Why was the 2004 Olympics team so bad?

[FKAri]

You can't say that it "wasn't their day" when they finished 4th in a 6 team group and then lost for a 3rd time in the semifinal. They were flat out not the best team at the tournament.

Results:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_2004_Summer_Olympics#Men.27s_tou rnament

Why do you think this team struggled so much? Clearly international competition had improved but aside from that.

[TheBigVeto]

Any team with Stephon Marbury isn't gonna win the olympics ever.
Now, with that said, I'm not sure if the USA 2012 team can beat the 2004 team easily.

[D-Rose]

No team chemistry, will to win, and a bunch of thugs on the roster.

[bluechox2]

allen iverson, marbury :facepalm

team had a, i can do it on my own, approach

[leopoldstotch]

i agree with the above. the team never had any cohesiveness and melo and lebron were too young that year.

[KOBE143]

No Kobe :confusedshrug:

[BuffaloBill]

No GAWDbe

[longhornfan1234]

Prime Duncan should have willed USA. :facepalm

[TMacMagic]

Any team with Stephon Marbury isn't gonna win the olympics ever.
Now, with that said, I'm not sure if the USA 2012 team can beat the 2004 team easily.

:biggums:

[Euroleague]

The 2004 USA team would have beaten the 2012 Lithuanian team by more than 5 points.

[Pushxx]

Prime Duncan should have willed USA. :facepalm

Hard to motivate yourself or a team that has on-court chemistry issues. That's a coach's job.

[Kyle_korver]

allen iverson, marbury :facepalm

team had a, i can do it on my own, approach
but they were on the 2000 team that won gold :confusedshrug:

[TheBigVeto]

but they were on the 2000 team that won gold :confusedshrug:

What????

[DTreats]

Rumors are that Duncan didn't give it his all and the box scores and indicative of that, he was the best player on the squad yet everyone said that he didn't give a shit. I know he doesn't consider himself an American but damn if you're on the team at least give it your all.

Lost a lot of respect for Tim in 2004.

[Rake2204]

After steam rolling foreign competition from '92 through '00, I think the push to include the best of the best on the USA team began to wane. I think most stars no longer saw the importance in playing for Team USA and would have preferred to take the summers off to participating in the Olympics. I also cannot recall the injury situations for each player at the time. Regardless, one way or another, here's a list off the top of my head of players who did not participate on that '04 squad:

-Kobe Bryant
-Shaquille O'Neal
-Kevin Garnett
-Jason Kidd
-Vince Carter
-Tracy McGrady

Four of the five 2004 All-NBA First Teamers did not participate (Tim Duncan was the lone representative). In fact, Duncan was the only player to have made any of the three All-NBA teams in '04. Other prime All-NBA players who were not present included:

-Jermaine O'Neal
-Baron Davis
-Ron Artest
-Ben Wallace
-Michael Redd

To take it one step further, the 2004 USA Team only featured 2 current All-Stars (Duncan and Iverson). Other 2004 All-Stars left off the roster included:

-Ray Allen
-Steve Francis
-Kenyon Martin
-Paul Pierce
-Brad Miller
-Sam Cassell

For head coach Larry Brown, keen on respecting veterans over extreme youth (leading to the mere supporting roles for the teenaged or basically teenaged LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Amare Stoudemire), this left a starting unit of:

PG - Stephon Marbury
SG - Allen Iverson
SF - Richard Jefferson
PF - Lamar Odom
C - Tim Duncan

That's right, Lamar Odom, Richard Jefferson and Stephon Marbury started all 8 games for the 2004 Dream Team. Further, Allen Iverson took a team leading 90 shots, 19 more than the next guy in line, and he made 37.8% of them. Stephon Marbury took the 2nd most shots, and made 42.3% of those (both in contrast to Tim Duncan's 56.7% field goal percentage). Not to be forgotten, Dwyane Wade and Richard Jefferson shot 38% and 32%, respectively.

I believe the USA still could have been successful in 2004 because it's not as if their roster wasn't made of good NBA players, but the results we saw kind of write themselves after one takes a look at the roster makeup they employed. It's cliche to say, but it's not as if the USA backcourt was one that'd carved its niche out by playing team ball and taking smart shots throughout their careers. On the contrary, they were exposed by opponents who did nothing but play team ball.

Above all else though, the number one failure of the 2004 team was pretty clear to me, there were 17 All-Stars or All-NBA guys who skipped out on joining Team USA in 2004. I believe if even 35% of those guys committed (that's 5.95 players), the Olympic gold would have likely dropped into the USA's hands once again that season. It just felt as if folks thought we could just send whoever we wanted over there and emerge wildly victorious (hey let's send Nick Collison!)

For comparison, the 1992 Dream Team featured nine players from the '92 All-NBA First and Second Team. Meanwhile, as previously mentioned, the '04 squad featured one. It'd be similar to removing LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, and Tyson Chandler from the '12 team, leaving Kevin Durant alone to operate alongside Monta Ellis, Paul Millsap, and David Lee.


Rumors are that Duncan didn't give it his all and the box scores and indicative of that, he was the best player on the squad yet everyone said that he didn't give a shit. I know he doesn't consider himself an American but damn if you're on the team at least give it your all.

Lost a lot of respect for Tim in 2004.I have not heard that rumor before. Could you point me in the right direction of some sources on that issue? From my ragged memory I just remember Duncan struggling to adjust to international play, making moves and banging inside the way he would in the NBA, but instead being whistled for loose ball fouls with regularity. There seemed to be a lot of foul trouble for Duncan, which might explain the numbers a little bit. It was slightly frustrating to watch.

