#2 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[Deuce Bigalow]

Michael Jordan was voted the #1 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.

30.1 PPG | 6.2 RPG | 5.3 APG

6

[DTreats]

Kobe.Bean.Bryant

[KingBeasley08]

Wilt Chamberlain

[TylerOO]

King James

[DTreats]

Wilt Chamberlain
No troll votes, kid.

[Horatio33]

William Felton Russell.

[KG215]

Bill Russell

[Colbertnation64]

Wilt Chamberlain

[imnew09]

Magic

[LongLiveTheKing]

Magic Johnson

[L.Kizzle]

Russell.

[Deuce Bigalow]

No troll votes, kid.
:roll:

[pauk]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[KG215]

No troll votes, kid.

Says the moron who voted for Kobe.

[raid09]

Russell.

[red1]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar
yup

[DTreats]

Says the moron who voted for Kobe.
kobe > wilt

[Vertical-24]

Personally I want to say Magic...but I think maybe it should go to KAJ.

[TheeBeast]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[1987_Lakers]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

Bill Russell is right there with him though.

[imdaman99]

i dont know, i dont make these decisions because i havent watched the best players of the past play. stats arent always telling, so i have to go with jlauber's tall tales and vote for wilt.

[Mr Know It All]

Wilt Chamberlain.

[fpliii]

I have either Jordan/Magic 2/3 in some order after Russell at 1 (though all three are close), so I guess I'm voting Russ again :banana:

[KingBeasley08]

No troll votes, kid.
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg604/myzlplix/Tyrrian_Slap.gif

[Rubio2Gasol]

Hakeem.

[swi7ch]

LBJ when it's al said and done.

[Suckafree]

Lew Alcindor

[BlackVVaves]

Bill Russell.

[Doctor K]

is this talking now or in 50 years?

[riseagainst]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

this, kareem abdul motherf*cking JABBAR.

[Chief Keef]

Kobe bryant

[SpecialQue]

My coffee's black, so I got go with Kareem.

[Sarcastic]

Wilt Chamberlain.

[StateOfMind12]

Bill Russell.

[Gabuyaux]

Magic

[Ne 1]

Kareem.

[TheeBeast]

Bill Russell.

Go check out Bill's averages and you'll see why this is a dumb vote. The only thing he has under his belt is rebounding and 10 rings.

[b1imtf]

Kareem

[fpliii]

Go check out Bill's averages and you'll see why this is a dumb vote. The only thing he has under his belt is rebounding and 10 rings.

what about being the anchor for the 8 best defensive teams in league history (58, 64, 57, 65, 61, 60, 59, 62 BOS)?

[FreezingTsmoove]

The guy who taught uncle jesse how to shoot. Kaj

[Deuce Bigalow]

My coffee's black, so I got go with Kareem.
:lol :confusedshrug:

[oolalaa]

It's pretty close between Bill Russell and Magic Johnson, but Russell's vastly superior defensive value outweighs Magic's playmaking. A lot of people don't appreciate the magnitude of 11 rings. ELEVEN FRICKIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! For 8 straight seasons the Boston Celtics, anchored by Russell, didn't lose a single playoff series. Eight whole years without losing in the post season. Not only was Russell the greatest defense/rebounding/shot blocking combo in NBA history (And it's not remotely close), he was the ultimate 'winner'. The Celtics were one of the greatest dynasties in professional sports history BECAUSE of Russell, NOT the other way around.

I vote for Bill Russell.


Incidentally, Chamberlain and Kareem have NO business what so ever at being ranked this high. We can start talking about, and ranking them once Russell and Magic are out of the way.

[DatAsh]

Bill Russell

[PyrrhusX]

The GOAT laker, Kareem

[Poochymama]

Bill Russell

[Kews1]

Kareem

[FKAri]

Wilt

[Faptastrophe]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

[AK47DR91]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
KAJ gets my vote too.

[DaHeezy]

Magic Johnson

[Gifted Mind]

Seems to be a 4 way race between Russell, Wilt, Kareem, and Magic.

