How do 6'8-6'11" dudes move like guards?

[jack612blue]

6'8"-Lebron

6'11"- Amare.


I mean if you picked out two random dudes who are at this height, they would be awkward and clumsy, is it genetics that determine how one can move about physiologically?

[BrickingStar]

dsfghgghfgh

[kurt_rambis]

partly genetics, partly playing from an early age....learning guard types skills while you're still at a relatively normal height

but nba guys are pretty nuts. most people over 7ft tall have trouble walking. don't know how they play 80+ games a year without falling apart

[RazorBaLade]

WORLD class athletes and genetics

im talking 4 billion men... theres like 30 that can do this. Its insane!

[jack612blue]

WORLD class athletes and genetics

im talking 4 billion men... theres like 30 that can do this. Its insane!
not really. I'm sure there are plenty of elite athletes out there that never played basketball due to circumstances.

[KG215]

Hell, even your average person that's in the 6'4"-6'6" range can be a little clumsy and awkward; or, at the very least, they don't even come even a tiny bit close to being able to move like someone like Jordan, Kobe, D-Wade, etc.

Then you got SF's and PF's in the 6'8"-6'11" range moving, running, and jumping like LeBron and Durant. Yes, part of that is because of hardwork growing up on agility training and workouts, but part of it also because they won the genetic lottery. That's why, out of billions of people, only a tiny percentage of them exist.

[PistolPete44]

Soon Wilt Chamberlain will be described as "having trouble walking" , "clumsy"

[KG215]

WORLD class athletes and genetics

im talking 4 billion men... theres like 30 that can do this. Its insane!

I guess you didn't watch much of the Olympics these last 2 weeks did you? It's not just basketball players. There were plenty of male volleyball players in that 6'6"-6'10" range who were very agile and quick, and could also jump very well. I know volleyball is thought of as more of a female sport, but the guys that play are big and freakishly athletic for their size, too. Water polo players tend to be pretty big also.

[BrickingStar]

having 3 legs is somewhat of an advantage

[RazorBaLade]

not really. I'm sure there are plenty of elite athletes out there that never played basketball due to circumstances.


I guess you didn't watch much of the Olympics these last 2 weeks did you? It's not just basketball players. There were plenty of male volleyball players in that 6'6"-6'10" range who were very agile and quick, and could also jump very well.

yeah 30 was a retarded number. Im sorry. Its obviously way more. But its probably basically like the top 1% of all males though I would bet.

[SourPatchKids]

not really. I'm sure there are plenty of elite athletes out there that never played basketball due to circumstances.
The little MJ that couldn't.

[BrickingStar]

I guess you didn't watch much of the Olympics these last 2 weeks did you? It's not just basketball players. There were plenty of male volleyball players in that 6'6"-6'10" range who were very agile and quick, and could also jump very well. I know volleyball is thought of as more of a female sport, but the guys that play are big and freakishly athletic for their size, too. Water polo players tend to be pretty big also.

I did and they are no where near Lebron or stout. Please link me to one that's actually moving like they are and not just 4-6 feet range and dives on the sand

[RazorBaLade]

not really. I'm sure there are plenty of elite athletes out there that never played basketball due to circumstances.

that argument is kind of pointless though because we'll never know. Yes we can say theres hundreds of kids that were smarter than einstein but shit happened and they never left their barns and did work but at the end of the day these are still the top 1% of billions of specimens.

[KG215]

I did and they are no where near Lebron or stout. Please link me to one that's actually moving like they are and not just 4-6 feet range and dives on the sand

I'm talking more about the indoor volleyball players. And I didn't say they were as athletic as LeBron. My point was that, for their size, they were very athletic.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Lebron James is a freak of nature.

[BrickingStar]

I'm talking more about the indoor volleyball players. And I didn't say they were as athletic as LeBron. My point was that, for their size, they were very athletic.
They are indeed but that's not no where near out of the norm like lebron or stout they do have some goat reactions and are athletic like any athlete should at their size but overall what I saw was average leaping like any volleyball player and their size made it look better and average speed in a small radius nothing more. So razors starement remaiins true except it should be a higher number but the class he is talking about do not include these volleyball players were trying to be more specific and near those 2 nut just athletic tall players.




and big sausages

[midatlantic09]

If I were 6'9 right now, I'd be in the NBA. Unfortunately, I'm not 6'9.

I have the skills but not the height for things to work out right.

[RazorBaLade]

If I were 6'9 right now, I'd be in the NBA. Unfortunately, I'm not 6'9.

I have the skills but not the height for things to work out right.

I KNOW RIGHT?!

If I was like 6'7+ I could at least try, give it my best. But I am 6..... and I don't play pg. Ugh.

[T-Time3]

partly genetics, partly playing from an early age....learning guard types skills while you're still at a relatively normal height

but nba guys are pretty nuts. most people over 7ft tall have trouble walking. don't know how they play 80+ games a year without falling apart

Exactly what i'm gone say.
They learn to train their guard skills when they were younger.
And yeah,most people who is > 6'9 has a bit awkward walking form.
Hell did anyone saw how Shaq walk in his celtic days? His walking form is awful as hell, looked like somebody who broke his leg but still running to finish a marathon race.
I kid u not

[BrickingStar]

If I were 6'9 right now, I'd be in the NBA. Unfortunately, I'm not 6'9.

I have the skills but not the height for things to work out right.
Implying those skills remain the same when your such a height :biggums:

[BrickingStar]

Exactly what i'm gone say.
They learn to train their guard skills when they were younger.
And yeah,most people who is > 6'9 has a bit awkward walking form.
Hell did anyone saw how Shaq walk in his celtic days? His walking form is awful as hell, looked like somebody who broke his leg but still running to finish a marathon race.
I kid u not
LeBron got lucky. He lived in Akron (not much to do poor ass place) and had a crack head of a mom and no dad. Dude pretty much had all time to himself and play bball by himself and level his skills

[InspiredLebowski]

I can't remember where I read it, but a study showed that there are around 70 male US citizens between 18-40 that were 7'+. Just in the US obviously, but there's only 30 NBA starting 5 jobs. And there's, apparently, only 70 people in the entire country that bring a non-negotiable positive (size) to the position.

