"b-b-b-but Modern Nutrition" (PRIME Willis Reed posterized by nameless 6-3 guard)

[CavaliersFTW]

http://youtu.be/5SV51pPKpWk

I am sitting on a lot of dunks and athletic plays like this in my archive... and we live in a world where Allen Iverson was addicted to McDonalds, Rodman was on every drug known to man, and Lamar Odom has a candy addiction... yet I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say "but modern nutrition!" like it's a secret key ingredient to creating athleticism

Honestly, from what I see - freak athletes are freak athletes, simple genetics. And from footage I have, it looks like they've been a part of EVERY nba era, they aren't something new.

I get the idea young fans see small super athletic guards like Westbrook or Rose doing their beastly dunks today and assuming that sh*t would be unfathomable in the 60's/70's - like it would stun the crowd or shell shock that eras defenders or some sh*t. But honestly, it's been done before.

Inb4 enraged teenage 60's/70's era haters

[Pointguard]

Nasty. Fred Carter used to be announcer on one of the major networks. Willis probably caught him in an alley way.

[Knicksfever2010]

not sure about 'posterizing'...looked like willis reed turned to help on defense and by then it was too late, and he didnt want to pick up a foul.

Nice reach at trying to diss a New York Knick player. Best of luck hating

[TheeBeast]

We also have new medical advances, just look at what the German knee procedure did for Kobe

[CavaliersFTW]

not sure about 'posterizing'...looked like willis reed turned to help on defense and by then it was too late, and he didnt want to pick up a foul.

Nice reach at trying to diss a New York Knick player. Best of luck hating
:facepalm

Willis is one of my fav players, hating on him isn't my agenda at all. Showcasing athleticism from the era he played in (which ultimately can only serve to add credence to his reputation) is what I'm on about.

[CavaliersFTW]

We also have new medical advances, just look at what the German knee procedure did for Kobe
Yes, THAT is legitimate stuff. I have nothing wrong with people using medical technology as reasoning for things like increasing player longevity or reducing injury severity. That isn't what I'm on about, I'm talking about people who think that 60's/70's/80's players were somehow less well-fed and therefore less athletic. The "nutrition" argument is totally baseless. Many players today still have sh*t diets, and players back than didn't have Taco Bell... and elite athleticism was present in both eras. The "modern nutrition" thing is just a weak argument

[jlauber]

Not sure about the "nutrition" argument, but players SMOKED back then. Even Chamberlain did so.

[CavaliersFTW]

Not sure about the "nutrition" argument, but players SMOKED back then. Even Chamberlain did so.
And players smoke today. It just isn't tobacco.

[FF1]

http://www.unionversity.com/winning-olympics-vault-56-years-apart

Things change. I also read some article about how middle schoolers are sprinting faster than gold medalists in the early 1900s.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.unionversity.com/winning-olympics-vault-56-years-apart

Things change. I also read some article about how middle schoolers are sprinting faster than gold medalists in the early 1900s.
Oh, cool, did you happen to also come upon the article about 50,000 year old aborigines that were sprinting as fast as Usain Bolt in their bare feet?

[andgar923]

http://youtu.be/5SV51pPKpWk

I am sitting on a lot of dunks and athletic plays like this in my archive... and we live in a world where Allen Iverson was addicted to McDonalds, Rodman was on every drug known to man, and Lamar Odom has a candy addiction... yet I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say "but modern nutrition!" like it's a secret key ingredient to creating athleticism

Honestly, from what I see - freak athletes are freak athletes, simple genetics. And from footage I have, it looks like they've been a part of EVERY nba era, they aren't something new.

I get the idea young fans see small super athletic guards like Westbrook or Rose doing their beastly dunks today and assuming that sh*t would be unfathomable in the 60's/70's - like it would stun the crowd or shell shock that eras defenders or some sh*t. But honestly, it's been done before.

Inb4 enraged teenage 60's/70's era haters

gotta disagree with you.

Modern nutrition in general has improved vastly since then. Hell

[CavaliersFTW]

you should go back to hating on euroleague loser, its all that youre good for, pathetic miserable lowlife

:roll:

[KyrieTheFuture]

The nutrition part is ridiculous. You think these ghetto stars were getting a good diet? Fast food isn't gonna make you jump higher

[senelcoolidge]

The NBA has always had great athletes since it first began. No surprise. Guys back in the 60's, 70's and past decades were all good to great athletes. Sure they didn't have the modern training, it was just natural gifts. It shouldn't surprise people that guys back than were just as athletic as guys today.

