ISH Vote #6: Top 20 Players in the NBA

[RRR3]

Vote for the 6th best player in the NBA. First to 25 votes wins.


I vote for Russell Westbrook.


Voting Count
Wade-25
Russell Westbrook-16
Rajon Rondo-8
Derrick Rose-5
Deron Williams-1






Top 20 NBA Players as voted by ISH


http://reddogreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Kobe-Bryant-Evan-Turner-Lakers-Sixers-2-6-12.jpg



1. LeBron James (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273644)
2. Kevin Durant (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7651246#post7651246)
3. Dwight Howard (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7651523#post7651523)
4. Chris Paul (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7652665#post7652665)
5. Kobe Bryant (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273755)

[BuffaloBill]

Derrick Rose

[Rnbizzle]

Derrick Rose
This

[alenleomessi]

wade

[Faptastrophe]

Dwyane Wade.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le8ol03Jpm1qdunk8o1_500.gif

[PJR]

Wade.

[imdaman99]

westbrook

[StateOfMind12]

Derrick Rose is my vote for now but I'll change it to either Wade or Westbrook if this thread ends up being a debate between the two and Rose has no chance.

[AlonzoGOAT]

Wade derrick rose is currently not better with his ACL injury

[EnoughSaid]

Dwyane Wade no question.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8ezm63ewM1r73650o1_400.jpg

:bowdown:

[Freedom Kid7]

I'm going with Rose :rockon:

[fpliii]

Wade

[Stern]

wade

[kNIOKAS]

Rajon Rondo

[Rubio2Gasol]

Rajon Rondo

It's futile, these people don't understand the game.

Rose , a player based on explosiveness and athleticism is coming off a torn ACL......will probably play max 30 games next year and honestly the Bulls would be foolish to let him play those.


Edit someone new Voted for Rondo, mark me down for Rondo

[Wally450]

Currently I will put Rajon Rondo

[Chief Keef]

Derrick Rose. That nikka nice

[magictricked]

Rose Wade or Westbrook? Westbrook until Wade or Rose show they can return from their current injuries.

Westbrook

[Clutch]

Wade

[longhornfan1234]

Wade.

[Hizack]

Why not just ask repliers to give a list of 20 players (in order) in one thread, instead of posting 20 separate threads?

[ncrizzle]

wade

[BlueandGold]

Wade (assuming he's even a little bit more healthy than last year)

BTW is this when healthy or at this current time? Cause Rose couldn't get more non-healthy at this present time (torn ACL just few months earlier)

[EnoughSaid]

Why not just ask repliers to give a list of 20 players (in order) in one thread, instead of posting 20 separate threads?

This is more accurate.

[BlackVVaves]

This one is hard. It's between Wade and Westbrook, for sure.

Rose's health has to be considered. We are talking best player right now, going into next season, with emphasis on last season.


Westbrook put up:

24 PPG with 54 TS% || 6 APG || 5 RPG || 2 SPG


Wade put up:

22 PPG with 56 TS% || 5 APG || 5 RPG || 2 SPG || 1 BPG||


Westbrook is the better shooter, the better scorer, and was much, much more consistent than Wade this past season.

Wade is the more efficient, better playmaker, and also turned the ball over less frequently than Westbrook.

Westbrook is the better on-ball defender by a slight margin, while Wade is the better help defender by a larger margin.

It's hard. I think in a vacuum, Wade is the better player. However he was painfully inconsistent last year, disappearing for entire halfs, which cost the Heat some games. He also missed 17 games , while Westbrook missed 0 games.If not for Lebron's dominance in the latter half of the Celtics series and Finals (alongside the incredible shooting display by their supporting cast), the Heat don't enter the summer as NBA champions.

He showed moments of brilliance that we're accustomed to seeing, however, so did Westbrook. And, Westbrook exhibited it much more often, and in critical parts of the season when the team needed his boost.

I want to vote Wade, but if I'm to be consistent with how I've been voting in these threads, basing criteria on production, then I have to vote Westbrook at this present moment.

[Snoop_Cat]

Westbrook.

[tmacattack33]

Westbrook.


Both Rose and Wade have been injured, so i don't see how u can vote for either of them before they can prove to us they are back to form.

[CasterL]

Gotta go with wade.

