Can't believe 3 years of Kobe's prime were wasted

[Nick Young]

playing with Lamar Odom as his second best player:facepalm

Between 05-07 Kobe was in his prime skill and athletics wise and putting up streaks of 60 point games and even got 81 points and almost carried Luke Walton and Kwame Brown past the Phoenix suns in the playoffs. Prime Kobe was a once in a life time event that will never be witnessed again


Kobe was the greatest in the league but his roster let him down.

Now Kobe finally has teammates befitting of his talent, but it is in his old age when he is worn down athletically. Too bad we will never get to see prime Kobe playing with teammates like this, unlike for example Duncan who had elite teammates for his entire career (and only has 4 rings to show for it:lol )

[riseagainst]

:lol

[Rubio2Gasol]

That's the sole reason I'm not mad as hell at this BS. Wasted 3 years of his prime with Smush and Kwame

[Yung D-Will]

08 was the best Kobe I ever saw.

[fpliii]

08 was the best Kobe I ever saw.

this

[Nick Young]

08 was the best Kobe I ever saw.
08 Kobe was on a mission to win MVP, which makes sense seeing as it was a disgrace he didnt win MVP award the past 3 seasons before that, even his kids were showing up to games guilting the voters into choosing Kobe.

But 06 Kobe was a different animal, same beast. I don't think a player will ever get to the level of 06 Kobe again. Not only was he the best athlete in the league but he was hitting insane fadeaways with 2 hands in his face.

LUKE WALTON, CHRIS MIHM AND SMUSH PARKER WERE ALL STARTING AND KOBE STILL DRAGGED THOSE SCRUBS TO A WINNING RECORD.

[riseagainst]

2001, 2008, 2009 were the best Kobes I ever saw.

[Poetry]

Lamar Odom was a damn good swiss army knife player. He just never developed into the Scottie Pippen we all hoped he would. Don't mistake his current Kardashian output with what he once was. For some odd reason, i notice a lot of people underrating Odom on this forum. Odom was a solid second option. Teams would have killed to have him during 2004-2008.

[Nick Young]

Lamar Odom was a damn good swiss army knife player. He just never developed into the Scottie Pippen we all hoped he would. Don't mistake his current Kardashian output with what he once was. For some odd reason, i notice a lot of people underrating Odom on this forum. Odom was a solid second option. Teams would have killed to have him during 2004-2008.
In those days we needed a second scorer and some games Odom would put up like 7 points a game, others he would put up strings up 20 point games, exactly what we needed.

Until 2009 he was just too inconsistent, with his shooting, decision making and everything.

[Bigsmoke]

3 years :lol

tell that to guys like Iverson, Garnett, Hakeem, Moses Malone, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and much more guys

[roffie]

Odom was pretty sick back in the days. One of the more unique players for his size and a pretty good ball handler too.

[ImmortalD24]

Yung D-Will
08 was the best Kobe I ever saw.this 2006, 2007 and 2003 were all signifcantly better than 2008 Kobe Bryant. Notice how it's always non-Kobe fans propping up 2008 over 06-07. :lol

[Kews1]

Kobe got put into a winning situation when he got drafted and it's his own doing that he had to play with trash in his prime since he single handedly forced Shaq out of LA right as he hit his prime. And how precious can you be? 3 years! Are you ****ing serious? What about Kevin Garnett? He had scrubs for 10 or so years? Paul pierce? Had trash. Lebron James? Scrubs 7 years.

Kobe has has a lucky career if he only had 3 years of mediocre teams.

[Kews1]

3 years :lol

tell that to guys like Iverson, Garnett, Hakeem, Moses Malone, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and much more guys

Exactly!

[fpliii]

2006, 2007 and 2003 were all signifcantly better than 2008 Kobe Bryant. Notice how it's always non-Kobe fans propping up 2008 over 06-07. :lol

:facepalm

based on what?

[RaininTwos]

3 years :lol

tell that to guys like Iverson, Garnett, Hakeem, Moses Malone, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and much more guys
this

[Yung D-Will]

2006, 2007 and 2003 were all signifcantly better than 2008 Kobe Bryant. Notice how it's always non-Kobe fans propping up 2008 over 06-07. :lol

Because 08 I felt was his best all around game. 03-04 was his best defensive year and 06 was his best scoring year.

Does that mean his other seasons were impressive? No. That simply means his 08 season was the best I ever saw Kobe play

[Rubio2Gasol]

Kobe adapted in 08 to win and was rewarded for that , but 08 injured Kobe was not as good as healthy athletically prime Kobe.

[swag2011]

Kobe got put into a winning situation when he got drafted and it's his own doing that he had to play with trash in his prime since he single handedly forced Shaq out of LA right as he hit his prime. And how precious can you be? 3 years! Are you ****ing serious? What about Kevin Garnett? He had scrubs for 10 or so years? Paul pierce? Had trash. Lebron James? Scrubs 7 years.

Kobe has has a lucky career if he only had 3 years of mediocre teams.

Shut up. Kobe didn't force Shaq out. As it has been proven time and time again. Shaq wanted a big contract and Jerry Buss didn't want to give it to him. Shaq even stated this himself.