[G-train]

Cant tell me these old dudes were downing protein shakes, creatine and whatever else as well as working out on the same equipment and with same programs as modern day athletes.
I think some ISHERs are not aware of what it takes diet/exercise wise to be an NBA player.

[G-train]

http://youtu.be/5SV51pPKpWk

I am sitting on a lot of dunks and athletic plays like this in my archive... and we live in a world where Allen Iverson was addicted to McDonalds, Rodman was on every drug known to man, and Lamar Odom has a candy addiction... yet I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say "but modern nutrition!" like it's a secret key ingredient to creating athleticism

Honestly, from what I see - freak athletes are freak athletes, simple genetics. And from footage I have, it looks like they've been a part of EVERY nba era, they aren't something new.

I get the idea young fans see small super athletic guards like Westbrook or Rose doing their beastly dunks today and assuming that sh*t would be unfathomable in the 60's/70's - like it would stun the crowd or shell shock that eras defenders or some sh*t. But honestly, it's been done before.

Inb4 enraged teenage 60's/70's era haters

JJ Reddick can do that dunk.

[Rolando]

Yes, the nutrition thing is stupid.

The biggest difference that I can determine is simply the quality of the footwear. These guys were all playing in Chuck Taylors from Converse. The shoes that players wear today allow them to jump with confidence, knowing that they will come down on some padding. Also, moving side to side quickly in primitive sneakers like Chucky T's is more difficult because of the lack of good lateral support and shitty sole.

The next biggest difference are how the rules have changed regarding ball handling.

Athletes' bodies have not changed much in the last 40 or 50 years. The training is better though.

[KG215]

Oh, cool, did you happen to also come upon the article about 50,000 year old aborigines that were sprinting as fast as Usain Bolt in their bare feet?

This caught my interest and, for the record, I'm in your camp on this subject, but I'd like to know if there's anything more than the Googled articles I found that just simply state quotes from the Manthropology author.

Like this....


By analysing sets of footprints preserved in a fossilised claypan lake bed, Mr McAllister concluded that Australian aboriginals 20,000 years ago reached speeds of 23mph on soft, muddy ground.
I mean...how? How did he conclude that they could reach speeds that fast by analyzing some footprints?

I did find this interesting:


Turning to the high jump, McAllister said photographs taken by a German anthropologist showed young men jumping heights of up to 2.52 meters in the early years of last century. “It was an initiation ritual, everybody had to do it. They had to be able to jump their own height to progress to manhood,” he said.

That's from this article or blog or whatever about that book.

http://playthink.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/manthropology/

[andgar923]

This caught my interest and, for the record, I'm in your camp on this subject, but I'd like to know if there's anything more than the Googled articles I found that just simply state quotes from the Manthropology author.

Like this....


I mean...how? How did he conclude that they could reach speeds that fast by analyzing some footprints?

I did find this interesting:



That's from this article or blog or whatever about that book.

http://playthink.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/manthropology/

I'm assuming that they could run that fast out of necessity.

Just how Mexican natives were said to basically run for hours at high speeds, out of necessity.

[andgar923]

I mean...how? How did he conclude that they could reach speeds that fast by analyzing some footprints?


I might be wrong (somebody correct me), but can't scientists calculate the speeds of animals as well? animals that have been extinct for hundreds of years? so I'm sure they can calculate human's speed as well.

[eliteballer]

Yes, the nutrition thing is stupid.

The biggest difference that I can determine is simply the quality of the footwear. These guys were all playing in Chuck Taylors from Converse. The shoes that players whear today allow them to jump with confidence, knowing that they will come down on some padding. Also, moving side to side quickly in primitive sneakers like Chucky T's is more difficult because of the lack of good lateral support and shitty sole.

The next biggest difference are how the rules have changed regarding ball handling.

Athletes' bodies have not changed much in the last 40 or 50 years. The training is better though.

Really good post, people rarely mention the shoes. It's not even necessarily about nutrition. In many ways the food they ate back then was more wholesome, but you look at the other things.

#1 Training is just way more sophisticated, and they train more. Even Wilt used to say players in the 80's were more athletic.
#2 obviously the game has evolved. A kid growing up watching Jordan on tv will develop a more advanced handle than a kid who watched Oscar, and rarely at that

[BoutPractice]

Lots of good points in this thread.
I would add that there's a perception error of sorts, in which modern athletes appear to move more "gracefully" (due to various factors like equipment, filming and a different basketball culture) as if that had anything to do with performance.

But yeah, basically the genetics that make great athletes great are the same in the 60s as in today.

[SyRyanYang]

So you don't believe that the nutrition and training technique at present is far better than it was? Sure you can eat junk food 24/7, it is your choice to take advantage of it or not.
You're right about "freak athletes are freak athletes, simple genetics." But advanced technology is definitely a big icing on the cake.
As for why today's top players are more athletic than their predecessors, it's simply b/c there are way more professional basketball players than before.

[SyRyanYang]

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/2012/08/blogs/game-theory/20120811_woc773.jpg
Checkmate

[dunksby]

Keep in mind that 50s and 60s didn't have any kinda doping control body, not saying this guy was on something for sure but I would not be surprised if a lot of less athletic players doped.

[sundizz]

Here is what has changed: exposure.

The human body has not changed THAT dramatically since the 50's to now. However, the sport of basketball has grown exponentially in popularity. At the time the best athletes probably weren't as interested in basketball..there wasn't as much money, notoriety, womenz, etc.

Shoes don't matter. Nutrition doesn't matter. The court doesn't matter. Athletic people be athletic. Genetics dominate every other aspect. Michael Jordan could jump higher than Gerald Henderson after smoking a blunt, eating mickey's d, and wearing flip flops even if you let GHen train for two months for that one jump.

[dunksby]

Here is what has changed: exposure.

The human body has not changed THAT dramatically since the 50's to now. However, the sport of basketball has grown exponentially in popularity. At the time the best athletes probably weren't as interested in basketball..there wasn't as much money, notoriety, womenz, etc.

Shoes don't matter. Nutrition doesn't matter. The court doesn't matter. Athletic people be athletic. Genetics dominate every other aspect. Michael Jordan could jump higher than Gerald Henderson after smoking a blunt, eating mickey's d, and wearing flip flops even if you let GHen train for two months for that one jump.
Nobody is denying that you stupid ass mfer, the whole discussion is about the scrubs and role players' level of competitiveness. :facepalm

[abuC]

Oh, cool, did you happen to also come upon the article about 50,000 year old aborigines that were sprinting as fast as Usain Bolt in their bare feet?


They could Sprint up to 23mph allegedly, that is not as fast as Usain who averaged 23mph but hit a top speed from 60-80m just under 28mph.

[NYK_Stan]

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/2012/08/blogs/game-theory/20120811_woc773.jpg
Checkmate
Bro, as a track and field guy I can quite easily explain this.

Back in the old days, tracks were either wood, cinder, or dirt.
Spikes were leathery pieces of shit with nails in the bottom.

Training was also less advanced at the time. Things like dynamics (versus static stretching) and plyometrics weren't always widely used.

Modern sprinters are better due to improvements in spikes, track design, and workout plans.

Also the field of competition in international track and field is bigger than ever.

Bigger pool of athletes = bigger chance to hit the genetic lottery.

[MrWarrior]

Bro, as a track and field guy I can quite easily explain this.

Back in the old days, tracks were either wood, cinder, or dirt.
Spikes were leathery pieces of shit with nails in the bottom.

Training was also less advanced at the time. Things like dynamics (versus static stretching) and plyometrics weren't always widely used.

Modern sprinters are better due to improvements in spikes, track design, and workout plans.

Also the field of competition in international track and field is bigger than ever.

Bigger pool of athletes = bigger chance to hit the genetic lottery.

So basically, todays athletes are more athletic ?

[Rake2204]

Just to clarify, is that Fred "Mad Dog" Carter?

[CavaliersFTW]

Just to clarify, is that Fred "Mad Dog" Carter?
Yup :D

[millwad]

CavaliersFTW, don't understand the purpose of this thread, there are shorter HS-players who throws down way nastier dunks than that one, Reed wasn't even contesting the dunk.

I have friend who is 6-1 who plays in like division 3 in Sweden who got nastier in game dunks than that..

No one is claiming that the guards couldn't dunk, a 6'3 NBA player should be able to dunk and you finding a 6'3 player who dunks without any contest shouldn't be such a big deal that you actually would make a thread about it. The thing is more that people claims that very few of the guards back then played above the rim like some of the freak guards do today. And guards being less athletic is a fact, they played under the rim in that era.

[Rake2204]

Yup :D
Good stuff. I've never seen him play before. I know him only from his appearances on NBA Today back in the 90's. I feel like he was heavier at that point. He sure looks explosive back in the day though.

[SilkkTheShocker]

The OP's gimmick is so old. Get a life, clown

[jongib369]

I remember seeing something about the courts today having a little more bounce/cushion to it as well...while back then it was a slab of wood over concrete...any truth to this? And would it even affect jumping

[CavaliersFTW]

The OP's gimmick is so old. Get a life, clown
Your bars are on fire :eek: , wonder why?

[get these NETS]

The nutrition part is ridiculous. You think these ghetto stars were getting a good diet? Fast food isn't gonna make you jump higher
and what gated community do YOU live in?

[chazzy]

Damn, that was a PRIME Willis Reed looking at that dunk!

[KG215]

They could Sprint up to 23mph allegedly, that is not as fast as Usain who averaged 23mph but hit a top speed from 60-80m just under 28mph.

They were hitting 23 mph in their bare feet in mud. Put them in a pair of track spikes on a mondo track, and they're reaching Bolt's 28 mph, if not faster.

[NYK_Stan]

So basically, todays athletes are more athletic ?
No, they just have better training and technology on their side.

The athletes have ALWAYS been around. They just haven't always been this well maintained.

:facepalm at people who think human evolution happens in 1 or 2 generations

[Rake2204]

I remember seeing something about the courts today having a little more bounce/cushion to it as well...while back then it was a slab of wood over concrete...any truth to this? And would it even affect jumping
I think all sorts of things effect jumping, but it depends on the person as to whether one may consider those effects dramatic. For instance, even in 2012, I'm sure many of us know folks who could walk onto any given street court in a pair of flip flops and still hammer one through the hoop. Newer and better shoes alongside bouncier courts can only help, but it's not necessarily going to add eight inches to anyone's vertical.

[CavaliersFTW]

No, they just have better training and technology on their side.

The athletes have ALWAYS been around. They just haven't always been this well maintained.

:facepalm at people who think human evolution happens in 1 or 2 generations
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qqIPBr2Hq2k/T4phDWCPMNI/AAAAAAAADXw/8PcV1NpgJVQ/s0/nbaevolution.jpg

lol another classic argument against former NBA players

[jongib369]

No, they just have better training and technology on their side.

The athletes have ALWAYS been around. They just haven't always been this well maintained.

:facepalm at people who think human evolution happens in 1 or 2 generations
it actually can/does happen in one or two generations depending on the conditions, but just not causing a difference like some of these derpti think

[jongib369]

From the looks of things it's looks like some of us DEvolved into Homo Derpus


http://www.thesuperfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/olympic_divers_funny.jpg

[jongib369]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qqIPBr2Hq2k/T4phDWCPMNI/AAAAAAAADXw/8PcV1NpgJVQ/s0/nbaevolution.jpg

lol another classic argument against former NBA players


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :bowdown:

[ILLsmak]

:roll:


someone needs to make the SN anonymous neg. Just sayin'

and modern nutrition = better PEDs.

-Smak

[SpecialQue]

But players in the 60s and 70s didn't have

http://img2.timeinc.net/health/images/slides/super-food-400x400.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

But players in the 60s and 70s didn't have

http://img2.timeinc.net/health/images/slides/super-food-400x400.jpg
pshhhh that aint super food, THIS is super food

http://viralswagger.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/tacobell.jpg

Think how much nutrients are in that giant coke - no wonder Jerry West was so skinny. He didn't have all dat muscle building High-Fructose corn syrup pumping through his veins

[jbot]

that cameraman sucks. i don't consider it a posterization unless the defender actually goes for the block.

[bdreason]

The argument against the 60's has nothing to do with nutrition or fitness, and everything to do with the fact that the league was artificially filled with Caucasian players. Less than 50% of the league was African American in the mid/late60's (and way worse in the early 60's). Fast forward to todays game and African Americans make up more than 80% of the league. It's obvious because of the racial climate in the 60's, most owners did not want to promote African American players to the predominately Caucasian fan base. Only after African Americans (like Wilt) began to dominate the game, were owners finally forced to increase the % of African American players in order to compete.

[CavaliersFTW]

The argument against the 60's has nothing to do with nutrition or fitness, and everything to do with the fact that the league was artificially filled with Caucasian players. Less than 50% of the league was African American in the mid/late60's (and way worse in the early 60's). Fast forward to todays game and African Americans make up more than 80% of the league. It's obvious because of the racial climate in the 60's, most owners did not want to promote African American players to the predominately Caucasian fan base. Only after African Americans (like Wilt) began to dominate the game, were owners finally forced to increase the % of African American players in order to compete.
Are u kidding me? The arguments used against the 60's, 70's and even the 80's almost always incorporates posters rambling on about "better nutrition" and complaining about fitness/athleticism.

I only rarely hear any race arguments because it is as easy to shoot down as saying "Dirk / Nash / Love / 1986 Celtics" etc. Obviously less white AMERICANS play now vs then but the difference since the international boom isn't as great as you think it is. The ratio from the early 70's and now are about the same - and guess what, that's part of Wilt's era. The early - mid 60's was definitely a transition period but let's not pretend the best black players in the world weren't getting recruited to colleges and the NBA when Wilt played. The only ones in the early 60's that may or may not have been "passed up" for a more widely accepted white dude would have been bench scrub roleplayers and Wilt/Russ/Baylor changed all that anyways - the trend did not last - the NBA was very ahead of it's time when it came to opening doors to black athletes.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://youtu.be/9nqz-kxv_ow

Wonder what kinda monster he'd be had his momma not fed him so many vegetables/meat/potatoes from the grocery stores of that era and instead had access to more modern nutritional establishments like Burger King/Taco Bell

[Rake2204]

i don't consider it a posterization unless the defender actually goes for the block.
I actually have various stages of posterization, with Stage 1 being the most severe and Stage 3 being the lightest.

Stage 3 represents the dunk we almost saw here, where a defender doesn't contest and is more or less at the wrong place at the wrong time. I think Reed may have been a little too far out of the picture for that. I figure, even if just standing by, defenders could still literally find themselves on a poster.

Stage 2 I usually devote to dunks where the defenders jumps to challenge or attempts to strip but mistimes their leap and never makes solid contact with the dunker.

Stage 1's are reserved for full-fledged dirty facials, like Baron Davis on Andrei Kirilenko.

[abuC]

They were hitting 23 mph in their bare feet in mud. Put them in a pair of track spikes on a mondo track, and they're reaching Bolt's 28 mph, if not faster.



No they wouldn't.


If there's no radar or actual means of timing them you can't say what speed they ran. If it were that simple to run as fast as Bolt just get some random modern aborigines that live in the bush and you should have a world record holder, right?

[CavaliersFTW]

No they wouldn't.


If there's no radar or actual means of timing them you can't say what speed they ran. If it were that simple to run as fast as Bolt just get some random modern aborigines that live in the bush and you should have a world record holder, right?
I love how you think you can debunk anthropologists that analyzed field data to write a scientific paper w/o ever looking at any of their data yourself.... :roll:

U must be super duper smart

[CavaliersFTW]

http://youtu.be/0gKjEKroCPg

what an interesting paradox... "modern athleticism" despite receiving the eras poor nutrients

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://youtu.be/0gKjEKroCPg

what an interesting paradox... "modern athleticism" despite receiving the eras poor nutrients

Now that's a sick dunk. :applause:

[senelcoolidge]

Greg Smith and Randy Smith. Wow, very nice. I liked Greg Smith. Those early 70's Bucks teams were really good. Randy Smith (R.I.P.) was super athletic and a darn good player. Underrated.

[KG215]

No they wouldn't.


If there's no radar or actual means of timing them you can't say what speed they ran. If it were that simple to run as fast as Bolt just get some random modern aborigines that live in the bush and you should have a world record holder, right?

I'm just going by what the data the writer put in his book. In something else I read, I think he said those aborigines reached speeds of up to a speed four kilometers an hour slower than Bolt, despite running barefoot in mud; he said in shoes on a modern day track surface they could probably reach speeds up to five kilometers an hour faster than Bolt.

I agree, with out anything around at the time to actually measure their speed, it's hard to say that he's 100% correct. However, he's probably not too far off at the very least.

As for the part about taking modern aborigines, the whole basis of his book is that this is the weakest era of the human race, ever. So these same aborigines, if he's correct, wouldn't be as fast as their ancestors from 30,000-50,000 years ago.

[jongib369]

http://youtu.be/0gKjEKroCPg

what an interesting paradox... "modern athleticism" despite receiving the eras poor nutrients
oh wow! Better than the original dunk you posted


:applause:

(to bad the camera man messed up in the OP)