Curtis Mayfield is the greatest songwriter ever.

[L.Kizzle]

http://www.torrentsland.com/upload/preview/images/music/3/6/1/3bbf76d513a6732fa37f71bbbc570a34.jpg

First off all, today would have been the mans 70th birthday so happy birthday to you.

And second of all, he is the greatest songwriter in popular music (or in the Rock & Roll era.) Even better than Bob Dylan and those Beatle boys. His social conscious music he created was just as important as Bob Dylan's. For every "Blowing In The Wind" or "Rolling Stone" there is a "People Get Ready" or "Don't Worry If There's A Hell Below,We're All Gonna Go."

I'll put his discography against anyone's and he'll take them down. Neil Young, Paul Simon, Prince, Sly Stone, anyone.


(Don't Worry) If There's a Hell Below, We're All Going to Go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1xmXOP3lhM)
We People Who Are Darker Than Blue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm8lcTTDp0o)
Choice of Color (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNV1Y01xNk8)
Minsterel and Queen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB751HLIT5M)
We Gotta Have Peace (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZeKT0UctOQ)

[TheeBeast]

:applause:

Superfly is easily a top 10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJkjVfOcIxs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9tJc27IWKw

[JtotheIzzo]

I love Curtis Mayfield, but lets not get carried away.

[L.Kizzle]

I love Curtis Mayfield, but lets not get carried away.
Victim number one, prove why he is not?

[JtotheIzzo]

Victim number one, prove why he is not?

proving something of that nature is no easy task. I guess to do as you ask, I would have to cite popular opinion, critics reviews, my own personal taste, and most importantly your extreme bias and agenda driven (albeit entertaining) posting record.

All of those things would easily deconstruct the premise you stated in the OP.

However, the burden of proof is on you my young negro warrior. this is your thesis, and I am betting a pound note that you would find great difficulty (read: impossibility) defending it.

[L.Kizzle]

proving something of that nature is no easy task. I guess to do as you ask, I would have to cite popular opinion, critics reviews, my own personal taste, and most importantly your extreme bias and agenda driven (albeit entertaining) posting record.

All of those things would easily deconstruct the premise you stated in the OP.

However, the burden of proof is on you my young negro warrior. this is your thesis, and I am betting a pound note that you would find great difficulty (read: impossibility) defending it.
You can prove me wrong by stating first off, why he isn't the best. Then coming with an artist and some of their body of work.

I'll listen to the lyrics and see for myself.

[KevinNYC]

[QUOTE]Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world, and I

[TheeBeast]

proving something of that nature is no easy task. I guess to do as you ask, I would have to cite popular opinion, critics reviews, my own personal taste, and most importantly your extreme bias and agenda driven (albeit entertaining) posting record.

All of those things would easily deconstruct the premise you stated in the OP.

However, the burden of proof is on you my young negro warrior. this is your thesis, and I am betting a pound note that you would find great difficulty (read: impossibility) defending it.

:oldlol:

[Legend of Josh]

I say Sauce Money is the greatest song writer.

(joke, you know, ha ha)

[KevinNYC]

$1,000 Wedding -- Gram Parsons (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTyhcRtt1WY&feature=related)

[L.Kizzle]

$1,000 Wedding -- Gram Parsons (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTyhcRtt1WY&feature=related)
The Makings of You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UViLoH-yORw)

[East_Stone_Ya]

man....babyface is like 10x better!!!

[KevinNYC]

The Makings of You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UViLoH-yORw)


Having a hard time with the strings here.

Marie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vAi8-77ktU).....sad, sad song

[L.Kizzle]

Having a hard time with the strings here.

Marie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vAi8-77ktU).....sad, sad song
There you go.

So In Love (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peChXys7FcY)

[Legend of Josh]

Sauce Money wrote "I'll Be Missing You" performed by Diddy (in memory of BIG). So everyone can just bow down and admit Sauce Money is the greatest writer out there.

(I'm still joking here)

[L.Kizzle]

Sauce Money wrote "I'll Be Missing You" performed by Diddy (in memory of BIG). So everyone can just bow down and admit Sauce Money is the greatest writer out there.

(I'm still joking here)
I remember Sauce had that one track with Jay-Z on Master P's I Got The Hook-Up Soundtrack.

[TheeBeast]

Give It Up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2NTz1n-91k

[KevinNYC]

The Box it Came In -- Wanda Jackson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmPziMYc9JI)

[KevinNYC]

There you go.

So In Love (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peChXys7FcY)

I like that one....but more due to the singing.

[L.Kizzle]

The Box it Came In -- Wanda Jackson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmPziMYc9JI)
Marie was cool, I didn't care for that wedding song and this one is alright.

[L.Kizzle]

I like that one....but more due to the singing.
Or how about songs he wrote for others. Like this classic for his former bandmate Jerry Butler.

He Will Break Your Heart (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mseOWJ1rvKY)

[Legend of Josh]

I remember Sauce had that one track with Jay-Z on Master P's I Got The Hook-Up Soundtrack.

I have that whack album somewhere in my basement... haha, but here's a decent Sauce/Jay jam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0nWweY9zAg

[TheeBeast]

Freddy's Dead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECgBXkil7YI

Curtis Mayfield's lyrics brought social awareness to the ghetto streets, something that not many other soul artists have done (at least as good as he did).

[L.Kizzle]

Long Long Winter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwUpqbhU1Og)

:pimp:

[andgar923]

Sorry Kizzle.

I respect and dig Curtis, but most of the songs you're posting are just good not that great, and to be honest, most were rather generic. Shit that the Beatles were doing in their early albums.

Curtis aint better then Stevie, and I doubt he's better then Smokey.

[L.Kizzle]

Sorry Kizzle.

I respect and dig Curtis, but most of the songs you're posting are just good not that great, and to be honest, most were rather generic. Shit that the Beatles were doing in their early albums.

Curtis aint better then Stevie, and I doubt he's better then Smokey.
Lol, this isn't great?

Other Side of Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpsB0QBfMyk)

[TheeBeast]

Sorry Kizzle.

I respect and dig Curtis, but most of the songs you're posting are just good not that great, and to be honest, most were rather generic. Shit that the Beatles were doing in their early albums.

Curtis aint better then Stevie, and I doubt he's better then Smokey.

L.Kizzle is talking from a songwriting/lyrical standpoint.

Stevie Wonder can't be touched as a singer tho

[andgar923]

Lol, this isn't great?

Other Side of Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpsB0QBfMyk)

It's good, just don't listen to a great song... at least not lyrics wise.

The music is cool, but again... not great, and there's nothing wrong with that. He does have great music, but others have just as many great songs and more. It's not an insult to say that he isn't the GOAT.

I do think that he gets criminally underrated while average white artists get hailed. The white mainstream media always overlook many black artists only giving props to a select handful, unless some hipster dude wants to stand out and throw out a black artists for points. But that's for another thread.

[andgar923]

L.Kizzle is talking from a songwriting/lyrical standpoint.

Stevie Wonder can't be touched as a singer tho

I undertand that, and Stevie is better in that department as well.

Not that Stevie is vastly superior or that Curtis is vastly inferior to other writers. Outside some songs, the way his songs are formatted I don't get greatness. Lyrics alone don't make a song, there's other aspects to them, such as the harmony, the hooks, the melody, how lines and words are crafted, the uniqueness etc.etc.

[L.Kizzle]

It's good, just don't listen to a great song... at least not lyrics wise.

The music is cool, but again... not great, and there's nothing wrong with that. He does have great music, but others have just as many great songs and more. It's not an insult to say that he isn't the GOAT.

I do think that he gets criminally underrated while average white artists get hailed. The white mainstream media always overlook many black artists only giving props to a select handful, unless some hipster dude wants to stand out and throw out a black artists for points. But that's for another thread.
It's not even a white thing.

He's better than Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson (you said Smoke was better, Smoke is not nearly as deep as Curtis), Sly Stone, Sam Cooke, James Brown ect all great black songwriter who most put over Mayfield without a blink.

Bobby Womack is another criminally underrated brother in the singer/songwriter mold as is Willie Hutch and Joe Tex.

Curtis just writes great music, his messages are very deep and his love is strong and he can get you on the dance floor.

[TheeBeast]

What does race have to do with it?

Move On Up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z66wVo7uNw

Now that's universal :applause:

[andgar923]

It's not even a white thing.

He's better than Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson (you said Smoke was better, Smoke is not nearly as deep as Curtis), Sly Stone, Sam Cooke, James Brown ect all great black songwriter who most put over Mayfield without a blink.

Bobby Womack is another criminally underrated brother in the singer/songwriter mold as is Willie Hutch and Joe Tex.

Curtis just writes great music, his messages are very deep and his love is strong and he can get you on the dance floor.

I dunno man.... Curtis is dope, just don't agree with you.

I'll leave you with this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foLzP3qQoSY&feature=related

[L.Kizzle]

I dunno man.... Curtis is dope, just don't agree with you.

I'll leave you with this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foLzP3qQoSY&feature=related
Ahh, Baby Huey, one of Curtis Mayfields artist ...

[detroitkid816]

proving something of that nature is no easy task. I guess to do as you ask, I would have to cite popular opinion, critics reviews, my own personal taste, and most importantly your extreme bias and agenda driven (albeit entertaining) posting record.

All of those things would easily deconstruct the premise you stated in the OP.

However, the burden of proof is on you my young negro warrior. this is your thesis, and I am betting a pound note that you would find great difficulty (read: impossibility) defending it.
:roll: this isn't getting enough love

[ILLsmak]

You can prove me wrong by stating first off, why he isn't the best. Then coming with an artist and some of their body of work.

I'll listen to the lyrics and see for myself.

Van Morrison.

-Smak

[Godzuki]

alan menken :bowdown:

[Pointguard]

It's not even a white thing.

He's better than Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson (you said Smoke was better, Smoke is not nearly as deep as Curtis), Sly Stone, Sam Cooke, James Brown ect all great black songwriter who most put over Mayfield without a blink.

Bobby Womack is another criminally underrated brother in the singer/songwriter mold as is Willie Hutch and Joe Tex.

