Keep Harden and Ibaka, trade away Perkins?

[imnew09]

If I were the OKC manager, I would keep both Harden and Ibaka and trade away Perkins to have some cap space. Trading Perkins seems to be the only way to keep both player unless OKC is willing to sign four players max contract, and faces luxury tax.

What do you guys think? Harden, Ibaka, or Perkins?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

They'll probably amnesty Perkins since I doubt they could find someone who wants to trade for him/

[Batz]

But he's there Dwight stopper!!!

[50inchvertical]

Who wants Perkins 3 yrd over 24mil left on his contract? Now if he amnestied him, no doubt playoff teams would be looking to pick him up on the cheap.

I think we are going to end up losing Ibaka and Maynor (cap for him is like 4.5 a yr), and extend James before the season is over.

[KeyNote]

I think the obvious choice is Harder/Ibaka over perk

whatever you have to do to keep the core of KD-westbrook-harden-ibaka together, you do it...pieces around that core can be easily replaced

[Haymaker]

Dwight will rape them if they get rid of Perk.

[28renyoy]

You play this season with Perkins to make it past LA as he is absolutely necessary vs Dwight.

However LA is going to be much worse in 2013-14, compared to 2012-13, due to the age factor. Kobe, Nash, and Gasol are all going to be on their last legs. You have to take you chances that year.

So amnesty Perkins in 2013-14 and re-sign both Ibaka & Harden.

[StateOfMind12]

No, OKC should trade Harden and that's it. Keep Ibaka and Perkins because they will be key especially against the Lakers. Harden is a joke though.

[imnew09]

But is Harden willing to be the sixth man? That's one of the biggest concern.

[TheeBeast]

You play this season with Perkins to make it past LA as he is absolutely necessary vs Dwight.


What? Dwight beasts on Perkins in the playoffs :oldlol:

[swi7ch]

Why? Perk is the D12 stopper.

[Haymaker]

No, OKC should trade Harden and that's it. Keep Ibaka and Perkins because they will be key especially against the Lakers. Harden is a joke though.
Harden for Iggy?

[TheeBeast]

Why? Perk is the D12 stopper.

Yeah he stops D12 by only letting him score 19/14/1/3 on 56%

:facepalm

[The Choken One]

Yeah he stops D12 by only letting him score 19/14/1/3 on 56%

:facepalm
While this may be true... Perk is one of the better defenders at the center position(not saying much due to how shitty most are).

Who are they going to guard D12 with now? Collison or Aldrich(sp?)? :roll:

I'd be shipping Harden out ASAP. I don't see the fascination in this guy. Chit defender and if he isn't getting calls on offense is awful.

[TheeBeast]

While this may be true... Perk is one of the better defenders at the center position(not saying much due to how shitty most are).

Who are they going to guard D12 with now? Collison or Aldrich(sp?)? :roll:

True, but I'm only giving the facts. Dwight puts up those numbers in 13 playoff games VS. Perkins. And that was with a top defensive team with the Celtics. I don't get the whole hype of Perkins being the only one who could stop Dwight, cuz he just doesn't.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=howardw01&p2=perkike01

[FireDavidKahn]

Perkins is so overrated. He will eventually be amnestied.

[28renyoy]

I would try to trade Harden & Perkins TBH. Ibaka is african, as bad as it sounds, and I would assume he is far more loyal to a team that took him in as opposed to an american born player. He would take a lower offer to stay with the team in all likelihood.

I would trade Harden/Perkins for an elite center and a shooter at SG.

I'd love Harden for Greg Monroe and Perkins for Brandon Rush

[Suckafree]

While this may be true... Perk is one of the better defenders at the center position(not saying much due to how shitty most are).
Who are they going to guard D12 with now? Collison or Aldrich(sp?)? :roll:



The things is, when it comes to guarding a guy like Dwight, most of the defense is played below the rim and before he gets the ball.

So guys with solid bases with some mobility, like Collison, could actually have success against somebody like Dwight. I'm really not sure who would do a better job out of Perk and Collison.
It's just that when Dwight actually does get the ball, Perk has more of a chance of getting a stop than collison would.
But that still doesn't change the fact that Collison (who is more mobile), is more likely to do a better job on Dwight before he gets the ball by way of pushing him off his spot, manouvering around Dwights post ups and Boxing out.

Now I don't know what the H2H matchups are like between Perk/Dwight and Collison/Dwight, but this is just how Im seeing things right now.

[TheeBeast]

Another problem with Perkins is he could easily kill the Thunder's rhythm in the playoffs if he gets into any kind of foul trouble with Dwight.

[Batz]

[QUOTE=The Choken One]While this may be true... Perk is one of the better defenders at the center position(not saying much due to how shitty most are).
Who are they going to guard D12 with now? Collison or Aldrich(sp?)? :roll:

QUOTE]

The things is, when it comes to guarding a guy like Dwight, most of the defense is played below the rim and before he gets the ball.

So guys with solid bases with some mobility, like Collison, could actually have success against somebody like Dwight. I'm really not sure who would do a better job out of Perk and Collison.
It's just that when Dwight actually does get the ball, Perk has more of a chance of getting a stop than collison would.
But that still doesn't change the fact that Collison (who is more mobile), is more likely to do a better job on Dwight before he gets the ball by way of pushing him off his spot, manouvering around Dwights post ups and Boxing out.

Now I don't know what the H2H matchups are like between Perk/Dwight and Collison/Dwight, but this is just how Im seeing things right now.
Funny. Because alot of Howard's points come off of assisted plays, offensive rebounds, and transition. So you can block him out of the post all you want, he's going to get 20 pts on decent efficiency without much trouble anyways. Especially factoring in you got Nash, Bryant, Gasol, Jamison around to make things easier for him. Much easier.

So Perkins and whoever are useless. I remember the Celtics were having a great time against Howard with just Glen Davis on him, because their system defense was absolutely superb. It would take a great defensive effort to basically stop Howard and the Lakers. And Miami are the only team who can do so, despite not having that big-man body. OKC is next in-line though. For sure.

Another problem with Perkins is he could easily kill the Thunder's rhythm in the playoffs if he gets into any kind of foul trouble with Dwight.
Oh he'll kill the Thunder's rhythm regardless. He really sucks.

[roffie]

thunder would be idiots if they keep perkins over harden/ibaka. the sky is still high for them and have been improving every season, where as you won't be getting much from perkins from here on...

[hawkfan]

Harden, Ibaka and Perkins for Dwight Howard.
Better than the deal that Orlando got.

[Rowe]

You need Perkins now to guard Dwight Howard.

He can't "stop" him, but if he can keep Dwight under 20 points and from dominating the game on both ends instead of just defense then Perk has done a great job.

[50inchvertical]

Well, Dwight did have 33 on 14 of 20 fgs last time they played

[StateOfMind12]

Harden for Iggy?
Pretty good deal but I was thinking Harden for Eric Gordon.

Think about it, right now the Hornets are missing a PG and neither Rivers or Gordon can play PG. Eric Gordon and Austin Rivers are both SGs, who do not, should not, and cannot play the PG position.

If they trade Gordon for Harden, Rivers could play SG full-time and not pretend to be a point or make an attempt to try to play PG and Harden could play PG and run their offense.

Gordon would be a great fit for OKC as well since he is a very good defender and a much better scorer and creator than Harden is.

[KeyNote]

Perk is gonna have to defend that nash/howard, kobe/howard pick & roll now...none of that 1 in 4 out offense like van gundy ran...dwight is gonna be on the move a lot more..good luck keeping up

[DStebb716]

It's not a matter of "keep this player over this player" when talking about these three. You get no value out of Perkins. You get value out of the other two.

[BoNafidde]

They HAVE to keep him to match up with Dwight....unless you guys are hoping Thabeet gets good :lol

[TheeBeast]

They HAVE to keep him to match up with Dwight....unless you guys are hoping Thabeet gets good :lol

Dwight is gonna get his numbers either way. Perk has no offense against him, at least Ibaka and Harden add to their offense.

[50inchvertical]

Pretty good deal but I was thinking Harden for Eric Gordon.

Think about it, right now the Hornets are missing a PG and neither Rivers or Gordon can play PG. Eric Gordon and Austin Rivers are both SGs, who do not, should not, and cannot play the PG position.

If they trade Gordon for Harden, Rivers could play SG full-time and not pretend to be a point or make an attempt to try to play PG and Harden could play PG and run their offense.

Gordon would be a great fit for OKC as well since he is a very good defender and a much better scorer and creator than Harden is.
Nope, although that is the deal that same Twitter troll made up and had James convinced he had been traded to New Orleans.

And if our problem is wondering whether or not we can afford James, why would we trade him for a massively overpaid Gordon? Trade doesn't work out for oKC on any level :facepalm

[swi7ch]

Yeah he stops D12 by only letting him score 19/14/1/3 on 56%

:facepalm
Still better than any other center in the leauge where D12 would put up 29/18/5 on 60%

At least Perk limits his numbers and best of all, frustrates him!

[TheeBeast]

Still better than any other center in the leauge where D12 would put up 29/18/5 on 60%

At least Perk limits his numbers and best of all, frustrates him!

Fair enough. I still think 19-21 is fine for Dwight when we have so many options. I think his primary job will be to dominate the paint on the defensive end while still getting those numbers, but way less offensive pressure.

He keeps Perks at low numbers, that brings more pressure to Durant,Westbrook,Ibaka.

[imnew09]

People keep on ignoring the question that is Harden willing to be the sixth man.
Personally, I doubt it; I feel like he wants to be a starter because he has been putting up starters numbers.

[Whoah10115]

Pretty good deal but I was thinking Harden for Eric Gordon.

Think about it, right now the Hornets are missing a PG and neither Rivers or Gordon can play PG. Eric Gordon and Austin Rivers are both SGs, who do not, should not, and cannot play the PG position.

If they trade Gordon for Harden, Rivers could play SG full-time and not pretend to be a point or make an attempt to try to play PG and Harden could play PG and run their offense.

Gordon would be a great fit for OKC as well since he is a very good defender and a much better scorer and creator than Harden is.



You actually do know what you're talking about..just not here. I have no idea why you seem to hate Harden, but either way, he isn't a PG. He's a playmaking 2guard who's a combo guard. You'd rather get his playmaking from the 2 than the point.



Westbrook is not really a PG. So it's better to have a playmaker and combo guard next to him, as opposed to a scoring 2guard who likes to have the ball.


Besides, if the issue is money, then how does it make sense to bring in Eric Gordon?

[StateOfMind12]

You actually do know what you're talking about..just not here. I have no idea why you seem to hate Harden, but either way, he isn't a PG. He's a playmaking 2guard who's a combo guard. You'd rather get his playmaking from the 2 than the point.
Either way he would be running the offense and that is something neither Gordon or Rivers is capable of doing. They need someone running that offense and Harden would be good for that.



Westbrook is not really a PG. So it's better to have a playmaker and combo guard next to him, as opposed to a scoring 2guard who likes to have the ball.
Westbrook is capable of being a PG, he averaged 8+ apg in 2010 and 2011. He was just asked to take on more of a scoring role last season.

It's better to have Gordon to be honest because OKC plays street ball lite/iso-heavy. They don't score off of ball-movement, they score off of their ability to isolate and off the dribble. They changed it up in the Spurs series but every other series they were iso-heavy.

Gordon is a better iso player than Harden is.

Harden needs screens and picks to score and once you learn how to defend and read that pick, he becomes useless and exposed and you can see the Finals if you want to know what I am talking about. Harden was invisible in the Finals and was completely exposed. Why? Because the pressure got to him and the other is because Miami is the best defensive pick and roll team in basketball.

