Is it possible to be a Wade/Heat fan, & dislike LeBron?

[Rowe]

It seems like all the comparisons/arguments regarding Wade vs LeBron stopped as soon as they teamed up. A lot of the anti-LeBron, Heat fans changed their tune and seemingly began to support LeBron.

So are there any of you still out there who still support Dwyane Wade & the Miami Heat but dislike LeBron?

[TMacMagic]

Sure it is, but there really is no point. If you are a fan of the team you should be happy that the team is winning. Even if you like Wade you should be happy he's winning and he's in the position to win more championships.

LeBron is a great player, anyways, can't see why anyone would HATE him that much.

[Mr Exlax]

I'm a huge fan of Dwight Howard, but I've always hated the Orlando Magic. The only reason I would pull for the team is because Dwight is there. So yeah I think it's very possible. If Dwight goes to LA, I'm still gonna dislike Kobe.

[EnoughSaid]

I was a Wade/HEAT fan before LeBron, and I've come to like him as a player.

[SourPatchKids]

Why wouldn't it be?

[NumberSix]

Well, it's possible to be a Lakers fan and HATE every player but Kobe.

[Papaya Petee]

When LeBron first came to Miami I still didn't like him. I will never be a LeBron homer, but he is a great player and I respect him for helping Miami win. Wade however is still the Miami Heat GOAT and LeBron will never suprass him in Miami.

[NOHCP3]

Wouldn't make much sense. If you're a fan of the team then you want/need Lebron to dominate... I could see if you're a deranged Wade fan and want him to dominate and get more shots and be the main reason they are winning... But it doesn't make much sense

[r15mohd]

Why wouldn't it be?

You can dislike a player, rival at that, prior to joining your team...Lebron on CLE wasnt liked by many because he usually topped Wade and the Heat, as well as many other teams. Same goes for Ray Allen and the Celtics. Nash on the Suns, and so on.

But now that they are apart of the team, it's pretty easy to root for them as they benefit the team more so than stop their chances. If the team winning is in your best interest, regardless of players involved, why would you hate on talents like Allen or Lebron being apart of that?!? :confusedshrug:

[plowking]

It seems like all the comparisons/arguments regarding Wade vs LeBron stopped as soon as they teamed up. A lot of the anti-LeBron, Heat fans changed their tune and seemingly began to support LeBron.

So are there any of you still out there who still support Dwyane Wade & the Miami Heat but dislike LeBron?

I'll admit, I was one of Lebron's biggest haters on here. As soon as he switched to the Heat I started celebrating though. :oldlol:
He and Bosh have become two of my favorite players on the Heat, particularly Bosh, who I've always liked anyway.

Its hard to hate him. You have the best player and MVP of the league on your team. I can't exactly hate him. He is the reason we are where we are.

EDIT: I'll just add it was the same for Ray Allen. I can't stand the Celtics, and I started to loathe Allen as much as players like KG, but now... lol, hes a legend.

[gasolina]

I think that's the way to go. It's sad that the NBA has gone to be a superstar league where fans root for certain players instead of teams. There were people openly saying they'd follow Lebron no matter where he went. There were also people who said that they'd be Cavs fans for life, and jump ship faster than their idol could say where the proceeds are going to.

To be honest, sometimes I think fans would rather have their idol scoring 40 on a loss than going 6/24 on a win.

This is where I respect football/soccer fans the most. They root for an actual team/club.

It'd be interesting to see what happens to the Laker fanbase once Kobe retires.

[Peteballa]

I was a Wade/HEAT fan before LeBron, and I've come to like him as a player.

This sums it up for me as well. I was a hardcore Heat fan before LeBron, and was honestly totally indifferent to him. Didn't like him or dislike him. Once he came to the Heat and I started watching him more, I came to like him a lot as a player. He is currently my 2nd favorite of the Big 3... Bosh is my favorite and Wade is my third favorite. Wade will catapult back to first once he stops acting like such a little bitch (the incessant complaining and whining, playing for the call rather than trying to actually score, etc.)