[Ne 1]

In those days we needed a second scorer and some games Odom would put up like 7 points a game, others he would put up strings up 20 point games, exactly what we needed.

Until 2009 he was just too inconsistent, with his shooting, decision making and everything.

Odom has always been the type of player that shows up once every 15 games. Hardly a consistent factor -- and really has no consistent offense if he's not in transition.

[DaSeba5]

Wow you guys are so spoiled. Poor D Wade.

[Kews1]

Shut up. Kobe didn't force Shaq out. As it has been proven time and time again. Shaq wanted a big contract and Jerry Buss didn't want to give it to him. Shaq even stated this himself.

Let's pretend it didnt even have a tiny bit to do with the Kobe vs Shaq war than shall we :facepalm

[Asiantastic]

Smush/Farmar
Kobe/Vujacic
Walton/George?
Odom/Cook
Kwame/Mihm

DAT TEAM

[ImmortalD24]

:facepalm

based on what? I've watched pretty much every single Lakers game (reg & playoffs) even well before that period (pre-1998 season). Only a handful of people have watched as much Laker games as I did during that span. Sometime in 2007 I made a thread on some Laker board predicting when Kobe finally gets help people will suddenly change their tune with the "making his teammates better" bullshit, and perhaps say he's better than ever. Just look at the team he had to carry to the playoffs..

This was his starting lineup:

Smush Parker - him - Luke Walton - Lamar Odom - Kwame Brown


Bench: Brian Cook - Devan George - Chris Mihm - young Sasha Vujacic - young Bynum


I highly highly doubt 2008 Kobe could carry that squad to the playoffs. Put 2006 Kobe in place of 2008, and there's no question in my mind that the Lakers get better. Only a flat-out Kobe hater would claim otherwise.

[fpliii]

I've watched pretty much every single Lakers game (reg & playoffs) even well before that period (pre-1998 season). Only a handful of people have watched as much Laker games as I did during that span. Sometime in 2007 I made a thread on some Laker board predicting when Kobe finally gets help people will suddenly change their tune with the "making his teammates better" bullshit, and perhaps say he's better than ever. Just look at the team he had to carry to the playoffs..

This was his starting lineup:

Smush Parker - him - Luke Walton - Lamar Odom - Kwame Brown


Bench: Brian Cook - Devan George - Chris Mihm - young Sasha Vujacic - young Bynum


I highly highly doubt 2008 Kobe could carry that squad to the playoffs. Put 2006 Kobe in place of 2008, and there's no question in my mind that the Lakers get better. Only a flat-out Kobe hater would claim otherwise.

you didn't make any argument or provide any specific, objective evidence tho

I'm not a Kobe hater...have him 6 or 7 all-time and supported that team from 96-04

08 was clearly his best all-around season

[KOBE143]

wastedprimebe :cry:

[ImmortalD24]

you didn't make any argument or provide any specific, objective evidence tho

I'm not a Kobe hater...have him 6 or 7 all-time and supported that team from 96-04

08 was clearly his best all-around season
:roll: :roll: :roll: Stop posting ******.

[Ne 1]

Shut up. Kobe didn't force Shaq out. As it has been proven time and time again. Shaq wanted a big contract and Jerry Buss didn't want to give it to him. Shaq even stated this himself.

I have no idea why people believe Kobe forced Shaq out. Shaq was 32 years, going into his 13th season and wanted 100 million for 4 years and Buss wasn't going to give it to him because he kept coming into camp out of shape and missing time for bogus injuries. Also don't forget "I got hurt on company time, I'll heal on company time". Read Shaq's book, he just used the Kobe excuse to force a trade.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

you didn't make any argument or provide any specific, objective evidence tho

I'm not a Kobe hater...have him 6 or 7 all-time and supported that team from 96-04

08 was clearly his best all-around season

Kobe was a better player in 2006 and 2007. '03 and '08 are a wash.

[fpliii]

:roll: :roll: :roll: Stop posting ******.

lol okay big man, you sure showed me

I obviously have no choice but concede to your well-established points as a result of your compelling debating skills :bowdown: :bowdown:

[ImmortalD24]

Kobe was a better player in 2006 and 2007. I'd take '08 Kobe over '03 though.
08 and 03 is a toss-up for me. 08 was better in the playoffs by a tad bit(due to 03 Kobe's nagging knee injury), and vice versa in the regular season.

[Kews1]

I have no idea why people believe Kobe forced Shaq out. Shaq was 32 years, going into his 13th season and wanted 100 million for 4 years and Buss wasn't going to give it to him because he kept coming into camp out of shape and missing time for bogus injuries. Also don't forget "I got hurt on company time, I'll heal on company time". Read Shaq's book, he just used the Kobe excuse to force a trade.

Well if I'm wrong I'll admit that, but even so I do not believe that the Kobe Shaq debacle did not contribute. And it doesn't change the premise that Kobe is exceptionally lucky to have played only 3 year with scrubs. Other players would be lucky to spend half of their careers with contenders.

