Jim Boeheim: LeBron James could challenge Michael Jordan for 'best ever' title

[WockaVodka]

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2012/08/lebron_james_michael_jordan_best_ever_boeheim.html


Boeheim also talked about some of the players on Team USA, and was especially generous with his praise of LeBron James. Cowherd asked Boeheim if James is a different player now compared to when he joined Team USA in 2005.

Here's some of what Boeheim had to say:

"Ten times better player. Some of it is maturity. He's a leader; he was a kid when we first got him. ... He's a 6-9, 260-pound point guard-forward-center. He guarded the post guys. They always say a guy can guard five positions, I've never seen that. I've heard about it. This guy can guard five guys. he can guard your center, he can guard your small forward, big forward, point guard, two guard. You put him on anybody and he can guard them."

So, just how good is James ... and how good can he be?

"I've always thought Michael Jordan was the best player that I've ever seen. I always have and and I didn't think it was close. I'm not so sure any more. And I love Michael Jordan. I'm not so sure anymore. This guy is 6-foot-9 and 260 pounds, and he's getting better. He works on his game. His shooting is getting better. He's a phenomenal, phenomenal basketball player. I love this game, I love the history of this game. I know we've had great, great players through the years. He's like Magic Johnson with Michael Jordan-type skills as well."

I found this article posted on another site. I thought it would be nice to share and ask what you guys think about it.

Thoughts? I've always said Lebron is the only one that could challenge Jordan for the best ever title but i wasn't sure if he ever would though.

[jlip]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274607

[DTreats]

op is a stupid bitch

[Stuckey]

fvck off

[BlackVVaves]

Bron still has a ways to go. He'd have to finish with 2-3 more MVPs (could happen), and 4-6 more championships (less chance of happening).

To surpass Jordan means he'd have to surpass both the individual achievements and the team achievements.

[D.J.]

9 seasons in, Jordan had 3 rings/3 MVP's/3 Finals MVP's. LeBron has matched him in MVP's, but he only has 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP, and lost in the Finals on 2 other occasions. A good question is, could LeBron return to the NBA at 40 and put up 20 a night?

[BaņkShot]

MJ = Goat. Stop it.

[DixieNourmous]

im Boeheim: LeBron James could challenge Michael Jordan for 'best ever' title

And then Mitch Kupcheck went nuts with LAL money.

Then the azzwhoopins began http://i.picasion.com/pic39/d9ac6ab5b8a49a5b7b0ce4ea9849c613.gif

http://img.izismile.com/img/img5/20120406/1000/hilarious_obama_animated_gifs_19.gif

[Hands of Iron]

How is Lebron going to change what happened in the 2011 Finals to make this dream a reality? Truly one of the worst performances in the entire history of basketball from an annual MVP candidate. It looked like he threw the series FFS.

[jlip]

It seems as if the litmus test for greatness for basketball personalities (i.e. coaches and former players) is often different from that of fans. While as fans we go back and look at career accomplishments (i.e. how many MVPs, championships, "was he 'the man' for those championships", all star selections, stats titles, etc.), basketball personalities tend to look at the greats and judge by perceived talent and performance. The fact that legend X has 1 more MVP and 2 more rings than legend Y doesn't mean as much to them in the debate.

[TheMan]

It could happen but I wouldn't bet on it...

[alleykat]

How is Lebron going to change what happened in the 2011 Finals to make this dream a reality? Truly one of the worst performances in the entire history of basketball from an annual MVP candidate. It looked like he threw the series FFS.

it will only be relevant to people who refuse to see the potential in his career.....if he puts up historic numbers from here on out I can guarantee people will ignore that and bring everything back to 2011.....

we are talking about achievements, not disappointments...he can make that list in achievements and then some, yet he could also make the list of one of the worst performances in finals from a star.

i'm keeping an open mind, but he probably won't surpass mike....