[SilkkTheShocker]

- No shooters
- Duncan wasn't his usual self in international play
- Brown is a stubborn coach who can't adapt to overseas rules
-Rookie were kept on the bench for the most part

Still remember Iverson driving and than passing out for an open 3 that would brick :facepalm

[TMacMagic]

but they were on the 2000 team that won gold :confusedshrug:

Haha, they were not on that team :kobe:

[LikeABosh]

D Wade, Lebron, and Melo were too young. Guys like Marbury and Iverson ruined chemistry. No team work.

[MrWarrior]

The 2004 USA team would have beaten the 2012 Lithuanian team by more than 5 points.

The 2012 Greek team lost to Nigeria.

[SilkkTheShocker]

No GAWDbe

That was the same guy who sabotaged a Finals series a few week earlier. He wouldn't have gotten us the gold.

[ukballer]

The 2004 USA team would have beaten the 2012 Lithuanian team by more than 5 points.

You are a racist and a moron.

[steve]

I have not heard that rumor before. Could you point me in the right direction of some sources on that issue? From my ragged memory I just remember Duncan struggling to adjust to international play, making moves and banging inside the way he would in the NBA, but instead being whistled for loose ball fouls with regularity. There seemed to be a lot of foul trouble for Duncan, which might explain the numbers a little bit. It was slightly frustrating to watch.

It wasn't so much that he wasn't adjusting to international play but that the US team in general wasn't adjusting to international play. There was absolutely no spacing by the US and opposing teams would just pack it in against Duncan because there was no fear that the US could hit an outside shot.

Other things people need to keep in mind about that team was most everyone from the FIBA Americas tournament the previous summer had pretty much backed out (I think only Kidd and McGrady were actually injured) and the actual team was put together only a few weeks before the exhibition warm ups started.

[bootsy]

No team chemistry, will to win, and a bunch of thugs on the roster.
:rolleyes: So lame dude. You don't even know what a thug is. That team didn't have any thugs. Lebron, Carmelo, Tim Duncan among others was on that team. GTFOH with that thug bullshit.

[DaHeezy]

Hard to motivate yourself or a team that has on-court chemistry issues. That's a coach's job.

The motivation is GOLD and PRIDE.

That's a disgrace to Tim Duncan to say that. It virtually saying he's not a competitor. As a competitor you strive for adversity no matter what the situation

And who's to say that it's Allen Iverson or Marbruy's fault? It's a TEAM game. The other TEAMS just got better

End of story

[Meticode]

It's called the Allen Iverson effect. Marbury and Iverson both had these traits.

[jlip]

Prime Duncan should have willed USA. :facepalm

Rumors are that Duncan didn't give it his all and the box scores and indicative of that, he was the best player on the squad yet everyone said that he didn't give a shit. I know he doesn't consider himself an American but damn if you're on the team at least give it your all.

Lost a lot of respect for Tim in 2004.

"But even in their final game, some U.S. players still hadn't figured out precisely how the international game -- run by its governing body, FIBA -- is played. Center Tim Duncan, an absolute force with the NBA's San Antonio Spurs, again ran into foul trouble. Duncan never learned how to seal a defender in the post without drawing a whistle, and despite the team's turnaround, he will leave Greece frustrated by his first Olympic experience.
"Let me say it nicely," Duncan said. "It's not been fun."

Then Duncan, who added that he was "95 percent sure my FIBA career is over," was asked if he had learned anything.

"FIBA [stinks]," he said. "I'm sorry. I had to say that."

source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41921-2004Aug28.html)

[sacredcow]

Larry Brown. His rotation was the downfall. Wade and James being bench warmers?

[DaHeezy]

As I recall AI was the only one to show pride in winning the Bronze. With that sportsmanship it wakes me wonder why people question his attitude.

No one man loses a team game

[SilkkTheShocker]

Larry Brown. His rotation was the downfall. Wade and James being bench warmers?


Pretty much. Brown was a good coach, but a terribl fit for internatonal play. Always been his way or the highway. I also remember Melo being in his doghouse

[Rake2204]

If the 1992 USA Basketball Team were selected like the 2004 team, the resulting very unscientific depth chart could have looked like this (with each player's rough 2004 comparison in parentheses):

C - David Robinson (Tim Duncan, both top 3 MVP candidates in given year)
PF - Derrick Coleman (Lamar Odom, promising versatile forwards)
SF - Sean Elliott (Richard Jefferson, solidly athletic wings)
SG - Ron Harper (tough to find a Marbury clone in '92, so player coming up on downside of their prime was my choice, though Harp played D)
PG - Tim Hardaway (Allen Iverson, but likely a better shooter and passer, again tough to find a high volume, low % All-Star guard in '92)
6 - Cliff Robinson (Shawn Marion, future All-Star, defender)
7 - Horace Grant (Carlos Boozer)
8 - Glen Rice (Dwyane Wade, obviously Wade had higher roof, but was still a rising non-All Star at the time, like Rice)
9 - Shawn Kemp (Amare Stoudemire, Kemp still rough at this point)
10 - Larry Johnson (LeBron James, no non-All Star in '92 will compare to James, so Johnson's here to represent James' role as '04 Rookie of the Year not getting much shine on the Olympic team.)
11 - Steve Smith (Carmelo Anthony, 2nd best American rookie of '92, again lower peak than Anthony acknowledged.)
12 - Christian Laettner (Emeka Okafor, high achieving college four year guy)

So, a clean look at the '92 USA team, built like '04's squad instead of hosting the likes of Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Drexler, and Magic:

David Robinson
Derrick Coleman
Sean Elliott
Ron Harper
Tim Hardaway
Cliff Robinson
Horace Grant
Glen Rice
Shawn Kemp
Larry Johnson
Steve Smith
Christian Laettner

It'd be important to note the youth of this team, as many players would not be what they'd become (again like the '04 team with Wade, Stoudemire, Boozer, James, and Anthony). Some of these players would star on Dream Team II, but with two more important years of experience under their belts. Anyway, point is, even though this '92 squad isn't necessarily made up of bad players, it's not exactly a Dream Team (featuring only one All-NBAer and two All-Stars, just like the '04 team).