[amfirst]

Odom was pretty sick back in the days. One of the more unique players for his size and a pretty good ball handler too.


yea but he didn't know how to use his skillset and barely put up much points as a 2nd option. The best I seen him play was 2010 before he got traded.

[ImmortalD24]

I got guns now fellas! Aint goin in a gun fight with butter knives no more.. I got guns now.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Ne 1]

you didn't make any argument or provide any specific, objective evidence tho

I'm not a Kobe hater...have him 6 or 7 all-time and supported that team from 96-04

08 was clearly his best all-around season

Kobe's decision making and maturity were on full displaying during his MVP season and while he didn't have the outrageous scoring outbursts like 06, I agree he played better all around.

2006 is arguably his peak, but you could argue that 2008 was as well. He was phenomenal both seasons, just different situations. I thought his defense in 2008 was at his best since the 3-peat(though his defense in 2006 was also good), and his passing/playmaking/game management/leadership was at it's best in 2008. I think he could've averaged 32-33 ppg at least if he wanted to in 2008, though actually averaging 35+ on good efficiency for that volume in 2006 and carrying his team to the playoffs and easily overachieving was pretty incredible.

[Calabis]

playing with Lamar Odom as his second best player:facepalm

Between 05-07 Kobe was in his prime skill and athletics wise and putting up streaks of 60 point games and even got 81 points and almost carried Luke Walton and Kwame Brown past the Phoenix suns in the playoffs. Prime Kobe was a once in a life time event that will never be witnessed again


Kobe was the greatest in the league but his roster let him down.

Now Kobe finally has teammates befitting of his talent, but it is in his old age when he is worn down athletically. Too bad we will never get to see prime Kobe playing with teammates like this, unlike for example Duncan who had elite teammates for his entire career (and only has 4 rings to show for it:lol )

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/2ai.gif

[Poetry]

Odom has always been the type of player that shows up once every 15 games. Hardly a consistent factor -- and really has no consistent offense if he's not in transition.

He's pretty consistent, considering the type of player he is. Not only that, overall he was efficient during that time.

If you're looking at only his offensive output, he might have 10-12 games a season where he scores less than 10 points. One year in particular during Kobe's prime, i recall him having around 20-22 games where he scored under 10 points.

But of those 20 games, the W/L split is pretty much even, either in one direction or the other.

And even when he scored 20+ they were prone to losing.

It doesn't fall on him.

He was the right second option to have.

They simply didn't put the right complimentary pieces around that particular team early enough and like other teams, the Lakers had to wait to land Gasol and develop then keep Bynum healthy.

[stax]

[QUOTE=Calabis]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/2ai.gif

[swag2011]

Let's pretend it didnt even have a tiny bit to do with the Kobe vs Shaq war than shall we :facepalm

not saying that it didn't contribute, but that post said that Kobe single handily forced Shaq out himself which was not true. It just makes all the Kobe haters agendas better, too bad it's false though.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2886927

He met with me at the Four Seasons Hotel here [in Newport Beach, Calif.] across from Fashion Island, which is now the Island Hotel," Bryant told Smith. "I went up to his penthouse suite. looks me dead in the face and says: 'Kobe, I am not going to re-sign Shaq. I am not about to pay him $30 million a year or $80 million over three years. No way in hell. I feel like he's getting older. His body is breaking down, and I don't want to pay that money to him when I can get value for him right now rather than wait.

[B]"This is my decision. It's independent of you. My mind is made up. It doesn't matter to me what you do in free agency because I do not want to pay [Shaq], period.'"

"Dr. Buss said that," Bryant told Smith. "And I haven't said anything for years because I've always felt like folks were just looking to create controversy. Now I know. I realize what extent [the Lakers] will go to, to cover themselves."

Reached afterward, O'Neal told Smith that he believed his former teammate to be beyond reproach.

"I believe Kobe 100 percent," O'Neal said when reached in Los Angeles. "Absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind Kobe is telling the truth. I believe him a thousand percent.

"I would have respected Dr. Buss more as a man if he would have told me that himself, because I know he said it. But he didn't [tell me]. He never said a damn word to me."

[Kews1]

not saying that it didn't contribute, but that post said that Kobe single handily forced Shaq out himself which was not true. It just makes all the Kobe haters agendas better, too bad it's false though.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2886927

He met with me at the Four Seasons Hotel here [in Newport Beach, Calif.] across from Fashion Island, which is now the Island Hotel," Bryant told Smith. "I went up to his penthouse suite. looks me dead in the face and says: 'Kobe, I am not going to re-sign Shaq. I am not about to pay him $30 million a year or $80 million over three years. No way in hell. I feel like he's getting older. His body is breaking down, and I don't want to pay that money to him when I can get value for him right now rather than wait.

[B]"This is my decision. It's independent of you. My mind is made up. It doesn't matter to me what you do in free agency because I do not want to pay [Shaq], period.'"

"Dr. Buss said that," Bryant told Smith. "And I haven't said anything for years because I've always felt like folks were just looking to create controversy. Now I know. I realize what extent [the Lakers] will go to, to cover themselves."

Reached afterward, O'Neal told Smith that he believed his former teammate to be beyond reproach.

"I believe Kobe 100 percent," O'Neal said when reached in Los Angeles. "Absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind Kobe is telling the truth. I believe him a thousand percent.

"I would have respected Dr. Buss more as a man if he would have told me that himself, because I know he said it. But he didn't [tell me]. He never said a damn word to me."

Fair enough :cheers:

[Ne 1]

.......

It's not easy to build a team around a 6'0" shooting guard who is at his best with 25+ shots per game. Philly's cast was ideal for that. AI is a very ball dominant player, so they surrounded him with pass-first, defensive minded players that could contribute without having the ball in their hands. How else do you build around an undersized SG? Its hard to do that, I think Larry Brown did as good a job as you can ask for.

Larry Brown always gets the most out of those types of teams, good defenders and rebounders who hustle and play hard. Look at the 2010 Bobcats, 6th worst offensive team in the league and nobody who you could call a true go to guy, yet they were the best defensive team in the league, they finished at 44-38, and they didn't even have the defensive personnel that Iverson's Sixers did. Fact is, Iverson had more success being surrounded with with pass-first, defensive minded players than he did playing with 20+ ppg scorers like Carmelo Anthony, Chris Webber (was past his prime, but he was still a 20/10/3 guy) and Jerry Stackhouse.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Let's pretend it didnt even have a tiny bit to do with the Kobe vs Shaq war than shall we :facepalm
I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

[Ikill]

07 and 08 Kobe were pretty much equal Kobe scored a bit more in 07 because he took more shots but his efficiency was the same. I think 08 Kobe was a better defender too and his team was the exact same for most of the season. They only had Gasol for 27 games

[Ikill]

yeah 08 Kobe was better

[Calabis]

:wtf: :wtf:

Quit reaching mfer....Kobetards talking about 3 years...if that's all his prime was, then Kobe isn't the player we thought he was is he....only GOAT listed player that had a 3 year prime:roll:

Kobetard=Excuses

[Duncan21formvp]

What type of thread is this? Kobe went straight to a franchise that was in 24 finals and won 11 titles before he even arrived and went to a franchise with a top 3/4 player in the league from the get go.

[Snoop_Cat]

3 years is NOTHING. Nearly every other year in his career, Kobe has been on a stacked championship contender. He is lucky to have one of the best front offices ever working with him.

Look at LeBron, his entire career until now he's been with underachievers and guys who were just not that good.

[Calabis]

3 years is NOTHING. Nearly every other year in his career, Kobe has been on a stacked championship contender. He is lucky to have one of the best front offices ever working with him.

Look at LeBron, his entire career until now he's been with underachievers and guys who were just not that good.

Nope only Kobe has had to suffer, those 3 years outweigh Lebrons stretch and any other superstars.....also before they make their case

Lebron: old washed up Shaq=prime dominant Shaq

Iverson: old washed up Webber=prime best offensive big Gasol

:roll:

[Kingwillball]

I know its a Travesty Kobe didn't have the Most stacked team around him EVERY year of his Career.. God Forbid..:facepalm

[Calabis]

I know its a Travesty Kobe didn't have the Most stacked team around him EVERY year of his Career.. God Forbid..:facepalm

but, but, but, but 3 seasons!!!!!!

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/lacry2/victoriascarediy.gif

[Ne 1]

:wtf:

Quit reaching mfer....Kobetards talking about 3 years...if that's all his prime was, then Kobe isn't the player we thought he was is he....only GOAT listed player that had a 3 year prime:roll:

Kobetard=Excuses

So stating the truth is reaching? "Kobetard"? Seriously, grow up. You honestly you sound like you're either a 5 year old or a high school dropout when you use "kobetard" as an insult.

All people are saying is that Kobe didn't have a great team around him for his absolute peak years, which is true. Kobe detractors always love to completely discredit his first 3 championships or put a qualifier on them because he played with prime Shaq but don't take into account his peak years were wasted as the "#1 option".

[BMOGEFan]

3 years is NOTHING. Nearly every other year in his career, Kobe has been on a stacked championship contender. He is lucky to have one of the best front offices ever working with him.

Look at LeBron, his entire career until now he's been with underachievers and guys who were just not that good.

Who was underachieving in the Cavs? I would say they were all overachievers.

[Ne 1]

There's certain things you learn and develop quicker when you are the #1 guy. In Kobe's case it would be his intelligence, passing (or rather willingness to do it), leadership, creativity (would definitely have to create more for others), skill, all of which improved rapidly when he was given the team. If he had this privilege since around 2001ish...one can only wonder how many 33+ ppg seasons we could have seen. He also would have had the chance to wait and have a championship contending team built around him so years like 2006 and 2007 (ages at which Jordan won rings...and prime ages for most players) wouldn't be completely wasted.

