How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

[bmd]

Is 10 assists as difficult as 20 points?

Is 10 rebounds as difficult as 20 points?

Are there diminishing returns?

For example, assume 10 assists is as difficult as 20 points. Would that mean 20 assists is as difficult as 40 points? Or are there diminishing returns? Where 10 assists = 20 points, but 15 assists = 40 points and 20 assists = 50 points.

How would you assess the difficulty of each stat by using points as the driver?

[andgar923]

Is 10 assists as difficult as 20 points?

Is 10 rebounds as difficult as 20 points?

Are there diminishing returns?

For example, assume 10 assists is as difficult as 20 points. Would that mean 20 assists is as difficult as 40 points? Or are there diminishing returns? Where 10 assists = 20 points, but 15 assists = 40 points and 20 assists = 50 points.

How would you assess the difficulty of each?

it depends.

[bmd]

it depends....on?

[kennethgriffin]

an assist is not as hard as 2 points

its really up to the other guy to make the shot

an assist is valuable. but only if your spoon feeding the other guy


most assists come on a guy hitting a tough shot... only 1-2 times a game will a point guard absolutely make a guy get a wide up dunk right under the rim

magic was so valuable back in the 80's because he did this like 8 times a game


nobody in todays league comes close to spoon feeding like magic did

[ZenMaster]

Rebounding affect scoring and can directly give you points, get a offensive rebound in good postition and you're likely to get score or foul. Offenses score around 70% of the time on offensive rebounds.

[fpliii]

well, if we're talking about in terms of frequency:

in 2012 the average team scored 96.3 points a game, grabbed 42.2 rebounds, and 21.0 assists

source (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/stats.html)

meaning that, roughly:

20 points * (42.2 rpg / 96.3 ppg) = 8.76 rebounds

20 points * (21.0 apg / 96.3 ppg) = 4.36 assists

if you're talking about in terms of 'value', you'd have to run a regression on the entire dataset of individual games to come up with the matching points at which rebounds and assists equate the correlation to a win as 20 points (but that wouldn't be a true relationship or have any predictive value, just a summary of the results)

[bmd]

well, if we're talking about in terms of frequency:

in 2012 the average team scored 96.3 points a game, grabbed 42.2 rebounds, and 21.0 assists

source (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/stats.html)

meaning that, roughly:

20 points * (42.2 rpg / 96.3 ppg) = 8.76 rebounds

20 points * (21.0 apg / 96.3 ppg) = 4.36 assists

if you're talking about in terms of 'value', you'd have to run a regression on the entire dataset of individual games to come up with the matching points at which rebounds and assists equate the correlation to a win as 20 points (but that wouldn't be a true relationship or have any predictive value, just a summary of the results)I was looking at it in terms of individual players.

For example, people seem to give scoring more weight than other statistics. For example.. if a player averages 20 points a game but only 5 rebounds, how does that compare to somebody averaging 15 rebounds a game but only 10 points?

[fpliii]

I was looking at it in terms of individual players.

For example, people seem to give scoring more weight than other statistics. For example.. if a player averages 20 points a game but only 5 rebounds, how does that compare to somebody averaging 15 rebounds a game but only 10 points?

well I guess that's one perspective...if you look at each possible event in a game in terms of what occurs:

action - result
free throw made - one point is scored
2 point field goal made - two points are scored
3 point field goal made - three points are scored
assist - either two or three points are scored
rebound - another possession is gained
steal - a possession is gained
block - a possession may or may not be lost (I believe the year-to-year median is around 55% of blocks grant possession to the blocking team)
turnover - a possession is lost

points are the result of an action, but not an action in and of themselves; perhaps FG are more comparable, using this logic (or points / 2, if you want to account for free throws and threes)

[AK47DR91]

In terms of single game play, here's how I see it.

Point Guards and Shooting Guards with 10 rebound = 20 points
Power Forwards and Centers with 10 assists = 20 points
Small Forward 10 rebounds or 10 assists, or 7+ rebound and 7+ assists = 20 points

For a full season average....I don't know. That's a little too hard to dissect. Maybe just use PER. :lol

[Rubio2Gasol]

Assists is a stupid stat, players actually have to make the shot.

And there are in the flow points and points that influence the way defenses play teams, it's really all weighted differently.

