Swap LeBron & Melo. Which team goes further? Heat or Knicks?

[Rowe]

Title says it all.

Knicks:

PG - Raymond Felton
SG - JR Smith
SF - LeBron James
PF - Amare Stoudemire
C - Tyson Chandler


Heat:

PG - Mario Chalmers
SG - Dwyane Wade
SF - Shane Battier
PF - Carmelo Anthony
C - Chris Bosh


Which team would go further in the Playoffs?

Who wins in a 7 game series?

[IGotACoolStory]

The team without Melo.

[guy]

Knicks, but I don't think either team makes the Finals.

[Rowe]

Knicks, but I don't think either team makes the Finals.

In the East? :lol Is Boston supposed to be better?

[StateOfMind12]

Heat lose in the 1st round
Knicks possibly make it to the Finals.


Why? Cause LeBron is superior to Melo in everything and by a lot.

[Rowe]

The team without Melo.

Interesting.

So Wade/Melo/Bosh as a core is worse than LeBron leading this Knicks team who is allegedly full of "scrubs, a fat PG, & a terrible SG"?

[IGotACoolStory]

LeBron's done better with worse before.

[Rowe]

Heat lose in the 1st round
Knicks possibly make it to the Finals.


Why? Cause LeBron is superior to Melo in everything and by a lot.

You've been claiming the Knicks couldn't win with or without Melo because of the same players you see playing with LeBron, but now we've got the pieces to be a Championship contender?

RG your Melo trolling has got to the point where you're not even consistent with your "arguments". You were good a few years back with Dwight Howard but you're slipping as of late.

[Haymaker]

Knicks obviously. Melo will create locker room tension and he won't share the ball. The guy don't have the defensive impact of Lebron. Bron playing alongside a great defensive center like Chandler would be awesome. Kicking out the ball to Novak would be awesome too. Amare would get his fair share of passes too.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Heat. Wade would now be allowed to be Wade.

Lebron needs to be able to pass the ball to scorers, esp in the 4th quarter, and the Knicks don't have enuf.

[StateOfMind12]

You've been claiming the Knicks couldn't win with or without Melo because of the same players you see playing with LeBron, but now we've got the pieces to be a Championship contender?
I never said anything about Lebron so now you are just making stuff up.

I never said the Knicks had the pieces of a championship contender. I just said with Lebron they could make it to the Finals.

You realize that doesn't mean their championship contenders right? Unless you want to classify the 2007 Cavs, 2001-2002 Nets championship contenders.


RG your Melo trolling has got to the point where you're not even consistent with your "arguments". You were good a few years back with Dwight Howard but you're slipping as of late.
I'm not trolling. Melo is inferior to Lebron at everything and I like how you accuse me of being someone else just because I don't like Melo. Why would I like some selfish overrated ****?

You're pathetic.

[Rowe]

Knicks obviously. Melo will create locker room tension and he won't share the ball. The guy don't have the defensive impact of Lebron. Bron playing alongside a great defensive center like Chandler would be awesome. Kicking out the ball to Novak would be awesome too. Amare would get his fair share of passes too.

This is the first time I've heard this.

What do you think about Felton & JR Smith?

[guy]

In the East? :lol Is Boston supposed to be better?

I was thinking it was for this past season. Its still possible.

[tmacattack33]

Heat would be pretty good. Wade would become batman and could do it. Melo would help with spacing. Defense would suffer though, as was would their fast break and passing.

Knicks would be good too.

Both would be very close to Boston's level if healthy.

[Nash]

Lebron took a 9 games Bosh-less team with an injured Wade to the championship. Last seasons Lebron would absolutely take the Knicks team to the finals.

Felton/Kidd
Shump/JR
Lebron
Amare
Chandler/Camby

>>>

Chalmers
Wade(playing injured)
Battier
Lebron
Haslem

[Celtic_Pride]

Heat team will be horrible defensively when you replace Bron with Melo. No way they are winning the 'ship with that starting lineup. Though Bron will make everyone in the Knicks better, I doubt they have enough offensive firepower to win it all!

Even I think Boston will beat both the teams

[Kews1]

Knicks, Lebron plays like 40mins a night to cover up for the lack of bench Miami has, not sure how many mins Melo plays a night but i doubt its enough to cover the fact Miami is mediocre on the bench.

[Rowe]

I never said anything about Lebron so now you are just making stuff up.

I never said the Knicks had the pieces of a championship contender. I just said with Lebron they could make it to the Finals.

You realize that doesn't mean their championship contenders right? Unless you want to classify the 2007 Cavs, 2001-2002 Nets championship contenders.

You just walk yourself into a corner continously.

A team who possibly would make the Finals is not a "Championship Contender"? Thats a bunch of BS. Any team who you can look at on paper and say they can reach the NBA Finals is a "Championship Contender". The Cavs & Nets are irrelevant because that happened after the fact as a surprise, it wasn't something anybody believed would happen looking at their team on paper. Notice how you acknowledged Miami wouldn't get out of the 1st Round with Melo being swapped with LeBron. Once again, this is you judging them on paper. Miami would not be a "Championship contender" if you don't think they can advance past Round 1.




I'm not trolling. Melo is inferior to Lebron at everything and I like how you accuse me of being someone else just because I don't like Melo. Why would I like some selfish overrated ****?

You're pathetic.

That is no accusation. Why are you hiding from the fact you are RocketsGreatness, when that is the only reason your posts get any attention?:confusedshrug: Most people wouldn't waste time responding to your new gimmick of being a LeBron stan if they didn't know you are RG.

As far as LeBron & Melo are concerned, I fully understand he's a superior player to Melo with his all around approach on offense & effort/versatility on defense. There is no doubt he'd make an impact on the Knicks. However, the whole argument of why peope say the Knicks can't contend with Miami(or Chicago/Boston) is because their pieces don't fit together.

I just find it funny that Melo suddenly makes the Heat a worse team despite playing with excellent perimeter defense, a superstar like Wade, & a forward like Bosh. In the same breath LeBron suddenly makes all of our "overpaid scrubs & fat PG" somehow a superior team to the Heat without any doubt.

[Rowe]

Lebron took a 9 games Bosh-less team with an injured Wade to the championship. Last seasons Lebron would absolutely take the Knicks team to the finals.

Felton/Kidd
Shump/JR
Lebron
Amare
Chandler/Camby

>>>

Chalmers
Wade(playing injured)
Battier
Lebron
Haslem

Talking about this upcoming season.

- Assuming Shump is still out til February, Wade/Amare each are healthy, & both teams continue on with the lineups that worked for them.(ex: Heat playing Bosh as a C instead of Joel Anthony)

[StateOfMind12]

A team who possibly would make the Finals is not a "Championship Contender"? Thats a bunch of BS. Any team who you can look at on paper and say they can reach the NBA Finals is a "Championship Contender".
They could make it to the Finals. I have very high doubts they could win though so interpret it however you would like. If you want to interpret them as title contenders then go ahead.


The Cavs & Nets are irrelevant because that happened after the fact as a surprise, it wasn't something anybody believed would happen looking at their team on paper. Notice how you acknowledged Miami wouldn't get out of the 1st Round with Melo being swapped with LeBron. Once again, this is you judging them on paper. Miami would not be a "Championship contender" if you don't think they can advance past Round 1.
The Heat are a championship contender because of LeBron and without him they are not.



That is no accusation. Why are you hiding from the fact you are RocketsGreatness, when that is the only reason your posts get any attention?:confusedshrug: Most people wouldn't waste time responding to your new gimmick of being a LeBron stan if they didn't know you are RG.
Because I am not him? Feel free to check the IP address but once again you only accuse me of being him because you don't agree with what I'm saying.

You're pretty pathetic quite honestly for doing this. If you want to discuss basketball then do it then again I would change the subject if I was wrong most of the time like you.


I just find it funny that Melo suddenly makes the Heat a worse team despite playing with excellent perimeter defense, a superstar like Wade, & a forward like Bosh. In the same breath LeBron suddenly makes all of our "overpaid scrubs & fat PG" somehow a superior team to the Heat without any doubt.
I'll give you a simple equation.

Knicks trade their psuedo star player in Carmelo Anthony for a true superstar and the best player in the league with LeBron James.

Which equals the Knicks being a much better team and the Heat being a much worse team.

Like is it really that hard to understand?

[alwaysunny]

Melo wouldn't even be the alpha dog in Miami because it's Wade's team. Wade voluntarily gave LeBron the leadership role this year which helped them define as a team and ending up winning the Finals. Although Melo's shooting ability might complement Wade's game, I think lack of focal leadership may cost them if Melo doesn't accept the 2nd option role. I can't see Melo and Bosh meshing together that well either. Perhaps it's worth noting that LeBron is simply a better overall player. A lot of people were delusional last year when Melo hit few clutch shots they automatically assumed he was a better fit than LeBron for paring superstars.

LeBron can single-handedly change the face of the team. He would have a pair of defensive minded centers which he always needed and an allstar PF who can also knock down jumpers like Bosh. I think LeBron has that leadership which Melo lacks, and that can potentially change the ugly perception on the backcourt. JR is streaky but overall a good shooter, and Felton when at his best is way above average in the PG position. This actually looks like an excellent team built around LeBron, which was why we were so excited during his free agency. I think he would've thrived in D'Antoni's system if given the right players.

[niko]

You've been claiming the Knicks couldn't win with or without Melo because of the same players you see playing with LeBron, but now we've got the pieces to be a Championship contender?

RG your Melo trolling has got to the point where you're not even consistent with your "arguments". You were good a few years back with Dwight Howard but you're slipping as of late.

Remember, it's because Melo chucks too many jumpers and never gets to the line, unlike Kobe and Durant who he is RIGHT BEHIND IN THE MOST FREE THROWS PER GAME. :lol

[BankShot]

Amare/Chandler/Camby is better equipped to defend the Lakers' bigs in a potential Finals matchup than Bosh/Haslem/Anthony

Food for thought.

[funnystuff]

Lebron took way worse to the finals.

Knicks are better not even a discussion.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Miami would get better on offense, slightly worse defensively.

Knicks would improve considerably in both departments, though I think spacing would be a real issue for Lebron here, Amare and Chandler in the paint wouldn't give Lebron the freedom he has in Miami.

Miami would easily win a series and would have the better chance at a chip.

[BankShot]

Miami would get better on offense, slightly worse defensively.


I think LeBron's impact on defense is very understated by this statement.

Granted he's realistically not an elite man-to-man defender for every minute he's on the floor, but his range and versatility put him well above Melo on D

[FatComputerNerd]

Knicks.

Lebron = GOAT

time to face facts.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I think LeBron's impact on defense is very understated by this statement.

Granted he's realistically not an elite man-to-man defender for every minute he's on the floor, but his range and versatility put him well above Melo on D


Watched a bit of Miami and NYC last year , i thought Melo was played some lovely defense at the 4 probably equal to Lebron's or just below at the 4, and In Miami he'll definitely get to defend the 4 alot.

His versatility is huge loss in certain situations though , but agaisnt most teams only a marginal one.

[Hiei]

Lebron has carried bigger scrubs to the finals.

[Y2Gezee]

Heat would be best in East. Melo's a better fit in Miami with Wade and Bosh anyhow. Wade would be primary ball handler, and Melo could get so many open looks playing off of him as a shooter, and help them out with a consistent post threat. He would help with floor spacing immediately. Melo also wouldn't hurt their defense to where they'd be outside of the top 5 or higher, because the Knicks were and are going to be top 5 defense with him, and he's a big part of the reason why. But the Heat would miss Lebron's ability to cover ground in help defense situations (which he's much better at than man d). I'd say with a healthy Wade, they'd still be the top seed in East.

The Knicks current lineup with Lebron would probably be the best defense in the league, and he'd have a lot of success in the pick and roll with Tyson and Amare, but floor spacing would be a big issue now, and he'd limit Felton's productivity as a passer and basically force him to be a spot up shooter. But they'd still compete with the Celtics and probably be favored with be 2nd seed in East.

So essentially, I basically think if you switch the 2 the seeding/fate of the 2 teams doesn't change. I think the Knicks are the 2nd best team in the East this year. This is IMO the best team on paper that has ever been put around Carmelo Anthony, with a good fit at coach. They've got strong defensive players, and a system they've bought into, strong rebounding in the front court, good rebounding guards, and 2 starter quality true point guards to take that playmaking load off of Carmelo and help make Amare better, both can also help space the floor. Plus a good mix of youth and experience off the bench when they get Shumpert back. With the talent on this squad, only injuries can prevent them from having a terrific regular season in the East.

People bring up chemistry between Amare and Melo, and team chemistry offensively will need to be worked out, but the fact of the matter is, after teh Melo trade the Knicks were somewhat rebuilding and totally incomplete. They were a big 3 of Melo/Amare/Chauncey after the trade with a bunch of journeymen role players around them, no interior defense and rebounding was an issue. But the team caught fire late, but played without Billups and Amare basically after game 1 of the playoffs. As a decision for the future, they made the decision to be totally ineffective offensively at the guard position in order to get a center in Tyson when they cut Billups to sign him, which sacrificed their season as they were awaiting Baron Davis to be their saviour when he returned in February to play for the first time. They got a pg in Lin, and then Davis followed, and the team looked like a top 4 seed easily from then on. But they've put things together this year, and are going into the season with a complete team, and I think they'll be very dangerous.

[Ikill]

If its a healthy Melo and Wade playing at their 2011 level than its easily the Heat they be unstoppable offensively. Wade and Melo would be a great fit together and their talent would be fully maximized. Unlike the Wade and Lebron where one is out rhythm(mostly Wade) because the other is too ball dominant. They would be worse on defense but they would still be pretty good because they still have a good defensive coach and players. And lets not act like Lebron has the same impact on defense as a good big such as Howard or Chandler.

[Ikill]

Lebron has carried bigger scrubs to the finals.
Oh the year where the team went 3-1 without him and only lost by 3 and 1 points in the finals despite Lebron shooting under 40%. I dont think its considered carrying when your shooting under 40% every other game and i don't think you can call them scrubs when they can win games even when there best player plays terrible. Lets not forget they were a top 5 defense and rebounding team.

[pauk]

Ofcourse the Knicks

[Kiddlovesnets]

Not sure if serious...
:facepalm

[Sarcastic]

The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding.


If Lebron could carry anything to the finals, what happened his first 2 years in the league? What was the point of leaving Cleveland?

[funnystuff]

The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding.


If Lebron could carry anything to the finals, what happened his first 2 years in the league? What was the point of leaving Cleveland?
:coleman:

[Scoooter]

I didn't see anyone say he could carry anything to the Finals, just that he has indeed carried worse teammates than Amar'e, Chandler, and Felton to the Championship round. Which is of course true.

Assuming nothing else changes, the Knicks obviously get better, because Lebron is that much better than Melo. It's just a simple upgrade at the 3 spot. I also think he would average something, like, 9 or 10 assists dishing to guys like Amar'e, Chandler, and JR. Even Felton can shoot threes.

The Heat are a little different. If last season told us anything, it's that Melo is at his most effective - offensively - as an extremely ball-dominant power forward. But not ball-dominant in the same way LeBron is. LeBron can play PG or point forward, and get team mates involved very effectively. Melo needs to shoot a lot, to put up 25 shots a game and score 30 points. He doesn't give you the same efficiency or passing the James does, to say nothing of defense.

So we don't really know how well he'd work alongside someone like Wade - especially if we're talking last seasons Wade, who was not as sharp as he has been in the past. Maybe his stint with Allen Iverson is a good comparison, but that team didn't get very far. I'd say this Heat team gets worse for a number of reasons.

[veilside23]

both can succeed if they switched teams... hard to tell who will win game 7 because lebron cant guard wade and melo at the same time.. though they have chandler... he will be busy guarding bosh.

and melo is a good complimentary player to wade if that would happen... than bron to wade when its comes to wade's success as the 1st option.

[veilside23]

people seem to forget that bron had Z and varejao and a better bench when he was in cleveland than the bench new york had last year....

[Rubio2Gasol]

people seem to forget that bron had Z and varejao and a better bench when he was in cleveland than the bench new york had last year....

Unluckly last year vs Miami.

Chandler clearly wan't up to it with the Flu and all.
Shumpert......
Amare's idiocy, decline, inability to play next to Melo.
Terrible old point guards.

Just a bad team.

I was pleasantly suprised when they actually managed to get a win lol.

[stallionaire]

Heat. Wade would now be allowed to be Wade.

Lebron needs to be able to pass the ball to scorers, esp in the 4th quarter, and the Knicks don't have enuf.

If you're somehow insinuating that LeBron James doesn't allow Wade to be 'Wade', you're a f.ucking idiot.

LeBron had nothing to do with Wade's pitiful performance down the stretch this past season.

God I hate Lakers fans.

[WockaVodka]

Ummmm, Knicks. Not like Melo is playing with scrubs here and even so Lebron's team would still find a way to be better than Melo's.

[Rowe]

The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding.


If Lebron could carry anything to the finals, what happened his first 2 years in the league? What was the point of leaving Cleveland?
x2

For all the criticism the Knicks receive, it's interesting to see how suddenly the perceptions of the players change if you put LeBron on the team.

Either the Knicks roster isnt as bad as these folks keep suggesting or LeBron is some sort of God. :oldlol:

[Mach_3]

I didn't see anyone say he could carry anything to the Finals, just that he has indeed carried worse teammates than Amar'e, Chandler, and Felton to the Championship round. Which is of course true.

Against much worse competition. They didn't even play a team with a WINNING record until the conference finals, that's absolutely pathetic.

[Rowe]

Ummmm, Knicks. Not like Melo is playing with scrubs here and even so Lebron's team would still find a way to be better than Melo's.
It's not like LeBron is playing with scrubs in South Beach either.

To say a team with D-Wade, Bosh, Allen, Chalmers, Battier, Haslem, Miller, etc would take such a major step back by swapping LeBron for Melo is surprising.

Wade/Melo/Bosh would still be the best Big 3 in the NBA.

[KingBeasley08]

Knicks. Lebron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melo. Amare would start playing Gawd ball again

[StateOfMind12]

I'm pretty sure nobody has much complaints about the Knicks role players except Felton.

Most people have complaints about their stars like Melo and Amare especially Melo which are legitimate complaints. Amare is not the same Amare as he was due to his decline and injuries and then everyone knows the flaws of Melo.

[stallionaire]

The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding.


If Lebron could carry anything to the finals, what happened his first 2 years in the league? What was the point of leaving Cleveland?

Are you ****ing kidding me?

Compare the Cavs supporting cast to Melo's supporting cast in NY right now. Sit down son.

[Dwyane Rose]

The Heat would be better as long as Melo realizes that Wade is way better than him.

[Rowe]

Knicks. Lebron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melo. Amare would start playing Gawd ball again

So what is preventing him from playing "gawd ball" right now?

Also, will LeBrons magic turn the clock back 10 years for Jason Kidd too?

Maybe the entire team can stand under his powder shower.

[Scoooter]

So what is preventing him from playing "gawd ball" right now?

Also, will LeBrons magic turn the clock back 10 years for Jason Kidd too?