Ideal situation for maximizing your legacy is getting a chance to put up mind blowing stats early on in your career as you wait for your team to improve. If you lose in the playoffs, it's because of the cast so you're excused. Then as you get around 26-27, management should have put nice pieces around you (unless they f*ck up) and you are on a contender for your prime and late-prime years (as #1 option, which is key). Helps even more if the competition at the top of the league wanes as your team gets better. This gives you all those early individual accomplishments and then later on the team ones as well.

[Vertical-24]

Nope only Kobe has had to suffer, those 3 years outweigh Lebrons stretch and any other superstars.....also before they make their case

Lebron: old washed up Shaq=prime dominant Shaq

Iverson: old washed up Webber=prime best offensive big Gasol

:roll:

Yupp...putting up 20/10 is sooooo washed up. :facepalm

Kobe with a good team in 05-07 could've been instant title runs. Kobe's 3 years of horrible teams reminds me of Jordan's BS teams prior to the great Chicago teams of the 90s in condensed form. You could easily say many of Jordan's prime years were wasted :confusedshrug:

[Calabis]

Yupp...putting up 20/10 is sooooo washed up. :facepalm

Kobe with a good team in 05-07 could've been instant title runs. Kobe's 3 years of horrible teams reminds me of Jordan's BS teams prior to the great Chicago teams of the 90s in condensed form. You could easily say many of Jordan's prime years were wasted :confusedshrug:

:facepalm

Webber was no longer a force in the paint and nothing more than a mid range shooter, hence his 43% percentage, unless that's great low post offense in u'r book... BOLDED: which is everyone's point, how the hell are you going to cry about 3 wasted seasons, when other greats, never been in his situation once...using a 31 year old busted knees Webber 20/9 as some evidence is a joke...Iverson played with Webber :oldlol: while Kobe played with Prime Shaq, Gasol/Odom/Bynum/Artest, and now Nash/Artest/Gasol/Howard...yeah Kobe has had it so bad:facepalm

[Calabis]

So stating the truth is reaching? "Kobetard"? Seriously, grow up. You honestly you sound like you're either a 5 year old or a high school dropout when you use "kobetard" as an insult.

All people are saying is that Kobe didn't have a great team around him for his absolute peak years, which is true. Kobe detractors always love to completely discredit his first 3 championships or put a qualifier on them because he played with prime Shaq but don't take into account his peak years were wasted as the "#1 option".

Who gives a shit if he didn't have a great team around him at his peak, he had a great team around him when he came into the league which produced 3 chips. Whining about 3 years :facepalm really this shit is a joke, most of these NBA Stars are in that situation far longer than he has ever been, yet you mf'ers are the only ones complaining about a guy who has had one of the most fortunate careers of any player ever.

[Ne 1]

Yupp...putting up 20/10 is sooooo washed up. :facepalm

Kobe with a good team in 05-07 could've been instant title runs. Kobe's 3 years of horrible teams reminds me of Jordan's BS teams prior to the great Chicago teams of the 90s in condensed form. You could easily say many of Jordan's prime years were wasted :confusedshrug:

Exactly. Would have been like if Jordan wasted his absolute peak years (1990-1992 or 1991-1993) on scrub teams.

Peak Kobe winning titles would have greatly boosted his legacy.

[ihoopallday]

Who gives a shit if he didn't have a great team around him at his peak, he had a great team around him when he came into the league which produced 3 chips. Whining about 3 years :facepalm really this shit is a joke, most of these NBA Stars are in that situation far longer than he has ever been, yet you mf'ers are the only ones complaining about a guy who has had one of the most fortunate careers of any player ever.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Calabis]

Exactly. Would have been like if Jordan wasted his absolute peak years (1990-1992 or 1991-1993) on scrub teams.

No it wouldn't, because Jordan wasted years before Pippen/Grant developed...., he didn't come into a 50+ win team with the most dominant force in basketball, winning 3 chips....:wtf: is going on here

Kobe is now the only player who has wasted years:roll:

[Calabis]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Looking at 'r avy...that dude that came from Cleveland...he didn't waste years???:confusedshrug: Oh wait he played with old crusty Shaq, therefore his team was stacked :oldlol:

[kobeef24]

Honestly what's the point of this thread.... :facepalm

[TMacMagic]

Can't believe I wasted my time reading the OP's thread.

:facepalm

[Poetry]

I forget, did the Lakers get Bynum as a result of the 04-05 season...if so, i suppose some good came of those wasted years.

Certainly, it's a shame Kobe/Odom weren't surrounded with a good team then, but it all worked out in the Lakers' favor in the end. They were able to get themselves a nice little bargaining chip.

[Ne 1]

.....



Are you really this dense? I'm saying that Kobe, at his peak, would have enhanced his legacy had he won titles. The OP stated that he "wasted" his peak play. But either way in '06 and '07 he was able to showcase his individual play. '08, '09 and '10 he showcased his leadership and ability to lead a winner.




Gasol/Odom/Bynum/Artest

2008 he carried L.A. to the Finals with Gasol/Odom + scrubs. Ariza and Bynum were injured.

Gasol was a top 20 player and Odom was a role player

In '09 he won with essentially Gasol/Odom/Ariza

Gasol was a very good, top 15 player and nothing more.

Odom was a solid third fiddle/role-player

Ariza was a role player

The Lakers bench was crap, Bynum put up 6/4 and Fisher might have been the worst starting PG at that point of his career

2010-

Gasol: solid season, top 15 player, great playoff run

Artest: shell of his former self....dont get me wrong he was still good defensively but his man-to-man defense meant little in 2-4 series, and we're talking about perhaps the worst offensive starting SF in the league.

Odom: Struggled all season, role-player and nothing more.

Fisher: worst starting PG in the nba

Bynum: put up 7/6 in the playoffs

bench- among the worst in the league

3-point shooting....24th in the league

If the 2008-2010 Lakers were so incredibly stacked then Kobe wouldn't have had to put up 30/6/6, 30/5/6 and 29/6/6 during the Lakers 3 Finals runs.

[Heavincent]

Whining about 3 years :facepalm really this shit is a joke, most of these NBA Stars are in that situation far longer than he has ever been, yet you mf'ers are the only ones complaining about a guy who has had one of the most fortunate careers of any player ever.

So? Jordan, Bird, Shaq, Magic, and Kareem were really just as lucky as Kobe :confusedshrug:

[Rubio2Gasol]

Honestly for me the only thing that makes sense about this thread is that people often try to discredit Kobe as a sidekick, when his prime was wasted on a team that no human could win a chip with.

Same as KG and that Slikk guy.

Kobe actually won a chip with a relatively weak team.

But even there, his 3 peat is looked down upon despite him being a top 2 player in the league if all those years are cumulatively counted.

But other than that....Garnett, Iverson, Hakeem all had it worse. Hakeem might be the GOAT if he had the level of teams Kobe's had throughout his career....I mean....how do you take take out GOAT teams like the 80's Lakers and Celts with Sampson + Scrubs :pimp:

[get these NETS]

playing with Lamar Odom as his second best player:facepalm

Between 05-07 Kobe was in his prime skill and athletics wise and putting up streaks of 60 point games and even got 81 points and almost carried Luke Walton and Kwame Brown past the Phoenix suns in the playoffs. Prime Kobe was a once in a life time event that will never be witnessed again


Kobe was the greatest in the league but his roster let him down.

Now Kobe finally has teammates befitting of his talent, but it is in his old age when he is worn down athletically. Too bad we will never get to see prime Kobe playing with teammates like this, unlike for example Duncan who had elite teammates for his entire career (and only has 4 rings to show for it:lol )

those years weren't wasted..Kobe wanted to be "iverson" or "tmac"...gunning all day scoring a whole lot of points and carrying the team on his back


padded his career stats during those years

[Calabis]

Are you really this dense? I'm saying that Kobe, at his peak, would have enhanced his legacy had he won titles. The OP stated that he "wasted" his peak play. But either way in '06 and '07 he was able to showcase his individual play. '08, '09 and '10 he showcased his leadership and ability to lead a winner.





2008 he carried L.A. to the Finals with Gasol/Odom + scrubs. Ariza and Bynum were injured.

Gasol was a top 20 player and Odom was a role player

In '09 he won with essentially Gasol/Odom/Ariza

Gasol was a very good, top 15 player and nothing more.

Odom was a solid third fiddle/role-player

Ariza was a role player

The Lakers bench was crap, Bynum put up 6/4 and Fisher might have been the worst starting PG at that point of his career

2010-

Gasol: solid season, top 15 player, great playoff run

Artest: shell of his former self....dont get me wrong he was still good defensively but his man-to-man defense meant little in 2-4 series, and we're talking about perhaps the worst offensive starting SF in the league.

Odom: Struggled all season, role-player and nothing more.

Fisher: worst starting PG in the nba

Bynum: put up 7/6 in the playoffs

bench- among the worst in the league

3-point shooting....24th in the league

If the 2008-2010 Lakers were so incredibly stacked then Kobe wouldn't have had to put up 30/6/6, 30/5/6 and 29/6/6 during the Lakers 3 Finals runs.

Are you really this dense, that's the question? No one gives a shit about what ifs? If that's the case, What if Jordan had Magic and Birds stacked teams early on, What if Lebron came into a team 50+ win team with a dominant Shaq, What if Hakeem had a team around him his entire prime, what if Barkley was playing with other studs

What if Bryant doesn't play with dominant Shaq and is playing for a lottery team....does he become the Bryant we know today....does he even have the prime he has had? Does he fall apart due to being the opposing teams main focus from his rookie year on, does this burden damage him mentally? Does this lead to injuries earlier on? Does this lead to Kobe being just another great player with no rings?

What we do know factually, is that Kobe was allowed time to develop, coming off the bench, he was hardly the opposing teams main focus on defense, his burden was no where near what others have had, being the sole star from Day 1, he gains valuable NBA knowledge, by being involved in playoff series and finals(3 chips) all while being the second best player on his team....he gets all these benefits/exp. prior to this mythical 3 year wasted window.. :confusedshrug: oh ok, instead of 17 years with the best or close to it/highest payrol'd teams he has only had 14, poor Kobe :cry:

No one cares about your personal garbage rankings of his teammates, Gasol best offensive big in the league, him and Bynum blocked or changed shots throughout those runs, Odom best multi position 6th man in league, those three provided the biggest/best front court in the league....include Fisher's clutch shooting and his teams have always been top tier

[Calabis]

So? Jordan, Bird, Shaq, Magic, and Kareem were really just as lucky as Kobe :confusedshrug:

WTF are you babbling about? Show me any fans of those players starting threads crying about wasted years? And Jordan wasted 5-6 seasons of his career waiting for talent to develop if we are playing the crying game

[ihoopallday]

Are you really this dense, that's the question? No one gives a shit about what ifs? If that's the case, What if Jordan had Magic and Birds stacked teams early on, What if Lebron came into a team 50+ win team with a dominant Shaq, What if Hakeem had a team around him his entire prime, what if Barkley was playing with other studs

What if Bryant doesn't play with dominant Shaq and is playing for a lottery team....does he become the Bryant we know today....does he even have the prime he has had? Does he fall apart due to being the opposing teams main focus from his rookie year on, does this burden damage him mentally? Does this lead to injuries earlier on? Does this lead to Kobe being just another great player with no rings?

What we do know factually, is that Kobe was allowed time to develop, coming off the bench, he was hardly the opposing teams main focus on defense, his burden was no where near what others have had, being the sole star from Day 1, he gains valuable NBA knowledge, by being involved in playoff series and finals(3 chips) all while being the second best player on his team....he gets all these benefits/exp. prior to this mythical 3 year wasted window.. :confusedshrug: oh ok, instead of 17 years with the best or close to it/highest payrol'd teams he has only had 14, poor Kobe :cry:

No one cares about your personal garbage rankings of his teammates, Gasol best offensive big in the league, him and Bynum blocked or changed shots throughout those runs, Odom best multi position 6th man in league, those three provided the biggest/best front court in the league....include Fisher's clutch shooting and his teams have always been top tier


:bowdown: Let's go home ladies and gentleman. ::bowdown:

[Djahjaga]

Do you think Kobe would have put up those ridiculous numbers if he had a good team around him? No team should ever require their leader to drop 81 points, barring injuries, to win a game. It sounds like some of you want it both ways -- for Kobe to have had a great squad and to still average 35 ppg.

To be frank, 3 years of a terrible team (and it was a terrible team) is not as bad as some superstars have had it. Kobe walked into his rookie year with Shaq, Van Exel, Jones, Fisher, Horry, Campbell, and Ceballos. Those are already much better teammates than most lottery picks have 5 years into their careers. Even if he just had Shaq, that's still a ridiculously fortunate situation to find yourself in (whether or not it was of his doing is still questionable in my mind. I've heard that he and his agent told teams not to bother drafting him, as he would only play for the Lakers).

When teams rebuild, it usually takes more than 3 years to go from bottom of the barrel to 3 straight finals appearances. What did you want? For Kobe to be playing on contenders every single year of his career, which he started as a teenager? That's ridiculous.



In any case, I'm of the opinion that his 03 year was his best. He put up 30/6/7/2 on good 55 TS with Shaq also averaging 28 ppg. And this was during HAND CHECKING. Just because he wasn't putting up 40 points every other night doesn't make this year worse than his 06 year. And it doesn't make someone an idiot to think this year was better than 06, where he literally shot the ball 30-40 times sometimes, because his squad was straight up garbage.


tl;dr 3 years wasn't that big of a deal. '03 Kobe was a beast.

[Ikill]

Yupp...putting up 20/10 is sooooo washed up. :facepalm

Kobe with a good team in 05-07 could've been instant title runs. Kobe's 3 years of horrible teams reminds me of Jordan's BS teams prior to the great Chicago teams of the 90s in condensed form. You could easily say many of Jordan's prime years were wasted :confusedshrug:
20 points on 19 shots is terrible

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe fans again showing why they are the lowest of the low. Dude goes 3 years with a poor cast out of his entire 16 year career and they act like no other star player has ever had worse casts, or poor casts for longer periods of time, especially as a percentage of their total career. What a joke.

[Ne 1]

There's certain things you learn and develop quicker when you are the #1 guy. In Kobe's case it would be his intelligence, passing (or rather willingness to do it), leadership, creativity (would definitely have to create more for others), skill, all of which improved rapidly when he was given the team. If he had this privilege since around 2001ish...one can only wonder how many 33+ ppg seasons we could have seen. He also would have had the chance to wait and have a championship contending team built around him so years like 2006 and 2007 (ages at which Jordan won rings...and prime ages for most players) wouldn't be completely wasted.

Ideal situation for maximizing your legacy is getting a chance to put up mind blowing stats early on in your career as you wait for your team to improve. If you lose in the playoffs, it's because of the cast so you're excused. Then as you get around 26-27, management should have put nice pieces around you (unless they f*ck up) and you are on a contender for your prime and late-prime years (as #1 option, which is key). Helps even more if the competition at the top of the league wanes as your team gets better. This gives you all those early individual accomplishments and then later on the team ones as well.