Curtis just writes great music, his messages are very deep and his love is strong and he can get you on the dance floor.
I like Smokey better. Universal and timeless is, at least, equivalent to deep, while being more impressive. They will play Smokey in a hundred years from now. His phrasing and hook is great. He falls in plain love and has a lot of healing in his music. While I give Curtis respect, he is moreso mental than he is poetic, and music, by nature, will always sway you more than convince you. And Smoke could pull you in with a woman, a man, a man group or a woman group singing the poetics. He saw the layers and value of the voice with music. People who don't understand English sing Smokey because his melodic flow is beyond the language. He was really complete.

[L.Kizzle]

I like Smokey better. Universal and timeless is, at least, equivalent to deep, while being more impressive. They will play Smokey in a hundred years from now. His phrasing and hook is great. He falls in plain love and has a lot of healing in his music. While I give Curtis respect, he is moreso mental than he is poetic, and music, by nature, will always sway you more than convince you. And Smoke could pull you in with a woman, a man, a man group or a woman group singing the poetics. He saw the layers and value of the voice with music. People who don't understand English sing Smokey because his melodic flow is beyond the language. He was really complete.
Smoke is my man too, but give me a Smokey love ballad and I can give you a Curtis one.

You telling me these ain't timeless?

The Staple Singers: Let's Do It Again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsTLszNDUOM)
Aretha Franklin: Something He Can Feel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCEgTO3x7qs)

[SilkkTheShocker]

I have that whack album somewhere in my basement... haha, but here's a decent Sauce/Jay jam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0nWweY9zAg

Sauce and Jay go hard as **** on this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYjoLPsyRb0

From the Belly soundtrack

[Smoke117]

In your opinion he is the greatest songwriter, but this is a subjective topic and you can't say: "So and so is the greatest songwriter ever" and have it be a fact. In my opinion, Neil Young is the greatest songwriter ever, so I would disagree with you. See how that works?

[L.Kizzle]

Hey did you know that you can like someone without saying they are the greatest ever?

A. You can't prove it.
B. He isn't.
C. It's all opinion.

You're trying to start an argument when you just want to talk about him.
Of course it's all opinion.

[KevinNYC]

Marie was cool, I didn't care for that wedding song and this one is alright.

Dude, he not only left her, he took her wedding dress too and gave it to another woman!

Marie was the only Townes song of the three I posted. Best song about poverty that I know.

However, $1000 wedding is a masterpiece.

In terms of greatest songwriters, I think Chuck Berry is vastly underrated. Very, very few have matched words to melody better. His lyrics just swing. Memphis, Tennesee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5ezeUM6c74). What pop song tops that?

Also, if you're going to be the greatest, you're going to have to go up against Hank Williams and that's a tough row to hoe. Here's Al Green covering him (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIdj5uFung4)

[L.Kizzle]

People Get Ready (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twjJC3RYR98)

He also had probably the most influence in a bubbling new genre from the Islands, Reggae music.

His melodies, guitar playing and harmonies with the Impressions gave it it's birth along with Ska and Calypso.

[KevinNYC]

People Get Ready (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twjJC3RYR98)

He also had probably the most influence in a bubbling new genre from the Islands, Reggae music.

His melodies, guitar playing and harmonies with the Impressions gave it it's birth along with Ska and Calypso.

Mayfield may have had an individual influence on reggae, but Jamaican music goes back to American Jazz and Rock n Roll and R+B (http://niceup.com/history/ja_music_59-73.html). That is reggae would have happened with Curtis Mayfield. Motown was big throughout Jamaica. Now Bob Marley was specifically a fan of The Impressions, but it's a mistake to say the Bob Marley is all of reggae.. Apparently Jimmy Cliff was more of an Otis Redding fan.

[Jax]

Sam Cooke>

[L.Kizzle]

Mayfield may have had an individual influence on reggae, but Jamaican music goes back to American Jazz and Rock n Roll and R+B (http://niceup.com/history/ja_music_59-73.html). That is reggae would have happened with Curtis Mayfield. Motown was big throughout Jamaica. Now Bob Marley was specifically a fan of The Impressions, but it's a mistake to say the Bob Marley is all of reggae.. Apparently Jimmy Cliff was more of an Otis Redding fan.
Listen to this 1962 track, the beginnings of reggae.


The Impressions: I'm The One Who Loves You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGNkcYwTywQ)


A minute mark 1:32 that is some straight reggae organ chords.

[KevinNYC]

Listen to this 1962 track, the beginnings of reggae.


The Impressions: I'm The One Who Loves You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGNkcYwTywQ)


A minute mark 1:32 that is some straight reggae organ chords.

I don't hear it. I listened the first time without focusing on 1:32. Do you mean the little "stabs" going on in the background. That sounds like reggae guitar to me, however the foreground sounds like horns at that point.

Also I forgot that Curtis Mayfield had his accident in Brooklyn.

[L.Kizzle]

Curtis Mayfield: Never Stop Loving Me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXihjTeOaLs)

[L.Kizzle]

Sam Cooke>
What are your top five Cooke pinned tunes?