Now that Bynum is on Philly is he capable of putting up Peak Yao numbers?

[Yung D-Will]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mingya01.html



Keep in mind whether he can actually ever be as good as Yao is another question.

[bfrombleacher]

Holy sh*t. Career 20/10 almost with 2 blocks a game.

Edit: and yes, playing injured for almost his entire career

[Raz]

I could see him averaging the same amount of games played per season.

[BlackVVaves]

I could see him averaging the same amount of games played per season.

Bad knees aren't anything that get better with age, or size. A healthy Bynum, production wise, could be a top 10 player in the league.

But, Philly will be paying a steep price for a player who typically misses 30% of each season. Also, I truly don't think Bynum's stats are necessarily the kind that translate into wins, though that is just an opinion with no factual evidence since we've never seen him as the main guy on a team. I think we'll finally know what and who Bynum really is these next two seasons, for better or for worse.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I think a completely healthy Bynum completely engaged and given enough room to work could very well be the best player in this league one day.

But Philly plays at such a breakneck pace , always looking to push etc, it's going to be a hard transition.

[BlackVVaves]

I think a completely healthy Bynum completely engaged and given enough room to work could very well be the best player in this league one day.

But Philly plays at such a breakneck pace , always looking to push etc, it's going to be a hard transition.

They're obviously going to slow the pace of their game down.

[Yung D-Will]

They're obviously going to slow the pace of their game down.


If your best player is a half court player, clearly you're going to slow the pace. Iggy was awful in the half court lol.

Anyhow no ones answering the question, which is whether Bynum's production will be similar to a healthy Yao mings.

[knickballer]

Bynum will definitely get his points that's for sure but I don't think Bynum is close to being the team player that Yao was. Yao also had greater range in his offense and had a nice jumper for a giant.

But if Bynum is healthy I think he scores more points than Yao. Philly's offense will run through him and he'll get his touches.

[Rubio2Gasol]

They're obviously going to slow the pace of their game down.


Either way , it's going to be a touch transition.

Their roster isn't exactly suited to a slow pace at the moment.I think he and the team will suffer a bit in the beginning but eventually they'll figure it out.Especially if he gets healthier and starts running the floor more like he did for the first time last season.

[knickballer]

Either way , it's going to be a touch transition.

Their roster isn't exactly suited to a slow pace at the moment.I think he and the team will suffer a bit in the beginning but eventually they'll figure it out.Especially if he gets healthier and starts running the floor more like he did for the first time last season.

I also don't think they have the deadly shooters to free him up in the paint. Holiday seems like a okay shooter(not sure), Turner doesn't seem like an effective long range shooter, etc.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Nick young and Richardson are decent , especially richardson having played in orlando is pretty prepared.

But Spencer Hawes is not the person you out next to Bynum.

[franchiez]

He will definitely be a standout in the league. Hes THE guy in Philly.

[Yung D-Will]

Bynum will definitely get his points that's for sure but I don't think Bynum is close to being the team player that Yao was. Yao also had greater range in his offense and had a nice jumper for a giant.

But if Bynum is healthy I think he scores more points than Yao. Philly's offense will run through him and he'll get his touches.
How about rebounds/blocks?

[KLovin]

Well, it depends on the differences between what LA had around Bynum and what the 6'ers will have around Bynum. It's tough to say how good the spacing will be for Bynum in Philly as compared to LA. And if there's one weakness to his game, it's his ability to handle double teams. This part of his game as a primary post player is what has him below Dwight to me. Bynum becomes absolutely confounded when doubled; he's not quick enough to pull any moves out of a double and he's not a good passer out of double teams at all. There won't be any more of Gasol playing beautiful Big-to-Big basketball with Bynum either to set up easy looks for him.

I don't think he'll ever be capable of putting up peak-Yao numbers as Yao had great range, more than two post moves, and could handle a double team. However, provided that there's good spacing with Bynum out on the court, he can pretty much wipe the floor with almost any Center in the league trying to guard him one-on-one. It's just his lack of mobility and lack of ability to do anything out of a double team that deters me.

[Yung D-Will]

Well, it depends on the differences between what LA had around Bynum and what the 6'ers will have around Bynum. It's tough to say how good the spacing will be for Bynum in Philly as compared to LA. And if there's one weakness to his game, it's his ability to handle double teams. This part of his game as a primary post player is what has him below Dwight to me. Bynum becomes absolutely confounded when doubled; he's not quick enough to pull any moves out of a double and he's not a good passer out of double teams at all. There won't be any more of Gasol playing beautiful Big-to-Big basketball with Bynum either to set up easy looks for him.

I don't think he'll ever be capable of putting up peak-Yao numbers as Yao had great range, more than two post moves, and could handle a double team. However, provided that there's good spacing with Bynum out on the court, he can pretty much wipe the floor with almost any Center in the league trying to guard him one-on-one. It's just his lack of mobility and lack of ability to do anything out of a double team that deters me.


The question came up of how important it was for a big man to be able to learn to pass out of a double-team in the post — a skill Lakers center Andrew Bynum has struggled to develop as he’s started to face that extra defender inside. McHale said that’ll come, but smiled when the question was asked, because it’s really the very last step to come in a competent post player’s game.

“First of all, there’s like three prongs in that thing,” he said. “One, you’ve got to get good down in the low post. Two, you’ve got to get good enough to beat your man steady. Three, they double-team you — that’s the third prong, and then you’ve got to pass out, OK?

“You learn pretty quickly, because in the NBA especially, when you start getting double-teamed a lot and when teams have success, they’ll do it every single night. Bynum a year from now will be a very good post passer. He’ll know where to go, he’ll be relaxed, he’ll read it, and pass it out. Then you’ve got murder on your hands because the guy can score down there and he can pass out. And any time two (players) guard one in our league, three have got to guard four. And three cannot guard four in the NBA, the players are too good.”

Mchale made this quote during last season, so do you think he'll improve his passing out of double teams throughout the season?

[KLovin]

Mchale made this quote during last season, so do you think he'll improve his passing out of double teams throughout the season?

He'd have to throughout the season since he'll now be the primary option on this 6'er team. Repetition makes improvement. How he reads his teammates as he familiarizes himself with them will also be important in making efficient passing decisions. I can see quite a few guys on this very athletic 6'er squad benefiting by cutting and getting the feed from Bynum. What I really wish Bynum would do would be to add a decent up-and-under type move to his game a-la McHale since that can be a double team breaker if used effectively.

[Clippersfan86]

Funny that this thread came up because I was thinking about Yao yesterday. I think people really forget just how good the damn guy was. If he was healthy and had better stamina to play more minutes he could have easily been a top 3 center of all time. His 25 ppg season was in 33 minutes a game. Shaq for example played 37-40 minutes in his prime to put up his big scoring numbers.

[Styles p]

Nick young and Richardson are decent , especially richardson having played in orlando is pretty prepared.

But Spencer Hawes is not the person you out next to Bynum.
why not? hes a great high post passer and has a great mid range shot that means he wont be clogging up the paint for bynum. one thing spenc can't do though is guard stretch 4's hes too slow to close on them.

[BlackVVaves]

Mchale made this quote during last season, so do you think he'll improve his passing out of double teams throughout the season?

I'm not sure. Bynum's inability to pass seemed to stem from an unwillingness. Bynum has always struck me, and many others, as a player preoccupied with his stats at the end of the game. He also has always struck me as a player who is confident in his abilities, many times tip toeing arrogance. Him not passing out of double teams isn't just a lack of skill or knowledge in terms of managing teams' defense. It's also him just simply not wanting to pass the ball out double/triple teams. He believes he can score against almost anyone or any number of opponents. Watch some games from last year, how he'd simply just try and out muscle the 4 arms attempting to strip him of the ball.

Bynum's lack of mobility in the post also aides in this. He isn't quick, and takes an awful amount of time to gather and position himself. He's slow to react, and many times I've seen him attempt to pass out double teams, the ball ended up either out of bounds or in the opponent's possession.

So, there's some aspects he can change (such as his willingness to actually pass the ball) and others he probably can't (his quickness). So, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Jax]

He's gonna have more time to visit Miami, if you know what I mean.

[Rubio2Gasol]

why not? hes a great high post passer and has a great mid range shot that means he wont be clogging up the paint for bynum. one thing spenc can't do though is guard stretch 4's hes too slow to close on them.

Ideally what you want is to just clear the lane for Bynum and let him go to work.It's very easy to help off someone like Hawes who hovers at around 12 feet.

Even if he's a great high passer, like Gasol, the off the ball plays aren't really what you want Bynum doing.

Also Bynum needs a ultra mobile defender to make up for his lack of quickness, he can protect the rim and defend the post but you need someone athletic to defend the P&R etc etc.

[Styles p]

Ideally what you want is to just clear the lane for Bynum and let him go to work.It's very easy to help off someone like Hawes who hovers at around 12 feet.

Even if he's a great high passer, like Gasol, the off the ball plays aren't really what you want Bynum doing.

Also Bynum needs a ultra mobile defender to make up for his lack of quickness, he can protect the rim and defend the post but you need someone athletic to defend the P&R etc etc.
hopefully moultrie can turn into that guy.

[longtime lurker]

In all honesty I think he averages a shade under 20 pts, 10 boards and 2 blocks. I don't think his numbers will be all that different from the Lakers considering Philly is a team that likes to spread the ball.

[AK47DR91]

His scoring is going to have to go up a bit. Maybe not 25+ PPG but at least in the low 20's. The Sixers don't have any consistent scorers on the team.

I expect Bynum to get around 18 FGA, which would already be 5 more than he got last season.

[Yung D-Will]

I'm intrested in how Holiday adjusts with the change in pace.

[SpecialQue]

Bynum's gonna rape the east.

FACT.

[brantonli]

I don't follow the Sixers at all, but I do know when you have a great big man down low, you need shooters. Does Philly still have them (meeks and lou williams? I think they've signed to other teams).


Oh the topic of yao vs bynum, Bynum has the edge defensively mainly because he's more athletic, so rebounding and blocking are his advantage. Also, even though I really am not sure about this, I think Bynum might actually be slightly bigger than Yao width-wise (like how Shaq was bigger than Yao in that sense). Yao never had the physical frame to absolutely demolish people on the inside, whilst Bynum might.

So I think in terms of numbers, Bynum might get over Yao on rebounds and blocks, but I don't think he'll reach Yao's points.





f*ck I really miss Yao now from the Rockets, we are so crap without him :cry:

[Styles p]

I don't follow the Sixers at all, but I do know when you have a great big man down low, you need shooters. Does Philly still have them (meeks and lou williams? I think they've signed to other teams).


Oh the topic of yao vs bynum, Bynum has the edge defensively mainly because he's more athletic, so rebounding and blocking are his advantage. Also, even though I really am not sure about this, I think Bynum might actually be slightly bigger than Yao width-wise (like how Shaq was bigger than Yao in that sense). Yao never had the physical frame to absolutely demolish people on the inside, whilst Bynum might.

So I think in terms of numbers, Bynum might get over Yao on rebounds and blocks, but I don't think he'll reach Yao's points.





f*ck I really miss Yao now from the Rockets, we are so crap without him :cry:
replaced them with better shooters n.young,j.richardson,d.wright and jrue can shoot the 3.

[raprap]

Let's hope so, we need another dominant big besides dwight.

[Droid101]

Holy sh*t. Career 20/10 almost with 2 blocks a game.

Edit: and yes, playing injured for almost his entire career
Huh? It's not even 20/10 rounded. It's 19/9.

Keep in mind that Amar'e Stoudemire averaged more rebounds during his and Yao's rookie years (same year).

Amar'e Stoudemire.

Let that sink in.

[GOBB]

Yao was a much better passer. Not sure his peak stats but if we are asking can Bynum do 20+ 10+? Sure. Passing however/assists I don't know. He has his work cut out for him.



In all honesty I think he averages a shade under 20 pts, 10 boards and 2 blocks. I don't think his numbers will be all that different from the Lakers considering Philly is a team that likes to spread the ball.

They spread ball around because there was no go to scorer. And they ranked smog the bottom of the league in post offense. This changes when you bring Bynum who will be the focal point of your offense. To think Sixers will play the same way offensively simply won't happen now that you added a dominant interior scorer who overnight improves your putrid halfcourt offense.

Bynum is also a in a contract year and I can't recall one player not taking advantage statistically. Speaking in terms of good players. Being the Sixers #1 option will automatically increase his ppg. His FG % will take a hit and I believe he will go to the FT line more than he has as a Laker.

[raprap]

Yep, contract year for Bynum, good point. 22 and 11 is my prediction. Turner should also produce with more minutes. Pulling for the sixers to be contenders.:applause:

[StateProperty]

A lot of people saying Philly's style doesn't fit around Bynum. Philly doesn't have a "style" anymore, the players that created it are gone.

Out:
Iggy
Brand
Lou
Meeks
Vucevic
Battie


In:
Bynum
N. Young
D. Wright
Kwame
Ivey
Moultrie

It's a roster overhaul. The only returning player that caters more to a fast break pace is Thad Young, and even he's gone up from 215 to 229 this summer.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Well, statistically, he might be able to. He already topped Yao's rebounding and FG% last season, while shot blocking is about the same, but scoring is the main issue since Yao averaged 25, and was at 27/10 before his injury in late December.

He put up 19/12/2 on 56 FG% last season as a clear second option(though he should have been the 3rd option). It's tough to say if he'll stay healthy, and if he does, will he only improve as a player, or will it show in his individual numbers too? I don't think his numbers last year were a fluke either. Remember in 2009-2010 when Gasol was out for the first 11 games. Bynum played in 9 of those games and averaged 20/12 on 59%. Not the biggest sample size, but it looked like he was doing it fairly easily, it didn't look like some hot streak or anything.

Any time you have a player close to 20 ppg on 55% shooting you have a player with special scoring ability.

We'll have to see how he handles being the primary focusing of opposing defenses. Whether it was with Gasol or Bynum being more featured these last few years in LA, it was a unique situation because Kobe actually received more defensive attention than either all-star big man, which is rarely the case with a perimeter player.

Bynum being a legitimate 7'1" with a wingspan of at least 7'6" alone is a huge advantage. He also has excellent body control for his size and a good post game with several consistent moves and a nice touch 10 feet and in.

The one thing that disappoints me is that he's already clearly lost quickness and overall athleticism due to the knee injuries. I'd love to see Bynum now with the explosiveness he had in '07-'08.

He has the ability to score a lot, he's in a role that will allow him to do that, and while can be both good and bad, he has the mindset.

So 25 ppg is plausible, imo, but I don't think he'll do it next season. And I don't know if he'll ever do it, I have my doubts, I just think it was possible. If he's healthy, though. He should get to the point where he's regularly putting up about 20/10 or better with 2+ bpg while topping 50% shooting if he's Philly's franchise player.

Now how far a team can go with Bynum as their franchise player is another issue. Of course, franchise player to me is different than just best player. You don't necessarily have to be a top 10 or even 15 player to win as the best player if you're on a stacked team. Portland should have won in 2000 if not for an improbable choke job, and the Sonics had everything you could ask for in '93.

But a franchise player to me is when you have a player who you build your team around, you rely on him instead of having 4-5 or even more scoring options who you pretty much divide the scoring between fairly evenly.

As for being as good of a player as Yao was in '07? That I'm more skeptical of. I think Yao just had the potential to be better, and he was showing it in '07, unfortunately, the injury that prevented his '07 season from being even better was a freak injury when he landed on a Clipper player's foot. He did recover from that injury and return healthy in plenty of the time for the playoffs, but Yao and T-Mac missed a golden opportunity to beat Utah as they should have and had an almosrt guaranteed trip to the conference finals thanks to the Warriors upsetting Dallas.

I'd also like to see Bynum put in more effort defensively. He has the ability to have a major impact defensively. Just based on being a massive shot blocker, he can have an impact at that end, but I want to see his defense more like the second half of the '10-'11 season. Bynum's role was only defense, rebounding and finishing at that point and he sparked the Lakers to their best stretch of an up and down season. It's still probably the most effective I've seen him as far as helping his team win.


Mchale made this quote during last season, so do you think he'll improve his passing out of double teams throughout the season?

That quote is really good. It usually is the final step in the maturation of a post player. Passing and handling double teams. It's the biggest reason why Hakeem went up a tier over any level he had played at prior to '92-'93 despite being 29/30 by that point. It's because Rudy T running a 4 out/1 in type of system with everything running through Hakeem in the post, not just to score, but to draw doubles and set up shooters really made him become more unselfish, made that all important leap for a superstar to make his teammates better, and showcased a skill that he hadn't taken advantage of.

Similarly, Shaq became an excellent passer throughout his career, peaking during the 3peat, which was also essential with the triangle revolving around him. He now had to fit his game into the system, instead of just playing how he wanted and working to get the shot he wanted, he was now asked to get good position and make a quick move, and pass out to re-post, or find a shooter when doubled, and also find cutters, which he excelled at. He was actually a good passer by '95, and Orlando's offense was pretty similar to what Hakeem's Rockets did under Rudy T in Houston with the sort of 4 out/1 in with shooters, and no other post player.