[Fudge]

KAJ

[Zedja]

KAJ

[oolalaa]

How anyone can rank Kareem over the guy who almost single handily saved his legacy (i.e Magic Johnson) i'll never fully understand. In 10 seasons, and in the NBA's weakest ever decade (Post 50s), Kareem only made it to 2 NBA Finals, winning just 1 championship, got bounced from the 1st round twice, and missed the playoffs entirely for two straight seasons.

[Heilige]

It's pretty close between Bill Russell and Magic Johnson, but Russell's vastly superior defensive value outweighs Magic's playmaking. A lot of people don't appreciate the magnitude of 11 rings. ELEVEN FRICKIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! For 8 straight seasons the Boston Celtics, anchored by Russell, didn't lose a single playoff series. Eight whole years without losing in the post season. Not only was Russell the greatest defense/rebounding/shot blocking combo in NBA history (And it's not remotely close), he was the ultimate 'winner'. The Celtics were great BECAUSE of Russell, NOT the other way around.

I vote for Bill Russell.


Incidentally, Chamberlain and Kareem have NO business what so ever at being ranked this high. We can start talking about, and ranking them once Russell and Magic are out of the way.


This, good stuff. My vote is for Russell as well.

Based on what you said though, why do you have Jordan over Russell?

[YAWN]

Kareem... 6 rings, 2 finals mvps, 6 mvps, 19x all star, 15x all nba, 11x all d

[josh99]

Wilt

[jongib369]

http://betaamentoring.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/wilt-chamberlain.jpeg

[KyrieTheFuture]

Magic Johnson

[SuperPippen]

Kareem or Scal.

I can't decide between the two.

[oolalaa]

This, good stuff. My vote is for Russell as well.

Based on what you said though, why do you have Jordan over Russell?

Well, simply put, not every one of Russell's eleven rings were "equal" (For lack of a better word). His 11 titles are bookended by 3 or 4 that cannot be compared to any of MJs, in terms of his value to that championship winning team. Two of his rings came in the relatively weak late 50s, with no Wilt or Oscar or West to contend with (He was also EXTREMELY limited offensively at that point). And two more came at the very end of his career, with him once again taking a major back seat in terms of scoring. I think he was still marginally the Cs best player in '68, but for their '69 title he was running on fumes, and Hondo took over.

Also, the fact that Russell's Celtics, for 8 of their titles, only had to win 2 playoff series to be champions. This cannot be completely ignored.

[JuicyJay78]

Kareem

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kareem, Magic, and Russell all worthy. It's hard to choose but I'll go with Magic Johnson.
Don't know why people are mentioning Wilt. He isn't in the same class as the other 3 in the Playoffs and in terms of winning.

[Whoah10115]

Magic Johnson.

[The Bird]

Wilt Chamberlain

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://i.imgur.com/tS3Hq.jpg
I had to get in there :cheers:

[bfrombleacher]

Bill Russell

[Freedom Kid7]

Lew Alcindor
This (Kareem's name before he changed it)

[oolalaa]

This (Kareem's name before he changed it)

Thanks for the knowledge :applause:

[Noof]

Kareem

[raprap]

I vote for Kareem

[Pushxx]

Bill Russell.

[ganja0710]

kareem for #2. magic is close though.

[B-hoop]

Bill Russel.

[Boston C's]

Kareem

[Deuce Bigalow]

I want to hear people's reasoning why Kareem over Magic?
(not saying that Kareem doesn't deserve it, just want to hear why)

[TheBigVeto]

If Jordan is 1st then Kareem or Russell is 2nd.

LOL @ those voting Kobe or Wilt or Magic.

[Freedom Kid7]

I want to hear people's reasoning why Kareem over Magic?
(not saying that Kareem doesn't deserve it, just want to hear why)
Longevity helps a lot here. That, and turning a small market franchise into contenders immediatly at such inexperience is pretty impressive (talking about Milwaukee of course).

I think the only real thing I can critique Kareem for is basically doing nothing of note in the playoffs in his prime until Magic came, and that he always had some great PG when he won (Oscar and Magic). If I'd give a trump card though, it'd have to be longevity.