Also glad he isn't at the Olympics, a good summers rest will do him good

[Umad101]

16 season in going to his 17th and still considered top. 5 by many:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: Don't know how ****** don't have this cat in their top 5 of all time


My vote for 6th is wade even tho he was shitty last yr and rode Bron *** for his second ring

[BlackVVaves]

16 season in going to his 17th and still considered top. 5 by many:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: Don't know how ****** don't have this cat in their top 5 of all time

My vote for 6th is wade even tho he was shitty last yr and rode Bron *** for his second ring

Because:

MJ
Russell
Magic
Kareem
Bird

Were all better and had better careers than Kobe has.

A ring or 2, accompanied with a FMVP and a solid [ EFFICIENT ] season, and he might have a case over Bird. Might.

But, he doesn't now, and isn't Top 5 All Time. Stop being a Kobetard, and stop derailing the thread.

[Heavincent]

Westbrook

[Rubio2Gasol]

Rondo playoff averages.

17.3 points , 6.7 rebounds , 12 assists. 47% FG% ,2.4 steals

AST%- 54
TRB% - 9.4

Wade playoffs

22.8 points , 5.2 rebounds , 4.3 assists, 1.2 blocks, 1.5 steals. 46% FG

AST%- 22
TRB%- 8.0

Seriously.

[Cherry Picker]

Rondo

[KG215]

It's futile, these people don't understand the game.

Rose , a player based on explosiveness and athleticism is coming off a torn ACL......will probably play max 30 games next year and honestly the Bulls would be foolish to let him play those.


Edit someone new Voted for Rondo, mark me down for Rondo

Two people, you and KINOKas, are continually voting for Rondo. I think he is a top 10ish player, but quit acting like everyone else "doesn't understand the game" because they don't agree with you. Your arguments aren't invalid or bad ones, either, but if he was a consensus top 3-6 player, there'd probably be more than two people clamoring for him to be ranked as such. Chill, he'll get in about where he deserves to, in the 7-12 range. He's starting to get more votes this go-around, so he might even get in at 7 or 8.

My vote is for Wade.

[guy]

Rondo until Wade or Rose can prove they will bounce back from their injuries. Westbrook being better then Rondo? Rondo is clearly the most underrated player in the league. He should arguably be even higher then this.

[BlackVVaves]

Rondo until Wade or Rose can prove they will bounce back from their injuries. Westbrook being better then Rondo? Rondo is clearly the most underrated player in the league. He should arguably be even higher then this.

No he shouldn't.

[Umad101]

Lol acting like bird is on Kobes level. Skills alone Kobe>>>bird also bird played on a more stacked team throughout his career than Kobes
Because:

MJ
Russell
Magic
Kareem
Bird

Were all better and had better careers than Kobe has.

A ring or 2, accompanied with a FMVP and a solid [ EFFICIENT ] season, and he might have a case over Bird. Might.

But, he doesn't now, and isn't Top 5 All Time. Stop being a Kobetard, and stop derailing the thread.

[LongLiveTheKing]

D-Wade, he should've been 5.

[Cowboy Thunder]

Westbrook :bowdown:

[KG215]

Lol acting like bird is on Kobes level. Skills alone Kobe>>>bird also bird played on a more stacked team throughout his career than Kobes

Bird: better passer, rebounder, and shooter than Kobe. So how is Kobe more skilled?

Besides, being more skilled doesn't make someone better in a historical sense. Bird played on a more stacked team but, compared to the league at their respective times, it wasn't anymore "stacked" than Kobe's teams, especially during the 3-peat years. Yes, Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers were more stacked than Kobe's Lakers teams, but compared to the rest of the league they were about the same. Kobe was, during his 5 championship seasons, on either the best or second best team in the league; on paper, by consensus, whatever.

[CTulc]

Rondoooooooooo

[chips93]

westbrook

[BlackVVaves]

Lol acting like bird is on Kobes level. Skills alone Kobe>>>bird also bird played on a more stacked team throughout his career than Kobes

You will not find one person that isn't a diehard Kobe fan that agree with you.

You're only point that is valid is that Bird played on more stacked teams. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that Bird was the superior:

Shooter
Passer
Rebounder

Please try and supply facts and dispute this. Please.