I wish I was tall is what I'm saying.

[madmax17]

Training in different sports form an early age, football is great for footwork Olayuwon was the goalkeeper for ex., he said that was the reason he was quick on his feet.

[KG215]

They are indeed but that's not no where near out of the norm like lebron or stout they do have some goat reactions and are athletic like any athlete should at their size but overall what I saw was average leaping like any volleyball player and their size made it look better and average speed in a small radius nothing more. So razors starement remaiins true except it should be a higher number but the class he is talking about do not include these volleyball players were trying to be more specific and near those 2 nut just athletic tall players.




and big sausages

Compared to the rest of the general population of the world yes, those volleyball players are freakishly athletic for their size. And some of the best and most athletic were at least in the neighborhood athletically as some of the 6'6"+ dudes in the NBA. I'm not saying they're as athletic as LeBron who is arguably the most athletic human on the planet right now. But, compared to your average 6'6"+ person, those volleyball players are freak athletes.

There's a 7'2" dude on the Russian volleyball team that was very agile, quick, and had very good leaping ability for a guy his size. Chase Budinger was a great volleyball player, and I'm guessing you'd think he's a freak athlete. Well, there were more than just one or two Olympic volleyball players similar to Budinger in height and athleticism.

[KG215]

If I were 6'9 right now, I'd be in the NBA. Unfortunately, I'm not 6'9.

I have the skills but not the height for things to work out right.

Yeah, if only it worked like that. I grew from about 5'8" to 6'5" between my sophomore and senior years of high school. I kept some of my guard skills like perimeter shooting and a slightly above average handle, but I had to work my ass of to at least regain some of my coordination and never got all of my quickness and agility back.

Not everyone (and by not everyone I mean hardly no one) can be like Anthony Davis and go from 6'3"-6'4" to 6'10" in a matter of a couple of years and maintain that much coordination and agility to still be hands down the most dominant basketball player in the nation and undisputed #1 pick.

[InspiredLebowski]

I went from a 5'4 PG as a freshman to a 5'8 post as a senior. THAT is a growth spurt my friends. Dominated class 2A Indiana HS hoops! OK, there's some overstatements there. But 5'10 Cs were common. Footwork son!

[East_Stone_Ya]

i guess it is about conditioning and genetics. However playing sports at an early age clearly helps your overall movement later.

Regarding volleyball then these guys(6'8 - 6'11) jump much higher than basketball players but then again they are not required to have the weight and the strength

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02sU7Zyb8Oafj/610x.jpg

[InspiredLebowski]

the volleyball dudes are also usually jumping from a stationary base a lot of the time, from what I could tell anyway in the Olympics, not about to pretend to know anything about the sport. not that they aren't astounding athletes, but having a good 3-5 seconds or so to watch a play set up and get yourself in position to just spring up like a pogo stick is a lot different than trying to read ball movement while defending a man singularly.

i have a TON of respect for the athleticism of volleyball players, but it just seems like pretty must just a nice vertical is all it takes in terms of athleticism. that could be completely wrong, if so feel free to call me out, but to my untrained eye that's what it seemed like.

[Cermet]

Steroids and other stuff. They are "banned" but I am sure most of the superstars in NBA use it or used them. This is allowed because the higher people want NBA to be more entertaining. More entertainment means more money.

[KG215]

the volleyball dudes are also usually jumping from a stationary base a lot of the time, from what I could tell anyway in the Olympics, not about to pretend to know anything about the sport. not that they aren't astounding athletes, but having a good 3-5 seconds or so to watch a play set up and get yourself in position to just spring up like a pogo stick is a lot different than trying to read ball movement while defending a man singularly.

i have a TON of respect for the athleticism of volleyball players, but it just seems like pretty must just a nice vertical is all it takes in terms of athleticism. that could be completely wrong, if so feel free to call me out, but to my untrained eye that's what it seemed like.

Jumping ability is the biggest part of it but, even then, those guys have NBA level verts. Where they would probably be lacking compared to the above average NBA athlete is quickness and agility. But after I watched a few matches, and heard them mention how tall a lot of the guys were, I realized that for being in the 6'6"-6'11" range, most of them moved surprisingly well for a person their size. Yes, it was in a more confined space, but they have quick reflexes. I mean you have to in order to time a jump in an attempt to block a spike and especially to react and even get a hand or arm on a spike coming down at you lord knows how fast.

Like I said, Chase Budinger was a phenomenal volleyball player in college and I think most would consider him an above average NBA athlete at the very least. Who knows, maybe he was the most athletic volleyball player in the country but, I'm willing to bet that a lot of those guys in the Olympics were pretty similar to Budinger in athletic ability.

[Living Being]

yeah 30 was a retarded number. Im sorry. Its obviously way more. But its probably basically like the top 1% of all males though I would bet.

that argument is kind of pointless though because we'll never know. Yes we can say theres hundreds of kids that were smarter than einstein but shit happened and they never left their barns and did work but at the end of the day these are still the top 1% of billions of specimens.

There are 6.8 billion people on the planet.
1% of that would be 68 million. That's a lot of LeBrons!:coleman:

[InspiredLebowski]

Jumping ability is the biggest part of it but, even then, those guys have NBA level verts. Where they would probably be lacking compared to the above average NBA athlete is quickness and agility. But after I watched a few matches, and heard them mention how tall a lot of the guys were, I realized that for being in the 6'6"-6'11" range, most of them moved surprisingly well for a person their size. Yes, it was in a more confined space, but they have quick reflexes. I mean you have to in order to time a jump in an attempt to block a spike and especially to react and even get a hand or arm on a spike coming down at you lord knows how fast.

Like I said, Chase Budinger was a phenomenal volleyball player in college and I think most would consider him an above average NBA athlete at the very least. Who knows, maybe he was the most athletic volleyball player in the country but, I'm willing to bet that a lot of those guys in the Olympics were pretty similar to Budinger in athletic ability.I have no disagreements with any of this at all, it's all true far as I know. I used to think tennis was the closest comparable to hoops with the abundance of horizontal movement, and it still probably is in that regard, but volleyball's right up there.

The top of a volleyball net's 8' or so, so that does skew the perception a bit. I'm not dogging on volleyball players or anything, they're in the top couple percentage points of athleticism in the world (a lot more athletic in general than a number of NBA bigs), but as a whole I just really don't think there's a game that compares at all to basketball in terms of physical giants with otherwordly athleticism.

[Noof]

There are 6.8 billion people on the planet.
1% of that would be 68 million. That's a lot of LeBrons!:coleman:
:lebronamazed:

[Qwertyazerty]

Genetics, drugs (allowed or not for sportmen), biomechanical trainers and so many things can have an effect on your movements.

But another relevant thing may be that, being too good for their age, many NBA players where playing versus older (and logicaly taller due to age) competition in which they didn't have the size to play 5 or 4. I read somewhere that Pau Gasol was forced to play PG in Cornell

[KG215]

I have no disagreements with any of this at all, it's all true far as I know. I used to think tennis was the closest comparable to hoops with the abundance of horizontal movement, and it still probably is in that regard, but volleyball's right up there.

The top of a volleyball net's 8' or so, so that does skew the perception a bit. I'm not dogging on volleyball players or anything, they're in the top couple percentage points of athleticism in the world (a lot more athletic in general than a number of NBA bigs), but as a whole I just really don't think there's a game that compares at all to basketball in terms of physical giants with otherwordly athleticism.

I agree. I'm in the "NBA players are the most freakish and best athletes in the world" camp. Any abundance of size can be a big advantage in any sport at almost any position. In terms of teaming up, though, and playing some sort of tournament against other top athletes from the best professional leagues in the world (NBA, NFL, MLB, EPL, whatever), I think the NBA team would do the best. They may not fair as well in a individualized decathlon type event, but no other professional sports league has a bunch of 6'8"+ dudes with the agility, speed, quickness, and leaping ability of someone 6-8 inches shorter.

I just didn't realize how big and athletic male volleyball players are until these last couple of weeks. I now have a new found respect for the game because of it.

[LBJ 23]

So yes, starting at a young age may help your coordination.


Not may help, it certainly does help your coordination.

[dunksby]

I have no disagreements with any of this at all, it's all true far as I know. I used to think tennis was the closest comparable to hoops with the abundance of horizontal movement, and it still probably is in that regard, but volleyball's right up there.

The top of a volleyball net's 8' or so, so that does skew the perception a bit. I'm not dogging on volleyball players or anything, they're in the top couple percentage points of athleticism in the world (a lot more athletic in general than a number of NBA bigs), but as a whole I just really don't think there's a game that compares at all to basketball in terms of physical giants with otherwordly athleticism.
I think Water polo athletes do come close, nothing is harder than playing a mash up of soccer and bball in the water...:applause: :applause:

[Rake2204]

I can't remember where I read it, but a study showed that there are around 70 male US citizens between 18-40 that were 7'+. Just in the US obviously, but there's only 30 NBA starting 5 jobs. And there's, apparently, only 70 people in the entire country that bring a non-negotiable positive (size) to the position.

I wish I was tall is what I'm saying.
You're pretty darn on the money.


Fact: An actual accounting of 7-footers, domestic or global, does not exist in any reliable form. National surveys by the Center for Disease Control list no head count or percentile at that height. (Only 5% of adult American males are 6'3" or taller.) "In terms of the growth spectrum, 7 feet is simply extreme," explains endocrinologist Shlomo Melmed, dean of the medical faculty at L.A.'s Cedars-Sinai Medical Center. The term 7-footer is itself a kind of outer limit, a far-off threshold beyond which precise measurement seems superfluous. A 6'4" guard isn't a 6-footer, after all. The curve shaped by the CDC's available statistics, however, does allow one to estimate the number of American men between the ages of 20 and 40 who are 7 feet or taller: fewer than 70 in all. Which indicates, by further extrapolation, that while the probability of, say, an American between 6'6" and 6'8" being an NBA player today stands at a mere 0.07%, it's a staggering 17% for someone 7 feet or taller.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1187806/index.htm

[SpanishACB]

You guys seen handball? Players there's are also really quick and agile and many of them on the 6'8 mark

[Nash]

In soccer if you are 6-3 or taller you are usually clumsy.

[swi7ch]

black genetics
freaks of nature

that's why the usa is the best in the world in athletics (see: past olympics)

[LikeABosh]

They are world class athletes and work out all year there whole lives, with the best trainers in the country. Lebron is also just a freak of nature though. The way he moves, dribbles and his feel for the game is just ridiculous for his size.

[JaggerCommaMick]

Amare Stoudamire 6'11 mate? :roll:

Heights are ridiculously embellished in the NBA. In fact I saw Blake Griffin the other day and hes no taller than 6'6. Lebron is probably 6'7 and Amare possibly is 6'8.

Mates, in the NFL they list your real height and Rob Gronkowski who I've seen is a legit 6'7. Few power forwards are any taller than he is. Guys like Mike Beasley are easily shorter.

[ZenMaster]

By being crazy athletic while practicing and doing it from a young age.
If you are big and want to get in the cordination it takes you have to do it for a long time and in a smart way.

[SpanishACB]

In soccer if you are 6-3 or taller you are usually clumsy.

Ibrahimovic says hi

[ZenMaster]

Ibrahimovic says hi

He did say usually..

[CavaliersFTW]

6'8"-Lebron

6'11"- Amare.


I mean if you picked out two random dudes who are at this height, they would be awkward and clumsy, is it genetics that determine how one can move about physiologically?
6-11? :lol

Lebron 6-7.25

Amare 6-8.5

[jongib369]

It's honestly scary seeing big men move like that....ESPECIALLY young Shaq & Wilt...Those 2 are both the GOAT's of the freak athletes with everything considered...Size(Height, standing reach, wingspan, weight), strength, Speed, Agility

[taucesays]

Genetics and playing basketball from a very young age. Genetics can give you top quality muscle but playing from a young age will strengthen the muscles that are used in basketball and give you "muscle memory" to be able to pull of fakes and other quick moves.

[jongib369]

6-11? :lol

Lebron 6-7.25

Amare 6-8.5

http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.2059196.1278165847!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/display_600/image.jpg

[NumberSix]

Try to teach a person to play a guitar or a piano or any other instrument. They'll be extremely clumsy. A person like myself who who has been proficiant for many years won't be. It's basically that simple.

LeBron has been doing what he does for like 20 years. Why would he be clumsy?

[get these NETS]

When Stern was using the phrase "the world's greatest athletes" to market the NBA....he wasn't too far off.

The George Gervin/Magic Johnson factor comes into play also. Before the arrival of the "big guard".....coaches from grade school up to NBA wouldn't allow players over a certain height to play on the perimeter. That line of thinking has changed, so you have guys who have handled the ball and played on the perimeter their entire basketball lives.

familiar with moves/countermoves spacing from playing out there...and lucky for them..a lot of them retained their athleticism even after all the growth spurts.

I remember how awkward it was seeing a Derrick Coleman or Anthony Mason bringing the ball up the court,but it's common place now....

[CavaliersFTW]

When Stern was using the phrase "the world's greatest athletes" to market the NBA....he wasn't too far off.

The George Gervin/Magic Johnson factor comes into play also. Before the arrival of the "big guard".....coaches from grade school up to NBA wouldn't allow players over a certain height to play on the perimeter. That line of thinking has changed, so you have guys who have handled the ball and played on the perimeter their entire basketball lives.

familiar with moves/countermoves spacing from playing out there...and lucky for them..a lot of them retained their athleticism even after all the growth spurts.

I remember how awkward it was seeing a Derrick Coleman or Anthony Mason bringing the ball up the court,but it's common place now....
That doesn't sound right, Oscar Robertson was the size of an NBA forward/gradeschool center yet he always handled the ball as a point guard in the backcourt. I think great players play their strengths and let their talents do all the dictacting, not some schlumpy coaches from their grade schools nor even most NBA coaches. Not if they are truly elite talent that has proven the handling skills necessary to play small despite being big. Otherwise Oscar and several other players pre-dating even your Magic/Gervin generation would have never been doing what they did, . I think it's literally just been a recent trend for more and more bigs to play small because of rule changes and simple visual appeal that makes it hell to be a big man offensively and make it easier and cooler looking to drive to the hoop/dribble/draw a foul. More bigs are handling the ball now because more bigs WANT to handle the ball now and they are practicing small-man skills to do so.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Because perimeter players are stars, kids want to be like stars, so even though kids are huge they want to play on the perimeter so they develop those skills. **** AAU they killed the post game.

[FKAri]

In soccer if you are 6-3 or taller you are usually clumsy.

Same is true in basketball and everything else. The difference is height is more of an advantage in basketball. Lebron James IS clumsy compared to a PG but that is irrelevant because of the advantage his height gives him. He is however, alot less clumsy than others of his size.

[DuMa]

watch the documentary. Michael Johnson - Survival of the fastest.

[CavaliersFTW]

watch the documentary. Michael Johnson - Survival of the fastest.
no

[28renyoy]

First off, the NBA's billed heights and verticals are way inflated. Look at pre-draft measurements if you want the truth. Secondly, NBA players are very lucky when it comes to genetics as the vast majority of NBA players are in the league because of elite height/athleticism. And the only players that are truly elite athletes are the ones that are under 6'4.

LeBron James is not an elite athlete when you put him out there with truly elite athletes. If he were 6', he might not even be in the NBA. But given his size, combined with athleticism, he is an absolute magnificent physical specimen. But if someone like Russell Westbrook were 6'8? He would probably average 40 points per game assuming he kept the same skillset/quickness/athleticism.

[NumberSix]

First off, the NBA's billed heights and verticals are way inflated. Look at pre-draft measurements if you want the truth. Secondly, NBA players are very lucky when it comes to genetics as the vast majority of NBA players are in the league because of elite height/athleticism. And the only players that are truly elite athletes are the ones that are under 6'4.

LeBron James is not an elite athlete when you put him out there with truly elite athletes. If he were 6', he might not even be in the NBA. But given his size, combined with athleticism, he is an absolute magnificent physical specimen. But if someone like Russell Westbrook were 6'8? He would probably average 40 points per game assuming he kept the same skillset/quickness/athleticism.
If Russell westbrook was 6'8 he'd be like 60 pounds heavier. He wouldn't still have the exact same speed/quickness/athleticism as he does at 187lbs.

[CavaliersFTW]

If Russell westbrook was 6'8 he'd be like 60 pounds heavier. He wouldn't still have the exact same speed/quickness/athleticism as he does at 187lbs.
Yep, cube/mass/relativity laws of motion. Exactly why a giraffe looks like it runs in slow motion while rodent sized animals legs move like a blur. The Giraffie is actually ultimately the faster/stronger animal too, it is only relatively slower. Westbrook can't fight physics, he'd "look" relatively slower and less graceful the more lbs of mass he packed on. That's why smart aging veterans like Kobe or Perkins changed tune and instead aimed to lose weight (including muscle mass) in the gym - to regain quickness and mobility.

[28renyoy]

If Russell westbrook was 6'8 he'd be like 60 pounds heavier. He wouldn't still have the exact same speed/quickness/athleticism as he does at 187lbs.

Uhh...what?

By that logic, the most athletic person in the world would be a midget.

Do you know how many people in the world are 6'3 vs 6'8? LeBron is quite possibly the most athletic 6'8 person in the world, but there are several 6'3 people that are more athletic than him.

It's just a matter of numbers.

Westbrook is a superior specimen to LeBron just based on quickness/speed/explosiveness. But James is MUCH better when it comes to NBA athleticism due to his height/strength/length advantage.

[CavaliersFTW]

Uhh...what?

By that logic, the most athletic person in the world would be a midget.

Do you know how many people in the world are 6'3 vs 6'8? LeBron is quite possibly the most athletic 6'8 person in the world, but there are several 6'3 people that are more athletic than him.

It's just a matter of numbers.

Westbrook is a superior specimen to LeBron just based on quickness/speed/explosiveness. But James is MUCH better when it comes to NBA athleticism due to his height/strength/length advantage.
:facepalm Midgets have a genetic mutation that hinders mobility. The logic is absolutely true, provable through physics, and is seen everywhere in nature. How much do acrobatic gymnasts typically weigh again? How tall are they? How come they aren't NBA sized athletes?

[NumberSix]

Uhh...what?

By that logic, the most athletic person in the world would be a midget.
Wow. That's quite a leap. You're gonna have go more in depth with that theory.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

Wow. That's quite a leap. You're gonna have go more in depth with that theory.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
A mouse is a better physical specimen than an elephant, look how fast it moves its legs n shit. If a mouse was the size of an elephent it would be a superior athlete. durr hurrrr herp derp :lol

Its awesome ignoring the laws of physics isnt it?

[28renyoy]

:facepalm Midgets have a genetic mutation that hinders mobility. The logic is absolutely true, provable through physics, and is seen everywhere in nature. How much do acrobatic gymnasts typically weigh again? How tall are they? How come they aren't NBA sized athletes?


Probably because their sport is dependent upon strength? Where as basketball is not? And going by the numbers, there are far more people in the 5'5-5'8 range to have the elite strength throughout the body, than people in the 6'5-6'8 range.

You take 1000 random 5'10 guys as that is the average height for a male. Now you take 1 random 6'8 guy as that is the standard amount of 6'8 guys out of 1000.

Who would you wager is more athletic? The 6'8 guy or one of the 1000 5'10 guys.

[NumberSix]

:facepalm Midgets have a genetic mutation that hinders mobility. The logic is absolutely true, provable through physics, and is seen everywhere in nature. How much do acrobatic gymnasts typically weigh again? How tall are they? How come they aren't NBA sized athletes?
Well, it also depends exactly what athletic traits you're talking about. Gymnasts are better athletically for certain things.

If you look at something like running speed. There's a good reason why the world's fastest man is 6'5, not 5'5 and there's a good reason why you don't see 6'1 woman in gymnastics at the olympics. There doing different things athletically. "athleticism" isn't one uniform thing.

Obviously NBA players can't control their bodies the way gymnasts do, but it's not like a gymnast has the same speed or stamina that an elite NBA athlete would have.

To just say flat out athlete-A>athlete-B when they not even doing the same things athletically is just random opinion.

[NumberSix]

Who would you wager is more athletic? The 6'8 guy or one of the 1000 5'10 guys.
:facepalm You can't possibly be this stupid.

Forget the heights altogether. You're asking which side is better on 1000-to-1 odds. Jesus christ. Get a fcking clue.

[CavaliersFTW]

Probably because their sport is dependent upon strength? Where as basketball is not? And going by the numbers, there are far more people in the 5'5-5'8 range to have the elite strength throughout the body, than people in the 6'5-6'8 range.

You take 1000 random 5'10 guys as that is the average height for a male. Now you take 1 random 6'8 guy as that is the standard amount of 6'8 guys out of 1000.

Who would you wager is more athletic? The 6'8 guy or one of the 1000 5'10 guys.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :oldlol: :lol :roll:

lol your totally not getting it.

In the physical universe we live in, all objects become relatively more taxing to move the larger in mass they become. Adding length further exacerbates the problem due to a gyroscopic effect. I suggest you enroll in some science classes at your local community college.

Lebron James at Westbrooks size would be more visibly athletic (agile/quick) than he is at his current size.

Westbrook at Lebrons size would be less visibly athletic (agile/quick) than he is at his curent size.

Because of physics. There's actually forumulas and shit to calculate precisely how much the forces acting against an object(IE your body) changes as mass and length is added or reduced.

Go back to school

[CavaliersFTW]

Well, it also depends exactly what athletic traits you're talking about. Gymnasts are better athletically for certain things.

If you look at something like running speed. There's a good reason why the world's fastest man is 6'5, not 5'5 and there's a good reason why you don't see 6'1 woman in gymnastics at the olympics. There doing different things athletically. "athleticism" isn't one uniform thing.

Obviously NBA players can't control their bodies the way gymnasts do, but it's not like a gymnast has the same speed or stamina that an elite NBA athlete would have.

To just say flat out athlete-A>athlete-B when they not even doing the same things athletically is just random opinion.
Make a criteria than. Because the physics I'm talking about applies to all.

If Usain Bolt was made in an exact copy of himself and reduced in every dimension down to 5'5 (but in perfect proportion) - the laws of physics mandate that he will be relativily faster, more agile, quicker, stronger etc. Ultimately however, the 6'5 version of himself will be faster (in straight line speed) and stronger - but it won't be as quick or agile and visually it would appear that he's moving in slow motion vs the 5'5 version of himself. Because it takes longer to accelorate his limbs and get his mass moving - he's fighting a lot harder against the effects of his own mass and momentum.

Which is exactly what the premise of this dudes horrible logic is built around. He's noticing the relative increase in quickness/agility in smaller athletes but he hasn't got a clue as to why it is such (The laws of physics) and he's drawing terrible conclusions about superior athleticism and such as a result. Westbrook can not be transformed into 6-8 without suffering the same visual "slowed down" effect a bigger athlete like Lebron has and Lebron would no longer be a prisoner of his own mass and stature if he was reduced to a guy like Westbrook's size.

[LJJ]

Regarding volleyball then these guys(6'8 - 6'11) jump much higher than basketball players

Lol no.

[28renyoy]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :oldlol: :lol :roll:

lol your totally not getting it.

