If ewing had Kobe in his prime like shaq, do they rule the 90s instead of the bulls?

[Umad101]

Thoughts? How many rings do they get?

[HylianNightmare]

dont think they would rule, they might be able to win a couple but the bulls would still come out on top

[lakers_forever]

Thoughts? How many rings do they get?

It does not work like that. You can't just add Kobe to a stacked team like the Knicks. Their roster would have to be different. But if you just replaced Starks or Doc Rivers with prime Kobe:

Starks or Doc
Kobe
Mason
Oakley
Ewing

Yep. This team could beat the Bulls. ECF every year with most series against the Bulls going 7 games.

[Sarcastic]

Ewing would have some titles. Kind of sad that the best player they could ever get to play alongside him was a grocery store bag boy.

[Jacks3]

I think they could have easily won 4-5 chips. Kobe is a perfect fit for those team.

[9512]

Replacing Starks with Kobe is a huge upgrade. :cheers:

[Real Men Wear Green]

If T-Mac had Shaq in Orlando do they dominate the '00s?

[amfirst]

If T-Mac had Shaq in Orlando do they dominate the '00s?

who's T-Mac? :biggums:

[riseagainst]

definitely would've won in 1994. The others years there's a great chance they upset the Bulls.

[Rysio]

5-7 rings. kobe the goat.

[KOBE143]

Jordan would be ringless instead..

[97 bulls]

Perhaps 92 and 93. The Knicks barely beat the Bulls without Jordan in 94.

[Umad101]

I think they would definitely garentee a title 93,94,95

[kNicKz]

If only

[longtime lurker]

If T-Mac had Shaq in Orlando do they dominate the '00s?

I would not be surprised if this team never made it past the first round.

[RRR3]

Ewing would be Kobe's sidekick tho

[DaHeezy]

It does not work like that. You can't just add Kobe to a stacked team like the Knicks. Their roster would have to be different. But if you just replaced Starks or Doc Rivers with prime Kobe:

Starks or Doc
Kobe
Mason
Oakley
Ewing

Yep. This team could beat the Bulls. ECF every year with most series against the Bulls going 7 games.

I agree. The only thing the Knicks lacked was a closer. Harper @ PG and you have a scary defensive team

[Teanett]

no. ewing had starks.
starks>kobe

[DuMa]

Kobe & handchecking rules. :oldlol:

[WeGetRing2012]

Prime Kobe? You mean Kobe from 2006-2009? Uh yeah they win some titles...

[kennethgriffin]

these threads are meaningless

might aswell change the title to

"who do you like more... kobe or jordan"

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe & handchecking rules. :oldlol:


you do realise kobe had dominant seasons with handchecking aswell?

he put up 29/6/5 , 25/5/5, and 30/7/6 before handchecking was taken out of the game


he also won 3 titles with handchecking



( are people really this young here? )

[RRR3]

no. ewing had starks.
starks>kobe
At what, going 1-17 in big games?

[DaHeezy]

these threads are meaningless

might aswell change the title to

"who do you like more... kobe or jordan"

Why would suggest that?
All the OP is saying is that Kobe may have gotten the Knicks over a plateau.
You're reaching for an argument

[TheMan]

It does not work like that. You can't just add Kobe to a stacked team like the Knicks. Their roster would have to be different. But if you just replaced Starks or Doc Rivers with prime Kobe:

Starks or Doc
Kobe
Mason
Oakley
Ewing

Yep. This team could beat the Bulls. ECF every year with most series against the Bulls going 7 games.
Starks or Doc=Paxson or BJ
Kobe<Jordan
Mason<Pippen
Oakley<Grant
Ewing>Cartwright

The Bulls still have the best player, the series would be tougher but the Bulls still come out on top.

Deal with it

[riseagainst]

as far as the Bulls vs Knicks go. It's really a question of MJ vs Kobe.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Tmac
Hill
Weber
Shaq

All in Prime

Greatest team in History?