Also, Gordon is a much better defender than Harden. Harden is honestly a defensive liability out there and I'm not even exaggerating or kidding here. It seems like whoever he guards will always score. I know he was the guy giving Kobe most of his points in the WCSF but when Thabo and Durant were guarding him, he couldn't score at all.

It pissed me off when I heard that Harden made the USA team over Gordon, awful decision.

[ZenMaster]

Still better than any other center in the leauge where D12 would put up 29/18/5 on 60%

At least Perk limits his numbers and best of all, frustrates him!

Dwight has never averaged over 23ppg, last year he was at 20 and 3 years ago at 18, so something in your post doesn't add up.

[TheeBeast]

Dwight has never averaged over 23ppg, last year he was at 20 and 3 years ago at 18, so something in your post doesn't add up.

He did average 27/15.5 on 62% against the Hawks in 2011, the last playoff series he had.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsCCrNbWo94

"Notice, no double teaming" :lol

[Haymaker]

Still better than any other center in the leauge where D12 would put up 29/18/5 on 60%

At least Perk limits his numbers and best of all, frustrates him!

Exactly. Perkins is Dwight's most formidable opponent along with Bynum.

[ZenMaster]

He did average 27/15.5 on 62% against the Hawks in 2011, the last playoff series he had.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsCCrNbWo94

"Notice, no double teaming" :lol

Was just pointing out that the guy pumped up Perkins defense on the account that Dwight dominates more against others than he really does.

[Rowe]

People keep on ignoring the question that is Harden willing to be the sixth man.
Personally, I doubt it; I feel like he wants to be a starter because he has been putting up starters numbers.

What is this major point on him being a starter? He plays "starter" minutes.

The only reason Harden doesn't start is because you have an All-Defense guy in Sefo at SG for OKC to start out with good defense to limit their opponents to start the game before they bring Harden in to bring more scoring to the table.

Thats his niche and its the best way for them to use him.

[BlackVVaves]

Either way he would be running the offense and that is something neither Gordon or Rivers is capable of doing. They need someone running that offense and Harden would be good for that.


Westbrook is capable of being a PG, he averaged 8+ apg in 2010 and 2011. He was just asked to take on more of a scoring role last season.

It's better to have Gordon to be honest because OKC plays street ball lite/iso-heavy. They don't score off of ball-movement, they score off of their ability to isolate and off the dribble. They changed it up in the Spurs series but every other series they were iso-heavy.

Gordon is a better iso player than Harden is.

Harden needs screens and picks to score and once you learn how to defend and read that pick, he becomes useless and exposed and you can see the Finals if you want to know what I am talking about. Harden was invisible in the Finals and was completely exposed. Why? Because the pressure got to him and the other is because Miami is the best defensive pick and roll team in basketball.

Also, Gordon is a much better defender than Harden. Harden is honestly a defensive liability out there and I'm not even exaggerating or kidding here. It seems like whoever he guards will always score. I know he was the guy giving Kobe most of his points in the WCSF but when Thabo and Durant were guarding him, he couldn't score at all.

It pissed me off when I heard that Harden made the USA team over Gordon, awful decision.

Let me get this straight.

OKC will ultimately have to move either Perkins, Ibaka, or Harden, as they will not be able to resign Ibaka who will command +10 Million/yr and Harden who will command close to a max contact.

So your solution is to trade Harden for a player who makes more money than Harden, in fact, someone who just signed a max contract?

[sfballa13]

Harden was exposed in the Finals/Olympics

He is vastly overrated

Same goes for Perkins

OKC would benefit from packaging Perk+Harden this year for a quality scoring big man and resigning Ibaka.

Keeping Perk+Harden = Disaster for OKC

But in all reality as long as Kobe+Dwight+Nash there is no way the NBA allows the OKC Thunder in the finals. It will be Kobe vs Lebron until Kobe hangs em up.

Imagine this story line for next years finals "Kobe and Bron try to reach Jordan status (Kobe going for the tie in championships, Bron going for his first back to back, really the first step in comparing himself to Jordan)

You think Stern is going to pass up that cash cow? No sir.

Not to mention Dwight and ESPECIALLY Nash winning his first championship is media/ratings GOLD.

Save this thread, OKC peaked last year with their squad, they should look to move Perkins+Harden before people realize what Harden really is, an overrated bench scorer

[Rubio2Gasol]

Trade Harden for John Wall lmao.

Honestly.....I can see Ibaka ending up in LA.....automatic from 15 feet , might be able to develop a 3 and LA will be the best defensive team in the league for 5 or 6 years.

[imnew09]

What is this major point on him being a starter? He plays "starter" minutes.

The only reason Harden doesn't start is because you have an All-Defense guy in Sefo at SG for OKC to start out with good defense to limit their opponents to start the game before they bring Harden in to bring more scoring to the table.

Thats his niche and its the best way for them to use him.

The major point is that is Harden willing to resign with the Thunder despite that he has to come off of the bench? I know the reason why he doesn't start, and yes, it's best for the THUNDER to use him as a sixth man. But I highly doubt the fact that he wants to be the sixth man because not many people are willing to take that role.

If you are having "stars" numbers, why would you want to sit on the bench? I know for me, I wouldn't want that.

[scm5]

OKC should amnesty Perkins and try to trade for Kwame if all they need is someone who can play D at C.

Kwame is bad offensively, but defensively imo, is as good as Perkins.

[gasolina]

OKC just in a tough spot. THey need Perk against the Lakers, Grizzlies, Spurs but he's absolutely useless against Miami

[Nick Young]

Perkins will be useless vs LA as well.

Despite his reputation as a D12 stopper, Howard actually averages ABOVE HIS SEASON AVERAGES against this scub perkins. In other words Howard plays BETTER and SCORES MORE vs perkins then he does on a normal night.

Perkins has a reputation he doesnt deserve after he was carried to a ring by 3 HOFers and a top 5 PG.

[crisoner]

Send Perk back to Boston

[gasolina]

Perkins will be useless vs LA as well.

Despite his reputation as a D12 stopper, Howard actually averages ABOVE HIS SEASON AVERAGES against this scub perkins. In other words Howard plays BETTER and SCORES MORE vs perkins then he does on a normal night.
I guess the reason Dwight scores a lot against Perkins is because Perk takes him one on one. It's like what Jason Collins did to Howard last year. Howard exploded but no other Magic player saw an open shot and they shot terribly and lost that series.

I'd like to see the head to head record of Perk and Dwight.

[imdaman99]

keep harden and keep his beard...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zr7lY4WsFA

[Nick Young]

I guess the reason Dwight scores a lot against Perkins is because Perk takes him one on one. It's like what Jason Collins did to Howard last year. Howard exploded but no other Magic player saw an open shot and they shot terribly and lost that series.

I'd like to see the head to head record of Perk and Dwight.
Perk averages below his averages, Dwight averages above his

but Perkins is the Dwight stopper!!!
:facepalm

[amfirst]

Harden is essential for the bench. Take him out and they have a really weak bench. Harden was able to put other teams on their heals.

[waseem780]

You cannot replace a 3 bpg big man or a 16 ppg sixth man. but you can replace a 5 ppg 6 rpg 6 '10 defensive center. easily.

[Rubio2Gasol]

They need Ibaka.

But the need him manning the paint, not chasing Bosh on the perimeter.

[PyrrhusX]

Amnesty him or trade him with Harden in a pakage.
Im willing to bet on Ibakas growth (hopefully) on his defensive game and his moves posting up..

Bt it is only viable for us to keep the two if this route is taken really... In the end, hopefully PJ3 pans out and Reggie can develop.

[Cowboy Thunder]

Save this thread, OKC peaked last year with their squad, they should look to move Perkins+Harden before people realize what Harden really is, an overrated bench scorer

Only on ISH


Lol