Put LeBron on the 91 bulls at the same age as Jordan

[jongib369]

What's the outcome? That includes getting Dennis Rodman in later years.

What does he average with the different rules

How many Championships if any does he get

How does he mesh with Scottie and the others

and add anything you feel! I think this post could start some good conversation :)...More then likely been said before so I apologize if this is a over used thread


http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/lebron-on-the-bulls-230x300.jpg

http://th00.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2010/151/c/a/Lebron_James_Chicago_Bulls_by_Yala100.jpg

[RazorBaLade]

i dont know

[Soundwave]

I think they win 91 and 92 but lose in 93 as Pippen/Grant just weren't as into it that year.

Dunno about after that though, I don't know what LeBron's game will look like at age 32/33/34.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Pippen and Lebron play very similar in that they are both point forwards and do just about everything well. Not sure how those two would co-exist together.

These Bulls teams would sorely miss Mike's scoring arsenal - but If I had to guess, 2-3 championships...maybe 4. :confusedshrug:

[LeBird]

Pippen and Lebron play very similar in that they are both point forwards and do just about everything well. Not sure how those two would co-exist together.

I reckon they'd do so beautifully.


These Bulls teams would sorely miss Mike's scoring arsenal - but If I had to guess, 2-3 championships...maybe 4. :confusedshrug:

Although Lebron gives up a few ppg to Jordan; I think his playing style would be conducive to get the most out of Pippen and they could still win those titles. Conjecture, though.

[Harison]

2-3 rings, maybe.

[fsvr54]

2 rings

[Trentknicks]

The age argument is pretty biased considering Lebron had several more years than Jordan in the league at the same age.

[Poetry]

How does he mesh with Scottie and the others

In this scenario, has LeBron been with the team since Pippen was a rookie?

Are we assuming LeBron could help Pip develop into the player he became?

Have LeBron and Jordan been traded for each other?

Can the team play cohesively despite being built/tweaked/developed around Jordan?

Would Pip and LeBron both start?

LeBron's game is different from Jordan's, but would LeBron know what was at stake historically, what to aim for?

In our universe, he knows what it takes to be the GOAT, but if Jordan hadn't existed, where is the bar set at?

(For instance, Kobe knows what he has to aim for to hit the target--6 titles, MJ-like accolades/efficiency/Mythical Moments--is LeBron aware of this at this point in time?...Would a three-peat even be something he could fathom if MJ hadn't existed?...Would that affect how hard he worked...?)

[Dictator]

No homo. But Lebron looks the best in a lakers uniform.

[MrWarrior]

No homo. But Lebron looks the best in a lakers uniform.

IMO, it's the cavs.

:coleman:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I reckon they'd do so beautifully.

Maybe, maybe not. Both of them on the team seems kind of redundant. Lebron would have to do some adjusting for sure.

[WeGetRing2012]

20 rings. Best all around player since the basketball was invented.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[guy]

I'd say 3-4 assuming he doesn't retire. The more confident teams will shake the Bulls up more and by the time he hits his 30s, I have huge doubts he'll be close to as good as he is now or as Jordan was in his 30s, not to mention with him being in his 12th-17th seasons. By 95 or 96, he might not be the best player on his team anymore.

[Lebron23]

6 NBA Championships

[lilgodfather1]

I don't think Pippen and LeBron would play well together at all. They are very similar in terms of game. The defense would be insane still, but again offensively I think they are too similar.

[andgar923]

i dont know

Possibly the best answer ever given.

[NumberSix]

IMO, it's the cavs.

:coleman:
Gotta keep it real. Those Cavs uniforms were godlike.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/lebron-james-cavs.jpg

them 49er colors.

[scandisk_]

Probably 3 or 4, 5-6 is a stretch IMO (team was built around Mike)

91,92 and 96 titles

[KOBE143]

0 ring

That choker cant replace Mike..

[Sarcastic]

I am working on building a flux capacitor, so we can finally end all these debates.