[alenleomessi]

bird

[Hands of Iron]

bird

:D

[hangintheair]

I vote for Kareem

[Asukal]

http://www.personality-abc.com/system-files/bill-russell-1302525635.jpeg

[TheBigVeto]

I want to hear people's reasoning why Kareem over Magic?
(not saying that Kareem doesn't deserve it, just want to hear why)

Kareem is a much better player than Magic and was the main reason of the Lakers' success in the 80s. Magic was there riding his coattails. Much like Kobe rode Shaq's. Yet Magic and Kobe got all the (undeserved) credits.

They are overrated.

[scandisk_]

He'll probably be in the top 3 of any categories - Rings, MVPs, Records, Accolades, Intangibles, etc.

http://classickicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/nba_1950s_star_kareem_abdul_jabbar_wallpaper-390185-1280823166.jpeg

[TheAnchorman]

Kareem.

[Horde of Temujin]

Magic

[eurobum]

kareem. has only 2 of 6 FMVPS. 66% of their championships. he wasnn't the best man on his team.

russell. (what has already been said)

magic. the one thing that always got me with him, his one thing: his teams were always LOADED .. always. never had to go through struggle.

i think it should be between magic or bird.

:)

(serious)

[Chamberlain]

Kareem

[Whoah10115]

The answer is not Kareem, but I suppose he's gonna be 2nd.



I hate the trend of Kareem, because he's absolutely not as good as Magic.

[PHILA]

He'll probably be in the top 3 of any categories - Rings, MVPs, Records, Accolades, Intangibles, etc.
KAJ top 3 in intangibles?

[KG215]

Kareem is a much better player than Magic and was the main reason of the Lakers' success in the 80s. Magic was there riding his coattails. Much like Kobe rode Shaq's. Yet Magic and Kobe got all the (undeserved) credits.

They are overrated.

Magic was not riding Kareem's coattails in 1987 and 1988. That was Magic, at his peak, and the team was his. I'd have to go back and re-read a few things but, if I recall correctly, Riley more-or-less told Magic it was "his time" prior to either the '84-'85 or '85-'86 season; meaning it was his team.

If anything, two of their five championship seasons together the team was Magic's, two years it was Kareem's, and once it was kind of equal. Magic was clearly the lead-dog in '87 and '88. I still maintain Kareem was deserving of the 1980 Finals MVP but that's a different argument for another time. However, Magic did win the 1982 Finals MVP. I haven't seen that particular series but he averaged 16-11-8-2.5 on .533/.846 shooting to Kareem's 18-8-4-1-3 on .531/.537 shooting. Magic damn near averaged a triple double in the '82 playoffs: 17.4 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 9.3 apg.

I could be way off-base here, but the more I read and study the 80s Lakers, the more an dmore I realize Magic and Kareem's situation wasn't much like Kobe and Shaq's. For one, Kobe and Shaq weren't together as long, and it was always Shaq's team. Kobe made it pretty close by 2002-2003, but it was still Shaq's team. From his first year in the league, though, Magic started gaining ground on Kareem for "lead-dog" status.

[swag2011]

Kareem

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

How people choose Kareem over Wilt is baffling. Kareem is basically a middle class man's Wilt Chamberlain. Not quite the scorer Wilt was. Not quite the rebounder Wilt was. Not quite the defensive presence Wilt was. Not the athlete Wilt was.

[coin24]

Kareem for #2:cheers:


Wilt is lucky to be in the top10 imo...
Jordan
KAJ
Russell
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wilt

Yes Kobe over shaq:lol

[Notitlesince73]

KAJ

[coin24]

How people choose Kareem over Wilt is baffling. Kareem is basically a middle class man's Wilt Chamberlain. Not quite the scorer Wilt was. Not quite the rebounder Wilt was. Not quite the defensive presence Wilt was.


Wilt = overrated as fu*k..

Stats arent everything, the guy was a giant playing against peasants and still could only win 2 titles...

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Kareem for #2:cheers:


Wilt is lucky to be in the top10 imo...
Jordan
KAJ
Russell
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wilt

Yes Kobe over shaq:lol

Kobe Bryant in the top 10 best players of all time is a bigger joke than Michael Jordan at #1.

[coin24]

Kobe Bryant in the top 10 best players of all time is a bigger joke than Michael Jordan at #1.


Whats your top 10 then?:confusedshrug:

If you have Wilt at #1 kill yourself.