Like I said. If Kobe retires with 6-7 rings and 3 FMVPs with 46-50% shooting in his last seasons, then he has a viable argument against Bird. But, not the other 4 players. And, just because you have a viable arguement, doesn't mean you win the arguement.

But that is all hypothetical. Because as of now, Kobe is anywhere from 7-10 All Time.

Not Top 5.

[Smoke117]

Wade.

[EnoughSaid]

Are people seriously voting for Rondo?! :eek: :facepalm

[Yung D-Will]

If it's about Rondo v Westbrook, Rondo is better.

[chips93]

you can definitely make a case for kobe being a better scorer than bird, and a better defender

imo kobe was a better scorer and better defender than bird

[BlackVVaves]

you can definitely make a case for kobe being a better scorer than bird, and a better defender

imo kobe was a better scorer and better defender than bird

He certainly was the better scorer, and the better defender (though Bird was a superb team and help defender. But yes, a below average on-ball defender.)

But Bird was a better shooter, better rebounder, and better passer. Not only better, but vastly better in terms of shooting and passing.

[YAWN]

Wade

[TylerOO]

Westbrook

[Rainwound]

Westbrook

[KG215]

you can definitely make a case for kobe being a better scorer than bird, and a better defender

imo kobe was a better scorer and better defender than bird

Depends, because Bird was the more efficient scorer. There's only maybe 2-3 other players in NBA history that could match Kobe when he got "in the zone" but I'm not sure he was clearly a better scorer than Bird. He was a better defender, although Bird's help and off-ball defense is underrated.

[chips93]

But Bird was a better shooter, better rebounder, and better passer. Not only better, but vastly better in terms of shooting and passing.

i wouldnt call bird a vastly better shooter

kobe made twice as many 3s a game as bird

[RoundMoundOfReb]

dwade

[KG215]

kobe made twice as many 3s a game as bird

Eras. Kobe grew up and played in an era where the 3P line became popularized. Bird didn't have a 3P line in high school and college and the NBA didn't add the 3P line until the 1979-1980 season. Players didn't try to utilize it nearly to the same extent of players and teams of the 1990s and 2000s.

[BlueandGold]

RRR3 u should make a point in the OP that says we're voting on players in their present condition (aka Rose is severely injured, Kobe a bit older/banged up, etc)

[Umad101]

Shooting: arguable, plus I don't think y'all see those kinds of shooting percentages if u put him in this era where he'll be more heavily defended and perimeter players good or better than him.

Passing: arguable. And even if bird is better the gap here isn't much big where it makes me pick him over Kobe

Rebounding: I'll give u that, but he a small forward and Kobe a shooting gaurd( although pretty good rebounder for his position).

Kobe is a better two way player, better scorer and defender than bird. Also bird gives u like what 10 great season while Kobe is going into his 17th strong and still consider top 5, don't think u can make a claim like that for bird. Bird is a great player but Kobe longtivity, accomplished, and skillset puts him ahead of brid for me
You will not find one person that isn't a diehard Kobe fan that agree with you.

You're only point that is valid is that Bird played on more stacked teams. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that Bird was the superior:

Shooter
Passer
Rebounder

Please try and supply facts and dispute this. Please.

Like I said. If Kobe retires with 6-7 rings and 3 FMVPs with 46-50% shooting in his last seasons, then he has a viable argument against Bird. But, not the other 4 players. And, just because you have a viable arguement, doesn't mean you win the arguement.

But that is all hypothetical. Because as of now, Kobe is anywhere from 7-10 All Time.

Not Top 5.

[guy]

Are people seriously voting for Rondo?! :eek: :facepalm

I'm assuming you choose Wade. Rondo had arguably a better regular season, probably a better playoffs, and is only getting better while Wade is on the downside. I don't see why it's not an argument.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I don't really understand why this debate is taking place.Arguments can be made for both players , but none of those arguments should be here.

[NOHCP3]

Dwayne Wade. Torn but ill go with Wade.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Westbrook

[BlackVVaves]

i wouldnt call bird a vastly better shooter

kobe made twice as many 3s a game as bird

In 13 seasons, Bird spent only 1 season shooting under 46% from the field, and is a career 50% shooter, on an average of 19 attempts per game.

In 16 seasons, Kobe has spent 8 seasons shooting under 46% from the field, and is a career 45% shooter, on an average of 20 attempts per game.