[RedBlackAttack]

Jesus Christ. :facepalm

[Freedom Kid7]

I can't imagine the bulls being as good. Pippen and Lebron have really similar game styles and it'd be ineffective. Would LeBron even fit in the traingle?

[bizil]

There is no reason why Bron in place of MJ on those Bulls teams don't win multiple rings. I feel they would have the capabilities to win eight rings given the fact that MJ took off for baseball for a couple of years. It would be somewhat different because Bron is more of a pass first kind of guy. But Bron is still a great scorer who will get his 30 a night.

[SpecialQue]

http://www.the-coli.com/images/smilies/5I5s8.png

[pauk]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gIeEvaZYrzQ/Tnu3GFQQunI/AAAAAAAAA9o/7c16z0nWrO0/s1600/crystal_ball.jpg

[Jax]

10 championships in a row. Dunk on those bums all day, getting record FT attempts and fastbreak points.

[Collie]

How well does Lebron adapt to the triangle? Remember that Mike basically didn't handle the ball as much when the triangle was implemented. Mike was also the Bulls primary post threat and opened up everything for those Bulls teams.

Does LBJ average 43 against the Suns? How about 31-7-11 against the Lakers? Does LBJ on his last legs with a hobbled Pippen and old Rodman will the 98 Bulls past Utah?

It's ENORMOUS shoes to fill.

[wally_world]

I havent watched enough MJ games to judge. Just take away those wins where MJ's clutchness led the Bulls to victory and derive how many chips they would win with LeBron instead.

[Lebron23]

I havent watched enough MJ games to judge. Just take away those wins where MJ's clutchness led the Bulls to victory and derive how many chips they would win with LeBron instead.

LeBron is F*cking clutch. Same guy who led the NBA in 4th quarter scoring from 2007-2010. LeBron was F*cking clutch in the 2012 playoffs that's why he's the reigning Finals MVP while your favorite NBA player is still ring less.

[scandisk_]

LeBron is F*cking clutch. Same guy who led the NBA in 4th quarter scoring from 2007-2010. LeBron was F*cking clutch in the 2012 playoffs that's why he's the reigning Finals MVP while your favorite NBA player is still ring less.

of course he's clutch :pimp: Just not as clutch as MJ though :mad:

[tobethdope]

id guess the even line for over/under shud be at 1-2 rings

besides, the difficulty to win 6 (pretty much in a row) is way harder than 5, its very disproportionate; id say its at least twice as hard to win 6 rather than 5, and at least ten times as unlikely as to win 3

[OldSchoolBBall]

2-4 championships from what I've seen of Lebron so far. Three things are important here:

- Lebron is nowhere near the off-ball player Jordan was, which means that he'd play more on the ball, which would nullify some of Pippen's effectiveness and perhaps cause disinterest in the rest of the team.

- How would Lebron do in a more physical era where he isn't being gifted 10-15+ FT's nightly and where flopping isn't rewarded and you couldn't just go barreling into people and expect a call? How does he handle the Pistons and Knicks?

- How will Lebron age? In this topic, we're assuming a 27 year old Lebron on the '91 Bulls, which was his age this past season. Will be as good as '96 or '97 MJ was in 5-6 seasons? Will he be able to expand on his game the way MJ did to stay relatively similarly effective?

[BrickingStar]

0 ring

That choker cant replace Mike..
You weren't even alive in 91 what does your dumbass know :roll:

[Da_Realist]

id guess the even line for over/under shud be at 1-2 rings

besides, the difficulty to win 6 (pretty much in a row) is way harder than 5, its very disproportionate; id say its at least twice as hard to win 6 rather than 5, and at least ten times as unlikely as to win 3

It's hard to win 6 championships. It takes more than talent to win that many. It takes leadership, drive, good health, good coaching staff, etc. Let's see Lebron win one or two more first. Let's see what that fire in his belly looks like after winning one last year. The world puts pressure on you to win the first title. After that, the fire must come from within.

[Dragonyeuw]

A few questions: does Pippen develop into the same kind of player alongside Lebron? Those two have very similar tendencies and style, and with Lebron being so much more on the ball than Jordan was, how much does that impact Pippen's game? Can Lebron motivate him the way Jordan did?