There are other examples too, almost every great post player becomes a good to great passer.Many improve significantly too such as Shaq, and especially Hakeem.

Granted, there are some like Moses who dominate without ever becoming a good passer. In fact, he was the clear best player for 2 seasons in '82 and '83, yet he either couldn't or wouldn't pass.

Last season, I also saw Dwight finally make a significant improvement passing and handling double teams to the point where it's not an issue to me if he keeps it up. Despite 2011 being easily his best season, he still often struggled handling double teams, and it was his biggest weakness.

It's definitely something that Bynum can improve, and we have to remember that last season was the first year Bynum really saw double teams. As of now, Bynum's unwillingness or inability to pass is why I wouldn't be crazy about running my offense through him, but the more he gets used to teams gameplanning to stop him, the better he has a chance to become. The potential is there, no reason he can't at least become a decent passer, which is all he needs with his scoring ability, especially if you add in 12 boards per game. Half the battle is Bynum wanting to pass.

While Bynum has played 7 seasons, he hasn't had all of the opportunities he needs to reach his potential. He didn't even really play his first season, he's had so many injuries since then, and he was usually the 3rd option at best, sometimes more like the 4th or 5th option because it was best for the team.

[BlackVVaves]

Well, statistically, he might be able to. He already topped Yao's rebounding and FG% last season, while shot blocking is about the same, but scoring is the main issue since Yao averaged 25, and was at 27/10 before his injury in late December.

He put up 19/12/2 on 56 FG% last season as a clear second option(though he should have been the 3rd option). It's tough to say if he'll stay healthy, and if he does, will he only improve as a player, or will it show in his individual numbers too? I don't think his numbers last year were a fluke either. Remember in 2009-2010 when Gasol was out for the first 11 games. Bynum played in 9 of those games and averaged 20/12 on 59%. Not the biggest sample size, but it looked like he was doing it fairly easily, it didn't look like some hot streak or anything.

Any time you have a player close to 20 ppg on 55% shooting you have a player with special scoring ability.

We'll have to see how he handles being the primary focusing of opposing defenses. Whether it was with Gasol or Bynum being more featured these last few years in LA, it was a unique situation because Kobe actually received more defensive attention than either all-star big man, which is rarely the case with a perimeter player.

Bynum being a legitimate 7'1" with a wingspan of at least 7'6" alone is a huge advantage. He also has excellent body control for his size and a good post game with several consistent moves and a nice touch 10 feet and in.

The one thing that disappoints me is that he's already clearly lost quickness and overall athleticism due to the knee injuries. I'd love to see Bynum now with the explosiveness he had in '07-'08.

He has the ability to score a lot, he's in a role that will allow him to do that, and while can be both good and bad, he has the mindset.

So 25 ppg is plausible, imo, but I don't think he'll do it next season. And I don't know if he'll ever do it, I have my doubts, I just think it was possible. If he's healthy, though. He should get to the point where he's regularly putting up about 20/10 or better with 2+ bpg while topping 50% shooting if he's Philly's franchise player.

Now how far a team can go with Bynum as their franchise player is another issue. Of course, franchise player to me is different than just best player. You don't necessarily have to be a top 10 or even 15 player to win as the best player if you're on a stacked team. Portland should have won in 2000 if not for an improbable choke job, and the Sonics had everything you could ask for in '93.

But a franchise player to me is when you have a player who you build your team around, you rely on him instead of having 4-5 or even more scoring options who you pretty much divide the scoring between fairly evenly.

As for being as good of a player as Yao was in '07? That I'm more skeptical of. I think Yao just had the potential to be better, and he was showing it in '07, unfortunately, the injury that prevented his '07 season from being even better was a freak injury when he landed on a Clipper player's foot. He did recover from that injury and return healthy in plenty of the time for the playoffs, but Yao and T-Mac missed a golden opportunity to beat Utah as they should have and had an almosrt guaranteed trip to the conference finals thanks to the Warriors upsetting Dallas.

I'd also like to see Bynum put in more effort defensively. He has the ability to have a major impact defensively. Just based on being a massive shot blocker, he can have an impact at that end, but I want to see his defense more like the second half of the '10-'11 season. Bynum's role was only defense, rebounding and finishing at that point and he sparked the Lakers to their best stretch of an up and down season. It's still probably the most effective I've seen him as far as helping his team win.



That quote is really good. It usually is the final step in the maturation of a post player. Passing and handling double teams. It's the biggest reason why Hakeem went up a tier over any level he had played at prior to '92-'93 despite being 29/30 by that point. It's because Rudy T running a 4 out/1 in type of system with everything running through Hakeem in the post, not just to score, but to draw doubles and set up shooters really made him become more unselfish, made that all important leap for a superstar to make his teammates better, and showcased a skill that he hadn't taken advantage of.

Similarly, Shaq became an excellent passer throughout his career, peaking during the 3peat, which was also essential with the triangle revolving around him. He now had to fit his game into the system, instead of just playing how he wanted and working to get the shot he wanted, he was now asked to get good position and make a quick move, and pass out to re-post, or find a shooter when doubled, and also find cutters, which he excelled at. He was actually a good passer by '95, and Orlando's offense was pretty similar to what Hakeem's Rockets did under Rudy T in Houston with the sort of 4 out/1 in with shooters, and no other post player.

There are other examples too, almost every great post player becomes a good to great passer.Many improve significantly too such as Shaq, and especially Hakeem.

Granted, there are some like Moses who dominate without ever becoming a good passer. In fact, he was the clear best player for 2 seasons in '82 and '83, yet he either couldn't or wouldn't pass.