[fsvr54]

Larry Bird

[eurobum]

magic

[KOBE143]

Kobe Bean Bryant

The Greatest Lakers of all time

Those who doesnt vote him in the top 5 are trolls..

[fsvr54]

Kobe Bean Bryant

The Greatest Lakers of all time

Those who doesnt vote him in the top 5 are trolls..

No

[Notitlesince73]

Kobe Bean Bryant

The Greatest Lakers of all time

Those who doesnt vote him in the top 5 are trolls..
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2496/whatever2jpg.png

It's obviously an opinion, but think MJ, KAJ, Magic, Wilt, Russell's career > Kobe's career is trolling?

[WockaVodka]

Kobe Bean Bryant

The Greatest Lakers of all time

Those who doesnt vote him in the top 5 are trolls..
:oldlol:

My vote is for Magic Johnson

[jongib369]

Wilt = overrated as fu*k..

Stats arent everything, the guy was a giant playing against peasants and still could only win 2 titles...
You aren't that young, unless you're trolling you shouldn't be silly enough to seriously say he faced "peasants"...

[jongib369]

How people choose Kareem over Wilt is baffling. Kareem is basically a middle class man's Wilt Chamberlain. Not quite the scorer Wilt was. Not quite the rebounder Wilt was. Not quite the defensive presence Wilt was. Not the athlete Wilt was.
I'm one of the few that will 100% agree with you on that... PM your top 10

[KOBE143]

No
Proof
Magic "Kobe is the greatest lakers of all time"
Charles Barkley "Kobe is definitely a top 5"

Why people here still putting KAJ, Magic and Wilt over him is beyond me.. All of them were Lakers legend.. I'm just being unbiased here, this was not my words its from Magic and Chuck.. I'm believe them not some idiot here..

[coin24]

You aren't that young, unless you're trolling you shouldn't be silly enough to seriously say he faced "peasants"...

To be honest, I really do think Wilt is overrated by people on here, it makes it even worse they never saw the guy play..
From all the footage ive seen he towered over everybody, yet when challenged he choked/couldnt get it done... 2 titles, really?

Anyone that has Wilt>Russell is an idiot imo. Stat nerds:facepalm

[Sarcastic]

To be honest, I really do think Wilt is overrated by people on here, it makes it even worse they never saw the guy play..
From all the footage ive seen he towered over everybody, yet when challenged he choked/couldnt get it done... 2 titles, really?

Anyone that has Wilt>Russell is an idiot imo. Stat nerds:facepalm


Pretty hypocritical of you to say that, since you likely never saw him play either.

[EnoughSaid]

http://www.nndb.com/people/663/000022597/kareem-med.jpg

[Whoah10115]

Kareem has the list of accomplishments. No one is using context. Growing up, I liked Kareem the most of the 3...because I knew him the best. But he was always widely regarded as #3 on that list (and that's a fact).



But people are accumulating accomplishments. That means a lot, but no one is using context.

[coin24]

Pretty hypocritical of you to say that, since you likely never saw him play either.


How so?:confusedshrug:

He did tower over everybody, had crazy stats etc, won 2 titles... What part of that is not factual??

[bluechox2]

russell

[BlackVVaves]

Proof
Magic "Kobe is the greatest lakers of all time"
Charles Barkley "Kobe is definitely a top 5"

Why people here still putting KAJ, Magic and Wilt over him is beyond me.. All of them were Lakers legend.. I'm just being unbiased here, this was not my words its from Magic and Chuck.. I'm believe them not some idiot here..

What's the purpose of members of the media who make their post career salaries by working for the NBA and NBA affiliates?

[Sarcastic]

How so?:confusedshrug:

He did tower over everybody, had crazy stats etc, won 2 titles... What part of that is not factual??


Because towering over people leads to being a good basketball player? How come Mark Eaton and Gheorghe Muresan didn't score 50 a game?

[BrickingStar]

Kareem and does the OP have a limit to vote count. Like whoever gets 20 votes first wins because this shit is going to take forever.

[coin24]

Because towering over people leads to being a good basketball player? How come Mark Eaton and Gheorghe Muresan didn't score 50 a game?


Being a foot taller than everyone else does help yes. If Wilt was so great he would have won more imo. Scoring 50 against scrubs makes you a great bball player??

Seeing as I have Wilt in my Top10 obviously i dont think hes shit, but guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan were better..

[Celtic_Pride]

Bill Russell

11 rings in 13 years as the man (and 2 while being the coach)

I don't think anyone can have a better career!

[Sarcastic]

Being a foot taller than everyone else does help yes. If Wilt was so great he would have won more imo. Scoring 50 against scrubs makes you a great bball player??

Seeing as I have Wilt in my Top10 obviously i dont think hes shit, but guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan were better..

But he wasn't a foot taller than everyone else. That's a pure myth.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

close call between wilt kaj and Bill. I'll go with kaj

[Sarcastic]

coin24, do you diminish Jim Brown's career as a RB, since he went up against defenses that were half the size they are today?

[jlauber]

Being a foot taller than everyone else does help yes. If Wilt was so great he would have won more imo. Scoring 50 against scrubs makes you a great bball player??

Seeing as I have Wilt in my Top10 obviously i dont think hes shit, but guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan were better..

Aside from vitually everything you just said, answer me this...

How come MJ played on NINE teams that did not win a title.
Bird at 10.
Duncan at 11.
West and Oscar at 12.
Baylor never even won one in his 13 seasons.
Kareem failed to win a title in 14 seasons.
Shaq must have flopped in 15 seasons.
And poor Hakeem was the biggest loser of them all, "losing" 16 times in his 18 season career.

LOSERS...ALL of them...

[KOBE143]

What's the purpose of members of the media who make their post career salaries by working for the NBA and NBA affiliates?
I believe Chuck and Magic more.. They played the game and have experience, not some media who believes in PER and some bullshit make up stats..

[coin24]

coin24, do you diminish Jim Brown's career as a RB, since he went up against defenses that were half the size they are today?


I dont watch NFL. Im not American btw, im not sure that many other countries follow NFL that closely...

How am I diminishing Wilts career? I have him top 10 of ALL TIME. Dont pull a Jlauber on us here and demand he be at #1 on everyones list:oldlol:

[coin24]

Aside from vitually everything you just said, answer me this...

How come MJ played on NINE teams that did not win a title.
Bird at 10.
Duncan at 11.
West and Oscar at 12.
Baylor never even won one in his 13 seasons.
Kareem failed to win a title in 14 seasons.
Shaq must have flopped in 15 seasons.
And poor Hakeem was the biggest loser of them all, "losing" 16 times in his 18 season career.

LOSERS...ALL of them...


Kobe > Wilt...:oldlol:

[KOBE143]

Kobe > Wilt...:oldlol:
this and its not even close

jlauber u mad? :lol

[jlauber]

this and its not even close

jlauber u mad? :lol

Yep. I am going to lose sleep over this, and will probably have to start therapy soon...

[raptorfan_dr07]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

[IGotACoolStory]

Magic

[KOBE143]

Yep. I am going to lose sleep over this, and will probably have to start therapy soon...
Hope you're not serious.. Dont make me worried about you old fella.. :lol :lol

[BlackVVaves]

I believe Chuck and Magic more.. They played the game and have experience, not some media who believes in PER and some bullshit make up stats..

You still didn't answer the question.

[lilblingy]

Kareem abdul jabbar

[Freedom Kid7]

Yep. I am going to lose sleep over this, and will probably have to start therapy soon...
:lol

[fpliii]

"At the age of 14, I discovered the secret: 'pick the one thing you do best and work at it.' So while every other kid was trying to be the next Iceman, I was hitting the boards. Because I figure, if you ain't got the ball, you can't shoot the ball" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0zSdN5ceXU)

[fos]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GSBGd23gPws/S3eFlL_DfhI/AAAAAAAAAZY/eZU2gug-TgU/S692/6a00d4141cd5f8685e0110180636fd860f-500pi.jpg

The all-around game of Larry Legend.

[scandisk_]

KAJ top 3 in intangibles?

Based on Leadership, Competitiveness & Maturity yeah easily.

[G-train]

Larry Bird

[KOBE143]

You still didn't answer the question.
Whats their purpose?

Dunno.. Im not close with them tho.. Maybe you are? :oldlol:

[dyna]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[Sarcastic]

Why do Laker fans bash Wilt? Do some of you not realize that Wilt was a Laker, and was the anchor of perhaps the greatest Laker team of all time?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why do Laker fans bash Wilt? Do some of you not realize that Wilt was a Laker, and was the anchor of perhaps the greatest Laker team of all time?
They don't really bash Wilt. It's true that he towered over everybody. And won only 2 Championships. They feel like other player have had better careers, as do I. They also feel like he didn't win enough, and that is true, 2 rings, lost 4/6 finals, 5 HCA series losses, did not win in 69 and 70 when he had arguably the best player in the league (West).

[coin24]

They don't really bash Wilt. It's true that he towered over everybody. And won only 2 Championships. They feel like other player have had better careers, as do I. They also feel like he didn't win enough, and that is true, 2 rings, lost 4/6 finals, 5 HCA series losses, did not win in 69 and 70 when he had arguably the best player in the league (West).

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[G-train]

They don't really bash Wilt. It's true that he towered over everybody. And won only 2 Championships. They feel like other player have had better careers, as do I. They also feel like he didn't win enough, and that is true, 2 rings, lost 4/6 finals, 5 HCA series losses, did not win in 69 and 70 when he had arguably the best player in the league (West).

It's false that he towered over everybody.
And there was a lot of competition in the league at the time for team success.

Even if he did tower over everyone, why don't we have a Shawn Bradley thread every day about his unfulfilled potential as a winner? Cos he averaged 50 a game yet ...... oh wait.

[Legends66NBA7]

Why do Laker fans bash Wilt? Do some of you not realize that Wilt was a Laker, and was the anchor of perhaps the greatest Laker team of all time?

I'm pretty sure majority of Lakers fans don't and actually praise him for his contributions to the Lakers, especially on the 72 Lakers. The ones who have been doing so (or at least in this thread) are Kobe fans/fanboys/gimmicks who wouldn't even be repping the Lakers if Kobe wasn't on the team.

[Deuce Bigalow]

#2 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops Voting

40- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
17- Bill Russell
11- Magic Johnson
10- Wilt Chamberlain
4- Larry Bird
3- Kobe Bryant
1- Lebron James
1- Hakeem Olajuwon

[thelucifer69]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[BlueandGold]

I'll go Kareem

[coin24]

:applause: :applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

Surprised that Shaq didn't even get a vote with some of the other votes that did come up.

[Sarcastic]

They don't really bash Wilt. It's true that he towered over everybody. And won only 2 Championships. They feel like other player have had better careers, as do I. They also feel like he didn't win enough, and that is true, 2 rings, lost 4/6 finals, 5 HCA series losses, did not win in 69 and 70 when he had arguably the best player in the league (West).

It's not as if he didn't play against perhaps the greatest dynasty in US sports history or anything like that. He had inferior teammates to the Celtics, yet he gets the blame. Kind of not fair, in my opinion.

He's the greatest rebounder of all time. That has to be worth something.

[oamjad13]

Kareem ABdul Jabbar

[no pun intended]

wilt

[BrickingStar]

#2 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops Voting

40- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
17- Bill Russell
11- Magic Johnson
10- Wilt Chamberlain
4- Larry Bird
3- Kobe Bryant
1- Lebron James
1- Hakeem Olajuwon

Are you going to tally up the far? You'll be dead by the time we reach 100 lower the tally limit dumbass and let's try to get it done this year :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

Are you going to tally up the far? You'll be dead by the time we reach 100 lower the tally limit dumbass and let's try to get it done this year :facepalm
lol calm down dude. Let the posters of ISH get their votes in. I'll post #3 in a couple minutes.

[jlauber]

So Kareem finished #2...

Interesting. Where should Moses be ranked then?


How great was Moses Malone? The 6-10 center faced the 7-2 Kareem in 40 total games from the 76-77 season, thru Kareem's last season in 88-89.

Some here claim that Kareem's peak was in that 76-77 season, although I strongly believe that the most dominant Kareem played in the early 70's. His statistical peak came in the 70-71, 71-72, and 72-73 seasons.

Kareem was 29 in the 76-77 season, while Moses was 21. However, Moses jumped right to the ABA at age 19, so he was already in his third professional season by the time the two first met.

Now, granted, the two probably did not exclusively defend each other in every game, nor were they on the floor at the same time in portions of those games.

There are several interesting aspects to this "rivalry." I am only posting the known stats that I could find, and perhaps there are some here who can provide even more info. I did come up with every one of their scoring H2H's, all 40 of them. However, I could only find their FG%'s and rebounding numbers in their last 16 games.

And overall, Kareem team's went 21-19 against Moses, which was surprising, since Kareem played with much more talented teams in nearly all of their 13 seasons in the league together. In facr, Moses only played on ONE team that ever had a better record than Kareem, in those 13 seasons.

However, while Kareem's teams enjoyed 20-13 margin in their regular season H2H's, Moses' team went 6-1 against Kareem's in the post-season. BTW, Kareem's team's were often leveled in the post-season, despite having better regular season records. Included in those post-season H2H's, was the 80-81 Rockets, at 40-42, beating Kareem's 54-28 (Magic was injured and missed 37 games that season), 2-1 in the first round of the playoffs. And, of course, Moses' 82-83 Sixers, which went 65-17 swept Kareem's 58-24 Lakers, 4-0. That was the ONLY season in which Moses had a more talented roster, and they were clearly better, going a combined 6-0 against Kareem's team in the overall season. However, Kareem did miss one of their regular season H2H's that year, so Moses only went 5-0 against him that year.

How about their personal battles? While a much more prime Kareem, at age 29, outscored the 21 year old Moses in their first year H2H's, it was not a dramatic difference. Kareem outscored him in three of their four games, but his high game was only 29 points. And, by their fourth game that season, Moses outscored Kareem, 26-23.

Another interesting aspect was that while both players started declining somewhat after the 84-85 season, Moses' decline was sharper. Still. Moses generally outplayed Kareem even after that. But, Moses was not the dominant player that he was from the 78-79 season thru the 84-85 season.

And while Kareem won the MVP award in the 79-80 season, Moses was probably already the better player. In the 78-79 season, a 23 year old Moses exploded, and averaged 24.8 ppg, on .540 shooting, with an astonishing 17.6 rpg average (winning the rebounding title by nearly 5 per game.) Kareem averaged 23.8 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 5.4 apg, and shot .577. In Kareem's 79-80 MVP season, Abdul-Jabbar averaged 24.8 ppg, on a sensational .604 shooting, but was on a severe decline in the rebounding department, only getting 10.8 rpg. Meanwhile, Moses was at 25.8 ppg, .502 shooting, and grabbing 14.5 rpg. BUT, H2H in that Kareem MVP season, Moses DRAMATICALLY outscored Kareem, by an average margin of 30 ppg to 20 ppg. And, I have no doubt that he probably dominated Kareem on the glass, as well.

From that 79-80 season, on, Moses was CLEARLY the better player. While Kareem's numbers continued to decline, Moses jusr DOMINATED the league. From the 80-81 season thru the 84-85 season, Moses was THE best player in the league (sorry Larry and Magic, but Moses was UNSTOPPABLE.) He LED the league in rebounding EVERY season in those five years, and and scoring seasons as high as 27.8 ppg, and even 31.1 ppg.

And, the Kareem-Moses H2H's, from the 79-80 thru the 84-85 seasons reflected Moses COMPLETE DOMINATION of Kareem, as well.

After that, both declined, and while Moses generally outplayed Kareem, neither were putting up spectacular numbers.

In any case, in their 40 H2H games, Moses held a staggering 25-12-3 margin in their scoring battles. Not only that, but in their 7 playoff games, Moses enjoyed a solid 5-2 edge. And, Moses held a whopping 11-6 margin in 30+ point games against Kareem.

Kareem's two highest games against Moses were 34 and 36. Meanwhile, Moses had games of 34, 34, 35, 36, 37, 37, 38, and 39 against Kareem. And in their post-season H2H's, Moses held a 2-1 edge in 30+ point games (Kareem's high was 32, while Moses had games of 33, and even 38 in their playoff battles.)

