fact or fiction: poverty lends itself to obesity because eating healthy is expensive

[RidonKs]

i'm curious about opinions on this. my experience is that the cheapest living is on a predominantly vegetarian diet w/ the occasional meat thrown in a few times per week

just read a post in booze's thread once again propagating the idea that eating frozen shit and fast food is the cheapest way to go. it's certainly the least labour intensive and time is money or w/e, but speaking strictly about prices

thoughts?

[Raz]

Depends on where you live. If you live in Nunavut, frozen is the way to go, fresh is very expensive. Everywhere else, I'd say fresh vegetables. I can buy more than a week's worth of food in fruits and vegetables for under $50 for 2 people, easy

[Riley Martin]

In America and most developed countries today, yeah. But elsewhere, the poor are usually thin and malnourished.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/118/255868332_1a75250190_z.jpg

[DeuceWallaces]

No, eating shit is easier, not cheaper. Pasta, water, vegetables, rice, bread, and lean cuts of meat are not expensive.

[hoopaddict08]

Produce can get expensive. I love green grapes for example and just buying a bag of those when they're not on sale is around $5.00 for the bag. If you want a nice salad you're not buying iceberg lettuce and even if you are you have to buy all the extra stuff to put in it. Plus it has a shorter shelf life.

Anything any the natural foods selection is expensive.

The healthiest meat is expensive (I know because I work in a meat department).

Healthy living isn't cheap, and it doesn't always fill you up which means you might be eating more of it which costs even more money.

I don't eat fast food, and rarely eat anything frozen. But I can understand someone who is low income and has to feed their family. There are dollar menus and frozen meals that are store brand that are cheap.

[RidonKs]

lol let's say for the sake of argument that i'm talking about your standard western city, as opposed to surviving on a frozen tundra or a barren desert




No, eating shit is easier, not cheaper. Pasta, water, vegetables, rice, bread, and lean cuts of meat are not expensive.
pretty much. i guess i wasn't expecting much debate, that's doubles as the healthiest and the most economical... if not necessarily the tastiest, tho it easily can be if you know what you're doing

it amazes me how ingrained the opposite conclusion is though, that crap is cheap and raw isn't. yet i hear it all the time, the other thread only being the latest example.

[DeuceWallaces]

Even if you want to be lazy there are plenty of frozen meals like healthy choice and kashi that are cheap as hell, low cal, low fat, and high protein.

[KevinNYC]

If you are eating cheaply, a majority of your diet is processed food.

This is bound to affect what nutrients you are getting.


But the real question is do we really know what causes obesity?

[KevinNYC]

In America and most developed countries today, yeah. But elsewhere, the poor are usually thin and malnourished.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/118/255868332_1a75250190_z.jpg

There's nothing in that picture that suggest those people are malnourished.

[AK47DR91]

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/118/255868332_1a75250190_z.jpg
That dude in the far right.... :eek: That's levitation, Holmes!

[Raz]

Produce can get expensive. I love green grapes for example and just buying a bag of those when they're not on sale is around $5.00 for the bag. If you want a nice salad you're not buying iceberg lettuce and even if you are you have to buy all the extra stuff to put in it. Plus it has a shorter shelf life.


Stupid argument.

1. I love green grapes.
2. Green grapes can be expensive.
3. Eating healthy is expensive.

I'm glad you're just a poster on ISH and not someone making big decisions in the world.

Anyway, if you eat what's in season, and what's on special, you can make out like a bandit. A whole pumpkin goes a long way as does cauliflower or broccoli when they're on sale.

[miller-time]

But the real question is do we really know what causes obesity?

yeah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4YZiKbklAE

[lefthook00]

It has more to do with lack of education and class culture.

[DeuceWallaces]

If you are eating cheaply, a majority of your diet is processed food.

This is bound to affect what nutrients you are getting.


But the real question is do we really know what causes obesity?

That is definitely false.

[Cangri]

Watch this if you have time to spare, it's a pretty interesting documentary from HBO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pEkCbqN4uo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLv0Vsegmoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T24B6T-hp0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmcZRgWBdwQ

[Real Men Wear Green]

No, eating shit is easier, not cheaper. Pasta, water, vegetables, rice, bread, and lean cuts of meat are not expensive.There's almost nothing cheaper than white flour and sugar. You're right about it being easier much of the time but there are other factors like what's in your neighborhood store and how much the heads of a household know about nutrition. Some people just want a full belly and a mouthful of sweet, not thinking about the quality of what they consume. And here in the greater Boston area, there's no Whole Foods or Trader Joes in Dorchester and Roxbury, our black/hispanic cities or Southie, the poor white area, while Cambridge, Brookline, Allston, Brighton, North End and South end all have plenty.

[bdreason]

I think it has more to do with education and self control. Unhealthy food is just so available and affordable, that the average person is constantly tempted and steered towards unhealthy alternatives. I'd be interested to see if they have a stat for % of obese adults/children by region/city. I feel like, for the most part, I've lived in cities that promote a 'healthy' lifestyle. Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of fatties, but you are constantly surrounded by people who are in shape; running, biking, surfing, etc. and it's definitely contagious.

[DeuceWallaces]

There's almost nothing cheaper than white flour and sugar. You're right about it being easier much of the time but there are other factors like what's in your neighborhood store and how much the heads of a household know about nutrition. Some people just want a full belly and a mouthful of sweet, not thinking about the quality of what they consume. And here in the greater Boston area, there's no Whole Foods or Trader Joes in Dorchester and Roxbury, our black/hispanic cities or Southie, the poor white area, while Cambridge, Brookline, Allston, Brighton, North End and South end all have plenty.

THat has nothing to do with the question. I don't care if they're ignorant, it doesn't make eating healthy any more expensive.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Go out and get some f*cking exercise if you're only eating Top Ramen and off the dollar menu if your so "poor".

[G-train]

Lots of fat rich guys around. :D

[Scholar]

C'mon, guys. Use common sense here. Do you think everyone uses common sense?

Simple answer: No.

Some people are looking for a quick meal. Give a tramp, who isn't trying to buy alcohol or cigarettes, a $5 bill and I bet he'll go buy a $5 meal at McDonald's instead of going into a grocery store to buy $5 worth of food.

Just because you guys on this message board are saying that it can be affordable to buy healthier food doesn't mean everyone thinks that way.

Hell, I guarantee there are a few households that think, "Shit, well, I've got this paycheck. It's not much. Let me see here... If I buy this healthy shit, it'll last a week (maybe) but I won't be able to munch on my favorite fast food until the next paycheck. I guess I'll just buy one meal at Jack in the Box instead."
How do I know all this? I grew up poor. Fortunately, my entire family has very high metabolism, so none of us got fat, but I'll definitely vouch for the millions of other poor folks in this country alone who choose unhealthy food over healthy varieties simply because the unhealthy food is readily available and seems affordable.

**** it, though. I wish I saw this thread before getting baked. I feel like I have a lot of points to make, but I can't get them across too well in this state of mind.

[G-train]

I can only speak from an Australian point of view, but what the West calls poverty (renting a small area and a few hundred bucks a week), its cheaper to buy Mcdonalds than to go to super market and buy those ingredients to make burgers.
But there are other alternatives to eat obviously.
Most poor people that are fat don't exercise and just cant be bothered cooking stuff, just like they cant be bothered getting a job.
Poverty is a mindset in many ways.

[Randy]

You have $10 to spend to feed five people, what are you gonna get? Burgers or canned food at $1 each, or 5 oz. of spinach, a tomato, and an avocado? Produce is expensive as hell, and the quality is usually average at best. Whole Foods has the best quality produce around and it's 50-60% more than other chains, if not more.

[Real Men Wear Green]

THat has nothing to do with the question. I don't care if they're ignorant, it doesn't make eating healthy any more expensive.
Yes it does. Ignorance and poverty go hand in hand. That's not explicitly stated in the title but it's a fact that shouldn't be ignored.

[-p.tiddy-]

I try to eat as healthy as possible, all organic when I can...shopping organic only is very expensive...


America is one of the only countries where the poor are fat and the rich are skinny...so as far as the US goes, obviously poverty lends itself to obesity, there are stats to back it up...WHY it does can be debated I guess.

[Randy]

Slow vs fast metabolism is basically bullshit, a "fast" metabolism burns about 200 more calories a day. Metabolism has very, very, very little to do with rising obesity rates.

[tpols]

Yes it does. Ignorance and poverty go hand in hand. That's not explicitly stated in the title but it's a fact that shouldn't be ignored.
Yup.. a lot of poor people end up poor because they couldnt make the best out of the resources around them especially in places like the U.S.

And then you're going to expect them to create meals from scratch? The trend for their entire lives carries over and they will just go by something that takes no effort on their part to create.

[Myth]

That dude in the far right.... :eek: That's levitation, Holmes!

I noticed that too :lol

[knickballer]

Eating healthy or healthier is actually cheaper than eating at a fast food joint. People are just way too lazy and dumb to do anything about their obesity problems.

[DeuceWallaces]

Yes it does. Ignorance and poverty go hand in hand. That's not explicitly stated in the title but it's a fact that shouldn't be ignored.

The question posed is if it's too expensive, not whether the poor are too stupid to realize that it's not.

[KevinNYC]

That is definitely false.

Exactly what is false. Elucidate me.

[Dwade305]

Its a fact in most of America. Kinda blame those health classes in High school(urban areas), all they do is scare you about HIV and all those bad stds's, but never once teach about a healthy diet, so If your parents never were around to teach what and what not to eat your ****ed. Iam not talking about what they teach in elementary either, your too young to absorb that advice really.

[NotYetGreat]

I don't think it's so far off. The cheapest foods out there tend to be grains or made out of them, which, though said to be the food we should consume the most according to the fallacy that is the food pyramid, aren't as healthy as they are touted to be. Filling up on cheap, nutrition-leeching food mixed with a bad environment and inactivity will lend to a pretty unhealthy person. I think the malnourished look some people are saying here is an effect of long periods of going without food. Rice is a staple here (sometimes, we even have rice with our rice) and people from the lower SES, being that other food wouldn't be as available, tend to really be on the fatter side.

[Swaggin916]

Hahaha omg fiction... eating healthy is just boring.

chicken, rice, and veggies is cheap as hell. Fruit is fairly cheap if you like fruit, oatmeal, nuts... healthy food isn't expensive at all. Organic shit is what's expensive.

[Loneshot]

Hahaha omg fiction... eating healthy is just boring.

chicken, rice, and veggies is cheap as hell. Fruit is fairly cheap if you like fruit, oatmeal, nuts... healthy food isn't expensive at all. Organic shit is what's expensive.


True and false. Meat is expensive in many grocery stores i go to, unless you're getting small stripped up chicken pieces, and even that is about $6 or $7. So meat can vary. A bag of frozen veggies can be about a dollar, so that isn't so bad.

But fruit is the most expensive thing in any store from what i've seen. If i wanted to eat a snickers every day, i can find a deal almost any grocery store where they are 2 or 3 for a dollar, or mini size pack of 6 or 8 for a dollar. I can get only two apples most of the time for around a dollar. Soda usually only cost a dollar while juice that isn't full of corn syrup cost around three dollars.

As far as the question goes, i'd say poverty and lack of knowledge when it comes to nutrition is what leads to obesity among the less fortunate. I'll tell you this much, i eat a lot healthier when i have more money to spend.

[Raz]

You have $10 to spend to feed five people, what are you gonna get? Burgers or canned food at $1 each, or 5 oz. of spinach, a tomato, and an avocado? Produce is expensive as hell, and the quality is usually average at best. Whole Foods has the best quality produce around and it's 50-60% more than other chains, if not more.

How about a bag of rice, soy sauce, seasonal vegetables. That's not expensive at all.

I think a lot of you need an education in how to shop. Maybe I'll make a youtube video, it seems like there are a lot of dumb people out there, and I love you Randy, no homo of course, well maybe 11% homo

[Raz]

But fruit is the most expensive thing in any store from what i've seen. If i wanted to eat a snickers every day, i can find a deal almost any grocery store where they are 2 or 3 for a dollar, or mini size pack of 6 or 8 for a dollar. I can get only two apples most of the time for around a dollar. Soda usually only cost a dollar while juice that isn't full of corn syrup cost around three dollars.



Where do you live? It sounds like you have an in-depth knowledge of buying shit food, and no idea about buying produce.

You need to buy what is in season. Also, if you're poor, go buy your produce at Wal-Mart, it's insanely cheap there, I don't agree with supporting Wal-Mart, but eating healthy takes precedence.

[Tarik One]

Eating healthy or healthier is actually cheaper than eating at a fast food joint. People are just way too lazy and dumb to do anything about their obesity problems.

Yep. For instance, 2 large orders of fries costs roughly $3.75, which is equivalent to about 2-3 potatoes. You can purchase a 5 lb bag for that price at just about any supermarket.

[blablabla]

eating unhealthy is more accessible and tastes better(at least when you are addicted to fat and sugar)
just think about the amount of people that can't cook

[boozehound]

No, eating shit is easier, not cheaper. Pasta, water, vegetables, rice, bread, and lean cuts of meat are not expensive.
this. most of the healthy vegetables and whole grains you need are dirt cheap compared to processed and pre-packaged food. Not every meal needs to be asparagus in black truffle oil. Its a typical cop-out. My wife and I used to eat (well) on less than $25 a week total. Sure, we couldnt eat everything we wanted, but we ate very healthy and filling meals. can you feed yourself on fast food or packaged food from the store for 12.50 a week? thats just under 60 cents a meal.

[boozehound]

Some general comments responding to posts on this page

you can get chicken for anywhere from .59-.99 a pound (whole chickens). Considering how little meat you actually need in your diet, a 4-5lb chicken can be cut up and used in 7+ meals.

Organic can be expensive, but in many cases its not much more than the non-organic. But, the absolute cheapest way to get produce is at farmer's markets (especially in smaller cities and rural areas). Now, you can get anything and everything, but you can get a hella deal on seasonal veggies and fruits. and most of the time, it is organic (or organic methods).

A diet based on brown rice and a legume with additions of vegetables and small amounts of meat is incredibly healthy and dirt cheap. Even fruits like apples are dirt cheap. If you are willing to take the time to shop frugally and prepare your own meals, it is definitely cheaper to eat healthy than FF or frozen pizzas or whatever

[boozehound]

eating unhealthy is more accessible and tastes better(at least when you are addicted to fat and sugar)
just think about the amount of people that can't cook
its definitely an ease of access thing.

And, yes, we are predisposed to crave fats and sugars.

[DeuceWallaces]

Exactly what is false. Elucidate me.

If you're eating cheap you're eating processed.

Consider yourself elucidated.

[DeuceWallaces]

Even eating organic isn't that bad if you know what to buy. The biggest disparities between organic and conventional are with milk, orange juice, strip steak/rib eye, high end fish, bread, less common vegetables, and packaged items like granola bars, cereal, ice cream etc. The most important vegetables to get organic are thin skinned root veggies like carrots, potatoes, beets, which aren't priced too high.

Another trick I used to do when times were lean is to buy all organic at a standard supermarket with self checkout and just ring it up conventional.

[Snoop_Cat]

No, eating shit is easier, not cheaper. Pasta, water, vegetables, rice, bread, and lean cuts of meat are not expensive.

Exactly. You would think that this is common sense but people want to claim otherwise.