Kobe's the second greatest shooting guard in NBA history, but it terms of shooting, Bird was superior.

And yes, Kobe made twice as many threes per game as Bird. But, he also attempted twice as many threes as Bird.

[AK47DR91]

Russell Westbrook!!! :rant

[BlackVVaves]

I don't really understand why this debate is taking place.Arguments can be made for both players , but none of those arguments should be here.

Agreed.

Last I'm commenting on it in this thread.

[KG215]

Shooting: arguable, plus I don't y'all see those kinds of shooting percentages if u put him in this era where he'll be more heavily defended and perimeter players good or better than him.

So the perimeter players defending Bird in the 80s were decidedly worse than the players that would be defending him today?


Passing: arguable. And even if bird is better the gap here isn't much big where it makes me pick him over Kobe
No, it's not, and yes it is. Bird is arguably the best passing forward/non-PG of all-time.


Rebounding: I'll give u that, but he a small forward and Kobe a shooting gaurd( although pretty good rebounder for his position).
You can't have it both ways. You can't call Kobe the more skilled player then, when someone points out Bird was a better rebounder, use the "Kobe was a guard and Bird was a forward" excuse. Bird was the better rebounder, period, and it's not that close.

And I apologize for derailing the thread. I'm done with this topic.

[KG215]

I'm assuming you choose Wade. Rondo had arguably a better regular season, probably a better playoffs, and is only getting better while Wade is on the downside. I don't see why it's not an argument.

There's no probably about it. After LeBron, Rondo was arguably the MVP of the playoffs. I'd still take Wade for next season, because I'm banking on him recovering and getting close to 100% (for Wade), and I think he can still be a top 3-5 player in the league if that happens. If not, then Rondo, Westbrook, and maybe another player or two will surpass him next season.

[KingBeasley08]

Wade

[KG215]

Not trying to take over your thread RRR3, but by my count here's where I think we stand right now...

Wade - 20
Westbrook - 12
Rondo - 6
Rose - 5

[KGMN]

Dwyane Wade

[qrich]

rondo

[pauk]

westbrook

[christian1923]

Wade.

Cant believe Westbrook has double the votes of rose though. Rose is better than him in every way. :facepalm

[Rubio2Gasol]

Wade.

Cant believe Westbrook has double the votes of rose though. Rose is better than him in every way. :facepalm

Dat psychic power.

[KG215]

I think this has gotten to the point where the 25 vote number is going to have to come down to 15 or 20.

[ThatCoolKid]

Westbrook

[FreezingTsmoove]

Westbrook

[Roc Nation]

Wade imo

[Ikill]

Not surprised the Lebron dick riders voted for Westbrook :lol
Pauk :facepalm

Wade is more efficient while scoring a similar amount of points as Westbrook. Wade averages less turnovers with a similar amount of assists averages more rebounds more blocks steals and plays better overall defense.

[jalbert009]

Rondo!

[KG215]

Not surprised the Lebron dick riders voted for Westbrook :lol
Pauk :facepalm

Wade is more efficient while scoring a similar amount of points as Westbrook. Wade averages less turnovers with a similar amount of assists averages more rebounds more blocks steals and plays better overall defense.
Westbrook has like 13-15 votes, are you sure all of them are, as you eloquently put it, "LeBron dick riders"?

[Dwyane Rose]

flash

[chazzy]

Close between Wade and Westbrook. I'll go with Russell

[josh99]

Deron Williams

[BlackVVaves]

Not surprised the Lebron dick riders voted for Westbrook :lol
Pauk :facepalm

Wade is more efficient while scoring a similar amount of points as Westbrook. Wade averages less turnovers with a similar amount of assists averages more rebounds more blocks steals and plays better overall defense.

You're wrong, either because you're misinformed or simply lying.

Wade does not average more rebounds. They both average 5 rebounds per game.

Wade does not average more steals. They both average 2 steals per game.

I wouldn't have a problem with someone saying Wade is the better defender, but it isn't as clear cut as you attempt to convey. Westbrook is a slight better on-ball defender, and Wade is a much better help defender. Enough that it can compensate for the disparity between the two as on-ball defenders. But just enough, the difference at this point in time isn't a mile and a half.