[IGOTGAME]

Kobe fans again showing why they are the lowest of the low. Dude goes 3 years with a poor cast out of his entire 16 year career and they act like no other star player has ever had worse casts, or poor casts for longer periods of time, especially as a percentage of their total career. What a joke.
It is just unfortunate bc that is when it all came together. Kobe was drastically physically declining by 08 and he was slower in 07. 06 was he year he had it all and I'm curious what he would have done with a descent team.

[RRR3]

This thread :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Poor Kobe, didn't have a stacked team for 3 years of his 17 :cry: :cry: :cry:
Tell that to guys like Allen Iverson, T-Mac, Vince Carter, Minnesota KG, Cleveland LBJ, pre-big 3 Paul Pierce, etc. :facepalm

[BrickingStar]

LeBrons wasted some time too :lol bitchmade thread

[Nash]

Lol, only 3 years? I think any guy in the history of the NBA would take 3 years of wasted years if he gets a contender the rest of the years.

[ihoopallday]

Lol, only 3 years? I think any guy in the history of the NBA would take 3 years of wasted years if he gets a contender the rest of the years.

This. :applause:

[OldSchoolBBall]

It is just unfortunate bc that is when it all came together. Kobe was drastically physically declining by 08 and he was slower in 07. 06 was he year he had it all and I'm curious what he would have done with a descent team.

The point is that you can say this about any number of players. What if '90-'93 Hakeem had a great cast around him? What if Barkley had a good cast from '88-'92? What if the Tmac and Hill dream had actually been realized in Orlando and Tmac wasn't surrounded by garbage? What if MJ had his '91-'93 cast around him back in '87-'90?

Why should we care about this unfortunate situation more for Kobe than for other players, many of whom had worse casts and/or poor casts for longer periods of time?

[rmt]

playing with Lamar Odom as his second best player:facepalm

Between 05-07 Kobe was in his prime skill and athletics wise and putting up streaks of 60 point games and even got 81 points and almost carried Luke Walton and Kwame Brown past the Phoenix suns in the playoffs. Prime Kobe was a once in a life time event that will never be witnessed again


Kobe was the greatest in the league but his roster let him down.

Now Kobe finally has teammates befitting of his talent, but it is in his old age when he is worn down athletically. Too bad we will never get to see prime Kobe playing with teammates like this, unlike for example Duncan who had elite teammates for his entire career (and only has 4 rings to show for it:lol )

Cry me a river. Can't believe that fans like you have the nerve to be whining/complaining about Kobe's team mates. Here's the list: MDE Shaq in his prime, Gasol in his prime, Dwight Howard in his prime, Karl Malone, Steve Nash, Ron Artest, Gary Payton - sounds like a stroll down basketball HOF. I'm sure that Duncan would trade in a heartbeat Parker and Ginobili for Kobe's team mates.

Kobe has benefitted greatly from being able to attain and retain (because Howard's going to cost a bundle to resign) team mates because of the Laker name/tradition, Buss's willingness to spend, big (Hollywood) city to attract players. Compare that to backwaters like Oklahoma City or San Antonio where no player wants to go, ticket prices are probably half what they are in LA and they trade away talent like Scola (to get rid of a bad contract) because the owner is so cheap he doesn't want to pay luxury tax.

Unlike Kobe, Duncan never won on the back of a top 10 GOAT. He won all his 4 rings without an all-NBA team mate.

[BlueandGold]

Lol, only 3 years? I think any guy in the history of the NBA would take 3 years of wasted years if he gets a contender the rest of the years.
Your peak prime is only about 3-5 years.. most of Kobe's absolute peak was wasted with terrible Laker teams.. 75% of his 2006 team isn't even in the league anymore.

But yea :facepalm at this thread.. could be a lot worse.. but still would be nice how 05-08 Kobe, especially 06, would have done in the playoffs with anybody remotely good.

[tmacattack33]

playing with Lamar Odom as his second best player:facepalm

Between 05-07 Kobe was in his prime skill and athletics wise and putting up streaks of 60 point games and even got 81 points and almost carried Luke Walton and Kwame Brown past the Phoenix suns in the playoffs. Prime Kobe was a once in a life time event that will never be witnessed again


Kobe was the greatest in the league but his roster let him down.

Now Kobe finally has teammates befitting of his talent, but it is in his old age when he is worn down athletically. Too bad we will never get to see prime Kobe playing with teammates like this, unlike for example Duncan who had elite teammates for his entire career (and only has 4 rings to show for it:lol )

That's the second dumbest thing i've read here all week. Congratulations.

Kobe is the luckiest player in the league right now in terms of teammates he has had the luxury of playing besides, except for maybe Derek Fisher (in the 2 yrs he was apart from LA around 2007, he was playing with Deron, Boozer, and Kirilenko and them which was a pretty good team).

[Legends66NBA7]

While Kobe's "stacked" teams can be that of an exaggeration at times, for one being who he is and who he plays for, the OP is an idiot.

They've been far less fortunate players and while Kobe would still be great, how many players are getting this type of help around the later stages of their careers ?

Come on man, get real.