Stats overall are just a pile of crap TBH.

[pauk]

1.a 10 assists
1.b 20 points
2. 10 rebounds


10 assists = 20 to 30 points on your teams boxscore, yes the other guy scored, but would those players baskets had the same quality shots and results if you didnt create that play for him? hence why you get 1 assist and the other guy gets 2 points... you both were accountable for the 2-3 points on the boxscore...

20 points = 20 points on your teams boxscore

10 rebounds = meh... if they are offensive, then yea very nice, but otherwise not as valuable/impactful as 10 assists or 20 points (unless those points came by 30-40 FG attempts or something)...


Assists > Rebounds tho, undebatable... there is a reason you never saw anybody average over 15 APG... but you saw very many average over 15, even over 20, hell over 25 rebounds... 15 assists means you helped being accountable for 30 to 45 of your teams points per game... thats like a guy dropping between 30 to 45 points himself... same result on the boxscore...

[andgar923]

...on?

The situations.

How they're obtained during which portion of the game.

There's different variables I suppose.

Just like with scoring points, not every point scored holds the same value imo.

Say a pg drives and delivers a perfect pass to an open player before the player knew he was open. Does that hold the same value? on the stat sheets I suppose it doesn't' matter, a pass is a pass and basket is a basket. But what if it's the 4th quarter in a close game, and Bird grabs the offensive rebound, and makes the quick pass to a cutting player for the easy bucket. Does that hold the same weight?

I know it's just one scenario, but I'm just trying to give an illustration.

In that sequence I described the point never gets scored if Bird doesn't get the rebound and makes the perfect pass.

[Odinn]

I don't think there can not be a fair adjustment about it. Think about Magic Johnson. When he grabs the board, he starts a fast break and stat sheet says 1 rebound + 1 assist for Magic Johnson. Yet that just 2 points.

It'd be like a 25/12/3 big man vs. a 30/6/6 SG or 20/6/12 PG.

[bmd]

well I guess that's one perspective...if you look at each possible event in a game in terms of what occurs:

action - result
free throw made - one point is scored
2 point field goal made - two points are scored
3 point field goal made - three points are scored
assist - either two or three points are scored
rebound - another possession is gained
steal - a possession is gained
block - a possession may or may not be lost (I believe the year-to-year median is around 55% of blocks grant possession to the blocking team)
turnover - a possession is lost

points are the result of an action, but not an action in and of themselves; perhaps FG are more comparable, using this logic (or points / 2, if you want to account for free throws and threes)Well, there are two ways to look at it.

1. Rebounds and assists are simply tools to use to achieve a goal. The goal is of course, points. Rebounds and assists mean nothing if they don't translate to points.

So you could try to find the average amount of points scored that were the direct or indirect result from a rebound or assist.

Then use that to judge how many rebounds or assists translates to points.

Or..

2. How do they compare in terms of difficulty. (this is more of what I was going for). For example... there was a thread on here yesterday talking about a game where John Stockton had like 20 points and 28 assists. Now, how difficult is it to get 28 assists in a game? Is it easier or harder than scoring 50 points?

How difficult is it to grab 25 boards in a game compared to scoring X amount of points in a game?

This is more of what I was going for.

[AK47DR91]

10 assists > 20 points > 10 rebounds


10 assists = 20 to 30 points on your teams boxscore

20 points = 20 points on your teams boxscore

10 rebounds = meh... if they are offensive, then yea very nice, but otherwise not as valuable as 10 assists or 20 points...
I disagree. It's the opposite when comparing rebound and assists.

It's usually just one guy(PG or ball-handler) who gets more than 6 assists on a team. For rebounds, you can have numerous guys with 6 or more. In a way, you're competing with for rebounds even within your own teammates.

Plus, you often hear people say championships are built on defense and rebounding. You don't often hear it with assists.

[fpliii]

Well, there are two ways to look at it.

1. Rebounds and assists are simply tools to use to achieve a goal. The goal is of course, points. Rebounds and assists mean nothing if they don't translate to points.

So you could try to find the average amount of points scored that were the direct or indirect result from a rebound or assist.

Then use that to judge how many rebounds or assists translates to points.

Or..