[monkeypox]

of course you can. I'm a Laker fan and I hated Vlade Divacs pretty much the entire time he was here.

[Rowe]

I think that's the way to go. It's sad that the NBA has gone to be a superstar league where fans root for certain players instead of teams. There were people openly saying they'd follow Lebron no matter where he went. There were also people who said that they'd be Cavs fans for life, and jump ship faster than their idol could say where the proceeds are going to.

To be honest, sometimes I think fans would rather have their idol scoring 40 on a loss than going 6/24 on a win.

This is where I respect football/soccer fans the most. They root for an actual team/club.

It'd be interesting to see what happens to the Laker fanbase once Kobe retires.

Very true.

[monkeypox]

I think that's the way to go. It's sad that the NBA has gone to be a superstar league where fans root for certain players instead of teams. There were people openly saying they'd follow Lebron no matter where he went. There were also people who said that they'd be Cavs fans for life, and jump ship faster than their idol could say where the proceeds are going to.

To be honest, sometimes I think fans would rather have their idol scoring 40 on a loss than going 6/24 on a win.

This is where I respect football/soccer fans the most. They root for an actual team/club.

It'd be interesting to see what happens to the Laker fanbase once Kobe retires.

Eh, if there are Lakers I like that end up on other teams I'll usually root for them when they're not against the Lakers. Like Eddie Jones when he was moving around the league, I was rooting for him to finally step up to the next level. Right now I'm hoping Fisher does well as long as it isn't in helping the Thunder get past the Lakers. I think Shaq may be one of the few Lakers I loved on the team, but loathed when he left because of how he burned his bridges. But that's pretty much been his thing his whole career.

[Nash]

What is this? If you are a true Miami fan you'd love Lebron and the dedication he puts out there for your team.

[EnoughSaid]

Yeah like others have said. If you are a Heat fan, you respect and appreciate LeBron. A great player who played a huge part in winning the championship.

[DaSeba5]

Before LeBron came here, I didn't think anything of LeBron. I knew he was a great player and I watched him play, but that was about it. When he came here, everyone called him a douche for leaving Cleveland the way he did and everyone started to hate the guy like he did something terrible like molest children.

Since he's on the Heat, I feel the need to defend him more to people. He's not in my top 3 favorite players, but he's moving up the list. He's a good guy. I respect him for what he's done for us. He helped bring a 2nd title down here.

[EnoughSaid]

Lmao yeah I kind of see what you're saying. When Bron was on the Cavs and people talked shit, I didn't really care. But now he's in Miami, and when people are trashing him it's annoying and gets me a little ticked off.

[Nash]

for the most part I think so...I've supported the Heat since 04, and have had a generally negative opinion of LeBron for most of that time (peaked twice, when Wade missed out on the 08-09 MVP and when LeBron cost Wade another fMVP/the team another ring)

since he brought the team success this past season, my opinion is fairly neutral
Neutral? Really? So what you mean to say is that you'd be neutral if Lebron left Miami? Yeah, right..

:coleman:

[NumberSix]

he cost us one ring, and brought us another

his talent is indisputable and I'd be pissed if he left for sure, but just as he was the main reason Miami won this year, he's the main reason they came short last year
Yeah, but if Miami didn't get him, they'd be a 2nd round team both years.

1 out of 2 is better than 0 out of 2

[RRR3]

for the most part I think so...I've supported the Heat since 04, and have had a generally negative opinion of LeBron for most of that time (peaked twice, when Wade missed out on the 08-09 MVP and when LeBron cost Wade another fMVP/the team another ring)

since he brought the team success this past season, my opinion is fairly neutral
I call bs. I'm sorry if I seem paranoid but you seem like an undercover lakers/Kobe fan to me.

[LikeABosh]

Nobody would hate Lebron if he was on your team. I was neutral on Lebron before he came to Miami. I wasn't a big fan of his but I always went to the games when the Cavs were in town.

[BrickingStar]

lol you haven't been to ESPN NBA General then

ask Deuce, 9erempire, or griff

I'm fairly unbiased generally, though

Don't know who the first one is but the last 2 are horrible posters how does that even help?

[RRR3]

lol you haven't been to ESPN NBA General then

ask Deuce, 9erempire, or griff

I'm fairly unbiased generally, though
You claim your favorite player ever is shaq and then say asinine things like "shaq is nowhere close to Kobe all time" seems fishy to me :coleman::coleman:

[Deuce Bigalow]

lol context bro

9-10 isn't close to 6-7, considering the scope

I've logged thousands and thousands of posts on NBA General (fpliii-fpliii18, 3.lebenspfad, The Third Path have been my names) since 07, so if you really care that much, with a quick registration and post (I linked the board above), you can ask that board

my complete fan history:

started watching in 1992 (age 6), followed Shaq from when he came into the league until he was washed up; supported the Magic, Lakers, and now the Heat

from tri-state area NY (Westchester), I've spent most summers/winters with family in Parkland, FL, went to school in the CA Bay Area; saw Shaq a bunch live when I was young, really hated the Knicks because the first game I saw was Magic vs Knicks in NY his rookie season

Shaq is my favorite player from when I started watching live, DWade is my fave today (Payton, Robinson, Rodman round out the top 5); I don't have a particularly favorable/unfavorable view of either Kobe or LeBron, like both the same equally; I don't know who my number 1 GOAT is, but Jordan, Magic, Russell all have cases

I rank Kobe 6-7, Shaq 9-10, LeBron 13 (behind the consensus top 10, + West and Big O, ahead of everyone else), DWade top 20 (4th best SG behind Jordan, Kobe, West)
You're on fpliii18 now :oldlol:
Damn :oldlol:

Don't bother with rrr3, he's been a T-Mac fan for most of his bandwagon life. Lots of hate stored up in him.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I call bs. I'm sorry if I seem paranoid but you seem like an undercover lakers/Kobe fan to me.
an "undercover" laker/kobe fan?
wtf? :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

lol yeah

I thought i was getting banned from excessive flagging (courtesy of Bulls fans), but I finally got a response from mzinga (the company that runs the forums)

the person who responded to my e-mail wouldn't tell me why I was banned initially on fpliii (which I'm certain was from arguing with 'KJProcks', a noted troll), since I'm generally objective and never troll, but noted that all subsequent bans are due to periodic checks of my IP...basically, even though the initial ban was unjustified, every ban since is due to having multiple accounts, which is in violation of mzinga's terms & conditions

I'm now on a completely different SN ('The Third Path') to beat flagging bans (and manual moderator bans), and am using a proxy browser (Tor Browser, with modified .torrc file) to beat the automated banning

EDIT: lol a TMac fan? that's a novelty
lol nice.

kjp is one of the funniest clowns there. He had a thread during the '11 Finals titled "Heat in 4" :roll:
Too bad classic threads like that don't exist since the robust.

[pauk]

is it possible to be a wade fan and dislike lebron? yes but it is a rare sickness

is it possible to be a heat fan and dislike lebron? hell no, that would be like hating jordan for... giving you a championship?

[SilkkTheShocker]

A lot of Heat fans on ESPN board and some here weren't big Lebron fans before The Decision. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact Lebron got a lot more coverage when Wade had a ring and was close to him in talent/numbers. And I can see how they would feel that way. Personally, I used to not like Wade at all. But I have grown to like him over time. The man has gotten crazy underrated the last few seasons.

[SilkkTheShocker]

what's your name on ESPN?


I will pm it to you.

[Deuce Bigalow]

A lot of Heat fans on ESPN board and some here weren't big Lebron fans before The Decision. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact Lebron got a lot more coverage when Wade had a ring and was close to him in talent/numbers. And I can see how they would feel that way. Personally, I used to not like Wade at all. But I have grown to like him over time. The man has gotten crazy underrated the last few seasons.
How much better is Lebron than any other player in NBA History, Silk?

