Wilt Chamberlain would average "25 and 15, EASY"

[jongib369]

Steve Smith in a video honoring Wilt Chamberlains birthday 2 days ago said he would average 25 and 15 EASY.

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2012/08/21/20120821_wilt_birthday.nba


My opinion? Depending on his role, if it was the same as it was with the 76ers, not the main scoring option it seems reasonable. Number 1 scoring option being 34-38. (Could be more but NO ONE gets more than 28 touches today..Ala Jordan, Kobe, Iverson) But only 15 rebounds? Now this isn't a knock on love, an amazing rebounder is an amazing rebounder...but, being only 6'7 1/2 without the inflated height, and not being anything 'special' (I say that loosely) athletically or measurement wise getting 15.2? I'm going to guess Chamberlain would AT LEAST get Dennis Rodman numbers.

What do you guys think? Does it seem reasonable?


I know you guys have probably seen this, but this video of kevin love is hilarious... Love VS SUMO

I :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: @ 1:16...pause and look at his face

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsUJCpMJ8Gw


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of people don't like my posts so Ill leave you with a joke

"pedophiles are fu.cking immature assholes"


And


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&psj=1&q=Wilt%20Chamberlain%20archive&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1346&bih=828&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=cr81ULDJFYP7ygHCn4GIDg#um=1&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=hot+women&oq=hot+women&gs_l=img.3...413827.415164.0.415317.9.9.0.0.0.0.21 9.1195.3j5j1.9.0...0.0...1c.k51rF4YbPz0&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=e2b603a68a6ebe4a&biw=1346&bih=828



:cheers:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I think he would be like Shaq. Maybe better on D though.

[LosBulls]

Stfu

[kennethgriffin]

ive always been a firm believer that big men would transition 10000 times easier into todays nba than a guard/small forward would

guys like jerry west wouldnt stand a chance with 1 handed dribbles and no break down moves. he would be turned into a spot up shooter at best

the guards of today would break the sH(i)t out of his ankles too


some big men on the other hand never really relied much on skill and did mostly everything with athletic ability, size and timing

wilt would easly be one of the best players if he was put into todays nba

he would average around 27/16... about what steve smith said


people forget the rules are different now and he would be doubled every time he touched the ball almost... the rules arnt made for bigs to dominate today


he'd never come close to scoring 100 or averaging 50... but he would be arguably the MVP of the nba if placed into todays league.

[jongib369]

Stfu
Me? No. You? probably should. 2,551 posts and only 1 green rep? Looks like you've never posted anything of value/ are a rude asshole all the time. Don't like my posts, just move on lol

[KOBE143]

Poor man's Javale Mcgee at best..

[jongib369]

ive always been a firm believer that big men would transition 10000 times easier into todays nba than a guard/small forward would

guys like jerry west wouldnt stand a chance with 1 handed dribbles and no break down moves. he would be turned into a spot up shooter at best

the guards of today would break the sH(i)t out of his ankles too


some big men on the other hand never really relied much on skill and did mostly everything with athletic ability, size and timing

wilt would easly be one of the best players if he was put into todays nba

he would average around 27/16... about what steve smith said


people forget the rules are different now and he would be doubled every time he touched the ball almost... the rules arnt made for bigs to dominate today


he'd never come close to scoring 100 or averaging 50... but he would be arguably the MVP of the nba if placed into todays league.
Thanks for the post, although I disagree with your assessment on Jerry ( he wasn't the best with his left, but it was preferred to use your strong hand back then. And dribbling rules were more tight to begin with so in today's game/training he would be a LOT fancier with the ball. And he could use iut when need be) And he was known for his defense as well so IMO he would adjust great as well. BUT that's just my opinion so anyone of us could be right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rjREaql2U that's very impressive to me. His shot is beautiful

I agree that NBA rules are MADE to hurt big men today (He had to deal with that back then also because of the NBA trying to curtail his dominance which is well known) But the double teams wouldn't effect him as much as you may think. I've seen footage of him in college with literally 3 to 4 guys surrounding him...And when he was the main scoring option relied upn to shoot as much as he did, the celtics for example SWARMED him. But later on when he was asked to change his role, they stopped because they knew he'd just pass it out to someone on that amazing 76er squad

If you want, here is a video of Wilt on the lakers going against the Bulls. Some GREAT passes in this that would be a pain in a ass to deal with if you started doubling him. Just like Shaq, but possibly to an even bigger extent.

Once again thanks for the post and offering up something of value unlike
Losbulls

[senelcoolidge]

Of course Wilt would dominate in today's game. Especially with the clown big men in the league today. Easily lead the league in rebounding and could lead the league in scoring if he wanted to. He'd also lead the league in blocked shots, probably field goal percentage, and be the top passing big man.

[jongib369]

Poor man's Javale Mcgee at best..


I actually agree with you on that. if a surgeon removed 98% of his brain and lost 90 % of his strength and a host of other things. That's VERY reasonable


:applause:

[jongib369]

I think he would be like Shaq. Maybe better on D though.
Very reasonable it's all what ifs.. Personally I'd say a Rich Man's Shaq. Thanks for posting something with some value unlike some people

[SyRyanYang]

He'll have a couple of seasons averaging 30+/20/5+bls, easy

[jongib369]

He'll have a couple of seasons averaging 30+/20/5+bls, easy
Thanks for the post! I can see him putting those numbers up. 20 would be my TOP guesstimate for rebounds, but I said Dennis's 18 range just to not get a bunch of trolls shit on my opinion lol

[jlauber]

Not only did Love average 15.2 rpg, but it came in 35.8 mpg, in an NBA that averaged 41.4 rpg per team.

To give you an idea of Chamberlain's capability, a 36 year old Wilt, in his LAST post-season, averaged 22.5 rpg in 17 playoff games, in an NBA post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg. Furthermore, he outrebounded the league's second best rebounder H2H that post-season, the 6-11 Thurmond (who had a higher standing reach than Wilt BTW) by a 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg margin (hell, a PRIME Kareem, in the SAME post-season, averaged 16.2 rpg against Thurmond.) That 22.5 rpg ould have translated to nearly 19 rpg in LAST year's post-season!

Now, once again, that was a 36 year old Chamberlain, and on a surgically repaired knee. Just what in the hell would a PRIME Wilt have been capable of? A PRIME Chamberlain who had THREE entire seasons of leading the NBA in scoring, rebounding, and FG%, at the SAME time?

Of course, we are constantly reminded of "pace" with any of Wilt's records...yet, he was basically the ONLY guy putting up those HUGE numbers. How about this...




Career 60+ point games:

The rest of the NBA, in it's entire history, had 30 60+ point games...COMBINED.

How about Wilt? 32. The next best players, Kobe and MJ, each had FIVE.


Career 70+ point games:

Aside from Wilt...FOUR (with no player having more than one.)

Wilt? SIX.



Career 30-30 games:

Aside from Chamberlain, there have been 36 30-30 games in NBA history, and Russell is the leader of that group, with 7 (Bellamy and Thurmond are next with 3 each.)

How about Wilt? 132.


40-30 (or 30-40) games: Other than Wilt, the NBA has had 9 40-30 games, with Baylor being the only player to have 2.

Chamberlain? 73


50-30 games: Pettit and Baylor each with 1

Wilt? 32


60-20 games: Aside from Wilt, there have been four (Baylor with 3 and Shaq with 1)

Chamberlain? 28


60-30 games: Baylor with 1

Wilt? 8


40-40 games: There have been 8 in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain had all of them.


50-40 games: Obviously, Wilt would be the only player to have ever have accomplsihed that feat, which he did 5 times.


70-30 games: Chamberlain has the only 2, 78-43 and 73-36 (against Bellamy.)

[inclinerator]

http://i.imgur.com/OelVq.gif

[jongib369]

Not only did Love average 15.2 rpg, but it came in 35.8 mpg, in an NBA that averaged 41.4 rpg per team.

To give you an idea of Chamberlain's capability, a 36 year old Wilt, in his LAST post-season, averaged 22.5 rpg in 17 playoff games, in an NBA post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg. Furthermore, he outrebounded the league's second best rebounder H2H that post-season, the 6-11 Thurmond (who had a higher standing reach than Wilt BTW) by a 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg margin (hell, a PRIME Kareem, in the SAME post-season, averaged 16.2 rpg against Thurmond.) That 22.5 rpg ould have translated to nearly 19 rpg in LAST year's post-season!

Now, once again, that was a 36 year old Chamberlain, and on a surgically repaired knee. Just what in the hell would a PRIME Wilt have been capable of? A PRIME Chamberlain who had THREE entire seasons of leading the NBA in scoring, rebounding, and FG%, at the SAME time?

Of course, we are constantly reminded of "pace" with any of Wilt's records...yet, he was basically the ONLY guy putting up those HUGE numbers. How about this...
Thanks for the great post! It's interesting see that his RPG translate to about what I assume he would average today.

And the most impressive stat from what you posted IMO is the

73-36 against a HOF player Bellamy...How many players can say they dominated a HOF player like that??...People tout kobe's 81 over Wilts 100 because of "competition"....Ill take Jordan's 63 point game against the Celtics, Wilts 73 against Bellamy, and even Kobe's 62 point game vs the Mavs over his 81 anyday

:bowdown:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/293/675/WaltBellamy_display_image.jpg?1278819905

[jongib369]

http://i.imgur.com/OelVq.gif
LMFAO I have no idea what you are trying to say with that...but its hilarious/sad

[Deuce Bigalow]

'11 Love: 15.2 rpg/41.4 league average rpg = 36.7%
Love only averaged 35.8 mpg

'61 Wilt: 27.2 rpg/73.3 league average rpg = 37.1%
Wilt averaged 47.8 mpg

Nobody plays 48 mpg anymore. Wilt would most likely average 40 mpg.
At 40 mpg his rpg would be 12.8 and his rpg% would be 30.92

[Round Mound]

Chamberlain was and is the GOAT Center.

[bdreason]

25/15 was actually right around my guess. I think the scoring could be lower, and the rebounding a little higher depending on the team he's playing on. Is there a single team in the league that evens pounds the ball inside anymore?

[kennethgriffin]

Chamberlain was and is the GOAT Center.

tallent wise. but he was kind of a choker

i give him major props on how he could easly transition into todays game

but no way is he the best center ever

kareem/russell are ranked higher


believe it or not ( i know you dont because you're a fan of charles barkley )


accomplishing things MATTERS

its not all about stats. you gotta have IQ, Heart, Poise and be willing to sacrifice your own stats to better your team sometimes

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/gtwhhjnhjhhhhh.png

[jlauber]

'11 Love: 15.2 rpg/41.4 league average rpg = 36.7%
Love only averaged 35.8 mpg

'61 Wilt: 27.2 rpg/73.3 league average rpg = 37.1%
Wilt averaged 47.8 mpg

Nobody plays 48 mpg anymore. Wilt would most likely average 40 mpg.
At 40 mpg his rpg would be 12.8 and his rpg% would be 30.92

First of all, there has NEVER been an NBA team that ever averaged even 70 rpg. TEAM rebounds were kept before the 68-69 season, and inflated TEAM totals by about 8-10 rpg. The AVERAGE team was getting about 64 rpg in Wilt's '61 season.

Secondly, Chamberlain, according to stats maven Harvey Pollack was probably blocking somewhere aroun 10 shots per game, at his peak. And, if that was indeed the case, he was probably chasing after another 10 or so every game. How many rebounds did he lose with those numbers?

Finally, no matter what his actual numbers would be, Chamberlain DESTROYED his peers in rebounding, including players like Russell, Thurmond, Lanier, Cowens, Hayes, and Kareem. If he could wipe the floors with those guys, he would be having a field day against the MANY clowns who permeate today's center position.

[Bigsmoke]

He'll have a couple of seasons averaging 30+/20/5+bls, easy

i dont know about 20 rebounds.

the pace back then was much quicker than it is now.

i'm thinkg

27/14/3

[jlauber]

i dont know about 20 rebounds.

the pace back then was much quicker than it is now.

i'm thinkg

27/14/3

So players like the 6-9 Howard and Love would be outrebounding a near 7-2, 300 lb, 7-8 wingspan, highjump champion, Chamberlain, then?

[East_Stone_Ya]

So players like the 6-9 Howard and Love would be outrebounding a near 7-2, 300 lb, 7-8 wingspan, highjump champion, Chamberlain, then?

with ease :pimp:

[jlauber]

It would be interesting to find out just how many games Chamberlain was outrebounded in his 1200 career NBA games. It wouldn't have been very many. And in many he just murdered his opposing center. Hell, he pounded RUSSELL in one game by a 55-19 margin.

[Vertical-24]

He'll have a couple of seasons averaging 30+/20/5+bls, easy

I appreciate Wilt and his accomplishments and contributions to the game as much as any other sincere basketball fan but that seems a little to fantastical IMO. I could see him perhaps doing 30-32ppg / 15rpg / 3bpg in a few seasons but not what you posted, that's ridiculous

[lilgodfather1]

I'm thinking somewhere around 27ppg because bigs aren't really the focal point of the offense anymore. As for the rebounds I literally have no idea how many he could grab. He is the best rebounder ever (bar maybe Rodman), so I don't think it is rediculous to assume he could get 17 a game even at the slower pace in todays league.

[JMT]

Wilt would average whatever he wanted to average in any era.

Unless you actually saw the guy play and have lived long enough to fully understand the evolution of athletes, training, nutrition, etc, it would be very difficult to understand just what a freak he was.

He's the best big man that ever lived, and he'd have been the best in any era he played.

[CavaliersFTW]

I appreciate Wilt and his accomplishments and contributions to the game as much as any other sincere basketball fan but that seems a little to fantastical IMO. I could see him perhaps doing 30-32ppg / 15rpg / 3bpg in a few seasons but not what you posted, that's ridiculous
He's right bout the shot blocking number, no way in hell Wilt blocks 3bpg in his prime even in the modern NBA. Wilt's shot blocking volume is incredible, he blocked at a rate of about 7bpg in 1972. No matter how you do the math for pace, fg%, shots taken etc it isn't going to be less than 4bpg today and that was past his prime Wilt. His timing and reach combo is far beyond anyone in the league today. 9-7, and timed well enough to catch shots in mid-air or swat a Kareem skyhook?

[Dragonyeuw]

With today's dearth of quality centers? Those numbers are at the extreme low-end. I wouldn't go any lower than 18 rpg....scoring-wise, the game has shifted more to the perimeter but Wilt is definitely capable of 30 in this era. Who's going to stop him inside? Wilt would make even Dwight Howard look small, and Dwight's considered a monster by today's standards.

[CavaliersFTW]

With today's dearth of quality centers? Those numbers are at the extreme low-end. I wouldn't go any lower than 18 rpg....scoring-wise, the game has shifted more to the perimeter but Wilt is definitely capable of 30 in this era. Who's going to stop him inside? Wilt would make even Dwight Howard look small, and Dwight's considered a monster by today's standards.

^--- Seriously. Dwight Howard is actually shorter than Bill Russell, and instead of facing him 8+ times a year plus Thurmond/Reed/Jabbar etc it'd be Dwight + Bynum like 3 times a year each. Wilt would be victimizing the leagues Glen "big baby" Davis', and Joel Anthony's like it was criminal

90 percent of the leagues centers right now are no better than the roleplayer bigs Wilt faced in the earliest part of the 60's.... IE, his 37-50ppg era... only thing that's different is pace. Sh*t would be painful to watch if it was your team he was playing against.

[Bigsmoke]

So players like the 6-9 Howard and Love would be outrebounding a near 7-2, 300 lb, 7-8 wingspan, highjump champion, Chamberlain, then?

basically.

Shaq and David Robinson couldnt rebounds like Dwight and Love could either. Shaq is the stongest to ever play the game at 7'1 and Robinson was 7'1 with the 35 vertical jump as a guard.

[ILLsmak]

http://i.imgur.com/OelVq.gif

hahahaha

-Smak

[millwad]

He's right bout the shot blocking number, no way in hell Wilt blocks 3bpg in his prime even in the modern NBA. Wilt's shot blocking volume is incredible, he blocked at a rate of about 7bpg in 1972. No matter how you do the math for pace, fg%, shots taken etc it isn't going to be less than 4bpg today and that was past his prime Wilt. His timing and reach combo is far beyond anyone in the league today. 9-7, and timed well enough to catch shots in mid-air or swat a Kareem skyhook?

Source?

I personally think that he'd with ease would average the most blocks in the modern era but no where close to what he was doing back in his own era.

Regarding his other stats, his 22.9 rebound average would be lower, no doubt. First of all, less competition from the guard and forward position and less athletic players (not including the center position) and way worse FG% and more shot attempts really made Wilt's rebounding stats look unreal. Even a guy like Elgin Baylor had two seasons where he averaged more than 18 rebounds per game.

I think a career average of 15 rebounds per game seems like a pretty logical number. He wouldn't play 46 minutes per game, I'd guess he'd average 40 minutes per game which still is extreme for a center. His average would go down to 19.9 rebounds if he'd average 40 minutes per game and in the modern era he'd have more competition from more athletic guards, less available rebounds due way better FG% and a slower pace.

And before you mention Kevin Love or any other statpadder, realize that Wilt would do it all on the court, passing, shotblocking, rebounding, scoring and defending. Love barely plays any defense which gives him way more room to focus on rebounds.

And regarding his scoring, per 40 minutes he'd average around 26 points per game and considering that the modern era is played at a slower pace with defensive schemes and more double teams and Wilt not being able to have anything alike his 50 points season I think his point per game average over his career would be like 23-24 points per game.

And his assists would be lower as well, he played in an era where they played at a higher pace with more possessions every game. Wilt's 40 minute per game average would give him a 3.8 assist per game average and with less possessions every game I think he'd average a 3.3 asists per game over his career. Also consider that he wouldn't be able to have two seasons where would average more than 7.8 assists per game which also drags his career average down.

So in the regular season over his WHOLE career I guess he'd average 23-24 points per game, 15 rebounds, 3.5-4 blocks and 3.3 assists per game.

In the playoffs based on a 40 minute (he averaged 47 min per game) per game average he'd average; 19 points per game, 21 rebounds and 3.5 assists.

His rebounding would obviously not be as high as 21 rebounds per game, I think 16 rebounds per game would be realistic. His scoring in his prime would be higher obviously but based on his career average he'd average 19 points per game in the playoffs and I would let it be like that and his 3.5 assists per game sounds logical too.

Obviously Wilt and some of the old school players have inflated stats, especially when it comes to rebounding and minutes per game and Wilt looks way more human with a 40 minute per game average both in the regular season and the playoffs. A player like Jordan averaged 38 minutes per game, Kobe averages 36.5 minutes per game and the elite today play way less minutes and so would Wilt do as well.

What do you guys think about this post?

[fpliii]

I don't know what he'd put up, but I believe there's a rebounding ceiling in today's game. I'm not sure where the wall is, but I can't see anybody in league history averaging much more than 17 rebounds in standard minutes if they're dropped into the league today.

[jongib369]

Source?

I personally think that he'd with ease would average the most blocks in the modern era but no where close to what he was doing back in his own era.

Regarding his other stats, his 22.9 rebound average would be lower, no doubt. First of all, less competition from the guard and forward position and less athletic players (not including the center position) and way worse FG% and more shot attempts really made Wilt's rebounding stats look unreal. Even a guy like Elgin Baylor had two seasons where he averaged more than 18 rebounds per game.

I think a career average of 15 rebounds per game seems like a pretty logical number. He wouldn't play 46 minutes per game, I'd guess he'd average 40 minutes per game which still is extreme for a center. His average would go down to 19.9 rebounds if he'd average 40 minutes per game and in the modern era he'd have more competition from more athletic guards, less available rebounds due way better FG% and a slower pace.

And before you mention Kevin Love or any other statpadder, realize that Wilt would do it all on the court, passing, shotblocking, rebounding, scoring and defending. Love barely plays any defense which gives him way more room to focus on rebounds.

And regarding his scoring, per 40 minutes he'd average around 26 points per game and considering that the modern era is played at a slower pace with defensive schemes and more double teams and Wilt not being able to have anything alike his 50 points season I think his point per game average over his career would be like 23-24 points per game.

And his assists would be lower as well, he played in an era where they played at a higher pace with more possessions every game. Wilt's 40 minute per game average would give him a 3.8 assist per game average and with less possessions every game I think he'd average a 3.3 asists per game over his career. Also consider that he wouldn't be able to have two seasons where would average more than 7.8 assists per game which also drags his career average down.

So in the regular season over his WHOLE career I guess he'd average 23-24 points per game, 15 rebounds, 3.5-4 blocks and 3.3 assists per game.

In the playoffs based on a 40 minute (he averaged 47 min per game) per game average he'd average; 19 points per game, 21 rebounds and 3.5 assists.

His rebounding would obviously not be as high as 21 rebounds per game, I think 16 rebounds per game would be realistic. His scoring in his prime would be higher obviously but based on his career average he'd average 19 points per game in the playoffs and I would let it be like that and his 3.5 assists per game sounds logical too.

Obviously Wilt and some of the old school players have inflated stats, especially when it comes to rebounding and minutes per game and Wilt looks way more human with a 40 minute per game average both in the regular season and the playoffs. A player like Jordan averaged 38 minutes per game, Kobe averages 36.5 minutes per game and the elite today play way less minutes and so would Wilt do as well.

What do you guys think about this post?
I like it for the reason that your not saying he would be a scrub like a lot of ignorant ISH posters...you at least go into depth about your opinion which is great. While we don't agree 100% on what he would average I'd say what my opinion is and what you say and in between would be a good guesstimate. What do you think his points would be at his peak if he was the number 1 scoring option? IMO being a more dangerous scoring threat than Shaq would open up a lot of assists for him...So Ill slightly raise his assists to 4 to possibly 5...IMO if Gasol can get 4.6 it's 'within reason. Idk if you've seen this video before but its a highlight of Lakers VS Bulls with some GREAT assist's by dip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuuMMu2z6Bs


and I would also see between Kevin Love and Dennis Rodman RPG.. depending on what his role is and how often he's going for blocks losing his position for rebounds

[Pointguard]

Source?

I personally think that he'd with ease would average the most blocks in the modern era but no where close to what he was doing back in his own era.

Regarding his other stats, his 22.9 rebound average would be lower, no doubt. First of all, less competition from the guard and forward position and less athletic players (not including the center position) and way worse FG% and more shot attempts really made Wilt's rebounding stats look unreal. Even a guy like Elgin Baylor had two seasons where he averaged more than 18 rebounds per game.

I think a career average of 15 rebounds per game seems like a pretty logical number. He wouldn't play 46 minutes per game, I'd guess he'd average 40 minutes per game which still is extreme for a center. His average would go down to 19.9 rebounds if he'd average 40 minutes per game and in the modern era he'd have more competition from more athletic guards, less available rebounds due way better FG% and a slower pace.

Its not crazy to say that Barkley and Rodman were the best rebounders in the modern era and Rodman averaged more than 18. Barkley is 6'4, Rodman 6'6. and Baylor 6'5. They were definitely better rebounders than Shaq and Yao who were giants in height and girth. Barkley was active in all aspects of the game as well. Wilt and Russell went after rebounds unlike any other centers in the history of the sport. They liked to rebound and did it great their whole careers. Unlike Kareem who hated it.



And before you mention Kevin Love or any other statpadder, realize that Wilt would do it all on the court, passing, shotblocking, rebounding, scoring and defending. Love barely plays any defense which gives him way more room to focus on rebounds.
Wilt could easily cheat on every center in the game now and just claim the same seven foot radius around the rim. Dwight cheats like crazy and he's at 14.5 rebs. You never hear DH is the best rebounder ever.



And regarding his scoring, per 40 minutes he'd average around 26 points per game and considering that the modern era is played at a slower pace with defensive schemes and more double teams and Wilt not being able to have anything alike his 50 points season I think his point per game average over his career would be like 23-24 points per game.

Wilt is a natural scorer. They are very rare. Few players can hit the 30 ppg mark at all. The ones that can break that barrier three or more times are on one hand. Those who can do it more than 5 times its only Chamberlain and Jordan. Its a threshold that only the elite can get too no matter what time in history. To average 40ppg over seven years means you got great skill. He averaged 35ppg over 24 straight playoff games with defenses just going "gung ho" on him and against teams that are highly ranked all time for defense. So he's in Lebron and Jordan scoring ability there. We can say it was easier for Wilt to score but to do it at unfathomable highs that Jordan could not come close to, don't happen to a guy unless he was very skilled and had great know how on how to score. The most prolific Kareem played against Chamberlain and he was a lot closer to averaging 20ppg for 7 years than 40.

So to say Wilt would average what Dwight Howard averaged, when he wasn't skilled or polished at all, and what Wilt averaged on a bouncy Kareem when Wilt didn't care to shoot anymore (well less than half the attempts he was shooting in his prime) is a bit of a stretch. 19ppg is way too low for a guy that demonstrated way too many feats that have lasted 50 years. He has more of scorer's mentality than DH (23ppg), way more dominance, way more skill, way more determination and way more will power. DH is not a natural scorer, nor much of a learned one. Wilt also had a better touch around the rim.

While I do think the zone and speed of perimeter players would slow him down some. The lack of defensive players, plethora of fast creative point guards and great shooters should also be in the formula in favor of Wilt. Wilt with a running, creative point guard would get a lot of easier baskets as well. Amare was a lot like DH when he averaged 26ppg. He basically got his points off of speed. Wilt would have all the same advantages as DH, Shaq and Amare collectively in today's game - only against worse competition today - tho I do think Wilt was more skilled and had a better shooting touch. There is no way the conversations starts below 29ppg, a good 10 points away from what you have.

[Helix]

Wilt would average whatever he wanted to average in any era.

Unless you actually saw the guy play and have lived long enough to fully understand the evolution of athletes, training, nutrition, etc, it would be very difficult to understand just what a freak he was.

He's the best big man that ever lived, and he'd have been the best in any era he played.


That is the correct answer.

[millwad]

Its not crazy to say that Barkley and Rodman were the best rebounders in the modern era and Rodman averaged more than 18. Barkley is 6'4, Rodman 6'6. and Baylor 6'5. They were definitely better rebounders than Shaq and Yao who were giants in height and girth. Barkley was active in all aspects of the game as well. Wilt and Russell went after rebounds unlike any other centers in the history of the sport. They liked to rebound and did it great their whole careers. Unlike Kareem who hated it.


How is that relevant to what I wrote?
And I find it ridiculous that in a try to hype up Chamberlain you midgetize Barkley. Since when was Barkley 6'4? Come on, soon people will call him 6'0..

I guess Barkley in this pic used high heels;

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-22y5HWiYv4w/TuDUVsfe4qI/AAAAAAAABuk/Yi_Eo6QdDaQ/s400/charles-barkley.jpg

And Rodman had no offense and he was a PF, all he did was to rebound and defend, when he liked to. And Barkley who was TALLER than 6'4 never came close to some of the rebounding numbers Baylor had, are you going to claim that rebounds weren't inflated back then? And what has Kareem to do with this? Seriously..



Wilt could easily cheat on every center in the game now and just claim the same seven foot radius around the rim. Dwight cheats like crazy and he's at 14.5 rebs. You never hear DH is the best rebounder ever.


What the hell, I was talking career average and I did it based on the fact that rebounding numbers were inflated compared to modern era due worse FG%, less athletic guards and faster pace.

And I was talking about career average, not prime. And Dwight's highest rebound per game average in a season is 14.5, his career average is 13 rebounds per game and that will go down when he gets older.



Wilt is a natural scorer. They are very rare. Few players can hit the 30 ppg mark at all. The ones that can break that barrier three or more times are on one hand. Those who can do it more than 5 times its only Chamberlain and Jordan. Its a threshold that only the elite can get too no matter what time in history. To average 40ppg over seven years means you got great skill. He averaged 35ppg over 24 straight playoff games with defenses just going "gung ho" on him and against teams that are highly ranked all time for defense. So he's in Lebron and Jordan scoring ability there. We can say it was easier for Wilt to score but to do it at unfathomable highs that Jordan could not come close to, don't happen to a guy unless he was very skilled and had great know how on how to score. The most prolific Kareem played against Chamberlain and he was a lot closer to averaging 20ppg for 7 years than 40.


Irrelevant.
I never said that he wasn't a natural scorer but you don't seem to understand that first of all, Wilt's minute per game average would go down and I'm even generous when I gave him a career average of 40 minutes per game when I tried to translate his number to the modern era. No players and especially no centers play 40 minutes per game as an average during their whole careers in the modern era. So I gave him 40 minutes anyway and his average based on 40 minute play would be 26 points and due defensive schemes, more double teams and slower pace I only took away 2-3 points as a career average. How is that unfair?



So to say Wilt would average what Dwight Howard averaged, when he wasn't skilled or polished at all, and what Wilt averaged on a bouncy Kareem when Wilt didn't care to shoot anymore (well less than half the attempts he was shooting in his prime) is a bit of a stretch. 19ppg is way too low for a guy that demonstrated way too many feats that have lasted 50 years. He has more of scorer's mentality than DH (23ppg), way more dominance, way more skill, way more determination and way more will power. DH is not a natural scorer, nor much of a learned one. Wilt also had a better touch around the rim.


Wilt in his own era had a career average of 22.5 points per game in the playoffs and that was over 47 minutes per game, something he never would have played in the modern era. I gave him a 40 minute average of playing time instead based on his OWN stats from his OWN era and based on that he'd AVERAGE 19 points. So you think that defensive schemes, more double teams, slower pace and a more guard owned ball game would do Wilt much greater based on scoring?



While I do think the zone and speed of perimeter players would slow him down some. The lack of defensive players, plethora of fast creative point guards and great shooters should also be in the formula in favor of Wilt. Wilt with a running, creative point guard would get a lot of easier baskets as well. Amare was a lot like DH when he averaged 26ppg. He basically got his points off of speed. Wilt would have all the same advantages as DH, Shaq and Amare collectively in today's game - only against worse competition today - tho I do think Wilt was more skilled and had a better shooting touch. There is no way the conversations starts below 29ppg, a good 10 points away from what you have.

Wilt did NOT have a better shooting touch than Amare, stop dreaming. And I wrote that I believe he'd average higher than 19 per game in the playoffs in his scoring prime but you got to realize that Wilt's career average in the playoffs when it came to scoring is not as impressive as you're trying to claim it was.

Per 36 minutes he had a lower career scoring average in the playoffs than Olajuwon, Shaq, Kareem, Tim Duncan, Patrick Ewing, Moses Malone, Willis Reed.. His regular season average is by far greater than all those guys, even on a 36 minute per game judgement.

With a 40 minute per game average he averaged about 19 points per game during his playoff career. What makes you believe that slower pace, more double teams, defensive schemes and playing in an era with way less touches for centers would make him so much greater on offense in the playoffs compared to what he was in his own era?

And yeah, so you basically think that he'd average 29 points per game (at least), probably a couple of rebounds higher than 15. It's real life basketball, it's not some video game and I don't understand why you think that this era would make him look even greater when it comes to stats? Please explain.

[jlauber]

Baylor's best season translates to about 13 rpg in today's NBA...which is just below the 6-5 Barkley's best season. The 6-8 Jerry Lucas' best season translates to about 14 rpg in today's NBA, which is just slightly less than the 6-9 (or shorter) Kevin Love's best season of 15 rpg.

Take Wilt's 27 rpg season, and it translates to about 18 rpg in today's NBA. Let him play against clowns in 75% of his game, tell him to cut back his shot blocks to 5+ instead of 10, and his rebounding numbers would go UP.

The bottom line...if Kevin Love can grab 15.2 rpg, in 35.8 mpg, in an NBA that averaged 41.4 rpg per team...a Wilt, who was just crushing his peers, and EASILY playing 43-44 mpg (hell, the man has the SEVEN highest MPG seasons in NBA history, and players like Lebron and Iverson were around 43 mpg within the last ten years)...Chamberlain would come close to 20 rpg.

As for scoring...I get a kick out of those that use his CAREER playoff scoring mark of 22.5 ppg as some kind of gauge on his scoring. The man had FOUR 50+ point playoffs games. He had FOUR playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg and 39 ppg. He had THREE playoff series, just against Russell of between 30-34 ppg (and another two at 28-29 ppg.) He had FOUR post-seasons of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. And, think about this... his 34.7 ppg playoff run came on .543 shooting, in a POST-SEASON NBA that only averaged 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting.

And the REALITY was, Chamberlain cut back his shooting by design (and poor designs in some cases...see the 1969 post-season.) How great a scorer was a "pre-injured" Wilt. In his 11th season, at age 33, he was LEADING the NBA in scoring at 32.2 ppg, on get this... .579 (as well as averaging 20.2 rpg),,,when he shredded his knee.

Of course, those that use SMALL sample playoff series, will point out Kareem's 35 ppg post-season in '77, in 11 playoff games. Well, Chamberlain was averaging 32 ppg in his first nine straight games in that '70 season. Interesting, too, that he poured in 38 against the reigning MVP, Wes Unseld, as well as 42 against the very talented Bob Rule, and get this...he dumped 43 on Connie Dierking in one of those nine games (this, only a year after shelling him for 60 points in a game.) Why is 43 point game interesting? Kareem faced Dierking multiple times in his career, and his high game against him was 41 points. Oh, and Chamberlain outscored Kareem, 25-23, and outshot him, 9-14 to 9-21, in their one H2H that season, as well.

That from a Chamberlain who was past his peak "scoring" seasons.

BTW, Wilt averaged 50.4 ppg in an NBA that averaged 118.8 ppg. Doing simple math, that translates to 41 ppg in this PAST season (the NBA averaged 96.3 ppg in a season of a condensed scheduling.)

[PistolPete44]

Ban the LosBulls Mods

[millwad]

Ban the LosBulls Mods

You're the one who should get banned, do you always PM stuff like this to people when you don't agree with them?


I hope cancer gets your mom mang

I mean wilt chamberlain is ****ing dead and you hate him with a passion?
Dude helped shaped NBA mang
You deserved cancer, not some innocent old men / smokers

I sure gave you a reply you deserved, but you sir, you're a pathetic human being and being that angry and wishing that someone's mother should get cancer because they don't agree with you when it comes to basketball, that's beyond pathetic and makes you a worthless and shitty person.

Your mother must be ashamed of the fact that her son is such a worthless individual.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You're the one who should get banned, do you always PM stuff like this to people when you don't agree with them?



I sure gave you a reply you deserved, but you sir, you're a pathetic human being and being that angry and wishing that someone's mother should get cancer because they don't agree with you when it comes to basketball, that's beyond pathetic and makes you a worthless and shitty person.

Your mother must be ashamed of the fact that her son is such a worthless individual.
Here's the PMs he sent me


YOU ARE PATHETIC


Stress is not a good thing for elders, so take it easy. No need to be mad.
YOU NEED TO DIE MAN I HATE READING YOUR POSTS AND U ARE A BIASED KOBRICK STAN
AOPISEHFOAUISDFHOUAFUAEHGOUHEGO UKJOBROICK STANS I HOPE KOBE FANS DIE
PIOJOPERJIO$ITJ)358972984739283479287(*#$&(*#&$(*#&$(*)#$&(




Stop being mad. It's not healthy for your age.
Get ****ED I DONT WANT TO SEE UR NAME AGAIN ****ING KID I FIUUK U ****
Calm down and take your pills senior
you should stop making enemies here too...
Then he's like I wont bother you again

[-23-]

Baylor's best season translates to about 13 rpg in today's NBA...which is just below the 6-5 Barkley's best season. The 6-8 Jerry Lucas' best season translates to about 14 rpg in today's NBA, which is just slightly less than the 6-9 (or shorter) Kevin Love's best season of 15 rpg.

Take Wilt's 27 rpg season, and it translates to about 18 rpg in today's NBA. Let him play against clowns in 75% of his game, tell him to cut back his shot blocks to 5+ instead of 10, and his rebounding numbers would go UP.

The bottom line...if Kevin Love can grab 15.2 rpg, in 35.8 mpg, in an NBA that averaged 41.4 rpg per team...a Wilt, who was just crushing his peers, and EASILY playing 43-44 mpg (hell, the man has the SEVEN highest MPG seasons in NBA history, and players like Lebron and Iverson were around 43 mpg within the last ten years)...Chamberlain would come close to 20 rpg.

As for scoring...I get a kick out of those that use his CAREER playoff scoring mark of 22.5 ppg as some kind of gauge on his scoring. The man had FOUR 50+ point playoffs games. He had FOUR playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg and 39 ppg. He had THREE playoff series, just against Russell of between 30-34 ppg (and another two at 28-29 ppg.) He had FOUR post-seasons of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. And, think about this... his 34.7 ppg playoff run came on .543 shooting, in a POST-SEASON NBA that only averaged 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting.

And the REALITY was, Chamberlain cut back his shooting by design (and poor designs in some cases...see the 1969 post-season.) How great a scorer was a "pre-injured" Wilt. In his 11th season, at age 33, he was LEADING the NBA in scoring at 32.2 ppg, on get this... .579 (as well as averaging 20.2 rpg),,,when he shredded his knee.

Of course, those that use SMALL sample playoff series, will point out Kareem's 35 ppg post-season in '77, in 11 playoff games. Well, Chamberlain was averaging 32 ppg in his first nine straight games in that '70 season. Interesting, too, that he poured in 38 against the reigning MVP, Wes Unseld, as well as 42 against the very talented Bob Rule, and get this...he dumped 43 on Connie Dierking in one of those nine games (this, only a year after shelling him for 60 points in a game.) Why is 43 point game interesting? Kareem faced Dierking multiple times in his career, and his high game against him was 41 points. Oh, and Chamberlain outscored Kareem, 25-23, and outshot him, 9-14 to 9-21, in their one H2H that season, as well.

That from a Chamberlain who was past his peak "scoring" seasons.

BTW, Wilt averaged 50.4 ppg in an NBA that averaged 118.8 ppg. Doing simple math, that translates to 41 ppg in this PAST season (the NBA averaged 96.3 ppg in a season of a condensed scheduling.)

No coach would let a player play 44+ mpg in todays league. What's so hard to understand?

[millwad]

Here's the PMs he sent me




Then he's like I wont bother you again

Something is really wrong with him, what a worthless and sad human being. Telling people that they should die or that their mother's should get cancer because they don't agree with him when it comes to a bouncing ball.

Probably some really lonely and depressed guy without any real life what so ever, protecting a basketball player and getting that butthurt just because someone doesn't agree with him.. :facepalm

[Round Mound]

http://guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Charles-Barkley-and-Michael-Jordan.jpghttp://www.basketballphoto.com/Photos/Michael-Jordan-30924.jpg
http://asubi.mn/images/asu/1103300209.jpghttp://2daysports.com/img/articles/images/barkley-calls-out-jordan.jpg


[B]Barkley was 6`4 3/4 or 1,95 mt same as Jordan. Still people don`t believe it after so many years? :facepalm:rolleyes:

PEOPLE CHECK OUT THE GAMES 1st and Compare Him To Other Players like that of Thunder Dan, Mark Aguirre or Chris Mullin who where Legit 6

[Pointguard]

How is that relevant to what I wrote? Did I bring up Baylor or did you? Do you know why you brought up Baylor? Was I wrong in getting your innuendo?


And I find it ridiculous that in a try to hype up Chamberlain you midgetize Barkley. Since when was Barkley 6'4? Come on, soon people will call him 6'0
I guess Barkley in this pic used high heels;

Barkley could be wearing a healed shoe and gels. Comon, a police lineup?
Barkley himself proclaims he's not 6'5 all the time. Google Jordan and Barkley images. Shouldn't Barkley be taller in one picture???



And Rodman had no offense and he was a PF, all he did was to rebound and defend, when he liked to. And Barkley who was TALLER than 6'4 never came close to some of the rebounding numbers Baylor had, are you going to claim that rebounds weren't inflated back then? And what has Kareem to do with this? Seriously..
I never said the numbers weren't somewhat inflated. The point which escaped you, because you gone got mad hyper, is that your innuendo that Baylor had 18 rebounds per game as if everybody could do it at that time. I bring in Barkley and Rodman to show that height is no factor. Desire to get the rebound is the major factor. A guy like Kareem could get 16rpg on a couple of ocassions when he put his mind to it but his desire wasn't there to do it six or seven years. Every year Wilt averaged a tremendous number because he was flat out dedicated to getting boards. Only Russell has 10 plus great years of rebounding like Wilt and they have like 16 years of proof each. By comparison the other great rebounders aren't always in the mood.


What the hell, I was talking career average and I did it based on the fact that rebounding numbers were inflated compared to modern era due worse FG%, less athletic guards and faster pace.

And I was talking about career average, not prime. And Dwight's highest rebound per game average in a season is 14.5, his career average is 13 rebounds per game and that will go down when he gets older.

Show me where I said otherwise. You keep acting like I am arguing with you and I'm not. I'm just giving you a counter point of view because, basically, you asked for it. If you slow down and stop being defensive you will see that I'm not going at you.




Originally Posted by Pointguard

Wilt is a natural scorer. They are very rare. Few players can hit the 30 ppg mark at all. The ones that can break that barrier three or more times are on one hand. Those who can do it more than 5 times its only Chamberlain and Jordan. Its a threshold that only the elite can get too no matter what time in history. To average 40ppg over seven years means you got great skill. He averaged 35ppg over 24 straight playoff games with defenses just going "gung ho" on him and against teams that are highly ranked all time for defense. So he's in Lebron and Jordan scoring ability there. We can say it was easier for Wilt to score but to do it at unfathomable highs that Jordan could not come close to, don't happen to a guy unless he was very skilled and had great know how on how to score. The most prolific Kareem played against Chamberlain and he was a lot closer to averaging 20ppg for 7 years than 40.

Irrelevant.
I never said that he wasn't a natural scorer but you don't seem to understand that first of all, Wilt's minute per game average would go down and I'm even generous when I gave him a career average of 40 minutes per game when I tried to translate his number to the modern era. No players and especially no centers play 40 minutes per game as an average during their whole careers in the modern era. So I gave him 40 minutes anyway and his average based on 40 minute play would be 26 points and due defensive schemes, more double teams and slower pace I only took away 2-3points as a career average. How is that unfair?

Irrelevant??? Its all relevant. You don't factor in a scorer's mentality? You don't factor in skill level? You don't factor in domination? Scoring ability? Easy basket points? Natural propensity? The defense's reputation? when you compare a scorer's ability??? You think its only about pace? I never said you were off in your estimation.



Wilt in his own era had a career average of 22.5 points per game in the playoffs and that was over 47 minutes per game, something he never would have played in the modern era. I gave him a 40 minute average of playing time instead based on his OWN stats from his OWN era and based on that he'd AVERAGE 19 points. So you think that defensive schemes, more double teams, slower pace and a more guard owned ball game would do Wilt much greater based on scoring?

Once again I never said you were wrong in any of your estimations but I did provide a counter, because you asked for feedback. Wilt would never be used the way he was back then. Hakeem and Shaq were the primary features of their careers as long as they could rebound which was about 12 years. Wilt was featured for about six or seven years but was among the best rebounder for all 16 years. Wilt was such a freak he was ahead of his coaching curve. Today there would be no what do we do with him? How does the game handle extensive domination? What role do the other guys play? Should we recruit shooters? Should we recruit fast guys or defensive guys? There would be one Wilt - a defensive player and offensive player rather than making him two separate players. You think they would say lets stop going to Shaq as the main guy seven years into his career to see if he could be Bill Russell in his prime??? Could you imagine that just before the three peat.

Wilt would be used a lot like Shaq and if he had Nash or D Will you mix in an Amare speed game. The game simply wasn't ready for Wilt at that time so he got waisted big time. The coaches weren't ready for dealing with whole teams trying to stop one guy because that problem never existed before. He couldn't be maximized because he wasn't concieved of before he came. So to control what was beyond their understanding they flat out made him a number two guy. If you have a great strenght you maximize it unless you are under pressure to control it. The coaches went for control because they didn't know how to maximize. History in general tells that story over and over again. Show me in Wilt's career where you see a mix, incorporation or great blend of all of all of his talents.


Wilt did NOT have a better shooting touch than Amare, stop dreaming. And I wrote that I believe he'd average higher than 19 per game in the playoffs in his scoring prime but you got to realize that Wilt's career average in the playoffs when it came to scoring is not as impressive as you're trying to claim it was.
When Amare scored 26ppg he had no touch whatsoever. You don't know what you are talking about at all. ASK the Board. You really think Wilt who was a finesse player in the early years could average 47ppg over 160 games didn't have a very good touch?


Per 36 minutes he had a lower career scoring average in the playoffs than Olajuwon, Shaq, Kareem, Tim Duncan, Patrick Ewing, Moses Malone, Willis Reed.. His regular season average is by far greater than all those guys, even on a 36 minute per game judgement.
Wilt never paced himself for a 36 minute reality and neither did those guys mentioned so its not a reality to take into consideration. If Darko gets tired and crazy after the twentief minute that's his reality and you can't adjust it. Once again, coaching of Chamberlain is a constant story of not being ready for his presence to begin with. In higher pressure situations it manifested itself more. Wilt showed he could dominate offensively just like Shaq in the playoffs. He also showed he could dominate defensively just like Russell. Coaching showed they could never incorporate the two. Wilt was too coachable to say let me be the man. These days no such thing.

[Pointguard]

[QUOTE=Round Mound]http://guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Charles-Barkley-and-Michael-Jordan.jpghttp://www.basketballphoto.com/Photos/Michael-Jordan-30924.jpg
http://asubi.mn/images/asu/1103300209.jpghttp://2daysports.com/img/articles/images/barkley-calls-out-jordan.jpg


[B]Barkley was 6`4 3/4 or 1,95 mt same as Jordan. Still people don`t believe it after so many years? :facepalm:rolleyes:

PEOPLE CHECK OUT THE GAMES 1st and Compare Him To Other Players like that of Thunder Dan, Mark Aguirre or Chris Mullin who where Legit 6

[jalbert009]

Career 60+ point games:

The rest of the NBA, in it's entire history, had 30 60+ point games...COMBINED.

How about Wilt? 32. The next best players, Kobe and MJ, each had FIVE.


Career 70+ point games:

Aside from Wilt...FOUR (with no player having more than one.)

Wilt? SIX.



Career 30-30 games:

Aside from Chamberlain, there have been 36 30-30 games in NBA history, and Russell is the leader of that group, with 7 (Bellamy and Thurmond are next with 3 each.)

How about Wilt? 132.


40-30 (or 30-40) games: Other than Wilt, the NBA has had 9 40-30 games, with Baylor being the only player to have 2.

Chamberlain? 73


50-30 games: Pettit and Baylor each with 1

Wilt? 32


60-20 games: Aside from Wilt, there have been four (Baylor with 3 and Shaq with 1)

Chamberlain? 28


60-30 games: Baylor with 1

Wilt? 8


40-40 games: There have been 8 in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain had all of them.


50-40 games: Obviously, Wilt would be the only player to have ever have accomplsihed that feat, which he did 5 times.


70-30 games: Chamberlain has the only 2, 78-43 and 73-36 (against Bellamy.)

Thanks for this info! I never knew these facts. This truely makes me wonder why Wilt got voted as number 6 on our ISH top players all time list. Wilt should be #3 or #4.

[KOBE143]

Prime Wilt in today's league will be a 3rd string back up center for the Bobcats..:lol

[jongib369]

Prime Wilt in today's league will be a 3rd string back up center for the Bobcats..:lol

Thanks for blessing my post with your presence and wisdom

:bowdown:

[KOBE143]

Thanks for blessing my post with your presence and wisdom

:bowdown:
Thanks also for your recognition.. :D

[lilgodfather1]

[QUOTE=Round Mound]-Along Shaq the Strongest Legs in NBA History (1000 lbs leg bench press)[QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure that most NBA players can leg press 1000 pounds. I could when I was 14/15 so if someone like LeBron, DRob, etc can't then I would be beyond shocked. I went to high school with about a half a dozen people who could leg press over 1300 by the time we were in grade 12.

[Bigsmoke]

lol @ some dude saying that Barkley had a 39 inch vertical leap.

dude didnt jump as high as Derrick Rose, LeBron, Nate Robinson ect.

Nate's vertical leap is actually 44 inches but still. Barkley can jump close to that?

[Whoah10115]

Never judge a rebounder by size and athletic ability. Give Kevin Love his credit.



"Only" 15 rebounds doesn't sound right. He may very well get more, but his body and athleticism, then in contrast with Love's, should not be the determining factor.




And there isn't any chance Wilt could ever average 34-38, unless the team is fine with not winning and him just racking up.

[fpliii]

where do you guys place the upper limit of rebounding today?

is 19-20 achievable, or is the absolute max significantly lower?

[Bigsmoke]

Never judge a rebounder by size and athletic ability. Give Kevin Love his credit.



"Only" 15 rebounds doesn't sound right. He may very well get more, but his body and athleticism, then in contrast with Love's, should not be the determining factor.




And there isn't any chance Wilt could ever average 34-38, unless the team is fine with not winning and him just racking up.

thats what i'm saying

Older NBA fans uses Kevin Love success like a measurement stick like "YEAH if Love can do this then :blah could"

[lilgodfather1]

where do you guys place the upper limit of rebounding today?

is 19-20 achievable, or is the absolute max significantly lower?
It would depend on the team imo. If you are playing on the slowest team in the league there is likely going to be only 92ish posession per game to get a rebound. You have to figure that your team and the other team is going to (over 82 games) average approximately 40-48 rebounds so in order for you to average 20 rebounds a game your rebounding percentage would have to be over 40%. That's not going to happen in any league imo.

[Pointguard]

thats what i'm saying

Older NBA fans uses Kevin Love success like a measurement stick like "YEAH if Love can do this then :blah could"

Both I and Jlauber have used Kevin Love in our height/athletic arguments. Saying that desire is moreso the criteria than height/girth/athleticism.



where do you guys place the upper limit of rebounding today?

is 19-20 achievable, or is the absolute max significantly lower?


I think 21 per 40 minutes is the absolute max. 19 the practical max. 17 the multi-task max.

[fpliii]

Both I and Jlauber have used Kevin Love in our height/athletic arguments. Saying that desire is moreso the criteria than height/girth/athleticism.



I think 21 per 40 minutes is the absolute max. 19 the practical max. 17 the multi-task max.

multi-tasking as in concentrating on two phases of the game (either of offense/defense + rebounding), or all three (offense+defense+rebounding)?

I think 19 is the multi-task max, but we could see 21 in a playoff run where there are fewer contests in which one needs to exert the necessary energy (requiring less sustainability)

[millwad]

[QUOTE=Round Mound]http://guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Charles-Barkley-and-Michael-Jordan.jpghttp://www.basketballphoto.com/Photos/Michael-Jordan-30924.jpg
http://asubi.mn/images/asu/1103300209.jpghttp://2daysports.com/img/articles/images/barkley-calls-out-jordan.jpg


[B]Barkley was 6`4 3/4 or 1,95 mt same as Jordan. Still people don`t believe it after so many years? :facepalm:rolleyes:

PEOPLE CHECK OUT THE GAMES 1st and Compare Him To Other Players like that of Thunder Dan, Mark Aguirre or Chris Mullin who where Legit 6

[CavaliersFTW]

You try way too hard to midgetize him, just stop it.

And there's another factor as well, Barkley had a small head and tiny neck, a guy can be taller than Barkley but still have no edge because having a big head or long neck doesn't give you any advantage. Barkley had the body of a 6'6 guy, EASILY.

And I guess that mugshot was WAY off? I'm also talking about height in shoes.
Yes Millwad the mug shot (specifically, the chart behind him) was very likely way off.

I have another measurement of his. He was measured 6-4.63 (6-4 5/8ths) in 1992 for the Olympics w/o shoes - at the same time Jordan measured 6-4.88 (6-4 7/8ths). There is no midgetizing going on, that's just how tall he was. He was measured multiple times from college to the pros and every time is roughly in the 6-4 and 3/4 range (same goes for MJ). If there's one thing I can contribute well to this site it's the legitimate measurements of players past and present. Barkely was definitely never more than 6-5 w/o shoes. He was built like a tank though, with a range of 252 (trim) - 286 (fat) he's one of the heaviest players to ever play with a sub 6-6 barefoot height that I'm aware of and it was concentrated where it counts in his legs and core.


**EDIT** you're right about the neck/head observation though. His shoulders (and thus, standing reach / body mass / etc) would probably be that expected of a player an inch or two taller. A similar effect goes on with a guy like Dwight Howard who is technically shorter than a player like Chris Bosh... but has a much longer reach and much more massive frame.

[jlauber]

I would ask... what do you think a PRIME Kareem could average in today's era? Also, what would Hakeem average in today's NBA?

Why? Because we KNOW that a 38-39 year old Kareem was AVERAGING 32 ppg on .630 shooting in TEN STRAIGHT GAMES against Hakeem in the mid-80's, including THREE games of 40+. Hell, a 39 year old Kareem outscored Ewing in one game, 40-9 (while outshooting him, 15-22 to 3-17.)

Then, think about this...


Career 60 point games: Everyone else whoever played in the NBA...combined: 30 (MJ and Kobe with five each)

Wilt? 32


Career 70 point games: The rest of the entire NBA in it's history: 4 (one each by Kobe, Baylor, Thompson, and Robinson)

Wilt... SIX


Career 30-30 games:

Aside from Chamberlain, there have been 36 30-30 games in NBA history, and Russell is the leader of that group, with 7 (Bellamy and Thurmond are next with 3 each.)

How about Wilt? 132.


40-30 (or 30-40) games: Other than Wilt, the NBA has had 9 40-30 games, with Baylor being the only player to have 2.

Chamberlain? 73


50-30 games: Pettit and Baylor each with 1

Wilt? 32


60-20 games: Aside from Wilt, there have been four (Baylor with 3 and Shaq with 1)

Chamberlain? 28


60-30 games: Baylor with 1

Wilt? 8


40-40 games: There have been 8 in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain had all of them.


50-40 games: Obviously, Wilt would be the only player to have ever have accomplsihed that feat, which he did 5 times.


70-30 games: Chamberlain has the only 2, 78-43 and 73-36 (against Bellamy.)





Keep in mind that Kareem played FOUR seasons IN the Wilt era...and yet, do you see his name in any of the above? In fact, Kareem faced MANY of the SAME centers that a PRIME Wilt just destroyed by staggering margins, and never approached the overall domination that Wilt leveled against those same centers.

You want some examples? Wilt had an entire season, covering NINE H2H games, in which he AVERAGED 40 ppg against HOFer Willis Reed. Included in that season were games in which Wilt murdered Reed by margins of 41-9, 52-23, and 58-28. Find me a game in which Kareem scored 50 points against Reed.

How about 6-11 HOFer Nate Thurmond? Kareem faced Thurmond in 43 H2H starts...and his high game was 34 points against him. In fact, he had a TOTAL of SEVEN games against Nate in which he scored 30+ points against him. And, in three straight playoff series against Thurmond, he shot .486, .428, and, get this... .405 against Nate.

How about Wilt against Nate? A PRIME "scoring" Chamberlain had a span of eleven straight games against Thurmond, in which he averaged 30 ppg. In those 11 games, he had SIX games of 30+, including games of 30, 33, 33, 34, 38, and 45 points. In those six games, he had margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and an unfathomable margin of 45-13. Oh, and he faced Thurmond in three playoff series, as well. In those three playoff series, he outshot Thurmond by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and ... .560 to .343 (and that came in Thurmond's greatest season BTW.)

Both Kareem and Wilt faced 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy many times. Kareem faced him in some 25 H2H encounters, and his three highest games against Bellamy were games of 40, 39, and 35 points.

Wilt vs. Bellamy? In their first H2H game, Chamberlain shelled Bellamy by a 52-14 margin. How about this? In their 62-63 season, covering 10 H2H games, Chamberlain AVERAGED 43.7 ppg against Bellamy, including a 61 point game. BUT, that's not all. In their 61-62 season (in a year in which Bellamy averaged 31.6 ppg), and again in 10 H2H games, Wilt AVERAGED 52.7 ppg against Bellamy, including THREE games of 60+, and with a high game of 73 points (to go along with 36 rebounds.) Chamberlain was even hanging 50 point games on Bellamy in the '66 season.

How about this? In Wilt's 68-69 season, which was just one year before Kareem's rookie season in 69-70, Chamberlain hung a 60 point game on Connie Dierking, and a 66 point game on Jim Fox (on 29-35 shooting BTW.) Not only that, but in the very next season, (and again, in Kareem's rookie season), Wilt torched Dierking with a 43 point game. Unfortunately, Wilt shredded his knee in the ninth game, and was never the same again.

Ok, Kareem faced Dierking in some nine H2H games, and his high game against him was 41 points. So, Wilt had a higher game against Dierking, IN the Kareem-era, than what Kareem had against him. And, of course, he had that 60 point game against him just the year before Kareem arrived. And, I won't bother looking up all of Wilt's H2H's with Dierking, but I am reasonably certain that he had multiple 50+ point games against him in his career (and I do KNOW that he plastered Dierking with a 41 point playoff game in '67.)

Kareem also faced Jim Fox in some 30+ H2H games...and his high game against him was 41 points. Where was Kareem's 66 point game against him?

Oh, and Kareem also battled Darrall Imhoff in several H2H games. For some reason I can't find HIS 100 point game against him (nor even a 56 point game, which is what Wilt carpet-bombed Imhoff with in his very next start after that 100 point game...and in a game in which Imhoff received a standing ovation for "holding" Wilt to "only" 56 points.)

[dunksby]

I'm positive Wilt would average 25/15 in today's league and probably 3.5+BPG too easily.

[jongib369]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/7041767341_14f2bc3ee0_c.jpg

[jongib369]

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5244/5202774728_7d024d1568_z.jpg

[millwad]

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5244/5202774728_7d024d1568_z.jpg

What's wrong with you?
Do you get medication for your Aspergers? I do recall that you told me you had the syndrome and you're obviously showcasing it with your crazy obsession with the guy.

We get it, you love the guy and you're obsessed but you're not even posting interesting stuff about him, you just bump crazy old thread with a one-liner or some random pic of him.

[rodman91]

How many Wilt threads going on lately? I thought he came back from the dead.:lol