[TheMan]

as far as the Bulls vs Knicks go. It's really a question of MJ vs Kobe.
In other words, Bulls still would own:oldlol:

[riseagainst]

In other words, Bulls still would own:oldlol:

this is what really separates stans from fans. Because MJ is a more efficient scorer than Kobe people automatically assume he would complete sh*t on Kobe in there matchups (prime vs prime of course). They don't even leave a little room for discussion about maybe Kobe would actually put up a good fight, where they would matchup pretty well. There's no way to actually know, obviously, since their primes didn't overlap. But could you at least judge a little more fairly? we all know Mj was no joke, but kobe in his prime was no joke either.

but in regards to the bolded. I know winning in 4 or 5 = own. I didn't 6 or 7 games = own as well.

[DKLaker]

I think they could have easily won 4-5 chips. Kobe is a perfect fit for those team.

This!!!!!

MJ had it easy, right place, right time.

[TheMan]

this is what really separates stans from fans. Because MJ is a more efficient scorer than Kobe people automatically assume he would complete sh*t on Kobe in there matchups (prime vs prime of course). They don't even leave a little room for discussion about maybe Kobe would actually put up a good fight, where they would matchup pretty well. There's no way to actually know, obviously, since their primes didn't overlap. But could you at least judge a little more fairly? we all know Mj was no joke, but kobe in his prime was no joke either.

but in regards to the bolded. I know winning in 4 or 5 = own. I didn't 6 or 7 games = own as well.
Compare position by position, the Bulls still win those match ups, Kobe can put up a fight but the Bulls still have the best player.

I know these threads are impossible to prove because time machines don't exsist but keep in mind that Kobe modeled his game after MJ's. His game would probably be different if he grew up at the same time Jordan did, not after...

[scm5]

Kobe would have more talent around him than MJ if this were to happen. It wouldn't say that Kobe is better, just that he's more likely to win more rings because he has a better team around him.

Don't be so insecure.

[TheMan]

This!!!!!

MJ had it easy, right place, right time.
So did Kobe, rode one of the most dominating forces to play basketball to 3 chips, change Pierce with Kobe and the Lakers still win...

[TheMan]

Kobe would have more talent around him than MJ if this were to happen. It wouldn't say that Kobe is better, just that he's more likely to win more rings because he has a better team around him.

Don't be so insecure.
I doubt you saw those games, the Bulls were more talented than the Knicks, they often went through scoring droughts, they were a tough defensive team but so were the Bulls, they just did it with quickness and athleticism while the Knicks were physical.

BJ/Pax=Doc/Harper/Anthony
MJ>Starks/Blackmon
Pippen>X/Mason
Grant/SWilliams>Oakley/CSmith
Cartwright<Ewing

Cartwright always gave Ewing fits. Bulls still win with a prime Kobe IMO.

[Ne 1]

Kobe & handchecking rules. :oldlol:

Kobe would do better under old rules:

- be able to use screens better to create open shots
- move better off the ball (read the restrictions placed on the defender who was covering a player off the ball)
- be able to isolate much easier in the post and as a result use that aspect of his game more often
- couple more little things but these are some of the ones that come to mind off the top of my head

:oldlol: @ people acting like Kobe didn't put 30/7/6 in the greatest defensive era in league history (2001-2005...lowest scoring games ever, games came to a grind that they had to do something to make it a bit easier). Gotta love how people act like good players stopped playing right after 1998.

btw Kobe played under handchecking AND the zone rules back when he wasn't even in his prime and put up 30/7/6...but go back to '98? He's toast. Hell one of Kobe's highest per minute FTA seasons was in '97/'98 despite him clearly not being in his athletic or skilled prime back then as a 19 year old.

[game3524]

I think the Knicks would have won 2-3 titles with peak Kobe(2006-2008) and Ewing.

[Sakkreth]

Probably one in 94.

[AlphaWolf24]

So did Kobe, rode one of the most dominating forces to play basketball to 3 chips, change Pierce with Kobe and the Lakers still win...