I also wouldn't have a problem with someone saying Wade is better than Westbrook overall. When 100% healthy, he is. But, use suitable facts and information to back your premise.

Don't spit out information that is erroneous or purely opinion driven assessments. Fact is, Westbrook had the better season of the two.

[bfrombleacher]

I vote Wade even though I don't like him. Give credit where credit is due.

[DaSeba5]

Wade. He just needs to stay healthy.

[raid09]

Wade. Better, smarter playmaker than Westbrook.

[Legends66NBA7]

Are people seriously voting for Rondo?!

Yeah, seriously !!

Dude's a Top 2-3 point.

[Ikill]

Westbrook has like 13-15 votes, are you sure all of them are, as you eloquently put it, "LeBron dick riders"?
Where did I say that everyone that voted Westbrook is a Lebron dick rider in just calling out posters like pauk

[Ikill]

You're wrong, either because you're misinformed or simply lying.

Wade does not average more rebounds. They both average 5 rebounds per game.

Wade does not average more steals. They both average 2 steals per game.

I wouldn't have a problem with someone saying Wade is the better defender, but it isn't as clear cut as you attempt to convey. Westbrook is a slight better on-ball defender, and Wade is a much better help defender. Enough that it can compensate for the disparity between the two as on-ball defenders. But just enough, the difference at this point in time isn't a mile and a half.

I also wouldn't have a problem with someone saying Wade is better than Westbrook overall. When 100% healthy, he is. But, use suitable facts and information to back your premise.

Don't spit out information that is erroneous or purely opinion driven assessments. Fact is, Westbrook had the better season of the two.
Smh go back to second page of the last thread I don't have agenda like you think I do.

[Ikill]

Blackwaves go back to the other thread this guy needs to stop acting like he's the shit

[BlackVVaves]

Smh go back to second page of the last thread I don't have agenda like you think I do.

Which is why I said you're either misinformed or lying. Not just "you're lying."

Also, agenda or not, its best to stick to facts than opinions. Things get less messy and are easier to measure and compare when you do.

[RaininTwos]

Westbrook

[DaSeba5]

Looks like it's going to be Wade. :applause:

[Ikill]

Which is why I said you're either misinformed or lying. Not just "you're lying."

Also, agenda or not, its best to stick to facts than opinions. Things get less messy and are easier to measure and compare when you do.
I used facts at the very start go back and check stop acting like I'm doing all this shit that Im not. This ****ing guy

[BlackVVaves]

Blackwaves go back to the other thread this guy needs to stop acting like he's the shit

:roll:

All I'm doing is stating facts, while for the majority of the time, you haven't.

Like you saying Wade averages more rebounds and more steals.

I've been thourough and consistent while you haven't.

If that's me "acting like" I'm "the shit," please excuse the stench.

[BlackVVaves]

I used facts at the very start go back and check stop acting like I'm doing all this shit that Im not. This ****ing guy

Dude, you're "stats" are wrong :oldlol:

Did you not hop back and forth between the reasoning behind your stances in the previous thread?

Did you not state Wade averaged more rebounds and more steals than Westbrook?

Yes or no? Don't make me start quoting you kid :oldlol:

[Ikill]

This is what I'm going by
per 36
Wade 24/5/5.3/1.8/1.4 56% ts 2.9 turnovers
Westbrook 24.1/4.6/5.6/1.7/0.3 54% ts 3.7 turnovers

Scored the same amount Wade was more efficient
Wade averaged more rebounds very close tho
Pretty much same amount of assists Westbrook averaged more turnovers
same amount of steals
Wade averaged more blocks
Wades the better defender

so pretty much he's better in every way

[Ikill]

Dude, you're "stats" are wrong :oldlol:

Did you not hop back and forth between the reasoning behind your stances in the previous thread?

Did you not state Wade averaged more rebounds and more steals than Westbrook?

Yes or no? Don't make me start quoting you kid :oldlol:
I explained everything back in the last thread

[BlackVVaves]

This is what I'm going by

Guy.

Why are you using PER 36 to compare players in the same year who play extremely close to 36 minutes per game?

You're the only person in these threads using PER 36 that I've seen. What's wrong with you?

Westbrook had a better season than Wade. What part of that can't you understand?

[Ikill]

...


I gave my breakdown to why Westbrook was better than Wade early in this thread. Westbrook and Kobe had better seasons because they played more games but when Wade played he was better. I used per 36 because Westbrook and Wades stat were pretty much identical I wanted to show Wade got those stats more efficiently. I started calling others dumbasses because they were saying stupid shit like Wade has no case over Westbrook and Kobe but didnt give reasons. I was the one using facts and staying consistent while others like Heavincent were going by opinions.

[Ikill]

Guy.

Why are you using PER 36 to compare players in the same year who play extremely close to 36 minutes per game?

You're the only person in these threads using PER 36 that I've seen. What's wrong with you?

Westbrook had a better season than Wade. What part of that can't you understand?
I'm using per 36 because there stats are identical but wade is getting these stats more efficiently. He is scoring that 24 a game more efficiently he's getting those 5 assists with more turnovers and more blocks. Westbrook had the better season but I don't need per 36 to prove my point

[Ikill]

...
Westbrook: 23.6 PPG/5.5 APG (3.6 TOV)/4.6 RPG/1.7 SPG/0.3 BPG/ @35.3 MPG, 19.2 FGA, 45.7% FG.

Wade: 22.1 PPG/4.6 APG (2.6 TOV) /4.8 RPG/1.7 SPG/1.3 BPG @ 33.2 MPG, 17.1 FGA, 49.7% FG.


Westbrook: 22.9 PER/ 48.1% eFG%/ 53.8% TS%/ .163 WS/48/ 108 ORtg/ 105 DRtg

Wade: 26.3 PER/ 50.6% eFG%/ 55.9% TS%/ .227 WS/48/ 112 ORtg/ 99 DRtg

Give me Wade.

[BlackVVaves]

How does Westbrook and Kobe playing more games than Wade positively impact their stats?

Wade's stats are based off of the 49 games he played. He didn't get averaged in "0" for the 17 games he missed.

Using PER 36 is pointless when determining which player had a better season.

PPG || APG || RPG || BPG || SPG || TPG || FG% || 3PT % || TS% ||

Those are the only things needed when making a decision in these threads. Those stats are exact reflections of a player's production for a given season.

Cut out the nonsense man. I'm tired of typing the same thing. Westbrook had a better season. Wade, when last healthy, was the better player. But, based off recent playoff and season productions, Westbrook is more productive right now.

2010-2011 Wade was a top 5, maybe even top 3 player in the league.

2011-2012 Wade was not.

[BlackVVaves]

...

I stand corrected. That's two, not one, misguided souls throwing in PER to strengthen their argument.

[Ikill]

Wade has a higher ts %
Better assist to turnover ratio
Better TRB %
Better defensive rating

[Ikill]

How does Westbrook and Kobe playing more games than Wade positively impact their stats?

Wade's stats are based off of the 49 games he played. He didn't get averaged in "0" for the 17 games he missed.

Using PER 36 is pointless when determining which player had a better season.

PPG || APG || RPG || BPG || SPG || TPG || FG% || 3PT % || TS% ||

Those are the only things needed when making a decision in these threads. Those stats are exact reflections of a player's production for a given season.

Cut out the nonsense man. I'm tired of typing the same thing. Westbrook had a better season. Wade, when last healthy, was the better player. But, based off recent playoff and season productions, Westbrook is more productive right now.

2010-2011 Wade was a top 5, maybe even top 3 player in the league.

2011-2012 Wade was not.
They had better seasons but wade had better stats and was better player when healthy. So I pretty much agree with you

[BlackVVaves]

Wade has a higher ts %
Better assist to turnover ratio

All things I already outlined in this thread.



Better TRB %
Better defensive rating

TRB% means nothing to me, nor to many, many posters on this site. They both averaged 5 rebounds per game. Which means they averaged 5 rebounds per game.

Wade had a better defensive rating. Based on something else I pointed out, which was Wade is a vastly better help defender, while Westbrook is a better on-ball defender, but only slightly.

We are going in circles and its getting annoying, sorry. If you rank Wade higher than Westbrook, that is fine, like I've said three times now.

But not only is "it's not even close" wrong, but Westbrook had a better season than Wade last year. He was more impactful to his team, and was a better second option than Wade was. He was more consistent in his play, played all 66 games, and was the better player last year.