[Hands of Iron]

it will only be relevant to people who refuse to see the potential in his career.....if he puts up historic numbers from here on out I can guarantee people will ignore that and bring everything back to 2011.....

we are talking about achievements, not disappointments...he can make that list in achievements and then some, yet he could also make the list of one of the worst performances in finals from a star.

i'm keeping an open mind, but he probably won't surpass mike....

I'm not really worried about it one bit. I wanted him to follow up in the 2011 Finals what he did to Boston and Chicago in the series' just prior because I like to watch and appreciate greatness. I don't actively root against athletes just because I'm so worried about being a nut hugger and how it affects my guy. It's whatever.

Lebron dropped an all-time dud though, seriously. Major Dissapointment. I don't think the feeling will really subside unless he can win a couple more, preferably by repeating this coming season.

[Hands of Iron]

I will say however, that the 'Finals Record' is a really twisted "stat". By even bringing it up it could easily be implied that it suggests winning the Conference Finals and getting to the Championship Series and falling short is worse than getting knocked off in the first round or semi-finals.

[Da_Realist]

I will say however, that the 'Finals Record' is a really twisted "stat". By even bringing it up it could easily be implied that it suggests winning the Conference Finals and getting to the Championship Series and falling short is worse than getting knocked off in the first round or semi-finals.

It's just a lazy way of saying Jordan seemed to always come through on the biggest stage or when the stakes were the highest. "6 for 6" is a nice, clean way to illustrate something more complicated. It's perfect for message boards.

[eliteballer]

It seems as if the litmus test for greatness for basketball personalities (i.e. coaches and former players) is often different from that of fans. While as fans we go back and look at career accomplishments (i.e. how many MVPs, championships, "was he 'the man' for those championships", all star selections, stats titles, etc.), basketball personalities tend to look at the greats and judge by perceived talent and performance. The fact that legend X has 1 more MVP and 2 more rings than legend Y doesn't mean as much to them in the debate.

Think about any rec league you've played in and how players are percieved and you'll understand where they are coming from.

[tmacattack33]

It seems as if the litmus test for greatness for basketball personalities (i.e. coaches and former players) is often different from that of fans. While as fans we go back and look at career accomplishments (i.e. how many MVPs, championships, "was he 'the man' for those championships", all star selections, stats titles, etc.), basketball personalities tend to look at the greats and judge by perceived talent and performance. The fact that legend X has 1 more MVP and 2 more rings than legend Y doesn't mean as much to them in the debate.

Good. That sounds like me then.

[talkingconch]

He'll never challenge him

[OldSchoolBBall]

As good as Lebron is, he doesn't and will never pass the eye test that shows him to be better than Jordan. Watch any Jordan game from '90-'93 and you'll see an infinitely more refined, skilled, and intelligent player with comparable athleticism. Honestly, it's not that close imo.

[andgar923]

As good as Lebron is, he doesn't and will never pass the eye test that shows him to be better than Jordan. Watch any Jordan game from '90-'93 and you'll see an infinitely more refined, skilled, and intelligent player with comparable athleticism. Honestly, it's not that close imo.

Like some of us have mentioned in the past

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wait, isn't this the player that was outscored by a bench player and a dinosaur in last years Finals?

[DatAsh]

Wait, isn't this the player that was outscored by a bench player and a dinosaur in last years Finals?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

You guys crack me up on here

[scotty00007]

I hope people remember that when you go back and watch tapes of old school c ballers like Jordan, the majority of the games you can watch are only their best games which gives a false idea of them never playing like rubbish. Just like in twenty years and look at bron and Kobe. It will look like they never had a bad game

[DatAsh]

I hope people remember that when you go back and watch tapes of old school c ballers like Jordan, the majority of the games you can watch are only their best games which gives a false idea of them never playing like rubbish. Just like in twenty years and look at bron and Kobe. It will look like they never had a bad game


Most of the full Jordan games out there are finals games, which just so happened to be the games he played best in.

[Jacks3]

Watch any LeBron game from 09 and he looks like the GOAT.

[KOBE143]

I hope people remember that when you go back and watch tapes of old school c ballers like Jordan, the majority of the games you can watch are only their best games which gives a false idea of them never playing like rubbish. Just like in twenty years and look at bron and Kobe. It will look like they never had a bad game
Nope Lebrick has 2011 finals that will never be forgotten, MJ dont..

[LakersReign]

9 seasons in, Jordan had 3 rings/3 MVP's/3 Finals MVP's. LeBron has matched him in MVP's, but he only has 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP, and lost in the Finals on 2 other occasions. A good question is, could LeBron return to the NBA at 40 and put up 20 a night?

That right there killed the comparison for jump. As for him returning to play at 40, good luck with that. Lebron depends way too much on his youth and athleticism right now. And if he doesn't start working on learning other ways to score, he'll end up being useless.

[LongLiveTheKing]

Magic, Bird, Charles Barkley, Jim Boeheim all think LeBron can challenge Jordan as the greatest to ever play. What does that tell you?

[BoutPractice]

Jordan's level of play may be difficult to equal, but the notion that Jordan's resume cannot be surpassed is wrong imo.
I'm not saying it'll be by LeBron, because I personally don't believe it, but...

There are holes in Jordan's career.
For instance, he didn't play that many meaningful years (not counting post-2001), giving players in the future more opportunity to rack up rings and achievements provided they play 15+ seasons.
Some accused LeBron of quitting series, but let's not forget Jordan actually quit the whole game of basketball for two years (I realize he came back in the middle of the second one, but it wasn't a real season for him). Those two missing years can be the difference, in two years you can win two FMVPS...

Also, while LeBron may not be the GOAT, I believe he is the blueprint for the future real GOAT - a positionless player who dominates the whole game (ball distribution, scoring, rebounding, defense...) with his blend of physicality and all-around skills. He's the precursor to the next Jordan.
To be the undisputed GOAT, the next prodigy will have to combine LeBron's style of play with Jordan's mentality and be lucky enough to get a Russell like resume (8 rings or more).

[Hands of Iron]

It's just a lazy way of saying Jordan seemed to always come through on the biggest stage or when the stakes were the highest. "6 for 6" is a nice, clean way to illustrate something more complicated. It's perfect for message boards.


As good as Lebron is, he doesn't and will never pass the eye test that shows him to be better than Jordan. Watch any Jordan game from '90-'93 and you'll see an infinitely more refined, skilled, and intelligent player with comparable athleticism. Honestly, it's not that close imo.

Let's be real here, as I'm obviously not his biggest fan either. Jordan could've been the GOAT if he'd stayed retired and never came back after 1993. He was that great, folks. I often see people talk about his refinement, increased skill set and intelligence from 1996-98 and I really wonder what the **** they're on about. There wasnt anything to refine or any intelligence to gain. He'd already mastered the game, top to bottom, inside and out. The only difference is that he was 27-29 years old and still in his athletic prime. The mid-range shot was already deadly, the post game was there and the greatest first step explosion ever seen was in full effect. Those teams were also not nearly as complete as the 2nd threepeat so he got the opportunity to carry them to titles and that's what he did. The numbers and performances don't lie. They needed all of it.

In hindsight, I wish he'd have gone out like Jim Brown, Barry Sanders or Sandy Koufax. At the absolute (or very close to it) pinnacle of his career and leaving everybody wondering why (yeah I know Koufax had injuries) and not giving detractors the opportunity to know another reality. Of course, nobody is going to turn down 3 more titles (and Finals MVPs) and another 2 MVPs (shouldve been 3) to really push things out of reach, but it's clear as day he was past it for all of that. Saying anything else would be a disservice to his Real prime, real peak.

[franchiez]

If he wins his 8 titles, maybe. :lol

[DUP]

lets be real, here....









no

[LeBird]

I've said it before: Lebron is already, ability-wise, superior to Jordan IMO. Whether he has a better career (more championships, etc) is where the rest of his legacy rests.

Also, hate the way people like Boeheim frame the discussion as if by being better than Jordan you're automatically the GOAT. There are like 5 other guys who are GOAT candidates and if Lebron has a comparable career he'll be among them. Unless Lebron blows past everything Jordan did it will always be a debate; just as it should be.

[RazorBaLade]

ppl said this about kobe too remember guys?

we'll see what happens

[pauk]

Why not?

[Da_Realist]

Let's be real here, as I'm obviously not his biggest fan either. Jordan could've been the GOAT if he'd stayed retired and never came back after 1993. He was that great, folks. I often see people talk about his refinement, increased skill set and intelligence from 1996-98 and I really wonder what the **** they're on about. There wasnt anything to refine or any intelligence to gain. He'd already mastered the game, top to bottom, inside and out. The only difference is that he was 27-29 years old and still in his athletic prime. The mid-range shot was already deadly, the post game was there and the greatest first step explosion ever seen was in full effect. Those teams were also not nearly as complete as the 2nd threepeat so he got the opportunity to carry them to titles and that's what he did. The numbers and performances don't lie. They needed all of it.

Agreed


In hindsight, I wish he'd have gone out like Jim Brown, Barry Sanders or Sandy Koufax. At the absolute (or very close to it) pinnacle of his career and leaving everybody wondering why (yeah I know Koufax had injuries) and not giving detractors the opportunity to know another reality. Of course, nobody is going to turn down 3 more titles (and Finals MVPs) and another 2 MVPs (shouldve been 3) to really push things out of reach, but it's clear as day he was past it for all of that. Saying anything else would be a disservice to his Real prime, real peak.

He wasn't at his absolute peak in the late 90's but his level was higher than a lot of other player's absolute peaks. It was great seeing him put in work primarily from the post and as a Bulls fan it was great seeing 3 more titles. It was nice seeing him work against younger guys that could match his physical abilities (Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Chris Webber, etc) but not his mental ones. I do wish he had hung up the sneakers after the 98 championship. No, more accurately, once he decided to retire I wish he had stayed retired. I just don't see the point of the Washington years 3 or 4 years afterwards...

[Calabis]

Lebron's talent yes, but can he surpass Kobe first

[TheMan]

Let's be real here, as I'm obviously not his biggest fan either. Jordan could've been the GOAT if he'd stayed retired and never came back after 1993. He was that great, folks. I often see people talk about his refinement, increased skill set and intelligence from 1996-98 and I really wonder what the **** they're on about. There wasnt anything to refine or any intelligence to gain. He'd already mastered the game, top to bottom, inside and out. The only difference is that he was 27-29 years old and still in his athletic prime. The mid-range shot was already deadly, the post game was there and the greatest first step explosion ever seen was in full effect. Those teams were also not nearly as complete as the 2nd threepeat so he got the opportunity to carry them to titles and that's what he did. The numbers and performances don't lie. They needed all of it.

In hindsight, I wish he'd have gone out like Jim Brown, Barry Sanders or Sandy Koufax. At the absolute (or very close to it) pinnacle of his career and leaving everybody wondering why (yeah I know Koufax had injuries) and not giving detractors the opportunity to know another reality. Of course, nobody is going to turn down 3 more titles (and Finals MVPs) and another 2 MVPs (shouldve been 3) to really push things out of reach, but it's clear as day he was past it for all of that. Saying anything else would be a disservice to his Real prime, real peak.
:applause:

I have no idea what people like this Boehim guy see, LBJ, as good as he is, he is still not as good as prime Jordan and let's face it, I don't see LBJ getting better as he ages because skills wise, he is nowhere near Jordan. Athletically yes, fundamental skills, um no.

[riseagainst]

Lebron needs to surprise Kobe first before he surpasses Jordan.

[Hands of Iron]

Agreed



He wasn't at his absolute peak in the late 90's but his level was higher than a lot of other player's absolute peaks. It was great seeing him put in work primarily from the post and as a Bulls fan it was great seeing 3 more titles. It was nice seeing him work against younger guys that could match his physical abilities (Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Chris Webber, etc) but not his mental ones. I do wish he had hung up the sneakers after the 98 championship. No, more accurately, once he decided to retire I wish he had stayed retired. I just don't see the point of the Washington years 3 or 4 years afterwards...

Yeah, you wouldn't ever realistically want to turn down the type of success he still managed to have in his first comeback and it further cemented him. I just find that these days now that he's long gone, when I feel like watching an old Bulls game I instinctively gravitate towards the late 80s-early 90s. When I talk about or rate him, that's the player I have in mind. He didnt need to double his championship count to be the best player there's ever been, or at least a frontrunner for that title. Then again, I weigh peak probably more heavily than anything.

[Nash]

Kobe fans so salty, why? You guys know better than Boheim, Magic and Bird?

[Hands of Iron]

I've said it before: Lebron is already, ability-wise, superior to Jordan IMO. Whether he has a better career (more championships, etc) is where the rest of his legacy rests.

Also, hate the way people like Boeheim frame the discussion as if by being better than Jordan you're automatically the GOAT. There are like 5 other guys who are GOAT candidates and if Lebron has a comparable career he'll be among them. Unless Lebron blows past everything Jordan did it will always be a debate; just as it should be.

Do you think he's better than Bird? I see a guy who is vastly superior athletically and a better defender on the ball thanks to it as well as a superior finisher at the rim with little else convincingly going in his favor. (Comparing Lebron to Bird).


:applause:

I have no idea what people like this Boehim guy see, LBJ, as good as he is, he is still not as good as prime Jordan and let's face it, I don't see LBJ getting better as he ages because skills wise, he is nowhere near Jordan. Athletically yes, fundamental skills, um no.

Boeheim is pretty close to Lebron so it's not really surprising. Lebron isnt keeping pace with Jordan through 9 seasons and he's going to fall off much faster. MJ had the presence of mind and ability to perfect his offensive arsenal and put it to full use before his physical prime left him.

[Da_Realist]

Yeah, you wouldn't ever realistically want to turn down the type of success he still managed to have in his first comeback and it further cemented him. I just find that these days now that he's long gone, when I feel like watching an old Bulls game I instinctively gravitate towards the late 80s-early 90s. When I talk about or rate him, that's the player I have in mind. He didnt need to double his championship count to be the best player there's ever been, or at least a frontrunner for that title. Then again, I weigh peak probably more heavily than anything.

I'm with you on this. I like to extend it further and look at the play surrounding his peak performance as well. Was he wise beyond his years (beforehand)? Could he adapt to losing some of his abilities (afterwards)? I think it's important to win but expecting someone to match or exceed someone else's career totals is asinine considering all the circumstances that affect winning titles/awards.

[Hands of Iron]

I'm with you on this. I like to extend it further and look at the play surrounding his peak performance as well. Was he wise beyond his years (beforehand)? Could he adapt to losing some of his abilities (afterwards)? I think it's important to win but expecting someone to match or exceed someone else's career totals is asinine considering all the circumstances that affect winning titles/awards.

This is why I can't really find the effort to seriously put together a numerically ordered All-Time Great list. The best players I've seen either live or on film are Jordan, Bird and Hakeem. That I do know and feel. How they shake out on the accomplishments and criteria for greatness isn't a great concern for me, all I know is that they validated what I saw from them by getting whatever amount of accolades or numbers or performances you need to get to be considered a top ten player. I like comparing two or three to eachother, but I've never been assed into placing all of them in a specific order.

[Shade8780]

LeBetterthantheGOATMichaelJordanreallyevenJimBoehe imsaidsowelltobehonestheisanathleticfreakandbythee ndofhiscareerhewillhaveabout3-5rings4or5mvpsandwillbetop5material James :bowdown:

[Da_Realist]

This is why I can't really find the effort to seriously put together a numerically ordered All-Time Great list. The best players I've seen either live or on film are Jordan, Bird and Hakeem. That I do know and feel. How they shake out on the accomplishments and criteria for greatness isn't a great concern for me, all I know is that they validated what I saw from them by getting whatever amount of accolades or numbers or performances you need to get to be considered a top ten player. I like comparing two or three to eachother, but I've never been assed into placing all of them in a specific order.

Exactly :cheers:

[Timmy D for MVP]

Of course he could challenge MJ as the best ever. This is such a non-story.

Lebron is one of 3 who, imo, were GOAT candidates:

Lebron James
Shaq
David Robinson

All supremely gifted, gifted enough to dominate in a manner that would have them sitting in the top tier and challenging MJ.

But then what happened?

Lebron in 2010, joins the Heat, then 2011.
David Robinson doesn't have IT. The drive, the killer instinct, none of it.
Shaq gets lazy.

All great players, but none match Jordan. Jordan had everything, the whole package. That term gets used a lot in sports these days, but it doesn't really apply. It does to Jordan. He had the mental abilities, the physical gifts, the drive, the sense of moment, etc.

Can Lebron challenge Jordan? Of course he could. So could Player X in 10 years. And Player Y soon after that. We see players with ability a good amount. The question is WILL they challenge him.

I have yet to see a player or person fit into that particular category. As much as it seems that Lebron has turned a corner, he will always be dogged with joining forces, will likely never be as good defensively, and it is yet to be seen how his career winds down.

[Hands of Iron]

Do you think he's better than Bird? I see a guy who is vastly superior athletically and a better defender on the ball thanks to it as well as a superior finisher at the rim with little else convincingly going in his favor. (Comparing Lebron to Bird).



Boeheim is pretty close to Lebron so it's not really surprising. Lebron isnt keeping pace with Jordan through 9 seasons and he's going to fall off much faster. MJ had the presence of mind and ability to perfect his offensive arsenal and put it to full use before his physical prime left him.

Though on second thought, it doesn't take much more than being a freak athlete with GOAT Level ability to finish at the rim to be more effective than 99% of all players there's ever been.

[westside_baller]

Bird was the superior shooter by far and a superior rebounder. Bird was a superior clutch player (last possession). Bird was winning titles in the prime magic era as well, and against a near prime Dr. J.


Do you think he's better than Bird? I see a guy who is vastly superior athletically and a better defender on the ball thanks to it as well as a superior finisher at the rim with little else convincingly going in his favor. (Comparing Lebron to Bird).



Boeheim is pretty close to Lebron so it's not really surprising. Lebron isnt keeping pace with Jordan through 9 seasons and he's going to fall off much faster. MJ had the presence of mind and ability to perfect his offensive arsenal and put it to full use before his physical prime left him.

[Indian guy]

In terms of game-impact, I think peak LeBron('09 and '10) compares fairly well with MJ. But he simply doesn't have the basketball ability to actually surpass him. MJ's scoring versatility gave him tools to raise his game on command, to play various styles against different defenses, and to avoid off games/moments on the big stage with a frequency that LeBron can't really claim to. He's just not skilled enough. MJ combined GOAT-level athleticism with GOAT skill-level and competitiveness. How do you top that? You can't. That's why I can't imagine anyone being better than him. LeBron, *IF* he can continue what he showed in the Olympics(which is a magical rediscovery of old athletic gifts) and maintain it for a few more years, he has a shot at Top 5.

[2LeTTeRS]

Based on some of the negatives I've seen from Bron that MJ never displayed (i.e. ECF against Boston in '10 and finals against the Mavs last year) I don't believe he has a chance to ever fairly rated as better than Jordan overall, but I do believe its possible (although not probable) that he has a peak that is as good or better than Mike.

[Hands of Iron]

Bird was the superior shooter by far and a superior rebounder. Bird was a superior clutch player (last possession). Bird was winning titles in the prime magic era as well, and against a near prime Dr. J.

More versatile scorer as well. Better from the post, mid-range, long-range, deep, from the free throw line. Obviously superior playing off the ball. Better rebounder, yes. The category that encompasses the passing/playmaking/court vision aspect could be decidedly called even although Bird didn't have to dominate the basketball in the same fashion to rack up his dimes. FGAs are FGAs too, even though Boston played at a pace that registered in the bottom half of the league during his peak and he scored most of his points in half-court sets, not on fastbreaks. But whatever.

[Da_Realist]

In terms of game-impact, I think peak LeBron('09 and '10) compares fairly well with MJ. But he simply doesn't have the basketball ability to actually surpass him. MJ's scoring versatility gave him tools to raise his game on command, to play various styles against different defenses, and to avoid off games/moments on the big stage with a frequency that LeBron can't really claim to. He's just not skilled enough. MJ combined GOAT-level athleticism with GOAT skill-level and competitiveness. How do you top that? You can't. That's why I can't imagine anyone being better than him. LeBron, *IF* he can continue what he showed in the Olympics(which is a magical rediscovery of old athletic gifts) and maintain it for a few more years, he has a shot at Top 5.

5 star post :applause:

[Vertical-24]

LeBron has been better than Jordan since he was in AAU. Why people so madd?

http://i.imgur.com/KcVZv.jpg

[NumberSix]

LeBron has been better than Jordan since he was in AAU. Why people so madd?

http://i.imgur.com/KcVZv.jpg
nice

[Hands of Iron]

Through 9 NBA seasons

REGULAR SEASON:
Lebron James: 27.6 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 6.9 apg, 1.7 spg, 48.3% FG
Michael Jordan: 32.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.7 spg, 51.6% FG

PLAYOFFS:
Lebron James: 28.5 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 6.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 46.9% FG
Michael Jordan: 34.7 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 6.6 apg, 2.3 spg, 50.1% FG

NBA TITLES
Lebron James: 1
Michael Jordan: 3 (6 career)

NBA MVP AWARDS
Lebron James: 3
Michael Jordan: 3 (5 career)

NBA FINALS MVP AWARDS
Lebron James: 1
Michael Jordan: 3 (6 career)

NBA SCORING TITLES
Lebron James: 1
Michael Jordan: 7 (10 career)

DEF PLAYER OF THE YEAR
Lebron James: 0
Michael Jordan: 1

NBA FINALS PERFORMANCES
Lebron James, 2007: 22.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.8 apg, 1.0 spg, 35.6% FG
Lebron James, 2011: 17.8 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 6.8 apg, 1.7 spg, 47.8% FG
Lebron James, 2012: 28.6 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 7.4 apg, 1.6 spg, 47.2% FG

Michael Jordan, 1991: 31.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 11.4 apg, 2.8 spg, 55.8% FG
Michael Jordan, 1992: 35.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.7 spg, 52.6% FG
Michael Jordan, 1993: 41.0 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 50.8% FG


You are Not The One. :no:

[BruceLeeBowen]

Dude can easily surpass shaq/kobe and challenge the likes of magic:rockon: but kareem and jordan? possible, but unlikely. Especially how the media blow up his performance during the Mavs series.

[Kujo]

Nonsense. Get back to me when Lebron has at least 6 titles.

[jongib369]

they seriously need to stop inflating player heights :facepalm

[LeBird]

Do you think he's better than Bird? I see a guy who is vastly superior athletically and a better defender on the ball thanks to it as well as a superior finisher at the rim with little else convincingly going in his favor. (Comparing Lebron to Bird).

I think fundamentals-wise, Bird is unmatched. I think when you look at basketball skill-sets Bird is still the best - better than Jordan, better than Lebron, better than everyone. However, Lebron is excellent at basically everything, continues to improve, and his physical ability coupled with those skills is something that hasn't been seen in my viewing time. Magic was the standard, and Lebron is Magic on crack for me. He is not only tall, but fast, and skilful. He can basically play any position in attack and defense.

There definitely is the argument that Lebron is the best all-round player of all time with the basketball skills to match almost anyone, the physical prowess to match almost anyone, and as a package no one is as good as him.

Again, ability-wise he's already as good as anyone and only someone blind would deny it. Whether he achieves all that he should is what determines whether he gets into the GOAT convo.


This is why I can't really find the effort to seriously put together a numerically ordered All-Time Great list. The best players I've seen either live or on film are Jordan, Bird and Hakeem. That I do know and feel. How they shake out on the accomplishments and criteria for greatness isn't a great concern for me, all I know is that they validated what I saw from them by getting whatever amount of accolades or numbers or performances you need to get to be considered a top ten player. I like comparing two or three to eachother, but I've never been assed into placing all of them in a specific order.

I agree. I've basically said that Bird is my favourite player but it's too hard to really numerically rank players. You could basically swap the top 7-8 players around in any order and it'd make sense and have logical rationale.

[lakers_forever]

Look. Lebron is easily the best player in the world right now. But Jordan was simply a better player than him. And yes also a better defender.

Why do people insist with this lie that Lebron can play and defend all positions?
He does not have the post game to play as Center. And he clearly can't defend Centers (or PF's who play like centers). Guys like Ibaka and Gasol can and did get antyhing they wanted with Lebron guarding them.

And if there has been a guy who could defend well all positions, his name was Dennis Rodman.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/Rodman_Lipofsky.jpg/220px-Rodman_Lipofsky.jpg

[Chrono90]

Not sure if serious :facepalm

I feel like people stopped searching for hard evidence stats after a while.

[Hands of Iron]

Peak Comparison

Lebron James:
08: 30/8/7 on 48/32/71 (Playoffs: 28/8/8 on 41/26/73)
09: 28/8/7 on 49/34/78 (Playoffs: 35/9/7 on 51/33/75)
10: 30/7/9 on 50/33/77 (Playoffs: 29/8/8 on 50/40/73)
11: 27/7/7 on 51/33/76 (Playoffs: 24/8/6 on 47/35/76)
12: 27/8/6 on 53/36/77 (Playoffs: 30/10/6 on 50/26/74)

Michael Jordan:
89: 33/8/8 on 54/28/85 (Playoffs: 35/7/8 on 51/29/80)
90: 34/7/6 on 53/38/85 (Playoffs: 37/7/7 on 51/32/84)
91: 32/6/6 on 54/31/85 (Playoffs: 31/6/8 on 52/39/85)
92: 30/6/6 on 52/27/83 (Playoffs: 35/6/6 on 50/39/86)
93: 33/7/6 on 50/35/84 (Playoffs: 35/7/6 on 48/39/81)

[riseagainst]

Peak Comparison

Lebron James:
08: 30/8/7 on 48/32/71 (Playoffs: 28/8/8 on 41/26/73)
09: 28/8/7 on 49/34/78 (Playoffs: 35/9/7 on 51/33/75)
10: 30/7/9 on 50/33/77 (Playoffs: 29/8/8 on 50/40/73)
11: 27/7/7 on 51/33/76 (Playoffs: 24/8/6 on 47/35/76)
12: 27/8/6 on 53/36/77 (Playoffs: 30/10/6 on 50/26/74)

Michael Jordan:
89: 33/8/8 on 54/28/85 (Playoffs: 35/7/8 on 51/29/80)
90: 34/7/6 on 53/38/85 (Playoffs: 37/7/7 on 51/32/84)
91: 32/6/6 on 54/31/85 (Playoffs: 31/6/8 on 52/39/85)
92: 30/6/6 on 52/27/83 (Playoffs: 35/6/6 on 50/39/86)
93: 33/7/6 on 50/35/84 (Playoffs: 35/7/6 on 48/39/81)

wow Jordan is really impressive. :bowdown:

[eliteballer]

A year after averaging 12 points in the Finals he's better than MJ.
:roll:

[D.J.]

A year after averaging 12 points in the Finals he's better than MJ.
:roll:

24
20
17
8
17
21


That's an average of 17.8

[Hands of Iron]

24
20
17
8
17
21


That's an average of 17.8

31
42
44
55
41
33

That's an average of 41.0

[Mach_3]

31
42
44
55
41
33

That's an average of 41.0


This is partly what im saying, As good as Lebron is, the eye test shows me Jordan was clearly on another level then Lebron. ESPECIALLY in the playoffs when stakes are the highest. And that doesn't even start delving into the rule changes which help inflate players numbers in today's era

[RaininTwos]

:roll: @ Jordan being on another level.