#11 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hakeem Olajuwon was voted the #10 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops.

21.8 PPG | 11.1 RPG | 2.5 APG

2

[Deuce Bigalow]

The Top 10 is complete. Here is the vote count of the Top 10.

#1 NBA Player Of All-Time
38- Michael Jordan
3- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2- Wilt Chamberlain
2- Bill Russell
1- Hakeem Olajuwon
1- Magic Johnson

#2 NBA Player Of All-Time
40- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
17- Bill Russell
11- Magic Johnson
10- Wilt Chamberlain
4- Larry Bird
3- Kobe Bryant
1- Lebron James
1- Hakeem Olajuwon

#3 NBA Player Of All-Time
37- Bill Russell
27- Magic Johnson
14- Wilt Chamberlain
2- Larry Bird
1- Kobe Bryant

#4 NBA Player Of All-Time
36- Magic Johnson
28- Wilt Chamberlain
4- Larry Bird
2- Shaquille O'Neal

#5 NBA Player Of All-Time
32- Larry Bird
29- Wilt Chamberlain
3- Kobe Bryant
2- Shaquille O'Neal
1- Julius Erving
1- Lebron James

#6 NBA Player Of All-Time
43- Wilt Chamberlain
12- Shaquille O'Neal
3- Tim Duncan
2- Hakeem Olajuwon

#7 NBA Player Of All-Time
49- Shaquille O'Neal
10- Tim Duncan
9- Kobe Bryant
7- Hakeem Olajuwon
2- Oscar Robertson

#8 NBA Player Of All-Time
53- Kobe Bryant
45- Tim Duncan
25- Hakeem Olajuwon
1- Moses Malone

#9 NBA Player Of All-Time
41- Tim Duncan
17- Hakeem Olajuwon
2- Moses Malone
2- Oscar Robertson
1- Elgin Baylor

#10 NBA Player Of All-Time
34- Hakeem Olajuwon
4- Oscar Robertson
2- Moses Malone
1- Lebron James
1- Jerry West

[Noof]

Jerry West

[longhornfan1234]

Moses.

[arifgokcen]

Lebron

[coin24]

Moses:cheers:

[Quickening]

Lebron

[LosBulls]

LeBron James

[DirtySanchez]

Big O Oscar Robinson

The man averaged a triple double for a season

[East_Stone_Ya]

I.Thomas

[TaLvsCuaL]

The Admiral

[alenleomessi]

Lebron James

[Round Mound]

Barkley...Statistically is Actual Closer to Top 10

Top 10 All Time In EFF
Top 10 All Time in Season PER
Top 9 All Time in Play-Off PER
Top 5 All Time in Plus/Minus (+/-)
Top 4 All Time In Shot Made/Missed Diferential
Top 8 All Time in WS Per 48 Minutes

[Harison]

Jerry West

[Lebron23]

LeBron James

[Horatio33]

Jerry West.

LeBron will make top eleven, just not yet.

[KingJames99]

Lebron James.

[Suckafree]

Lebron

[KOBE143]

The Logo

[INDI]

Oscar

[G.O.A.T.]

The Big O

[brownmamba00]

the Logo

[Absolut Prince]

Kareem over Russell and Wilt is just... idiotic.

[raiderfan19]

Lebron.

[Alan Ogg]

Lebron James

[Alan Ogg]

#5 NBA Player Of All-Time
27- Larry Bird
23- Wilt Chamberlain
2- Shaquille O'Neal
2- Kobe Bryant
1- Julius Erving
1- Lebron James


Why'd this one get called so early compared to the others. It was too close a vote to move on in my opinion. (voted for Bird for what it's worth) Just jumped out at me.

[DaSeba5]

LeBron James

[iDunk]

Jerry West

[CarlosBoozer]

Lebron James

[Dragonyeuw]

Here's where it gets a bit tricky. I'll go with Lebron.

[DG#8]

Moses

[raid09]

LeBron

[raprap]

Oscar Robertson

[lakers_forever]

Moses Malone

[White Mamba]

Moses

[RRR3]

All the way with LBJ

[oolalaa]

Moses? Outside of 2 post seasons and 1 dominant regular season, his career was an overwhelming disappointment. He got bounced form the 1st round to the "mighty" Hawks in '79 (His MVP campaign), he got SWEPT by rookie Bird in '80, he lost again in the 1st round in '82, and, going into the '84 playoffs as defending champs, he led the Sixers to ANOTHER 1st round loss against the Nets (The Nets!!). He was cooked by the age of 30, after which he didn't get out of the 1st round for the remainder of his career. He couldn't defend. He couldn't pass. He exhibited very little of the qualities that make you a great leader or motivator. OVERRATED.


Oscar? Oscar??? His moody, egomaniacal demeanour cost his teams the success his talent deserved. He was not a fun guy to be around. He sucked the life out of almost every game. For an entire decade, with Oscar at the helm, Cincinatti were 2-6 in the playoffs. 10 years and he won 2 ****ing playoff series!! He didn't even make the playoffs for 3 years IN A ROW between '68 & '70!! :oldlol: The most OVERRATED great in NBA history.


It HAS to be Jerry West. Undoubtedly one of the unluckier players of all time. He was OUTSTANDING in just about every post season from '61 - '70, made countless clutch shots, and had countless big performances. His Laker team kept losing to Russell's Celtics primarily because Russell could do whatever he wanted in the paint and under the boards. They had no one to match up with him. He has an MVP (Reed screwed him over in '70), 2 FMVPs (Got robbed in '70, AGAIN. Reed most definitely DID NOT deserve it, not after being almost WORTHLESS for the final 3 games) and loads of all-nba first and all-defensive first teams (If the award existed). It's about time he stopped getting so underrated....

[lilgodfather1]

LeBron James.

Also how did Thomas get a vote? WTF is that guy thinking...

[BruceLeeBowen]

Lebron James.

[RRR3]

Moses? Outside of 2 post seasons and 1 dominant regular season, his career was an overwhelming disappointment. He got bounced form the 1st round to the "mighty" Hawks in '79 (His MVP campaign), he got SWEPT by rookie Bird in '80, he lost again in the 1st round in '82, and, going into the '84 playoffs as defending champs, he led the Sixers to ANOTHER 1st round loss against the Nets (The Nets!!). He was cooked by the age of 30, after which he didn't get out of the 1st round for the remainder of his career. He couldn't defend. He couldn't pass. He exhibited very little of the qualities that make you a great leader or motivator. OVERRATED.


Oscar? Oscar??? His moody, egomaniacal demeanour cost his teams the success his talent deserved. He was not a fun guy to be around. He sucked the life out of almost every game. For an entire decade, with Oscar at the helm, Cincinatti were 2-6 in the playoffs. 10 years and he won 2 ****ing playoff series!! He didn't even make the playoffs for 3 years IN A ROW between '68 & '70!! :oldlol: The most OVERRATED great in NBA history.


It HAS to be Jerry West. Undoubtedly one of the unluckier players of all time. He was OUTSTANDING in just about every post season from '61 - '70, made countless clutch shots, and had countless big performances. His Laker team kept losing to Russell's Celtics primarily because Russell could do whatever he wanted in the paint and under the boards. They had no one to match up with him. He has an MVP (Reed screwed him over in '70), 2 FMVPs (Got robbed in '70, AGAIN. Reed most definitely DID NOT deserve it, not after being almost WORTHLESS for the final 3 games) and loads of all-nba first and all-defensive first teams (If the award existed). It's about time he stopped getting so underrated....

Like JLaubs says, stop giving West a pass for losing in the finals so many times when you don't give one to Wilt :no:

[Sarcastic]

Oscar Robertson.

[Dave3]

Why'd this one get called so early compared to the others. It was too close a vote to move on in my opinion. (voted for Bird for what it's worth) Just jumped out at me.
OP hates Wilt, so he ended both votings that had Wilt close to second way too prematurely. Bird won with 27 votes, almost half of what some other spots needed, and the other ones were a much bigger difference than 4 votes. Obvious bias is obvious.

[RRR3]

OP hates Wilt, so he ended both votings that had Wilt close to second way too prematurely. Bird won with 27 votes, almost half of what some other spots needed, and the other ones were a much bigger difference than 4 votes. Obvious bias is obvious.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Dave AKA "Phoenix" da GAWD! (repped)

[Dave3]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Dave AKA "Phoenix" da GAWD! (repped)
And you know it's going to happen with this one right now (LeBron is beating West and Moses 14-6-5) It's not going to end until one of them catches up, or LeBron gets like a 30 vote lead. I don't understand the point of making voting threads if you change the criteria for winning every other thread.

[scandisk_]

the "O"

[RRR3]

And you know it's going to happen with this one right now (LeBron is beating West and Moses 14-6-5) It's not going to end until one of them catches up, or LeBron gets like a 30 vote lead. I don't understand the point of making voting threads if you change the criteria for winning every other thread.
Remember the last one he made where LeBron didn't make the top 25 all-time :oldlol:
IIRC even Shaqattack got pissed off and called him out maybe I'm remembering incorrectly though..

[fpliii]

I have LeBron behind Robertson and West, ahead of Moses and Dr. J (sans ABA years; with ABA years he's well within the top 10).

All 5 guys are in the same tier for me, but I really don't know who to vote in.

[Dave3]

Remember the last one he made where LeBron didn't make the top 25 all-time :oldlol:
That one's not really his control. People were just stupid after LeBron messed up in the finals. Right now though he's doing the same thing he did with his finals runs one. My only question is "why?" Why make a "vote" if you're going to try and determine who wins on your own? The vote isn't going to change anyone's mind (Kennethgriffin right now still thinks Kobe is top 5, and I still think he's not better than Hakeem or Duncan) so what's the point? Why not just make it legit so it's actually "according to ISH" as opposed to "according to ISH but revised by OP" He's not gaining anything by doing this.

[Sakkreth]

List ain't that bad so far if u move Kobe to 10 from 8 and Move Duncan and Hakeem up by one.

Now it gets tricky, but it ain't even that important if LeBron is next or not, in the future he will be top 10 in every list anyways. I say LeBron, next will be Oscar from me and then West.

[franchiez]

Oscar Robertson

[pauk]

Lebron James

[KingBeasley08]

Lebron.

[pauk]

............................Lebron..........Moses. ......
MVP..........................3.................3.. .........
FMVP........................1..................1.. ........
CHAMP......................1.................1.... .......
ROTY.......................Yes..............No.... ......
DPOY........................0.................0... ........
1st All-NBA................6.................4...........
1st All-Def.................4.................1...........
All-Star.....................8................12...... .....
All-Star MVP..............2.................0............
POTM.......................20................4.... ........
Best Player?.............Yes.............Never........

Do the right thing fellas............

[Duncan21formvp]

Moses Malone

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Lebron

[Duncan21formvp]

............................Lebron..........Moses. ......
MVP..........................3.................3.. .........
FMVP........................1..................1.. ........
CHAMP......................1.................1.... .......
ROTY.......................Yes..............No.... ......
DPOY........................0.................0... ........
1st All-NBA................6.................4...........
1st All-Def.................4.................1...........
All-Star.....................8................12...... .....
All-Star MVP..............2.................0............
POTM.......................20................4.... ........
Best Player?.............Yes.............Never........

Do the right thing fellas............


How was Moses Malone never the best player? Who was the best player in 83?

[Nash]

Lets be real here, its Lebron.

[pauk]

How was Moses Malone never the best player? Who was the best player in 83?

The triple double averaging Magic Johnson who just came of two championships and 2 FMVPs.... Then the 31-6-5 @ 56% FG Adrian Dantley made it tough to, Larry Bird, Kareem, George Gervin, Bernard King and so on...

Choosing the best player in that season was not as easy choosing the best player this season...

[BlackVVaves]

Love how Pauk refuses to detail why he continues to use awards to compare Lebron to players such as Oscar or West when the said awards did not even exist back then.

Obvious agenda is obvious :facepalm

Jerry West.

[BoutPractice]

My vote goes to LeBron. Would've been Moses before that 2012 run.

They have pretty similar achievements at this point (most importantly the 3 MVPs and Finals MVP), but LeBron was more consistently a top 3 player in the league, as evidenced by All-NBA selections and MVP votes.
Also, from watching him play, Moses' impact seemed to be mainly due to his scoring and rebounding, as opposed to LeBron's all-around dominance. This shows on the court and in stats, both regular and advanced.

[riseagainst]

Big O, imo. then Lebron after.

[rmt]

I find it strange that OP ended the voting for #5 between Bird/Wilt with only a total vote of 56 with a very small margin of 4 between them. Yet he let the voting for #8 between Kobe/Duncan go on for a total of 124 votes with a margin of 8 between them. Then #10 voting was over in a flash.

[pauk]

Love how Pauk refuses to detail why he continues to use awards to compare Lebron to players such as Oscar or West when the said awards did not even exist back then.

Obvious agenda is obvious :facepalm

Jerry West.

Love how BlackVVaves refuses to detail why he continues to use awards to compare Kobe to players such as Oscar or West when he just voted a less awarded player over Lebron

You just have to throw in these delusional thoughts in your brain just to feel better about your blinded Lebron hatred huh?

[Sarcastic]

............................Lebron..........Moses. ......
MVP..........................3.................3.. .........
FMVP........................1..................1.. ........
CHAMP......................1.................1.... .......
ROTY.......................Yes..............No.... ......
DPOY........................0.................0... ........
1st All-NBA................6.................4...........
1st All-Def.................4.................1...........
All-Star.....................8................12...... .....
All-Star MVP..............2.................0............
POTM.......................20................4.... ........
Best Player?.............Yes.............Never........

Do the right thing fellas............


Do you still not realize why these comparisons are so flawed? They don't take into consideration any seasons that a player may have finished second in voting for those awards. Are you trying to imply that those seasons are not important?

[BoutPractice]

In that case though LeBron was top 2 in MVP voting once on top of his 3 MVPs, while Moses wasn't.

[pauk]

Big O, imo. then Lebron after.

......................Lebron............Oscar..... .........West..........
MVP...................3...................1....... .............0..............
FMVP..................1..................0........ ............1...............
CHAMP...............1(the man).....1(sidekick)......1(sidekick)..
ROTY................Yes................Yes........ .........No.............
DPOY..............RunnerUp.........No............. .....No.............
1st All-NBA.........6...................9................. ..10.............
1st All-Def..........4...................0................ ....4..............
All-Star MVP........2...................3.................. .1..............
All-Star..............8...................12.......... .......14..............
POTM................20..................0......... ..........0...............
Best Player?.......Yes..............Never.............N ever...........

[Heavincent]

Moses

[pauk]

In that case though LeBron was top 2 in MVP voting once on top of his 3 MVPs, while Moses wasn't.

Top 2 and Top 4 in Defensive Player of the Year Voting to.... and #1 most 1st All-Defensive team votes (even more than the guy who won DPOY that year)....

[Kblaze8855]

The triple double averaging Magic Johnson who just came of two championships and 2 FMVPs.... Then the 31-6-5 @ 56% FG Adrian Dantley made it tough to, Larry Bird, Kareem, George Gervin, Bernard King and so on...

Choosing the best player in that season was not as easy choosing the best player this season...



If you told a version of ISH in 1983 that Magic was better than Moses Malone they probably would have banned you.

Moses won 3 MVPs in 4 or 5 years totally dominated the playoffs/finals in 83 and was probably as respected as anyone in sports. I remember Bird saying the toughest opponent he ever had before Jordan....was Moses.

Moses just got disregarded over time.

And all NBA team numbers between a swingman and center never add up. He has one spot while Lebron has 2. Guys like Kareem would have been all nba first team 17 years in a row with 2 spots. Moses would have had 8 or 9 straight.

[PyrrhusX]

oscar

[pauk]

Do you still not realize why these comparisons are so flawed? They don't take into consideration any seasons that a player may have finished second in voting for those awards. Are you trying to imply that those seasons are not important?

I am perfectly aware of that and even with that criteria Lebron prevails, lets take the MVP & DPOY for example =

Lebron has finished Top 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 in MVP voting all his seasons basically..
Lebron has been also in Top 2-3-4 in DPOY voting...

[riseagainst]

......................Lebron............Oscar..... .........West..........
MVP...................3...................1....... .............0..............
FMVP..................1..................0........ ............1...............
CHAMP...............1(the man).....1(sidekick)......1(sidekick)..
ROTY................Yes................Yes........ .........No.............
DPOY..............RunnerUp.........No............. .....No.............
1st All-NBA.........6...................9................. ..10.............
1st All-Def..........4...................0................ ....4..............
All-Star MVP........2...................3.................. .1..............
All-Star..............8...................12.......... .......14..............
POTM................20..................0......... ..........0...............
Best Player?.......Yes..............Never.............N ever...........

I know Lebron's accolades are impressive, more impressive than O and West and Moses. But Oscar's triple double seasons are just too incredible to let go of, just my opinion.

[pauk]

oscar

Why? :confusedshrug: The triple double average season? Oh mi Oh my, yea, lets vote him over a much more accomplished player....

[pauk]

I know Lebron's accolades are impressive, more impressive than O and West and Moses. But Oscar's triple double seasons are just too incredible to let go of, just my opinion.

Why not vote him over Hakeem, Kobe and so on aswell then (which i would never do)? :confusedshrug: Same thing actually as voting him over Lebron, as he also has accomplished more....

Speaking of triple doubles, numbers... Lebron is not doing so bad in that area either and he is doing it an a modern era, where there are more teams, better competition and much less possessions per game...

Even Oscar acknowledges that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdnBsCmST_E

[BoutPractice]

It's true that All-NBA comparisons don't work with two spots VS one.
However, for the sake of argument, if there was only one swingman spot, LeBron most likely would have been voted at least four times - from 2009 to 2012 almost certainly.

The fact that LeBron is already being considered ahead of Moses while he may have 7 great years of basketball left in him says a lot about him. It's not a knock on Moses, who might be one of the most under appreciated stars in the history of the game.

[Sarcastic]

I am perfectly aware of that and even with that criteria Lebron prevails, lets take the MVP & DPOY for example =

Lebron has finished Top 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 in MVP voting all his seasons basically..
Lebron has been also in Top 2-3-4 in DPOY voting...

Derrick Rose has an MVP and a ROTY. Isiah Thomas has neither.


Derrick Rose must be better than Isiah Thomas, using your logic.

[riseagainst]

Why not vote him over Hakeem, Kobe and so on aswell then (which i would never do)? :confusedshrug: Same thing actually as voting him over Lebron, as he also has accomplished more....

because when you combine individual stats and career accolades together, Big O's place just seems a tiny bit ahead of Lebron's. But Hakeem having 2 championships and 2 fmvps while playing at that incredible level that he did just cannot be surpassed just by Big O's triple doub seasons. Like 1 championship can be overshadowed by incredible individual performances. But having 2 championships is alot harder to beat just by stats alone.But if Lebron wins 1 more he'll definitely jump several spots.

Edit: they are basically toe to toe, I think. Let's say if Lebron were to retire right now. Then in a few years I might change my mind and perspective on things. Maybe I'm just having a slow morning right now and I just can't get over those triple double seasons. :confusedshrug:

[po3try]

I am between Moses and Lebron on this one, i think i will go with Lebron.

[Sarcastic]

because when you combine individual stats and career accolades together, Big O's place just seems a tiny bit ahead of Lebron's. But Hakeem having 2 championships and 2 fmvps while playing at that incredible level that he did just cannot be surpassed just by Big O's triple doub seasons. Like 1 championship can be overshadowed by incredible individual performances. But having 2 championships is alot harder to beat just by stats alone.But if Lebron wins 1 more he'll definitely jump several spots.

Edit: they are basically toe to toe, I think. Let's say if Lebron were to retire right now. Then in a few years I might change my mind and perspective on things. Maybe I'm just having a slow morning right now and I just can't get over those triple double seasons. :confusedshrug:


Hekeem's titles come with a caveat though: Jordan didn't play.

[riseagainst]

Hekeem's titles come with a caveat though: Jordan didn't play.

meh I think that's a terrible excuse to discredit someone's championship run (despite it being true :lol). That's like saying shaq's 00-02 runs were sh*t because he played against terrible competition in the finals.

[pauk]

Derrick Rose has an MVP and a ROTY. Isiah Thomas has neither.


Derrick Rose must be better than Isiah Thomas, using your logic.

Whoa!! How is that using my logic!!!? :oldlol:

Isiah Thomas has 2 championships and 1 FMVP (which Rose has neither of and which are more significant accomplishments in Isiahs context being the man of his team)... so no, that is not using my logic... the 1 MVP he has is not enough to overcome that...

But Lebron? He has it all compared to the likes of Moses...

My logic: Kobe has more accomplishments, therefore Kobe > Oscar
Your logic: Oscar has better stats, therefore Oscar > Kobe

Thats more closer to my and your logic...

[Pushxx]

Oscar

[Heilige]

LeBron James

[oolalaa]

Like JLaubs says, stop giving West a pass for losing in the finals so many times when you don't give one to Wilt :no:

Are you kidding?

From '60 - '65, I do not blame Wilt for ANY of his losses in the post season. I give Wilt a big fat 6 year 'pass'. His teams were simply not as good as the Celtics. I don't give him enough praise for his '62 and '64 series against them. To take a pretty average supporting cast all the way to a game 7 against a loaded Boston team at the height of their powers is more than impressive. And his '64 Finals....He gave Russell the worst spanking of his career. I don't know the exact numbers, or what exactly happened to Russ (Injury? I'll have to find that out), but I do know that it wasn't pretty. Even though the Warriors lost 4-1, I would still have given the Finals MVP to Wilt.

I have repeatedly said over and over again: His '68 - '70 stretch is what I cannot simply forgive and forget. He was really poor in games 6 & 7 of both the '68 ECFs and the '69 Finals. He had AMPLE opportunity to win 2/3 more rings, and solidify himself as the greatest player of all time. He FAILED. I also think he chucked away a great chance at a title in '66, too. He switched to 'Russell mode' a season too late.


West was far from the perfect player that I make him out to be sometimes :oldlol: Not a good rebounder, not a GREAT leader (I don't think he was vocal or communicative enough), hugely injury prone (He seemingly couldn't go a full series without spraining an ankle, pulling a hamstring, hurting a hand etc).

The reason I call West 'unlucky', and abstain from granting Wilt the same courtesy, is because 1. Wilt was a much more talented all round player than West. 2. More often than not, West was great when he needed to be.....

-- The must-win game 5 of the '66 Finals (It was a must-win because the Lakers lost game 4 despite West putting up a 45/4/10 on 19/31 shooting). He hit a go-ahead/game winning jumper.
-- The must-win game 6 of the '66 Finals. Three crucial shots in crunch time.
-- The do-or-die game 7 in the '69 Finals. 42/13/12, including single handily bringing the Lakers back into it in the 4th as Wilt and Bread Kolff fueded on the bench.
--Game 2 of the '70 Finals. The game winning free throws to avoid going down 0-2.
-- Game 4 of the '70 Finals. Hitting his last 8 shots, including 6 points in the OT, to avoid going down 3-1.

His 2 main blemishes are the '66 Finals game 7 (Only 2 FGs in the first half as Boston romped away with it. To be fair Baylor only scored 2 points in the 1st half) and the '70 Finals game 7 (Frazier outplayed him in the first half as the Knicks romped away with it. West was playing with a badly jammed thumb). Other than that, West was really good.


Without the Wilt/Breda Kolff fued in '69 and Wilt shredding his knee in '70 West almost certainly would have finished his career with 3 rings and 2 FMVPs.

Ultimately, Wilt >>>> West, and no one will convince me otherwise, including myself :D

[DaHeezy]

big mo

[Mirko Cro Cop]

LeBron

[Heilige]

Are you kidding?

From '60 - '65, I do not blame Wilt for ANY of his losses in the post season. I give Wilt a big fat 6 year 'pass'. His teams were simply not as good as the Celtics. I don't give him enough praise for his '62 and '64 series against them. To take a pretty average supporting cast all the way to a game 7 against a loaded Boston team at the height of their powers is more than impressive. And his '64 Finals....He gave Russell the worst spanking of his career. I don't know the exact numbers, or what exactly happened to Russ (Injury? I'll have to find that out), but I do know that it wasn't pretty. Even though the Warriors lost 4-1, I would still have given the Finals MVP to Wilt.

I have repeatedly said over and over again: His '68 - '70 stretch is what I cannot simply forgive and forget. He was really poor in games 6 & 7 of both the '68 ECFs and the '69 Finals. He had AMPLE opportunity to win 2/3 more rings, and solidify himself as the greatest player of all time. He FAILED. I also think he chucked away a great chance at a title in '66, too. He switched to 'Russell mode' a season too late.


West was far from the perfect player that I make him out to be sometimes :oldlol: Not a good rebounder, not a GREAT leader (I don't think he was vocal or communicative enough), hugely injury prone (He seemingly couldn't go a full series without spraining an ankle, pulling a hamstring, hurting a hand etc).

The reason I call West 'unlucky', and abstain from granting Wilt the same courtesy, is because 1. Wilt was a much more talented all round player than West. 2. More often than not, West was great when he needed to be.....

-- The must-win game 5 of the '66 Finals (It was a must-win because the Lakers lost game 4 despite West putting up a 45/4/10 on 19/31 shooting). He hit a go-ahead/game winning jumper.
-- The must-win game 6 of the '66 Finals. Three crucial shots in crunch time.
-- The do-or-die game 7 in the '69 Finals. 42/13/12, including single handily bringing the Lakers back into it in the 4th as Wilt and Bread Kolff fueded on the bench.
--Game 2 of the '70 Finals. The game winning free throws to avoid going down 0-2.
-- Game 4 of the '70 Finals. Hitting his last 8 shots, including 6 in the OT, to avoid going down 3-1.

His 2 main blemishes are the '66 Finals game 7 (Only 2 FGs in the first half as Boston romped away with it. To be fair Baylor only scored 2 points in the 1st half) and the '70 Finals game 7 (Frazier outplayed him in the first half as the Knicks romped away with it. West was playing with a badly jammed thumb). Other than that, West was really good.


Without the Wilt/Breda Kolff fued in '69 and Wilt shredding his knee in '70 West almost certainly would have finished his career with 3 rings and 2 FMVPs.

Ultimately, Wilt >>>> West, and it's not that close.


oolalaa, what is your top 10 list like?

[Shade8780]

Adam Morrison. This list is already a joke :/

[oolalaa]

oolalaa, what is your top 10 list like?

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Magic Johnson

4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain

7. Tim Duncan
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Jerry West
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Hakeem Olajuwon

That's my top 11. Jordan is pretty set as my number 1. I would certainly entertain arguments for Russ and Magic to be over him, but they wouldn't be that hard to tear apart.

Kareem has NO case for GOAT whatsoever. Not after his inexcusable lack of team success in the NBAs weakest ever decade (Post 50s). His amazing longevity cannot be completely ignored though.

West over Kobe? Like I've said, despite what their respective ring totals indicate, West was a MUCH better Finals performer. It's basically a toss-up, but that's why I give the edge to West. Oh, and I also think Kobe is the most overrated 'clutch' performer in NBA history. :oldlol: With that being said, Kobe definitely could ened up in the top 7, maybe even as high as #4, if he holds off father time for a few more years....

[lakersfan2046]

Oscar Robertson

[SpecialQue]

Moses.

[KOBE143]

at people choosing Lebron..:facepalm

[BlackVVaves]

Love how BlackVVaves refuses to detail why he continues to use awards to compare Kobe to players such as Oscar or West when he just voted a less awarded player over Lebron

You just have to throw in these delusional thoughts in your brain just to feel better about your blinded Lebron hatred huh?

Go ahead and find me a post of mine that uses awards to compare Kobe to anyone outside of MVP and FMVP. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Pauk, you're sad man. No amount of lying can ever cover up your agenda.

Oh, and by the way, I voted Duncan over Kobe at #7 and #8. So much for my delusion, huh? :roll:

[chazzy]

Go ahead and find me a post of mine that uses awards to compare Kobe to anyone outside of MVP and FMVP. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Pauk, you're sad man. No amount of lying can ever cover up your agenda.

Oh, and by the way, I voted Duncan over Kobe at #7 and #8. So much for my delusion, huh? :roll:
:oldlol:

[lilgodfather1]

What is the current tally? Without adding them up I am pretty sure that LeBron is in the lead at this point. Pretty impressive for a 27 year old.

[Mirko Cro Cop]

LeBron

[arifgokcen]

So far if i am not mistaken 27 votes for lebron of course owner of this thread will reveal the results probably later around evening

[sagr32]

Oscar

[pauk]

Go ahead and find me a post of mine that uses awards to compare Kobe to anyone outside of MVP and FMVP. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Pauk, you're sad man. No amount of lying can ever cover up your agenda.

Oh, and by the way, I voted Duncan over Kobe at #7 and #8. So much for my delusion, huh? :roll:

Lying? What did i lie about? You just voted a less accomplished player over Lebron didnt you? Thats the only thing i touched.... and its fine, its your opinion, i just showed you with facts its a stupid opinion while you retaliated with insults instead of proving to me/us with factual proof to why your opinion is as it is, but its your opinion, so what the hell...

[pauk]

at people choosing Lebron..:facepalm

You hate that dont you... :rolleyes:
Put your Kobetardism aside for once and respect the game of basketball... Lebron has accomplished more than Moses, West and Oscar...

[Lebronn23]

You hate that dont you... :rolleyes:
Put your Kobetardism aside for once and respect the game of basketball... Lebron has accomplished more than Moses, West and Oscar...
You're the biggest homer on this site, you have no reason to talk about someone else.

[TheMarkMadsen]

......................Lebron............Oscar..... .........West..........
MVP...................3...................1....... .............0..............
FMVP..................1..................0........ ............1...............
CHAMP...............1(the man).....1(sidekick)......1(sidekick)..
ROTY................Yes................Yes........ .........No.............
DPOY..............RunnerUp.........No............. .....No.............
1st All-NBA.........6...................9................. ..10.............
1st All-Def..........4...................0................ ....4..............
All-Star MVP........2...................3.................. .1..............
All-Star..............8...................12.......... .......14..............
POTM................20..................0......... ..........0...............
Best Player?.......Yes..............Never.............N ever...........


So if you're going to count when Lebron was a runner up, don't you think you should count that for everybody else?

[RRR3]

You hate that dont you... :rolleyes:
Put your Kobetardism aside for once and respect the game of basketball... Lebron has accomplished more than Moses, West and Oscar...
Pauk, you're my homeboy, but you need to relax a bit, this ranking doesn't mean anything in the long run. LeBron will end up where he ends up regardless of what people think. :cheers:

[KG215]

............................Lebron..........Moses. ......
MVP..........................3.................3.. .........
FMVP........................1..................1.. ........
CHAMP......................1.................1.... .......
ROTY.......................Yes..............No.... ......
DPOY........................0.................0... ........
1st All-NBA................6.................4...........
1st All-Def.................4.................1...........
All-Star.....................8................12...... .....
All-Star MVP..............2.................0............
POTM.......................20................4.... ........
Best Player?.............Yes.............Never........

Do the right thing fellas............

I'm going to keep calling you out on this every time you do it and I see it. I don't even care that you voted for LeBron but...stop using Player of the Month! The award didn't even exist the first SEVEN years of Malone's career and they never awarded to a player from each conference during his career.

[Dave3]

I'm going to keep calling you out on this every time you do it and I see it. I don't even care that you voted for LeBron but...stop using Player of the Month! The award didn't even exist the first SEVEN years of Malone's career and they never awarded to a player from each conference during his career.
Co-sign.

Stop making LeBron fans look bad man. You're not helping his case at all. You're just like Kennethgriffin to Kobe. Probably not as bad, but still. Why make an unfair comparison?

[RRR3]

Co-sign.

Stop making LeBron fans look bad man. You're not helping his case at all. You're just like Kennethgriffin to Kobe. Probably not as bad, but still. Why make an unfair comparison?
Agreed, ironically stans of a player who try to boost their favorite player on ISH often do exactly the opposite.

[pauk]

So if you're going to count when Lebron was a runner up, don't you think you should count that for everybody else?

I do and they were not DPOY runner ups... :confusedshrug:

[KG215]

......................Lebron............Oscar..... .........West..........
MVP...................3...................1....... .............0..............
FMVP..................1..................0........ ............1...............
CHAMP...............1(the man).....1(sidekick)......1(sidekick)..
ROTY................Yes................Yes........ .........No.............
DPOY..............RunnerUp.........No............. .....No.............
1st All-NBA.........6...................9................. ..10.............
1st All-Def..........4...................0................ ....4..............
All-Star MVP........2...................3.................. .1..............
All-Star..............8...................12.......... .......14..............
POTM................20..................0......... ..........0...............
Best Player?.......Yes..............Never.............N ever...........

:facepalm

You use POTM here even though it was never an award during Robertson's or West's career.

I mean, of course, anyone that has a brain knows that POTM is pretty insignificant when it comes to ranking players, but it's the pettiness of using it that shows just how pathetic you are when it comes to defending your boy LeBron.

I'm going to start doing this when I compare Russell and Kareem and use Finals MVPs as one of my categories when I want people to rank Kareem higher.

[pauk]

You're the biggest homer on this site, you have no reason to talk about someone else.

Homer? Is that the best you could do with that alt-account? Prove it to me please... a homer is a player fan that will always favor his favorite player over others... biasness so to speak... a homer is not a guy favoring the player that deserves to be favored based ON FACTS...

Good try...

[StateOfMind12]

The King, LeBron James.

[pauk]

:facepalm

You use POTM here even though it was never an award during Robertson's or West's career.

I mean, of course, anyone that has a brain knows that POTM is pretty insignificant when it comes to ranking players, but it's the pettiness of using it that shows just how pathetic you are when it comes to defending your boy LeBron.

I'm going to start doing this when I compare Russell and Kareem and use Finals MVPs as one of my categories when I want people to rank Kareem higher.

Well, skip the POTM and then try "facepalm" the other accomplishments...

POTM is not insignificant, its a hardware/trophy delivered to the MVP of the month by the MVP voters.... it has the MVP criterias and the guy that won the most POTM in a season most often also won the MVP...

[kennethgriffin]

i vote lebron


just to mess with the list

its already f*cked. can we end it already?

[KG215]

Well, skip the POTM and then and try "facepalm" the other accomplishments...

POTM is not insignificant, its a hardware/trophy delivered to the MVP of the month by the MVP voters.... it has the MVP criterias and the guy that won the most POTM in a season most often also won the MVP...

It is insignificant because the award has only existed since they '79-'80 season and they didn't start awarding it to a player from each conference until '01-'02. You just have it in your mind that it's significant because it's a number you can put on LeBron's resume to make him look better.

Why even use it? Especially when comparing LeBron to Moses Malone (POTM didn't exist first seven years of his career and never played when they gave it to a player from both conferences) or LeBron to West and Oscar (the award never existed during either players career). I mean if you want to make one of those resume comparisons for LeBron, West, and Oscar why don't you just delete the POTM section? Is it that hard to do? Or do you just not want to because you think some people will see that and think "Wow, LeBron has been named POTM 20 times but neither of those other guys ever won the award."

[Legends66NBA7]

The triple double averaging Magic Johnson who just came of two championships and 2 FMVPs.... Then the 31-6-5 @ 56% FG Adrian Dantley made it tough to, Larry Bird, Kareem, George Gervin, Bernard King and so on...

Choosing the best player in that season was not as easy choosing the best player this season...


If you told a version of ISH in 1983 that Magic was better than Moses Malone they probably would have banned you.

Moses won 3 MVPs in 4 or 5 years totally dominated the playoffs/finals in 83 and was probably as respected as anyone in sports. I remember Bird saying the toughest opponent he ever had before Jordan....was Moses.

Moses just got disregarded over time.

And all NBA team numbers between a swingman and center never add up. He has one spot while Lebron has 2. Guys like Kareem would have been all nba first team 17 years in a row with 2 spots. Moses would have had 8 or 9 straight.

Seriously, this...

Moses was clearly the best in 83. Not even a debate.

I also believe he was considered he best player in the game for a good 3 years stretch.

[Chalmers15]

Well, skip the POTM and then try "facepalm" the other accomplishments...

POTM is not insignificant, its a hardware/trophy delivered to the MVP of the month by the MVP voters.... it has the MVP criterias and the guy that won the most POTM in a season most often also won the MVP...

Did your mother drop you as a baby? :roll:

[tmacattack33]

I can't vote here. I believe Moses or Oscar would probably go next from Top 10 lists from the experts ...and i am too young to have seen them.

I will only be voting for players from circa 1995 and up, and i will only vote for them at spots that make sense for them (I won't be voting for Malone here, even though he's the next on my circa 1995 and up list).

I suggest a lot of you do the same.

[Heavincent]

You hate that dont you... :rolleyes:
Put your Kobetardism aside for once and respect the game of basketball... Lebron has accomplished more than Moses, West and Oscar...

What's with all of your stupid made up words? Kobetardism? What the ****? :facepalm

[Heavincent]

Homer? Is that the best you could do with that alt-account? Prove it to me please... a homer is a player fan that will always favor his favorite player over others... biasness so to speak... a homer is not a guy favoring the player that deserves to be favored based ON FACTS...

Good try...

Dude, you're one of the biggest homers on ISH. No need to deny it. Everyone on here is biased.

[Freedom Kid7]

Erm, christ this is where it gets tough and I start to be a little more indifferent. I'll vote for West though

[RRR3]

Dude, you're one of the biggest homers on ISH. No need to deny it. Everyone on here is biased.
:applause: :applause:

Wait a minute :biggums:
This is ISH :no:
stop with all that realistic reasonable BS :rant
You're supposed to either say "HURR Kobe da GOAT LeChoke sucks" or "HURR LeBron da GOAT KoBrick sucks" :no:

[BlackVVaves]

Lying? What did i lie about? You just voted a less accomplished player over Lebron didnt you? Thats the only thing i touched.... and its fine, its your opinion, i just showed you with facts its a stupid opinion while you retaliated with insults instead of proving to me/us with factual proof to why your opinion is as it is, but its your opinion, so what the hell...

Once again, since you always insist on ignoring the points of any argument a poster engages with you:

1. Why don't you explain why you continue to use awards to compare Lebron to old legends such as Oscar and Jerry, when you very well know those awards did not exist in the era those legends played.
(I'll answer that question for you. It's because you wish to manipulate the casual fan/poster that is not knowledgeable in NBA history and does not recognize that those awards were not present for those legends to receive. Making Lebron seem greater than them based off a criteria that a impartial individual would never, EVER use.)

2. Find me a post in the last month, year, even three years that I constructed using awards other than MVP and FMVP to compare Kobe to other legends such as Jerry West or Moses Malone.

That's where you lied, and continue to lie Pauk. Don't think I'm too busy at work to call you out for your ignorance, because as long as you continue to fabricate arguments based on half truths or pure lies to discredit my, or any credible poster's credence, I'll be here to make sure you're attempts not only fail, but are highlighted from ISH to see.

Just because I don't wake up with Lebron's dick in my mouth every morning, doesn't mean I hate him. Likewise, just because I call you out for your nonsense doesn't mean I hate you. What I do strongly dislike is when people try and prompt Lebron up on a pedestal that he hadn't completed earned yet. What I do have great disdain for is when you push your agenda on this board, and attempt to discredit other great players in order to firmly place Lebron where your obsess believes he should be.

Lebron will be one of the top 5 players to ever play this game by the time he retires. But he is nowhere near that right now, and no amount of "Player of the Month" awards will change that. You know what will? Sustained dominance and team success in the form of championships. That is what will for me, and many other posters.

I dislike you Lebron stans just as much as the Kobe stans. You both are blinded by your dedication to one basketball player, which in itself is pathetic.

Get a grip on life boy.

[arifgokcen]

:applause: :applause:

Wait a minute :biggums:
This is ISH :no:
stop with all that realistic reasonable BS :rant
You're supposed to either say "HURR Kobe da GOAT LeChoke sucks" or "HURR LeBron da GOAT KoBrick sucks" :no:


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[DaSeba5]

LeBron is going to be in the top 10 eventually anyways, so it doesn't matter at this point.

[Legends66NBA7]

stop with all that realistic reasonable BS

There's actually more than enough of that on ISH by certain quality posters.

[Legends66NBA7]

I don't get what pauk's talking about not being a homer either or that there isn't bias in his posts, in this thread alone (KG215 pointed that out earlier).

Also, didn't he make a thread (that got deleted, I think...) about being happy or whatever... that the 2011 Heat didn't win the title, because it would have meant that Wade would have been Finals MVP over LeBron ?

And then there was this:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237702

I mean, just come out with it. Sometimes everyone is biased or a homer. Eventually, some people move on from a sport because their favourites don't play anymore.

[LongLiveTheKing]

Lebron

[Freedom Kid7]

Can't we all just get along and be friends? :D

[RRR3]

Can't we all just get along and be friends? :D
http://www.scenicreflections.com/ithumbs/the_wolf_hug_Wallpaper_x7pyd.jpg

[KG215]

I don't get what pauk's talking about not being a homer either or that there isn't bias in his posts, in this thread alone (KG215 pointed that out earlier).

Also, didn't he make a thread (that got deleted, I think...) about being happy or whatever... that the 2011 Heat didn't win the title, because it would have meant that Wade would have been Finals MVP over LeBron ?

And then there was this:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237702

I mean, just come out with it. Sometimes everyone is biased or a homer. Eventually, some people move on from a sport because their favourites don't play anymore.

I just can't believe he'd think he could keep using POTM and not get called on it. I'm not the first either, but he just likes to ignore it and/or make excuses when someone calls him on stuff like that. I mean at least use it to compare LeBron to players from the '01-'02 on when the award was given to a player from each conference, and definitely don't use it to compare LeBron to players who never had a chance to win the award.

Another one I don't like (and pauk's not the only one that does it) is using All-Star Game MVPs. I get it, a certain player was the best of the best for one night...in an exhibition game. It shouldn't be used to bolster a resume for an all-time list. Some players simply just don't care all that much about "bringing it" in an All-Star game, it heavily favors perimeter players, there's zero defense played in the first three quarters, and some players games just don't do well in that type of setting.

[KG215]

As for my vote, I'm going with Jerry West. I do think LeBron is in this tier of players now, even with just one ring, because his peak has been so good, and the playoff run he put together this year was incredible. However, I still think it's a little too early to vote for him at #11.

[Legends66NBA7]

I mean at least use it to compare LeBron to players from the '01-'02 on when the award was given to a player from each conference, and definitely don't use it to compare LeBron to players who never had a chance to win the award.

Agreed.

Also, the DPOY voting. The award didn't even exist in Oscar and West's time... that got me confused than using POTM.

And Dantley, Gervin, and King in contention with Moses for best player in 83 ?


Another one I don't like (and pauk's not the only one that does it) is using All-Star Game MVPs.

Yeah, those are completely pointless in terms of who's most accomplished.

There's virtually no defense being played for like more than 3 quarters of a ASG, unless it's the game is close and the players start to turn it up on D.

[BigTicket]

Lebron James

[AK47DR91]

LeBron James

[KG215]

Agreed.

Also, the DPOY voting. The award didn't even exist in Oscar and West's time... that got me confused than using POTM.

And Dantley, Gervin, and King in contention with Moses for best player in 83 ?



Yeah, those are completely pointless in terms of who's most accomplished.

There's virtually no defense being played for like more than 3 quarters of a ASG, unless it's the game is close and the players start to turn it up on D.

Yeah, I forgot all about DPOY not being awarded until the early 80s.

[KG215]

Originally Posted by pauk
......................Lebron............Oscar..... .........West..........
MVP...................3...................1....... .............0..............
FMVP..................1..................0........ ............1...............
CHAMP...............1(the man).....1(sidekick)......1(sidekick)..
ROTY................Yes................Yes........ .........No.............
DPOY..............RunnerUp.........No............. .....No.............
1st All-NBA.........6...................9................. ..10.............
1st All-Def..........4...................0................ ....4..............
All-Star MVP........2...................3.................. .1..............
All-Star..............8...................12.......... .......14..............
POTM................20..................0......... ..........0...............
Best Player?.......Yes..............Never.............N ever...........

So, for those of you who may not know....

He uses two awards to compare LeBron to West and Robertson that didn't exist during West and Oscar's careers.

Defensive Player of the Year: 1982-1983 was the first season they awarded DPOY.

Player of the Month: 1979-1980 was the first season this was awarded. 2001-2002 was the first season the award was given to a player from both conferences.

Both West and Robertson retired after the 1973-1974 season.

[BuffaloBill]

:roll: :roll: If you look through the pages there are people who voted for Lebron more than once. Lebron fans are funny



I vote Lebron though. I wonder how he only got 1 vote last round

[Colbertnation64]

Jerry West

[IGotACoolStory]

http://cdn.tss.uproxx.com/TSS/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/isiah-thomas.jpg

[Lordragoonx1x]

Lebron is right now #11.

[MrWarrior]

Jerry West.

[BlackVVaves]

So, for those of you who may not know....

He uses two awards to compare LeBron to West and Robertson that didn't exist during West and Oscar's careers.

Defensive Player of the Year: 1982-1983 was the first season they awarded DPOY.

Player of the Month: 1979-1980 was the first season this was awarded. 2001-2002 was the first season the award was given to a player from both conferences.

Both West and Robertson retired after the 1973-1974 season.

Exactly and thank you.

Also agree with you and Legend's sentiments on using ASG MVPs. I also don't place ant weight on them at all. If a player was great enough in his era, there are more formidable accolades and achievements that would drive home the same premise as a MVP for an All Star Game.

[magnax1]

Moses Malone

[BlackVVaves]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Pauk suddenly went mute until those of us that questioned him seemingly log off ISH for the day.

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

[hangintheair]

The Big O Oscar Robertson

[KG215]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Pauk suddenly went mute until those of us that questioned him seemingly log off ISH for the day.

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

Yeah, I've noticed in a lot of the ridiculous threads he starts he only posts that one time in the OP, and never responds again after being called out on some of his BS.

[Deuce Bigalow]

OP hates Wilt, so he ended both votings that had Wilt close to second way too prematurely. Bird won with 27 votes, almost half of what some other spots needed, and the other ones were a much bigger difference than 4 votes. Obvious bias is obvious.
No

#5 Thread made on 8/20 8:36 PM
#6 Thread made on 8/21 12:06 PM

15 hours

That is longer than almost every thread.

I posted the wrong results, here was the most updated results on #5

#5 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops Voting

32- Larry Bird
29- Wilt Chamberlain
3- Kobe Bryant
2- Shaquille O'Neal
1- Julius Erving
1- Lebron James

[Deuce Bigalow]

I find it strange that OP ended the voting for #5 between Bird/Wilt with only a total vote of 56 with a very small margin of 4 between them. Yet he let the voting for #8 between Kobe/Duncan go on for a total of 124 votes with a margin of 8 between them. Then #10 voting was over in a flash.
The #5 thread went on 15 hours. Longer than nearly all the others.

[Niquesports]

Jerry West


Funny how history has been changed over the years. As teammates Elgin was the clear better player. Injuries slowed him down and Jerry took off . But at there pick withoout question Elgin wqs the better player

[SilkkTheShocker]

Barkley...Statistically is Actual Closer to Top 10

Top 10 All Time In EFF
Top 10 All Time in Season PER
Top 9 All Time in Play-Off PER
Top 5 All Time in Plus/Minus (+/-)
Top 4 All Time In Shot Made/Missed Diferential
Top 8 All Time in WS Per 48 Minutes


Put down the bath salts, bro.

I vote Lebron :pimp:

[pauk]

Once again, since you always insist on ignoring the points of any argument a poster engages with you:

1. Why don't you explain why you continue to use awards to compare Lebron to old legends such as Oscar and Jerry, when you very well know those awards did not exist in the era those legends played.


For the same reason Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain is compared to Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and such...

FMVP, DPOY, 3PT line, steals, blocks didnt exist back then for example, so you work with what a player had and what a player did not have... you can either go with hypothetic opinions like: "Russell would have 11 FMVPs if that award did exist back then", that would make him the GOAT wouldnt it? or you can go with facts... "He had none"...

With your logic, Russell should be the GOAT considering he hypothetically could have got many FMVPs...

It doesnt work that way...



2. Find me a post in the last month, year, even three years that I constructed using awards other than MVP and FMVP to compare Kobe to other legends such as Jerry West or Moses Malone.

Why should i? Even if i did, what would that prove? I dont get this one to be honest with you...



That's where you lied, and continue to lie Pauk. Don't think I'm too busy at work to call you out for your ignorance, because as long as you continue to fabricate arguments based on half truths or pure lies to discredit my, or any credible poster's credence, I'll be here to make sure you're attempts not only fail, but are highlighted from ISH to see.

What? Where? When? Lie? Failed attempts? What the hell are you talking about?



Just because I don't wake up with Lebron's dick in my mouth every morning, doesn't mean I hate him.

Sure, but if you do discredit what a player has accomplished then there is a reason some human might question your agenda...



Likewise, just because I call you out for your nonsense doesn't mean I hate you. What I do strongly dislike is when people try and prompt Lebron up on a pedestal that he hadn't completed earned yet.

Pedestal #11 is where Lebrons accomplishments are at, not any higher, you could debate Jerry West, Moses Malone and Oscar Robertson using different criterias, but thats the pedestal he is at based on not my opinion, but the accomplishments you see right infront of your eyes i often here presented for you.



What I do have great disdain for is when you push your agenda on this board, and attempt to discredit other great players in order to firmly place Lebron where your obsess believes he should be.


wow... thats actually EXACTLY how i wanted to portray you, so do mind reading & considering what you just said.

I mean... what is my agenda anyways? Tell me? Do i want to boost Lebron to somewhere where he doesnt belong you think? How come? Didnt i just show you his accomplishments compared to those others who accomplished less?

But you? Its YOU who just discredited a greater career in order to firmly place someone else where your obsess believes he should be.

Reversed psychology my friend, when you try to portray someone else when infact you are actually talking about only yourself...


Lebron will be one of the top 5 players to ever play this game by the time he retires. But he is nowhere near that right now, and no amount of "Player of the Month" awards will change that.

Who said anything about POTM boosting Lebron to Top 5? What the hell...



You know what will? Sustained dominance and team success in the form of championships. That is what will for me, and many other posters.

I guess so....



I dislike you Lebron stans just as much as the Kobe stans. You both are blinded by your dedication to one basketball player, which in itself is pathetic.

Did you just call me a Lebron stan for showing you STRONG FACTS & ACCOMPLISHMENTS to why Lebron should be #11?

Thats all i did, me liking Lebron has NOTHING to do with this....

Tired of people like you immediately excusing your lack of retaliation by commenting about that guy being a stan... because you cant retaliate... who can retaliate facts which proves your statement wrong afterall...

Either present me with facts to why Jerry West, Oscar Robertson should be above Lebron or stop wasting my time with that nonsense....

[krazymofo]

Jerry West

[pauk]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Pauk suddenly went mute until those of us that questioned him seemingly log off ISH for the day.

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

I am not here 24-7, but i will reply your absurd babble whenever i have time.... I just wonder how long you truly think you can go with your misdirectional posts...

1. I showed Lebrons accomplishments next to West, Oscar, Malone... showing you why Lebron should be #11...
2. You still voted for a less accomplished player...
3. I asked simply why, i respect your opinion, have nothing against it, i was just interested thats all...
4. You couldnt retaliate, so instead you just started to ramble about something completely else, insulted me, called me a Lebron stan and so on and so on...

So you see, me going mute is only a wish for YOU... because only then could you ignore those facts i presented for you and then you could continue to live in a fantasy world of yours where your opinions is all the "facts" you need...

[KG215]

I am not here 24-7, but i will reply your absurd babble whenever i have time.... I just wonder how long you truly think you can go with your misdirectional posts...

Why don't you tell us why you insist on using pointless awards like ASG and awards that didn't exist in the eras of some of the players you're making a case for LeBron to be ranked ahead of?

I mean you even include DPOY to use for LeBron vs. West and Oscar, even go as far to mention LeBron is a 1x DPOY runner-up, and make no mention that the award DIDN'T EXIST when West an Oscar were playing.

[fsvr54]

Moses Malone

[pauk]

Why don't you tell us why you insist on using pointless awards like ASG and awards that didn't exist in the eras of some of the players you're making a case for LeBron to be ranked ahead of?

I mean you even include DPOY to use for LeBron vs. West and Oscar, even go as far to mention LeBron is a 1x DPOY runner-up, and make no mention that the award DIDN'T EXIST when West an Oscar were playing.

I presented you with ALL NBA accomplishments (minus the milestones, records, stats and so on)... thats all i did... then its up to you..

Whatever accomplishments you want to compare Lebron with West, Moses and Oscar... go ahead, he has them beat, except the longevity accomplishments (all-star selections for example)...

...and please stop confusing me with a Lebron stan, if West had a Championship where he was THE MAN of instead and all those MVPs then i would call him better.... but thats not the case... its extremly simple... that "But ur teh just teh Lebron stan!!!!onee!11" excuse wont work here...

[waseem780]

LeBron James

[AlphaWolf24]

What's really strange is....for years we heard 'winning is overrated"....."winning is a team acomplishment"....__________ (fill in star who won) only wins because of a great team"

- Now that Lebron won a Title in a asterik season he is now the 11th greatest player according to ISH...he basically jumped at least 15 spots:roll:

for winning a title.

- yet the same criteria doesn't go for other superstars who won more...alot more.

:hammerhead:

[Sarcastic]

Why don't you tell us why you insist on using pointless awards like ASG and awards that didn't exist in the eras of some of the players you're making a case for LeBron to be ranked ahead of?

I mean you even include DPOY to use for LeBron vs. West and Oscar, even go as far to mention LeBron is a 1x DPOY runner-up, and make no mention that the award DIDN'T EXIST when West an Oscar were playing.


He makes no mention that the standards have changed on how some awards are given out. For instance the MVP used to be based on player vote, rather than media.



I guess in a few years when Lebron moves up, and we compare him to Jordan, we can use "Slam Dunk Champions" on the list. :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron James

1x Champion
1x Finals MVP
3x MVP
8x All-Star
8x All-NBA Selections
4x All-Defensive Selections
1x Scoring Champion

Jerry West? Lebron accomplished just as much in a tougher era. The league doesn't compare to what it is now.

Moses Malone? 1 ring, 1 finals mvp, 3 mvps...Lebron has all that.

Oscar? 1 ring as an old man behind Kareem, 0 finals mvps. Lebron's 27-7-7 career average in this era is better than Oscar's triple doubles in the 60s era which had an all-time high pace. He wouldn't that that in this era that's for sure.

Isiah? Don't know why he got 2 votes. Isn't even in the conversation, Lebron is just better.

David Robinson? Got 1 vote, but he never led a team to a title like Lebron has.

Barkely? Lebron has accomplished much more in his career

[Sarcastic]

I presented you with ALL NBA accomplishments (minus the milestones, records, stats and so on)... thats all i did... then its up to you..

Whatever accomplishments you want to compare Lebron with West, Moses and Oscar... go ahead, he has them beat, except the longevity accomplishments (all-star selections for example)...

...and please stop confusing me with a Lebron stan, if West had a Championship where he was THE MAN of instead and all those MVPs then i would call him better.... but thats not the case... its extremly simple... that "But ur teh just teh Lebron stan!!!!onee!11" excuse wont work here...


Lebron never went up against a dynasty like the 1960s Boston Celtics.

Not all rings are equal, and not all awards are equal. Get it through your skull.

[Odinn]

Moses Malone? 1 ring, 1 finals mvp, 3 mvps...Lebron has all that.
Moses Malone 17834 career rebounds
LeBron James 19045 career points

[KG215]

For the same reason Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain is compared to Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and such...
I've never seen anyone do what you're doing. You're doing a "side-by-side resume" comparison for LeBron, Jerry West, and Oscar Robertson, and including awards and honors that didn't exist when two of those were playing. That'd be exactly like me using FMVP as a category, putting a 6 in Jordan's column, and a 0 in Russell's, knowing the casual fan may think Russell must not have been as good as Jordan because he won 0 FMVPs to Jordan's 6.


FMVP, DPOY, 3PT line, steals, blocks didnt exist back then for example, so you work with what a player had and what a player did not have... you can either go with hypothetic opinions like: "Russell would have 11 FMVPs if that award did exist back then", that would make him the GOAT wouldnt it? or you can go with facts... "He had none"...
Do you really not see how stupid and ignorant this makes you look? I mean are you so deeply obsessed with LeBron that you've become completely void of logic? How in the world is it fair to go with facts in that instance? How in the hell is it fair to say LeBron has 20 POTM awards to West's and Robertson's 0, say you're just stating facts, and COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that POTM wasn't an award when West and Robertson were playing?

I'll say it again....if you're going to compare 2 or 3 players by doing a resume comparison, and there is an award or honor that didn't exist during the time of one or two of the players, but did for the other(s), THEN JUST DON'T USE IT! It really is that simple.


With your logic, Russell should be the GOAT considering he hypothetically could have got many FMVPs...

It doesnt work that way...
How? That's not what he's saying...AT ALL. He, I, nor anyone else are saying West, Robertson, or Moses Malone would have close to 20 POTM awards if it existed during their careers. All we're saying is it's not fair to use it when it didn't exist during their careers but did in LeBron's. Same with DPOY an DPOY voting. Don't use "LeBron 1x DPOY runner-up" unless you mention the award didn't exist during West's and Robertson's career.



Sure, but if you do discredit what a player has accomplished then there is a reason some human might question your agenda...
He's not trying to discredit what LeBron did, neither am I. We're just trying to get you to realize how unfair and ignorant it is to build-up LeBron and argue why he's better by using awards that didn't exist during the career of the payers you're comparing him to.



Pedestal #11 is where Lebrons accomplishments are at, not any higher, you could debate Jerry West, Moses Malone and Oscar Robertson using different criterias, but thats the pedestal he is at based on not my opinion, but the accomplishments you see right infront of your eyes i often here presented for you.
That's exactly what it is. You think LeBron is #11 all-time because of his accomplishments. Yes, those accomplishments are facts, but you thinking he's #11 all-time because of those facts is your opinion.


But you? Its YOU who just discredited a greater career in order to firmly place someone else where your obsess believes he should be.
Nice. Casually throw in there that LeBron has had a greater career like it's an indisputable fact.


Who said anything about POTM boosting Lebron to Top 5? What the hell...
That's not what he's saying at all. He's saying how stupid it is to use POTM to compare LeBron to Oscar and West. Maybe if I say it a few thousand more times, it'll finally register in that dense head of yours, and you'll stop doing it.


Tired of people like you immediately excusing your lack of retaliation by commenting about that guy being a stan... because you cant retaliate... who can retaliate facts which proves your statement wrong afterall...

Either present me with facts to why Jerry West, Oscar Robertson should be above Lebron or stop wasting my time with that nonsense....
He's not saying you're wrong about LeBron being #11. Nowhere in that post did he say that. He did say LeBron will more than likely be top 5 by the time his career is over, but he's nowhere near that right now. That's not him saying LeBron shouldn't be #11.

Thing is, I don't even have a problem with LeBron at #11, or #12-#15. I just hate the way you're going about arguing for LeBron over the other candidates for the spot.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Moses Malone 17834 career rebounds
LeBron James 19045 career points
How about 10 40pt playoff games and 53 30pt playoff games to how many for Moses?

[Kblaze8855]

Listing player of the months for Lebron with a zero next to players who didnt have a chance to win one really is one of the most pathetic tactics ive ever seen used here. And defending it is proof enough that the person saying it shouldnt be taken serious.

Its the worst kind of manipulation and its so obvious that the only reasonable response to being called out on it should be "Yea...you got me".

[Odinn]

How about 10 40pt playoff games and 53 30pt playoff games to how many for Moses?
How many 15+ or 20+ board playoff games for LeBron?

My point was, right now LeBron can compete with Moses' career awards but not on career totals or -longevity-. Moses Malone was a 20/10 guy for 11 straight seasons and he was only 1.1 ppg away for 12th one. LeBron just completed his 8th season.

[no pun intended]

Larry skyrocketed from 4 votes to 32 votes :roll:

Anyhow, I vote for West.

[jalbert009]

Oscar RObertson!

[Dave3]

No

#5 Thread made on 8/20 8:36 PM
#6 Thread made on 8/21 12:06 PM

15 hours

That is longer than almost every thread.

I posted the wrong results, here was the most updated results on #5
So it was 3 votes away and you ended it? You had no problem making other threads longer under the excuse that it was close before, and now you end threads with a 3 vote difference. That's some crazy obvious bias.

[pauk]

What's really strange is....for years we heard 'winning is overrated"....."winning is a team acomplishment"....__________ (fill in star who won) only wins because of a great team"

- Now that Lebron won a Title in a asterik season he is now the 11th greatest player according to ISH...he basically jumped at least 15 spots:roll:

for winning a title.

- yet the same criteria doesn't go for other superstars who won more...alot more.

:hammerhead:

Its about the context...

[Punpun]

Oscar.

[KG215]

I do and they were not DPOY runner ups... :confusedshrug:

Oh, and how about this gem...he striaght up LIES and says West and Robertson weren't DPOY runner-ups. Clear as day manipulation in response to someone telling him to include DPOY runner-ups for the other players since he did it for LeBron.

Why, pauk, didn't you tell him that poster thetruth and tell him that DPOY wasn't awarded at any point in West's and Robertson's careers?

[pauk]

Oh, and how about this gem...he striaght up LIES and says West and Robertson weren't DPOY runner-ups. Clear as day manipulation in response to someone telling him to include DPOY runner-ups for the other players since he did it for LeBron.

Why, pauk, didn't you tell him that poster thetruth and tell him that DPOY wasn't awarded at any point in West's and Robertson's careers?

What? So they were DPOY runner ups?

Ehm... they were not DPOY runner ups because:

1. DPOY didnt exist during their days
2. They were not that good defensively, especially not Oscar Robertson... so even if it would exist its extremly unlikely they would have been any DPOY runner ups...

Dont make your brain bleed...

[Sarcastic]

'Bronze wouldn't even be the runner up if he played in the 1960s, with Russell and Wilt in the league.

[Overdrive]

What? So they were DPOY runner ups?

Ehm... they were not DPOY runner ups because:

1. DPOY didnt exist during their days


Don't you see the problem regarding this?

[KG215]

Ehm... they were not DPOY runner ups because:

1. DPOY didnt exist during their days

STOP...stop right there. That's all you need to know. As soon as you realized or knew this, you shouldn't have included it as part of your resume comparisons. At that point absolutely nothing else matters. Not subjective things like your opinion on who the better defender was, or who the general NBA fan population thought was the better defender, nothing. All you needed to know is that the award did not exist when two of the players you're comparing LeBron to were playing.

I thought KennethGriffin was as bad as it got when it came to ruthlessly and ignorantly defending his favorite poster. I was wrong, you're just as bad, if not worse.

I do not give two shits whether or not you or anyone else thought Oscar Robertson and Jerry West were good defenders.

You don't get to us the cop-out of "LeBron is the better defender of the three, though" to excuse your ignorance.

That's not the point you dumbass. How hard is that to understand? I've called you out repeatedly the last two days on this and you still can't seem to comprehend what I and everyone else is trying to tell you. Notice, out of all the times you've tried to defend your reasoning for using things like POTM and DPOY to compare LeBron to Robertson and West, NO ONE has defended you, but plenty of posters have called you out on your stupidity.



Dont make your brain bleed...
I'm not making my brain bleed, you are.


And none of that excuses why you manipulated that poster who asked you why didn't include when West and Robertson were DPOY runner-up. Instead of telling them they didn't because the award didn't exist, you just told him they never finished runner-up in DPOY voting. You shouldn't be trying to manipulate someone into thinking LeBron is the better defender that way. He and any other poster should be presented with ALL the facts, and then be left to make that decision for themselves.

[AlonzoGOAT]

LeBron James is my vote and I can't believe people said Charles Barkley

[pauk]

KG215... With your logic, we should remove Michael Jordans 6 FMVPs when compared to Bill Russell because the FMVP didnt exist during Bill Russells time... awesome...

There is no point in going into hypothetics, its extremly subjective that way. Because hypothetically for example Bill Russell had at least 8 FMVPs or more considering he was the best player in his team at least 8 of those Finals... then you think about DPOY, hypothetically he won at least 8 DPOYs aswell considering its known he was the best defensive player in his era... 11 rings, 5 MVPs, 8 FMVPs, 8 DPOYs.... that would have made him the GOAT... with a ridicilously huge gap...

Do you want to play it that way?

But in Lebrons case against West and Oscar, they hypothetically would have NOT won any DPOY (or been runner ups)... especially not Oscar Robertson... they were not that good defensively... MVP did exist back then and Oscar had 1 and West had 0... FMVP did also exist during Wests Finals runs, he actually got his only FMVP when he didnt get a championship, when he did get a championship he was a sidekick next to a 35-15-4 (if i remember correctly) averaging Kareem... so no matter how you twist and turn it, Lebron was better, he accomplished more...

I know its extremly hard to digest that, especially as a Lebron hater... but you need to deal with it...

[KG215]

'Bronze wouldn't even be the runner up if he played in the 1960s, with Russell and Wilt in the league.

Exactly. If he's going to use the hypothetical excuse of "neither of them would've finished DPOY runner-up in their career anyway" then we get to do the same thing by pointing out LeBron wouldn't have either if the was playing in their era.

If the award existed during the 60's, the meat of West's and Robertson's careers, it would've been a battle between Russell and Chamberlain every single season for DPOY. They would've ran away with the voting and, at best, LeBron would've finished a VERY distant third in the voting.

[KG215]

KG215... With your logic, we should remove Michael Jordans 6 FMVPs when compared to Bill Russell because the FMVP didnt exist during Bill Russells time... awesome...

:oldlol:

This really shows how stupid and ignorant you are. I, nor anyone else is using FMVP when doing a side-by-side resume comparison between Jordan and Russell. I've NEVER seen anyone do that when arguing why one should be ranked over the other; and if I saw someone doing so I'd call them out on it.

You, on the other hand, are BLATANTLY doing just that with DPOY and POTM to argue why LeBron should be ranked higher than Robertson, West, and Moses.

[BrickingStar]

Lebron James

1x Champion
1x Finals MVP
3x MVP
8x All-Star
8x All-NBA Selections
4x All-Defensive Selections
1x Scoring Champion

Jerry West? Lebron accomplished just as much in a tougher era. The league doesn't compare to what it is now.

Moses Malone? 1 ring, 1 finals mvp, 3 mvps...Lebron has all that.

Oscar? 1 ring as an old man behind Kareem, 0 finals mvps. Lebron's 27-7-7 career average in this era is better than Oscar's triple doubles in the 60s era which had an all-time high pace. He wouldn't that that in this era that's for sure.

Isiah? Don't know why he got 2 votes. Isn't even in the conversation, Lebron is just better.

David Robinson? Got 1 vote, but he never led a team to a title like Lebron has.

Barkely? Lebron has accomplished much more in his career

:applause: I vote LeBron James and what are the current results anyway dude? Should start counting before this thread gets even longer

[1987_Lakers]

It would be hypocritical to vote Oscar Robertson over Jerry West if you voted Magic Johnson over Larry Bird.

Oscar Robertson was better in his peak, but Jerry West has him beat in longevity and he had far more team success.

Jerry West is my vote.

[KG215]

I'm sure I'm off +/- 2-3 for each. Some of the votes I counted for a player weren't 100% clear and I may have counted a couple or so by posters without 100 posts, but here's what I've got so far...

LeBron - 35
West - 13
Robertson - 14
Malone - 9

[BrickingStar]

I'm sure I'm off +/- 2-3 for each. Some of the votes I counted for a player weren't 100% clear and I may have counted a couple or so by posters without 100 posts, but here's what I've got so far...

LeBron - 35
West - 13
Robertson - 14
Malone - 9
Our greek god :bowdown: but how long did it take you to tally up those votes :coleman: :applause:

[pauk]

:oldlol:

This really shows how stupid and ignorant you are. I, nor anyone else is using FMVP when doing a side-by-side resume comparison between Jordan and Russell. I've NEVER seen anyone do that when arguing why one should be ranked over the other; and if I saw someone doing so I'd call them out on it.

You, on the other hand, are BLATANTLY doing just that with DPOY and POTM to argue why LeBron should be ranked higher than Robertson, West, and Moses.

Jesus ****ing Christ man.... forget about POTM/DPOY ok? Will that make you feel better? And I didnt use POTM/DPOY to catapult Lebron over anybody... I merelly presented all the NBA accomplishments on a sheet... POTM/DPOY just so happen to be there, oh mi oh my, what a blasphemy...

Forget about POTM/DPOY... fooooorrgeeet it... alright?

Now, how about you go back and concentrate on everything else, i am very interested to see how you want to excuse your way out of these accomplishments for example, im sure they did exist during Wests/Oscars time:

.....................Lebron........West........Osc ar.......
MVP..................3...............0............ ..1..........
FMVP.................1...............1............ ..0.........
CHAMP..............1...............1.............. 1..........

Championship context:
Lebron - Won the championship as the man, leader, best player in his team, had one of the 10 best playoff runs by a FMVP in NBA playoff history... he literally carried that team to a championship... that year he also won the MVP, had the most 1st all-NBA votes and had the most 1st all-defensive team votes, led the league in PER (aka. had the best stats), won a gold medal... and so on...
Oscar - Won the championship as a sidekick
West - Won the championship as a sidekick (the FMVP he got actually 3-4 years earlier if i remember correctly, despite not winning a championship)

Good luck....

[KG215]

Our greek god :bowdown: but how long did it take you to tally up those votes :coleman: :applause:

I started doing it after like page 7 or 8. After a new page was started, I just added the votes from the previous page. So, like 5 minutes to count the votes from the first 7-8 pages, and like 30 second for every other page after.

[Clifton]

I vote Lebron.

This last has turned out pretty well, guys. Good job. You know how it is with things like these, ... well I at least am never happy with them.

[lilblingy]

Jerry west

[Clifton]

I will be interested to see who wins between Jerry West and Oscar Robinson. I would also like to see old-timers argue about them. I've watched some footage of both. They're both great. Based on what I've watched I'd choose West.

[BrickingStar]

OP hurry and start 12 before someone insults Wilt and jlauber makes this a 20+ pg thread

[KG215]

Jesus ****ing Christ man.... forget about POTM/DPOY ok? Will that make you feel better? And I didnt use POTM/DPOY to catapult Lebron over anybody... I merelly presented all the NBA accomplishments on a sheet... POTM/DPOY just so happen to be there, oh mi oh my, what a blasphemy...

Forget about POTM/DPOY... fooooorrgeeet it... alright?

Now, how about you go back and concentrate on everything else, i am very interested to see how you want to excuse your way out of these accomplishments for example, im sure they did exist during Wests/Oscars time:

.....................Lebron........West........Osc ar.......
MVP..................3...............0............ ..1..........
FMVP.................1...............1............ ..0.........
CHAMP..............1...............1.............. 1..........

Good luck....

:applause:

FINALLY. This whole time (as I've pointed out several times) I didn't have a problem with you making a case for LeBron at #11 or voting for him at #11.

And whether you were using POTM of DPOY to catapult LeBron over the others isn't the point. When you do something like add to LeBron's resume "1 DPOY runner-up", and then tell a poster who asked why you didn't do the same for the other two that they never finished runner-up in DPOY voting, it shows your agenda, and shows that you're manipulatively trying to make LeBron look better.

He doesn't need your help. At 27 he's already got a resume good enough to have him in top 11-15 consideration.

[AlphaWolf24]

Its about the context...


Leaving a 63 win team with the best record in the NBA to join 2 other top 5 - 10 players....making the HEAT the most stacked team ( maybe) of alltime

- then putting up the biggest choke job in the History of the NBA Finals ( for a superstar)

- winning during a asterisk season....

context???


come on now Pau - Pau!

[pauk]

:applause:

FINALLY. This whole time (as I've pointed out several times) I didn't have a problem with you making a case for LeBron at #11 or voting for him at #11.


Fair enough...



When you do something like add to LeBron's resume "1 DPOY runner-up", and then tell a poster who asked why you didn't do the same for the other two that they never finished runner-up in DPOY voting, it shows your agenda, and shows that you're manipulatively trying to make LeBron look better.

Why? I thought i explained that thousand times... because Lebron was a runner up (and ended up top 5 actually 3 years in a row) and because hypothetically Oscar/West would have not been runner ups or won the DPOY even if it did exist during their time, especially not Oscar...

Has nothing to do with agenda, i just showed you what a player has and what a player doesnt have... but ok, forget about DPOY and POTM (which is not significant compared MVP, FMVP, Championship anyways)




He doesn't need your help. At 27 he's already got a resume good enough to have him in top 11-15 consideration.

I am perfectly aware of that, but others here apparently need my help.... if everybody were fully aware of Lebrons, Wests, Oscars, Moses accomplishments and compared it all to eachother then i wouldnt have to give that "help"....











PS: ALPHAWOLF24.... that trolling didnt bait me this time...

[Kews1]

Lebron is a better player than Kobe, should be Lebron 10 Kobe 11.

http://files.sharenator.com/i_aint_even_mad_RE_You_mad_Bro-s630x493-193975.jpg

[Clifton]

- winning during a asterisk season....
Come on now. This season may have had fewer games but it was a *compressed season*. And how many fewer games were there? 16? I think it's actually more of an honor to have won during a compressed season with a million distractions.

[Clifton]

gosh, speaking of distractions, Kews1... is that anyone famous that I need to spend the next 4 hours googling?

[Kews1]

gosh, speaking of distractions, Kews1... is that anyone famous that I need to spend the next 4 hours googling?

just your regular run of the mill meme girl :oldlol:

[Clifton]

I see.

Well, she's very attractive.

What were we talking about?

[AlphaWolf24]

Fair enough...



Why? I thought i explained that thousand times... because Lebron was a runner up (and ended up top 5 actually 3 years in a row) and because hypothetically Oscar/West would have not been runner ups or won the DPOY even if it did exist during their time, especially not Oscar...

Has nothing to do with agenda, i just showed you what a player has and what a player doesnt have... but ok, forget about DPOY and POTM (which is not significant compared MVP, FMVP, Championship anyways)




I am perfectly aware of that, but others here apparently need my help.... if everybody were fully aware of Lebrons, Wests, Oscars, Moses accomplishments and compared it all to eachother then i wouldnt have to give that "help"....











PS: ALPHAWOLF24.... that trolling didnt bait me this time...


I'm just curious how the most dominant player of alltime (Wilt) get's put behind players like MJ , Kareem etc....for bieng labeled a "choker"...."didn't win as much as MJ" blah...blah...blah...

but Lebron James quits on a 63 win team (back 2 back 63 win team) and puts up the biggest choke job in NBA History.....and he moves up at minimum 15 spots????....

[Overdrive]

I'm just curious how the most dominant player of alltime (Wilt) get's put behind players like MJ , Kareem etc....for bieng labeled a "choker"...."didn't win as much as MJ" blah...blah...blah...

but Lebron James quits on a 63 win team (back 2 back 63 win team) and puts up the biggest choke job in NBA History.....and he moves up at minimum 15 spots????....

How did kobe move up on the AT lists after '09?

His '05-'07 seasons weren't that mucb of an success either, how could he jump into the top 10?

[AlphaWolf24]

How did kobe move up on the AT lists after '09?

His '05-'07 seasons weren't that mucb of an success either, how could he jump into the top 10?


- before 09' he was already a 3X NBA Champion and top 10 scorer in NBA History (pretty sure) 12X allstar and 8 - 9 X all NBA / all NBA Defensive player..(somewhere around there)...(not even mentioning all the iconic moments in fans memories...81...9 str8 40 point games , buzzer beaters etc.)

I think in 08' he was around 11 - 13th alltime...


- since then he won 2 more Titles.....and moved up into the top 5 - 7th place.....



- Lebron wins 1 after a horrific 2011' finals and moves up 15 - 20 spots???

[KG215]

I can't think of anywhere I saw Kobe being mentioned as 11th-13th all-time in 2008. Maybe in your mind and the mind of other Kobe stans, but I don't think any credible all-time top 25/50/100 list had Kobe in their top 15 in 2008. He was more in the 20-25 range at that point.

[pauk]

I'm just curious how the most dominant player of alltime (Wilt) get's put behind players like MJ , Kareem etc....for bieng labeled a "choker"...."didn't win as much as MJ" blah...blah...blah...

but Lebron James quits on a 63 win team (back 2 back 63 win team) and puts up the biggest choke job in NBA History.....and he moves up at minimum 15 spots????....

I dont look into that criteria "choker" unless ofcourse that player choked most or half of his career, fact is ALL players in NBA history "choked" at one point.... its perfectly natural to not play like a GOD 24-7....

But "Wilt didnt accomplish as much as MJ", is a very true statement i would say...

As far as Lebron goes, sigh... Winning 63 games in a regular season means absolutely nothing, its in the Playoffs where the best teams reveal themselves, in 7 games the opposing team can easily figure you out... and figuring out that 63 win Cavs team was particulary easy... just double-triple team Lebron, dont allow him to get anywhere near the basket whatsoever, let everybody else beat ya... and he didnt have the supporting cast to let "everybody else beat ya"...

Lebron put up biggest choke job in History? Not even close... hell even my favorite player of all time played worse once in the Finals with two back to back 8 point games and just overall horrible productions by his standards (Larry Bird in 1981, where Maxwell won the FMVP and they won the championship anyways), how about Tragic Magic? How about Wilt Chamberlain? How about your man Kobe Bryant, remember when he averaged 14 ppg in 2000 Finals? How about Kobe in 2004? Many more examples.... I dont discredit any of them, im just retaliating your ridicilous statement.... but you are a famous Lebron hater, so i did expect that... The numbers Lebron put up in that Finals 18-7-7 @ 48% FG is what Magic Johnson won championships with.... but by Lebrons standards that indeed is nothing special...

calling Lebron a choker for playing 2-4 bad games in the Finals and forget everything else he did is absolutely stupid... thats only a wish, a typical wish from a Lebron hater...

Whats funny is that you are a Kobe fan, who is a guy that was much less efficient in that department... want some facts on that? Believe me it will hurt you... If Lebron is a choker, than Kobe is even more of a choker...

Here is something for you:







37-97 .360% in game 7's
38-108 .352% in title winning games
41% in 37 finals games
66-163 .400% to win finals mvp.. lowest fg% for any Finals MVP
14-56 .250% game winning shots
yup
Kobe


http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GWinners-Playoffs.png

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Kobe-GWinners-Playoffs.png




A Kobe fan calling Lebron a choker or not clutch is the most funniest thing on earth...

[L.Kizzle]

Elgin Baylor

http://www.ginuwine.com/style/common/images/coverArt.jpg

[crisoner]

LeBron James over West, Oscar, Karl and Moses Malone etc. is blasphemy.
Idoit kids man...

If his career ended today he would not be over those guys.

[Deuce Bigalow]

So it was 3 votes away and you ended it? You had no problem making other threads longer under the excuse that it was close before, and now you end threads with a 3 vote difference. That's some crazy obvious bias.
It was left up the longest between the top 5.

[Deuce Bigalow]

#11 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops Voting

37- Lebron James
16- Jerry West
11- Oscar Robertson
2- Isiah Thomas
1- David Robinson
1- Charles Barkley
1- Elgin Baylor

[Overdrive]

LeBron James over West, Oscar, Karl and Moses Malone etc. is blasphemy.
Idoit kids man...

If his career ended today he would not be over those guys.

Don't know if he would, but he should. Just because they're legends doesn't mean they're to be regarded higher on the AT list.



- before 09' he was already a 3X NBA Champion and top 10 scorer in NBA History (pretty sure) 12X allstar and 8 - 9 X all NBA / all NBA Defensive player..(somewhere around there)...(not even mentioning all the iconic moments in fans memories...81...9 str8 40 point games , buzzer beaters etc.)

I think in 08' he was around 11 - 13th alltime...


- since then he won 2 more Titles.....and moved up into the top 5 - 7th place.....



- Lebron wins 1 after a horrific 2011' finals and moves up 15 - 20 spots???

It was an rhethorical question actually, but anyway, what I was trying to say was exactly that there was winning a(multiple) championships inbetween.

I think actually, same for Kobe and Lebron, people had an hypothetical spot for the respective player in their minds before they won(in case of Kobe as the clear cut 1st option). I guess many people had Lebron in their mind already in the 15 greatest range if he won, and he won. Same for Kobe as an top 10 player AT if he won #4 as the 1st option. They both did it and so their once hypothetical spots were justified for those guys putting them there in the first place.

[BlackVVaves]

Came here to check in and rebut whatever response Pauk's abnormally elevated levels of dedication to Lebron drove him to, but alas, KG215 and KBlaze have said everything that could truly be said to address Pauk's tactics. Cheers to the whims of men of intellect :applause:

Pauk, as KG215 reiterated, though it is my own opinion that Jerry West is the 11th greatest player of all time (and Lebron is 12th), my issue is not your vote or opinion. It is that are quite manipulative in your manuvering on this site, and molding of facts. That is why I and many others label you a Lebron stan, and will continue to do so until you relinquish your tainted efforts of shoving Lebron's perceived greatness down our throats. Because, all of you "stans" are alike in that. It's not what you believe, but how you go about justifying that belief. You and a poster like Kennethgriffin only differ in your tactics. Griffin attempts to abruptly and annoyingly push his agenda, while you attempt to be cunning and conspicuous. But, the same flawed judgement is shared by both of you. Not the judgement that suggests Kobe is Top 5 All Time, or Lebron will be the GOAT. It is your judgement that allows you to go on for 15 pages ignoring and then defending your reasoning behind using insignificant or incomparable achievements.

You also are flawed in your vision that anyone who doesn't think Lebron is the greatest player the Earth has ever welcomed and simultaneously doesn't think Kobe is the worst player to ever live is a "hater" or "Kobe nut hugger." Posters like myself, KG215, and others call it how we see it, as best as we can and as impartial as we can be. It doesn't mean we share the same opinions on every facet of basketball, but we are honest in our approach, something you clearly are not. I have routinely said Kobe is currently not higher than #7 on the All Time list - I have him #8 on mine - but no lower than #10. Which is a truth I'm sure you'd readily accept if it didn't mean that the player you wish of all things to be the greatest of all time in every individual's mind would have to achieve more to surpass, like all the other greats he would have to (and one day will). But, because someone doesn't believe Lebron is the god of basketball gods, you make every attempt to discredit them and any player that is in Lebron's career's peripheral vision.

I've seen you say things like Lebron had as good competition this year as Bird did in 84. Good god man, it's ashame someone can sometimes be so knowledgable as you can be at times, and yet so utterly skewed in your perspective that the ignorance bell rings every time you touch a keyboard.

Lebron is a great player and will be even greater as time goes on. He doesn't need virtual ghosts like you to hoist him up in any ill-mannered way; you, like the other player-based fanatics on this board, afford him more harm than good when doing so.

That is all.

[Freedom Kid7]

Tragic Magic
*Tragic Johnson.

[L.Kizzle]

Current Results

36- Lebron James
16- Jerry West
11- Oscar Robertson
2- Isiah Thomas
1- David Robinson
1- Charles Barkley
1- Elgin Baylor
:biggums:

[pauk]

Noof - West
Longhornfan1234 - Moses
arifgokcen - Lebron
coin24 - Moses
Quickening - Lebron
LosBulls - Lebron
DirtySanchez - Oscar
East_Stone_Ye - Isiah
TalvsCual - D.Robinson
alenleomessi - Lebron
RoundMound - Barkley
Harison - West
Lebron23 - Lebron
Horatio33 - West
KingJames99 - Lebron
SuckaFree - Lebron
Kobe143 - West
INDI - Oscar
G.O.A.T - Oscar
brownmamba00 - West
raiderfan19 - Lebron
Alan Ogg - Lebron
DaSeba5 - Lebron
iDunk - West
CarlosBoozer - Lebron
Dragonyeuw - Lebron
Dg#8 - Moses
raid09 - Lebron
raprap - Oscar
Lakers_Forever - Moses
WhiteMamba - Moses
RRR3 - Lebron
oolala - West
lilgodfather1 - Lebron
BruceLeeBowen - Lebron
Sarcastic - Oscar
scandisk - Oscar
Sakkreth - Lebron
franchiez - Oscar
Pauk - Lebron
Kingbeasley08 - Lebron
Duncan21mvp - Moses
Mr_Clutch_Melo - Lebron
Nash - Lebron
BoutPractice - Lebron
Riseagainst - Oscar
Heavincent - Moses
PyrrhusX - Oscar
po3try - Lebron
Pushxx - Oscar
Heilige - Lebron
DaHeezy - Oscar? (big mo, a typo maybe)
Mirko Cro Cop - Lebron
Lakersfan2046 - Oscar
SpecialQue - Moses
sagr32 - Lebron
StateOfMind12 - Lebron
KennethGriffin - Lebron
Freedom Kid7 - West
LongLiveTheKing - Lebron
KG215 - West
BigTicket - Lebron
AK47DR91 - Lebron
Colbertnation64 - West
Igotacoolstory - Isiah
Lorddragoonx1x - Lebron?
MrWarrior - West
Magnax1 - Moses
hanginintheair - Oscar
SillkkTheShocker - Lebron
KrazyMofo - West
fsvr54 - Moses
waseem780 - Lebron
Deuce Bigalow - Lebron
no pun intended - West
jalbert009 - Oscar
Punpun - Oscar
AlonzoGOAT - Lebron
BrickingStar - Lebron
1987 Lakers - West
Clifton - Lebron
lilblingy - West
L.Kizzle - Baylor
RoundMoundofReb - Lebron



LEBRON - 38 (39?)
OSCAR - 14 (15?)
WEST - 14
MOSES - 11
OSCAR -
ISIAH - 2
D.ROBINSON - 1
BARKLEY - 1


Just helping you out Deuce... :)


(AS OF POST #213)

[Dave3]

It was left up the longest between the top 5.
So? In the playoff runs thread you allowed the LeBron vs. Bird one to go DAYS longer than any other one. All other votes were very big margins except for the two involving Wilt. Once again, your agenda is obvious. You're not really fooling anyone. It's ok to admit it, it just defeats the purpose of having a vote if you're going to be deciding who wins.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Moses Malone or Lebron i'll go with lebron;

[Deuce Bigalow]

@ pauk, Posters need to have 100 posts to vote, and 'big mo' is probably Moses Malone.

[Deuce Bigalow]

So? In the playoff runs thread you allowed the LeBron vs. Bird one to go DAYS longer than any other one. All other votes were very big margins except for the two involving Wilt. Once again, your agenda is obvious. You're not really fooling anyone. It's ok to admit it, it just defeats the purpose of having a vote if you're going to be deciding who wins.
That's because votes wouldn't stop coming in that thread.

The last vote in the #5 thread came in at 10:55 AM. I created the next thread at 12:06. An hour and 11 minutes without a single vote during the day.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275200&page=14

And no I don't decide who wins :facepalm Do I have 60 accounts or something? Get a grip.

[Dave3]

That's because votes wouldn't stop coming in that thread.

The last vote that came in was at 10:55 AM. I created the next thread at 12:06. An hour and 11 minutes without a single vote during the day.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275200&page=14

And no I don't decide who wins :facepalm Do I have 60 accounts or something? Get a grip.
Alright, now link me to the LeBron and Bird thread. I'm positive there was over an hour gap in there.

Edit: Just checked. There were multilple hour+ gaps in the LeBron/Bird thread without votes. They happened when LeBron was in the lead, but you refused to tally them up. Again, it's not like I'm the only one noticing this, everyone else noticed it too, so it's not like we're all just making things up.

[pauk]

@ pauk, Posters need to have 100 posts to vote, and 'big mo' is probably Moses Malone.

You are the boss.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Alright, now link me to the LeBron and Bird thread. I'm positive there was over an hour gap in there.
Yeah, and Bird had a 6 vote lead, so I moved on.

[Dave3]

Yeah, and Bird had a 6 vote lead, so I moved on.
Read the above. LeBron had multiple leads with hours in between of no voting (and he had more votes than a lot of the places between 1-8) but you wouldn't tally it up for some "mysterious" reason.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Read the above. LeBron had multiple leads with hours in between of no voting (and he had more votes than a lot of the places between 1-8) but you wouldn't tally it up for some "mysterious" reason.
Keep reaching :oldlol:

[KG215]

I'm not surprised LeBron is going to win, because I can live with that. I am surprised by how easily he is winning, to an extent. I'm guessing it has mostly to do with 99.9% of the posters on ISH, like myself, not being alive during the Russell/Wilt/West/Robertson/Baylor era; or even during Moses Malone's era for that matter. And I also think it has something to do with some posters being "prisoners of the moment."

This is what I did for my vote but, like I said, I can understand the argument for LeBron at #11 after his 2012 playoff run; but, fast forward 15 years to 2027. LeBron is out of the league, has 3-4 MVPs, 1 Championship, 1 Finals MVP, 5-7 more All-Star appearances, 5-6 more All-NBA selections, and 3-5 more All-Defensive Team selections. Is he still unquestionably the 11th best player all-time? To the same extents that he'd get more votes by ISH posters as Jerry West and Oscar Robertson combined?

Yes, right now with him at just 27 years old, we can sit here and say he'll win another championship or two or three, and he'll add another handful of All-NBA and All-Defense selections, but that's trying to predict the future; and I think for something like this, you have to go with what the players have done up to this point and not what you think they'll do down the line coupled with what they've already done.

Again, it's not that LeBron is winning, it's with the ease that he's winning. His resume is already top 12-15 all-time worthy. His peak has been arguably one of the 3-5 best in NBA history and he's got a dominant playoff run en-route to a championship and Finals MVP under his belt.

[Dave3]

Keep reaching :oldlol:
That would be a decent response If I was the only one who thought so. But when everyone who was reading the thread notices it too and calls you out for it, it's more than just me, and it's more than just reaching. If you're going to do something, at least have the balls to man up to what you do instead of avoiding it like a coward. People read threads, and people aren't stupid. People see what's going on and notice. When people see the closest vote had Wilt losing by 3 votes (and you're known to hate Wilt) then they see how long a different vote dragged on because LeBron was winning by 7 votes in a thread you claim "the votes wouldn't stop coming in" but they in fact did stop coming in, for twice the amount of time they stopped in the Wilt thread, and you saw the need to keep that one going but end the Wilt one.

Simple fact is, you can't explain that objectively to anyone with a brain, so be a man and admit it. Or you can continue to dance around the subject, use laughing smilies and empty phrases, and look like a fool to everyone reading. Your choice.

[sagr32]

Noof - West
Longhornfan1234 - Moses
arifgokcen - Lebron
coin24 - Moses
Quickening - Lebron
LosBulls - Lebron
DirtySanchez - Oscar
East_Stone_Ye - Isiah
TalvsCual - D.Robinson
alenleomessi - Lebron
RoundMound - Barkley
Harison - West
Lebron23 - Lebron
Horatio33 - West
KingJames99 - Lebron
SuckaFree - Lebron
Kobe143 - West
INDI - Oscar
G.O.A.T - Oscar
brownmamba00 - West
raiderfan19 - Lebron
Alan Ogg - Lebron
DaSeba5 - Lebron
iDunk - West
CarlosBoozer - Lebron
Dragonyeuw - Lebron
Dg#8 - Moses
raid09 - Lebron
raprap - Oscar
Lakers_Forever - Moses
WhiteMamba - Moses
RRR3 - Lebron
oolala - West
lilgodfather1 - Lebron
BruceLeeBowen - Lebron
Sarcastic - Oscar
scandisk - Oscar
Sakkreth - Lebron
franchiez - Oscar
Pauk - Lebron
Kingbeasley08 - Lebron
Duncan21mvp - Moses
Mr_Clutch_Melo - Lebron
Nash - Lebron
BoutPractice - Lebron
Riseagainst - Oscar
Heavincent - Moses
PyrrhusX - Oscar
po3try - Lebron
Pushxx - Oscar
Heilige - Lebron
DaHeezy - Oscar? (big mo, a typo maybe)
Mirko Cro Cop - Lebron
Lakersfan2046 - Oscar
SpecialQue - Moses
sagr32 - Lebron
StateOfMind12 - Lebron
KennethGriffin - Lebron
Freedom Kid7 - West
LongLiveTheKing - Lebron
KG215 - West
BigTicket - Lebron
AK47DR91 - Lebron
Colbertnation64 - West
Igotacoolstory - Isiah
Lorddragoonx1x - Lebron?
MrWarrior - West
Magnax1 - Moses
hanginintheair - Oscar
SillkkTheShocker - Lebron
KrazyMofo - West
fsvr54 - Moses
waseem780 - Lebron
Deuce Bigalow - Lebron
no pun intended - West
jalbert009 - Oscar
Punpun - Oscar
AlonzoGOAT - Lebron
BrickingStar - Lebron
1987 Lakers - West
Clifton - Lebron
lilblingy - West
L.Kizzle - Baylor
RoundMoundofReb - Lebron



LEBRON - 38 (39?)
OSCAR - 14 (15?)
WEST - 14
MOSES - 11
OSCAR -
ISIAH - 2
D.ROBINSON - 1
BARKLEY - 1


Just helping you out Deuce... :)


(AS OF POST #213)Not that it matters now since lebron seemingly has it locked up but I voted for oscar not Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7720685&postcount=98

[Deuce Bigalow]

That would be a decent response If I was the only one who thought so. But when everyone who was reading the thread notices it too and calls you out for it, it's more than just me, and it's more than just reaching. If you're going to do something, at least have the balls to man up to what you do instead of avoiding it like a coward. People read threads, and people aren't stupid. People see what's going on and notice. When people see the closest vote had Wilt losing by 3 votes (and you're known to hate Wilt) then they see how long a different vote dragged on because LeBron was winning by 7 votes in a thread you claim "the votes wouldn't stop coming in" but they in fact did stop coming in, for twice the amount of time they stopped in the Wilt thread, and you saw the need to keep that one going but end the Wilt one.

Simple fact is, you can't explain that objectively to anyone with a brain, so be a man and admit it. Or you can continue to dance around the subject, use laughing smilies and empty phrases, and look like a fool to everyone reading. Your choice.
You and RRR3 are the only people who thinks I'm "rigging" this shit. And you don't want to be mentioned with RRR3.

[chazzy]

That would be a decent response If I was the only one who thought so. But when everyone who was reading the thread notices it too and calls you out for it, it's more than just me, and it's more than just reaching. If you're going to do something, at least have the balls to man up to what you do instead of avoiding it like a coward. People read threads, and people aren't stupid. People see what's going on and notice. When people see the closest vote had Wilt losing by 3 votes (and you're known to hate Wilt) then they see how long a different vote dragged on because LeBron was winning by 7 votes in a thread you claim "the votes wouldn't stop coming in" but they in fact did stop coming in, for twice the amount of time they stopped in the Wilt thread, and you saw the need to keep that one going but end the Wilt one.

Simple fact is, you can't explain that objectively to anyone with a brain, so be a man and admit it. Or you can continue to dance around the subject, use laughing smilies and empty phrases, and look like a fool to everyone reading. Your choice.
Woah

[Dave3]

You and RRR3 are the only people who thinks I'm "rigging" this shit. And you don't want to be mentioned with RRR3.
You know this is false. In this thread alone another poster I don't know called you out for it as well. And in the Playoff runs thread many many more did as well, which is something you already know, so why make up that it's just me and one other poster? And those are just the ones that posted that at the time. There are probably a lot more that saw it and didn't bother posting about it. I noticed it at the time and said nothing because it was obvious. I only brought it up now because I saw it happening again and was using it for comparison. Again, people aren't blind. They see what's going on, and you're not fooling anyone with an IQ over 85.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You know this is false. In this thread alone another poster I don't know called you out for it as well. And in the Playoff runs thread many many more did as well, which is something you already know, so why make up that it's just me and one other poster? And those are just the ones that posted that at the time. There are probably a lot more that saw it and didn't bother posting about it. I noticed it at the time and said nothing because it was obvious. I only brought it up now because I saw it happening again and was using it for comparison. Again, people aren't blind. They see what's going on, and you're not fooling anyone with an IQ over 85.
I'm being honest here, I did not in any way try to rig the Bird vs Wilt thread.
I know you won't believe me anyways, but that's the truth.

[Dave3]

I'm being honest here, I did not in any way try to rig the Bird vs Wilt thread.
I know you won't believe me anyways, but that's the truth.
But you understand why I (or others) wouldn't believe you. It looks very much that you did, especially in addition to what happened in other threads and your perpetual bias/hate against Wilt.

[Deuce Bigalow]

But you understand why I (or others) wouldn't believe you. It looks very much that you did, especially in addition to what happened in other threads and your perpetual bias/hate against Wilt.
If you read through all the replies on the voting threads you would know that I asked if I was moving to fast from # to #. And a poster by the name of Horatio33 said that I was since he lives overseas obviously meaning there's a time difference so he would be sleeping while one of the threads is going on and finished. So since then I started giving threads more time for the posters outside the US, except #10 since it's wasn't even close. And btw I don't hate Wilt, I hate jlauber's biased posts on Wilt, if you argued something against Wilt you would know what I mean.

[pauk]

@BlackVVaves

Those "tactics" were just assumed by you and your henchmen of dazzling intellect who were "intellectual" enough to assume i was naive enough to use POTM/DPOY as my "tactics to catapult Lebron over others" (understandably so as i maybe shouldnt have pasted in the POTM thingy), properly corrected the confusion later by simply saying that was not my intention, that i just pasted in all the NBA awards and that you and me can all just forget about POTM/DPOY, get it? Forget about DPOY/POTM....

When you voted for Jerry West i only asked why, what is the criteria used for your decision? Thats all i asked for, I respect your opinion, have absolutely nothing against it, but i as a basketball fan only am/was interested to know why, hinting at an attempt of me and you sharing some basketball knowledge, thats all... Nothing wrong with that... or is it?

...and you still havent answered me on this subject and you dont have to...

As far as you derailing our main topic in question by constantly hailing me as a Lebron stan. Look, its no secret i like Lebron and that i like to talk about Lebron, if that is a reason enough for you to call me a Lebron stan that "shoves down his greatness upon your throats" then so be it, but remember i at least did that with authenticity, at the end of the day you most likely felt displeasure as what i presented to you thoroughly examinates your opposite opinion.

I dont mind you calling me a Lebron stan, but i mind when you question my credibility and factualness and i mind when you question my objective and intention and most importantly i mind when you compare me to a very annoying, obnoxious, degrading Lebron hating poster that probably thinks Kobe is the goat and that uses only delusional non factual opinions as his weapon and that ignores anything else.... which according to you were all features you questioned about me and all were actually erratic and somewhat comical...

Problem with posters like you is that you are either clandestinaly and intellectually hiding your awe for in this case Lebron or that your are viciously cemented with the past and therefore condemn anything that questions your decision, even if it is as factual and genuine as what i presented for you (i guess the latter).... this is a dilemma i myself suffered from aswell...

Complication with majority of other posters here is that they are young, which is not a crime and which i dont have anything against, but this most often means fractional basketball knowledge, one-sidedness in terms of basketball players and therefore treat another player as an object of extreme dislike and Lebron is the biggest such object in this forum...

If these "problems" didnt exist, then me being here oh so horribly dismaying you with what Lebron has done and desperately trying to reconstruct the flawed thoughts aimed upon any subject (including Lebron) with credible and factual hypothesis then me, you and everybody else would not be in this forum....

That is all....

[pauk]

Not that it matters now since lebron seemingly has it locked up but I voted for oscar not Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7720685&postcount=98

I apologise, dont worry Deuce has this covered more accurately.

[Sammyp]

LBJ

[ganja0710]

oscar robertson

[RRR3]

Eh at least Deuce didn't rig it in favor of LBJ this time. Still rigged it to prevent Wilt from winning tho:coleman:

[inclinerator]

moses

[kNicKz]

http://blog.loispaul.com/.a/6a00d83452b15969e2014e5f965528970c-800wi

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/EbInfinite/lebron-flop-2.gif

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/lebron-flop-pacers.gif

http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-flop-3.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1125565/flop.gif

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/HBKid/mj-laughing.gif

[riseagainst]

http://blog.loispaul.com/.a/6a00d83452b15969e2014e5f965528970c-800wi

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/EbInfinite/lebron-flop-2.gif

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/lebron-flop-pacers.gif

http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-flop-3.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1125565/flop.gif

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/HBKid/mj-laughing.gif

:roll:

[KG215]

pauk, you don't see how some of the stuff you said today can be misleading?


How was Moses Malone never the best player? Who was the best player in 83?


The triple double averaging Magic Johnson who just came of two championships and 2 FMVPs.... Then the 31-6-5 @ 56% FG Adrian Dantley made it tough to, Larry Bird, Kareem, George Gervin, Bernard King and so on..

Choosing the best player in that season was not as easy choosing the best player this season...

Moses (and the 76ers) owned the NBA that year going 65-17 and almost pulling off the "Fo, Fo, Fo" Malone predicted. Not only that, but the guy I think you're saying was the best player in the league that year (Magic) got swept by Malone's team in the Finals, and Malone was the better player between the two in the series. Sorry, but you're probably not finding many people in the summer of 1983 that would've told you someone other than Moses Malone was the best player in the NBA after they swept the Lakers in the Finals.

It'd kind of be like me (or anyone else) trying to say LeBron wasn't the best player in 2012 and, instead, saying Durant was. It's not anything big, and I know you're "not using that specific thing to catapult LeBron over anyone" but it still comes off as manipulative given your LeBron affinity.




......................Lebron............Oscar..... .........West..........
MVP...................3...................1....... .............0..............
FMVP..................1..................0........ ............1...............
CHAMP...............1(the man).....1(sidekick)......1(sidekick)..
ROTY................Yes................Yes........ .........No.............
DPOY..............RunnerUp.........No............. .....No.............
1st All-NBA.........6...................9................. ..10.............
1st All-Def..........4...................0................ ....4..............
All-Star MVP........2...................3.................. .1..............
All-Star..............8...................12.......... .......14..............
POTM................20..................0......... ..........0...............
Best Player?.......Yes..............Never.............N ever...........

So if you're going to count when Lebron was a runner up, don't you think you should count that for everybody else?

I do and they were not DPOY runner ups... :confusedshrug:


I mean you can't even see, just a tiny little bit, how manipulative this looks? You can say that wasn't your intention or what you were doing all you want but, after that exchange with TheMarkMadsen, it's almost impossible to think otherwise.

Again, this is something small but it's hard to see it as anything but you pushing a LeBron driven agenda. Given the large margin of victory it probably had almost zero influence on the vote for #11. I think there's enough LeBron fans and younger NBA fans on ISH, that the other players vying for this spot who played in the 60s didn't really stand much of a chance; and like I said, LeBron has a good case for #11 to begin with.

[chazzy]

@BlackVVaves

Those "tactics" were just assumed by you and your henchmen of dazzling intellect who were "intellectual" enough to assume i was naive enough to use POTM/DPOY as my "tactics to catapult Lebron over others" (understandably so as i maybe shouldnt have pasted in the POTM thingy), properly corrected the confusion later by simply saying that was not my intention, that i just pasted in all the NBA awards and that you and me can all just forget about POTM/DPOY, get it? Forget about DPOY/POTM....

When you voted for Jerry West i only asked why, what is the criteria used for your decision? Thats all i asked for, I respect your opinion, have absolutely nothing against it, but i as a basketball fan only am/was interested to know why, hinting at an attempt of me and you sharing some basketball knowledge, thats all... Nothing wrong with that... or is it?

...and you still havent answered me on this subject and you dont have to...

As far as you derailing our main topic in question by constantly hailing me as a Lebron stan. Look, its no secret i like Lebron and that i like to talk about Lebron, if that is a reason enough for you to call me a Lebron stan that "shoves down his greatness upon your throats" then so be it, but remember i at least did that with authenticity, at the end of the day you most likely felt displeasure as what i presented to you thoroughly examinates your opposite opinion.

I dont mind you calling me a Lebron stan, but i mind when you question my credibility and factualness and i mind when you question my objective and intention and most importantly i mind when you compare me to a very annoying, obnoxious, degrading Lebron hating poster that probably thinks Kobe is the goat and that uses only delusional non factual opinions as his weapon and that ignores anything else.... which according to you were all features you questioned about me and all were actually erratic and somewhat comical...

Problem with posters like you is that you are either clandestinaly and intellectually hiding your awe for in this case Lebron or that your are viciously cemented with the past and therefore condemn anything that questions your decision, even if it is as factual and genuine as what i presented for you (i guess the latter).... this is a dilemma i myself suffered from aswell...

Complication with majority of other posters here is that they are young, which is not a crime and which i dont have anything against, but this most often means fractional basketball knowledge, one-sidedness in terms of basketball players and therefore treat another player as an object of extreme dislike and Lebron is the biggest such object in this forum...

If these "problems" didnt exist, then me being here oh so horribly dismaying you with what Lebron has done and desperately trying to reconstruct the flawed thoughts aimed upon any subject (including Lebron) with credible and factual hypothesis then me, you and everybody else would not be in this forum....

That is all....
Someone is having way too much fun with a thesaurus :lol

[pauk]

pauk, you don't see how some of the stuff you said today can be misleading?



Moses (and the 76ers) owned the NBA that year going 65-17 and almost pulling off the "Fo, Fo, Fo" Malone predicted. Not only that, but the guy I think you're saying was the best player in the league that year (Magic) got swept by Malone's team in the Finals, and Malone was the better player between the two in the series. Sorry, but you're probably not finding many people in the summer of 1983 that would've told you someone other than Moses Malone was the best player in the NBA after they swept the Lakers in the Finals.

It'd kind of be like me (or anyone else) trying to say LeBron wasn't the best player in 2012 and, instead, saying Durant was. It's not anything big, and I know you're "not using that specific thing to catapult LeBron over anyone" but it still comes off as manipulative given your LeBron affinity.





I mean you can't even see, just a tiny little bit, how manipulative this looks? You can say that wasn't your intention or what you were doing all you want but, after that exchange with TheMarkMadsen, it's almost impossible to think otherwise.

Again, this is something small but it's hard to see it as anything but you pushing a LeBron driven agenda. Given the large margin of victory it probably had almost zero influence on the vote for #11. I think there's enough LeBron fans and younger NBA fans on ISH, that the other players vying for this spot who played in the 60s didn't really stand much of a chance; and like I said, LeBron has a good case for #11 to begin with.

I do see how it can be misleading, but manipulative? My intention with that post is to show you their accomplishments and if that manipulates you to do a more concrete decision, then great... thats my intention, to give you something to complete an accurate decision (if you are not to lazy you can find it yourself, google is your friend).. even tho i showed those accomplishments its not me who is manipulative in that case, but those accomplishments... dont hate me, hate the player that had the audacity to accomplish those feats or hate the website that posted them... :P

PS: Magic won 2 championships, 2 fmvps averaging triple double type of numbers (averaged 20-9-11 in those Finals) just before Moses won his... so no it wouldnt be like you saying Durant was better than Lebron in 2012 considering Durant didnt do anything the previous season or the season before that... But whatever, you could say Moses was best in 1983, thats your opinion...

[chazzy]

PS: Magic won 2 championships, 2 fmvps averaging triple double type of numbers (averaged 20-9-11 in those Finals) just before Moses won his... so no it wouldnt be like you saying Durant was better than Lebron in 2012 considering Durant didnt do anything the previous season or the season before that... But whatever, you could say Moses was best in 1983, thats your opinion...
It would be like saying Kobe was better than Dirk in 2011