24, 6, 5 and 2 vs. 22, 5, 5, and 2

I won't even bring up the playoffs. Don't want to hear your excuses as to why Westbrook outperformed Wade in the postseason.

[Peteballa]

Wade

[Mike Barrett]

Meyers Leonard

[Legends66NBA7]

@BlackVVaves

Rondo > Westbrook/Wade for you ?

[Mike Rice]

Meyers Leonard

[kaiteng]

Derrick Rose. Barring injuries, he is the best outside those top 5.

[Ikill]

All things I already outlined in this thread.



TRB% means nothing to me, nor to many, many posters on this site. They both averaged 5 rebounds per game. Which means they averaged 5 rebounds per game.

Wade had a better defensive rating. Based on something else I pointed out, which was Wade is a vastly better help defender, while Westbrook is a better on-ball defender, but only slightly.

We are going in circles and its getting annoying, sorry. If you rank Wade higher than Westbrook, that is fine, like I've said three times now.

But not only is "it's not even close" wrong, but Westbrook had a better season than Wade last year. He was more impactful to his team, and was a better second option than Wade was. He was more consistent in his play, played all 66 games, and was the better player last year.

24, 6, 5 and 2 vs. 22, 5, 5, and 2

I won't even bring up the playoffs. Don't want to hear your excuses as to why Westbrook outperformed Wade in the postseason.
There playoff stats are pretty much the same aren't they? Westbrook averaged 27 points on 24 shots wades 23 point on 18 is easily better. I never said its not close I said they are close but wades a bit better in everyway.

[Notitlesince73]

wade

[Ikill]

If we are trying to find out who the better rebounder is per 36 and TRB are better ways than just rpg.

[Ikill]

When did I make excuses Blackwaves

[BlackVVaves]

@BlackVVaves

Rondo > Westbrook/Wade for you ?

You know, that's a hard question for me to answer. I think Westbrook overall had a better regular season than Rondo, and Wade (when healthy) is a better overall player than Rondo, yet Rondo (who had an individual bettet post-season than both of them) demonstrated that if that jumpshot becomes consistent, he's the best point guard in the NBA, and it wouldn't even be close at that point.

Likewise, if I was a GM and was starting a team, drafting between these three players at this current stage of each's career (Westbrook at 23, Rondo at 26, Wade at 30), I'd draft Rondo.

I guess the not-so-simple answer is, statistically last season, Westbrook > Rondo > Wade*** But in a vacuum where health isn't a factor, and assessing the best player based off capabilites and the ability to be engine for a team towards success, Wade > Rondo > Westbrook.



***Rondo -
12, 12, 5, and 2(steals) on 45%

Wade -
22, 5, 5, and 2(steals) on 50%

Westbrook -
24, 6, 5 and 2(steals) on 46%

[fpliii]

defensive rating is fairly useless for non-bigs (only relevant for defensive anchors)

best gauge for help defenders is probably blocks, steals, charges drawn (as weak as it is), since guys aren't credited for off-ball defense or double teams anywhere

as for on-ball defense, synergy's numbers against iso are probably the best best ATM, though 82games.com has some good stuff as well

[Young X]

Dwyane Wade.

[Maniak]

Westbrook

[b1imtf]

Wade

[dyna]

Wade

[webberz0044]

Wade

[NiHao]

Westbrook

[Shade8780]

Dwyane Wade, then Rajon Rondo, then Derrick Rose, then Russell Westbrook.

[arifgokcen]

wade

[riseagainst]

ffs, Rondo. FFS
:rant

[Papaya Petee]

Crippled and injured Wade is comfortably the 6th best player in the NBA.
Better then Westbrook.
Wait till he comes back healthy next year, it will be a similar recovery to 2008-2009 he will be back in the top 3.

[Ikill]

defensive rating is fairly useless for non-bigs (only relevant for defensive anchors)

best gauge for help defenders is probably blocks, steals, charges drawn (as weak as it is), since guys aren't credited for off-ball defense or double teams anywhere

as for on-ball defense, synergy's numbers against iso are probably the best best ATM, though 82games.com has some good stuff as well
can you post them for Wade and Westbrook

[Ikill]

there playoff stats are pretty much the same
Wade 23/5/4/2/1 53% ts 2.6 turnovers
Westbrook 23/6/6/2/0 51% ts 2.2 turnovers

I still dont understand whats so great about Westbrooks finals 27 points on 24 shots is terrible. 23 points on 18 shots is solid and easily better than Westbrooks efficiency. If Wade was taking 24 shots with the same efficiency he would be averaging 29.7 points during the finals.