2. How do they compare in terms of difficulty. (this is more of what I was going for). For example... there was a thread on here yesterday talking about a game where John Stockton had like 20 points and 28 assists. Now, how difficult is it to get 28 assists in a game? Is it easier or harder than scoring 50 points?

How difficult is it to grab 25 boards in a game compared to scoring X amount of points in a game?

This is more of what I was going for.

situation 2 is interesting, but I can't imagine that there's any reasonable objective way to come up with those numbers

gun to my head, maybe something like

20 points = 7 assists = 9 rebounds

[pauk]

I disagree. It's the opposite when comparing rebound and assists.

It's usually just one guy(PG or ball-handler) who gets more than 6 assists on a team. For rebounds, you can have numerous guys with 6 or more. In a way, you're competing with for rebounds even within your own teammates.

Plus, you often hear people say championships are built on defense and rebounding. You don't often hear it with assists.

Another reason to why getting assists is much harder than rebounds....

[bmd]

situation 2 is interesting, but I can't imagine that there's any reasonable objective way to come up with those numbers

gun to my head, maybe something like

20 points = 7 assists = 9 reboundsI guess one way to figure it out is to look at rarity.

Say 60 points is only scored 3 times in the NBA in a season. Then I guess you'd look for an amount of assists that were achieved a similar number of times. So maybe 20 assists were scored only 3 times in the NBA in that season.

So in that case you could say 20 assists in a game is as difficult for a player to achieve as 60 points.

[pauk]

Well, there are two ways to look at it.

1. Rebounds and assists are simply tools to use to achieve a goal. The goal is of course, points. Rebounds and assists mean nothing if they don't translate to points.

So you could try to find the average amount of points scored that were the direct or indirect result from a rebound or assist.

Then use that to judge how many rebounds or assists translates to points.

Or..

2. How do they compare in terms of difficulty. (this is more of what I was going for). For example... there was a thread on here yesterday talking about a game where John Stockton had like 20 points and 28 assists. Now, how difficult is it to get 28 assists in a game? Is it easier or harder than scoring 50 points?

How difficult is it to grab 25 boards in a game compared to scoring X amount of points in a game?

This is more of what I was going for.

28 assists is a career high, almost an NBA history assist record...

28 rebounds? You see that much more often... hell people averaged that back in the day....

[fpliii]

I guess one way to figure it out is to look at rarity.

Say 60 points is only scored 3 times in the NBA in a season. Then I guess you'd look for an amount of assists that were achieved a similar number of times. So maybe 20 assists were scored only 3 times in the NBA in that season.

So in that case you could say 20 assists in a game is as difficult for a player to achieve as 60 points.

good idea, not sure how we'd get that total though...we could search on BBR, but they only list totals for each individual players at best with a search

[AK47DR91]

Another reason to why getting assists is much harder than rebounds....
From an individual stance, yes, mainly because only one guy on a team will get that opportunity. If there's no injuries to the starting PG.

Even if assists is harder, I still think rebounds have more value and are worth more for a team.

[bmd]

28 assists is a career high, almost an NBA history assist record...

28 rebounds? You see that much more often... hell people averaged that back in the day....This is my point. What amount of rebounds would be = to 28 assists?

If a standard could be worked out, this would help with judging individual performances.

For example, if 20 points = 7 assists = 9 rebounds = 2 steals = 2 blocks

Then you can judge an individual performance between people who have different strengths.


Player A:

10 points, 14 assists, 18 rebounds, 2 steals and 2 blocks

Player B:

60 points, 7 assists, 9 rebounds, 3 steals, 0 blocks


^^Those games would be identical based on points.

And the point amounts can be worked out... I just made up 20 points = 7 assists = 9 rebounds = 2 steals = 2 blocks.

[bmd]

good idea, not sure how we'd get that total though...we could search on BBR, but they only list totals for each individual players at best with a searchYeah I'm not sure how to find that information, either.

[fpliii]

Yeah I'm not sure how to find that information, either.

okay, so I did a search on BBR, exported as csv, and then summed in excel (well, numbers, on a mac)

here are the totals for 2012:

0+: 11238
10+: 8628
20+: 2265
30+: 347
40+: 29
50+: 3
60+: 0

I guess the next step is to reverse engineer totals for assists and rebounds for whichever markers we need (I'll start with 20 points)

the rarities are going to change from year-to-year, so this tedious process needs to be done for each season (unless you're only interested in ballpark numbers, in which case only this year should suffice)

[blood yes]

Id say 20 points=9 rebounds=7 assists

It makes sense, multiply this by 2

40=18=14
60=27=21
80=36=28

That is near perfect imo. 80 points has only been twice, 36 rebs has been done a handful of times, 28 assists is 2 away from career record

100=45=35

This is where it gets messy. Once you go past 80, it gets bad... soo..

100=60=33

Even tho no one has gotten 60 rebs or 33 assists, you have to remember that even Wilt himself never got more than 80 points more than once. the 100 was a lucky day for wilt.

100=60=33 is perfect

[fpliii]

just checked assists...here are the amounts corresponding to the point totals from before (in terms of frequency)

assists • points
0+ (11238) • 0+ (11238)
2+ (9163) - 3+ (7107) • 10+ (8628)
5+ (2680) - 6+ (1661) • 20+ (2265)
10+ (419) - 11+ (254) • 30+ (347)
15+ (40) - 16+ (21) • 40+ (29)
18+ (3) - 20+ (3) • 50+ (3)
21+ (0) • 60+ (0)

I'll do rebounds a little later

[bmd]

okay, so I did a search on BBR, exported as csv, and then summed in excel (well, numbers, on a mac)

here are the totals for 2012:

0+: 11238
10+: 8628
20+: 2265
30+: 347
40+: 29
50+: 3
60+: 0

I guess the next step is to reverse engineer totals for assists and rebounds for whichever markers we need (I'll start with 20 points)

the rarities are going to change from year-to-year, so this tedious process needs to be done for each season (unless you're only interested in ballpark numbers, in which case only this year should suffice)Since it changes, I guess a range of data would be better. But that would be too much work, so ballparking it is fine.

And I would help with gathering data but I have no idea where to find it or how to do anything with it in excel.

[fpliii]

Since it changes, I guess a range of data would be better. But that would be too much work, so ballparking it is fine.

And I would help with gathering data but I have no idea where to find it or how to do anything with it in excel.

the assist numbers appear to be roughly the same over the past 10 years, from a cursory check

all fall within the listed ranges, except at the very top (since those are all outliers, you can't really draw many conclusions)

[Owl]

Well, there are two ways to look at it.

1. Rebounds and assists are simply tools to use to achieve a goal. The goal is of course, points. Rebounds and assists mean nothing if they don't translate to points.

So you could try to find the average amount of points scored that were the direct or indirect result from a rebound or assist.

Then use that to judge how many rebounds or assists translates to points.

Or..

2. How do they compare in terms of difficulty. (this is more of what I was going for). For example... there was a thread on here yesterday talking about a game where John Stockton had like 20 points and 28 assists. Now, how difficult is it to get 28 assists in a game? Is it easier or harder than scoring 50 points?

How difficult is it to grab 25 boards in a game compared to scoring X amount of points in a game?

This is more of what I was going for.
There is no absolutely fair measure of difficulty. As people have said it depends on the context, how the points are scored (and on how many shots), whether the assist created the shot opportunity or merely happened to precede it etc.

But the nearest thing to difficulty we can accurately measure is frequency/scarcity.

fpliii has already covered this, at least for the 2012 season


well, if we're talking about in terms of frequency:

in 2012 the average team scored 96.3 points a game, grabbed 42.2 rebounds, and 21.0 assists

source (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/stats.html)

meaning that, roughly:

20 points * (42.2 rpg / 96.3 ppg) = 8.76 rebounds

20 points * (21.0 apg / 96.3 ppg) = 4.36 assists

if you're talking about in terms of 'value', you'd have to run a regression on the entire dataset of individual games to come up with the matching points at which rebounds and assists equate the correlation to a win as 20 points (but that wouldn't be a true relationship or have any predictive value, just a summary of the results) So interms of how often it happens for all players not point guards
20 x 2.5 = 50 (points)
4.36 x 2.5 = 10.9 (assists)
So for an average player (including but not exclusively pgs) a 10.9 assist game in 2011-12 was as probable as a 50 point game. But the uneven distribution of assists between pgs and non-pgs scews this. For a point guard the number would be substantially higher.


In terms specifically of 28 assists (or better) that has been done by:
Stockton (Utah) versus the Spurs in January 1991, 28 assists
Scott Skiles (Orlando) versus the hyperpaced Nuggets in December 1990, 30 assists
Guy Rodgers (Philadelphia Warriors) versus the St Louis Hawks in March 1963, 28 assists
Kevin Porter (New Jersey Nets) versus Houston February 1978, 29 assists
Bob Cousy (Boston) versus Min. Lakers February 1959, 28 assists

Because I got pre-1985-86 numbers from team records, there is a possibility (albeit a slim one as Porter played only 74 games for them) that Kevin Porter or other Nets have had games of 28 assists for the Nets (if so they would have to be between their founding as the New York Nets in the ABA and 1985).

Anyhow that's substantially rarer than 50 point game.

[fpliii]

finished rebounds

rebounds • points
0+ (11238) • 0+ (11238)
4+ (9181) - 5+ (7368) • 10+ (8628)
8+ (3040) - 9+ (2255) • 20+ (2265)
14+ (385) - 11+ (266) • 30+ (347)
20+ (31) - 21+ (17) • 40+ (29)
25+ (5) - 26+ (2) • 50+ (3)
31+ (0) • 60+ (0)

[fpliii]

so after checking a couple of other years quickly to figure out which end of the range to go with, my bottom line is

p/r/a
0/0/0
10/4/2
20/9/5
30/15/10
40/20/15
50/25/20
60/30/25 (from 85-86 to the present, there have been 16 60+ point games, 12 24+ assist games, 14 30+ rebound games; these are all outliers and the data is noisy, so I think it's fair to place the cutoffs there for neatness' sake)

[bmd]

so after checking a couple of other years quickly to figure out which end of the range to go with, my bottom line is

p/r/a
0/0/0
10/4/2
20/9/5
30/15/10
40/20/15
50/25/20
60/30/25 (from 85-86 to the present, there have been 16 60+ point games, 12 24+ assist games, 14 30+ rebound games; these are all outliers and the data is noisy, so I think it's fair to place the cutoffs there for neatness' sake)Can you give me a link to where you found the stats? I'd like to look around for a bit and maybe add steals and blocks.

[bmd]

so after checking a couple of other years quickly to figure out which end of the range to go with, my bottom line is

p/r/a
0/0/0
10/4/2
20/9/5
30/15/10
40/20/15
50/25/20
60/30/25 (from 85-86 to the present, there have been 16 60+ point games, 12 24+ assist games, 14 30+ rebound games; these are all outliers and the data is noisy, so I think it's fair to place the cutoffs there for neatness' sake)To test this, I just found the thread called "Better near quadruple-double performance in the NBA Finals". The first post compares 3 performances:

Bill Walton, 1977 Finals Game 6
20 points 23 rebounds 7 assists 8 blocks - 8/15fg 4/5ft

Shaquille O'Neal, 2001 Finals Game 2
28 points 20 rebounds 9 assists 8 blocks - 12/19fg 4/10ft

Tim Duncan, 2003 Finals Game 6
21 points 20 rebounds 10 assists 8 blocks - 9/19fg 3/5ft


Blocks on those are identical, so it doesn't matter that we didn't figure those.

So point-wise, taking into account points, rebounds, and assists:

I divided 9 rebounds into 20 points to get 2.2222222 "points" per rebound. And divided 5 into 20 to get 4 "points" per assist. This is using the standard that 20 points = 9 rebounds = 5 assists. Is this an okay way to do it? Can rebounds and assists be broken down to a per point basis? Anyway, here is what I figured:

Bill Walton: 20+51.111111+28 = 99.111111

Shaquille O'Neal: 28+44.4444444+36 = 108.444444

Tim Duncan: 21+44.4444444+40 = 105.444444


Therefore, Shaq had the best performance, followed by Duncan, and then Walton.


Now, you can still argue over efficiency of their performances... but as far as "difficulty" of the stats to achieve, Shaq's performance was the most difficult to achieve.

[bmd]

I'm guessing it doesn't make sense to break it down on a per point basis. There would have to be a chart where you'd search for the number of rebounds you are looking for to find the point equivalent, since the numbers don't increase at the same rate.

[fpliii]

Can you give me a link to where you found the stats? I'd like to look around for a bit and maybe add steals and blocks.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi

select 'Total Games' at the top, and '2011-12' under 'Seasons' at the left

after this, choose the amount in question and enter at the right

for example, here's the results page for 20+ points after you hit 'Get Results', click 'Make Tiny URL' at the top to condense):

http://bkref.com/tiny/bkoUq

next, click on share, and X out all of the columns except for 'Count'

now click on csv

copy and paste this into a text editor that lets you output csv (I use 'Tex-Edit Plus' on my mac...on a PC I think you can save it as a .txt in Notepad, and just change the extension on the desktop)

click 'Next page' at the bottom of the results page on BBR, and repeat the above steps until you have all the data for your query

save the file

open the file in Excel/Numbers or your spreadsheet program of choice

everything should be in one column, so just add one row at the bottom saying '=SUM(A1:Axxx)', where xx is the last row of data (don't worry about deleting text, the parser will ignore it and only read numerical data)

hit enter and you have your total

[Pushxx]

People aren't considering how assists help your team's flow and chemistry. Helps get players going. Intangible benefit of assists.

[fpliii]

I'm guessing it doesn't make sense to break it down on a per point basis. There would have to be a chart where you'd search for the number of rebounds you are looking for to find the point equivalent, since the numbers don't increase at the same rate.

perhaps, but the list above should suffice for the most part

here are the block numbers as a bonus:

0+ (11238)
1+ (6728) - 2+ (2346)
2+ (2346) - 3+ (882)
3+ (882) - 4+ (267)
6+ (35) - 7+ (16)
9+ (4) - 10+ (3) - 11+ (1)
12+ (0)

[andgar923]

People aren't considering how assists help your team's flow and chemistry. Helps get players going. Intangible benefit of assists.
this

[fpliii]

lastly, here are steals

0+ (11238)
1+ (9792) - 2+ (3639)
2+ (3639) - 3+ (1154)
3+ (1154) - 4+ (330)
5+ (88) - 6+ (19)
8+ (4)
9+ (0)

pretty exhausting stuff, no clue why BBR doesn't allow a direct search for this

[DKLaker]

an assist is not as hard as 2 points

its really up to the other guy to make the shot

an assist is valuable. but only if your spoon feeding the other guy


most assists come on a guy hitting a tough shot... only 1-2 times a game will a point guard absolutely make a guy get a wide up dunk right under the rim

magic was so valuable back in the 80's because he did this like 8 times a game


nobody in todays league comes close to spoon feeding like magic did

THIS

Magic's assists were REAL assists........I wish they would change the stat and stop giving out assists for just any old common pass. Rebounding too, I like the guys who go get the ball, hustle rather than the big guys who just stand around and grab what they can relying completely on height.

[ILLsmak]

you can't compare 20 points to 20 points, let alone 20 points to 10 assists, because stats have no tangible value. They are a record of what happened and many things can lead to those outcomes.

There are opposites, also, that you are not taking into account. Allowing rebounds/loose ball fouls, turnovers, missed shots.

This topic sounds like a good idea to discuss, but it's really nonsense.

-Smak

[fpliii]

lol someone negged me for doing this research at the OP's request?

at least leave your name, some pretty pathetic stuff :lol

[Horde of Temujin]

You motha****as are trying to bring moneyball to the NBA.

Kudos. Interesting stuff.

[KevinNYC]

well, if we're talking about in terms of frequency:

in 2012 the average team scored 96.3 points a game, grabbed 42.2 rebounds, and 21.0 assists

source (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/stats.html)

meaning that, roughly:

20 points * (42.2 rpg / 96.3 ppg) = 8.76 rebounds

20 points * (21.0 apg / 96.3 ppg) = 4.36 assists

if you're talking about in terms of 'value', you'd have to run a regression on the entire dataset of individual games to come up with the matching points at which rebounds and assists equate the correlation to a win as 20 points (but that wouldn't be a true relationship or have any predictive value, just a summary of the results)

I was hoping someone would run the stats. Another way to look at it is how often does a single player score 20 points and then compare that to the other two stats. So of the XXXX number of games played in 2012 how often did a player score 20 points or get 10 rebounds or 10 assists.

[fpliii]

I was hoping someone would run the stats. Another way to look at it is how often does a single player score 20 points and then compare that to the other two stats. So of the XXXX number of games played in 2012 how often did a player score 20 points or get 10 rebounds or 10 assists.

lol I also did that exact search for assists, rebounds, blocks, steals (in terms of frequency compared to 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 points), check out the last couple of pages :cheers:

[KevinNYC]

Yeah, I replied on the first page of the thread....but still Kudos to checking the actual stats.

[bmd]

One thing I thought about is the difference in the positions.

For example... a PG almost always has more assists than other players, and a center almost always has more rebounds than other players.

These are simply the result of the nature of their positions. Centers are under the basket and EXPECTED to get rebounds. And point guards are handling the ball and are EXPECTED to get assists.

SG, SF, and PF are kind of stuck in the middle.

So how can you assess their performances when comparing against a PG or a C? It is unfairly skewed to those who rack up assists or rebounds. SG would be screwed the most because they are generally out of position for rebounds, and they don't rack up assists like PG's.

So should the statistics be weighted accordingly depending on the position? For example, should assists from a small forward be worth more than an assist from a point guard?

The only problem with this is that it would require a lot more work. It would require finding stats for each specific position.

[jdm_dc_fan]

I think the result would not out weigh the trouble. See PER.

[bdreason]

I think Assists, especially these days, are vastly overrated.



Yes, some assists lead directly to buckets, and the passer may as well be given credit for the bucket.



However, more often than ever, what you see these days are assists that come from jumpers, or from players making a significant move to score after receiving the pass.

[guy]

I think Assists, especially these days, are vastly overrated.



Yes, some assists lead directly to buckets, and the passer may as well be given credit for the bucket.



However, more often than ever, what you see these days are assists that come from jumpers, or from players making a significant move to score after receiving the pass.

This. Honestly, I'd say maybe 20 assists = 20 points. Basically giving half the credit for a point to the assist guy. I think thats about fair. And then I might even say 20 rebounds = 20 points, because about only half the time a team scores so only about half the rebounds actually lead to a basket. Sounds crazy I know, but as much as people want to understate scoring, I think its still the greatest stat. Stats are overrated anyway because they don't tell the whole story, but I think it is the greatest stat.

[joshwake]

Assists is a stupid stat, players actually have to make the shot.

And there are in the flow points and points that influence the way defenses play teams, it's really all weighted differently.

Stats overall are just a pile of crap TBH.
:banghead: :hammerhead: :banghead: :hammerhead:
Assists are a "stupid stat"?

only on ish......

[PsychoWorm]

:banghead: :hammerhead: :banghead: :hammerhead:
Assists are a "stupid stat"?

only on ish......

I agree with him mostly. Assists don't factor in good passes that lead to baskets for example say Kobe splits the double team and then fakes the big guarding Pau and hits him with the pass, the defense rotates on Pau therefore he makes the simple pass to Dwight for the easy 2.

Does Pau deserve credit? Sure he does but so does Kobe. Also you can be playing the game of your life as a point guard on the Bobcats and make 40 good passes leading to open shots but if nobody hits anything you go down with 0 assists. Not a stupid stat it still has value but nowhere near perfect. :confusedshrug:

[NuggetsFan]

I think Assists, especially these days, are vastly overrated.



Yes, some assists lead directly to buckets, and the passer may as well be given credit for the bucket.



However, more often than ever, what you see these days are assists that come from jumpers, or from players making a significant move to score after receiving the pass.

Yup. Nowadays you'll watch a game and a guy will get 9-10 dimes than you can turn around and watch another and a guy who only got 6 assists will have ran the point better than guy A.

A guy like Lawson who penetrates? If Denver is shooting good from 3 he'll get more assists, if their not than he won't but he's doing the exact same thing.

Not to say assists are completely worthless but because a guy dumps the ball off to a player who does a step back jumper doesn't mean that assist is worth 2 points like so many people try and do.

[LT Ice Cream]

There's no easy way to measure that. IMO assists can be kind of subjective. I feel like an assist should only count if you make a pass that puts your teammate in an advantageous position to score.
But I've seen shit like Rondo passing to KG in the post and then he fakes left, spins right, pump fakes, up and under, finishes a hard layup.
Apparently that counts as an assist just the same as if you pass to Allen for an open 3.
So yeah, there's no way to measure your question.