[SilkkTheShocker]

How much better is Lebron than any other player in NBA History, Silk?


Seems like answering that question would derail the OPs thread. But willing to answer that in another thread if you want.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Seems like answering that question would derail the OPs thread. But willing to answer that in another thread if you want.
I think he is far and away ahead of everyone. I mean just look at him in the Finals. He was so kind to let Tony Parker outscore him in '07. He even let Chris Bosh and Jason Terry score more than him in '11. That is what I call dominance my friend. And in the clutch? Oh my, he is one of a kind. 3.0 ppg average in '11 with 0 made FG in clutch time which is under 5 minutes and the score within 5 points. I don't think any other superstar has performed like that.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I think he is far and away ahead of everyone. I mean just look at him in the Finals. He was so kind to let Tony Parker outscore him in '07. He even let Chris Bosh and Jason Terry score more than him in '11. That is what I call dominance my friend.

Is there im supposed to take the bait and get in a Kobe/Lebron debate?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Is there im supposed to take the bait and get in a Kobe/Lebron debate?
Dude. 3.0 PPG 4th Quarter '11 Finals. Respect :bowdown:

[SilkkTheShocker]

never got your PM bro

I've only been here a few months, so it'd be nice to know some people from the other board who post here


Yea, accidently sent it to your email instead. My bad.

[DatAsh]

Well, it's possible to be a Lakers fan and HATE every player but Kobe.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

It's not just possible, I'd say it's verging on being the norm.

[StateOfMind12]

Yea, accidently sent it to your email instead. My bad.
I PMd you a while ago and you never got back to me. :confusedshrug:


Well, it's possible to be a Lakers fan and HATE every player but Kobe.
:lol

[fpliii]

Yea, accidently sent it to your email instead. My bad.

oh okay I know who you are; you posted more earlier on in my time I think, haven't seen you on in a while

are you also mca btw?

[Deuce Bigalow]

oh okay I know who you are; you posted more earlier on in my time I think, haven't seen you on in a while

are you also mca btw?
Who is he?

[SilkkTheShocker]

I PMd you a while ago and you never got back to me. :confusedshrug:


:lol


My bad man. To answer your question, no. I just post here now.

[SilkkTheShocker]

oh okay I know who you are; you posted more earlier on in my time I think, haven't seen you on in a while

are you also mca btw?


No. I just posted on one name over there. Still remember Madness, ErieVern, Chancie, etc.

[SilkkTheShocker]

oh okay :cheers:

who else posts on here from ESPN?

Griffmoney and StateOfMind.

[Deuce Bigalow]

yeah I know griff...who is StateOfMind on ESPN?
Would like to know that too

[HiphopRelated]

When LeBron first came to Miami I still didn't like him. I will never be a LeBron homer, but he is a great player and I respect him for helping Miami win. Wade however is still the Miami Heat GOAT and LeBron will never suprass him in Miami.
pretty much, Lebron will never be my favorite player on the Heat as long as Wade puts on that uniform.

Doesn't mean I don't think Lebron is the better player, but I damn sure felt some disgust when Wade was on the path to another FMVP and dude disappeared in the Finals.

[SilkkTheShocker]

yeah I know griff...who is StateOfMind on ESPN?


Not really sure. I just know he has mentioned posting there. Deuce posted over there also?

[StateOfMind12]

yeah I know griff...who is StateOfMind on ESPN?
I don't even remember quite honestly because I haven't posted there since 2008 or 2009. I think I started viewing it in 2006 but then I eventually found insidehoops in like 2007-2008 and I posted here full time shortly. I think it had something to do with Olajuwon cause I was and still a huge fan of him.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

I'm a big fan of Wade...but I dont care for Lebron.
So, yes, its possible.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I feel its a lot easier to have actual discussions about basketball here. The ESPN boards just kept getting worse and worse. Plus, you had to really watch what you say on ESPN. Making an OT thread alone, got you a 24 hour ban sometimes.

[StateOfMind12]

htownolajuwon maybe?
Maybe, lol at tmacfan0115. I hate Tmac if you can't tell so I have no clue why I would make a username off of him.

I'm not a Rockets fan either. I just said I was a fan of Hakeem. I couldn't careless about the Rockets although I did like Yao when he was there.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I don't even remember quite honestly because I haven't posted there since 2008 or 2009. I think I started viewing it in 2006 but then I eventually found insidehoops in like 2007-2008 and I posted here full time shortly. I think it had something to do with Olajuwon cause I was and still a huge fan of him.
Was RocketsGreatness your first account?

[SilkkTheShocker]

htownolajuwon maybe? or tmacfan0115? the only other Rockets fan I can think of is denali, but it's rare to see a girl on these boards

ISH is better than NBA General by a large margin, from what I've seen so far




the new boards are especially bad...I've been getting 24 hour bans almost daily, and sometimes permabans multiple times a day

mzinga is trash...the only notable older regs left who post frequently are airmen, gmen, tdk, big mikes, abevigoda, chifan, and vcsgrizz (ocassionally vern pops in)

even madness left (albeit after the Finals, so he might come back soonish)

Mzinga was awful. Couldn't stand the s.hit. vcsgrizzfan was a great poster.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Was RocketsGreatness your first account?

Deuce, what name did you post under if you don't mind me asking?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Maybe, lol at tmacfan0115. I hate Tmac if you can't tell so I have no clue why I would make a username off of him.

I'm not a Rockets fan either. I just said I was a fan of Hakeem. I couldn't careless about the Rockets although I did like Yao when he was there.

The Tmacfan I remember always brought up the Yao>>>Dwight threads lol.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Deuce, what name did you post under if you don't mind me asking?
pavlenko17

[StateOfMind12]

vcsgrizzfan was a great poster.
No he was not. I actually remember listening and believing to a lot of what he had to say and looking back upon it, he is full of garbage.

I make my own opinions now and form based off of what I see and discuss it with knowledgeable posters on here like ShaqAttack.

I would love to see him join this site to get trashed on by most posters.

[SilkkTheShocker]

pavlenko17


Sounds familiar. Did we ever debate on ESPN or were you a new memeber there? Haven't posted there in about 2 years.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Sounds familiar. Did we ever debate on ESPN or were you a new memeber there? Haven't posted there in about 2 years.
No, I posted there in '11.

[SilkkTheShocker]

No he was not. I actually remember listening and believing to a lot of what he had to say and looking back upon it, he is full of garbage.

I make my own opinions now and form based off of what I see and discuss it with knowledgeable posters on here like ShaqAttack.

I would love to see him join this site to get trashed on by most posters.


The best was when he would lose his temper. Dude would go absolutely apes.hit and would call you names in a debate.

[StateOfMind12]

The best was when he would lose his temper. Dude would go absolutely apes.hit and would call you names in a debate.
:oldlol: So why would you call him a good poster? The best and my favorite poster there based on what I could remember was Bizz_Chief. I actually think he started posting on ISH for a while but he never came back.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Madness might have been the best poster I have ever seen at getting people visibly angry over the internet. ErieVern was also good at it but he quit posting regularly a long time ago I believe.

[SilkkTheShocker]

:oldlol: So why would you call him a good poster? The best and my favorite poster there based on what I could remember was Bizz_Chief. I actually think he started posting on ISH for a while but he never came back.


More for his analysis on Tim Duncan than anything. He was way too high on Bill Russell though. 90% of ESPN was just trolls. No one ever posted stats or took anything into context over there. I just give him credit for doing that more often than most.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I think he posts on the alt 'constitutionnomore' now (though he repeatedly claims they're not the same guy)

spot on with regards to madness though...we got along decently well, but he got under my skin a few times, and knew exactly how to bother each poster

I think he single-handedly scared 90% of the regs off the site...he'd be insane on this board


We surprisingly got along well also. Chancie, Denali, and Bizz were also good. Couldn't stand Gmen at all. Im not even sure he actually watched basketball. Didn't care for Airmen.

[Deuce Bigalow]

lol

big_mikes1 actually comes back to the board (he's mostly an NFL general poster now) and has ripped into him like 10 or so times, completely destroying him, and leaves right after




kjp got literally 25 or more of us banned in that one poll thread 'Jordan's 69 or Kobe's 81', pretty epic stuff
lol at the big mikes poll thread

and

the 81 vs 69 thread was great trolling

[SilkkTheShocker]

big_mikes was underrated at getting people worked up. Does Artman still post there? That dude had to have had some serious mental problems.

[Deuce Bigalow]

big_mikes was underrated at getting people worked up. Does Artman still post there? That dude had to have had some serious mental problems.
mental problems? This coming from a poster who thinks Lebron is GOAT?

[SilkkTheShocker]

yeah, forgot about him when I listed the other regs...he still stans Dwight hard

he lied about having to paint a casino in OKC that would force him to miss the playoffs, said the trip was cancelled when Orlando stole game 1, then got embarrassed when they lost (I believe) 4 straight

:oldlol:

I still remember him always talking about his paintings and crap.

[SilkkTheShocker]

his real life identity was also outed about a year back; dorian (former Suns fan, now a Bulls/Rose homer) and madness have also had their names posted on the boards recently


Dorian made a thread about how Lamar Odom was a hall of famer once :oldlol: Epic trolling thread. I remember he was a big Shaq fan. Must have switched to the Bulls once he retired.

[mehyaM24]

I rank Kobe 6-7, Shaq 9-10, LeBron 13 (behind the consensus top 10, + West and Big O, ahead of everyone else), DWade top 20 (4th best SG behind Jordan, Kobe, West)

no,just no...

....shaq was voted a top 50 player at 24,before kobe set foot on an nba court.... 2000-02 lakers= 25-7 without kobe 00-02= lakers were 13-13 without shaq. matter of fact, shaq missed the first 12 games in 02-03 as well....lakers went 3-9 without shaq in that span as the 3-time defending champs. kobe couldnt win a round in 3 PRIME yrs after shaq...05,06,anmd 07. then lakers got GASOL FOR KWAME and lakers became relevant again

....kobe is not even close to shaq

[RRR3]

Shaqattack needs to educate dis foo' :yaohappy:

[BrickingStar]

small sample sizes there

better peak != greater player, you have to factor in longevity

top 5 peaks in the history of the game in no particular order:

Jordan (injury through first threepeat)
threepeat Shaq
back2back2back MVP Bird
Bucks Kareem
Sixers Wilt

current LeBron might crack that list looking back in a few years as well, but you can't deny Kobe's longevity

he hasn't had many outlier years (which explains his lack of MVP hardware), but he's been right there year after year...his defensive height in the early 00s wasn't as impactful as LeBron's current defense due to lack of versatility, but he could shut his man down easily on the perimeter (though his defense is overrated now, he takes too many games off, perhaps to conserve energy for the other end)

he also did some real damage in 09 and 10 (he faced top 10 defenses in all four rounds at least one year, and possibly the other); factor in his 08 run, and he was basically second threepeat Jordan in the modern game

some of the same lines are overstated (81 points for instance, as outscoring Dallas through 3 was larger; the 05-06 season wasn't as outstanding as you'd think), but Kobe's done damage in his career

the lowest you can put him is 8, and he's definitively ahead of Shaq (btw if you take the whole run into account, he arguably did more in 01 than Shaq...he dominated one of the top defenses we've seen against the Spurs in the WCF)

where do you get the idea the consensus top 10 has shaq at 9-10 or even shaq behind kobe and kobe at 6or7 lol How cheap the the weed there? Now I know why you use Duece as a reference to you behing a heat supporter both of you have retarded to 10's

[Brickz187]

Anyone that is a real Heat fan regardless of how they felt about Lebron before should be a fan of Lebron now. As much as I disliked Lebron before, he has brought us another championship and is our best player. No need to not like him, Lebron is the Miami Heat now.

[The-Legend-24]

There's no such thing as a Heat fan. Nothing but bandwagons.

[RRR3]

There's no such thing as a Heat fan. Nothing but bandwagons.
All you care about is Kobe. Can't exactly talk :coleman:

[mehyaM24]

small sample sizes there

better peak != greater player, you have to factor in longevity

top 5 peaks in the history of the game in no particular order:

Jordan (injury through first threepeat)
threepeat Shaq
back2back2back MVP Bird
Bucks Kareem
Sixers Wilt

current LeBron might crack that list looking back in a few years as well, but you can't deny Kobe's longevity

he hasn't had many outlier years (which explains his lack of MVP hardware), but he's been right there year after year...his defensive height in the early 00s wasn't as impactful as LeBron's current defense due to lack of versatility, but he could shut his man down easily on the perimeter (though his defense is overrated now, he takes too many games off, perhaps to conserve energy for the other end)

he also did some real damage in 09 and 10 (he faced top 10 defenses in all four rounds at least one year, and possibly the other); factor in his 08 run, and he was basically second threepeat Jordan in the modern game

some of the same lines are overstated (81 points for instance, as outscoring Dallas through 3 was larger; the 05-06 season wasn't as outstanding as you'd think), but Kobe's done damage in his career

the lowest you can put him is 8, and he's definitively ahead of Shaq (btw if you take the whole run into account, he arguably did more in 01 than Shaq...he dominated one of the top defenses we've seen against the Spurs in the WCF)

shaq is at worst top 8...definitely above kobe....and longevity? shaq played 18 seasons. lmao...do you remember what he did vs detroit(out of his prime in miami) in the conference finals?....shaq destroyed them...avery johnson has played playoff series vs shaq,now he was coaching vs shaq in the finals....he knew who to worry about....and wade made them pay the price

to get to the finals shaq shot 12-14 in game 6 vs detroit....

wade was 6-15...

how about in the regular season? shaq gets injured in the teams second game and misses over a month. november 3rd injured...december 11th returned. before december 11th the heat were on a 4 game losing streak without shaq....when he came back it started a 4 game winning streak

are you beginning to understand?

[RRR3]

consensus top 10 in no particular order is:

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant
Wilt Chamberlain
Tim Duncan
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Bill Russell

how about you respond to me by specifically articulating your claims, and providing objective, relevant evidence? ad hominem insults aren't going to win you a debate, especially one you yourself initiated

Shaq's my favorite player all-time, but Kobe's done more in his career...that's indisputable; the only way you can slot Shaq ahead of Kobe is if you weight greatness at his peak far more than most NBA fans



have I said enough to satisfy your query in this thread? I'm generally unbiased but I've stanned Wade pretty hard so far in my time on this board
Shaq played at an elite level for just as long as Kobe foh apostle

[mehyaM24]

:facepalm

get this anecdotal ish out of here and bring forth some relevant, complete support for your claim bro

just facts.......ive never seen a 7 footer at that mass do a crossover....except shaq....yep,shaq is in a class by himself.

best record in playoff history--01
closest to unanimous mvp in history---1 vote away in 00
3 straight finals mvps--only jordan has done it
reg.season mvp,allstar mvp,finals mvp and scoring champ in 2000 alone

shaq>>>>>kobe and wade.

[stallionaire]

I love LeBron James. I hate Dwyane Wade.

[RRR3]

perhaps, but his hardware doesn't match his play

as lame as it is, good fortune will move you higher on the GOAT list...if you're in the right place at the right time, that could boost your legacy/stature

that's why I have two separate lists for best prime play (the quoted is just top 5 peaks) and overall greatness as commonly perceived
Who cares what the majority thinks? Don't base your criteria off that majority of humans are idiots hell I might even be one in the grand scheme of things but I recognize humanity's folly :coleman:

[SilkkTheShocker]

There's no such thing as a Heat fan. Nothing but bandwagons.


There are some real Heat fans on here. But for the most part, its definitely Lebron fans.

[mehyaM24]

Who cares what the majority thinks? Don't base your criteria off that majority of humans are idiots hell I might even be one in the grand scheme of things but I recognize humanity's folly :coleman:

i dont get how any rational fan...let alone a shaq "stan" :lol ....can put kobe ahead of him all-time. he literally has no case.

worse stats, peak/prime, and hardware. the only thing kobe has on shaq is longevity, but he's been on the decline for a while now. we all know he is kobes master because kobe was nothing before gasol. in 3 yrs without shaq or gasol, la won 0 playoff series. on the LAKERS....in his prime....4-1 without kobe in 2010....gasol had historic numbers.

[RRR3]

I'm not speaking about the majority per se. A majority can define the criteria, and you can live within it.

Any other top 10 list that looks different could constitute 'best players', 'best peaks', 'best primes', 'most clutch', 'best statistical outputs', etc., but if you want to assemble a GOAT list, you have to live by what the sport defines as greatness.

What are your GOAT and 'best players' lists? I'm sure they're not exactly the same. There'll be more overlap, but most groupings of the latter flavor will be distinctly different, and might feature guys like David Robinson and LeBron (already).
Don't really have a list anymore just my own opinions which are probably wrong a lot of the time but I'll argue me anyways :P

[mehyaM24]

can you not form a logical argument? I'm still waiting for specific, effective retorts to anything I've said...

the burden of proof is on you...

not like you've said anything i haven't already heard....kobe has no case over shaq except longevity.

[mehyaM24]

:hammerhead:

posters like you are the same reason I left ESPN...

I'll tell you what, reread my posts in this thread again for comprehension, it seems a few things have went over your head

after you've done that, click my name to the left of this post, and from the drop down menu, select 'Find more Posts by fpliii' to see my thoughts on Kobe/Shaq from the other threads in which I've posted...after you've done that, get back to me

you've done little more right now than to expose yourself as a biased troll with some preconceived beliefs from which you will not waver, and you're going to post the same brand of garbage over and over without relenting

I tried multiple times in this thread to engage you in serious conversation, but it looks like you're just trying to waste my time

listen. kobe has no ARGUMENT over shaq all-time....that is what we're talking about here. i dont give a damn about your post history or the separate lists you have. i'm no troll,just stating facts. deal with it.

again, are you aware that shaq was an allstar every year before kobe?....a scoring champ before kobe....and also voted as one of the 50 greatest players in nba history before becoming a teammate of kobe?....not to mention drafted #1 overall.....and rookie of the year....and he started in the allstar game as a rookie. in other words,shaq has always been a legend...always,and those are his first 4 yrs. kobe couldnt win a playoff series in 3 prime yrs without shaq or gasol....facts are facts

kobe is great, a top 15-20 player if i'm feeling good that day...and that means a real mother****ing lot coming from a genius such as myself

[mehyaM24]

*sigh: again, no specific evidence or any semblance of a reasonable rebuttal

it's also not in your best interests to close out such a post calling yourself a 'genius'...reread your posts bro

nah, mehyaM24(shaqpopcorn34 on Youtube) is a genius. you must not be aware of my legendary status on here...

i'll reiterate: the facts are on my side. you have yet to refute them. here again, the burden of proof is on you....

[Legends66NBA7]

nah, mehyaM24(shaqpopcorn34 on Youtube)

I was going to ask you a while back that if you were shaqpopcorn34 too, because I realized it was the same words I've seen on YouTube from him.

Why mehyaM24 ? Is that in tribute to mayhem8z on/was YouTube ?

[Soundwave]

Maybe there are, but honestly get the f*ck over yourself if you're in this boat. There are about 25+ other fanbases in this league that would kill to have a player as good as LeBron.

It's not like he committed some illegal act in coming to Miami anyway, he chose Miami as an unrestricted free agent, which is his right to do.

If anything as a Heat fan/Miami citizen, you should be flattered that he chose your organization/city over every other option.

[#number6ix#]

Its possible dumb but possible