Last season, I also saw Dwight finally make a significant improvement passing and handling double teams to the point where it's not an issue to me if he keeps it up. Despite 2011 being easily his best season, he still often struggled handling double teams, and it was his biggest weakness.

It's definitely something that Bynum can improve, and we have to remember that last season was the first year Bynum really saw double teams. As of now, Bynum's unwillingness or inability to pass is why I wouldn't be crazy about running my offense through him, but the more he gets used to teams gameplanning to stop him, the better he has a chance to become. The potential is there, no reason he can't at least become a decent passer, which is all he needs with his scoring ability, especially if you add in 12 boards per game. Half the battle is Bynum wanting to pass.

While Bynum has played 7 seasons, he hasn't had all of the opportunities he needs to reach his potential. He didn't even really play his first season, he's had so many injuries since then, and he was usually the 3rd option at best, sometimes more like the 4th or 5th option because it was best for the team.

Bolder for the truth.

[Yung D-Will]

Well, statistically, he might be able to. He already topped Yao's rebounding and FG% last season, while shot blocking is about the same, but scoring is the main issue since Yao averaged 25, and was at 27/10 before his injury in late December.

He put up 19/12/2 on 56 FG% last season as a clear second option(though he should have been the 3rd option). It's tough to say if he'll stay healthy, and if he does, will he only improve as a player, or will it show in his individual numbers too? I don't think his numbers last year were a fluke either. Remember in 2009-2010 when Gasol was out for the first 11 games. Bynum played in 9 of those games and averaged 20/12 on 59%. Not the biggest sample size, but it looked like he was doing it fairly easily, it didn't look like some hot streak or anything.

Any time you have a player close to 20 ppg on 55% shooting you have a player with special scoring ability.

We'll have to see how he handles being the primary focusing of opposing defenses. Whether it was with Gasol or Bynum being more featured these last few years in LA, it was a unique situation because Kobe actually received more defensive attention than either all-star big man, which is rarely the case with a perimeter player.

Bynum being a legitimate 7'1" with a wingspan of at least 7'6" alone is a huge advantage. He also has excellent body control for his size and a good post game with several consistent moves and a nice touch 10 feet and in.

The one thing that disappoints me is that he's already clearly lost quickness and overall athleticism due to the knee injuries. I'd love to see Bynum now with the explosiveness he had in '07-'08.

He has the ability to score a lot, he's in a role that will allow him to do that, and while can be both good and bad, he has the mindset.

So 25 ppg is plausible, imo, but I don't think he'll do it next season. And I don't know if he'll ever do it, I have my doubts, I just think it was possible. If he's healthy, though. He should get to the point where he's regularly putting up about 20/10 or better with 2+ bpg while topping 50% shooting if he's Philly's franchise player.

Now how far a team can go with Bynum as their franchise player is another issue. Of course, franchise player to me is different than just best player. You don't necessarily have to be a top 10 or even 15 player to win as the best player if you're on a stacked team. Portland should have won in 2000 if not for an improbable choke job, and the Sonics had everything you could ask for in '93.

But a franchise player to me is when you have a player who you build your team around, you rely on him instead of having 4-5 or even more scoring options who you pretty much divide the scoring between fairly evenly.

As for being as good of a player as Yao was in '07? That I'm more skeptical of. I think Yao just had the potential to be better, and he was showing it in '07, unfortunately, the injury that prevented his '07 season from being even better was a freak injury when he landed on a Clipper player's foot. He did recover from that injury and return healthy in plenty of the time for the playoffs, but Yao and T-Mac missed a golden opportunity to beat Utah as they should have and had an almosrt guaranteed trip to the conference finals thanks to the Warriors upsetting Dallas.

I'd also like to see Bynum put in more effort defensively. He has the ability to have a major impact defensively. Just based on being a massive shot blocker, he can have an impact at that end, but I want to see his defense more like the second half of the '10-'11 season. Bynum's role was only defense, rebounding and finishing at that point and he sparked the Lakers to their best stretch of an up and down season. It's still probably the most effective I've seen him as far as helping his team win.



That quote is really good. It usually is the final step in the maturation of a post player. Passing and handling double teams. It's the biggest reason why Hakeem went up a tier over any level he had played at prior to '92-'93 despite being 29/30 by that point. It's because Rudy T running a 4 out/1 in type of system with everything running through Hakeem in the post, not just to score, but to draw doubles and set up shooters really made him become more unselfish, made that all important leap for a superstar to make his teammates better, and showcased a skill that he hadn't taken advantage of.

Similarly, Shaq became an excellent passer throughout his career, peaking during the 3peat, which was also essential with the triangle revolving around him. He now had to fit his game into the system, instead of just playing how he wanted and working to get the shot he wanted, he was now asked to get good position and make a quick move, and pass out to re-post, or find a shooter when doubled, and also find cutters, which he excelled at. He was actually a good passer by '95, and Orlando's offense was pretty similar to what Hakeem's Rockets did under Rudy T in Houston with the sort of 4 out/1 in with shooters, and no other post player.

There are other examples too, almost every great post player becomes a good to great passer.Many improve significantly too such as Shaq, and especially Hakeem.

Granted, there are some like Moses who dominate without ever becoming a good passer. In fact, he was the clear best player for 2 seasons in '82 and '83, yet he either couldn't or wouldn't pass.

Last season, I also saw Dwight finally make a significant improvement passing and handling double teams to the point where it's not an issue to me if he keeps it up. Despite 2011 being easily his best season, he still often struggled handling double teams, and it was his biggest weakness.

It's definitely something that Bynum can improve, and we have to remember that last season was the first year Bynum really saw double teams. As of now, Bynum's unwillingness or inability to pass is why I wouldn't be crazy about running my offense through him, but the more he gets used to teams gameplanning to stop him, the better he has a chance to become. The potential is there, no reason he can't at least become a decent passer, which is all he needs with his scoring ability, especially if you add in 12 boards per game. Half the battle is Bynum wanting to pass.

While Bynum has played 7 seasons, he hasn't had all of the opportunities he needs to reach his potential. He didn't even really play his first season, he's had so many injuries since then, and he was usually the 3rd option at best, sometimes more like the 4th or 5th option because it was best for the team.


:cheers: Agreed, guess I'm interested in seeing how it'll pan out.

[BoutPractice]

My guess is, he probably won't score 25 a game like Yao (then again he's playing in the East...), he's not yet consistent enough. He'll have his share of huge games though, and will average more rebounds per contest.

[ShaqAttack3234]

:cheers: Agreed, guess I'm interested in seeing how it'll pan out.

Yeah, I can't wait to see how Bynum does as well as the Sixers team. They have some question marks, but nobody is expecting them to contend right now anyway. I have no idea how Philly is going to do even assuming they have a healthy Bynum. They do have a very nice amount of capable scorers around him such as Thaddeus, Nick Young, Jrue Holiday and possibly J-Rich. I'm not sold on Dorrell Wright, but he did become a legit shooter in Golden State so they'll have at least 3 guys capable of making 2 threes per game alongside Bynum in Richardson, Nick Young and Wright. Holiday is also a capable 3 point shooter.

He doesn't have any great players around him. Thaddeus is the best scorer, while Nick Young has the best chance to go on a scoring streak and Jrue is probably the most well rounded for his position.

Depth at power forward, point guard and small forward are real question marks to me. Arnett Moultrie is very athletic for a big man, but I'm not betting on him being able to contribute in his rookie season because he seems raw and not strong enough to deal with NBA power forwards. Is Royal Ivey going to back up Jrue at point guard? And is Richardson going to see quite a bit of time at small forward?

Either way, we'll be in for a great season, much better than last season as far as I'm concerned.

[UtahJazzFan88]

It's a roster overhaul. The only returning player that caters more to a fast break pace is Thad Young, and even he's gone up from 215 to 229 this summer.

Bulking up to play PF I see. :applause:

[Nick Young]

If your best player is a half court player, clearly you're going to slow the pace. Iggy was awful in the half court lol.

Anyhow no ones answering the question, which is whether Bynum's production will be similar to a healthy Yao mings.
27/13 60% 2 blocks a game are prime bynum numbers IMO

[WeGetRing2012]

The thing about Bynum that bothered me was how immobile he is. To me that is what separates him from Howard. He is extremely slow which affects all aspects of his game. It makes it impossible to play pick & roll, he can't defend the pick & roll, his defense isn't as good as Howard because he was slow to protect the rim, and you must play in a half court set with him/ no fast break points.

So in Philly they have a lot of players who like to run & Bynum is the complete opposite of that. Philly didn't give up a lot to get him (Andre's contract was huge & he wasn't a necessary player anymore) so I think it was a low risk/ high return trade for them. But if Philly fans are expecting Bynum to emerge as a consistent top C without any other superstar players like Gasol & Kobe to make things easier for him than they are in for a rude awakening.

[Yung D-Will]

Shaqattack, about mobility, I think it was after that 2007-2008 season where he decided to bulk up and put on muscle, and everyone came into next season shocked at how much bigger he was. So after that I was never sure if him being slower was a result of injuries, or just the fact he decided to become bigger so he could dominate inside.

[TheBigVeto]

Hell no.

[MJ(Mean John)]

F.uck yeah.

If Drew is healthy (I know) I wouldnt past him to put up 25/12/2 blocks as a 1st option. Drew is a beast.

[Lebron23]

F.uck yeah.

If Drew is healthy (I know) I wouldnt past him to put up 25/12/2 blocks as a 1st option. Drew is a beast.


24 ppg, 13 rpg, and at least 3.0 bpg.

[Styles p]

Yeah, I can't wait to see how Bynum does as well as the Sixers team. They have some question marks, but nobody is expecting them to contend right now anyway. I have no idea how Philly is going to do even assuming they have a healthy Bynum. They do have a very nice amount of capable scorers around him such as Thaddeus, Nick Young, Jrue Holiday and possibly J-Rich. I'm not sold on Dorrell Wright, but he did become a legit shooter in Golden State so they'll have at least 3 guys capable of making 2 threes per game alongside Bynum in Richardson, Nick Young and Wright. Holiday is also a capable 3 point shooter.

He doesn't have any great players around him. Thaddeus is the best scorer, while Nick Young has the best chance to go on a scoring streak and Jrue is probably the most well rounded for his position.

Depth at power forward, point guard and small forward are real question marks to me. Arnett Moultrie is very athletic for a big man, but I'm not betting on him being able to contribute in his rookie season because he seems raw and not strong enough to deal with NBA power forwards. Is Royal Ivey going to back up Jrue at point guard? And is Richardson going to see quite a bit of time at small forward?

Either way, we'll be in for a great season, much better than last season as far as I'm concerned.

i think turner will slide into the pg spot when jrue is on the bench with ivey coming in to just play defense and hit a corner three a couple minutes a night.

[turnaroundJ]

It's a shame we only caught a glimpse of what prime Yao could've been. I remember back in 06 that Yao was already quite clearly the best player on the Rockets.

Honestly I think he could've averaged about 27-29/10 if he stayed healthy and continued mastering the NBA game. He was nearly, if not already unstoppable.

Andrew is a different beast with a different game though, with higher potential than Yao had. I'd be happy if he reaches his true potential since a lot of bigmen have had injuries that prevented them from doing so recently (Yao, Oden, Bogut).

[Yung D-Will]

It's a shame we only caught a glimpse of what prime Yao could've been. I remember back in 06 that Yao was already quite clearly the best player on the Rockets.

Honestly I think he could've averaged about 27-29/10 if he stayed healthy and continued mastering the NBA game. He was nearly, if not already unstoppable.

Andrew is a different beast with a different game though, with higher potential than Yao had. I'd be happy if he reaches his true potential since a lot of bigmen have had injuries that prevented them from doing so recently (Yao, Oden, Bogut).

I remember hearing that Thabeet was learning from Yao Ming like last offseason. I wonder if that materialized into anything.

[brantonli]

It's a shame we only caught a glimpse of what prime Yao could've been. I remember back in 06 that Yao was already quite clearly the best player on the Rockets.

Honestly I think he could've averaged about 27-29/10 if he stayed healthy and continued mastering the NBA game. He was nearly, if not already unstoppable.

Andrew is a different beast with a different game though, with higher potential than Yao had. I'd be happy if he reaches his true potential since a lot of bigmen have had injuries that prevented them from doing so recently (Yao, Oden, Bogut).


That would only happen if the Rockets seriously got gutted and Yao was the ONLY guy who knew how to shoot the ball. There was a stretch when Yak average something like 30-10 for a week and 28-10 for about two I think. If I I that period was a glimpse of an absolute dominat Yao, but there was no way he could sustain it for a whole season.

[MiseryCityTexas]

It would be funny as hell if this guy ends up becoming the black LucLongly.

[GOBB]

It would be funny as hell if this guy ends up becoming the black LucLongly.

Retarded post based on the possibility of that happening. Wait are you from Texas? That could explain the stupidity here.

[Yung D-Will]

That would only happen if the Rockets seriously got gutted and Yao was the ONLY guy who knew how to shoot the ball. There was a stretch when Yak average something like 30-10 for a week and 28-10 for about two I think. If I I that period was a glimpse of an absolute dominat Yao, but there was no way he could sustain it for a whole season.

Peak Shaq is probally the only big in the modern era who could come close to averging that for a whole season.

[nevetslc88]

Andrew Bynum finds out he's been traded to Philadelphia.

http://vimeo.com/47829002

[Yung D-Will]

Andrew Bynum finds out he's been traded to Philadelphia.

http://vimeo.com/47829002
What movie is that from?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Just realized that Bynum went from a team with the greatest tradition of big men with Mikan, Wilt, Kareem and Shaq to a team that is pretty impressive themselves with Wilt and Moses.

Granted, Bynum himself wasn't truly a part of that Laker tradition. He was injured too often and clearly doesn't have THAT type of potential. I mean 3 of them are among the top 5 centers and top 10 players who have ever played this game, and the other dominated his own era at a top 10 level and was the original dominant center. Bynum did go out with a nice 19/13, 2 bpg, 56 FG% season, though that puts him closer to Vlade territory of just a very good center.

Would be cool to see a 3rd hall of fame center in history if Bynum stays healthy. He'll never be Wilt or Moses, and he's a long way from hall of fame level, but at 24, you never know considering the season he's coming off of. Hey, while he's not a hall of famer, Mutombo was another pretty good big man for the Sixers. Voted DPOY for a record 4th time in Philly, then he averages 14/14 with 3 bpg to help get the Sixers to the finals.


Shaqattack, about mobility, I think it was after that 2007-2008 season where he decided to bulk up and put on muscle, and everyone came into next season shocked at how much bigger he was. So after that I was never sure if him being slower was a result of injuries, or just the fact he decided to become bigger so he could dominate inside.

I haven't noticed a real significant change in weight. He was never thin, even at 17-18, but I do think he's gotten more cut and in better shape. I don't remember him ever making an effort to bulk up, certainly not like Dwight or Oden. I do remember reports that he lost weight, though.


i think turner will slide into the pg spot when jrue is on the bench with ivey coming in to just play defense and hit a corner three a couple minutes a night.

Turner is another question I had. How much time are they going to invest in him considering he's been such a disappointment?


It's a shame we only caught a glimpse of what prime Yao could've been. I remember back in 06 that Yao was already quite clearly the best player on the Rockets.

Yeah, Yao established himself as the Rockets best player in the '06-'07 season. I was very surprised for 2 reasons. I didn't think Yao could be that good, and I didn't expect T-Mac to decline by 27 years old when he should have been around his peak. It's easy to forget, but T-Mac is only about a year older than Yao.

If you remember their first season together, T-Mac was a lot better with Yao as the clear sidekick. '05 was Yao's 3rd year and before he was really looking like a dominant player. He struggled with foul trouble more back then as well which shows that he was still adjusting to the speed and physicality of the NBA game as well as how it's called.

T-Mac on the other hand played about as well as he ever has outside of '03. While he didn't get the hype, I thought he had an MVP-caliber season, especially when Van Gundy told him to assert himself after the first month when he had been trying to "fit in".

But not only had T-Mac lost a step by '07, he was deferring to Yao to the point that he was a clear sidekick. But I'm not convinced he was fully healthy because when Yao went down, T-Mac carried Houston averaging 28/5/6 on 45% shooting to lead them to a 20-10 record. A pretty big deal was actually made out of Yao becoming the man on this team actually. I remember T-Mac being interviewed by Inside The NBA, and Barkley(who had been calling for T-Mac to be the 1st option) asked T-Mac if he knew he was better than Yao once T-Mac got hot when Yao went down.

'07 was the year Houston really gave away. They had better teams entering '08 and '09, but those weren't their fault. Yao returned healthy in plenty of time for the playoffs, and while T-Mac was not the player he was from '01-'05, he was relatively close, and it's the closest he was while he played with Yao. Both were playing at superstar levels, and the team was 30-11 when both played. Unfortunately they gave away a 7 game series to Utah, a series that neither Yao or T-Mac played up to their standards in. They had the Warriors waiting in the next round too, that would have been an easy path to the WCF thanks to the Mavs being upset.