In the physical universe we live in all objects become relatively more taxing to move the larger in mass they become. Adding length further exacerbates the problem due to a gyroscopic effect. I suggest you enroll in some science classes at your local community college.

Lebron James at Westbrooks size would be more athletic than he is at his current size.

Westbrook at Lebrons size would be less athletic than he is at his curent size.

Because of physics. There's actually forumulas and shit to calculate precisely how much the forces acting against an object(IE your body) changes as mass and length is added or reduced.

Go back to school

Welcome to kinetics child. Someone in this thread stated that LeBron James was the most athletic person in the world, which is ludicrous. Of course LeBron has to overcome a force of gravity, due to his mass, and in some cases frictional as well. That excuse is absolutely fine.

Based on physics of course LeBron is going to take a longer period of time to reach peak velocity as mass plays an important part in determining acceleration.

However LeBron also has rangier limbs due to a different bone structure. This enables him to take longer strides, and in essence have a more powerful stride as it is longer.

Westbrook, having shorter legs, on the otherhand exhibits a shorter turnover length enabling him to have a faster acceleration in theory. However James still has an advantage in stride length, based on common sense.

Acceleration, and peak velocity in terms of basketball, requires balancing both

And btw I love how my point is being ignored. LeBron James is nowhere near the most athletic person in the NBA.

[NumberSix]

Make a criteria than. Because the physics I'm talking about applies to all.

If Usain Bolt was made in an exact copy of himself and reduced in every dimension down to 5'5 (but in perfect proportion) - the laws of physics mandate that he will be RELATIVELY faster, more agile, quicker, stronger etc. ULTIMATELY however, the 6'5 version of himself will still be faster and stronger - but it won't be as quick or agile. Because it takes longer to accelorate his limbs and get his mass moving.

Which is exactly what the premise of this dudes horrible logic is built around. He's noticing the relative increase in quickness/agility in smaller athletes but he hasn't got a clue as to why it is such (PHYSICS). Westbrook can not be transformed into 6-8 without suffering the same visual "slowed down" effect a bigger athlete like Lebron has.
Exactly. the physics apply across the board, but the results aren't uniform.

If you make Russell Westbrook bigger, he might move a little slower, but his strides become much bigger. He doesn't necessarily cover the same distasnce slower.

LeBron's legs might not move as fast as Westbrooks, but they're not required to in order to cover distance faster.

There's more of a sweet spot than just uniform directional scales.

[CavaliersFTW]

Welcome to kinetics child. Someone in this thread stated that LeBron James was the most athletic person in the world, which is ludicrous. Of course LeBron has to overcome a force of gravity, due to his mass, and in some cases frictional as well. That excuse is absolutely fine.

Based on physics of course LeBron is going to take a longer period of time to reach peak velocity as mass plays an important part in determining acceleration.

However LeBron also has rangier limbs due to a different bone structure. This enables him to take longer strides, and in essence have a more powerful stride as it is longer.

Westbrook, having shorter legs, on the otherhand exhibits a shorter turnover length enabling him to have a faster acceleration in theory. However James still has an advantage in stride length, based on common sense.

Acceleration, and peak velocity in terms of basketball, requires balancing both

And btw I love how my point is being ignored. LeBron James is nowhere near the most athletic person in the NBA.
I don't care about your subjective opinions on athleticism, I cared about isolating the ignorant lack of logic I sensed in your post about small athletes being superior to big ones. I filled in the blanks for you with an explanation as to why your theory about Westbrook being bigger = better isn't true. Now your educated. Your welcome

[NumberSix]

And btw I love how my point is being ignored. LeBron James is nowhere near the most athletic person in the NBA.
Your problem is that you're throwing around words like "athletic" and "athleticism" as if that have 1 uniform meaning. These are very vague words.

[FireDavidKahn]

6'8"-Lebron

6'11"- Amare.


I mean if you picked out two random dudes who are at this height, they would be awkward and clumsy, is it genetics that determine how one can move about physiologically?
They're genetically gifted.

[28renyoy]

I don't care about your subjective opinions on athleticism, I cared about containing the ignorant lack of logic I sensed in your post about small athletes being superior to big ones. I filled in the blanks for you with an explanation as to why. Now your educated. Your welcome

Now I'm welcome? Read my last post dipshit.

Are you really dumb enough to take the gamble that a 1 in 1000 would be more athletic than 999 out of 1000? Taking height completely out of the scenario?

You're completely discounting variance and the effect volume can have on a statistic.

[CavaliersFTW]

Now I'm welcome? Read my last post dipshit.

Are you really dumb enough to take the gamble that a 1 in 1000 would be more athletic than 999 out of 1000? Taking height complete out of the question?

You're completely discounting variance and the effect volume can have on a statistic.
still babbling on like an idiot after getting owned :roll:

[NumberSix]

They're genetically gifted.
No, it's more muscle memory. Look at how any gymnast moves. They can't move that way just because of good genetics. It's just repetition of movement.

You can have good genetics all you want. You're not gonna move more gracefully that some who practices those movements all day unless you put in the practice too.

[28renyoy]

Your problem is that you're throwing around words like "athletic" and "athleticism" as if that have 1 uniform meaning. These are very vague words.

No I am not. I am speaking in terms of athleticism in several diverse fields. I'm taking height completely out of the equation as that is not measured in fields of determining athleticism. That is used in things such as sport, which are a combination of several things including ATHLETICISM.

Take a vertical jump for instance. That is a measure of athleticism, and is not height dependent.

While LeBron James is elite in the field of sport, he is not an elite when it comes to athleticism purely. That is why people generally refer to decathalon athletes. as the greatest athletes in the world. They are elite in virtually every measurement of athletic ability.

[NumberSix]

Now I'm welcome? Read my last post dipshit.

Are you really dumb enough to take the gamble that a 1 in 1000 would be more athletic than 999 out of 1000? Taking height completely out of the scenario?

You're completely discounting variance and the effect volume can have on a statistic.
How many 5'10 guys do you think there are in the world for every 6'8 guy? Why are there no 5'10 LeBron's in the NBA?

[CavaliersFTW]

No I am not. I am speaking in terms of athleticism in several diverse fields. I'm taking height completely out of the equation as that is not measured in fields of determining athleticism. That is used in things such as sport, which are a combination of several things including ATHLETICISM.

Take a vertical jump for instance. That is a measure of athleticism, and is not height dependent.
Your in over your head, just stop :oldlol:

[FireDavidKahn]

No, it's more muscle memory. Look at how any gymnast moves. They can't move that way just because of good genetics. It's just repetition of movement.

You can have good genetics all you want. You're not gonna move more gracefully that some who practices those movements all day unless you put in the practice too.
Obviously, but you pretty much have to be genetically gifted to even be able to practice that kind of stuff. Muscle memory isn't everything and that's why you really can't teach a "stiff" to suddenly become a fluid low post big man.

[NumberSix]

Take a vertical jump for instance. That is a measure of athleticism, and is not height dependent.
Yes, but what not understanding is that a 260lbs guy jumping 38 inches in fact does require more athleticism than a 187lbs guy jumping 40 inches.

[28renyoy]

still babbling on like an idiot after getting owned :roll:

HAHAHA how was I owned? Because you rambled about physics when I was clearly exploiting the logical fallacy presented by numbersix when an absurd hypothetical/example?

GTFO old man

[CavaliersFTW]

Yes, but what not understanding is that a 260lbs guy jumping 38 inches in fact does require more athleticism than a 187lbs guy jumping 40 inches.
You get it, 28 don't get it :oldlol:

[28renyoy]

How many 5'10 guys do you think there are in the world for every 6'8 guy? Why are there no 5'10 LeBron's in the NBA?

Because basketball is not only a measure of athletic ability, but also has a hell of a lot to do with skillset and bodytype.

The same reason there are 7 footers in the NBA that wouldn't even start on some high school teams if they were 6 foot.

[CavaliersFTW]

Because basketball is not only a measure of athletic ability, but also has a hell of a lot to do with skillset and bodytype.

The same reason there are 7 footers in the NBA that wouldn't even start on some high school teams if they were 6 foot.
If they were magically transformed into 6 foot version of themselves they'd suddenly appear to be a lot more mobile and athletic... u still don't get it :roll:

[NumberSix]

Obviously, but you pretty much have to be genetically gifted to even be able to practice that kind of stuff. Muscle memory isn't everything and that's why you really can't teach a "stiff" to suddenly become a fluid low post big man.
Have you ever done something in the field of strengthening your muscle memory? I can tell you, literally anyone can learn unless they have some kind of deficiency. Obviously it takes more time for some and less for others, but genetics doesn't really matter. Anyone can teach their hands to play a piano if they put in the work.

[28renyoy]

Yes, but what not understanding is that a 260lbs guy jumping 38 inches in fact does require more athleticism than a 187lbs guy jumping 40 inches.

Now you're arguing ability to offset the higher gravitational force exerted upon him, which in large part is due to his frame.

And just so we're clear here, Shaq is the arguably greatest leaper in NBA history?

36" vertical at 303 lbs.

[CavaliersFTW]

Now you're arguing ability to offset the higher gravitational force exerted upon him, which in large part is due to his frame.

And just so we're clear here, Shaq is the arguably greatest leaper in NBA history?

36" vertical at 303 lbs.
Would you like me to calculate Shaq's vertical if he were 5'11? I can do that, I have the formulas. Than you'll know what kind of leaper he was in "5'11" terms :oldlol:

[28renyoy]

If they were magically transformed into 6 foot version of themselves they'd suddenly appear to be a lot more mobile and athletic... u still don't get it :roll:

Are you insinuating that skillset and athletic ability is entirely dependent upon height? Please tell me how someone like Kevin Durant, at 6'10/6'11, has a greater basketball skillset than 99% of the rest of the world.

It is a freak occurence. You still don't understand variance. What is the average 40 time of a regular joe in the world? Around a 5.0?

Yet you're surmising that a 7 footer that runs a 5.0 is running that speed due to his abnormal height which in turn limits his range of motion/coordination.

There are 70 people in the United States at 7 foot or taller. The odds of running a 40 yard dash in 4.4 or faster is 1 in 3400.

Have you ever taken into consideration that they might not be elite athletes because there are so few of them in numbers? If you take 70 regular joes of average height, the odds of them running a 40 in sub 4.4 time is 2.5%. But yes, I'm sure that one 7 footer that can run a 40 in 4.4 or faster is just super human. He would probably run a 3.5 40 if his athleticism were placed in a guy 6'. Or maybe he just beat the odds. Maybe he's just one of the 3400 in a much smaller sample size.

[CavaliersFTW]

Are you insinuating that skillset and athletic ability is entirely dependent upon height? Please tell me how someone like Kevin Durant, at 6'10/6'11, has a greater basketball skillset than 99% of the rest of the world.

It is a freak occurence. You still don't understand variance. What is the average 40 time of a regular joe in the world? Around a 5.0?

Yet you're surmising that a 7 footer that runs a 5.0 is running that speed due to his abnormal height which in turn limits his range of motion/coordination.

There are 70 people in the United States at 7 foot or taller. The odds of running a 40 yard dash in 4.4 or faster is 1 in 3400.

Have you ever taken into consideration that they might not be elite athletes because there are so few of them in numbers? If you take 70 regular joes of average height, the odds of them running a 40 in sub 4.4 time is 2.5%. But yes, I'm sure that one 7 footer that can run a 40 in 4.4 or faster is just super human. He would probably run a 3.5 40 if his athleticism were placed in a guy 6'. Or maybe he just beat the odds. Maybe he's just one of the 3400 in a much smaller sample size.
No, I'm proving that your an idiot :applause:

[28renyoy]

No, I'm insinuating that your an idiot :applause:

You have no argument.

On a scale of a 1-10, you're a ******.

[NumberSix]

Are you insinuating that skillset and athletic ability is entirely dependent upon height? Please tell me how someone like Kevin Durant, at 6'10/6'11, has a greater basketball skillset than 99% of the rest of the world.

It is a freak occurence. You still don't understand variance. What is the average 40 time of a regular joe in the world? Around a 5.0?

Yet you're surmising that a 7 footer that runs a 5.0 is running that speed due to his abnormal height which in turn limits his range of motion/coordination.

There are 70 people in the United States at 7 foot or taller. The odds of running a 40 yard dash in 4.4 or faster is 1 in 3400.

Have you ever taken into consideration that they might not be elite athletes because there are so few of them in numbers? If you take 70 regular joes of average height, the odds of them running a 40 in sub 4.4 time is 2.5%. But yes, I'm sure that one 7 footer that can run a 40 in 4.4 or faster is just super human. He would probably run a 3.5 40 if his athleticism were placed in a guy 6'. Or maybe he just beat the odds. Maybe he's just one of the 3400 in a much smaller sample size.I've reached the "did not read" stage with this guy.

[28renyoy]

I've reached the "did not read" stage with this guy.

Of course you have because I'm using common sense with data.

Apparently statistics don't apply to those that are abnormal in size.

[D.J.]

It's mostly genetics combined a bit with practice from an early age. Big men in the NBA were a normal height for their age in many cases, so they developed ball handling and shooting skills. Many also played against older competition.

I remember being 11 years old and playing against people that were in high school(I was already 6'0" at the time). Even though I had the height on many, I didn't have the strength. I had to learn to play the perimeter, handling the rock, passing, and shooting jumpers. 2 years later, I was 6'5" and able to play the post because even against a heavier opponent, I had a significant height advantage.

Point being many big men weren't always a foot taller than the average kid their age, so they had to learn skills at other positions.

[tpols]

Welcome to kinetics child. Someone in this thread stated that LeBron James was the most athletic person in the world, which is ludicrous. Of course LeBron has to overcome a force of gravity, due to his mass, and in some cases frictional as well. That excuse is absolutely fine.

Based on physics of course LeBron is going to take a longer period of time to reach peak velocity as mass plays an important part in determining acceleration.

However LeBron also has rangier limbs due to a different bone structure. This enables him to take longer strides, and in essence have a more powerful stride as it is longer.

Westbrook, having shorter legs, on the otherhand exhibits a shorter turnover length enabling him to have a faster acceleration in theory. However James still has an advantage in stride length, based on common sense.

Acceleration, and peak velocity in terms of basketball, requires balancing both

And btw I love how my point is being ignored. LeBron James is nowhere near the most athletic person in the NBA.
Your points retarded because if Westbrook was 6'8 he would weigh a lot more and his limbs would be 'rangier' and thus he would suffer the same setbacks as current lebron.

[tpols]

Yes, but what not understanding is that a 260lbs guy jumping 38 inches in fact does require more athleticism than a 187lbs guy jumping 40 inches.
pretty much.. they have to exert more relative force to get their bodies up that high.

It's like a 250lb guy versus a 150lb guy doing pushups. The 150lb guy will do a lot more because he has so much less weight but that doesnt mean hes stronger or more athletic than the big guy who is pushing around more lbs. If they both did 100 pushups the 250lb guy woiuld be looked at as much much stronger.

[BaņkShot]

WORLD class athletes and genetics?

[tpols]

And im going to have to totally disagree on the worldclass genetics/athletes bit.. it's repetitive motion that comes from pure life experience.

Like people have been saying, coaches just started letting bigger/taller guys dribble around on the perimeter. Thats why big guys got better at handling the ball. Genetics from 1970 to now havent evolved.. big guys just have had 10x the ballhandling practice that they used to.

I personally know since I was 5'7 my first year in HS and obviously before that and I had very good handles then I had a growth spurt to 6'3-6'4 over 2 years and when i go out on the court today i have the same exact handles despite being taller than almost everyone i play with. Of course in the middle of the growth spurt it felt awkward dribbling but after a few years in the same body that repeated muscle memory comes right back and i can dribble with the same pace, quickness, and fluididty that i did when i was much shorter.

[28renyoy]

pretty much.. they have to exert more relative force to get their bodies up that high.

It's like a 250lb guy versus a 150lb guy doing pushups. The 150lb guy will do a lot more because he has so much less weight but that doesnt mean hes stronger or more athletic than the big guy who is pushing around more lbs. If they both did 100 pushups the 250lb guy woiuld be looked at as much much stronger.

You're also assuming that the 250 lb and the 150 lb guy have the same muscle mass, which is absurd.

As body weight increases, strength GENERALLY does as well for athletic/fit individuals.

You're extrapolating LeBron James at 6'3 180 lbs would be just as strong as LeBron James at 6'8 260 lbs which is ridiculous

[tpols]

You're also assuming that the 250 lb and the 150 lb guy have the same muscle mass, which is absurd.

As body weight increases, strength GENERALLY does as well for athletic/fit individuals.

You're extrapolating LeBron James at 6'3 180 lbs would be just as strong as LeBron James at 6'8 260 lbs which is ridiculous
What? The relative strength of a 150lb guy and a 250lb guy would give the advantage to the smaller guy. Hes pulling around less weight. It's exponentially easier to bench 150lbs versus 250(not that this is the case with pushups). It's a worlds difference. The big guy is CLEARLY at a disadvantage in this hypothetical, and thus if he were to perform more reps he would get a huge nod for his compensation.

It's like I can rep 100 lbs 30 or so times.. does that mean I can rep 300lbs 10 times? Fvck no.. it's just a huge disadvantage.

[CavaliersFTW]

Your points retarded because if Westbrook was 6'8 he would weigh a lot more and his limbs would be 'rangier' and thus he would suffer the same setbacks as current lebron.
Excellent, another person I see understands the gist of the laws of physics and how they apply to athletes :applause:

28 still doesn't get it :facepalm :oldlol: