those two as the comparison only makes sense with Jordan being without his famous 3-peating buddies vs Lebron taking the Cavs to the finals by himself.


Yeah, but don't you think that the combination of Oakley/Grant/Rodman and Pippen had an effect on Jordan's rebounding?

If anything they were brought in because Jordan wasn't that great a rebounder. He's good for his position but his teams clearly lacked on the boards and that is why those players were acquired. Lebron could play PF and be one of the better rebounders in the league, regardless of position, if that was what his coach wanted. This shouldn't even be a comparison.

[Lebron23]

Tough defensive eras like the 80's?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4ws8aa8am1qhg2zj.gif


The guy don't know $hit about basketball. Lesser players like Alex English averaged 30 ppg in the 1980's. LeBron would be a much better player in the high scoring 1980's.

[KOBE143]

Lebron has never been at Kobe's level (06-08).. Why compare him to GOAT? :confusedshrug:

[andgar923]

The guy don't $hit about basketball. Lesser players like Alex English averaged 30 ppg in the 1980's. LeBron would be a much better player in the high scoring 1980's.

Maybe he was a lesser player, but not necessarily a lesser scorer.

English's mid range game was superior to Bron's in every way shape and form.

[TheMan]

Maybe he was a lesser player, but not necessarily a lesser scorer.

English's mid range game was superior to Bron's in every way shape and form.
lol at you trying to educate these Bron kids...don't waste your time.

[staywhite]

They made the rim size smaller after jordan retired, much harder to score now

:hammerhead:

[staywhite]

Lebron has never been at Kobe's level (06-08).. Why compare him to GOAT? :confusedshrug:

get that fg% up then come back and talk

[pauk]

get that fg% up, that eFG% up, that ts% up, that PER up, those rebounds up, those assists up, that defensive and offensive versatility up and also that clutch shooting fg% up, more mvps and so on and remove your sidekick history then come back and talk

fixed

[riseagainst]

get that fg% up then come back and talk

get those championships up then come back and talk.
inb4 "kobe got carried" LOL lebronytes are funny

[riseagainst]

fixed

stay with your organization and don't team up with a top 2 sg and top 5 pf in the game; don't get outscored by a bench player in the finals; don't have the biggest ppg drop off from regular season to the finals by a superstar; then come back and talk. OH wait already have those.

should have fixed it to this. :lol

[pauk]

stay with your organization and don't team up with a top 2 sg and top 5 pf in the game; don't get outscored by a bench player in the finals; don't have the biggest ppg drop off from regular season to the finals by a superstar; then come back and talk. OH wait already have those. :lol

Have you seen what Kobe did in the 2000 Finals and 2004 Finals? No? Dropoff? There wasnt any need for a dropoff with Kobe, because he was a dropoff that entire time....

Dont team up? Comparing Kobes or Magics or Birds situation and so on to Lebrons is stupid.... he would have never left if he got what they got on a silverplate...

That's not a major accomplishment. Let's just use Magic & Kobe for an example. What could possibly be the circumstances that would cause Magic or Kobe to want to leave the Lakers? They are drafted/traded to one of the most storied franchises that has the best players or one of the 2 best in the game in Kareem/Shaq at the time, who was also the league's MVP. Then despite winning titles and Shaq leaving, somehow the organization is still able to continuously draft and add hall of famers to the roster over the next couple of years in Worthy and McAdoo and Gasol and so on. To top it off, Magic has the DPOY coming off of the bench by '87. Poor Magic.. Poor Kobe.... They deserve a medal for sticking it out through such hard times in LA. :facepalm

Celebrating Kobe for staying with the team that got him is like praising Jay Z for "enduring the struggles of having to have sex with Beyonce' every night." Poor Jay Z...How does he do it?

[NOHCP3]

One day the world will lose all religious dominations and basketball will become the new cult. With Jordanites,Kobe lovers, and Lebron-disciples going to war in fulfillment of the Insidehoops scriptures.. This is just a preview.

[riseagainst]

That's not a major accomplishment. Let's just use Magic for an example. What could possibly be the circumstances that would cause Magic to want to leave the Lakers? He is drafted to one of the most storied franchises that has the best player in the game in Kareem at the time, who was also the league's MVP. Then despite winning a title, somehow the organization is still able to continuously draft and add hall of famers to the roster over the next couple of years in Worthy and McAdoo. To top it off, he has the DPOY coming off of the bench by '87. Poor Magic...He deserves a medal for sticking it out through such hard times in LA. :facepalm

Celebrating Magic for staying with the team that drafted him is like praising Jay Z for "enduring the struggles of having to have sex with Beyonce' every night." Poor Jay Z...How does he do it?

that's such a twisted argument. What you are saying is people like Magic and Kobe are lucky to be with a successful franchise from day 1, while Lebron did not. Sort of like a gift, their success were handed to them on a plate. While
Lebron was not so lucky to have been with a good franchise. But I can essentially say Lebron is only good because of his lucky and gifted genetics.
If Kobe had Lebron's genetics then he'd be tons better.
But why do people counter that and say that's part of the game and shouldn't be used as an argument to compare people? Like saying "oh that guy's only good BECAUSE of his height" or some outrageous crap like that.
When reality hits, all those what ifs are only assumptions, and assumptions doesn't mean jack. What you have done is what you have done. Lebron may have been unlucky with Cleveland but using that as an argument to lift his status, or hinder others' statuses is dumb. just like using the "he's only good because of his athleticism" and "if ___ had ___'s genetics then he'd be god" arguments. just a bunch of speculative nonsense.

[StateOfMind12]

With the defense from back then Lebron would be lucky to average 25 ppg.
I doubt it. Great players always find a way to produce regardless of the circumstance.


I don't see what's so funny. As I recall defense has been pretty soft since the mid 90's.
Defenses are more fundamentally sound today than it was back then. The game was more physical back then though but not particularly fundamentally sound.

I doubt a simple hand check would stop Lebron from producing especially since he is one of the most athletic players ever. Also, the pace was faster which is to Lebron's benefit since he maybe the greatest open-court player that has ever played.

[TMacMagic]

I doubt it. Great players always find a way to produce regardless of the circumstance.


Defenses are more fundamentally sound today than it was back then. The game was more physical back then though but not particularly fundamentally sound.

I doubt a simple hand check would stop Lebron from producing especially since he is one of the most athletic players ever. Also, the pace was faster which is to Lebron's benefit since he maybe the greatest open-court player that has ever played.

Okay yeah, I get what you're saying. I do however disagree that Lebron is the greatest open-court player oat. I no that you said maybe but I think you could make a case for a lot of other players. (Players I won't name cuz i'll probably get bashed )

[BlueandGold]

I seriously doubt his NBA potential but sure seems like a damn nice kid.

[TheMan]

A thread about MJ vs LBJ predictably has turned into a Kobe vs LBJ thread:oldlol:

[NumberSix]

A thread about MJ vs LBJ predictably has turned into a Kobe vs LBJ thread:oldlol:
Can we just forget about the "Kobe Vs. ____" discussions already? That ship has sailed.

[DirtySanchez]

Can we just forget about the "Kobe Vs. ____" discussions already? That ship has sailed.


I think all VS. threads have sailed as well.