Rebounding? As expected, Moses just CRUSHED Kareem on the glass. In the known 16 games in which I could find their rebounding totals, Moses went an unbelieveable 16-0 against Kareem. And some were by HUGE margins. For instance, in the '83 Finals, Moses not only outrebounded Kareem, 4-0, he held a MASSIVE 18-8 rpg differential.

Not only that, but given the fact that Moses was a better rebounder in EVERY season in their 13 years in the league together, there was a very good chance that Moses won the VAST MAJORITY of their rebounding H2H's. I wouldn't be surprised if the overall margin was something like a 35-5 edge (or maybe even higher.)

Kareem did SLIGHTLY outshoot Moses from the floor in those 16 H2H games, but it was very close, and overall, Kareem shot .523 in those 16 games (again, from the 82-83 season thru the 88-89 season.) Moses shot .472 overall in those last 16 H2H games.

All of which is interesting. For instance, in Kareem's 84-85 and 85-86 seasons, against Moses, he averaged 22 ppg on .513 shooting from the field against Moses in their four H2H's. Against a 22 and 23 year old Hakeem, in those two seasons, and covering 10 H2H games, Kareem averaged 31.8 ppg on a mind-boggling .630 shooting. Meanwhile, Moses averaged 23 ppg on .484 shooting against Kareem, all while outrebounding him by an average differential of 12-5 rpg.

So, for those that question Moses's defense, they had better take a closer look. He was clearly a FORCE against Kareem. Once again, Moses' dodged Kareem's truly dominant seasons ('71-73), but even a young Moses was a near match for a near prime Kareem. And a PRIME Moses just ABUSED an older Kareem (even in a Kareem MVP season in 79-80.)
Continued...

[jlauber]

Continued...


Here are the 40 H2H's between Kareem and Moses...

76-77

1.

M 4
K 18 W

2.

M 17 W
K 28

3.

M 19
K 29 W

4.

M 26 W
K 23


77-78

1.

M 20 W (dominated glass)
K 32

2.

M 21
K 19 W

3.

M 29
K 22 W


78-79

1.

M 32
K 28 W

2.

M 34 W
K 34


79-80

1.

M 32
K 24 W

2.

M 29
K 15 W


80-81

1.

M 26
K 10 W

2.

M 17 W
K 18

3.

M 28
K 22 W

4.

M 29
K 30 W

5.

M 34 W
K 36

Playoffs

1.

M 38 W
K 21

2.

M 33
K 27 W

3.

M 23 W
K 32



81-82

1.

M 36 W
K 33

2.

M 37
K 21 W

3.

M 23
K 23 W

4.

M 39
K 12 W

5.

M 37
K 20 W


82-83

1.

M 12-22 5-8 14 29 W
K 7-11 1-2 2 15

2.

Kareem did not play

Finals

1.

M 9-20 9-12 18 27 W
K 8-15 4-6 4 20

2.

M 8-10 8-13 12 24 W
K 11-17 1-2 4 23

3.

M 10-19 8-13 19 28 W
K 8-20 7-8 15 23

4.

M 9-22 6-9 23 24 W
K 10-15 8-10 7 28


83-84

1.

M 6-13 5-8 11 18
K 5-15 2-4 5 12 W

2.

M 8-17 6-9 11 22 W
K 14-21 1-1 6 29


84-85

1.

M 12-21 11-16 13 35 W
K 12-23 0-2 6 24

2.

M 5-13 6-7 14 16
K 9-19 5-7 9 23 W


85-86

1.

M 4-11 6-8 9 14
K 6-12 1-1 4 13 W

2.

M 9-21 9-14 12 27
K 12-22 4-5 5 28 W


86-87

1.

M 7-15 7-8 10 21
K 6-13 3-5 6 15 W

2.

M 10-22 7-10 15 27 W
K 6-13 5-6 6 17


87-88

1.

M 10-19 6-11 9 26 W
K 12-22 1-2 6 25

2.

Kareem did not play


88-89

1.

M 5-12 6-9 16 16
K 7-13 2-2 4 16 W

2.

M 4-14 6-8 11 14 W
K 2-7 0-0 6 4



This was not some small sample, but accomplished over the course of 40 H2H games.