Let's talk about Wilt Chamberlain unbiasedly

[SyRyanYang]

Jlauber please. Don't post an essay here.
Let's talk about him as rational fans, who never watched 60's or 70's. Make reasonable assumption and deduction based on limited footage of his.
Let me start with some guesswork of what he could possibly do in the era.

I'd say he will be a rich man's Shaq. From what I see, he's as athletic as rookie Shaq (which IMO is Shaq' athletic peak). Plus being taller, larger wingspan, and most importantly- defensive mindset. I could see him being DPOY candidate for most of his career and end up winning 5+ of them. And his stats within a span of 10 years of his prime will be something like : 25-30pts/16-20rebs/5blks/4-5asts/55-60fg%
If everything turns out perfectly, he could be the GOAT on top of micheal.

[Zedja]

He'd be Gasol on steriods.

[SyRyanYang]

He'd be Gasol on steriods.
What about the "rational" part?:coleman:

[LikeABosh]

He was a player ahead of his times. Sure he wouldn't drop 50 per game in today's NBA or in the 80's-90's but he was a freak and a very skilled player. I'd say he puts up something like 26 per game, 15 rebounds, 4 blocks, 3 assists pn 55% shooting. He's definitely top 5 all time IMO. It's Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Wilt. However you want to order them

[jongib369]

My personal favorite player. IMO, with the competition at the center spot today...If given the touches he could average 35 to 40 a game

I made a post earlier about him...Check out the Offense, With no hand checking and 2 centers that could only give him any real challenge today I dont think its out of the realm of possibility.

35-40 PPG 14-18 RPG (If 6'7 Love can, so can wilt) Depending on his role and what the team wants him to do...5 to 7 Assists...Remember, it was only counted as an assist if the player shot the ball after the pass taking NO steps. 5 to 6 blocks per game. If Mcgee Can get 2.4 playing 27 Minutes per game, what would someone whose more athletic with better timing, a better mind and longer body do?

" What do you guys think of the highlights?


Defense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEGabY6DMMw


Greatest Offensive Force

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak


Wilt VS Kareem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j6Wvu3fKOA


Wilt VS Shaq Comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZaAzO6fwUE


More athletic than Shaq, griffin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qsHB1IJvCg


Dunks etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH7OjWsXFEo

Bulls VS lakers- Better passer than Walton?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuuMMu2z6Bs "

[jongib369]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/Rivalry/01%20Bill%20VS%20Stilt/billwilt2.jpg


http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/541926.jpg


http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/541901.jpg


:lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed:

haha

[fpliii]

Jlauber please. Don't post an essay here.
Let's talk about him as rational fans, who never watched 60's or 70's. Make reasonable assumption and deduction based on limited footage of his.
Let me start with some guesswork of what he could possibly do in the era.

I'd say he will be a rich man's Shaq. From what I see, he's as athletic as rookie Shaq (which IMO is Shaq' athletic peak). Plus being taller, larger wingspan, and most importantly- defensive mindset. I could see him being DPOY candidate for most of his career and end up winning 5+ of them. And his stats within a span of 10 years of his prime will be something like : 25-30pts/16-20rebs/5blks/4-5asts/55-60fg%
If everything turns out perfectly, he could be the GOAT on top of micheal.

I'm interested in hearing what people have to say, but I think the rebound numbers are off. There's a hard upper-limit on rebounding nowadays based on the pace of the game. With fewer possessions his TRB% would go up, but there's no way in hell he (or anybody in league history) would approach 20rpg today. Something like 17 for his career is possible (with a high approaching 18-19), but I just don't see 20 unless he's on one of the faster teams.

If somebody can convince me otherwise please do so. This isn't a shot at Wilt in any way, but I can't see somebody snagging that many boards.

[SuperPippen]

Would still be the best center in the league if he played today. A perennial DPOY candidate, a great rebounder, and very good offensively.

I'd estimate a stat line of 27/14/4/55% for Wilt's peak if he played today.

[colts19]

I think he would be by far the best player in the league. Im old enough to have seen him play and I can tell you he was much more of an athlete than people can imagine. As far as numbers go I would put him at 34 pts 19 rbs, 6ast and 7 blocks. Top 5 all time easy probably Number 1.

[jongib369]

I'm interested in hearing what people have to say, but I think the rebound numbers are off. There's a hard upper-limit on rebounding nowadays based on the pace of the game. With fewer possessions his TRB% would go up, but there's no way in hell he (or anybody in league history) would approach 20rpg today. Something like 17 for his career is possible (with a high approaching 18-19), but I just don't see 20 unless he's on one of the faster teams.

If somebody can convince me otherwise please do so. This isn't a shot at Wilt in any way, but I can't see somebody snagging that many boards.
It all depends on type of team he's with like you said...if its a faster pace team that takes a decent amount of Mid Range and 3 point shots I can see it being close....Chamberlain is a TOP tier player, so any team would look slightly different with him on it to suit him. But I doubt it also

[fpliii]

It all depends on type of team he's with like you said...if its a faster pace team that takes a decent amount of Mid Range and 3 point shots I can see it being close....Chamberlain is a TOP tier player, so any team would look slightly different with him on it to suit him. But I doubt it also

well there are three phases of the game: offense, defense, and rebounding

I'm not speaking to his offense or defense, since there's a lot of analysis you need to do in order to reclassify his game

the rebounds are simpler to deal with...his rebounding percentages look like they'd translate to ~15rpg in the minutes he'd play today (high 30s), nearing that 20 number if he played huge minutes (I don't know if this is/isn't possible, but he wouldn't log near 48 minutes a game)

he'd probably be the rebounding champion nearly every year (and if he did play heavy minutes in his prime, these could get pretty high), but I really think there is a cap nowadays, though I haven't done enough research to place it

[jlauber]

well there are three phases of the game: offense, defense, and rebounding

I'm not speaking to his offense or defense, since there's a lot of analysis you need to do in order to reclassify his game

the rebounds are simpler to deal with...his rebounding percentages look like they'd translate to ~15rpg in the minutes he'd play today (high 30s), nearing that 20 number if he played huge minutes (I don't know if this is/isn't possible, but he wouldn't log near 48 minutes a game)

he'd probably be the rebounding champion nearly every year (and if he did play heavy minutes in his prime, these could get pretty high), but I really think there is a cap nowadays, though I haven't done enough research to place it

Kevin Love averaged 15.2 rpg in 35.8 mpg, in a league that averaged 41.3 rpg two years ago. No way Chamberlain "only" plays 40 mpg, either. So, I suspect 44 mpg for a peak Wilt. Now, think about this...in Wilt's LAST post-season, which covered 17 games (a pretty damed good sample and in which he outrebounded the league's #2 rebounder 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg in the WCF's), Chamberlain grabbed 22.5 rpg...in a league and post-season league that averaged 50.6 rpg. That translates to 18.3 rpg. Granted, he played 47 mpg in that post-season, BUT, that was FAR from a PEAK Wilt, too. In the '67 ECF's, Wilt had games of 28, 29 and even 30% of the total available rebounds (and he just murdered Russell on the glass in those games by margins of 32-15, 36-21, and 41-29.)

Also, Love and Bynum have each had 30 rebound games in the last couple of seasons, so it's not like 20 is an impossibility.

A PEAK Chamberlain, playing 44 mpg, and against the weaker centers that permeate today's NBA? Somewhere around 17-18...and once again, games of 30-35 would not be out of the realm of possibility.

And given the fact that Wilt just POUNDED virtually EVERY opposing center he faced in his career, he would probably do the same to the current crop iof inept clowns that call themselves centers.

[fpliii]

Kevin Love averaged 15.2 rpg in 35.8 mpg, in a league that averaged 41.3 rpg two years ago. No way Chamberlain "only" plays 40 mpg, either. So, I suspect 44 mpg for a peak Wilt. Now, think about this...in Wilt's LAST post-season, which covered 17 games (a pretty damed good sample and in which he outrebounded the league's #2 rebounder 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg in the WCF's), Chamberlain grabbed 22.5 rpg...in a league and post-season league that averaged 50.6 rpg. That translates to 18.3 rpg. Granted, he played 47 mpg in that post-season, BUT, that was FAR from a PEAK Wilt, too. In the '67 ECF's, Wilt had games of 28, 29 and even 30% of the total available rebounds (and he just murdered Russell on the glass in those games by margins of 32-15, 36-21, and 41-29.)

Also, Love and Bynum have each had 30 rebound games in the last couple of seasons, so it's not like 20 is an impossibility.

A PEAK Chamberlain, playing 44 mpg, and against the weaker centers that permeate today's NBA? Somewhere around 17-18...and once again, games of 30-35 would not be out of the realm of possibility.

And given the fact that Wilt just POUNDED virtually EVERY opposing center he faced in his career, he would probably do the same to the current crop iof inept clowns that call themselves centers.

I'm not speaking single-game totals, he might even have the same number of 30-30 games. I just think it's unlikely that coaches will put him in for more than 40 minutes a night in today's game, whether or not he's capable of logging those minutes.

I think 17 is probably where is career number would be, and in the playoffs (when he WOULD be playing his standard minutes) he'd be in the low 20s per night.

For the most part, it seems we're on the same page. :cheers:

[jlauber]

I'm not speaking single-game totals, he might even have the same number of 30-30 games. I just think it's unlikely that coaches will put him in for more than 40 minutes a night in today's game, whether or not he's capable of logging those minutes.

I think 17 is probably where is career number would be, and in the playoffs (when he WOULD be playing his standard minutes) he'd be in the low 20s per night.

For the most part, it seems we're on the same page. :cheers:

:cheers:

I wasn't really arguing with you so much, as some other's have pointed out that he would be a 14 rpg guy. How in the hell would Chamberlain, the greatest rebounder in NBA history, only average 14 rpg, in a league in which a 6-9 Kevin Love, playing less than 36 mpg, could average 15.2?

And that LAST post-season series was indicative of what a PRIME Chamberlain would probably carpet-bomb the NBA with. If a 36 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee, could average 22.5 rpg, (and outrebound the league's second best rebounder by over SIX per game), in a post-season in which the NBA averaged 50.6 rpg...well, just what would a PRIME Chamberlain have been capable of? Keep in mind that Chamberlain had a FIVE rpg margin over Russell in their 143 H2H games, too...including an amazing 23-4 margin in 35+ H2H games. And, I have often wondered how many "available" rebounds were to be had, when Wilt outrebounded Russell in one game, by a 55-19 margin?

In any case, and depending on what was needed, but a peak Wilt would probably be a 30+ ppg, 17-18 rpg, .550-.600 guy in today's NBA. As well as handing out 4 apg, and blocking 5-6 shots per game.

[fpliii]

:cheers:

I wasn't really arguing with you so much, as some other's have pointed out that he would be a 14 rpg guy. How in the hell would Chamberlain, the greatest rebounder in NBA history, only average 14 rpg, in a league in which a 6-9 Kevin Love, playing less than 36 mpg, could average 15.2?

And that LAST post-season series was indicative of what a PRIME Chamberlain would probably carpet-bomb the NBA with. If a 36 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee, could average 22.5 rpg, (and outrebound the league's second best rebounder by over SIX per game), in a post-season in which the NBA averaged 50.6 rpg...well, just what would a PRIME Chamberlain have been capable of? Keep in mind that Chamberlain had a FIVE rpg margin over Russell in their 143 H2H games, too...including an amazing 23-4 margin in 35+ H2H games. And, I have often wondered how many "available" rebounds were to be had, when Wilt outrebounded Russell in one game, by a 55-19 margin?

In any case, and depending on what was needed, but a peak Wilt would probably be a 30+ ppg, 17-18 rpg, .550-.600 guy in today's NBA. As well as handing out 4 apg, and blocking 5-6 shots per game.

http://delawarecolib.newspaperarchive.com/FlashViewer/Viewer.aspx?img=90938022&firstvisit=true&src=search&currentResult=0&currentPage=0

I can't make out the numbers, but that's the full box score for that game. If you can read the rebounding totals, let me know. We need to add team rebounds of course, which based on a few hundred game sample by the fine fellows at APBRmetrics is ~12.2% for each team. If you get me the totals for each team we can calculate.

As for Love, it's possible that he might come close to rebounding Wilt prior to this season. Before this year he was largely a rebounding specialist with no dominant rebounder (Pek) alongside him, so his numbers were surely inflated. Chamberlain actually noted himself that Rodman would likely outrebound him if they played together, since he was a rebounding specialist (great man defender on the perimeter and post as well, but couldn't anchor a dominant defense or help defend outside).

[Asukal]

It's hard to say what his stats would be like considering the 60s game is much different from today. But with his size and athleticism he would still be the game's best center if not the best player. His max stats could be at 30ppg 17rpg 5apg 3bpg at 60% shooting but who knows really. He will be hacked-a-wilt a lot for sure, coz it seems its his only weakness.

[jlauber]

It's hard to say what his stats would be like considering the 60s game is much different from today. But with his size and athleticism he would still be the game's best center if not the best player. His max stats could be at 30ppg 17rpg 5apg 3bpg at 60% shooting but who knows really. He will be hacked-a-wilt a lot for sure, coz it seems its his only weakness.

I almost fell out of my seat.

:applause:

:cheers:

[fpliii]

I almost fell out of my seat.

:applause:

:cheers:

did that link with the complete box score from the 55-rebound game work?

[DatAsh]

:cheers:

I wasn't really arguing with you so much, as some other's have pointed out that he would be a 14 rpg guy. How in the hell would Chamberlain, the greatest rebounder in NBA history, only average 14 rpg, in a league in which a 6-9 Kevin Love, playing less than 36 mpg, could average 15.2?

And that LAST post-season series was indicative of what a PRIME Chamberlain would probably carpet-bomb the NBA with. If a 36 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee, could average 22.5 rpg, (and outrebound the league's second best rebounder by over SIX per game), in a post-season in which the NBA averaged 50.6 rpg...well, just what would a PRIME Chamberlain have been capable of? Keep in mind that Chamberlain had a FIVE rpg margin over Russell in their 143 H2H games, too...including an amazing 23-4 margin in 35+ H2H games. And, I have often wondered how many "available" rebounds were to be had, when Wilt outrebounded Russell in one game, by a 55-19 margin?

In any case, and depending on what was needed, but a peak Wilt would probably be a 30+ ppg, 17-18 rpg, .550-.600 guy in today's NBA. As well as handing out 4 apg, and blocking 5-6 shots per game.

Also depends on what Wilt were talking about. Wilt was a very different player over the course of his career based on what he was asked to do/be.

I think scoring Wilt would probably be something like 30-35/16-18/3 on 50-55%. Defensive/team player Wilt(the best Wilt IMO) would probably be 18-22/16-18/6-9 on 62-66% and DPOY pretty much every year.

[fpliii]

Also depends on what Wilt were talking about. Wilt was a very different player over the course of his career based on what he was asked to do/be.

I think scoring Wilt would probably be something like 30-35/16-18/3 on 50-55%. Defensive/team player Wilt(the best Wilt IMO) would probably be 18-22/16-18/6-9 on 62-66% and DPOY pretty much every year.

I've seen some of your posts on here recently (very solid). From my understanding you were around to see a lot of these guys live, correct? I wanted to poll a lot of the guys on this board who were able to watch the league in the 60s (and possibly earlier, in some cases) and put together some lists (Finals MVPs and All-Defensive teams from 1967-68 and earlier are my first priorities). Let me know if you're interested in participating.

[Asukal]

I almost fell out of my seat.

:applause:

:cheers:

I told you a dozen times, I respect Wilt's legacy. :cheers:

I don't like your biased attitude towards him though. :no:

[jlauber]

did that link with the complete box score from the 55-rebound game work?

Yeah, but it would have been interesting to see the entire box score, and to compare ALL of the rebounds in that game. Given the fact that Wilt and Russell routinely led their teams in rebounding, and by large margins, I suspect that there was probably no more than say 140 total rebounds (with Wilt and Russell grabbing 74 of them), which would have given Chamberlain approximately 40% of the total available. Just a monster rebounding game!

[DatAsh]

I've seen some of your posts on here recently (very solid). From my understanding you were around to see a lot of these guys live, correct? I wanted to poll a lot of the guys on this board who were able to watch the league in the 60s (and possibly earlier, in some cases) and put together some lists (Finals MVPs and All-Defensive teams from 1967-68 and earlier are my first priorities). Let me know if you're interested in participating.

My posts probably seem kinda confusing lol. There's actually two people posting on this account. I'm 22, and my earliest basketball memories are from like 94-95. My dad's 57, and he's the person you quoted, but he's gone to bed already. I know my dad saw a lot of Wilt games and I think quite a few Russell games. I'm home for the weekend, so I'll talk to him in the morning(he's asleep already lol), but I'm sure he'd love that.

I'm just 22, but I feel like I know a lot about that era just because it's my Dad's favorite era and were both huge basketball fans and talk about it a lot. I'm really glad we found this site.:cheers: It's fun talking about this kind of stuff.

[SyRyanYang]

It's hard to say what his stats would be like considering the 60s game is much different from today. But with his size and athleticism he would still be the game's best center if not the best player. His max stats could be at 30ppg 17rpg 5apg 3bpg at 60% shooting but who knows really. He will be hacked-a-wilt a lot for sure, coz it seems its his only weakness.
It doesn't matter how 60' games were played since he will be trained by experts from today.

[SyRyanYang]

My posts probably seem kinda confusing lol. There's actually two people posting on this account. I'm 22, and my earliest basketball memories are from like 94-95. My dad's 57, and he's the person you quoted, but he's gone to bed already. I know my dad saw a lot of Wilt games and I think quite a few Russell games. I'm home for the weekend, so I'll talk to him in the morning(he's asleep already lol), but I'm sure he'd love that.

I'm just 22, but I feel like I know a lot about that era just because it's my Dad's favorite era and were both huge basketball fans and talk about it a lot. I'm really glad we found this site.:cheers: It's fun talking about this kind of stuff.
How I wish my dad loved basketball:(

[fpliii]

Yeah, but it would have been interesting to see the entire box score, and to compare ALL of the rebounds in that game. Given the fact that Wilt and Russell routinely led their teams in rebounding, and by large margins, I suspect that there was probably no more than say 140 total rebounds (with Wilt and Russell grabbing 74 of them), which would have given Chamberlain approximately 40% of the total available. Just a monster rebounding game!

that link has the entire box score (aside from team rebounds, which weren't recorded back then)

it appears Philly grabbed 90, Boston 59, for 149 total

assuming team rebounds (which weren't tracked prior to 1969) were at that 12.2% figure, Philly had 101, Boston 66, for a total of 167

Wilt had 55, which is 32.9% of all available rebounds in the game (using those team rebound numbers)



My posts probably seem kinda confusing lol. There's actually two people posting on this account. I'm 22, and my earliest basketball memories are from like 94-95. My dad's 57, and he's the person you quoted, but he's gone to bed already. I know my dad saw a lot of Wilt games and I think quite a few Russell games. I'm home for the weekend, so I'll talk to him in the morning(he's asleep already lol), but I'm sure he'd love that.

I'm just 22, but I feel like I know a lot about that era just because it's my Dad's favorite era and were both huge basketball fans and talk about it a lot. I'm really glad we found this site.:cheers: It's fun talking about this kind of stuff.

that would be great! be sure to let him know, and I'll be sure to see who else I can recruit

jlauber - I forget when you started watching, but I think you caught the tail end of the 60s (or did you start watching in the early 70s)? Would you like to participate? Either way, who else do you think would be interested in such a project?

[jlauber]

that link has the entire box score (aside from team rebounds, which weren't recorded back then)

it appears Philly grabbed 90, Boston 59, for 149 total

assuming team rebounds (which weren't tracked prior to 1969) were at that 12.2% figure, Philly had 101, Boston 66, for a total of 167

Wilt had 55, which is 32.9% of all available rebounds in the game (using those team rebound numbers)

Actually that is the exact opposite. Team rebounds WERE recorded prior to the 68-69 season (obviously 67-68 being the last season.) That's why I always get a kick out of the uneducated posters (and not you by any means) posting that TEAMS were getting 71 rpg in the early 60's. The fact was, the highest TEAMs were around 66 (and that was rare.)

So, that 149 makes me believe that it was likely around 130-135 that were AVAILABLE, or a staggering 40+% of them.

[jlauber]

that link has the entire box score (aside from team rebounds, which weren't recorded back then)

it appears Philly grabbed 90, Boston 59, for 149 total

assuming team rebounds (which weren't tracked prior to 1969) were at that 12.2% figure, Philly had 101, Boston 66, for a total of 167

Wilt had 55, which is 32.9% of all available rebounds in the game (using those team rebound numbers)




that would be great! be sure to let him know, and I'll be sure to see who else I can recruit

jlauber - I forget when you started watching, but I think you caught the tail end of the 60s (or did you start watching in the early 70s)? Would you like to participate? Either way, who else do you think would be interested in such a project?

My first recollections were in the 63-64 season. Which, was somewhat unfair to Russell, since I didn't see much of the more offensive Russell for the rest of his career. Same with Baylor, who was injured in the 64-65 post-season, and was never the same physically again.

And, my answer would be, yes, of course.

[fpliii]

Actually that is the exact opposite. Team rebounds WERE recorded prior to the 68-69 season (obviously 67-68 being the last season.) That's why I always get a kick out of the uneducated posters (and not you by any means) posting that TEAMS were getting 71 rpg in the early 60's. The fact was, the highest TEAMs were around 66 (and that was rare.)

So, that 149 makes me believe that it was likely around 130-135 that were AVAILABLE, or a staggering 40+% of them.

wait, I don't follow...apologies for not being familiar with league policy

Philly was credited with 90, which is the sum of all of the rebound totals in that line (6+7+55+9+3+3+5+2), Boston is credited with 59 (9+1+19+2+6+4+7+1+10); were the team rebounds appended to players' totals, does this box score only have the sum total and not the team totals used for year-end league statistics, or were there none this game?


My first recollections were in the 63-64 season. Which, was somewhat unfair to Russell, since I didn't see much of the more offensive Russell for the rest of his career. Same with Baylor, who was injured in the 64-65 post-season, and was never the same physically again.

And, my answer would be, yes, of course.

great! who else do you think would be interested? I guess a good base group would be all guys who were around then...who on this board makes the cut?

we can get into specifics (whether to start a thread, do this over PM, format, etc.) after we have a list of potential voters

[LosBulls]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/Rivalry/01%20Bill%20VS%20Stilt/billwilt2.jpg


http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/541926.jpg


http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/541901.jpg


:lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed:

haha


Why are the pictures from back then so dark?? Did the fkn lights go out in that arena?

[DatAsh]

My first recollections were in the 63-64 season. Which, was somewhat unfair to Russell, since I didn't see much of the more offensive Russell for the rest of his career. Same with Baylor, who was injured in the 64-65 post-season, and was never the same physically again.

And, my answer would be, yes, of course.


How old are you?

[jlauber]

wait, I don't follow...apologies for not being familiar with league policy

Philly was credited with 90, which is the sum of all of the rebound totals in that line (6+7+55+9+3+3+5+2), Boston is credited with 59 (9+1+19+2+6+4+7+1+10); were the team rebounds appended to players' totals, does this box score only have the sum total and not the team totals used for year-end league statistics, or were there none this game?

Oh, if those are the player totals, then the 149 is correct. They used to add "team rebounds" down in the box score. But, here again, the league has not counted them in their team totals since 1968. So, when someone compares the league in rebounding totals from, say 1990, to those of say, 1965, it is an unfair comparision to 1965, since they were added to the team totals. You can confirm that, by adding up any team prior to 1969, and then looking at what they were given credit for in the team totals.

So, Chamberlain grabbed 55 of the available 149 rebounds, or 37% of them.

[jlauber]

How old are you?

Same age as your dad.

[fpliii]

Oh, if those are the player totals, then the 149 is correct. They used to add "team rebounds" down in the box score. But, here again, the league has not counted them in their team totals since 1968. So, when someone compares the league in rebounding totals from, say 1990, to those of say, 1965, it is an unfair comparision to 1965, since they were added to the team totals. You can confirm that, by adding up any team prior to 1969, and then looking at what they were given credit for in the team totals.

So, Chamberlain grabbed 55 of the available 149 rebounds, or 37% of them.

That means he was likely close to what, 75% + of defensive boards? Pretty intense stuff...

[jlauber]

That means he was likely close to what, 75% + of defensive boards? Pretty intense stuff...

Of course, the most remarkable aspect, though, was that he outrebounded the game's second greatest rebounder in that record-setting game, ... by 36 rebounds!

[DatAsh]

Same age as your dad.

Ok. I honestly have no idea what the exact year was that my dad started watching, but I know my grandpa was a big fan so I assume it was fairly early like it was with me.

[KOBE143]

Poor man's Javale Mcgee :confusedshrug:

[Pointguard]

I think his top year would be 34ppg with 19 rebounds, 3.5 assist, 4 blocks, 60%. 7 year peak of 31ppg, 17rebs, 4asst, 4 blocks, 57%.

[BoutPractice]

Well to start with he would be the undisputed best center in the league, with quite a reasonable gap between him and Howard. (And he would beat Howard decisively in their duels, Dwight already tends to have trouble against taller centers but he never had to face a prime Wilt, the closest was Yao).

With his physical profile, array of skills, and need to showcase his dominance, there would be no match for him in today's league.

He would put up the kind of ridiculous stats we haven't seen from the center position since Shaq (with better rebounding and more blocks, all around the stat line might look like say peak Kareem's).
He would get all sorts of individual records since a guy named Wilt Chamberlain wouldn't have been there to set them so unreachably high in the past.

He would have legions of worshippers and haters. Basketball fans would be obsessed with him, there would be tons of topics on boards like this about him (think about it, 40 years after he played with much less exposure it's already the case).
There would be a lot of nitpicking in the media. His free throw shooting would be ridiculed, he would be called a stat padder, a choker, etc.

He would be even more hated than LeBron because he wouldn't have any serious competition at his position, so he would be expected to dominate and win every single year, even with weak supporting casts. Having been drafted first overall, he would probably be on a terrible team with incompetent management like the Bobcats. He'd still take his team deep into the playoffs every year, maybe to a Finals or two. He would get coaches/teammates fired, failure after failure his relationship with the organization would sour.

Eventually he'd pull a "Decision" of his own, taking his talents to a glamorous location, most likely LA because they always get the big centers. He would be despised even more, but would finally win championships with the help of All-Star teammates.

Due to his charisma, he would be the most recognizable personality in the league since Shaq. His personal life would be examined, and he would probably be involved in some kind of scandal. (I can imagine him publicly sending a tweet by accident to one of those 20 000 women, for starters, but there might be something more major.)

So all in all, very much a Shaq-like start to his career, but I picture him having better longevity due to his superior athletic profile and ability to reinvent himself.

[SyRyanYang]

Well to start with he would be the undisputed best center in the league, with quite a reasonable gap between him and Howard. (And he would beat Howard decisively in their duels, Dwight already tends to have trouble against taller centers but he never had to face a prime Wilt, the closest was Yao).

With his physical profile, array of skills, and need to showcase his dominance, there would be no match for him in today's league.

He would put up the kind of ridiculous stats we haven't seen from the center position since Shaq (with better rebounding and more blocks, all around the stat line might look like say peak Kareem's).
He would get all sorts of individual records since a guy named Wilt Chamberlain wouldn't have been there to set them so unreachably high in the past.

He would have legions of worshippers and haters. Basketball fans would be obsessed with him, there would be tons of topics on boards like this about him (think about it, 40 years after he played with much less exposure it's already the case).
There would be a lot of nitpicking in the media. His free throw shooting would be ridiculed, he would be called a stat padder, a choker, etc.

He would be even more hated than LeBron because he wouldn't have any serious competition at his position, so he would be expected to dominate and win every single year, even with weak supporting casts. Having been drafted first overall, he would probably be on a terrible team with incompetent management like the Bobcats. He'd still take his team deep into the playoffs every year, maybe to a Finals or two. He would get coaches/teammates fired, failure after failure his relationship with the organization would sour.

Eventually he'd pull a "Decision" of his own, taking his talents to a glamorous location, most likely LA because they always get the big centers. He would be despised even more, but would finally win championships with the help of All-Star teammates.

Due to his charisma, he would be the most recognizable personality in the league since Shaq. His personal life would be examined, and he would probably be involved in some kind of scandal. (I can imagine him publicly sending a tweet by accident to one of those 20 000 women, for starters, but there might be something more major.)

So all in all, very much a Shaq-like start to his career, but I picture him having better longevity due to his superior athletic profile and ability to reinvent himself.
:applause: :applause: Great post.
As for his free throws, I don't think it'll be as bad as it was, for all these training specialists we have today

[Deuce Bigalow]

35-40 PPG 14-18 RPG .5 to 7 Assists...5 to 6 blocks per game.

I think his top year would be 34ppg with 19 rebounds, 3.5 assist, 4 blocks, 60%. 7 year peak of 31ppg, 17rebs, 4asst, 4 blocks, 57%.
Yeah, right

[SyRyanYang]

Yeah, right
Relax dude, jlauber's not here. Oh wait...

[fpliii]

Yeah, right

mzinga banned me again, with multiple proxies and a completely different name :facepalm

I'm done posting there, I think I'm gonna pick one day of the week to set aside a couple of hours to just troll that board hardcore

if I'm gonna get banned regardless of what I post, might as well make the most of it

[Deuce Bigalow]

mzinga banned me again, with multiple proxies and a completely different name :facepalm

I'm done posting there, I think I'm gonna pick one day of the week to set aside a couple of hours to just troll that board hardcore

if I'm gonna get banned regardless of what I post, might as well make the most of it
ESPN isn't a serious board anymore. I stopped posting there a while ago.

[fpliii]

ESPN isn't a serious board anymore. I stopped posting there a while ago.

true that, but there are a few people on there I like p*ssing off (Bulls fans)

time to watch the 100m prelims, peace out bro

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://i.imm.io/z3j1.jpeg

"Wilt would drop 70 points on these modern era centers"
- jlauber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01GWCMGEsUw&feature=player_detailpage#t=14s

[SyRyanYang]

http://i.imm.io/z3j1.jpeg

"Wilt would drop 70 points on these modern era centers"
- jlauber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01GWCMGEsUw&feature=player_detailpage#t=14s
He definitely could, for one game, or two, maybe three. He didn't mean average 70 right?

[senelcoolidge]

35 year old Wilt would be the best center in today's league. Even with 9 or 10 attempts per game, he would easily be the rebounding champ and defensive play of the year. He could still score at will if he needed to. He could be perhaps the top player in the league at age 35.

[Raz]

My posts probably seem kinda confusing lol. There's actually two people posting on this account. I'm 22, and my earliest basketball memories are from like 94-95. My dad's 57, and he's the person you quoted, but he's gone to bed already. I know my dad saw a lot of Wilt games and I think quite a few Russell games. I'm home for the weekend, so I'll talk to him in the morning(he's asleep already lol), but I'm sure he'd love that.

I'm just 22, but I feel like I know a lot about that era just because it's my Dad's favorite era and were both huge basketball fans and talk about it a lot. I'm really glad we found this site.:cheers: It's fun talking about this kind of stuff.

Nice story! I really hope my future kids love basketball, even if they're girls.

[jlauber]

He definitely could, for one game, or two, maybe three. He didn't mean average 70 right?

Someone who DID actually make that claim? Walt Frazier.

[millwad]

http://i.imm.io/z3j1.jpeg

"Wilt would drop 70 points on these modern era centers"
- jlauber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01GWCMGEsUw&feature=player_detailpage#t=14s

"Bill Russell would be like Ben Wallace in the modern era" - Jlauber

Jlauber claiming he saw games from '63 is pure nonsense, he was 6 years back then and he is the same guy who changed his mind regarding Wilt and his era just a few years ago, more than 40 years after the games were played, over youtube, quotes and boxscores.

[jlauber]

"Bill Russell would be like Ben Wallace in the modern era" - Jlauber

Jlauber claiming he saw games from '63 is pure nonsense, he was 6 years back then and he is the same guy who changed his mind regarding Wilt and his era just a few years ago, more than 40 years after the games were played, over youtube, quotes and boxscores.

You are not only a liar, but as dumb as a block of wood. 57 years old puts me at 9. Of course, this coming from the LIAR who claimed that he watched all of the Kareem-Hakeem H2H's, and that Hakeem never did guard Kareem in those many 40+ point games that Kareem routinely carpet-bombed him with (and on unfathomable efficiencies too.) Nor could you even recall Barklye cleaning Hakeem's clock on the glass just a few years ago.

What a complete idiot.

BTW, I will be posting a Hakeem-Wilt playoff comparison later. Of course, had Wilt been "lucky" enough to have been blown out in the first round of the playoffs, EIGHT times, instead of the ONCE that he was, his numbers would be considerably better. Instead, he carried his teams much further, and had to go up against the greatest defensive center in NBA history 49 times in the process.

As for FG%'s. This is really going to blown to shreds. Wilt DWARFED Hakeem's FG% against the LEAGUE post-season FG%'s. Here agin, had Wilt been fortunate enough to play in post-seasons that shot .492, instead of as low as .402, well, he would have been MILES ahead of Hakeem's adjusted FG%.

[jongib369]

You are not only a liar, but as dumb as a block of wood. 57 years old puts me at 9. Of course, this coming from the LIAR who claimed that he watched all of the Kareem-Hakeem H2H's, and that Hakeem never did guard Kareem in those many 40+ point games that Kareem routinely carpet-bombed him with (and on unfathomable efficiencies too.) Nor could you even recall Barklye cleaning Hakeem's clock on the glass just a few years ago.

What a complete idiot.

BTW, I will be posting a Hakeem-Wilt playoff comparison later. Of course, had Wilt been "lucky" enough to have been blown out in the first round of the playoffs, EIGHT times, instead of the ONCE that he was, his numbers would be considerably better. Instead, he carried his teams much further, and had to go up against the greatest defensive center in NBA history 49 times in the process.

As for FG%'s. This is really going to blown to shreds. Wilt DWARFED Hakeem's FG% against the LEAGUE post-season FG%'s. Here agin, had Wilt been fortunate enough to play in post-seasons that shot .492, instead of as low as .402, well, he would have been MILES ahead of Hakeem's adjusted FG%.
Hey jlauber you know I'm a big wilt fan...a few people have asked once they knew my age if you were my father...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mmCH_1cC75c/TpKtIvdM7AI/AAAAAAAAAgo/SBcGm7p5zY8/s1600/empire%2Bstrikes%2Bback.jpg


haha...anway's..I was wondering what adjusted fg% really means and if its fair?? Maybe I'm just not looking at it the right way, but isnt it not fair to change how well a person shot to what people averaged in a earlier or future time? I just personally wouldn't adjust Wilts % to lets says what they shot in 1948...What am I missing?

[jlauber]

Hey jlauber you know I'm a big wilt fan...a few people have asked once they knew my age if you were my father...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mmCH_1cC75c/TpKtIvdM7AI/AAAAAAAAAgo/SBcGm7p5zY8/s1600/empire%2Bstrikes%2Bback.jpg


haha...anway's..I was wondering what adjusted fg% really means and if its fair?? Maybe I'm just not looking at it the right way, but isnt it not fair to change how well a person shot to what people averaged in a earlier or future time? I just personally wouldn't adjust Wilts % to lets says what they shot in 1948...What am I missing?

I'll cover much of that, but you will often read about the "pace" of Wilt's era, BUT, those that use that against Chamberlain NEVER bring up LEAGUE AVERAGE FG% either (or as in what I will be posting later...POST-SEASON league average FG%.) For instance, Wilt shot .469 in his '60 playoffs. Doesn't sound very impressive does it? Until you factor in that the NBA post-season average was .402 that year. Now, compare that with Hakeem's '85 post-season FG% of .477...in a post-season NBA that shot .491 (and had an eFG% of .497...and eFG% will be important in these discussions, as well.)

Chamberlain was outshooting the post-season LEAGUE AVERAGES by huge margins. And had he been wiped out in the first round EIGHT TIMES, he would have had FG%'s of .629 in a league that shot .446 and .612 in a league that shot .424.

Same with scoring. For instance, in Wilt's 63-64 POST-SEASON, the NBA only averaged 105.8 ppg and on .420 shooting. How about Wilt in that entire post-season? 34.7 ppg on .543 shooting.

There are many examples of that, as well. Those that claim that Wilt "declined" in the post-season need to realize that overall scoring and FG%'s also dropped in those post-seasons. And, here again, had Wilt's teams been eliminated in the first round, and Chamberlain would have had SEVERAL post-season ppg averages OVER the league average.

I'll cover all of that extensively later...

[millwad]

You are not only a liar, but as dumb as a block of wood. 57 years old puts me at 9. Of course, this coming from the LIAR who claimed that he watched all of the Kareem-Hakeem H2H's, and that Hakeem never did guard Kareem in those many 40+ point games that Kareem routinely carpet-bombed him with (and on unfathomable efficiencies too.) Nor could you even recall Barklye cleaning Hakeem's clock on the glass just a few years ago.


Hey, dumbass, I mixed up your age, mixed up your current age which is 57 and the year 1957.

I have NEVER claimed I saw all the H2H's between Kareem and Olajuwon, again you're just lying to make it look better for you. You've checked out my previous posts plenty of times, go find the post were I claim that I saw all their head to heads. Do it. You're lying as usual..


And again you mention Barkley and rebounds, either you're retarded or you're just doing it time after time because you have so little to come with. We misunderstood each other and still you're spamming about it.




What a complete idiot.
BTW, I will be posting a Hakeem-Wilt playoff comparison later. Of course, had Wilt been "lucky" enough to have been blown out in the first round of the playoffs, EIGHT times, instead of the ONCE that he was, his numbers would be considerably better. Instead, he carried his teams much further, and had to go up against the greatest defensive center in NBA history 49 times in the process.


I can't believe how butthurt you really are, I mentioned the FACT that you didn't see the games you speak about so dearly because you had a completely different opinion about Wilt and his era just a few years ago. And we all know that you changed your mind over quotes, youtube-footage and boxscores so you're just a huge hypocrite when you "recall" certain events from where you were a little kid.

That is exactly why you always try to come up with a punchline back to people when they mention that you're a hypocrite. I mean, just the fact that you replied my message with dissing Hakeem only shows how mentally challenged and retarded you really are.




As for FG%'s. This is really going to blown to shreds. Wilt DWARFED Hakeem's FG% against the LEAGUE post-season FG%'s. Here agin, had Wilt been fortunate enough to play in post-seasons that shot .492, instead of as low as .402, well, he would have been MILES ahead of Hakeem's adjusted FG%.

Still not anything close to my first message about the fact that you didn't see the games you so dearly "recall", games you never saw and games you got to know about through quotes and youtube-footage.

And yeah, the league back then was less talented when it came to scoring and they played at a higher pace while talking alot of stupid shots.

Wilt's FG% was against shorter and less athletic players AND against worse defense. All those triple teams you talk about are non-existent in the footage we've seen Wilt in.

And again, Wilt dropped both in terms of FG% and in terms of scoring in the playoffs while playing way more minutes compared to Hakeem. I'd rather have a scorer in Hakeem than Wilt, especially considering the fact that Olajuwon averaged plenty of more points when he won compared to Wilt who only was a tied 2nd and fourth option when he won... :facepalm

[jlauber]

Hey, dumbass, I mixed up your age, mixed up your current age which is 57 and the year 1957.

I have NEVER claimed I saw all the H2H's between Kareem and Olajuwon, again you're just lying to make it look better for you. You've checked out my previous posts plenty of times, go find the post were I claim that I saw all their head to heads. Do it. You're lying as usual..


And again you mention Barkley and rebounds, either you're retarded or you're just doing it time after time because you have so little to come with. We misunderstood each other and still you're spamming about it.



I can't believe how butthurt you really are, I mentioned the FACT that you didn't see the games you speak about so dearly because you had a completely different opinion about Wilt and his era just a few years ago. And we all know that you changed your mind over quotes, youtube-footage and boxscores so you're just a huge hypocrite when you "recall" certain events from where you were a little kid.

That is exactly why you always try to come up with a punchline back to people when they mention that you're a hypocrite. I mean, just the fact that you replied my message with dissing Hakeem only shows how mentally challenged and retarded you really are.




Still not anything close to my first message about the fact that you didn't see the games you so dearly "recall", games you never saw and games you got to know about through quotes and youtube-footage.

And yeah, the league back then was less talented when it came to scoring and they played at a higher pace while talking alot of stupid shots.

Wilt's FG% was against shorter and less athletic players AND against worse defense. All those triple teams you talk about are non-existent in the footage we've seen Wilt in.

And again, Wilt dropped both in terms of FG% and in terms of scoring in the playoffs while playing way more minutes compared to Hakeem. I'd rather have a scorer in Hakeem than Wilt, especially considering the fact that Olajuwon averaged plenty of more points when he won compared to Wilt who only was a tied 2nd and fourth option when he won... :facepalm


YOU keep rehashing the same things that YOU know I have addressed here dozens of times. That is why I keep bringing up the same lies and mistruths that you have indeed claimed.

And I only bring up Hakeem, because you are constantly DISPARAGING Wilt's achievements. You accuse me of going after Hakeem, but in nearly EVERY Wilt topic, you pop in and do your best to diminish whatever is claimed. I

As for the rest of your nonsense, I will be addressing at least some of it later. (And your ridiculous take that Wilt was not doubled or tripled has been trashed with page-after-page of first hand accounts and magazine articles at that time...as well as FOOTAGE which shows Chamberlain being SWARMED.)

Please, do us both a favor and quit the futility.

[millwad]

YOU keep rehashing the same things that YOU know I have addressed here dozens of times. That is why I keep bringing up the same lies and mistruths that you have indeed claimed.

If I was supposed to put up every lie you've put it would be a Jlauber-esque essay. All from nonsense you made up about 20-30 blocked skyhooks by Chamberlain against Kareem, the list you found on yahoo and copy and pasted regarding Wilt's tall competitors. The same list who was full of errors which you only got to know after I made it clear for you, you're a hoax.



And I only bring up Hakeem, because you are constantly DISPARAGING Wilt's achievements. You accuse me of going after Hakeem, but in nearly EVERY Wilt topic, you pop in and do your best to diminish whatever is claimed. I


I didn't write about Wilt, I wrote about the fact that you're BS'ing about seeing games from where you were a kid and "recalling" details when you're the same person who didn't see them play, you changed your mind over youtube and quotes more than 40 years later the games were played and you claim you saw them.. :facepalm



As for the rest of your nonsense, I will be addressing at least some of it later. (And your ridiculous take that Wilt was not doubled or tripled has been trashed with page-after-page of first hand accounts and magazine articles at that time...as well as FOOTAGE which shows Chamberlain being SWARMED.)

Please, do us both a favor and quit the futility.

No, it has not been trashed, only by words but there are NONE footage that proves the nonsense you've put up regarding all those crazy double and triple teams.. :facepalm

NONE.

[jlauber]

Regarding Wilt's post-season play and his first round playoff series, here is a sample of what I will be detailing later on...


BTW, I will be posting some new info regarding his "decline" in the post-season, as well. It is amazing, but given the actual scoring and especially shooting percentages in the Wilt-era POST-SEASONS, he was consistently at or near his regular season numbers.

And, had he had the good "fortune" to have been eliminated in the first round of the playoffs, EIGHT times, as was the case with Hakeem, his first round numbers were often HIGHER. And, I have read an idiot post claiming that Hakeem outshot Wilt from the field in the post-season (by a .528 to .522 margin), BUT, I will be comparing their post-season LEAGUE AVERAGES, (and even including eFG%'s), which CLEARLY gives Chamberlain a HUGE edge.

As examples, in Wilt's fist eight post-seasons, and in his first round, he averaged

38.7 ppg

37.0 ppg

37.0 ppg

38.6 ppg and on .559 shooting (in a post-season NBA of 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting)

27.8 ppg (and then 30.1 ppg, on .555 shooting, and against Russell)

28.0 ppg

28.0 ppg (and a great example of FG% at .612 in a post-season at .424)

25.5 ppg (and on .584 shooting, while his opposing center, Bellamy was at 20.0 on .421 shooting.)

Even in his 11th season, and only four months removed from major knee surgery, Chamberlain put up a first round of 23.7 ppg., 20.3 rpg, and .549.

And, in his 71-72 post-season, he had a 14.5 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .629 first round series (and in an NBA post-season of .446.)

So while Chamberlain was shooting .522 in his post-season career, it came in post-seasons of between .402 to .455.) Meanwhile Hakeem's .528 came in post-seasons of as high as .492, and an efg% as high as .500. MANY in the .485+ range, as well.

And, keep in mind two more interesting points. One, in Wilt's second greatest scoring season (44.8 ppg on .528 shooting) his all-time worst roster kept him from playing in the post-season (which probably cost him another 2-3+ ppg in his post-seasob career average.) And two, he faced a starting HOF center in 105 of his 160 post-season games, including Russell in 49, Thurmond in 17, and a PRIME Kareem in 11.

[CavaliersFTW]

Jlauber please. Don't post an essay here.
Let's talk about him as rational fans, who never watched 60's or 70's. Make reasonable assumption and deduction based on limited footage of his.
Let me start with some guesswork of what he could possibly do in the era.

I'd say he will be a rich man's Shaq. From what I see, he's as athletic as rookie Shaq (which IMO is Shaq' athletic peak). Plus being taller, larger wingspan, and most importantly- defensive mindset. I could see him being DPOY candidate for most of his career and end up winning 5+ of them. And his stats within a span of 10 years of his prime will be something like : 25-30pts/16-20rebs/5blks/4-5asts/55-60fg%
If everything turns out perfectly, he could be the GOAT on top of micheal.
His stats will depend largely upon the team and coaching system he's on because Wilt was so easily capable of changing his game, also he's got the mentality of a record chaser so he'd "try" to over exert himself upon certain statistical areas that he wanted to raise the bar for. This adds a large element of unpredictability with what Wilt's stats would be. They'd probably mirror what happened in the 60's in the sense that they'd be all over the f*ckin place (from him changing his focus) especially if he kept getting traded or kept getting new coaches. But your observations of his size + athleticism are right on the money, he'd be a force in the league for sure

[CavaliersFTW]

Why are the pictures from back then so dark?? Did the fkn lights go out in that arena?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: I literally LOL'd at this

[SHAQisGOAT]

This guy could dominate in any era. If he only always had a strong mentally, plus not having Goliath syndrome.

Arguably the greatest athlete in the NBA ever also.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I just hate when old people or any poster that doesn't understand that era (like jlauber for example), they compare stats to other greats as if they played in the same time, like it's the same league. Like when oolalaa comparea Jerry West's stats to Kobe's. Ughh so frustrating. It's as if they are delusional. 1960s baskteball era is not the same as the modern era. But they believe it is :banghead:

[CavaliersFTW]

I just hate when old people or any poster that doesn't understand that era (like jlauber for example), they compare stats to other greats as if they played in the same time, like it's the same league. Like when oolalaa comparea Jerry West's stats to Kobe's. Ughh so frustrating. It's as if they are delusional. 1960s baskteball era is not the same as the modern era. But they believe it is :banghead:
I see you've now stolen my UP pic for your own posts :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I see you've now stolen my UP pic for your own posts :roll:
But I made it my own now, I added the I heart Wilt pin on there :lol

[CavaliersFTW]

This guy could dominate in any era. If he only always had a strong mentally, plus not having Goliath syndrome.

Arguably the greatest athlete in the NBA ever also.
His strong mentality was the problem, it was TOO strong, it wasn't weak you've got it backwards if you think that. When Wilt thought he was right or better than someone else there was no changing his mind and no fixing it. So if he didn't like a coach, the team was f*cked. He always wanted to win though, he didn't have the same problems that say - Kareem had (losing desire). His problems were more like the problems Shaq had (player/coach relations).

[CavaliersFTW]

But I made it my own now, I added the I heart Wilt pin on there :lol
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

btw CavsFTW, why do you love Wilt so much?

I understand jlauber loving him since he lived in that time, but you?

[CavaliersFTW]

btw CavsFTW, why do you love Wilt so much?

I understand jlauber loving him since he lived in that time, but you?
Cause he's really good? Why do you love Kobe so much? Isn't it kinda the same thing? :lol Tho I guess it's different cause Kobe still plays and is well... alive :lol while Wilt played decades ago but it's kinda like your very first time hearing all these tall tales about Wilt and seeing his gaudy stats hooks you (or it hooked me) then the ugly truth sets in that Wilt seems to turn into some comic book fantasy (especially to those who never watched him like myself) and he then becomes one of only two things in modern basketball fans minds:

*Paul Bunyon-esq/cartoonish/dismissed/hated

*Worshiped

And if you didn't see him play you were kinda S.O.L. as to figuring out how much of his tall tales are real or not or how good he actually was in order to try and justify your stance. A f*ckin roll of the dice where no side can win cause he's all imaginary. Wilt's legend was tempting to pursue and I wasn't satisfied with him being imaginary. so I hunted down a sh*t load of rare 50's NCAA and 60's and 70's NBA film to see what was up. Personally, I'm not disappointed, he looks legit to me. Now I'm also getting impressed by other athletes from that time that don't get much coverage today like Baylor or West or Russell etc. Reminds me of fossil hunting or some sh*t, lol. IMO it's fun discovering these old players that get no love anymore, some look legit with footage

[scandisk_]

I just hate when old people or any poster that doesn't understand that era (like jlauber for example), they compare stats to other greats as if they played in the same time, like it's the same league. Like when oolalaa comparea Jerry West's stats to Kobe's. Ughh so frustrating. It's as if they are delusional. 1960s baskteball era is not the same as the modern era. But they believe it is :banghead:

you serious bruh? :oldlol: That's like saying Kobe and co. would be total scrubs compared to the league 40 years from now.

[Deuce Bigalow]

you serious bruh? :oldlol: That's like saying Kobe and co. would be total scrubs compared to the league 40 years from now.
No it wouldn't.
And I didn't mean players like Wilt and West would be total scrubs.

[CavaliersFTW]

No it wouldn't.
And I didn't mean players like Wilt and West would be total scrubs.
How bout players you never heard of and never watched like Baylor and West's power forward Rudy LaRusso? Were completely forgettable guys like LaRusso just cannon fodder for the 5 or 6 players you can name off the top of your head that seemed to be good back then? That's what doesn't make logical sense.... when people think the 60's was top heavy with a few good players that could merely "play" today but wouldn't be "as good" because they think the rest of their competition and peers were sub-par talent or w/e...

IMO a lot of the 60's league (especially the big men) have skill and talent that would translate very well into today's game and be all-star worthy, and the players that were superstars back then look like they would still be superstars today, they've got "it" factor. I think that's universal, some players have such raw instinct and physical abilities that they just can't suddenly become outdated "poor man's _____" just because 10, 20, 30, 40 years passes and everybody forgets (or never even had a clue) about who they played against. The NBA has always had the best players in the world, so as much as people misunderstand stats due to pace and game style it's not like Wilt/West were playing scrubs in the 60's. Even the worst starting centers in the league in the 60's look like they'd be good centers today and maybe that's because the league was so small and big-man skill was so valued back then but that doesn't seem to be an opinion you'd readily agree with. But that is my opinion based on watching them not looking at stats.

[jlauber]

No it wouldn't.
And I didn't mean players like Wilt and West would be total scrubs.

Explain to me why Kareem shot horribly against Thurmond (in 43 career H2H's), and against an OLD Chamberlain (in 28 career H2H's), and yet couldn't miss against the likes of Hakeem and Ewing?

Or that a PRIME Kareem had seasons of .539, .529, .518, and even .513 (at age 27) in the 70's, and his WORST season in the 80's (excluding his last two at ages 40 and 41) were .564 (with career highs of .604 and .599)?

And how come Kareem was nowhere near as dominant against many of the SAME centers that a PRIME Chamberlain just murdered? Where was Kareem's 60+ point games, and 40+ ppg seasons? Keep in mind that he played FOUR seasons IN the Wilt-era, too.

Or that centers like McAdoo, Lanier, Gilmore, and especially Moses, gave him far more trouble than the other centers of the 80's?

Dr. J, Moses, Dantley, Gilmore, and many others...were at least as dominant in the 80's, than they were in the 70's (if not moreso.) Where was the "drop-off" that surely would have been evident if the players of the 80's and later were better?

Furthermore, let's reverse this. Do you honestly believe that a PRIME Shaq, circa 2000, which was 12 years ago, would be less dominant against the clowns that man the pivot today? Do you think a '95 Hakeem would struggle much more in THIS NBA? Or that an MJ, in '91, would be dominated by the guards of today (after all, that was over 20 years ago?)

And given what we KNOW about how Kareem fared throughout his career, do you think that an '83 Moses would have problems with the centers of today? Or an '80 Dr. J? Or an '80 Kareem? Or a '78 Walton? Or a '75 Barry? Or a '75 McAdoo? Or a '73 Tiny Archibald? Or a '71 Kareem? Or a '70 West? Or a '67 Wilt? Or a '65 Russell? Or a '63 Oscar?

[Round Mound]

Lets Just Admit he has the Highest Peek Ever for a Player and Would Be the Best Center and Player in Today`s Game.

Peek Stats in Modern Era of No Real Centers: 38 PPG on 56% FG, 17 RPG, 5 APG, 4 BPG

[jlauber]

Lets Just Admit he has the Highest Peek Ever for a Player and Would Be the Best Center and Player in Today`s Game.

Peek Stats in Modern Era of No Real Centers: 38 PPG on 56% FG, 17 RPG, 5 APG, 4 BPG

We'll never know, of course, but I think those numbers would be very reasonable (and probably more bpg.)

Much of it would depend on his surrounding personnel, and coaching philosophies, as well. On a poor roster, those numbers would probably be close. On a decent team, I suspect that his scoring would drop to the 25 ppg level, but perhaps on .600+ shooting. But he would still occasionally hang a 40-50 point game.

In any case, with his size, strength, length, athleticism, and skills, he would probably dominate the current NBA.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Explain to me why Kareem shot horribly against Thurmond (in 43 career H2H's), and against an OLD Chamberlain (in 28 career H2H's), and yet couldn't miss against the likes of Hakeem and Ewing?

Or that a PRIME Kareem had seasons of .539, .529, .518, and even .513 (at age 27) in the 70's, and his WORST season in the 80's (excluding his last two at ages 40 and 41) were .564 (with career highs of .604 and .599)?

And how come Kareem was nowhere near as dominant against many of the SAME centers that a PRIME Chamberlain just murdered? Where was Kareem's 60+ point games, and 40+ ppg seasons? Keep in mind that he played FOUR seasons IN the Wilt-era, too.

Or that centers like McAdoo, Lanier, Gilmore, and especially Moses, gave him far more trouble than the other centers of the 80's?

Dr. J, Moses, Dantley, Gilmore, and many others...were at least as dominant in the 80's, than they were in the 70's (if not moreso.) Where was the "drop-off" that surely would have been evident if the players of the 80's and later were better?

Furthermore, let's reverse this. Do you honestly believe that a PRIME Shaq, circa 2000, which was 12 years ago, would be less dominant against the clowns that man the pivot today? Do you think a '95 Hakeem would struggle much more in THIS NBA? Or that an MJ, in '91, would be dominated by the guards of today (after all, that was over 20 years ago?)

And given what we KNOW about how Kareem fared throughout his career, do you think that an '83 Moses would have problems with the centers of today? Or an '80 Dr. J? Or an '80 Kareem? Or a '78 Walton? Or a '75 Barry? Or a '75 McAdoo? Or a '73 Tiny Archibald? Or a '71 Kareem? Or a '70 West? Or a '67 Wilt? Or a '65 Russell? Or a '63 Oscar?
Let me go by this logic.

Explain to me why Kobe shot a pathetic 9-30 FG vs Nick Young in 2012?
Nick Young must be an amazing all-time great :bowdown:

[jlauber]

Let me go by this logic.

Explain to me why Kobe shot a pathetic 9-30 FG vs Nick Young in 2012?
Nick Young must be an amazing all-time great :bowdown:

Kobe has had a TON of games like that in his career. It didn't make a difference who was guarding him. Conversely, he has had a TON of explosions against even the "Kobe-stoppers" like Bruce Bowen, Ruben Patterson, and Doug Christy.

BTW, you are citing ONE game. An OLD Kareem, ages 38 to 41, averaged 23 ppg and shot .607 in his 23 career H2H's against a 23-26 year old Hakeem. And, in their first TEN STRAIGHT GAMES, Kareem averaged 32 ppg on .633 shooting, which included THREE games of 40, 43, and 46 points. Hakeem only held him to under 50% shooting in THREE of those 23 games BTW.

[Round Mound]

We'll never know, of course, but I think those numbers would be very reasonable (and probably more bpg.)

Much of it would depend on his surrounding personnel, and coaching philosophies, as well. On a poor roster, those numbers would probably be close. On a decent team, I suspect that his scoring would drop to the 25 ppg level, but perhaps on .600+ shooting. But he would still occasionally hang a 40-50 point game.

In any case, with his size, strength, length, athleticism, and skills, he would probably dominate the current NBA.

Yup...The 2000s Is The Era With the Worst Centers Ive Seen. Rule Changes have Favored Outside Play Too Much IMO

[riseagainst]

24ppg 12rebounds 52% 2blocks freethrow-36%
:coleman:

[Owl]

Too hard to project numbers for Wilt, in part because of the general problems with "time travel" projections and because Wilt's numbers fluctuated so much (though always impressive) depending on factors including competition, skill level of teammates and especially his role. So I won't project numbers out of context becuase I don't know if he'd be a hyperdominant scorer on good percentages, or leading scorer in an ensemble offense on ridiculous %s whilst also being a distributor and defensive anchor (I think I'd prefer to see the latter). Anyway the numbers most people are suggesting don't seem unrealisitic, and it seems safe to say he'd be very good indeed.

[scandisk_]

No it wouldn't.
And I didn't mean players like Wilt and West would be total scrubs.

So at the end of the day, you can only dominate the era you are in. Basketball greatness transcend eras bruh that's a FACT. They've got the hardware, the talents and the skill, adapting to the new rules would be easy as f*ck. Nutrition and advanced training? all can be achieved.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe has had a TON of games like that in his career. It didn't make a difference who was guarding him. Conversely, he has had a TON of explosions against even the "Kobe-stoppers" like Bruce Bowen, Ruben Patterson, and Doug Christy.

BTW, you are citing ONE game. An OLD Kareem, ages 38 to 41, averaged 23 ppg and shot .607 in his 23 career H2H's against a 23-26 year old Hakeem. And, in their first TEN STRAIGHT GAMES, Kareem averaged 32 ppg on .633 shooting, which included THREE games of 40, 43, and 46 points. Hakeem only held him to under 50% shooting in THREE of those 23 games BTW.
Nick Young has held Kobe to the following FG-FGA games:

7-24
5-17
4-11
9-31

A combined 25-81 FG

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=youngni01

Nick Young. All-Time Great :bowdown:

[Owl]

Nick Young has held Kobe to the following FG-FGA games:

7-24
5-17
4-11
9-31

A combined 25-81 FG

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=youngni01

Nick Young. All-Time Great :bowdown:
Not that I necessarily support relatively small samples of if you wish to make big conclusions (depending on what a person is trying to claim and what additional evidence they support).

But what you're doing is picking and choosing matches, which Jlauber isn't. Over the totality of their matchups his fg% .453 is almost identical to his fg% leaguewide over that period (08/09 to 11/12) .452 . So if you're willing to pick and choose, Kobe having some ugly fg% performances isn't that rare (his efficiency, in as far as Kobe is efficient, comes from his ability to get to the line), but making conclusions based off doing that is different than taking all matchups over a period.

[jlauber]

Nick Young has held Kobe to the following FG-FGA games:

7-24
5-17
4-11
9-31

A combined 25-81 FG

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=youngni01

Nick Young. All-Time Great :bowdown:

And overall to 25.7 ppg on .453 shooting in nine games.

Hardly representative of an OLD Kareem averaging 32.0 ppg on .633 shooting over the course of TEN STRAIGHT games against Hakeem, and in their 23 CAREER H2H's, averaging 23 ppg on .607 shooting. Oh, and in those 23 H2H's, Kareem shot better than 50% in 20 of them; better than 60% in 12 of them, and better than 70% in five of them.

[millwad]

And overall to 25.7 ppg on .453 shooting in nine games.

Hardly representative of an OLD Kareem averaging 32.0 ppg on .633 shooting over the course of TEN STRAIGHT games against Hakeem, and in their 23 CAREER H2H's, averaging 23 ppg on .607 shooting. Oh, and in those 23 H2H's, Kareem shot better than 50% in 20 of them; better than 60% in 12 of them, and better than 70% in five of them.

In which he didn't get guarded by Akeem in all of them... :facepalm

[jlauber]

In which he didn't get guarded by Akeem in all of them... :facepalm

Go ahead and give us the VIDEO FOOTAGE of the games that Hakeem did NOT guard Kareem. And yes, it was SAMPSON who guarded Kareem in the '86 WCF's.

[millwad]

Go ahead and give us the VIDEO FOOTAGE of the games that Hakeem did NOT guard Kareem. And yes, it was SAMPSON who guarded Kareem in the '86 WCF's.

You're the one who claims he guarded Kareem in every one of those games, you're the one who's supposed to prove it.

I had a game on my laptop from '85, not a full game but in that game Kareem was guarded even more by Petersen than Olajuwon and Sampson was the one who did the main job on him.

Now you've provided us with articles that proves that Kareem was guarded in plenty of them match-ups as well but I don't like your assumptions at all, you're always assuming the worst when it comes to other players and when it comes to your beloved Wilt you're doing the direct opposite.

And why are you in this thread anyway? You've never written a word without bias about Wilt.

[jlauber]

You're the one who claims he guarded Kareem in every one of those games, you're the one who's supposed to prove it.

I had a game on my laptop from '85, not a full game but in that game Kareem was guarded even more by Petersen than Olajuwon and Sampson was the one who did the main job on him.

Now you've provided us with articles that proves that Kareem was guarded in plenty of them match-ups as well but I don't like your assumptions at all, you're always assuming the worst when it comes to other players and when it comes to your beloved Wilt you're doing the direct opposite.

And why are you in this thread anyway? You've never written a word without bias about Wilt.

This coming from the clown who goes OUT OF HIS WAY to bash Wilt in every topic about him.

And too bad the 40 point game against Hakeem was removed from YouTube, but in it Kareem was clearly (un)GUARDED by Hakeem. It was laughable. And that wasn't even close to Kareem's best game against HAKEEM, either.

[millwad]

This coming from the clown who goes OUT OF HIS WAY to bash Wilt in every topic about him.

And too bad the 40 point game against Hakeem was removed from YouTube, but in it Kareem was clearly (un)GUARDED by Hakeem. It was laughable. And that wasn't even close to Kareem's best game against HAKEEM, either.

Hakeem was a rookie and a 2nd year pro you retard, he was NO WHERE close to his prime, why is that so hard to understand? And the same Olajuwon destroyed Jabbar in the '86 playoffs as a 2nd year pro. Your nonsense about some regular season games is pathetic, we know that Hakeem destroyed Jabbar in the playoffs, THE SAME YEAR.. :facepalm

And no, I don't diss Wilt, I diss your worthless credibility.

[jongib369]

If david Robinson could why couldn't wilt get 70 something points ?

[millwad]

If david Robinson could why couldn't wilt get 70 something points ?

Robinson scored 70 once, and he did it against the worst team in the league.

[CavaliersFTW]

he would be Javale McGee, minus the athleticism