On the flip side, if the '04 team were build like the real Dream Team, it may have looked more like this:

PG - Jason Kidd
SG - Kobe Bryant
SF - Kevin Garnett
PF - Tim Duncan
C - Shaquille O'Neal
6- Tracy McGrady
7 - Jermaine O'Neal
8 - Vince Carter
9 - Ray Allen
10 - Allen Iverson
11 - Ben Wallace
12 - Emeka Okafor

I believe there's little doubt that team would have experienced much more success in Athens.

[steve]

As I recall AI was the only one to show pride in winning the Bronze. With that sportsmanship it wakes me wonder why people question his attitude.

No one man loses a team game

Yeah, I've never really gotten this. Iverson was one of the few players who lobbied hard to be included on this Olympic squad (and the FIBA Americas team the year before) and when several players were backing out of the '04 Olympics, Iverson was really one of two players to stick with the team.

[TMacMagic]

:rolleyes: So lame dude. You don't even know what a thug is. That team didn't have any thugs. Lebron, Carmelo, Tim Duncan among others was on that team. GTFOH with that thug bullshit.

As much as I hate to talk about my race in that way, I have to agree. AI and SM were straight up thugs, and if not, they sure acted like them.

[BuffaloBill]

That was the same guy who sabotaged a Finals series a few week earlier. He wouldn't have gotten us the gold.




Stop your childish hating. Yes he would have.

[mrbigshot1]

They should have just let the 2004 Pistons compete.

[Gotterdammerung]

Other things people need to keep in mind about that team was most everyone from the FIBA Americas tournament the previous summer had pretty much backed out (I think only Kidd and McGrady were actually injured) and the actual team was put together only a few weeks before the exhibition warm ups started.

The USA basketball team went 10-0 in 2003, led by Kidd (5 apg) and Duncan (16 ppg, 8 reb), along with Iverson (14 ppg), McGrady & Carter (13 ppg each) from the perimeter. That team was efficient, with 31 ppg victory margins and 29 assists per game, and Larry Brown was the coach. :confusedshrug:

[StateOfMind12]

Because that team was just not good.

Nobody wanted to play in the Olympics anymore in 2004, probably because they all thought they could put anyone on the team and they would still win gold. 2004 showed everyone that it's not that easy anymore.


Plus, I believe most of the team these Olympic teams gain and create chemistry/cohesiveness during the other international play like FIBA and other tournaments. I'm pretty sure this team was pretty much just assembled at the last moment.

[DaHeezy]

Yeah, I've never really gotten this. Iverson was one of the few players who lobbied hard to be included on this Olympic squad (and the FIBA Americas team the year before) and when several players were backing out of the '04 Olympics, Iverson was really one of two players to stick with the team.

Exactly. Not to mention this team had no time to gel while other teams had months to prepare.

They lacked a pure PG, they lacked perimeter shooters. They filled it with rookies instead of getting guys like Ray Allen or bruce Bowen (granted I would have stayed with Lebron).

This does not fall soley on Iverson's shoulders

[Rake2204]

Because that team was just not good.

Nobody wanted to play in the Olympics anymore in 2004, probably because they all thought they could put anyone on the team and they would still win gold. 2004 showed everyone that it's not that easy anymore.


Plus, I believe most of the team these Olympic teams gain and create chemistry/cohesiveness during the other international play like FIBA and other tournaments. I'm pretty sure this team was pretty much just assembled at the last moment.
To me, that's more or less the reason right there in your first paragraph. It almost felt like the USA got to a point where they seemed to be planning to move new players in every Olympics so someone else could get a turn winning a gold medal, just to spread the wealth a little. Plus, as you said, no big stars seemed to have the faintest interest in joining. If a real '04 Dream Team came together (Shaq, Kobe, KG, Duncan, McGrady, Carter, etc.) I don't think pre-Olympic practice time would have mattered.

[DaHeezy]

The USA basketball team went 10-0 in 2003, led by Kidd (5 apg) and Duncan (16 ppg, 8 reb), along with Iverson (14 ppg), McGrady & Carter (13 ppg each) from the perimeter. That team was efficient, with 31 ppg victory margins and 29 assists per game, and Larry Brown was the coach. :confusedshrug:

There you go. Duncan and Iverson leading the team in 2003.

So again, how is it Iverson's fault?

[Real Men Wear Green]

You are a racist and a moron.
You forgot to call him ugly too.

[madmax17]

That loss to Puerto Rico :lol was embarrassing.

2002 team was worse, got beat 3x in their own back yard.

[Rake2204]

That loss to Puerto Rico :lol was embarrassing.

2002 team was worse, got beat 3x in their own back yard.
Yeesh, I can't decide which roster was worse. Here's the '02 lineup:

Elton Brand
Antonio Davis
Baron Davis
Michael Finley
Raef LaFrentz
Shawn Marion
Andre Miller
Reggie Miller
Jermaine O'Neal
Paul Pierce
Ben Wallace
Jay Williams
Nick Collison

[FKAri]

Iverson played his heart out. The only guy on that team that seemed like a thug was RJ when Carlos Arroyo was absolutely beasting, RJ kept trying to start shit with him in the last few moments as the game was already decided.

[tomtucker]

Iverson played his heart out. The only guy on that team that seemed like a thug was RJ when Carlos Arroyo was absolutely beasting, RJ kept trying to start shit with him in the last few moments as the game was already decided.

yes, but is/was iverson not a very selfish player ?........wanted to do the scoring by himself, and not a good team player......?.......... talking both olympics and NBA....

[DaHeezy]

yes, but is/was iverson not a very selfish player ?........wanted to do the scoring by himself, and not a good team player......?.......... talking both olympics and NBA....

Again, read my quote from above.

Iverson led the 2003 team to a perfect 10-0 record in the World Championship.

Try again

[TMacMagic]

Since Larry Brown was coaching maybe AI thought he was in Philly and had to do all the work :lol

[Euroleague]

Again, read my quote from above.

Iverson led the 2003 team to a perfect 10-0 record in the World Championship.

Try again

FALSE.

[Euroleague]

That loss to Puerto Rico :lol was embarrassing.

2002 team was worse, got beat 3x in their own back yard.

2004 team lost to,

Italy
Puerto Rico
Lithuania
Argentina

4 losses is worse than 3.

[kentatm]

that team was poorly put together and Larry Brown was too full of himself to let the young guys play when the older guys were sucking.

[Euroleague]

that team was poorly put together and Larry Brown was too full of himself to let the young guys play when the older guys were sucking.

Those same "younger guys" were 2 years older in 2006, and still didn't win the gold.

You are just making up bullshit nonsense excuses.

[kentatm]

Those same "younger guys" were 2 years older in 2006, and still didn't win the gold.

You are just making up bullshit nonsense excuses.


:rolleyes: :oldlol:


nobody gives a shit about your pathetic analysis.

we are talking about the 04 team you dumb bastard.

other teams mean jack shit in this discussion.

[stolper]

the blame falls directly on larry brown and his unwillingness to play the younger guys.

stop blaming iverson just because of his reputation. anybody who watched that olympics knows that iverson was the only guy who showed up and played his heart out.

[Euroleague]

:rolleyes: :oldlol:


nobody gives a shit about your pathetic analysis.

we are talking about the 04 team you dumb bastard.

other teams mean jack shit in this discussion.

You tried to blame Larry Brown for the losses, because he didn't play "the younger guys", implying if he did that they would have won gold.

But those same "younger guys", 2 years later (when they were 2 years older) could not win gold in 2006.

So basically what you are saying is total and complete BULLSHIT.

You are a delusional individual.

[Euroleague]

the blame falls directly on larry brown and his unwillingness to play the younger guys.

stop blaming iverson just because of his reputation. anybody who watched that olympics knows that iverson was the only guy who showed up and played his heart out.

The "younger guys" got the bronze (when they were 2 years older) in 2006.

If they could not win gold in 2006, what the **** makes you think they could have won it in 2004?

You are retarded.

[tomtucker]

Again, read my quote from above.

Iverson led the 2003 team to a perfect 10-0 record in the World Championship.

Try again

but i was asking, not making a statement.........was iverson not a very selfish player ?........in the NBA too

[dude77]

:oldlol: @the team usa homers here .. that team was garbage .. yeah a team of professional nba players was trash and got their asses handed to them in international play .. butt hurt ? .. no fkn excuses .. if you wanna boast about the great teams you have to acknowledge the shitty teams as well otherwise you just look like a biased sore loser

[RIP CITY]

Allen Iverson has definitely had bouts with being a selfish player but I watched every game that team played and he definitely wasn't playing selfish. Yeah he shot alittle more than everyone else on the team but that was his role, he and Duncan were supposed to shoot the most shots on that team based on how it was constructed. He definitely could have shot alot more, honestly despite his poor percentages he probably should have shot more (should have drove to the basket looking for his own finish actually, he kicked it out too much IMO) and I went in expecting him to shoot alittle more than he did. He did a good job of trying to pick his spots and he was definitely a willing passer in that Tournament. Marbury on the other hand was a blackhole, who shot far too much and shouldn't have been starting in the first place. Iverson begged to be on Team USA for two years before they finally added him to the roster because of all the drop outs, he's never taken a more unselfish approach to the game than he did during his time with that team and he played harder than anyone else on the roster during that Tournament.

I would say it was a combination of alot of things. Like others have said, alot of players didn't want to play in 2004 and turned down the opportunity. Even Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton turned down their invitations (Because they had just won a Championship in grueling fashion and wanted the time off to recover). They didn't just have the big stars turn down the invite, they went through about 10-15 guys that declined to play. Players in the NBA had become apathetic to Team USA, assuming that no matter who we trotted out there we would win so it was ok for them to skip playing and rest because someone else would get it done. They simply got overconfident and lazy when it came to representing their Country because they felt there was no challenge to the thrown.

Larry Brown, as great as he is, was not the right Coach for that exact team. I'm not saying he couldn't have won in International play, he did the year before with a different team. If the team didn't have so many players drop out he definitely could have won. The problem was, with so many players backing out and his insistence on playing veterans over youngsters, the team relied on guys that just weren't the best players on the team, had a bad mix of players on the court together and never built chemistry and defined the roles they should have had on the team. LeBron, Wade and Amare should have played alot more while guys like Richard Jefferson, Lamar Odom and Marbury should have played alot less (The way Marbury was playing he shouldn't have played at all IMO). Given that the team didn't have a true PG, LeBron and Wade should have played more because of their playmaking abilities. Amare and Duncan would have been an effective frontcourt pairing with LeBron, Wade and Iverson getting them the ball in easy spots instead of Marbury being out there trying to drive or shoot every time he got the ball and players like Jefferson and Odom being unable to create for themselves or shoot from the outside.

Brown is a very stubborn, stuck in his ways Coach who basically hates young players. Though, I'm still baffled as to why he let Marbury play so much when he was playing so selfishly, he hated players that play that way, guess he was just that stubborn when it comes to young players.

The Starting Lineup should have been:

Duncan
Amare
LeBron
Wade
Iverson

Jefferson was horrendous offensively in the Tournament and was an overrated defender his entire career, yet he was considered one of the defensive stoppers on the team and was played in that role. Odom should have been a bench player on the team, Amare would have been much more effective offensively and with Duncan in the paint next to him his defense wouldn't have been a problem, he actually would have been better defensively in this case because he's a better shotblocker than Odom and it would have kept teams from going inside as much as they did.

For as bad as people make Iverson out to be defensively, Marbury was far worse in the Tournament. Wade, LeBron and Iverson defending the perimeter would have caused more turnovers and more fastbreak opportunities, all 3 are great fastbreak players along with Amare. This Team USA didn't get out on the break nearly as much as they have since then, and it's because they couldn't create enough turnovers with their defense.

The team also needed more outside shooting, which was a flaw of the roster. Iverson's draw and kick game was on point in the Tournament, getting open looks for guys that just weren't hitting their shots.

On top of that, the entire team had trouble adjusting to International play and rules, which were even alittle more different than they are now (They have since widened the lane for example). As pointed out, Duncan struggled with officiating in the Tournament and was in foul trouble at times, it took away alot of his aggressiveness in the paint. Simply put, Brown tried to play the NBA game in International play, with a slower pace than they should have played and didn't take advantage of the teams strengths while playing veterans that were clearly inferior players to the younger guys on the team.

Another thing already pointed out was the time the team had before the Tournament to develop chemistry was extremely short and given that there were pieces that didn't fit together, one ballhog selfish player screwing up the offensive chemistry, no sharpshooters to spread the floor and better players on the bench than players than were starting they needed all the time they could get to figure out how to play together.

Also, that Argentina team was at it's peak. Ginobili, Nocioni, Scola etc. were all much younger and extremely motivated to knock off Team USA. That entire field in that Tournament was extremely frustrated by years of being pounded by the USA team, they were simply fed up with it. Every team treated that matchup with the US team as the Gold Medal game and took the matchup personally. In the years after I think teams have had more faith in their ability to win the Tournament and weren't focused solely on upsetting Team USA because they had seen it done and were more confident they could do it. The desperation was actually a better strategy than the one they have today, where they believe they can matchup with Team USA and win.

In was the perfect storm basically. Team USA didn't send their best players, didn't have the right mix of players, didn't have the same time to prepare, didn't have the cohesiveness other teams had built with years of playing together, didn't use their best lineups or rotation, had one blackhole player disrupting the flow of the offense, a stubborn Coach that didn't adjust, a few players that didn't adjust to the International style of play, a couple guys that shot the ball worse than they normally do, played against extremely hungry and motivated teams that would have been fine with losing every other game as long as they beat Team USA, another great team with NBA players at their peak as a team and Team USA just wasn't as disciplined as they needed to be to get it done. In the end, teams wanted to beat Team USA more than that particular USA Team wanted to win the Gold and they just got outplayed, out-coached and out-hustled by hungrier teams that wanted it more.

[DaHeezy]

FALSE.

Sorry, Olympic qualifier. But you get the jyst.

[Rake2204]

:oldlol: @the team usa homers here .. that team was garbage .. yeah a team of professional nba players was trash and got their asses handed to them in international play .. butt hurt ? .. no fkn excuses .. if you wanna boast about the great teams you have to acknowledge the shitty teams as well otherwise you just look like a biased sore loser
May I ask what type of posts this response was gauged toward? In my opinion, some people have been off base by claiming the '04 team was a bunch of thugs, but most other folks seemed to have agreed that the USA did not send their best in '04 and of their starters, two of them were not renown for their ability to play within a team construct, even if they did hold a lot of national pride. As a result, they were defeated fairly and squarely. I'm not sure I've seen many posts of people arguing otherwise.



Allen Iverson has definitely had bouts with being a selfish player but I watched every game that team played and he definitely wasn't playing selfish. Yeah he shot alittle more than everyone else on the team but that was his role, he and Duncan were supposed to shoot the most shots on that team based on how it was constructed. He definitely could have shot alot more, honestly despite his poor percentages he probably should have shot more (should have drove to the basket looking for his own finish actually, he kicked it out too much IMO) and I went in expecting him to shoot alittle more than he did. He did a good job of trying to pick his spots and he was definitely a willing passer in that Tournament. Marbury on the other hand was a blackhole, who shot far too much and shouldn't have been starting in the first place. Iverson begged to be on Team USA for two years before they finally added him to the roster because of all the drop outs, he's never taken a more unselfish approach to the game than he did during his time with that team and he played harder than anyone else on the roster during that Tournament.

I would say it was a combination of alot of things. Like others have said, alot of players didn't want to play in 2004 and turned down the opportunity. Even Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton turned down their invitations (Because they had just won a Championship in grueling fashion and wanted the time off to recover). They didn't just have the big stars turn down the invite, they went through about 10-15 guys that declined to play. Players in the NBA had become apathetic to Team USA, assuming that no matter who we trotted out there we would win so it was ok for them to skip playing and rest because someone else would get it done. They simply got overconfident and lazy when it came to representing their Country because they felt there was no challenge to the thrown.

Larry Brown, as great as he is, was not the right Coach for that exact team. I'm not saying he couldn't have won in International play, he did the year before with a different team. If the team didn't have so many players drop out he definitely could have won. The problem was, with so many players backing out and his insistence on playing veterans over youngsters, the team relied on guys that just weren't the best players on the team, had a bad mix of players on the court together and never built chemistry and defined the roles they should have had on the team. LeBron, Wade and Amare should have played alot more while guys like Richard Jefferson, Lamar Odom and Marbury should have played alot less (The way Marbury was playing he shouldn't have played at all IMO). Given that the team didn't have a true PG, LeBron and Wade should have played more because of their playmaking abilities. Amare and Duncan would have been an effective frontcourt pairing with LeBron, Wade and Iverson getting them the ball in easy spots instead of Marbury being out there trying to drive or shoot every time he got the ball and players like Jefferson and Odom being unable to create for themselves or shoot from the outside.

Brown is a very stubborn, stuck in his ways Coach who basically hates young players. Though, I'm still baffled as to why he let Marbury play so much when he was playing so selfishly, he hated players that play that way, guess he was just that stubborn when it comes to young players.

The Starting Lineup should have been:

Duncan
Amare
LeBron
Wade
Iverson

Jefferson was horrendous offensively in the Tournament and was an overrated defender his entire career, yet he was considered one of the defensive stoppers on the team and was played in that role. Odom should have been a bench player on the team, Amare would have been much more effective offensively and with Duncan in the paint next to him his defense wouldn't have been a problem, he actually would have been better defensively in this case because he's a better shotblocker than Odom and it would have kept teams from going inside as much as they did.

For as bad as people make Iverson out to be defensively, Marbury was far worse in the Tournament. Wade, LeBron and Iverson defending the perimeter would have caused more turnovers and more fastbreak opportunities, all 3 are great fastbreak players along with Amare. This Team USA didn't get out on the break nearly as much as they have since then, and it's because they couldn't create enough turnovers with their defense.

The team also needed more outside shooting, which was a flaw of the roster. Iverson's draw and kick game was on point in the Tournament, getting open looks for guys that just weren't hitting their shots.

On top of that, the entire team had trouble adjusting to International play and rules, which were even alittle more different than they are now (They have since widened the lane for example). As pointed out, Duncan struggled with officiating in the Tournament and was in foul trouble at times, it took away alot of his aggressiveness in the paint. Simply put, Brown tried to play the NBA game in International play, with a slower pace than they should have played and didn't take advantage of the teams strengths while playing veterans that were clearly inferior players to the younger guys on the team.

Another thing already pointed out was the time the team had before the Tournament to develop chemistry was extremely short and given that there were pieces that didn't fit together, one ballhog selfish player screwing up the offensive chemistry, no sharpshooters to spread the floor and better players on the bench than players than were starting they needed all the time they could get to figure out how to play together.

Also, that Argentina team was at it's peak. Ginobili, Nocioni, Scola etc. were all much younger and extremely motivated to knock off Team USA. That entire field in that Tournament was extremely frustrated by years of being pounded by the USA team, they were simply fed up with it. Every team treated that matchup with the US team as the Gold Medal game and took the matchup personally. In the years after I think teams have had more faith in their ability to win the Tournament and weren't focused solely on upsetting Team USA because they had seen it done and were more confident they could do it. The desperation was actually a better strategy than the one they have today, where they believe they can matchup with Team USA and win.

In was the perfect storm basically. Team USA didn't send their best players, didn't have the right mix of players, didn't have the same time to prepare, didn't have the cohesiveness other teams had built with years of playing together, didn't use their best lineups or rotation, had one blackhole player disrupting the flow of the offense, a stubborn Coach that didn't adjust, a few players that didn't adjust to the International style of play, a couple guys that shot the ball worse than they normally do, played against extremely hungry and motivated teams that would have been fine with losing every other game as long as they beat Team USA, another great team with NBA players at their peak as a team and Team USA just wasn't as disciplined as they needed to be to get it done. In the end, teams wanted to beat Team USA more than that particular USA Team wanted to win the Gold and they just got outplayed, out-coached and out-hustled by hungrier teams that wanted it more.
Very well stated.

[kentatm]

You tried to blame Larry Brown for the losses, because he didn't play "the younger guys", implying if he did that they would have won gold.

But those same "younger guys", 2 years later (when they were 2 years older) could not win gold in 2006.

So basically what you are saying is total and complete BULLSHIT.

You are a delusional individual.


:rolleyes:

yep, you still a dumb ass troll

[Xiao Yao You]

They were too young. They went from picking the best guys in 92 to slowly going with the most hyped guys over time not the best team. AI, Marbury and Carmelo aren't the guys you want to be building a team around and Larry Brown and that roster were ill fit for each other.

[steve]

I wish people wouldn't include Iverson in the discussion of players who shouldn't have been on the '04 team or somehow contributed to the reason they were underwhelming. He was one of the two players who should've been on the Olympic this year and he proved it a year before in the FIBA Americas by being one of the top players on the team. When the top US players were finding reasons to back out of the Olympics in '04, Iverson stood steadfast and lived up to his commit to play.

[rmt]

The team was poorly constructed - seems like they wanted to sell jerseys instead of putting together a team. Too many sophomores with little experience - Lebron, Wade, Carmelo and NO ONE with a great jump shot. Ray Allen would have done wonders for this team.

Don't think Larry Brown was the right kind of coach for this type of team as he doesn't suffer fools gladly. That together with the prima donna personalities and Brown's emphasis on defense (which is not something that a team that's thrown together can excel at) probably caused a lot of friction. Popovich, who is more of a people-person, would have been a better choice as head coach for this bunch.

Duncan, for whatever reason, got called for a lot of fouls and never adjusted. As much of a TD fan as I am, he gets too whiny when things don't go his way. I disagree with the previous poster who said that he didn't care. IMO, he did (after all, he grew up hoping to swim in the Olympics) but he let the fouls bother him too much and affect his game - unacceptable for a professional of his calibre.

Finally, Argentina did a fantastic job and epitomized everything about a team that the 04 USA team didn't. Great team chemistry, unselfishness, years and years of playing with each other. Ginobili was superb and thoroughly deserved the MVP.

[stephanieg]

They didn't get undetectable PEDs yet.

[Buzissa]

1 - Zone defense killed them. The team had no shooters. Iverson, Marbury and Jefferson played a lot of minutes together, so you get the picture. Jefferson would brick every open shot he had, it was ridiculous.
2 - Duncan was constantly in foul trouble. He was clearly the best player in the team.
Mostly this.

About the 2003 draft trio: They were not good enough at the time to contribute significantly. Carmelo barely played, while in 2006 he was US best player in the World Championship. Wade developed a lot in the next two years. Watch the games and compare his performances in those Olympics with 2006 NBA Finals or 2006 FIBA WC. You would be amazed. LeBron only started to be effective in international play in Beijing.

[dude77]

May I ask what type of posts this response was gauged toward? In my opinion, some people have been off base by claiming the '04 team was a bunch of thugs, but most other folks seemed to have agreed that the USA did not send their best in '04 and of their starters, two of them were not renown for their ability to play within a team construct, even if they did hold a lot of national pride. As a result, they were defeated fairly and squarely. I'm not sure I've seen many posts of people arguing otherwise.

to all the posts making excuses instead of giving credit to the teams that beat them .. I haven't seen one person give credit to those teams(correct me if I'm wrong) .. they got beat by 3 teams and got blown out by puerto rico .. it wasn't some random one time loss at the buzzer .. they showed themselves to be a clearly inferior team to the field in that olympics ..

saying 'we didn't send our best players' makes the person look like a sore loser .. if they had won with that same team, y'all would have been talking about how great team usa is and how these international teams are just always inferior ..

granted they were young, but they had wade, james, anthony, duncan, stoudemire, and a veteran iverson .. 3 losses with that squad ? give me a break ..

I have a feeling no matter what, any time a usa team loses, you all will make some type of excuse instead of giving credit to the winner for being the BETTER TEAM(S) which they were in 2004

yeah an nba level team not only got beaten but embarrassed in a tournament .. butthurt ? .. oh well .. that's what happened .. fk the excuses

[FKAri]

to all the posts making excuses instead of giving credit to the teams that beat them .. I haven't seen one person give credit to those teams(correct me if I'm wrong) .. they got beat by 3 teams and got blown out by puerto rico .. it wasn't some random one time loss at the buzzer .. they showed themselves to be a clearly inferior team to the field in that olympics ..

saying 'we didn't send our best players' makes the person look like a sore loser .. if they had won with that same team, y'all would have been talking about how great team usa is and how these international teams are just always inferior ..

granted they were young, but they had wade, james, anthony, duncan, stoudemire, and a veteran iverson .. 3 losses with that squad ? give me a break ..

I have a feeling no matter what, any time a usa team loses, you all will make some type of excuse instead of giving credit to the winner for being the BETTER TEAM(S) which they were in 2004

yeah an nba level team not only got beaten but embarrassed in a tournament .. butthurt ? .. oh well .. that's what happened .. fk the excuses

I agree and my thread title doesn't reflect that I respect international teams tremendously.

[thelucifer69]

Larry Brown on Olympics 2004

[QUOTE]
Tim never got to play in the Olympics; he fouled out in every game. People forget, that team that qualified, we had Argentina by 37 points at halftime (in Olympic qualifying). The team we went to the Olympics with wasn

[jl1718]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/buckharvey/2012/07/duncan-as-an-olympic-bird/

[rmt]

to all the posts making excuses instead of giving credit to the teams that beat them .. I haven't seen one person give credit to those teams(correct me if I'm wrong) .. they got beat by 3 teams and got blown out by puerto rico .. it wasn't some random one time loss at the buzzer .. they showed themselves to be a clearly inferior team to the field in that olympics ..

saying 'we didn't send our best players' makes the person look like a sore loser .. if they had won with that same team, y'all would have been talking about how great team usa is and how these international teams are just always inferior ..

granted they were young, but they had wade, james, anthony, duncan, stoudemire, and a veteran iverson .. 3 losses with that squad ? give me a break ..

I have a feeling no matter what, any time a usa team loses, you all will make some type of excuse instead of giving credit to the winner for being the BETTER TEAM(S) which they were in 2004

yeah an nba level team not only got beaten but embarrassed in a tournament .. butthurt ? .. oh well .. that's what happened .. fk the excuses

Credit given here:


Finally, Argentina did a fantastic job and epitomized everything about a team that the 04 USA team didn't. Great team chemistry, unselfishness, years and years of playing with each other. Ginobili was superb and thoroughly deserved the MVP.

[mr beast]

i remember watching the 2004 olympics

in short

they had no outside shooting

they struggled badly against zone

[tmacattack33]

1. No real PG's on the team
2. Iverson and Marbury paired up is a terrible idea, especially on defense where both are too short
3. Some of the dudes were just too young (Melo, Bron) and Larry Brown didn't even give them many minutes so wtf was the point of having them on the team in the first place?

[kentatm]

1. No real PG's on the team
2. Iverson and Marbury paired up is a terrible idea, especially on defense where both are too short
3. Some of the dudes were just too young (Melo, Bron) and Larry Brown didn't even give them many minutes so wtf was the point of having them on the team in the first place?


Nike wanted to set up a Redeem Team narrative? :confusedshrug:

[Rake2204]

to all the posts making excuses instead of giving credit to the teams that beat them .. I haven't seen one person give credit to those teams(correct me if I'm wrong) .. they got beat by 3 teams and got blown out by puerto rico .. it wasn't some random one time loss at the buzzer .. they showed themselves to be a clearly inferior team to the field in that olympics ..

saying 'we didn't send our best players' makes the person look like a sore loser .. if they had won with that same team, y'all would have been talking about how great team usa is and how these international teams are just always inferior ..

granted they were young, but they had wade, james, anthony, duncan, stoudemire, and a veteran iverson .. 3 losses with that squad ? give me a break ..

I have a feeling no matter what, any time a usa team loses, you all will make some type of excuse instead of giving credit to the winner for being the BETTER TEAM(S) which they were in 2004

yeah an nba level team not only got beaten but embarrassed in a tournament .. butthurt ? .. oh well .. that's what happened .. fk the excuses
I'll have to go comb through this thread again, but it seems like I recall a number of folks citing the ability, teamwork, and will of the opposition.

With that said, while acknowledging I don't have any vested emotional interest in the USA's failure in '04, I don't think the reason the country came up short is as simple as just saying, "Other teams were better." Well I mean, I guess it depends upon whether the question we're working with is, "Why did the 2004 roster lose?" or "Why did the USA struggle in 2004?" If the question is the former, then the answer is other teams were better. If the question is the latter (which I thought is what the original poster was asking) I think the answer is the USA's chosen roster was vastly inferior to what they were capable of throwing out there.

As I mentioned in another post, beyond Tim Duncan and Allen Iverson, it can be argued the USA passed up the next 17 in line (accounting for each American member of the 2004 All-NBA and All-Star teams that did not participate). So basically, the '04 team featured a star who struggled with ever-lasting foul trouble in international play (Duncan), a star who loved volume shooting at a mediocre percentage, four young stars-to-be who received very little opportunity (James, Anthony, Stoudemire, Wade), and then a series of good role players. So again, I feel it's completely valid to cite the lack of top talent on that USA team, particularly considering once the US put together a real Dream Team again in '08, they steam rolled the competition once more.

Using a horrible analogy, if the USA soccer team was able to defeat a Spanish club that had three starting lineups worth of top players decline a spot on their national team, as an American, would I still be happy about the victory? Sure. Would the USA have had to put together a great game to earn victory? Yep. Could the Spanish club largely full of 2nd and 3rd tier performers be held at fault for their poor play? Definitely. Would it make sense to cite the fact Spain had 95% of their star players decline a spot on the team when looking to discover why a powerhouse struggled so mightily against a team like USA? Absolutely.

[R.I.P.]

Team wasn

[dgaras]

look at the players argentina had then and how young they were. todays team would have fits too.

PG 4 Sanchez, Pepe 27 - 8 May 1977 1.93 m (6 ft 4 in)
[B]SG 5 Gin

[Euroleague]

Sorry, Olympic qualifier. But you get the jyst.

There is a huge difference in the level of FIBA Americas and FIBA World Cup.

[Euroleague]

Finally, Argentina did a fantastic job and epitomized everything about a team that the 04 USA team didn't. Great team chemistry, unselfishness, years and years of playing with each other. Ginobili was superb and thoroughly deserved the MVP.


There has never been an MVP award at the Olympics. Seriously, how old are you?

[kobron23]

There has never been an MVP award at the Olympics. Seriously, how old are you?

yah ginobili makes you mad dont he? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Eat Like A Bosh]

For some reason they weren't able to get their best players to participate.

Here is the 04 roster:
Allen Iverson
Marbury
Wade
LeBron
Melo
Boozer
Okafor
Marion
Amare Stoudemire
Tim Duncan
Lamar Odom
Richard Jefferson

Head Coach: Larry Brown
That explains all.

I'm sure they would've been a lot better if they had guys like Kidd, Kobe, KG, Shaq, T-Mac, JO, Ray, Carter instead.

[rmt]

There has never been an MVP award at the Olympics. Seriously, how old are you?

Unofficial MVP. What does age have to do with anything (including dumb statements like mine :lol ) - I'm 49.

[Y2Gezee]

Larry Brown is the reason. He couldn't adjust to the int game (huge problem), and didn't use all if his resources correctly. Then in true Larry Brown fashion started making excuses about rules, and the players he had.

Benched Lebron and Carmelo. Lebron was awful, but carmelo along with Duncan was a leading scorer in the prelims, and arguably their best shooter, but Brown couldn't find a fit for him and opted for more RJ.

Not to say they would've won it with more Melo, but he displayed ability to help in. areas of weakness and he had previous international experience. The biggest problem was definitely the talent, but we still had more talent than everyone else.
They weren't prepared or utilized well

[FreezingTsmoove]

There is a huge difference in the level of FIBA Americas and FIBA World Cup.

no there isn't, how old are you 6?

[Kiddlovesnets]

You have a backcourt with two top 3 cancers in NBA, Allen Iverson and Stephen Marbury.
:lol

[LakersForlife]

lol at people blaming AI.he was the only one playing hard the others were meh

[SourPatchKids]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujg9YxCJS58