[guy]

- How will Lebron age? In this topic, we're assuming a 27 year old Lebron on the '91 Bulls, which was his age this past season. Will be as good as '96 or '97 MJ was in 5-6 seasons? Will he be able to expand on his game the way MJ did to stay relatively similarly effective?

To me, it didn't seem like Jordan really expanded on his game during the 2nd threepeat. He may have improved on his post game and range but not by much. He was always supremely skilled, he just didn't have to depend on it as much due to his elite athleticism which pretty much enabled him to get to the basket anytime he wanted to. I just think he utilized his skillset more during the 2nd three-peat since he had to as his athleticism faded.

Thats the biggest difference between him and Lebron. Jordan didn't develop those skills as he aged, he already had them. So if Lebron is going to stay on top of the league like Jordan did as he ages, are we going to assume he's going to magically become one of the greatest post/midrange/jumpshooting players ever all of a sudden? IMO, only his passing is an elite aspect of his game that isn't so dependent on his athleticism.

I think some people make an incorrect assumption that players regularly make this huge step in their skillset in their lat 20s. After 27, I don't think a player's skillset changes that much. I don't think he's going to stop being a great player in this league cause even if he does lose athleticism, he will still have alot much like Jordan was still very athletic in his mid-30s, but instead of being the consensus best player in the league the way Jordan still was, I think he'd probably be more in the #7-#10 range, maybe even right outside the top 10 by the time he turns 31 or 32. Not to mention how many minutes he'll have on his body by then.

[Dragonyeuw]

So if Lebron is going to stay on top of the league like Jordan did as he ages, are we going to assume he's going to magically become one of the greatest post/midrange/jumpshooting players ever all of a sudden?



The odds of 'suddenly' becoming a great shooter after 9 seasons are pretty slim. There's a myth that Jordan coming into the league couldn't shoot; while he obviously improved in that area and reformed his jumpshot( Prime Jordan's jumper looks quite different from early career Jordan), he was never a 'non-shooter'.

And like you said, Jordan had the post-game and midrange game honed to perfection during the first 3-peat, while still having elite athleticism to go along with experience. That's why most consider first 3-peat Jordan the best version of MJ. It was a point when basically everything came together at once. 2nd 3peat MJ featured the post and mid-range/fadeaway game alot more to compensate for declining physical skills( as you said), but he already had that ability by the time he was 27-28.

[Da_Realist]

To me, it didn't seem like Jordan really expanded on his game during the 2nd threepeat. He may have improved on his post game and range but not by much. He was always supremely skilled, he just didn't have to depend on it as much due to his elite athleticism which pretty much enabled him to get to the basket anytime he wanted to. I just think he utilized his skillset more during the 2nd three-peat since he had to as his athleticism faded.

Thats the biggest difference between him and Lebron. Jordan didn't develop those skills as he aged, he already had them. So if Lebron is going to stay on top of the league like Jordan did as he ages, are we going to assume he's going to magically become one of the greatest post/midrange/jumpshooting players ever all of a sudden? IMO, only his passing is an elite aspect of his game that isn't so dependent on his athleticism.

I think some people make an incorrect assumption that players regularly make this huge step in their skillset in their lat 20s. After 27, I don't think a player's skillset changes that much. I don't think he's going to stop being a great player in this league cause even if he does lose athleticism, he will still have alot much like Jordan was still very athletic in his mid-30s, but instead of being the consensus best player in the league the way Jordan still was, I think he'd probably be more in the #7-#10 range, maybe even right outside the top 10 by the time he turns 31 or 32. Not to mention how many minutes he'll have on his body by then.

One thing to consider is that Lebron will always be 6'8" with a sizable strength and/or speed advantage over people that are guarding him. Lebron at his size doesn't need the technical skill level that Jordan had in the post to be as effective. Magic didn't have the footwork et al but was tremendously effective working out of the post due to his size and passing ability. Lebron will always be either too big/strong or too quick for most defenders. Rarely will someone be as strong and as quick. MJ had to be as technically sound at 6'6" because, although strong, he couldn't barrel over defenders consistently like Lebron can. His footwork had to do the job for him.

It's sort of like how Shaq didn't need Hakeem's footwork.

[guy]

The odds of 'suddenly' becoming a great shooter after 9 seasons are pretty slim. There's a myth that Jordan coming into the league couldn't shoot; while he obviously improved in that area and reformed his jumpshot( Prime Jordan's jumper looks quite different from early career Jordan), he was never a 'non-shooter'.

And like you said, Jordan had the post-game and midrange game honed to perfection during the first 3-peat, while still having elite athleticism to go along with experience. That's why most consider first 3-peat Jordan the best version of MJ. It was a point when basically everything came together at once. 2nd 3peat MJ featured the post and mid-range/fadeaway game alot more to compensate for declining physical skills( as you said), but he already had that ability by the time he was 27-28.

Exactly. People make this assumption that Lebron is going to develop these skills and stay on top just because they seem to THINK thats what happened with Jordan and even Kobe. When the reality is both Jordan and Kobe were always very skilled scorers and were elite even without the physical dominance. Can't say the same about Lebron.

[guy]

One thing to consider is that Lebron will always be 6'8" with a sizable strength and/or speed advantage over people that are guarding him. Lebron at his size doesn't need the technical skill level that Jordan had in the post to be as effective. Magic didn't have the footwork et al but was tremendously effective working out of the post due to his size and passing ability. Lebron will always be either too big/strong or too quick for most defenders. Rarely will someone be as strong and as quick. MJ had to be as technically sound at 6'6" because, although strong, he couldn't barrel over defenders consistently like Lebron can. His footwork had to do the job for him.

It's sort of like how Shaq didn't need Hakeem's footwork.

This is true, which is why I think he's going to remain a great player. Just like people overstate how much more skilled a player gets as they age, I think they also overstate how much of their physical advantages they lose as they age. However, his physical advantage has already started to fade a bit and he's already not barreling over defenders as much as he did before and that will continue, which is why I have huge doubts he will remain anywhere close to being the best player in the league even if he still is a great player in 3-5 years.

[lilgodfather1]

Exactly. People make this assumption that Lebron is going to develop these skills and stay on top just because they seem to THINK thats what happened with Jordan and even Kobe. When the reality is both Jordan and Kobe were always very skilled scorers and were elite even without the physical dominance. Can't say the same about Lebron.
LeBron will still have a speed advantage over the PF's that will be guarding him into his 30's. Not to mention the range that will draw them far out on to the perimiter. Jordan wasn't big enough to play PF, but LeBron is. He had to adapt to playing a different style when his athletecism faded, but LeBron can play the same style just as a stretch 4 instead.

[riseagainst]

Exactly. People make this assumption that Lebron is going to develop these skills and stay on top just because they seem to THINK thats what happened with Jordan and even Kobe. When the reality is both Jordan and Kobe were always very skilled scorers and were elite even without the physical dominance. Can't say the same about Lebron.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :applause: :applause:

[guy]

LeBron will still have a speed advantage over the PF's that will be guarding him into his 30's. Not to mention the range that will draw them far out on to the perimiter. Jordan wasn't big enough to play PF, but LeBron is. He had to adapt to playing a different style when his athletecism faded, but LeBron can play the same style just as a stretch 4 instead.

He can draw out PFs to the perimeter but his jump shot is nowhere near as good as Jordan's. I do think he'll still be great, but nowhere near the best player in the league and what Jordan was in his 30s.

[Jax]

Lebron youngest scorer to reach 1000,2000,5000,10000,15000,xx... you get the point...

[game3524]

I don't think Pippen and LeBron would play well together at all. They are very similar in terms of game. The defense would be insane still, but again offensively I think they are too similar.

This.

[bizil]

In my opinion, Bron is on another level than Pippen scoring the rock. Hell look at the numbers! Bron averages 27.6 points for his career! Bron's scoring dominance is CLEARLY alpha dog, Batman, number one option shit. Now if u prefer Dirk, Kobe, Durant, or Melo more as a alpha dog type then that's completely fine. But Bron is a dominant scorer nonetheless. And as great as MJ and Wade are defensively, the thing Pippen and Bron can do in tandem defense would be on another level. Both can check 1-4 and Bron can even check certain 5's. Pippen would also be the most willing great passer Bron has ever played with. Phil Jackson would also make it a point for Bron to be dominant on the block in the Triangle offense. I think Bron in place of MJ has a great chance of getting as many rings as MJ did. Not saying he's a better fit than MJ, it's just the level of player Lebron happens to be!

[inclinerator]

he'd probably get the team more involved than mj

[-23-]

In my opinion, Bron is on another level than Pippen scoring the rock. Hell look at the numbers! Bron averages 27.6 points for his career! Bron's scoring dominance is CLEARLY alpha dog, Batman, number one option shit. Now if u prefer Dirk, Kobe, Durant, or Melo more as a alpha dog type then that's completely fine. But Bron is a dominant scorer nonetheless. And as great as MJ and Wade are defensively, the thing Pippen and Bron can do in tandem defense would be on another level. Both can check 1-4 and Bron can even check certain 5's. Pippen would also be the most willing great passer Bron has ever played with. Phil Jackson would also make it a point for Bron to be dominant on the block in the Triangle offense. I think Bron in place of MJ has a great chance of getting as many rings as MJ did. Not saying he's a better fit than MJ, it's just the level of player Lebron happens to be!

yeah, Lebron can defend C's in TODAY'S league. Is he going to guard Ewing? Shaq? LOL. He would be exposed.

[crisoner]

LeBron and Pippen are not as good as a match as Jordan and Pippen. Or heck why don;t we just make it Jordan and LeBron. That would be sick.

[Lebronn23]

15 Rings :coleman:

[bizil]

yeah, Lebron can defend C's in TODAY'S league. Is he going to guard Ewing? Shaq? LOL. He would be exposed.

I SAID SOME CENTERS! I didn't say every center. Take Zo for example, Bron is only an inch shorter and weighs just as much. Every center in the L now OR then isn't a threat scoring the rock, hitting the boards, blocking shots, etc. So YES Bron can defend SOME C's! U do realize that Sam Perkins was listed as a center at times in that era! U do realize centers like Vlade Divac are more finesse face up centers! U do realize Bron is 260 pounds, he weighs just as much and even more than even Ewing, Robinson, or Hakeem at their peaks! Once again I'm not saying he could defend every center every possesion. But in terms of less dominant centers or backup centers, HELL YA Bron can defend them!

[LeBird]

In my opinion, Bron is on another level than Pippen scoring the rock. Hell look at the numbers! Bron averages 27.6 points for his career! Bron's scoring dominance is CLEARLY alpha dog, Batman, number one option shit. Now if u prefer Dirk, Kobe, Durant, or Melo more as a alpha dog type then that's completely fine. But Bron is a dominant scorer nonetheless. And as great as MJ and Wade are defensively, the thing Pippen and Bron can do in tandem defense would be on another level. Both can check 1-4 and Bron can even check certain 5's. Pippen would also be the most willing great passer Bron has ever played with. Phil Jackson would also make it a point for Bron to be dominant on the block in the Triangle offense. I think Bron in place of MJ has a great chance of getting as many rings as MJ did. Not saying he's a better fit than MJ, it's just the level of player Lebron happens to be!

Great post, I agree. Lebron, btw, has the 3rd highest ppg average in history after Jordan and Wilt. It's crazy how people underrate him as a scorer.

[Duncan21formvp]

Considering Lebron lost with HCA 3 years in a row and was even down 3-2 with HCA this year while MJ never lost with HCA and was only down 1-0 with HCA and was always up at least 2-1, 3-2 with it then I am confident Lebron doesn't win with those Bulls teams. Not to mention he still hasn't carried a franchise that never won anything prior to him arriving to a title like MJ did. Lebron needed a guy who got it done as the man already to win.

[10x91= 5 Rings]

the question should be...could lebron handle flying bad boy elbows and knicks going for the hunt or would he shrink and be scared???

[Smoke117]

In my opinion, Bron is on another level than Pippen scoring the rock. Hell look at the numbers! Bron averages 27.6 points for his career! Bron's scoring dominance is CLEARLY alpha dog, Batman, number one option shit. Now if u prefer Dirk, Kobe, Durant, or Melo more as a alpha dog type then that's completely fine. But Bron is a dominant scorer nonetheless. And as great as MJ and Wade are defensively, the thing Pippen and Bron can do in tandem defense would be on another level. Both can check 1-4 and Bron can even check certain 5's. Pippen would also be the most willing great passer Bron has ever played with. Phil Jackson would also make it a point for Bron to be dominant on the block in the Triangle offense. I think Bron in place of MJ has a great chance of getting as many rings as MJ did. Not saying he's a better fit than MJ, it's just the level of player Lebron happens to be!

Why would he make that a point? Lebron still has nothing special in the post. Pippen just like Wade would still be the better player in the post. Lebron still has shown nothing consistent in the post and by 1992 Pippen had a solid post game and as both can't dominate the ball I'd say you'd see Pippen in the post more than you would see Lebron (unless he improves immensely) as Pippen is frankly just a far more accomplished post player. All Lebron does is go to a turn around where as Pippen had an array of moves he could go to in the post. He had a very underrated and under appreciated post game that was under utilized as he had to initiate the offense at the top of the key. Either way Pippen had a solid post game by his 5th season. Lebron just finished his 9th season and still is nothing special in the post.

[Collie]

Lebron youngest scorer to reach 1000,2000,5000,10000,15000,xx... you get the point...

You mean the point that he entered the NBA at 18 and had a big headstart? Yeah.

[lefthook00]

B/c of his style, I feel like LeBron would do VERY well with that Bulls team. I can see him getting like 4 rings.

[bizil]

Why would he make that a point? Lebron still has nothing special in the post. Pippen just like Wade would still be the better player in the post. Lebron still has shown nothing consistent in the post and by 1992 Pippen had a solid post game and as both can't dominate the ball I'd say you'd see Pippen in the post more than you would see Lebron (unless he improves immensely) as Pippen is frankly just a far more accomplished post player. All Lebron does is go to a turn around where as Pippen had an array of moves he could go to in the post. He had a very underrated and under appreciated post game that was under utilized as he had to initiate the offense at the top of the key. Either way Pippen had a solid post game by his 5th season. Lebron just finished his 9th season and still is nothing special in the post.

Phil has a way of getting the best outta of his guys. MJ's post game improved over time and the older he got. With Bron's size, athletic ability, the traingle offense, and passing ability, Phil I'm sure would have wanted to see Bron in the post more. I realize Bron doesn't have the most polished offensive post game. But in terms of passing from the post and IMPROVING with age over time at the technical aspects, Bron over time could evolve. U gotta realize Bron is only 27 years old. MJ was better in the post in his mid 30's than he was earlier in his career. And as good as Pippen is on the block, Bron has more upside on the block. And by the way Pip was underutilized cause MJ was occupying that SF style post spot. MJ himself said overtime he played more as a SF in that triangle offense. Bron is actually beginning to go to the post more as it is.

Some of you posters on here are real finicky when it comes to shit. Why wouldn't Phil encourage Lebron to be on the block more. And encourage him to expand on that for the good of the team. Once again, MJ at 27 was not as technically sound as MJ in his mid 30's. Phil started coaching MJ in his 20's and was there to see the evolution at 35 years old. What MJ lost in athletic ability he gained in knowledge and technical skill. The post was an area where that evolution was DAMN evident. Bron is my book has Magic Johnson style upside on the block.

[Celtics4ever]

0 rings.

LeBron is a choker and isn't clutch. That Bulls team needed a 4th quarter and big game assassin. LeBron had a lucky year last year with all the injuries and shortened season. They guy should have zero rings right now.