29PPG 6reb and 7ast is riding?...Kobe had better playoff runs during the first 3 peat then Wade did in 2006!

replaced Shaq with gasol and still nearly 3 peated....

- Kobe merked MJ in thier head 2 head meetings..

- Kobe and Ewing in the 90's = 7 Rings....MJ would be just a baldheaded Dominique Wilkins.

[greymatter]

Their best chances would be in 93 and 94 (assuming Jordan still retired). Knicks played slow, physical, grinding basketball which would have been an ill-suited system for Kobe. They were easily one of the most boring teams to watch. Ewing was known as a black hole who fell in love with his jumpshot and wasn't very good at passing out of double teams.

No more than 2 titles tops. Bulls still clearly better.

[DKLaker]

So did Kobe, rode one of the most dominating forces to play basketball to 3 chips, change Pierce with Kobe and the Lakers still win...


WRONG!!!.......and Shaq needed Kobe as much as Kobe needed Shaq.......unless you think Shaq is clutch at the free throw line or could hit 3's :oldlol:

[Nero Tulip]

Kobe isn't nearly as good as you think. 0 titles.

[lakers_forever]

Starks or Doc=Paxson or BJ
Kobe<Jordan
Mason<Pippen
Oakley<Grant
Ewing>Cartwright

The Bulls still have the best player, the series would be tougher but the Bulls still come out on top.

Deal with it

Do you undestand the world "could"? It would be a hard fought series (it was even without Kobe on the Knicks). Bulls might had won more titles that the Kobe-Ewing Knicks (MJ is the G.O.A.T afterall), but only a blind fan would think the Knicks would have no chance of winning a couple of titles.

And team comparison does not work like that at all. The difference between Ewing and Cartwright is huge. Kobe is much closer to MJ, actually the closest thing to MJ. Basically you are taking a bad ass team and adding the second best SG ever.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It does not work like that. You can't just add Kobe to a stacked team like the Knicks. Their roster would have to be different. But if you just replaced Starks or Doc Rivers with prime Kobe

Thank you, I was going to point out that you have to mention who they're surrounded by.

Some act like the top 2 players are the only things that matter. If the OP is trying to make a comparison between Shaq and Ewing, he has to give Patrick similar supporting players to what Shaq had beyond Kobe.

The Lakers had the great duo, but they weren't a stacked team. The 3peat teams never had a 3rd player who was close to all-star caliber. And the only time he had 3rd scorer was a past his prime Glen Rice in 2000, and he wasn't necessarily more effective than other Laker 3rd best players in '01 and '02, plus that was before Kobe was a top 5 player.

Just adding Kobe to those Knick teams is not a fair comparison.

I'm a huge Ewing fan, I've lived in NY all my life and got into the NBA when the Knicks were contending for titles and led by Ewing, but if the point of this thread is to try to make Ewing seem closer to either Shaq or Jordan than he really was, it's pointless. I'm as big of a Ewing fan as there is here, and he was clearly not as good as either.

What years in Kobe's career would he be on the Knicks? Who would the supporting cast around them be? What Knick teams would Kobe be on? Examples being '92, '93, '94 ect.?

I need more details.

I'll look at the '92-'94 Knick rosters, the height of the Knicks/Bulls rivalry.

In '92, they didn't have a player of even 2000 Kobe's caliber around Ewing, but they did have Xavier McDaniel, a good player at both ends who had established himself as 20 ppg scorer before coming to NY and whose all-star caliber play in the playoffs was a key to the Knicks beating Detroit and taking the Bulls to 7. People forget about what a key McDaniel's success vs Pippen in the series, so you can't just say they almost beat Chicago without Kobe so they probably do with him.

Then they had Starks who was known for his defense, but also established himself as a legit scorer and 3 point shooter who averaged 14 ppg in just 26 mpg, and a capable ball handler and passer.

As well as a swingman like Gerald Wilkins who did everything pretty well, Mark Jackson who had a comeback year and was a very good passing PG who could also post up and score a bit with his tear drop as well as physical players like Oakley and Mason.

And the Knicks got better in '93 and '94 so now you see why you can't just add Kobe to those teams and expect a fair comparison.

Also, for those assuming there wouldn't be the potential for the problems Shaq and Kobe had, well you didn't follow the 90's Knicks because I don't see Ewing or Kobe being thrilled with being a 2nd option. Remember when Ewing was getting older in '96 and Don Nelson wanted the team to rely on him less? That was a disaster.

Ewing and Kobe are a very promising duo to build around, but without knowing more such as how old they'd be, what Knick team we'd start with and what the rest of the roster would look like.

[DaHeezy]

Compare position by position, the Bulls still win those match ups, Kobe can put up a fight but the Bulls still have the best player.

I know these threads are impossible to prove because time machines don't exsist but keep in mind that Kobe modeled his game after MJ's. His game would probably be different if he grew up at the same time Jordan did, not after...

That's a pretty dumb assesment. You're saying Kobe wouldn't be good had Jordan not existed? Kobe is good because of natural talent and his pedigree, not because he emulated Jordan's game.

For the record Kobe's game is nowhere similar to Jordan's. Because you idolize someone does not mean the game is exactly patterened after.

[SilkkTheShocker]

They win in 93, 94, and 98 IMO.

[DaHeezy]

Do you undestand the world "could"? It would be a hard fought series (it was even without Kobe on the Knicks). Bulls might had won more titles that the Kobe-Ewing Knicks (MJ is the G.O.A.T afterall), but only a blind fan would think the Knicks would have no chance of winning a couple of titles.

And team comparison does not work like that at all. The difference between Ewing and Cartwright is huge. Kobe is much closer to MJ, actually the closest thing to MJ. Basically you are taking a bad ass team and adding the second best SG ever.

Not to mention that The Knicks played very close series with the Bulls as it was. An upgrade from Wilkins to Bryant is a HUGE upgrade and fills a need that the Knicks really never had, a solid closer.

[Umad101]

I'm think a 2000-present Kobe on the knick starting from 1990 and on

[DatAsh]

That's a pretty dumb assesment. You're saying Kobe wouldn't be good had Jordan not existed? Kobe is good because of natural talent and his pedigree, not because he emulated Jordan's game.

For the record Kobe's game is nowhere similar to Jordan's. Because you idolize someone does not mean the game is exactly patterened after.

As far as comparing two different players, Jordan and Kobe are very similar, particularly their post game, footwork, jumpshot, and finishing moves.

Kobe modeled a lot of his game off of Jordan's, which seemingly worked out pretty well. It's not a knock on Kobe to say that Kobe wouldn't be the player he is today had Jordan not existed, it's just reality. Jordan wouldn't have been the player he was had Dr J, Baylor, West, Robertson never existed.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'm think a 2000-present Kobe on the knick starting from 1990 and on

Ok, and what's the supporting cast? You mean replacing the starting SG that the Knicks had? If so, that's much more help than what Shaq had and more than what Jordan had because aside from the duo, the Knicks would also have a stacked team.

[Quizno]

LMAO DuMa feels so stupid for his handchecking comment :oldlol: :oldlol:

[longtime lurker]

2 or 3 or 0 rings who knows. But I do know replacing Starks with Kobe would make the Knicks a hell of a lot better.

[The Choken One]

I'd predict the Knicks would win about 4 titles, and the Bulls would also win 4 titles. It could go 5-3 in either team's direction, too.

[Overdrive]

I think he would only marginally make them better. Kobe is way better than any wing those Knicks teams had, but he wouldn't have the same freedom he had on the Lakers.

He wouldn't be able to take that many shots.
Maybe they'd win more or just one once atleast, but Kobe's career would have turned out way differently.

[AlphaWolf24]

I think he would only marginally make them better. Kobe is way better than any wing those Knicks teams had, but he wouldn't have the same freedom he had on the Lakers.

He wouldn't be able to take that many shots.
Maybe they'd win more or just one once atleast, but Kobe's career would have turned out way differently.


actually...Kobe would make them a dynasty..

an elite Scorer with a great defensive mentality/suffoccating eprimeter Defense.....to join Ewing / great interior shot blocker/rebounder who could score in many more ways then Shaq ...Oakley and Mason 2 great defenders with top shelf rebounding...who was at the PG?..Derek Harper a good shooter....with ward at the back up...

Kobe would fit perfect and Dominate...

[kumquat]

Ewing is so overrated it's not funny. I'm glad he didn't win a title, what he did in his career in terms of accolades reflected his true worth.

[10x91= 5 Rings]

nope. mj and the dream wouldn`t let them.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Well assuming Kobe just replaces their orginal starting SG Wilkins, and nothing else is changed, that gives the team a significant upgrade. Not going to rule the 90s, but will most likely not be ringless.

[ralph_i_el]

trick question kobe wouldn't be as good if he had to play at the same time as jordan. How would he copy jordan if they were contemporaries?

they see me trollin

[Overdrive]

actually...Kobe would make them a dynasty..


No, because you, me and anybody here takes Kobe's body of work as proof. The problem about that is that Kobe's body of work would dramatically change if put on the 90s Knicks. They've been a defensive oriented squad. Yes, they took more shots than the early '00s Lakers, but their perimeter players were leading a balanced attack most of the time. It was like the late '00 Magic, but with defense outside of their center.

Now you put in Kobe on that squad, he wouldn't be a starter in his rookie season. 2000 onwards Kobe shouldn't be the starting point, because Kobe evolved alot from his rookie season to 2000.

So either Kobe would be a late 80s rookie and 1990 = 2000 or he would be traded there, taking away alot of players the Knicks had.

I'd rather go for the 1st option then:

Kobe would be molded into a total different player. Based on his talent he might still take the 6th man option early in his career, but instead of coming off the bench behind the a bit more experienced Jones, he'd be coming off the bench behind several other players in his first few seasons.

His mentality wouldn't subordinate to the teamdefense > offense style the Knicks employed.
And if it would he wouldn't became the Kobe we know as prime Kobe.

His talent would help them nonetheless.



an elite Scorer with a great defensive mentality/suffoccating eprimeter Defense.....to join Ewing / great interior shot blocker/rebounder who could score in many more ways then Shaq ...Oakley and Mason 2 great defenders with top shelf rebounding...who was at the PG?..Derek Harper a good shooter....with ward at the back up...


Ewing could score in more ways, but he didn't score more, so his ways were dead ends.



Kobe would fit perfect and Dominate...

Kobe would fit perfect, but I don't think he'd dominate, though.

[imdaman99]

Starks or Doc=Paxson or BJ
Kobe<Jordan
Mason<Pippen
Oakley<Grant
Ewing>Cartwright

The Bulls still have the best player, the series would be tougher but the Bulls still come out on top.

Deal with it
pippen was def better than mason, but he never did shit against mason. mason would lock his ass up and post and toast the hell outa him. he was too big for scottie. when LJ came, thats when pippen started dominating the knicks. but against mason? NO CHANCE.

knicks with kobe at the 2, with starks coming off the bench is a lock for 2-3 titles.

[General]

Jordan would go ringless, GAWDbe 8 rings, GOAT:bowdown:

JK I just don't know.

[Snoop_Cat]

That's one over the top hypocritical. I think they could've won a few off MJ's Bulls assuming Kobe is a direct replacement of Starks.

I think they would've beaten the Rockets for sure so Hakeem's legacy would be greatly impacted as well.

[GreatGreg]

- Kobe merked MJ in thier head 2 head meetings..

How impressive, a young Kobe "merked" a 40 year old Jordan. STFU, Retard.

[scandisk_]

1-2 titles :pimp: