Sarunas Jasikevicius: Refs Favor Team USA

[Euroleague]

http://www.talkbasket.net/7151-jasikevicius-travelling-must-be-called-whether-it-s-petrauskas-or-kobe-bryant.html

Jasikevicius: Traveling must be called, whether it's Petrauskas or Kobe Bryant

08/04/2012 21:42 TalkBasket Olympic Staff

http://www.talkbasket.net/images/resized/images/stories/players/jasikevicius_sarunas1_250_173.jpg

Lithuania gave USA their best test so far in the Olympics, losing 94-99. Veteran point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius, who drowned USA in 2004, and was one shot away from beating the Americans in 2000, shared his thoughts about the game.

Traveling violation is usually a topic discussed when USA plays in international tournaments. The way the rule is interpreted in FIBA tournaments and the NBA is different. And it was frustrating for Saras, to see referees not calling traveling on American players, even when it was obvious.

"I don't get it. There are FIBA rules, if a player takes the ball and runs two meters, traveling must be called," he said. "Maybe the rules will be changed in the future, but at the moment that's traveling.

"I'm not saying that they [referees] were indulgent towards Americans, or that we lost [the game] due to the referees' fault. Absolutely not. Simply, there are rules according to which the game must be whistled. It doesn't matter if it's Petrauskas (a common surname in Lithuania) or Kobe Bryant running."

Saras also commented on the way Lithuania fulfilled their game-plan: "We did more or less everything that we planned in both offense and defense. We talked about it in the locker room, that it sounds funny when we say that we didn't defend bad, while they scored 100 points. They [Americans] leave many open corridors on defense and take risks, that's why we scored 94 points.

"The game was successful, but there are no moral wins in sports, you either win or lose. I don't think it was our best game in the Olympics. We played better against Nigeria. USA is an opponent against which it is easier to play, because you have nothing to lose. I think we played solid for 40 minutes."

[niko]

FIBA refereeing is total ass. I can't imagine any game where the losing team thinks the referring was great.

[Punpun]

>America played like ass
>Meanwhile Lithuania continues getting raped by everybody else
>Be sore lsoer and blame the ref

:yaohappy:

[niko]

http://www.talkbasket.net/7151-jasikevicius-travelling-must-be-called-whether-it-s-petrauskas-or-kobe-bryant.html

Jasikevicius: Travelling must be called whether it's Petrauskas or Kobe Bryant

08/04/2012 21:42 TalkBasket Olympic Staff

http://www.talkbasket.net/images/resized/images/stories/players/jasikevicius_sarunas1_250_173.jpg

Lithuania gave USA their best test so far in the Olympics, losing 94-99. Veteran point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius, who drowned USA in 2004, and was one shot away from beating the Americans in 2000, shared his thoughts about the game.

Traveling violation is usually a topic discussed when USA plays in international tournaments. The way the rule is interpreted in FIBA tournaments and the NBA is different. And it was frustrating for Saras, to see referees not calling traveling on American players, even when it was obvious.

"I don't get it. There are FIBA rules, if a player takes the ball and runs two meters, traveling must be called," he said. "Maybe the rules will be changed in the future, but at the moment that's traveling.

"I'm not saying that they [referees] were indulgent towards Americans, or that we lost [the game] due to the referees' fault. Absolutely not. Simply there are rules according which the game must be whistled, it doesn't matter if it's Petrauskas (a common surname in Lithuania) or Kobe Bryant running."

Saras also commented on the way Lithuania fulfilled their gameplan: "We did more or lesss everything that we've planned in both offence and defence. We talked in the locker room that it sounds funny when we say that we defended not bad while they scored 100 points. They [Americans] leave many corridors in defence and take risks, that's why we scored 94 points.

"The game was successful but there are no moral wins in sports, you wither win or lose. I don't think it was our best game in the Olympics. We played better against Nigeria. USA is an opponent against which it is easier to play because you have nothing to lose. I think we playing solid for 40 minutes."

This article is garbage. He says it had nothing to do with it being americans but the person writing the article says he thinks americans get favorable calls.

[ashlar]

No agenda here folks.

[Euroleague]

FIBA refereeing is total ass. I can't imagine any game where the losing team thinks the referring was great.

Strange, since you have said about 100 times in this forum that the refs in the Greece - Nigeria game didn't make any mistakes.

:rolleyes:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Can we just have on big Euroleague thread? Too many of these crap threads already.

[Euroleague]

This article is garbage. He says it had nothing to do with it being americans but the person writing the article says he thinks americans get favorable calls.

He said Team USA is favored by the refs. God damn you are a moron.

[Euroleague]

Can we just have on big Euroleague thread? Too many of these crap threads already.

This does not have a damn thing to do with the Euroleague.

[ashlar]

This does not have a damn thing to do with the Euroleague.

I think he meant you. Euroleague the moron.

[Rake2204]

What precise sort of play is Jasikevicius referring when he says:


"I don't get it. There are FIBA rules, if a player takes the ball and runs two meters, traveling must be called," he said. "Maybe the rules will be changed in the future, but at the moment that's traveling.

Is he talking about the initial moment a player catches the ball, suggesting they take off before beginning their dribble? That is my assumption of what is meant when he says "takes the ball", as in, "receives the ball". In that case, can I get some clarification from FIBA guys as to what the rule allows (preferably with a source so I can read up)? Does the process of dribbling have to begin as a person's moving? Or does the ball have to physically hit the floor?

[niko]

He said Team USA is favored by the refs. God damn you are a moron.
"I'm not saying that they [referees] were indulgent towards Americans, or that we lost [the game] due to the referees' fault. Absolutely not.

Read your own article dipshit.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I think he meant you. Euroleague the moron.

Yep. This board is being flooded with his threads. Lets just put all this s.hit in one big s.hitty thread.

[DCL]

"I don't get it. There are FIBA rules, if a player takes the ball and runs two meters, traveling must be called,"



wtf does distance have to do with travel? durant covers 2 meters in like one step.

[OmniStrife]

No matter...
Even the refs won't save USA from team Greece, right?

[Euroleague]

What precise sort of play is Jasikevicius referring when he says:



Is he talking about the initial moment a player catches the ball, suggesting they take off before beginning their dribble? That is my assumption of what is meant when he says "takes the ball", as in, "receives the ball". In that case, can I get some clarification from FIBA guys as to what the rule allows (preferably with a source so I can read up)? Does the process of dribbling have to begin as a person's moving? Or does the ball have to physically hit the floor?

Under FIBA rules, you must dribble before you put your foot down when making a move. And after catching the ball while moving, you only have 2 full steps before you have to be in the process of shooting the ball, with only one additional step allowed if you were moving mid stride while catching the ball.

You also are only allowed 2 steps........not 3 like in the NBA between dribbles.

However, none of these rules have been applied to Team USA since 2007. The last games USA played with these rules were the ending games of the 2006 World Championship.

Since then, Team USA gets to play by the NBA travel rules. The problem is no other team does, not even during the same games against the USA. Which means that Team USA has been given an unfair advantage in every game since 2007.

That's basically why Team USA has not lost since the 2006 game against Greece. Because they stopped making them play by the same travel rules as all other teams.

The refs also started letting USA carry the ball, which was not allowed prior to 2007.

[Euroleague]

"I'm not saying that they [referees] were indulgent towards Americans, or that we lost [the game] due to the referees' fault. Absolutely not.

Read your own article dipshit.



"I don't get it. There are FIBA rules, if a player takes the ball and runs two meters, traveling must be called," he said. "Maybe the rules will be changed in the future, but at the moment that's traveling.

Simply, there are rules according to which the game must be whistled. It doesn't matter if it's Petrauskas (a common surname in Lithuania) or Kobe Bryant running."


You are the moron that can't ****ing read.

[Euroleague]

wtf does distance have to do with travel? durant covers 2 meters in like one step.

One step in the NBA rules is usually a travel in the FIBA rules, but they no longer make Team USA abide by it.

[niko]

"I don't get it. There are FIBA rules, if a player takes the ball and runs two meters, traveling must be called," he said. "Maybe the rules will be changed in the future, but at the moment that's traveling.

Simply, there are rules according to which the game must be whistled. It doesn't matter if it's Petrauskas (a common surname in Lithuania) or Kobe Bryant running."


You are the moron that can't ****ing read.
He was speaking in generalities. You are making it an anti NBA thing. Because you are a biased jackass.

[Heavincent]

http://flagspot.net/images/g/gr.gif

Greece qualified to the 2012 Olympics Qualification Tournament. They made it through the hardest tournament to qualify through by far (FIBA EuroBasket).

They also beat Serbia (2nd at FIBA EuroBasket 2009, 4th At 2010 FIBA World Championship - despite the refs being against them) to qualify.

Greece will now qualify through the 2012 Olympics Qualification Tournament next summer and will be at the Olympics Basketball Tournament for the third straight time (2004, 2008, 2012).

Greece did this, despite only having their C national team at 2011 EuroBasket.

Now, for the 2012 Olympics, Greece will return such A national team players as Sofoklis Schortsanitis, Vassilis Spanoulis, Panos Vasilopoulos, and Georgios Printezis, as they have all committed for the 2012 Olympics.

Possibly, other A team players such as Loukas Mavrokefalidis, Theo Papaloukas, and Dimitris Diamantidis will also play. As their statements were that they will consider playing at the Olympics (after they have been criticized extremely hard throughout Greece over their terrible recent behavior). Mavrokefalidis was even suspended from Russian League and there has been talk of Diamantidis also being suspended from Greek League. So now they are "reconsidering".

So................................................ ............

Greece will be there with probably about 8-9 of its best players at the 2012 Olympics.

GET READY TEAM USA. Because Greece is coming.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6341265&postcount=1

Guess that didn't work out too well, huh? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Euroleague]

He was speaking in generalities. You are making it an anti NBA thing. Because you are a biased jackass.

Back to ignore list.

[Heavincent]

Hey Euroleague, any thoughts on Greece not even making the Olympics?

[niko]

Back to ignore list.
I've been on the ignore and banned list 27 straight times, i have to tell you i'm beginning to doubt they actually exist.

[TaLvsCuaL]

In my opinion this is a fact since the WC 2006 fiasco against Greece. They did not expect it after losing to Argentina in 2004.

I think after these failures they decided to change the team and take this kind of tournaments more seriously. I think they also pressured the FIBA to not be harmed in the adaptation to rules to which they are unaccustomed.

And I do not mean that they need refs favor to win, but what Saras says is true. Team USA are not playing under FIBA rules, they play under mixed rules between NBA rules and FIBA rules. And that's an advantage that other teams lack.

[Hittin_Shots]

Don't matter no how, ingles gonna drop 50 and knock USA out first knockout game...


:lol

[Rake2204]

Under FIBA rules, you must dribble before you put your foot down when making a move. And after catching the ball while moving, you only have 2 full steps before you have to be in the process of shooting the ball, with only one additional step allowed if you were moving mid stride while catching the ball.

You also are only allowed 2 steps........not 3 like in the NBA between dribbles.

When you say, "You also are only allowed 2 steps........not 3 like in the NBA between dribbles", are you referring to a live dribble situation? As in, if I'm bouncing the ball, I can only take two steps in between each bounce? This seems extremely restricting and likely terribly difficult to officiate (how does one effectively count sprinting steps on the fly when so much else must be regulated as well?) Further, what constitutes "between dribbles"? Does "between" begin the moment the ball is out of a player's hand then end the moment it touches a player's hand? If so, again, do you not believe this would be terribly difficult for an official to police?

I also feel this would eliminate the ability to make shuffling moves, hesitation moves, or anything that involves short, small, quick steps. To paint a hypothetical situation, if I'm dribbling very slowly while not being defended closely, and I release my waist high dribble and make a random quick-step, in-place shuffling movement (more than two steps worth), that'd be a travel? I have never, at any point of my life, been taught there was a limit as to how many steps I could take or what kind of steps I could take, when dribbling a basketball.

To meet you half way, I've been taught players cannot "carry" the ball when running (i.e. dribbling once then placing the hand on the side or nearly underneath the ball when it comes back upward) but that seems much different than the steps thing you're referring to. Unless of course, you're referring to the steps allowed between a dribble and a shot (as opposed to a dribble and a dribble, as I interpreted your initial statement). Even then, the steps allowed between a dribble and finish in the USA is two, though obviously the NBA at times has allowed that to be stretched.

[Rooster]

Saras still bitter about his blip in the radar screen NBA career. :oldlol: He should be glad that those FIBA refs are calling fouls whenever they pressure him. Those refs won't even Team USA pressure or breath on him. They are calling fouls as soon as them Lithuanian players get pressured on the perimeter. :facepalm It's ridiculous.

[Nick Young]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Euroscrub is mad

[Droid101]

He said Team USA is favored by the refs. God damn you are a moron.
Reading comprehension, how does that work?

"I'm not saying that they [referees] were indulgent towards Americans, or that we lost [the game] due to the referees' fault. Absolutely not."

Seriously, you are a goddamn moron.

[Blue&Orange]

This does not have a damn thing to do with the Euroleague.

I think he meant you. Euroleague the moron.

Instant classic.

[Droid101]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6341265&postcount=1

Guess that didn't work out too well, huh? :roll: :roll: :roll:
:applause:

He still hasn't responded to a single one of these yet. I love it.

[iznogood]

first, let me say that i haven't seen the usa : lithuania game and also i'm not trying to take sides.
i'm a referee under fiba rules and i watch tons of basketball - different age categories and level of competition.
imho, for many years the referees in fiba are officiating the games closer to the rules of the nba than to those written in fiba rulebook. in my experience this gets worse when level of competition increases. i'm not trying to say that fiba rules are better or worse then the nba rules, but this makes a problem since different referees tend to make different interpretation of the rulebook, which (the rulebook) hasn't changed.

it is not true that 3 steps in between the dribble are not allowed - the rulebook does not speak about the maximum number of steps that is allowed between the dribbles and you see people taking 3 steps between dribbles all the time while changing dribble hands, for example on the fast break. you will also often see people making 3 steps on the simple crossover and gain advantage of not taking another dribble. this would've been called traveling 10 years ago and the rules haven't changed to allow that move.

another rule that gets different interpretation all the time is when the pivot foot is established. the rules are very clear about that - when a player catches the ball standing on one foot, this foot will be his pivot foot, meaning that the ball needs to hit the floor before or at least at the same time the pivot foot is moved. strictly by the rulebook, this takes away the cross step in the direction opposite of the pivot foot every time the player catches the ball with only one of his feet on the floor.
but when you watch fiba games at high level you will notice that on the perimeter, the players are allowed to make a cross step in the opposite direction of the pivot foot all the time, a lot of the times even after the jab step, which clearly indicates the pivot foot (if someone was to make a case that the pivot foot is not established on the one foot catch).
for some reason i don't understand the traveling in that same situation will get called every time this happens on the low post. this is really absurd and i this type of calls are often inconsistent during the same game.
another thing is moving one leg after a jump stop - you will notice that this gets called when a player hesitates on both legs and makes a move after a while and usually not get called when a player executes it as a legit move, which is ridiculous.

that's why imo the fiba games will often be called inconsistently - because the game would become unwatchable if the referees were to call the game by the book.

[Droid101]

first, let me say that i haven't seen the usa : lithuania game and also i'm not trying to take sides.
i'm a referee under fiba rules and i watch tons of basketball - different age categories and level of competition.
imho, for many years the referees in fiba are officiating the games closer to the rules of the nba than to those written in fiba rulebook. in my experience this gets worse when level of competition increases. i'm not trying to say that fiba rules are better or worse then the nba rules, but this makes a problem since different referees tend to make different interpretation of the rulebook, which (the rulebook) hasn't changed.

it is not true that 3 steps in between the dribble are not allowed - the rulebook does not speak about the maximum number of steps that is allowed between the dribbles and you see people taking 3 steps between dribbles all the time while changing dribble hands, for example on the fast break. you will also often see people making 3 steps on the simple crossover and gain advantage of not taking another dribble. this would've been called traveling 10 years ago and the rules haven't changed to allow that move.

another rule that gets different interpretation all the time is when the pivot foot is established. the rules are very clear about that - when a player catches the ball standing on one foot, this foot will be his pivot foot, meaning that the ball needs to hit the floor before or at least at the same time the pivot foot is moved. strictly by the rulebook, this takes away the cross step in the direction opposite of the pivot foot every time the player catches the ball with only one of his feet on the floor.
but when you watch fiba games at high level you will notice that on the perimeter, the players are allowed to make a cross step in the opposite direction of the pivot foot all the time, a lot of the times even after the jab step, which clearly indicates the pivot foot (if someone was to make a case that the pivot foot is not established on the one foot catch).
for some reason i don't understand the traveling in that same situation will get called every time this happens on the low post. this is really absurd and i this type of calls are often inconsistent during the same game.
another thing is moving one leg after a jump stop - you will notice that this gets called when a player hesitates on both legs and makes a move after a while and usually not get called when a player executes it as a legit move, which is ridiculous.

that's why imo the fiba games will often be called inconsistently - because the game would become unwatchable if the referees were to call the game by the book.
Great first post. :applause: Bravo

[Euroleague]

When you say, "You also are only allowed 2 steps........not 3 like in the NBA between dribbles", are you referring to a live dribble situation? As in, if I'm bouncing the ball, I can only take two steps in between each bounce? This seems extremely restricting and likely terribly difficult to officiate (how does one effectively count sprinting steps on the fly when so much else must be regulated as well?) Further, what constitutes "between dribbles"? Does "between" begin the moment the ball is out of a player's hand then end the moment it touches a player's hand? If so, again, do you not believe this would be terribly difficult for an official to police?

I also feel this would eliminate the ability to make shuffling moves, hesitation moves, or anything that involves short, small, quick steps. To paint a hypothetical situation, if I'm dribbling very slowly while not being defended closely, and I release my waist high dribble and make a random quick-step, in-place shuffling movement (more than two steps worth), that'd be a travel? I have never, at any point of my life, been taught there was a limit as to how many steps I could take or what kind of steps I could take, when dribbling a basketball.

To meet you half way, I've been taught players cannot "carry" the ball when running (i.e. dribbling once then placing the hand on the side or nearly underneath the ball when it comes back upward) but that seems much different than the steps thing you're referring to. Unless of course, you're referring to the steps allowed between a dribble and a shot (as opposed to a dribble and a dribble, as I interpreted your initial statement). Even then, the steps allowed between a dribble and finish in the USA is two, though obviously the NBA at times has allowed that to be stretched.

Why do you think that almost every single player that played in both NBA and Euroleague in recent years had better stats in the NBA than they did in the Euroleague?

In the Euroleague, they are still using the original FIBA rules, and not the new ones that are being used since 2007 whenever Team USA plays.

[plowking]

In the article you posted it says he said that he thinks they aren't favoring the USA.

So why does your thread title say otherwise?

[Euroleague]

first, let me say that i haven't seen the usa : lithuania game and also i'm not trying to take sides.
i'm a referee under fiba rules and i watch tons of basketball - different age categories and level of competition.
imho, for many years the referees in fiba are officiating the games closer to the rules of the nba than to those written in fiba rulebook. in my experience this gets worse when level of competition increases. i'm not trying to say that fiba rules are better or worse then the nba rules, but this makes a problem since different referees tend to make different interpretation of the rulebook, which (the rulebook) hasn't changed.

it is not true that 3 steps in between the dribble are not allowed - the rulebook does not speak about the maximum number of steps that is allowed between the dribbles and you see people taking 3 steps between dribbles all the time while changing dribble hands, for example on the fast break. you will also often see people making 3 steps on the simple crossover and gain advantage of not taking another dribble. this would've been called traveling 10 years ago and the rules haven't changed to allow that move.

another rule that gets different interpretation all the time is when the pivot foot is established. the rules are very clear about that - when a player catches the ball standing on one foot, this foot will be his pivot foot, meaning that the ball needs to hit the floor before or at least at the same time the pivot foot is moved. strictly by the rulebook, this takes away the cross step in the direction opposite of the pivot foot every time the player catches the ball with only one of his feet on the floor.
but when you watch fiba games at high level you will notice that on the perimeter, the players are allowed to make a cross step in the opposite direction of the pivot foot all the time, a lot of the times even after the jab step, which clearly indicates the pivot foot (if someone was to make a case that the pivot foot is not established on the one foot catch).
for some reason i don't understand the traveling in that same situation will get called every time this happens on the low post. this is really absurd and i this type of calls are often inconsistent during the same game.
another thing is moving one leg after a jump stop - you will notice that this gets called when a player hesitates on both legs and makes a move after a while and usually not get called when a player executes it as a legit move, which is ridiculous.

that's why imo the fiba games will often be called inconsistently - because the game would become unwatchable if the referees were to call the game by the book.

You are talking about the new FIBA rules, and not the old ones. That's the whole problem and the point Saras is trying to make.

[Euroleague]

In the article you posted it says he said that he thinks they aren't favoring the USA.

So why does your thread title say otherwise?

He said Kobe was being reffed differently. You are a ****ing moron.

[plowking]

He said Kobe was being reffed differently. You are a ****ing moron.

No he didn't. He said it doesn't matter if its Kobe Bryant, everyone should be reffed the same.

He literally says that he doesn't think the refs were the problem, or that they favored anyone. There is a direct quote from him. Meaning he said it. Not implying something like you.

[iznogood]

You are talking about the new FIBA rules, and not the old ones. That's the whole problem and the point Saras is trying to make.
could you be more specific about the new and the old rules? i don't understand what do you mean. i was referring to the current fiba rulebook, which has not had any major changes in the parts i was referring to in more then a decade. in my opinion the "nba" interpretation happens all the time. especially in the euroleague and not only on the international competitions when the usa is playing.

[Rake2204]

Why do you think that almost every single player that played in both NBA and Euroleague in recent years had better stats in the NBA than they did in the Euroleague?

In the Euroleague, they are still using the original FIBA rules, and not the new ones that are being used since 2007 whenever Team USA plays.
I'm not actually very knowledgeable of the statistical comparison between those who have spent time in both Euroleague and NBA. I was just looking to clarify the "maximum of two steps between dribbles" remark, as I had never heard of such a thing before. I was looking for something similar to what iznogood posted, where he was able to cite his own FIBA officiating experience. That seems to get us headed in the right direction.

[Euroleague]

No he didn't. He said it doesn't matter if its Kobe Bryant, everyone should be reffed the same.

He literally says that he doesn't think the refs were the problem, or that they favored anyone. There is a direct quote from him. Meaning he said it. Not implying something like you.

OK, you go to the ignore list. I have no time to deal with retards.

[Colbertnation64]

OK, you go to the ignore list. I have no time to deal with retards.
You don't read your own posts?

[Droid101]

Why do you think that almost every single player that played in both NBA and Euroleague in recent years had better stats in the NBA than they did in the Euroleague?

Because the games are 8 minutes longer?

Seriously, your trolling knows no bounds. Players routinely shoot better in Euroleagues because the defense is atrocious. Luis Scola shot over 60% for an entire season in Euroleague, and never touched that number in the States.

Ignored.

[SilkkTheShocker]

OP lost his virginity at a petting zoo

[Euroleague]

could you be more specific about the new and the old rules? i don't understand what do you mean. i was referring to the current fiba rulebook, which has not had any major changes in the parts i was referring to in more then a decade. in my opinion the "nba" interpretation happens all the time. especially in the euroleague and not only on the international competitions when the usa is playing.

FIBA changed the rules of the World Cup and the Olympics for games in which Team USA plays.

For example, prior to the 2008 Olympics, the refs were all told that Team USA would play under NBA rules, but all other teams under FIBA rules, even the teams playing against USA.

So, think of it this way.

Greece - USA game in 2006 was under the old FIBA rules.

Every game from 2008 Olympics, 2010 World Basketball Cup, and 2012 Olympics is under the new rules.

The rules work as Team USA is allowed to travel, dribble, palm the ball, etc. under the same rules as in the NBA. Other teams, even their opponents are not.

Also, FIBA changed the rules because the NBA does not allow hand checking. So that international teams are not allowed to hand check against Team USA. However, Team USA IS allowed to hand check.

The reasoning is that the opponents of Team USA are used to hand checking, but Team USA isn't.

So in every game Team USA plays, they are allowed to travel and carry, their opponents are not. Team USA is allowed to hand check, but their opponents are not.

Now, interestingly enough, recently in some of the 2012 Olympics games, the refs started calling Team USA some for the hand checking. No doubt as a result of other teams complaining.

This of course is all part of this supposed NBA World Basketball Cup, where the games would all be played under NBA rules and NBA refs.

The bottom line is that Team USA can no longer win tournaments under FIBA rules, so FIBA changed the rules to accommodate them, give them a built in advantage, and to help them win tournaments that they could not win if they had to play by the same rules as all the other teams.

You should also notice that the last Olympics and this one play under a totally different interpretation than EuroBasket, and the same with the last basketball world cup.

Basket World Cup and Olympics are reffing to NBA style. Players get free throws for throwing themselves into the lane. Physical play has almost been eliminated, travels being allowed, hand checking being restricted, etc.

They are already just about using NBA rules to get ready for this "NBA World Basketball Cup".

Compare it to EuroBasket. The games at EuroBasket are extremely physical, not much free throws, strict on travels, hand checking is allowed.....

The reason is because EuroBasket is still operating under the original FIBA rules and not the new ones that are friendly to NBA players. Obviously because Team USA does not play at EuroBasket, so they didn't have to change the rules.

This is also one of the reasons by FIBA Europe does not want to allow the NBA to get their way and control the World Basketball Cup, because they know they are trying to make it be played under all NBA rules and refs.

Including banning a true zone defense, complete with the defensive 3 seconds rule.

[Darius]

You heard it here first, folks:

Greece lost because the refs were reffing under Nigerian rules.

[Euroleague]

I'm not actually very knowledgeable of the statistical comparison between those who have spent time in both Euroleague and NBA. I was just looking to clarify the "maximum of two steps between dribbles" remark, as I had never heard of such a thing before. I was looking for something similar to what iznogood posted, where he was able to cite his own FIBA officiating experience. That seems to get us headed in the right direction.

There are two different rules that FIBA uses. Even if the ref does not know that I am not at all surprised. There is the rules of EuroBasket, and the rules of the other zones.

Now in case of Euroleague, well Euroleague is just like the NBA. It makes it own rules. Euroleague has been using EuroBasket rules. However, they did allow NBA players from the lockout to play under NBA style. That was supposedly because they would not be able to adjust otherwise.

Now, as a result of that, they are actually changing to the Olympics and World Basket Cup rules on ball handling next year.

Keep in mind that in the Olympics and World Cup, the refs are still allowing Team USA an extra step, which will not exist in Euroleague under next year's new rules though.

[Heavincent]

Greece got beat by Nigeria.

Thoughts on that Euroleauge? You still haven't addressed that.

[Heavincent]

American rules. 10 of their players are American. Plus, the game was fixed.

Cool excuses.

Probably better for you that Greece didn't make the Olympics, because then the U.S would have beaten them by at least 70.

[Euroleague]

Cool excuses.

Probably better for you that Greece didn't make the Olympics, because then the U.S would have beaten them by at least 70.

I doubt if USA could beat Greece in an elimination game.

[Heavincent]

I doubt if USA could beat Greece in an elimination game.

U.S would win by at LEAST 50. Fact. Greece didn't even make the Olympics, so why would you think they even stand a chance?

[TMacMagic]

American rules. 10 of their players are American. Plus, the game was fixed.

Everything is fixed nowadays.

*sarcasm*

[KG215]

FIBA changed the rules of the World Cup and the Olympics for games in which Team USA plays.

For example, prior to the 2008 Olympics, the refs were all told that Team USA would play under NBA rules, but all other teams under FIBA rules, even the teams playing against USA.

So, think of it this way.

Greece - USA game in 2006 was under the old FIBA rules.

Every game from 2008 Olympics, 2010 World Basketball Cup, and 2012 Olympics is under the new rules.

The rules work as Team USA is allowed to travel, dribble, palm the ball, etc. under the same rules as in the NBA. Other teams, even their opponents are not.


Ok, I need to see a link to an article or something for this. So the refs were specifically told to change the rules for team USA in team competition? You actually believe that? Or you have evidence to back this up?

[Rake2204]

There are two different rules that FIBA uses. Even if the ref does not know that I am not at all surprised. There is the rules of EuroBasket, and the rules of the other zones.

Now in case of Euroleague, well Euroleague is just like the NBA. It makes it own rules. Euroleague has been using EuroBasket rules. However, they did allow NBA players from the lockout to play under NBA style. That was supposedly because they would not be able to adjust otherwise.
I have never heard of NBA players from the lockout being allowed to play under different rules than the other players in their league (as I did not follow those leagues very closely). This sounds very difficult to believe, so I must ask if you have a link better explaining what you speak of?

Further, regarding this year's Olympics, I do not recall seeing too many blatant play style differences between the USA and opponents (in terms of handchecking and traveling). It seems as if I've watched Chris Paul get whistled for a carry on an in-and-out dribble and Kevin Durant a travel for lifting his pivot foot prior to beginning his dribble (amongst others). Further, it seems apparent when a handcheck foul is forthcoming for the USA when they become way too aggressive defensively (Westbrook and Iguodala in particular). And I understand you've stated they've begun calling the games closer again in '12, but it just hasn't been much of a difference to me than what I saw in '08.

Regarding the USA as a whole, I think the biggest difference between their performances year by year is their rosters. I don't think it's coincidence their most successful team of the 00's was the one containing a roster full of great players. I also don't think it's a surprise their worst Olympic team ('04) was one made up of two all-stars, four teenage future stars in minimal roles, then a slew of pretty good players (in lieu of 17 other American all-stars or All-NBA players who declined invitation). The world is no doubt improving at a great place, and starting a backcourt of Allen Iverson and Stephon Marbury amongst Richard Jefferson and Lamar Odom isn't necessarily going to be enough to get things done.

[Heavincent]

Jesus Christ guys stop giving into Euroleague. He'll shut up if you just point out the fact that Greece lost to Nigeria. It's like an off button.

[KG215]

No he didn't. He said it doesn't matter if its Kobe Bryant, everyone should be reffed the same.

He literally says that he doesn't think the refs were the problem, or that they favored anyone. There is a direct quote from him. Meaning he said it. Not implying something like you.

Don't bother. I called him out the other day when he kept saying international refs heavily favor the US and essentially saying every close game the USA has won in international play the last 6 years was fixed. He then called me a liar and said I was making things up. After I went back and quoted 6-8 posts of his where he said those exact things, I got called a moron and put on ignore.

Once you prove him wrong with irrefutable evidence, he'll react and respond like a seven year old, call you a name, and say he's putting you on ignore. Not only is he the worst poster on ISH, he might be the most immature, too.

[coin24]

Nigeria >> Greece..

Team USA would have beaten Greece by at least 75 points, but they were too shit to even qualify:roll: :roll:

What happened to the almighty shitnoulis euroleague??:lol
Bench scrub. It's a shame the euroleagues goat player Anthony Parker, 2xmvp isn't Greek cause then they might win a game:lol

[DuMa]

people still take the time to respond to euroleague? you're just feeding the troll

[KyrieTheFuture]

The NBA is D-League compared to Euroleague. If the refs actually called it consistently with the rulebook the US would never win in international competition. They're all a bunch of cheaters. Nothing compares to the beauty of FIBA basketball with it's elite defenses and superstars. NBA players need fixed games to win smfh.

end troll

[coin24]

The NBA is D-League compared to Euroleague. If the refs actually called it consistently with the rulebook the US would never win in international competition. They're all a bunch of cheaters. Nothing compares to the beauty of FIBA basketball with it's elite defenses and superstars. NBA players need fixed games to win smfh.

end troll


Location: Arkansas :oldlol:


Just saw the white... Epic troll

[LBJ_MVP09]

Why do people still keep feeding this troll lol. It's obvious he's either a troll or too unintelligent to argue coherently.

[KG215]

The NBA is D-League compared to Euroleague. If the refs actually called it consistently with the rulebook the US would never win in international competition. They're all a bunch of cheaters. Nothing compares to the beauty of FIBA basketball with it's elite defenses and superstars. NBA players need fixed games to win smfh.

end troll
This essentially is every Euroleague post in a nutshell.

[madmax]

Sharas is right - ever since 2006 USA teams are whistled differently than any other FIBA team. The biggest difference is not really travelling interpretation amongst different refs, but the amount of handchecking USA is allowed to do to their opponents. I remember how back in 2010 WC russian players were quoted showing their bruised and red hands from constant hacking of USA guards after the SF game...now this makes the proposition of beating US team even more impossible - not only other teams can't match them in physical talent, but they also have to fight against inconsistent and biased refereeing too:rolleyes: No wonder most of the FIBA players are getting more and more sick of this BS. And more power to them for stannding up to corrupt FIBA and it's agenda:applause:

[kobron23]

this euroleague scrub has to be the most delusional kid ive ever talked to on a forum in my life

[atljonesbro]

Nigeria Arkansas Nigeria Anthony Parker Goat Arkansas Anthony Nigeria Parker Ike Diogu Deron Williams Retired Jersey In 15 Games Arkansas Nigeria Nigeria Arkansas Nigeria Anthony Parker Goat Arkansas Anthony Nigeria Parker Ike Diogu Deron Williams Retired Jersey In 15 Games Arkansas Nigeria Nigeria Arkansas Nigeria Anthony Parker Goat Arkansas Anthony Nigeria Parker Ike Diogu Deron Williams Retired Jersey In 15 Games Arkansas Nigeria Nigeria Arkansas Nigeria Anthony Parker Goat Arkansas Anthony Nigeria Parker Ike Diogu Deron Williams Retired Jersey In 15 Games Arkansas Nigeria Nigeria Arkansas Nigeria Anthony Parker Goat Arkansas Anthony Nigeria Parker Ike Diogu Deron Williams Retired Jersey In 15 Games Arkansas Nigeria Nigeria Arkansas Nigeria Anthony Parker Goat Arkansas Anthony Nigeria Parker Ike Diogu Deron Williams Retired Jersey In 15 Games Arkansas Nigeria

:eek:

[Rnbizzle]

In a way it's actually a damn shame the US won't play Greece in the olympics now.. It would have been great to see the US rape Greece for 156+ points, since Nigeria > Greece, the US >>>>>>>>>>>>>(infinite >'s) >>>>> Greece.

[iznogood]

FIBA changed the rules of the World Cup and the Olympics for games in which Team USA plays.

For example, prior to the 2008 Olympics, the refs were all told that Team USA would play under NBA rules, but all other teams under FIBA rules, even the teams playing against USA.

So, think of it this way.

Greece - USA game in 2006 was under the old FIBA rules.

Every game from 2008 Olympics, 2010 World Basketball Cup, and 2012 Olympics is under the new rules.

The rules work as Team USA is allowed to travel, dribble, palm the ball, etc. under the same rules as in the NBA. Other teams, even their opponents are not.

Also, FIBA changed the rules because the NBA does not allow hand checking. So that international teams are not allowed to hand check against Team USA. However, Team USA IS allowed to hand check.

The reasoning is that the opponents of Team USA are used to hand checking, but Team USA isn't.

So in every game Team USA plays, they are allowed to travel and carry, their opponents are not. Team USA is allowed to hand check, but their opponents are not.

Now, interestingly enough, recently in some of the 2012 Olympics games, the refs started calling Team USA some for the hand checking. No doubt as a result of other teams complaining.

This of course is all part of this supposed NBA World Basketball Cup, where the games would all be played under NBA rules and NBA refs.

The bottom line is that Team USA can no longer win tournaments under FIBA rules, so FIBA changed the rules to accommodate them, give them a built in advantage, and to help them win tournaments that they could not win if they had to play by the same rules as all the other teams.

You should also notice that the last Olympics and this one play under a totally different interpretation than EuroBasket, and the same with the last basketball world cup.

Basket World Cup and Olympics are reffing to NBA style. Players get free throws for throwing themselves into the lane. Physical play has almost been eliminated, travels being allowed, hand checking being restricted, etc.

They are already just about using NBA rules to get ready for this "NBA World Basketball Cup".

Compare it to EuroBasket. The games at EuroBasket are extremely physical, not much free throws, strict on travels, hand checking is allowed.....

The reason is because EuroBasket is still operating under the original FIBA rules and not the new ones that are friendly to NBA players. Obviously because Team USA does not play at EuroBasket, so they didn't have to change the rules.

This is also one of the reasons by FIBA Europe does not want to allow the NBA to get their way and control the World Basketball Cup, because they know they are trying to make it be played under all NBA rules and refs.

Including banning a true zone defense, complete with the defensive 3 seconds rule.
i've never seen any sort of evidence of what you are saying. and i'm not trying to call you a liar or anything similar, but if i understand your post correctly, all the referees on the olympics and the world championship are instructed to allow team usa to play anyway they want..? i can not take this argument seriously without some evidence, i'm sure you can understand this.
i will admit that i think that team usa does sometimes get away with more physical plays than other teams, but i think the reason behind is that they make so many little fouls it is impossible for the referees to call them all correctly. also the referees might get overwhelmed when a team makes a couple of successful defensive plays in a row and they might miss some fouls.
i don't agree with you on your argument that the eurobasket is being officiated strictly by the fiba rulebook - mostly because i believe officiating on the pivot foot rule is just about the same on all international competitions, including eurobasket. also if you noticed, the trend in the last couple of years has been that the player is allowed to catch the ball with one foot on the floor and than take two more steps toward the basket which would have been called traveling a couple of years ago. i also noticed referees tend to go easy on the players in the post when they fail to catch the entry pass in the post (but still obviously touch the ball) and the ball bounces on the floor and they catch it. very often this player will be allowed to start his dribble normally as if he caught the ball in the first place. this would always be called a double dribble years ago. you can also see players take 3 steps while dribbling and then finish it with a jump stop that makes for 5 touches of the floor alltogether (it's basically how chauncey billups and a lot of nba guards take pull up 3s on the break) and i'm not making this stuff up, I've been to both u20 and u17 fiba tournaments this year (also i've been to last year7s eurobasket and i see at least 10 euroleague games in person every year) and i must have seen more than 30 games altogether in less then a month. and the referees were some of so called fiba europe's best, like lamonica, pukl, krause...also i did not notice the difference in the number of fouls and free throws you mentioned, but i haven't seen exact stats so i can not make a claim that what you're saying is not true. however i noticed the referees became more aware of the players who flopped more often than the others during the tournament and called less fouls compared to when the tournament started, which i think is a result of the analysis of the officiating they do between the tournaments. but this is not really the point of the debate, i just pointed it out since i think it is a good thing.

i do agree with you that we see less of the missed traveling and palming calls on the eurobasket then we do on olympics and world championship, but i think it mostly has to do with the style of play(ers) that participate in the tournament. imho the real problem is that you can see that there is no strict interpretation of the rules and some referees feel that they should officiate a game in a way that it would still be watchable. but you can not make an argument this is not being officiated the same for all the teams, because we have yet to see other teams make this sort of traveling and not get called on it. however, i agree that team usa benefits from this exact rule stretching more than the other teams do, since they are the most athletic team, so i can understand why saras is not happy about it.


Sharas is right - ever since 2006 USA teams are whistled differently than any other FIBA team. The biggest difference is not really travelling interpretation amongst different refs, but the amount of handchecking USA is allowed to do to their opponents. I remember how back in 2010 WC russian players were quoted showing their bruised and red hands from constant hacking of USA guards after the SF game...now this makes the proposition of beating US team even more impossible - not only other teams can't match them in physical talent, but they also have to fight against inconsistent and biased refereeing too:rolleyes: No wonder most of the FIBA players are getting more and more sick of this BS. And more power to them for stannding up to corrupt FIBA and it's agenda:applause:
i think the reason behind this is the "they can not call as many fouls as we make" mentality (i probably translated that one wrong) and not corruption. you will often here this argument by coaches in european basketball too - "the other team played really hard and they didn't get called for fouls". it is for the referees to recognize the type and the amount of contact they are going to allow and for the players and coach to recognize it and adapt as well as they can.

[Nash]

Oh Euroleague, I've gone from hating you to actually liking your trollings. You sincerely believe in the shit you post.

[DaSeba5]

I would respect you more if you were a better troll.

[Rake2204]

i've never seen any sort of evidence of what you are saying. and i'm not trying to call you a liar or anything similar, but if i understand your post correctly, all the referees on the olympics and the world championship are instructed to allow team usa to play anyway they want..? i can not take this argument seriously without some evidence, i'm sure you can understand this.
i will admit that i think that team usa does sometimes get away with more physical plays than other teams, but i think the reason behind is that they make so many little fouls it is impossible for the referees to call them all correctly. also the referees might get overwhelmed when a team makes a couple of successful defensive plays in a row and they might miss some fouls.
i don't agree with you on your argument that the eurobasket is being officiated strictly by the fiba rulebook - mostly because i believe officiating on the pivot foot rule is just about the same on all international competitions, including eurobasket. also if you noticed, the trend in the last couple of years has been that the player is allowed to catch the ball with one foot on the floor and than take two more steps toward the basket which would have been called traveling a couple of years ago. i also noticed referees tend to go easy on the players in the post when they fail to catch the entry pass in the post (but still obviously touch the ball) and the ball bounces on the floor and they catch it. very often this player will be allowed to start his dribble normally as if he caught the ball in the first place. this would always be called a double dribble years ago. you can also see players take 3 steps while dribbling and then finish it with a jump stop that makes for 5 touches of the floor alltogether (it's basically how chauncey billups and a lot of nba guards take pull up 3s on the break) and i'm not making this stuff up, I've been to both u20 and u17 fiba tournaments this year (also i've been to last year7s eurobasket and i see at least 10 euroleague games in person every year) and i must have seen more than 30 games altogether in less then a month. and the referees were some of so called fiba europe's best, like lamonica, pukl, krause...also i did not notice the difference in the number of fouls and free throws you mentioned, but i haven't seen exact stats so i can not make a claim that what you're saying is not true. however i noticed the referees became more aware of the players who flopped more often than the others during the tournament and called less fouls compared to when the tournament started, which i think is a result of the analysis of the officiating they do between the tournaments. but this is not really the point of the debate, i just pointed it out since i think it is a good thing.

i do agree with you that we see less of the missed traveling and palming calls on the eurobasket then we do on olympics and world championship, but i think it mostly has to do with the style of play(ers) that participate in the tournament. imho the real problem is that you can see that there is no strict interpretation of the rules and some referees feel that they should officiate a game in a way that it would still be watchable. but you can not make an argument this is not being officiated the same for all the teams, because we have yet to see other teams make this sort of traveling and not get called on it. however, i agree that team usa benefits from this exact rule stretching more than the other teams do, since they are the most athletic team, so i can understand why saras is not happy about it.


i think the reason behind this is the "they can not call as many fouls as we make" mentality (i probably translated that one wrong) and not corruption. you will often here this argument by coaches in european basketball too - "the other team played really hard and they didn't get called for fouls". it is for the referees to recognize the type and the amount of contact they are going to allow and for the players and coach to recognize it and adapt as well as they can.
Good stuff.