Maybe the entire team can stand under his powder shower.
They never give him the ball.

[Rowe]

They never give him the ball.
Nothing good happens when he touches it.

[Bigsmoke]

maybe the Heat because of the Wade

[eriX]

one of the reason why wade and lebron worked together is because they are willing to pass it to each other and take turns. However if you put melo and wade together im not so sure it will happen, i cant really see melo running on the break with wade and throwing lobs to one another.

[PJR]

First of all, it would be the Conference Finals.

Second, I'd be inclined to say the Knicks, as much as I'd hate to admit. LeBron's supreme versatality on defense makes up for Miami's lack of a true rim protecting center.

Put LeBron on the current Knicks, and he literally makes them a perfectly balanced team. LeBron ability to make plays and passes off screen and roll would make Stoudemire incredibly more effective than he is with Carmelo. And Chandler is a top tier rim protecting center today's league.

Carmelo in Miami woud still yield diminishing returns just as he does in New York. He provides nothing but isolation scoring. And I mean nothing.

[Scoooter]

Nothing good happens when he touches it.
The vast majority of his career would argue otherwise.

You're quickly turning into the new archibundi, Rowe. :lol

[alwaysunny]

x2

For all the criticism the Knicks receive, it's interesting to see how suddenly the perceptions of the players change if you put LeBron on the team.

Either the Knicks roster isnt as bad as these folks keep suggesting or LeBron is some sort of God. :oldlol:

What are you talking about? The Knicks roster is good. The reason they got a lot of flak is because they've been underperforming even with all the talent they have.

LeBron may not be god, but this Knicks team is built for him; he would be perfectly capable of winning it all with this roster.

[Xiao Yao You]

Knicks

[Lebron23]

What are you talking about? The Knicks roster is good. The reason they got a lot of flak is because they've been underperforming even with all the talent they have.

LeBron may not be god, but this Knicks team is built for him; he would be perfectly capable of winning it all with this roster.


Repped. Your Sir deserves some green bars. Come on Rowe. LBJ just won an NBA Finals MVP. Melo scored 37 points againts a $hitty Nigerian Team.

[Sarcastic]

Are you ****ing kidding me?

Compare the Cavs supporting cast to Melo's supporting cast in NY right now. Sit down son.

:facepalm YOU FCKING TROLL!!!!


Melo was with the Nuggets longer than Lebron was with the Cavs.

[NumberSix]

Probably the knicks, but neither win a championship

[ihoopallday]

Both make it to the ECF, Miami moves on to the finals.

[airchibundo507]

The vast majority of his career would argue otherwise.

You're quickly turning into the new archibundi, Rowe. :lol

I only behaved as "archibundi" to counteract the irrational melo hatred

[Scoooter]

I only behaved as "archibundi" to counteract the irrational melo hatred
It's a nice thought, but I'm not just prepared to believe you're that sane. :cheers:

[amfirst]

Heats, they have the best three point shooters and defense. All u have to do is dish to the three point line if u get double and it's almost a automatic make. Heats would be better they are more balanced and more guys can step up.

[Lebron23]

Heats, they have the best three point shooters and defense. All u have to do is dish to the three point line if u get double and it's almost a automatic make. Heats would be better they are more balanced and more guys can step up.


Your reigning 2012 Finals MVP and Regular Season MVP LeBron James!!!

http://www.inflexwetrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/IFWT-Lebron-MVP-Finals.jpg

LeBron is an all time great player while Melo is not even a top 50 players of all time.

[riseagainst]

if Melo can score 37 in 14 mins every game then the Heat might stand a chance/ :lol

[Lebron23]

if Melo can score 37 in 14 mins every game then the Heat might stand a chance/ :lol


Charlotte Bobcats would destroy the Nigerian National Team.

[chips93]

I only behaved as "archibundi" to counteract the irrational melo hatred

wait what?

i can act like a retard, and just blame other people for being retarded first?