Honestly I think he could've averaged about 27-29/10 if he stayed healthy and continued mastering the NBA game. He was nearly, if not already unstoppable.

29 ppg is getting carried away. There's a chance his prime could have been 25 ppg give or take a bit depending on the year. I do believe he could have peaked at 26-27 ppg. Though I know he was capable of 25 ppg, maybe 26-27, he may have not averaged 25 every season in his prime. In '08, he started the season healthy and played all of Houston's 55 games before the stress fracture, but averaged 22/11. Granted, he was in a different situation. Jeff Van Gundy, who is not exactly an offensive genius, had an offense that revolved around going into Yao much more. But Rick Adelman experimented with Yao in the high post more much like he had his big man in the high post a lot in Sacramento, and Yao had to learn a difficult system.


Andrew is a different beast with a different game though, with higher potential than Yao had. I'd be happy if he reaches his true potential since a lot of bigmen have had injuries that prevented them from doing so recently (Yao, Oden, Bogut).

I think Yao had more potential than Bynum to be honest.


Peak Shaq is probally the only big in the modern era who could come close to averging that for a whole season.

What do you mean modern era? Yao in his short peak was a 25/9 player and I think he would've averaged 26/10 if he was healthy that year, 29 ppg is definitely a stretch, though, imo.

I don't think it's always a matter of a player being capable, but it's rare that players play for numbers. The truly elite players certainly don't max out. They can score at will, but it depends on what the team needs. Especially with title contenders when you have to try to establish some balance. You have to play within your team's offense, and of course, you'll get doubled teamed.

In the 2000s and 2010s, only 2 players have actually averaged 27/10. Shaq did it 4 times from '00-'03, and Webber actually did it in 2001. Several others came pretty close, although even less of them were actually centers and primarily inside players.


That would only happen if the Rockets seriously got gutted and Yao was the ONLY guy who knew how to shoot the ball. There was a stretch when Yak average something like 30-10 for a week and 28-10 for about two I think. If I I that period was a glimpse of an absolute dominat Yao, but there was no way he could sustain it for a whole season.

Yeah, his last 6 games before the injury were without T-Mac and he averaged 31.2 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 2.2 apg, 3.3 bpg and 50.7 FG%.

As I've mentioned, Yao's numbers of roughly 27/10 before his injury were over an impressive 26 games.

Most importantly, watching Yao early in that season, I saw no reason to believe he couldn't continue to do what he was doing. He had a jump hook and turnaround jumper you couldn't block in addition to a phenomenal shooting touch. He also had nice footwork and strength he was learning how to use at 7'6". But he was a guy with a dominant inside player who you couldn't foul because he shot free throws so well, and he was getting to the line 8.6 times per game because of his inside game.

Granted, Yao's early season numbers may have been influenced by T-Mac's struggles at 19/5/6 on 42% while missing 6 of the 26 games. Especially since the Rockets those first 3 years of the T-Mac/Yao duo were much like the Shaq/Kobe Lakers in that they didn't really have a 3rd scorer, so they leaned on Yao heavily with T-Mac out or struggling.

I don't see 27/10 on the Adelman Rocket teams because of the system and the additional talent. Probably not even 25 ppg for that matter.

Part of the reason he averaged 25 ppg in '07 was because Van Gundy had the offense really revolve around Yao. That was a big difference between '07 and '08. Van Gundy was hardly an offensive genius, while Adelman is an excellent offensive coach, and one of the best coaches of all-time, imo.

[East_Stone_Ya]

hell no he won't be putting up no peak Yao numbers at least not in his first season

[gabeh1018]

I know this was 7 or 8 years ago now, but I am an alumni from St. Joe's where Bynum played his highschool basketball. After graduating I went back to see him play a game when he was a junior. First, he towered above every other player on the court and secondly, his game was absolutely terrible and I expected more. That was then, this is now, but it's interesting now hearing people say he could possibly be a top 10 player in the NBA. Makes me question that talent in our league, kidding of course ;)

but having said that, in Philly, I definitely see him being their go to player. He has obviously had his moments in the NBA where you are like wow, he really is something. But still the man has a lot of growing up to do and I question his work ethic and motivation a lot.

I can see him averaging a double double.

[GOBB]

Turner is another question I had. How much time are they going to invest in him considering he's been such a disappointment?

I think this season is where they really evaluate Evan Turners progression. Getting rid of Iggy was huge as the ball will now be in Jrue and Evans hands more. And the makeup of the roster is more shooting orientated than it ever has. So with no backup PG, Evan will handle more ball handling duties to make plays. And his lack of range becomes that less important. So it'll be interesting to see because Iggy and Turner was a bit redundant. One had to go. Evan is a much better ball handler than Iggy is which allows him to get to the rim better than Iggy ever could. So this season will be huge for Evan Turner because he needs to really emerge. Time to grow as a player because there are no excuses now.

Otherwise he could find himself in a package deal to bring in a proven player next offseason. Atleast I hope thats the Sixers thinking. They dealt Iggy so anything is possible especially with a new owner who wants the front office to be more risk takers.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Turner reminds me of Roy, I think he'll have a great year.

[GOBB]

Turner reminds me of Roy, I think he'll have a great year.

Roy with bum knees? Agreed. Roy most fans grew to love? Now i laugh...

:roll:

[Yung D-Will]

Turner reminds me of Roy, I think he'll have a great year.
:biggums:

[Bigsmoke]

35 games a year?

sure why not?

[Yung D-Will]

I haven't noticed a real significant change in weight. He was never thin, even at 17-18, but I do think he's gotten more cut and in better shape. I don't remember him ever making an effort to bulk up, certainly not like Dwight or Oden. I do remember reports that he lost weight, though.



http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0809/nba_g_bynum11_576.jpg

I thought he got much bigger, but looking at is side by side I'm not completley sure.