[Dictator]

westbrook

[Ikill]

I guess this clown Blackwaves isnt going to coming back saying all this shit about me thats not true.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I think Westbrook is the only superstar in the league who can drive to the rim about 35 times in a game and get shoot 4 free throws.

If he got the superstar calls Bron and Wade get he would've had 50 , possibly 60 that night.

[Ikill]

I think Westbrook is the only superstar in the league who can drive to the rim about 35 times in a game and get shoot 4 free throws.

If he got the superstar calls Bron and Wade get he would've had 50 , possibly 60 that night.
Westbrook attempts 6.1 shots at rim averages 6.3 free throws
Wade averages 6.8 attempts at rim 6.1 averages free throws

I thought i was the one not using facts

[Ikill]

dude wants to call me out and not a stupid punk like Heavincent

[RRR3]

Thread ended.
Wade won.

Vote for #7 please

[Ikill]

I think Westbrook is the only superstar in the league who can drive to the rim about 35 times in a game and get shoot 4 free throws.

If he got the superstar calls Bron and Wade get he would've had 50 , possibly 60 that night.
now you got nothing to say

[Rubio2Gasol]

now you got nothing to say


The Dude drove 30 + times in one game and shot 4 free throws....I rest my case.........

Edit.: 3 free throws....from a 3 pointer.....

Never in NBA history will that happen ever again.

[Ikill]

The Dude drove 30 + times in one game and shot 4 free throws....I rest my case.........

Edit.: 3 free throws....from a 3 pointer.....

Never in NBA history will that happen ever again.
Westbrook attempts 6.1 shots at rim averages 6.3 free throws
Wade averages 6.8 attempts at rim 6.1 averages free throws

Wade attacks the basket more and gets less free throws you have no case

[Rubio2Gasol]

Westbrook attempts 6.1 shots at rim averages 6.3 free throws
Wade averages 6.8 attempts at rim 6.1 averages free throws

Wade attacks the basket more and gets less free throws you have no case

Wade was slow and garbage.

[Ikill]

Wade was slow and garbage.
Wade still averaged more attempts at rim that means he was attacking the basket more

[Rubio2Gasol]

Wade still averaged more attempts at rim that means he was attacking the basket more

Who cares? When he was playing Wade , Wade got the superstar calls and he didn't.

We all Saw Westbrook rape him on both ends.....yet Westbrook shot 5 free throws in games 4 and 5.

Wade shot 20.

Everyone saw it.

Just like Wade got the superstar calls in OT against Boston.

I'm done with this.

[Ikill]

Who cares? When he was playing Wade , Wade got the superstar calls and he didn't.

We all Saw Westbrook rape him on both ends.....yet Westbrook shot 5 free throws in games 4 and 5.

Wade shot 20.

Everyone saw it.

Just like Wade got the superstar calls in OT against Boston.

I'm done with this.
How did Westbrook rape Wade 23 points on 18 shots>>27 points on 24 shots Westbrook was terrible

[Ikill]

your done cause your wrong

[Ikill]

its funny how Blackwaves said i was the one not using facts :oldlol:

[Rubio2Gasol]

How did Westbrook rape Wade 23 points on 18 shots>>27 points on 24 shots Westbrook was terrible


Who cares? When he was playing Wade , Wade got the superstar calls and he didn't.

We all Saw Westbrook rape him on both ends.....yet Westbrook shot 5 free throws in games 4 and 5.

Wade shot 20.

Everyone saw it.

Just like Wade got the superstar calls in OT against Boston.

I'm done with this.

...

[Ikill]

...
Westbrook averaged 7 free throws in the finals Wade 8
wait Blackwaves i thought i was the one lying?

[Ikill]

what you gotta say now

[Rubio2Gasol]

All I have to say is I don't have time to debate with people like you who absorb basketball through google and box scores.

Anyone who watched the games will tell you Westbrook was better.

[Ikill]

All I have to say is I don't have time to debate with people like you who absorb basketball through google and box scores.

Anyone who watched the games will tell you Westbrook was better.
so in other words you lost i won