Like so many others have said, you can buy cheap and healthy foods for comparable prices to processed, frozen foods. Sometimes even cheaper. It's more so lazy people trying to make excuses for themselves that their poverty is compelling them to eat pizza rolls and drink Kool-Aid for every meal.

I'm a college student on a fairly limited budget since I need to pay all my own expenses. My staple diet consists of things like wheat bread, eggs, pasta, chicken, some veggies, etc. - all of which are cheaper/similar in price to things like Chef Boyardee. I also make use of sales that every grocery store has.

[Meticode]

It's part of the reason. Also accessability to healthy foods is another. If you go to the ghetto of a poor neighborhood the corners stores had loads of soda, candy bars, chips, etc. But no fruit or veggies or typically healthy foods.

[AlphaWolf24]

In America and most developed countries today, yeah. But elsewhere, the poor are usually thin and malnourished.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/118/255868332_1a75250190_z.jpg


no....that's actually looking healthy.


only in Murrica if your not 30lbs overweight = malnourished

[-p.tiddy-]

on another level (somewhat related)...I try my hardest to eat only organic meat which is expensive as hell...and I can't do it exclusively. It would require me to never eat out at work lunches, and constantly shop at only Whole Foods or other organic stores where other products I need are not found.

same with veggies even though those organics are usually found at all grocery stores...Cooking 3 meals a day "the real way" at home with truly healthy ingredients only is no easy task for anyone in this country, rich or poor...it takes true effort and determination...and MONEY.

[DCL]

adults in poverty might be less prone to work out or exercise regularly. they got enough problems to worry about how their bodies look.

[Bucket_Nakedz]

Eh... Its depends. Its not that simple, but all in all, poor decisions make people obese. Parents who mainly feed their children processed or fast food bullshiet should be locked p behind bars.

[boozehound]

It's part of the reason. Also accessability to healthy foods is another. If you go to the ghetto of a poor neighborhood the corners stores had loads of soda, candy bars, chips, etc. But no fruit or veggies or typically healthy foods.
food deserts definitely play a big role in this as well. But again, its more about convenience than actual direct costs of the food.

[Juges8932]

Eating healthy isn't expensive. Like Deuce pointed out, there are plenty of cheap foods that are both filling and healthier choices.

People are fat because they are lazy and have no self control. They don't want to have to work for anything in their lives; if they're fat it's because they "Don't have time to work out" or because "They were born this" or the classic "I have a thyroid problem" :oldlol: If I had a dollar for every time I heard some fatty say they have a thyroid problem... when it is a ridiculously low percentage of fat people who actually have a problem.

They just want to dual-wield their triple cheeseburger with extra bacon along with their fried chicken while sitting their lard ass on the couch watching TV and then complain about being fat. It's much easier to sit there and complain, coming up with a million different excuses as to why they are the way they are instead of being proactive about it and making an effort in changing.

They could absolutely buy healthier choices for even cheaper than the garbage food. Yes, going to an organic store is obviously going to be more expensive, but there are plenty of healthier choices in conventional food stores. But they don't have the self control to avoid those foods. And the sad thing is that they don't even have to avoid those foods completely- just have some God damn self control and not eat the whole God damn box at once.

The really sad thing is that if they just cleaned up their diet, they wouldn't even have to go to the gym if they are really that lazy and don't enjoy working out. Or if you are going to eat like shit, go work it off- although you still need to have some sense of moderation or you will still likely be a whale because if you are fat you obviously don't have the best genetics. And even if you aren't a fat ****, it doesn't mean you are healthy. If you want to eat like shit and don't want to work out, that's your choice- but then don't cry about being fat and how being natural is beautiful. ****er, that shit isn't natural. Or good Lord, I'm just "Curvy." No, ****er, curvy is J-LO- you're fat.

And then everybody in the world is some sympathizer and they have these whale support groups where a collection of fatties gets together to support themselves and tell each other how beautiful and natural they are.:facepalm
They talk about how much anorexia and bulimia are issues, but not about fat asses. Sorry, being fat is not normal and not healthy either.

It's just disappointing to see so many people making excuses instead of trying to be the change that they want to see. They all want some magic pill that will just shed the weight off for them without having to put forth an ounce of effort. If you work 80-hours a week and don't have time to workout? Ok, fine, that's understandable...but it still is no excuse for being fat. You don't have to make the poor dietary decisions that you are making. There is literally no good excuse for being fat unless you are in the small portion of the population that has a genetic condition. You don't have the best selection of healthy food around you? Fine, understandable, some places are poor or you don't have access to the best food. However, you still have access to physical exercise (you don't need a gym to go run; there are a million different workouts you can do without the need for a gym) and you still have the ability to exercise self control and eat moderate portions.

Why is it that other countries can be developed and have a bunch of nice things while not being fatties, but for some reason it is a huge problem in the US (and UK) where there is an abundance of tools around us here to prevent such a thing?

[Godzuki]

simple as eating poorly tastes better than eating healthy. duh :rolleyes:

altho its also hard to eat healthy on the run. most fast food, even restaurants, don't serve very healthy foods and almost everything is unhealthy that you can get.

[sunsfan1357]

Part of it might be that it's easier to find six fast food joints in the immediate vicinity of impoverished neighborhoods as opposed to a grocery store that has healthy food.

Realized that doesn't really answer the question, I was and still am able to eat relatively healthy on a small budget.

[JaggerCommaMick]

There's almost nothing cheaper than white flour and sugar..

Yeah but guess what mate, when you eat food with nutrients youll be hungry less often and therefore wont need to purchase food as frequently. Ultimately mate if youre not overeating, you wont get fat, even if youre eating junk, tho you may be malnourished. People get fat from a poor diet because they mistake their frequent hunger (and dehydration) as a signal for needing more calories when they need nutrients. So they just fill up with more cheap junk and the cycle repeats.

There aint no reason for any adult chap to eat poorly except that he just dont care. All the excuses KevinNYC and RealMenWearGreens will make for them is simply phony emotion-mongering they use every single time to absolve individuals of respinsibility for their own actions and instead misplace blame onto some social system, or traditional establishment. Its all part of some cross-gender mental disorder they have where they feel the need to mother and nurse every person in society who aint livin the high life, and create some elaborate conspiracy as to why the bloody chap aint able to handle his own business. These two blokes, mates, are the most wildly feminine and hypersensitive over-nurturers I ever seen on a bloody message board and one can only guess why. Maybe hormonal imbalance or childhood trauama, I dont rightly know mates, but something is certainly quite abnormal about their behavior. Their mental process is not that of a typical normal male with healthy esteem. Theyre a bit cukoo.

[JaggerCommaMick]

food deserts definitely play a big role in this as well. But again, its more about discipline, effort, pride, and self respect than actual direct costs of the food.


Fixed it for ya chap, youre welcome.


Just wait til you Yanks start subsidizing the health care of every fat slob in your gigantic country.

Funny thing is its a double whammy. They will cause premiums to go up, but will be the only ones who dont have to pay them.


You can thank chaps like KevinNYC and Real Men Wears Green, everyone. They decided other people dont need to be as responsible or work as hard as you do to deserve your money.

[boozehound]

Fixed it for ya chap, youre welcome.


Just wait til you Yanks start subsidizing the health care of every fat slob in your gigantic country.

Funny thing is its a double whammy. They will cause premiums to go up, but will be the only ones who dont have to pay them.


You can thank chaps like KevinNYC and Real Men Wears Green, everyone. They decided other people dont need to be as responsible or work as hard as you do to deserve your money.
wait, whats the healthcare system in "your" county? Oh yeah....


besides, so much of the issues are already subsidized since hospitals tend to write off the expenses generated by low income users without insurance or medicaid/care. hopefully, cheaper access to preventative care will curb some of the extreme costs associated with last minute emergency care.


The RW propoganda of increased costs is completely unfounded in reality. We already pay the highest healthcare costs in the world and get a middling return on it. Why not borrow from the more successful cheaper systems in place in every other industrialized nation?

Glad to see you back starface

[JaggerCommaMick]

Mate, in the first place the system in the motherland is basically the one you are trying to implement across the pond. The reason I am laughing is because you have exponentially higher obesity rates and a vastly higher popoulation. You think the federal government can effectively regulate something like healthcare in a country as vast as America with the same "efficiency" as tiny islands like England and Ireland? Mate, what is your excuse for grown adults not being able to make healthy choices and budget for their own medical expenses? You realize the reason Americans have so much bloody trouble affording healthcare is because they're all so bloody unhealthy that insurance pools cant keep up with the absurd demand for cholesterol medicine and hip replacements and pacemakers and even medication for nonsense afflicitions like heartburn that are covered by healthcare? Not to mention thousand dollar surgeries like the lapband which are literally for people who cannot stop themselves from overeating? Those cost everyone money, mate. Your country is ginormous and is infested with people who don't have any basic level of pride or will power. That's gonna sink your boat, mate. And because you don't have the bloody stones to point the finger at the real problems, you'll keep deluding yourself with cliches about evil corporations and how the middle class needs more this or more that from the government.

Mate, you are ruining your country by trying to collectivise it. Every generation people will slack more and more because you are giving them for free the surplus of equity built up by past generations as well as credit from future generations. You are convincing yourself that people who choose not to make a quality living for themselves are incapable of it. That is outright bollocks. It just makes you feel good to hand somethin to someone, even if you took it from someone else. Admit it, mate. You just don't have the guts to tell people to handle their business. You weren't born to be a father, but rather a mother. You want people to suckle your teets all bloody day, mate, because it validates you. You aren't secure enough in your ability to be a real man's man in a tough, unfair world. You need the emotional drug of idealogy to feel safe, despite the fact that it's slowly sinking you. There are too many people on your ship, mate. And the whole thing will drown in an hour if you don't throw some people overboard right now. But even the robbers, the crazies, and the unhealthy people who you wouldn't want to spend 5 minutes with on dry land, you dont have the guts to throw them off to save everyone else.

Think about this, mate. The developing world is using the same principles your country, and mine, used to use, to now catch up with us. But how are they catching up? In almost all facets of nature, advantages or leads naturally increase. The universe expands faster on the edges. The rich get richer. Societies that reach one milestone first tend to reach more and more milestones faster with time. You realize that there was a time people were flying airplanes in the west while aboriginal australians were still using stone tools they'd been using for thousands of years?

Countries are catching up to your dollar all over the place, mate, and that is not natural. It's because you started flucking around, mate. Your society didn't use to accept out of wedlock child birth, now single motherhood is practically a badge of honor. Guess what, single mothers are more likely to receive assistance. That costs money. Men are put in jail for failure to pay child support. More money. The USA has the highest crime rate in teh developed world. Those prisons cost money, mate.People choose to eat unhealthy. More money! Instead of being unaccepting of the cultures that produce crime and out of wedlock births, you've decided to be tolerant instead, at the expense of your own country. Mate, letting yourself get taken advantage of like that is like the woman who gets beat and keeps coming back, and somehow blames herself. Mate, look at these excuses you make at every turn for the bloke who don't eat right, who don't work, who don't take care of their children, who don't have education. 60 years ago there were no excuses, and America was the '97 Bulls. Can you believe that now you guys are falling to the middle of the pack, because you willfully lowered your standards to feel more in touch with your feminine side? That's pretty sickening, mate. I'll provide more perspective in a bit mate but for now I've got to run.

[DeuceWallaces]

You'd think he'd at least try and sound British beyond using the word mate. He also seems to have about as good a grip on national healthcare and global economics as the real Mick.

[baseketball4life]

No, eating shit is easier, not cheaper. Pasta, water, vegetables, rice, bread, and lean cuts of meat are not expensive.
this

[JaggerCommaMick]

You'd think he'd at least try and sound British beyond using the word mate. He also seems to have about as good a grip on national healthcare and global economics as the real Mick.


Whats your "grip" on it, lass? Havent seen you offer one. If you did I'm sure it'd be pure gibberubbish.

Now run along miss before your man comes home and gives you a lashing for trying to use the electronics reserved for men.

In all honesty chap you look as though you should be wearing a bonnet.

[resin_baller]

Too tired to make a really cogent post about this, so random thoughts:

REALLY poor people sometimes don't have the time or resources to cook food, because they don't have cooking equipment, or they work horrible hours, or some combination of the two. But most people aren't THAT poor, or if they are, they aren't working lots of hours.

"Food deserts," while real, are not as common or significant as the media and politicians would have you believe. They are a very minor cause of obesity.

The benefits of organic food are largely bullshit. There are certainly SOME benefits, but most of the health benefits are unsubstantiated or tiny. It's mostly a combination of back to nature woo and corporate marketing to exploit the middle classes who can afford the stuff. The best thing about whole foods is their bulk foods section, where you can get decent prices on brown rice, beans, oatmeal, and stuff like whole wheats, amaranth and quinoa if you know what to do with it. Most of whole foods should otherwise be avoided if you are on a budget, unless they have a big sale in the produce section. It's a shame that the aspects of organic food which ARE worthwhile are bundled together with all the nonsense in the current definition.

A big problem is people not knowing how, or not wanting, to cook. Another is the very idea that eating healthy is expensive, difficult, or bad tasting. Some level of fat in your food is okay. So is a little bit of sugar, even, as long as it's very limited(try to make it mostly from fresh or dried fruits, most fruit juices are only moderately better than soda). It's actually pretty easy to take a few ingredients and turn it into something that tastes better than fast food.

Yet another is the persistent lie that 8+ serving of carbohydrates a day is good for you. Shitloads of white rice, baked goods fortified with corn syrup, etc. A lot of this is because of agrobusiness and a lot of lawmakers being in bed, so subsidies and committees are created to promote the consumption and subsidization of as much of this stuff as possible. It's cheap and you're supposed to eat it, but it's not good.

Here's a bunch of stuff that's good and cheap.

Brown Rice: Add water and cook. Look up how, it's easy.
Eggs: Cook them however you like, look up how if you need to. Cheap protein and good fats.
Milk: Cheap protein. Avoid too much of it unless you WANT to gain weight.
Broccoli, cauliflower, kale, collard greens, mustard greens, brussel sprouts, etc: A lot of people don't like the flavors of this stuff, so try cooking it with a lot of strong flavors. Add soy sauce or cheddar to broccoli, add garlic and some red pepper flakes and fry up with bacon, olive oil, or whatever other fat you want for the greens and sprouts.
Beans: Dry is cheaper and healthier than canned. Soak them overnight, rinse and cook. Combined with rice you can do a lot with this.
Oats: Read the package, cause their are different kinds, but the plain stuff is all good. Most of the flavored packaged stuff has a lot of added sugar, and is more expensive too, so **** that. Add your own fruit instead, fresh or dried.
Nuts: Lots of protein and good fats. You can add some almonds to the oats too.
Packaged frozen chicken/fish: Yeah, this is the lowest of the low for meats, but if you prepare it right, it's still edible. Try it in a stir fry or some shit, or chop it up and cook it with some pasta(also cheap) and random italian-american flavors, tomatoes, cheese, or whatever, thats hard to **** up.
Canned Tuna: Don't eat too much of this, because it has often has trace amounts of mercury and other heavy metals. But a couple cans a week should be fine, and it's an awesome protein source. Add mayonnaise and celery(which is also cheap, and you can learn to do whit with it) for a sammich.
Carrots, potatoes, sweet potatoes: tons of carbs, but okay in moderation. Bake them, boil them, whatever. Carrots go well with broccoli and cauliflower for a vegetable side. Either way, these things are way better than french fries, and a freshly baked potato smells GOOD.
Frozen Spinach: Add some butter, or maybe cook in some milk and cheese if you have the right cheese, maybe some pepper flakes. Or cook plain. Healthy and fairly cheap.

A little more expensive, but can make things taste great:

Onions, shallots, garlic: these things have gone up in price lately, but knowing how to use them will seriously improve your cooking game. Combining onions with the celery and carrots I mentioned earlier is the base of a classical French flavor combination. Garlic has some good nutritional value too.
Fresh Chicken: Expensive a lot of the time, but reasonably priced at times too. But it whole or whatevers cheapest. Save the bones if you have the freezer space. You can use them to make a broth or soup.
Spices and herbs: If you're super poor, this may be too expensive, but if you have a few bucks, small containers of some select spices will last you a long time and let you make some awesome meals.

Other advice: go to the asian and mexican markets around town. A lot of them have way better prices than the american style supermarkets. Don't drink bottled water. Avoid soda. Limit fruit juice consumption. Get away from crap like frozen pizza.

[Pinkhearts]

I'm not poor nor fat (too skinny if anything), but I do eat unhealthy sometimes.

What you guys forget to factor in is time. All the posts here indicate you have to go shop for good groceries and prepare the food well to get healthy good tasting food.

Well screw that. If you are a busy worker busting your ass over 45 hours a week you don't want to spend too much time hunting for food. Especially lunch during work hours; it's much easier to walk into a fast food restaurant or eatery where they will serve cheap but unhealthy food to you. If you have to spend a couple extra hours a day shopping, cooking or preparing food? That time costs money my friends. If you earn $30 an hour that's $60 you can be making every day.

[Go Getter]

The question posed is if it's too expensive, not whether the poor are too stupid to realize that it's not.


I mean I don't want to be insulted or insult you but I disagree. To buy TRULY healthy food with no preservatives costs way more than buying average food at your everyday grocer.

Grass fed beef, all natural veggies and fruits, foodstuffs sans chemicals.....are all hard to acquire if you are poor.

Now, with that said, being poor doesn't mean you can't eat a salad instead of fries for lunch or have oatmeal instead of bacon and eggs for breakfast for example.

So in general I guess I agree with your sentiment.

[-p.tiddy-]

I'm not poor nor fat (too skinny if anything), but I do eat unhealthy sometimes.

What you guys forget to factor in is time. All the posts here indicate you have to go shop for good groceries and prepare the food well to get healthy good tasting food.

Well screw that. If you are a busy worker busting your ass over 45 hours a week you don't want to spend too much time hunting for food. Especially lunch during work hours; it's much easier to walk into a fast food restaurant or eatery where they will serve cheap but unhealthy food to you. If you have to spend a couple extra hours a day shopping, cooking or preparing food? That time costs money my friends. If you earn $30 an hour that's $60 you can be making every day.
Yep...eating completely healthy is much easier said than done.

I'm sure everyone posting in this thread eats a little crap food from time to time.

[lakers_forever]

Fiction. Here in Brazil, the economic growth is leading to more obese people.

I only eat junk food, soda and sweets saturday and sunday. Most days, I (and most people here) eat eat rice, beans (pasta instead of rice and beans once or twice a week), salad, meat and a glass of juice.

[boozehound]

I mean I don't want to be insulted or insult you but I disagree. To buy TRULY healthy food with no preservatives costs way more than buying average food at your everyday grocer.

Grass fed beef, all natural veggies and fruits, foodstuffs sans chemicals.....are all hard to acquire if you are poor.

Now, with that said, being poor doesn't mean you can't eat a salad instead of fries for lunch or have oatmeal instead of bacon and eggs for breakfast for example.

So in general I guess I agree with your sentiment.
preservatives? Not the word you are looking for. A truly healthy diet could consist of brown rice, a legume (bean, peas, lentils, etc), cabbage, carrots, sweet potato and eggs. dont get sucked into the whole buying organic is the only healthy way to eat angle, its clearly not.

[IGOTGAME]

preservatives? Not the word you are looking for. A truly healthy diet could consist of brown rice, a legume (bean, peas, lentils, etc), cabbage, carrots, sweet potato and eggs. dont get sucked into the whole buying organic is the only healthy way to eat angle, its clearly not.

This is very true.

But if your working legit 70 hour weeks with 45 minute commute than its hard ti eat healthy. For people time is money.

[hartyman]

This is very true.

But if your working legit 70 hour weeks with 45 minute commute than its hard ti eat healthy. For people time is money.

If one is working 70 h/w and doesn't make enough to afford healthy food then there is something wrong with the way people are paid for their work

[IGOTGAME]

If one is working 70 h/w and doesn't make enough to afford healthy food then there is something wrong with the way people are paid for their work

Idk, a friend of mine works 8-7 7 days a week.he has cash but no time to cook. In that situation it is tough to eat healthy. I see this a lot with people that work really long hours.

[boozehound]

Idk, a friend of mine works 8-7 7 days a week.he has cash but no time to cook. In that situation it is tough to eat healthy. I see this a lot with people that work really long hours.
what state are you in? Overtime laws should apply. Besides, since he works so much and has the cash, he really doesnt fit the OP criteria.

[-p.tiddy-]

People that work two jobs or extreme overtime usually do so because they have no money...

[-p.tiddy-]

preservatives? Not the word you are looking for. A truly healthy diet could consist of brown rice, a legume (bean, peas, lentils, etc), cabbage, carrots, sweet potato and eggs. dont get sucked into the whole buying organic is the only healthy way to eat angle, its clearly not.
It's the healthiest way...but maybe not the only way

All those things you just listed can come in an unhealthy form grown in all sorts of unnatural pesticides and chemicals and such...

[IGOTGAME]

what state are you in? Overtime laws should apply. Besides, since he works so much and has the cash, he really doesnt fit the OP criteria.
New York. Yea, guess he doesn't fit...I'm just saying time is an issue for some.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Fiction.

You can find cheap products that will allow you to eat healthy.

Maybe it's because I live in a city where I can find a Mexican or Asian food market pretty much every other block, but I can find good produce, good ingredients, and then hit FoodMax or Cost Less for fairly cheap lean cuts.

It's all about what you do with it all though. You can start out healthy and end up making an unhealthy dish. Poverty has nothing to do with it.

[JaggerCommaMick]

Idk, a friend of mine works 8-7 7 days a week.he has cash but no time to cook. In that situation it is tough to eat healthy. I see this a lot with people that work really long hours.


100% poppycock, mate. You can literally hard boil a dozen eggs in 10 minutes on a Sunday night and stick them in the fridge, available for grabbin quickly on one's way out the door each day. And if you have enough time to stop at McDonalds every day and wait in the drive-thru during rush hour, you have enough time to stop at the grocer once a week on your way home Sunday evening and stick a whole bunch of fruits and vegetables in a basket and drop them back off at your flat.

Oh, and mate, while those eggs are taking 10 minutes to boil, you can be bagging up daily portions of nuts and raisins and take 1 bag with you to work each day. Total prep time? About 5 bloody minutes. Lasts the whole week. And you can do this while you're hardboiling eggs for 10 minutes. Which lasts the whole week.

Furthermore, mate, just about every fast food restaurant these days has reasonably healthy options such as salads with grilled chicken, and apple slices instead of french fries. Even parfait yogurt.

Bottom line is, mate, some people just indulge in comfort food too much. Maybe that does increase when schedules are busier, but it aint because it's a greater inconvenience to purchase healthy foods, it's simply a greater escape to pig out on tasty junk. Call it what it is, mate, and stop with the excuses. How can you have time to stop in a fast food restaurant once a day (at least) but not a grocery store once a week? Even if that were the case, mate, and it aint, you don't have to over eat just because you are eating fast food. Get your burger with a lettuce wrap instead of a bun. I do, mate. Get a yogurt parfait instead of fries and get a water instead of cola. Simple over consumption of calories has a much greater affect on obesity than exactly how healthy your choices are. Fat people are mostly always fat because they eat too much, not because of what they eat.

Your excuse making with regards to dieting is nearly as bad as your excuse making for your spontaneous bouts of racial paranoia and delusion, mate. Sheesh!

[boozehound]

It's the healthiest way...but maybe not the only way

All those things you just listed can come in an unhealthy form grown in all sorts of unnatural pesticides and chemicals and such...
pesticides and shit are not the cause of the diseases of civilization (the main causes of death in the US). That point is entirely irrelevant. We are talking about eating a diet high in fiber, low in refined carbohydrates and fats, and with enough protein and micronutrients. that is what we mean by a healthy diet. The organic issue is neither here nor there in this debate.

[-p.tiddy-]

Lol @ "poppycock"

[-p.tiddy-]

pesticides and shit are not the cause of the diseases of civilization (the main causes of death in the US). That point is entirely irrelevant. We are talking about eating a diet high in fiber, low in refined carbohydrates and fats, and with enough protein and micronutrients. that is what we mean by a healthy diet. The organic issue is neither here nor there in this debate.
There are many that believe additives, preservatives, chemicals, hormones, etc in our food are the main cause of cancer in this country but yes it is beside the point of this thread...I was just sayin

[JaggerCommaMick]

There are many that believe additives, preservatives, chemicals, hormones, etc in our food are the main cause of cancer in this country but yes it is beside the point of this thread...I was just sayin


There is certainly a debate about that, mate, but possibly increasing cancer and other long term health risks is different than what is causing obesity right now.

People are obese right now because unhealthy albeit tasy food is readily available and they don't have the inclination, interest, or discipline to maintain a healthy diet. Simple as that.

The excuses are pathetic, mates. Guess what happens when someone gets the lapband? They lose weight. Always. Why? Because the lap band literally, physically prevents your stomach from being able to expand past a certain point, preventing you from overeating at any time. I'm sure plenty of the people who lost weight with the lapband still ate more junk than healthy stuff. But they simply could not physically eat too much.

The lap band is a surgical implant for people who don't simply have the discipline to stop themselves from eating. And it works every time. If you can't over eat, you do not gain weight. Period, period, period.

Outside of various, extremely unusual circumstances, obesity is caused by a lack of motivation to not be obese. The education is there today, mates. Even if someone don't have the advanced nutrition education, when you see yourself getting fatter, any person with common sense will know it's from eating too much. It aint a mystery.

Yanks with their bloody excuses for everything.