If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

[IamRAMBO24]

Kobe stans can no longer hate on the Lebron parade for him being on a stacked team. The Lakers are easily the most stacked team in recent memory. In comparison, if this was the late 90s, they would have the best SG (Jordan), the best center (The Dream), and 2nd best PG (Stockton) on their team.

If Kobe can't win it all this year, I don't see how he can even be in the top 10. I know the argument will be "Oh he's got 5 rings." That is just a generic argument. Robert Horry has 8 rings and that does not reflect the SUBSTANCE of his real contributions on the court. Karl Malone is one of the greatest players I have ever seen but he has absolutely no rings.

Just real talk.

Kobe just aint got it if he can't pull this one off.

[kennethgriffin]

lol wtf...


when was the last time a guy in his 17th season won finals mvp

its never happend

kobe will be the first. so if he doesnt do it... its not like its a huge failure


lebron lost with 2 other hall of famers in their prime ( and himself in his prime ) to dallas with just basically dirk playing anywhere near his prime. and the only other HOF'r ( kidd ) not near an allstar level


plus... the heat are almost just as stacked as LA.

so itel be kobe/nash/howard/artest/jamison vs lebron/wade/bosh/lewis/allen

i say the lakers are better. but its not like the lakers have as big an advantage as the heat had over dallas in 2011 AND STILL LOST


so by the OP's logit. theres no way lebron should ever be top 10

:lol

[Ne 1]

Kobe's already a top 10 player of all-time and he's already proven that he doesn't need this stacked of a team to win.

The only one who's legacy can really be hurt by this scenario is Dwight. For Kobe, it's just icing on an already great cake.

[pegasus]

They have a very good team, but let's not act like Kobe, Nash, Gasol, and Artest are all in their primes. If they were, you would have jumped off the Heat bandwagon and hopped on the LA's.:lol There's your tell-tale sign that they are not the heavy favorites to win it all.

[game3524]

Kobe's legacy is set already as a top 7-10 player of all-time.

Anything he does now is just gravy to his resume.

[swag2011]

Why does it matter? Even if he does win, none of the haters (including you OP) will give him any credit anyway. He's top 10 already and will be regardless.

[riseagainst]

Kobe stans can no longer hate on the Lebron parade for him being on a stacked team. The Lakers are easily the most stacked team in recent memory. In comparison, if this was the late 90s, they would have the best SG (Jordan), the best center (The Dream), and 2nd best PG (Stockton) on their team.

If Kobe can't win it all this year, I don't see how he can even be in the top 10. I know the argument will be "Oh he's got 5 rings." That is just a generic argument. Robert Horry has 8 rings and that does not reflect the SUBSTANCE of his real contributions on the court. Karl Malone is one of the greatest players I have ever seen but he has absolutely no rings.

Just real talk.

Kobe just aint got it if he can't pull this one off.

:facepalm

[IamRAMBO24]

Kobe's already a top 10 player of all-time and he's already proven that he doesn't need this stacked of a team to win.

The only one who's legacy can really be hurt by this scenario is Dwight. For Kobe, it's just icing on an already great cake.

I disagree. This is Kobe's team. He has made that clear.

Let's get away from all the rubbish talk with materialistic accolades like rings and stats.

Real talk.

Kobe just aint that great if he can't take this team to the championship. Period. He is not playing injured; he is still in his older prime; he's got them legs.

The big cloud on Kobe's head is whether or not he is a true leader. Remember more than half of those rings belong to Shaq.

[IamRAMBO24]

lol wtf...


when was the last time a guy in his 17th season won finals mvp

its never happend

kobe will be the first. so if he doesnt do it... its not like its a huge failure


lebron lost with 2 other hall of famers in their prime ( and himself in his prime ) to dallas with just basically dirk playing anywhere near his prime. and the only other HOF'r ( kidd ) not near an allstar level


plus... the heat are almost just as stacked as LA.

so itel be kobe/nash/howard/artest/jamison vs lebron/wade/bosh/lewis/allen

i say the lakers are better. but its not like the lakers have as big an advantage as the heat had over dallas in 2011 AND STILL LOST


so by the OP's logit. theres no way lebron should ever be top 10

:lol

No dumbsh*t.

Lebron has a ring. The question is will Kobe get one with this stacked of a team.

Dude it's just sad if he doesn't get one. You can take Iverson out of retirement and have him chuck up balls in the corner and still win a ring with this team.

[kennethgriffin]

No dumbsh*t.

Lebron has a ring. The question is will Kobe get one with this stacked of a team.

Dude it's just sad if he doesn't get one. You can take Iverson out of retirement and have him chuck up balls in the corner and still win a ring with this team.

kobe has rings too... with allot less help

lol

you're quote was "if you lose"


lebron lost with even more of an advantage in 2011


you lose

:lol

[KOBE143]

If Kobe Win It All in 2013 Then He Should Be The GOAT..

[Rubio2Gasol]

Something is seriously wrong on this site.

The Lakers aren't even the most talented team in the league lol.

[BlueandGold]

They have a very good team, but let's not act like Kobe, Nash, Gasol, and Artest are all in their primes. If they were, you would have jumped off the Heat bandwagon and hopped on the LA's.:lol There's your tell-tale sign that they are not the heavy favorites to win it all.

A point that doesn't get brought much at all, how can u take someone seriously as a heat "fan" when most heat "fans" join dates are suspiciously the same month and year as the decision. I remember some poster telling some elaborate story where he just so happened to join on Jul 2010 because of NBA live or something, :facepalm

[LakersReign]

I disagree. This is Kobe's team. He has made that clear.

Let's get away from all the rubbish talk with materialistic accolades like rings and stats.

Real talk.

Kobe just aint that great if he can't take this team to the championship. Period. He is not playing injured; he is still in his older prime; he's got them legs.

The big cloud on Kobe's head is whether or not he is a true leader. Remember more than half of those rings belong to Shaq.

AND......real talk......."true leader" or not, remember more than half of Lebron's ring belongs to BOTH Wade/Bosh:lol

[Coffee Black]

Come on dude. Legacy is built on what has been achieved, not what has not been achieved.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I disagree. This is Kobe's team. He has made that clear.

Let's get away from all the rubbish talk with materialistic accolades like rings and stats.

Real talk.

Kobe just aint that great if he can't take this team to the championship. Period. He is not playing injured; he is still in his older prime; he's got them legs.

The big cloud on Kobe's head is whether or not he is a true leader. Remember more than half of those rings belong to Shaq.

and if the Lakers do win the championship let me guess that ring would belong to Dwight.

:roll:

[jstern]

Like somebody else said, someone that shoots 6-24 in a game 7 NBA finals shouldn't be top ten. For the last two years the Kobe stans have slowly put Kobe in the top ten, with constantly referring him as a top ten every where they could. It's very effective. Two years ago Kobe was referred to as a top 15 to 20 players by many unbiased fans who now say he's top ten, mean while during that time he has been sweaped by Dallas, and had those choke jobs in Dallas. He's a 41% career finals shooter, who unlike every other top 10 player doesn't have defining moments where he just stepped it up and put the team un his back. The only Lakers who has done that during Kobe's time is Fisher, hitting clutch shots and Shaq completely stepping it up during the Finals.

[chazzy]

Two years ago Kobe was referred to as a top 15 to 20 players by many unbiased fans who now say he's top ten
Simply not true. A lot of people were putting him in the top 10 after '09, and it was basically unanimous after 2010

[Levity]

OP is very narrow minded.

:facepalm

[alleykat]

top 10 is subjective.....

he can still be top 10 and it would be easy to see why....

[game3524]

Like somebody else said, someone that shoots 6-24 in a game 7 NBA finals shouldn't be top ten. For the last two years the Kobe stans have slowly put Kobe in the top ten, with constantly referring him as a top ten every where they could. It's very effective. Two years ago Kobe was referred to as a top 15 to 20 players by many unbiased fans who now say he's top ten, mean while during that time he has been sweaped by Dallas, and had those choke jobs in Dallas. He's a 41% career finals shooter, who unlike every other top 10 player doesn't have defining moments where he just stepped it up and put the team un his back. The only Lakers who has done that during Kobe's time is Fisher, hitting clutch shots and Shaq completely stepping it up during the Finals.

I guess Jordan shouldn't be top ten since he shot 6-19 in a close out NBA Finals.:rolleyes:

Players should be judge by their body of work. Kobe's resume is easily among the ten best in NBA history.

[jstern]

I guess Jordan shouldn't be top ten since he shot 6-19 in a close out NBA Finals.:rolleyes:

Players should be judge by their body of work. Kobe's resume is easily among the ten best in NBA history.

Wow, Jordan would have to brick 5 shots in a row just to match Kobe's.

Somebody else said that about Kobe, my reason and point is that Kobe has no defining movements like the typical top 10 players. Like the Olajuwon's, Bird's, and Jordan's. In fact he has a lot of moments of others in his team stepping it up and bailing him out.

[guy]

lol wtf...


when was the last time a guy in his 17th season won finals mvp

its never happend

kobe will be the first. so if he doesnt do it... its not like its a huge failure


lebron lost with 2 other hall of famers in their prime ( and himself in his prime ) to dallas with just basically dirk playing anywhere near his prime. and the only other HOF'r ( kidd ) not near an allstar level


plus... the heat are almost just as stacked as LA.

so itel be kobe/nash/howard/artest/jamison vs lebron/wade/bosh/lewis/allen

i say the lakers are better. but its not like the lakers have as big an advantage as the heat had over dallas in 2011 AND STILL LOST


so by the OP's logit. theres no way lebron should ever be top 10

:lol

Umm why did you not include Gasol?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Wow, Jordan would have to brick 5 shots in a row just to match Kobe's.

Somebody else said that about Kobe, my reason and point is that Kobe has no defining movements like the typical top 10 players. Like the Olajuwon's, Bird's, and Jordan's. In fact he has a lot of moments of others in his team stepping it up and bailing him out.

What are Kareem's finals moments?

What are Bill Russell's finals moments?

What the hell is a Finals moment? :roll:

[AK47DR91]

Wow, Jordan would have to brick 5 shots in a row just to match Kobe's.

Somebody else said that about Kobe, my reason and point is that Kobe has no defining movements like the typical top 10 players. Like the Olajuwon's, Bird's, and Jordan's. In fact he has a lot of moments of others in his team stepping it up and bailing him out.
81 points against a Canadian team.

Kobe = #1 Laker and Greatest Player of All-Time.

[game3524]

Wow, Jordan would have to brick 5 shots in a row just to match Kobe's.

Somebody else said that about Kobe, my reason and point is that Kobe has no defining movements like the typical top 10 players. Like the Olajuwon's, Bird's, and Jordan's. In fact he has a lot of moments of others in his team stepping it up and bailing him out.

6-19 is still terrible anyway you try to spin it.

Kobe shot poorly in game 7 of that series, but he contributed in other areas of the game(rebounding and defense).

and lmao at saying Kobe has no defining moments.

The man scored 81 points!

20 years from now, people are still going to remember that over anything Hakeem and maybe even Bird did.

[tmacattack33]

Your "legacy" can't go backwards on anyone's list based on what happens in the future just for the sake of those happenings themselves.

Now what CAN be logical is if something that happens in the future that makes you realize that you were overrating (or underrating) the player in the past.

Like, if for instance, Westbrook (just a random player i thought of) gets hurt next year and OKC still makes the WCF. Some people may then come to the conclusion that they over valued Westbrook and that he is not as good as they once thought, and I would not blame them.

[funnystuff]

kobe has rings too... with allot less help

lol

you're quote was "if you lose"


lebron lost with even more of an advantage in 2011


you lose

:lol
i LOL'd

[chazzy]

Wow, Jordan would have to brick 5 shots in a row just to match Kobe's.

Somebody else said that about Kobe, my reason and point is that Kobe has no defining movements like the typical top 10 players. Like the Olajuwon's, Bird's, and Jordan's. In fact he has a lot of moments of others in his team stepping it up and bailing him out.
And you can rank those players above Kobe and he would still be top 10.

[jstern]

6-19 is still terrible anyway you try to spin it.

Kobe shot poorly in game 7 of that series, but he contributed in other areas of the game(rebounding and defense).

and lmao at saying Kobe has no defining moments.

The man scored 81 points!

20 years from now, people are still going to remember that over anything Hakeem and maybe even Bird did.

When people talk about defying moments where the player got in the zone and took over to beat a team in a series when everything looked doubtful, hitting clutch shots after clutch shots in those situations. They're always talking about the playoff, not some meaningless game against the worst team in the league. The regular season was the furthest thing from my mind.

Nobody talks about Jordan's 69 points as one of those moments, and other such regular season games, it's in the playoffs. That clutch steal by bird to beat the Pistons. The Flu game, Jordan's last shot. Those kinds of moments, on a big stage. Not against the Raptors who cared so little about that regular season game that they were barely lifting their hand up whenever Kobe shot.

Even Lebron has bigger moments. Kobe has had the opposite, like those 4 air balls against Utahs. It's the opposite of those moments that I'm talking about.

[chazzy]

When people talk about defying moments where the player got in the zone and took over to beat a team in a series when everything looked doubtful, hitting clutch shots after clutch shots in those situations. They're always talking about the playoff, not some meaningless game against the worst team in the league. The regular season was the furthest thing from my mind.

Nobody talks about Jordan's 69 points as one of those moments, and other such regular season games, it's in the playoffs. That clutch steal by bird to beat the Pistons. The Flu game, Jordan's last shot. Those kinds of moments, on a big stage. Not against the Raptors who cared so little about that regular season game that they were barely lifting their hand up whenever Kobe shot.

Even Lebron has bigger moments. Kobe has had the opposite, like those 4 air balls against Utahs. It's the opposite of those moments that I'm talking about.
You're dumber than I thought if you don't think Kobe has had memorable PLAYOFF games/moments. Wow

[LakersReign]

When people talk about defying moments where the player got in the zone and took over to beat a team in a series when everything looked doubtful, hitting clutch shots after clutch shots in those situations. They're always talking about the playoff, not some meaningless game against the worst team in the league. The regular season was the furthest thing from my mind.

Nobody talks about Jordan's 69 points as one of those moments, and other such regular season games, it's in the playoffs. That clutch steal by bird to beat the Pistons. The Flu game, Jordan's last shot. Those kinds of moments, on a big stage. Not against the Raptors who cared so little about that regular season game that they were barely lifting their hand up whenever Kobe shot.

Even Lebron has bigger moments. Kobe has had the opposite, like those 4 air balls against Utahs. It's the opposite of those moments that I'm talking about.

That's your whole point right there in that one sentence. Yeah...so we all should be enamored with Lebron, beasting out 45 points....IN A GAME 6.....to beat a Boston team, many had them already sweeping? "But no....no....no....no....no....Kobe has no defining moments." GTFOH:roll:

[RRR3]

That's your whole point right there in that one sentence. Yeah...so we all should be enamored with Lebron, beasting out 45 points....IN A GAME 6.....to beat a Boston team, many had them already sweeping? "But no....no....no....no....no....Kobe has no defining moments." GTFOH:roll:
http://i.minus.com/iM0ZAx7ZydNC3.gif

[game3524]

You're dumber than I thought if you don't think Kobe has had memorable PLAYOFF games/moments. Wow

Yeah, that is flat-out nonsense.

Against the Spurs in 2001 and 2002, his playoff runs in 2008, 2009, and 2010 etc.

Kobe has had some memorable moments in the playoffs.

[G-Funk]

His legacy has already been set in stone, he can only add to his resume at this point. NEXT

[clayton]

This is Dwight's team.

[RRR3]

http://i48.tinypic.com/29fy1p0.gif
http://i.imgur.com/EX98o.gif

[RRR3]

CAN'T explain why you're(rrr3) so butthurt over my posts that you LIE and say are so supposedly unintentionally funny huh? Big surprise:hammerhead:
LOL this foo' has negative reputation, so much for "reasonable people" taking you seriously :lol

[LakersReign]

But...why you(rrr3) so mad(since December 2011), over my posts that you...yourself(rrr3) CLAIM(lie) are so supposedly unintentionally funny?:lol

[tmacattack33]

That's your whole point right there in that one sentence. Yeah...so we all should be enamored with Lebron, beasting out 45 points....IN A GAME 6.....to beat a Boston team, many had them already sweeping? "But no....no....no....no....no....Kobe has no defining moments." GTFOH:roll:

:biggums:

Wow, you say IN A GAME 6, like you are trying to say it is meaningless, lol.

...A win or go home Game 6 is the second most important game possible, behind a game 7.


Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

[swi7ch]

What if LBJ wins it all again?

[LakersReign]

:biggums:

Wow, you say IN A GAME 6, like you are trying to say it is meaningless, lol.

...A win or go home Game 6 is the second most important game possible, behind a game 7.


Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

So....according to you(tmacattack33), 45 point performance in a Game 6 they shouldn't have been playing vs a team they were suppose to sweep, is the most epic thing in NBA history?:wtf:

Yeah....cocaine really is a hell of a drug. And saying crap like that proves exactly why you(tmacattack33) seriously need to get off of it and going into rehab:facepalm

[jstern]

That's your whole point right there in that one sentence. Yeah...so we all should be enamored with Lebron, beasting out 45 points....IN A GAME 6.....to beat a Boston team, many had them already sweeping? "But no....no....no....no....no....Kobe has no defining moments." GTFOH:roll:

Actually the only thing that I was thinking about when Lebron popped in my head was his finals performance, because it was better than any Kobe final performance. That's why I said he has more memorable moments than Kobe, because of one finals.

But yeah, that Game 6 was very memorable. Biggest game of his life. Injured Chris Bosh. Everyone expecting Lebron to fail. I know it's a few months, but if you really go back to then, it was a huge moment.

[boojitede]

lol wtf...


when was the last time a guy in his 17th season won finals mvp

its never happend

kobe will be the first. so if he doesnt do it... its not like its a huge failure


lebron lost with 2 other hall of famers in their prime ( and himself in his prime ) to dallas with just basically dirk playing anywhere near his prime. and the only other HOF'r ( kidd ) not near an allstar level

in what UNIVERSE is bosh a hall of famer? :biggums:

:coleman:

:coleman:

[swag2011]

:coleman:
When people talk about defying moments where the player got in the zone and took over to beat a team in a series when everything looked doubtful, hitting clutch shots after clutch shots in those situations. They're always talking about the playoff, not some meaningless game against the worst team in the league. The regular season was the furthest thing from my mind.

Nobody talks about Jordan's 69 points as one of those moments, and other such regular season games, it's in the playoffs. That clutch steal by bird to beat the Pistons. The Flu game, Jordan's last shot. Those kinds of moments, on a big stage. Not against the Raptors who cared so little about that regular season game that they were barely lifting their hand up whenever Kobe shot.

Even Lebron has bigger moments. Kobe has had the opposite, like those 4 air balls against Utahs. It's the opposite of those moments that I'm talking about.

STFU! You must just really started watching the NBA to sit here and say Kobe has no defining playoff moments. The fact that you said Lebron shows your age. I'm sure your gunna bring up his 45-15-5 performance this year right?

01 Semis, Game 4 Kings. 48 points, 16 rebounds 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjfxlvvXfSw

01 WCF Game 1 Spurs. 45/10/5 54% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkvpnmAk2xU&feature=related

01 WCF Game 3 Spurs. 36/9/8 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfR2pDOt3k&feature=related

He averaged 33/7/7 on 53% shooting against the Spurs that series.

And of course EVERYONE remembers in 00 when Shaq fouled out and Kobe took over in overtime. 28/5/4 plus game winning tip in shot. 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI

And this is just early 00s. I could easily bring up some of his playoff runs from 08/09/10.

So please sit the f*ck down and STFU. You don't know sh*t, you just hate Kobe. Focus on your irrelevant Knicks making it out of the first round.

[WeGetRing2012]

Wow, Jordan would have to brick 5 shots in a row just to match Kobe's.

Somebody else said that about Kobe, my reason and point is that Kobe has no defining movements like the typical top 10 players. Like the Olajuwon's, Bird's, and Jordan's. In fact he has a lot of moments of others in his team stepping it up and bailing him out.

Yeah & thats not true. In that same series he scored 25 points in a quarter. Just because your mind blocks it out doesnt mean it didn't happen.

[WeGetRing2012]

:coleman:

STFU! You must just really started watching the NBA to sit here and say Kobe has no defining playoff moments. The fact that you said Lebron shows your age. I'm sure your gunna bring up his 45-15-5 performance this year right?

01 Semis, Game 4 Kings. 48 points, 16 rebounds 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjfxlvvXfSw

01 WCF Game 1 Spurs. 45/10/5 54% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkvpnmAk2xU&feature=related

01 WCF Game 3 Spurs. 36/9/8 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfR2pDOt3k&feature=related

He averaged 33/7/7 on 53% shooting against the Spurs that series.

And of course EVERYONE remembers in 00 when Shaq fouled out and Kobe took over in overtime. 28/5/4 plus game winning tip in shot. 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI

And this is just early 00s. I could easily bring up some of his playoff runs from 08/09/10.

So please sit the f*ck down and STFU. You don't know sh*t, you just hate Kobe. Focus on your irrelevant Knicks making it out of the first round.

http://lakernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/swag.jpg

[red1]

The pressure for this laker team is on dwight and nash. Mr potato head is gonna get fired too if they don't win this year

[LongLiveTheKing]

:coleman:

STFU! You must just really started watching the NBA to sit here and say Kobe has no defining playoff moments. The fact that you said Lebron shows your age. I'm sure your gunna bring up his 45-15-5 performance this year right?

01 Semis, Game 4 Kings. 48 points, 16 rebounds 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjfxlvvXfSw

01 WCF Game 1 Spurs. 45/10/5 54% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkvpnmAk2xU&feature=related

01 WCF Game 3 Spurs. 36/9/8 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfR2pDOt3k&feature=related

He averaged 33/7/7 on 53% shooting against the Spurs that series.

And of course EVERYONE remembers in 00 when Shaq fouled out and Kobe took over in overtime. 28/5/4 plus game winning tip in shot. 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI

And this is just early 00s. I could easily bring up some of his playoff runs from 08/09/10.

So please sit the f*ck down and STFU. You don't know sh*t, you just hate Kobe. Focus on your irrelevant Knicks making it out of the first round.

Lebrons had many games in the playoffs just as good as Kobe's.
Lebrons shot against the Magic is better than any of Kobe's shots.

[Calabis]

I guess Jordan shouldn't be top ten since he shot 6-19 in a close out NBA Finals.:rolleyes:

Players should be judge by their body of work. Kobe's resume is easily among the ten best in NBA history.

:facepalm You bring up Jordan's worst Finals Series performance(Sonics)and point out how bad it is....yet this is on par with Kobe's best, yet his are awesome:confusedshrug:

[LakersReign]

:coleman:

STFU! You must just really started watching the NBA to sit here and say Kobe has no defining playoff moments. The fact that you said Lebron shows your age. I'm sure your gunna bring up his 45-15-5 performance this year right?

01 Semis, Game 4 Kings. 48 points, 16 rebounds 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjfxlvvXfSw

01 WCF Game 1 Spurs. 45/10/5 54% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkvpnmAk2xU&feature=related

01 WCF Game 3 Spurs. 36/9/8 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfR2pDOt3k&feature=related

He averaged 33/7/7 on 53% shooting against the Spurs that series.

And of course EVERYONE remembers in 00 when Shaq fouled out and Kobe took over in overtime. 28/5/4 plus game winning tip in shot. 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI

And this is just early 00s. I could easily bring up some of his playoff runs from 08/09/10.

So please sit the f*ck down and STFU. You don't know sh*t, you just hate Kobe. Focus on your irrelevant Knicks making it out of the first round.

jstern is as much of a Knicks fan as 32dayz was. It's CLEAR he's nothing more than yet another OBVIOUS bandwagon Lebron fan, who doesn't have the balls to rep Lebron straight up. So, he slaps another team logo/player on his profile, to try and fool people into thinking he's being objective when dissing the Lakers/Kobe. But regardless of what they do, their irrational, idiotic Kobe hate(like saying dumb sh*t like Kobe has no memorable moments) ALWAYS gives them away:hammerhead:

[DMAVS41]

I don't think Kobe not winning the title next year would hurt his legacy all that much in broad terms.

However, if the Lakers were to lose in the finals to the Heat and Lebron wins finals MVP and plays great...Lebron might have the resume to knock Kobe out of the top 10. It would mainly be about Lebron's resume and play, but beating Kobe on a team with Nash, Gasol, and Howard would add a little luster to it.

Especially if Lebron were to win MVP again. 4 mvps, 2 finals mvps, two titles, and the absurd regular season and playoff numbers Lebron has...combined with a level of play, in my opinion, that Kobe never has reached....that all might be enough for Lebron to leapfrog guys like Hakeem and Kobe in all time rankings....and getting very close to jumping over Bird as well...at least on my list.

[WeGetRing2012]

Lebrons had many games in the playoffs just as good as Kobe's.
Lebrons shot against the Magic is better than any of Kobe's shots.

:lol

[LongLiveTheKing]

:lol
Why are you laughing? It's true.

[lilgodfather1]

I don't think Kobe not winning the title next year would hurt his legacy all that much in broad terms.

However, if the Lakers were to lose in the finals to the Heat and Lebron wins finals MVP and plays great...Lebron might have the resume to knock Kobe out of the top 10. It would mainly be about Lebron's resume and play, but beating Kobe on a team with Nash, Gasol, and Howard would add a little luster to it.

Especially if Lebron were to win MVP again. 4 mvps, 2 finals mvps, two titles, and the absurd regular season and playoff numbers Lebron has...combined with a level of play, in my opinion, that Kobe never has reached....that all might be enough for Lebron to leapfrog guys like Hakeem and Kobe in all time rankings....and getting very close to jumping over Bird as well...at least on my list.
I don't think the bolded is an opinion. I think it is far closer to a fact...

[jstern]

:coleman:

STFU! You must just really started watching the NBA to sit here and say Kobe has no defining playoff moments. The fact that you said Lebron shows your age. I'm sure your gunna bring up his 45-15-5 performance this year right?

01 Semis, Game 4 Kings. 48 points, 16 rebounds 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjfxlvvXfSw

01 WCF Game 1 Spurs. 45/10/5 54% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkvpnmAk2xU&feature=related

01 WCF Game 3 Spurs. 36/9/8 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfR2pDOt3k&feature=related

He averaged 33/7/7 on 53% shooting against the Spurs that series.

And of course EVERYONE remembers in 00 when Shaq fouled out and Kobe took over in overtime. 28/5/4 plus game winning tip in shot. 51% FG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI

And this is just early 00s. I could easily bring up some of his playoff runs from 08/09/10.

So please sit the f*ck down and STFU. You don't know sh*t, you just hate Kobe. Focus on your irrelevant Knicks making it out of the first round.

Perhaps you're not understanding. I'm not talking about having great series, but basically Kobe has been criticized for having a lack of defining moments that sticks in the public's minds that other all time greats have, and instead has a lot of moments where his teammates are bailing him out and hitting clutch shots. Not to forget his Finals low shooting percentage. It always seems like others are the ones stepping it up. Not a knock on Kobe, just that when you compare the to the average top ten players, it seems like Kobe's success has more to do with being incredibly lucky.

Back in 2010 I think it was inside the NBA were doing the top ten playoff moments or performances of the past ten years, and Kobe only had one.


Yeah & thats not true. In that same series he scored 25 points in a quarter. Just because your mind blocks it out doesnt mean it didn't happen.

Oh, I did not block that out at all. He had 25 points in the 3rd quarter. Kobe was so hot that quarter, it was a thing of beauty. But that was it. Completely cooled off in the 4th, and the Lakers lost that game if memory serves correctly. It wasn't regarded as an all time great moment by anyone, because he cooled off, and the Lakers lost. If he had done that in the 4th and the Lakers win because of that performance, then totally different scenario.

If anything that 3rd quarter at least saved him from not having a below 40% FG%.

[longtime lurker]

I don't think Kobe not winning the title next year would hurt his legacy all that much in broad terms.

However, if the Lakers were to lose in the finals to the Heat and Lebron wins finals MVP and plays great...Lebron might have the resume to knock Kobe out of the top 10. It would mainly be about Lebron's resume and play, but beating Kobe on a team with Nash, Gasol, and Howard would add a little luster to it.

Especially if Lebron were to win MVP again. 4 mvps, 2 finals mvps, two titles, and the absurd regular season and playoff numbers Lebron has...combined with a level of play, in my opinion, that Kobe never has reached....that all might be enough for Lebron to leapfrog guys like Hakeem and Kobe in all time rankings....and getting very close to jumping over Bird as well...at least on my list.

:kobe:

Lebron still has to knock Hakeem and Duncan out of the top 10 before he sets his sights on Kobe. Calm down

[LakersReign]

Perhaps you're not understanding. I'm not talking about having great series, but basically Kobe has been criticized for having a lack of defining moments that sticks in the public's minds that other all time greats have, and instead has a lot of moments where his teammates are bailing him out and hitting clutch shots. Not to forget his Finals low shooting percentage. It always seems like others are the ones stepping it up. Not a knock on Kobe, just that when you compare the to the average top ten players, it seems like Kobe's success has more to do with being incredibly lucky.

Back in 2010 I think it was inside the NBA were doing the top ten playoff moments or performances of the past ten years, and Kobe only had one.

Since you CAN'T AND WON'T post ANY links to back up that LUDICROUS claim, it's way obvious that the only people who "criticize" Kobe for things like that are undercover Lebron fans like you.:sleeping

[The Iron Fist]

Perhaps you're not understanding. I'm not talking about having great series, but basically Kobe has been criticized for having a lack of defining moments that sticks in the public's minds that other all time greats have, and instead has a lot of moments where his teammates are bailing him out and hitting clutch shots. Not to forget his Finals low shooting percentage. It always seems like others are the ones stepping it up. Not a knock on Kobe, just that when you compare the to the average top ten players, it seems like Kobe's success has more to do with being incredibly lucky.

Back in 2010 I think it was inside the NBA were doing the top ten playoff moments or performances of the past ten years, and Kobe only had one.



Oh, I did not block that out at all. He had 25 points in the 3rd quarter. Kobe was so hot that quarter, it was a thing of beauty. But that was it. Completely cooled off in the 4th, and the Lakers lost that game if memory serves correctly. It wasn't regarded as an all time great moment by anyone, because he cooled off, and the Lakers lost. If he had done that in the 4th and the Lakers win because of that performance, then totally different scenario.

If anything that 3rd quarter at least saved him from not having a below 40% FG%.
No need for a defining moment when dude is a five time champ.

[DMAVS41]

:kobe:

Lebron still has to knock Hakeem and Duncan out of the top 10 before he sets his sights on Kobe. Calm down

Calm down? Duncan is easily higher on my list. And Hakeem is as well....

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe is 34 and on the way out. It's not his job to lead this team anymore. We'll go as far as Dwight takes us.

[longtime lurker]

I disagree. This is Kobe's team. He has made that clear.

Let's get away from all the rubbish talk with materialistic accolades like rings and stats.

Real talk.

Kobe just aint that great if he can't take this team to the championship. Period. He is not playing injured; he is still in his older prime; he's got them legs.

The big cloud on Kobe's head is whether or not he is a true leader. Remember more than half of those rings belong to Shaq.

What the fvck? What should we judge NBA players on then? Who has the nicest hair :lol stupidity like this needs to be purged from ISH

[longtime lurker]

Kobe is 34 and on the way out. It's not his job to lead this team anymore. We'll go as far as Dwight takes us.

Wrong. Kobe is still the emotional leader. He needs to set the tone as far as focus and the personality of this team. Dwight's clown act isn't going to cut it

[funnystuff]

What the fvck? What should we judge NBA players on then? Who has the nicest hair :lol stupidity like this needs to be purged from ISH
Rings almost have nothing to do with individual talent/skill.

[jjayfive]

kobe is top 10, can't diminish what he has already accomplished..

he had many defining moments during the playoffs.. off the top of my head:

-kobe taking over against the pacers in overtime when shaq fouled out.

-I believe he had an insane series against the spurs on the second championship with shaq.

-phoenix series with smush parker as the point guard...

-2010 phoenix series and when he took over game 6

career playoff average is 25, 5, 4.. his numbers would be higher if you take off his first to years averaging 8pts...

including his career as a whole, not many players have a better resume... not many players win without a good supporting cast... and there are many who have lost with some good teammates..

[Jacks3]

So he should be dropped from the top 10 based on what happens in his 17th season...where he's well past his prime...and even though he already has 5 rings.

:biggums:

[BEAST Griffin]

i don't have him in the top 10 anyways

[Heavincent]

Like somebody else said, someone that shoots 6-24 in a game 7 NBA finals shouldn't be top ten. For the last two years the Kobe stans have slowly put Kobe in the top ten, with constantly referring him as a top ten every where they could. It's very effective. Two years ago Kobe was referred to as a top 15 to 20 players by many unbiased fans who now say he's top ten, mean while during that time he has been sweaped by Dallas, and had those choke jobs in Dallas. He's a 41% career finals shooter, who unlike every other top 10 player doesn't have defining moments where he just stepped it up and put the team un his back. The only Lakers who has done that during Kobe's time is Fisher, hitting clutch shots and Shaq completely stepping it up during the Finals.

What an unbelievably retarded post.

Do people like you even think for like 2 seconds before posting? Or do you just kind of type whatever retarded thoughts comes to your mind? I'm betting it's the latter.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

So we have some people that say if he doesn't win this year with a so-called stacked team then he isn't a top ten player. Then we have some that say if he does win this year it doesn't mean anything because he has a stacked team. This season is at once the most important season of his career and the least important season of his career.

Could it be that there are some folks here that are just looking for ways that they can discredit him? Could it be that they are trying to clutch onto the legacy of a retired player (Jordan)? Or perhaps are they trying to ensure that the legacy of a young player (Lebron) will exceed Kobe's? Pathetic.

[WeGetRing2012]

Wrong. Kobe is still the emotional leader. He needs to set the tone as far as focus and the personality of this team. Dwight's clown act isn't going to cut it

But when Kobe when #6 you will be singing a whole other tune...:rolleyes:

[fpliii]

eh, I don't care either way really

you win as a team, you lose as a team

[Is He Ill]

Pshhhh...GTFOH, we're talking about a legend. Gotta love the Kobe haters. I've watched the dude destroy our conference time and time again. Best player of this generation, hands down. It's going to be his 17th season, stop acting like this is prime Kobe or some sh*t.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Pshhhh...GTFOH, we're talking about a legend. Gotta love the Kobe haters. I've watched the dude destroy our conference time and time again. Best player of this generation, hands down. It's going to be his 17th season, stop acting like this is prime Kobe or some sh*t.
Coming from a Spurs fan
Respect :cheers:

[DirtySanchez]

Kobe's legacy is set already as a top 7-10 player of all-time.

Anything he does now is just gravy to his resume.
This

[Jacks3]

Pshhhh...GTFOH, we're talking about a legend. Gotta love the Kobe haters. I've watched the dude destroy our conference time and time again. Best player of this generation, hands down. It's going to be his 17th season, stop acting like this is prime Kobe or some sh*t.
Great post.

:applause:

[NumberSix]

Wasn't this exact argument made by Kobetards that if LeBron couldn't win with Wade & Bosh it would diminish his legacy? Oh, these rules don't apply now?

Hypocrisy much?

[G-Funk]

Wasn't this exact argument made by Kobetards that if LeBron couldn't win with Wade & Bosh it would diminish his legacy? Oh, these rules don't apply now?

Hypocrisy much?

Losing in the Finals doesnt tarnish your legacy unless you dont have one. look at Magic, Bird, Shaq they all lost it happens.

[White Mamba]

Pshhhh...GTFOH, we're talking about a legend. Gotta love the Kobe haters. I've watched the dude destroy our conference time and time again. Best player of this generation, hands down. It's going to be his 17th season, stop acting like this is prime Kobe or some sh*t.


Thread

[raprap]

Kobes legacy is already a lock. He's stock will only go up at his age.


Kobe Bryant.



:applause:

[Heavincent]

Yup, Kobe is a top 10 player all time and that won't change any time soon, I think people are just gonna have to...

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/204211-2/Cat-surfboard-escape-deal-with-it.gif

[RRR3]

Yup, Kobe is a top 10 player all time and that won't change any time soon, I think people are just gonna have to...

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/204211-2/Cat-surfboard-escape-deal-with-it.gif
LOL awesome gif. I should use that one :pimp:

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe's already a top 10 player at this point; he won't cease to be one because of anything he hypothetically fails to do from here on out.

[BlackVVaves]

Great thread. Will read again, and again, and again.

[Heavincent]

LOL awesome gif. I should use that one :pimp:

i just wanted an excuse to post it.

Might as well post some more gifs and pictures since this thread sucks anyway

http://gifs.gifbin.com/3sw420787yu4.gif

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/user_photos/1206147/06ac74dd6fcbdee1211b8ef207338a41_width_640x.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8us91Otd11rv0o74o1_1280.jpg

[longtime lurker]

Rings almost have nothing to do with individual talent/skill.

So should we judge players on who's the most "talented"? I thought the whole point of playing the game is the win championships, not put up stats. If you were paying attention the guy wrote that players shouldn't be judged on stats or rings so what then? :confusedshrug:

[riseagainst]

dang.... talk about a thread backfire. :oldlol:

[funnystuff]

So should we judge players on who's the most "talented"? I thought the whole point of playing the game is the win championships, not put up stats. If you were paying attention the guy wrote that players shouldn't be judged on stats or rings so what then? :confusedshrug:
How about watching them play?

[madmax]

:lol

I see no lies here:confusedshrug: :cheers:

[Dictator]

How to make troll threads reasonable.

http://cdn.nudevector.com/t/161/110.jpg

http://pornorealism.com/_uploads/bbo/ass100524_lisa_ann.jpg

[lilgodfather1]

lol wtf...


when was the last time a guy in his 17th season won finals mvp

its never happend

kobe will be the first. so if he doesnt do it... its not like its a huge failure


lebron lost with 2 other hall of famers in their prime ( and himself in his prime ) to dallas with just basically dirk playing anywhere near his prime. and the only other HOF'r ( kidd ) not near an allstar level


plus... the heat are almost just as stacked as LA.

so itel be kobe/nash/howard/artest/jamison vs lebron/wade/bosh/lewis/allen

i say the lakers are better. but its not like the lakers have as big an advantage as the heat had over dallas in 2011 AND STILL LOST


so by the OP's logit. theres no way lebron should ever be top 10

:lol
Bosh might not be a HOFer. And maybe no 17th season players have been FMVP, but 34 year olds have...

[riseagainst]

How to make troll threads reasonable.

http://cdn.nudevector.com/t/161/110.jpg

http://pornorealism.com/_uploads/bbo/ass100524_lisa_ann.jpg

lisa ann. :bowdown: :bowdown:

[IamRAMBO24]

What the fvck? What should we judge NBA players on then? Who has the nicest hair :lol stupidity like this needs to be purged from ISH

No.

We judge based on raw talent. Only true athletes and OG sports fans can understand this concept.

We find rings a generic evaluation of individual tenacity because it is based on a team concept.

That's why I refer to the words, "real talk."

[IamRAMBO24]

I know you kobetards are coming out of the woodwork like a pack of hyenas getting all hot and horny whenever you see Kobe being called out, but I am making a legit point.

I don't care about all the excuses; he's still in his prime. Aren't you guys harping about this in 2012? Now you all of a sudden agree he should not lead this team because of his age?

WTF kind of illogical bullsh*t is that?

This is Kobe's team. He knows it; Dwight got punked into it; Nash has all along been wanting to hold his balls; and the potatoe head sweats in his sleep every night thinking of ways NOT to piss off Kobe.

This is his team; his responsibility.

All I'm saying is, if he doesn't win it, dude's legacy should take a hit. Sorry, but as stacked as this team is, there should be no reason why he should not win it all if he is as great as what you guys say he is.

That's all I'm saying. That we can at least agree with right?

"Kobe GAWD" .. remember that bullsh*t?

[tpols]

Ah... the robert horry argument. One of Ish's brightest stars is at it again:applause:

[The Iron Fist]

No.

We judge based on raw talent. Only true athletes and OG sports fans can understand this concept.

We find rings a generic evaluation of individual tenacity because it is based on a team concept.

That's why I refer to the words, "real talk."
Real talk, the greatest in every sport,


has been a champion.


If you're not playing to be called that, you're not playing sports.

[The Iron Fist]

So should we judge players on who's the most "talented"? I thought the whole point of playing the game is the win championships, not put up stats. If you were paying attention the guy wrote that players shouldn't be judged on stats or rings so what then? :confusedshrug:
PER will do.

[IamRAMBO24]

Why does it matter? Even if he does win, none of the haters (including you OP) will give him any credit anyway. He's top 10 already and will be regardless.

OMG dude go cry to mommy.

I'll give credit where it is due. Y'know if we paired up Jordan with The Dream and Stockton, wouldn't we all hold the same level of expectation from Jordan to pretty much win it all?

Dude Kobe is the best SG in the game, Howard is the best center, and Nash is arguably the best PG.

I saw this stupid ass "GAWD" video some overzealous fanboy made for him and I almost puked. I mean seriously are you guys that spiritually delusion you would worship him as a "God?"

If Kobe really is God then dude your God really sucks if he can't bring this team to a championship.

[ganja0710]

No dumbsh*t.

Lebron has a ring. The question is will Kobe get one with this stacked of a team.

Dude it's just sad if he doesn't get one. You can take Iverson out of retirement and have him chuck up balls in the corner and still win a ring with this team.
OP =
http://i45.tinypic.com/wv3joz.png
http://i45.tinypic.com/wv3joz.png
http://i45.tinypic.com/wv3joz.png

[IamRAMBO24]

Real talk, the greatest in every sport,


has been a champion.


If you're not playing to be called that, you're not playing sports.

So you are saying those who have not won a ring are not great?

[The Iron Fist]

So you are saying those who have not won a ring are not great?
Not at all, but if it makes you feel better, you can pretend.

[Vertical-24]

OMG....

First of all, why do you keep insisting Kobe is in his prime? Kobe has past that about 3 years ago (arguably longer). Is Kobe really THAT good to make you think he's still in his prime??? Mamba must be going to work.

Secondly, Kobe has the resume to prove he is a top-10 player. Point, blank, period. A Finals loss will not hurt a solid, 17-year old body of work. Kobe Bryant is 34 years old and at this point, all he cares about is a title. If he wins, he pads his resume. If he loses, he lost.

And please stop comparing a 27 year old, PRIME LeBron James to a 34 year old, PAST PRIME Kobe Bryant. I don't care if the Kobe-stans do it, to me you're just adding to the problem. Yes, Kobe has a great team. He is the best SG in the league. Howard is the best Center, however, Nash is not even solidly a consensus, Top-5 PG in the league (I believe he is but many don't), let alone the best PG in the league. Oh and btw, Nash is 38. He's not a 28 year old Dwyane Wade or 27 year old Chris Bosh, so stop pushing this whole comparative agenda.

If Kobe wins, it'll be because "he was on a stacked team!!". If Kobe loses, "Kobe's not even top 10 anymore!! That overrated chucker!".

" Well, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't."
- Bart Simpson, "Bart the Genius"

[Dictator]

OMG dude go cry to mommy.

I'll give credit where it is due. Y'know if we paired up Jordan with The Dream and Stockton, wouldn't we all hold the same level of expectation from Jordan to pretty much win it all?

Dude Kobe is the best SG in the game, Howard is the best center, and Nash is arguably the best PG.

I saw this stupid ass "GAWD" video some overzealous fanboy made for him and I almost puked. I mean seriously are you guys that spiritually delusion you would worship him as a "God?"

If Kobe really is God then dude your God really sucks if he can't bring this team to a championship.


:lol :roll: :roll: :roll:





What? :biggums:

[LA_Showtime]

I know you kobetards are coming out of the woodwork like a pack of hyenas getting all hot and horny whenever you see Kobe being called out, but I am making a legit point.

I don't care about all the excuses; he's still in his prime. Aren't you guys harping about this in 2012? Now you all of a sudden agree he should not lead this team because of his age?

WTF kind of illogical bullsh*t is that?

This is Kobe's team. He knows it; Dwight got punked into it; Nash has all along been wanting to hold his balls; and the potatoe head sweats in his sleep every night thinking of ways NOT to piss off Kobe.

This is his team; his responsibility.

All I'm saying is, if he doesn't win it, dude's legacy should take a hit. Sorry, but as stacked as this team is, there should be no reason why he should not win it all if he is as great as what you guys say he is.

That's all I'm saying. That we can at least agree with right?

"Kobe GAWD" .. remember that bullsh*t?

Kobe's about to play his 17th season. He's on the way out. Unless that knee surgery of his completely restores his athleticism, chances are this team will go as far as Dwight takes them. Kobe is still an important piece no doubt, but he is no longer the most important player on the Lakers, unless you're factoring in his potential ego issues and refusal to let Dwight do his thing. The only way Kobe will hurt his legacy is if he refuses to hand over the reigns and continues to shoot 43% from the field all while using up a ridiculous amount of his team's possessions. Given that we also signed Nash this summer, I doubt that will happen.

[kNicKz]

If Lebron is the 11th greatest player of all time after being swept in the finals, terminated by dirk, then finally winning with 3 all stars in the starting line up, then kobe is the goat :roll:

But we all know neither of these rankings are accurate

[LA_Showtime]

OMG....

First of all, why do you keep insisting Kobe is in his prime? Kobe has past that about 3 years ago (arguably longer). Is Kobe really THAT good to make you think he's still in his prime??? Mamba must be going to work.

Secondly, Kobe has the resume to prove he is a top-10 player. Point, blank, period. A Finals loss will not hurt a solid, 17-year old body of work. Kobe Bryant is 34 years old and at this point, all he cares about is a title. If he wins, he pads his resume. If he loses, he lost.

And please stop comparing a 27 year old, PRIME LeBron James to a 34 year old, PAST PRIME Kobe Bryant. I don't care if the Kobe-stans do it, to me you're just adding to the problem. Yes, Kobe has a great team. He is the best SG in the league. Howard is the best Center, however, Nash is not even solidly a consensus, Top-5 PG in the league (I believe he is but many don't), let alone the best PG in the league. Oh and btw, Nash is 38. He's not a 28 year old Dwyane Wade or 27 year old Chris Bosh, so stop pushing this whole comparative agenda.

If Kobe wins, it'll be because "he was on a stacked team!!". If Kobe loses, "Kobe's not even top 10 anymore!! That overrated chucker!".

" Well, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't."
- Bart Simpson, "Bart the Genius"

The fact a 34-year-old, 17-year veteran is even legitimate is pretty ridiculous. Add in the fact he may be a top five player and wow.

[LakersReign]

OMG....

First of all, why do you keep insisting Kobe is in his prime? Kobe has past that about 3 years ago (arguably longer). Is Kobe really THAT good to make you think he's still in his prime??? Mamba must be going to work.

Secondly, Kobe has the resume to prove he is a top-10 player. Point, blank, period. A Finals loss will not hurt a solid, 17-year old body of work. Kobe Bryant is 34 years old and at this point, all he cares about is a title. If he wins, he pads his resume. If he loses, he lost.

And please stop comparing a 27 year old, PRIME LeBron James to a 34 year old, PAST PRIME Kobe Bryant. I don't care if the Kobe-stans do it, to me you're just adding to the problem. Yes, Kobe has a great team. He is the best SG in the league. Howard is the best Center, however, Nash is not even solidly a consensus, Top-5 PG in the league (I believe he is but many don't), let alone the best PG in the league. Oh and btw, Nash is 38. He's not a 28 year old Dwyane Wade or 27 year old Chris Bosh, so stop pushing this whole comparative agenda.

If Kobe wins, it'll be because "he was on a stacked team!!". If Kobe loses, "Kobe's not even top 10 anymore!! That overrated chucker!".

" Well, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't."
- Bart Simpson, "Bart the Genius"

That's exactly why REAL NBA fans don't even take their crap seriously. They hate Kobe just to hate him, whether he performs good or bad, is irrelevant. Then try to turn right around and claim to have love for the game:facepalm

[riseagainst]

OMG dude go cry to mommy.

I'll give credit where it is due. Y'know if we paired up Jordan with The Dream and Stockton, wouldn't we all hold the same level of expectation from Jordan to pretty much win it all?

Dude Kobe is the best SG in the game, Howard is the best center, and Nash is arguably the best PG.

I saw this stupid ass "GAWD" video some overzealous fanboy made for him and I almost puked. I mean seriously are you guys that spiritually delusion you would worship him as a "God?"

If Kobe really is God then dude your God really sucks if he can't bring this team to a championship.


the fvck man.......
top 10 is suddenly arguable for being the best?

[And 1]

That's exactly why REAL NBA fans don't even take their crap seriously. They hate Kobe just to hate him, whether he performs good or bad, is irrelevant. Then try to turn right around and claim to have love for the game:facepalm

There are people who do that for all the stars with success and great fame, and that is undeniable.

In my opinion, the sad part is that logical posters who question Kobe are only answered by the illogical Kobe stans.

Illogical posters and trolls questioning Kobe are answered by logical Kobe fans. Happens to Lebron, etc, and it feels like it happens very often during my short time here, and so much rage is always produced :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

OMG....

First of all, why do you keep insisting Kobe is in his prime? Kobe has past that about 3 years ago (arguably longer). Is Kobe really THAT good to make you think he's still in his prime??? Mamba must be going to work.

Secondly, Kobe has the resume to prove he is a top-10 player. Point, blank, period. A Finals loss will not hurt a solid, 17-year old body of work. Kobe Bryant is 34 years old and at this point, all he cares about is a title. If he wins, he pads his resume. If he loses, he lost.

And please stop comparing a 27 year old, PRIME LeBron James to a 34 year old, PAST PRIME Kobe Bryant. I don't care if the Kobe-stans do it, to me you're just adding to the problem. Yes, Kobe has a great team. He is the best SG in the league. Howard is the best Center, however, Nash is not even solidly a consensus, Top-5 PG in the league (I believe he is but many don't), let alone the best PG in the league. Oh and btw, Nash is 38. He's not a 28 year old Dwyane Wade or 27 year old Chris Bosh, so stop pushing this whole comparative agenda.

If Kobe wins, it'll be because "he was on a stacked team!!". If Kobe loses, "Kobe's not even top 10 anymore!! That overrated chucker!".

" Well, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't."
- Bart Simpson, "Bart the Genius"
Exactly this. :applause:

[LakersReign]

There are people who do that for all the stars with success and great fame, and that is undeniable.

In my opinion, the sad part is that logical posters who question Kobe are only answered by the illogical Kobe stans.

Illogical posters and trolls questioning Kobe are answered by logical Kobe fans. Happens to Lebron, etc, and it feels like it happens very often during my short time here, and so much rage is always produced :oldlol:

It is what it is:rolleyes:

The problem most logical Laker/Kobe fans have is, how the haters are so willing to point out Kobe's faults, but so unwilling to point out, or even acknowledge Lebron's. The "rage" is just a bunch of know nothing about anything idiots with nothing better to do. So they come on the internet posting dumb stuff just to get attention. Then turn right around and get mad when they get themselves in way over their heads:facepalm

[JtotheIzzo]

Kobe stans can no longer hate on the Lebron parade for him being on a stacked team. The Lakers are easily the most stacked team in recent memory. In comparison, if this was the late 90s, they would have the best SG (Jordan), the best center (The Dream), and 2nd best PG (Stockton) on their team.

If Kobe can't win it all this year, I don't see how he can even be in the top 10. I know the argument will be "Oh he's got 5 rings." That is just a generic argument. Robert Horry has 8 rings and that does not reflect the SUBSTANCE of his real contributions on the court. Karl Malone is one of the greatest players I have ever seen but he has absolutely no rings.

Just real talk.

Kobe just aint got it if he can't pull this one off.

If LeBron ends up winning three or four in a row,then it won't be a stain on Kobe. If the Lakers get bounced before the finals, then your argument carries weight.

[IamRAMBO24]

OMG....

First of all, why do you keep insisting Kobe is in his prime? Kobe has past that about 3 years ago (arguably longer). Is Kobe really THAT good to make you think he's still in his prime??? Mamba must be going to work.

Secondly, Kobe has the resume to prove he is a top-10 player. Point, blank, period. A Finals loss will not hurt a solid, 17-year old body of work. Kobe Bryant is 34 years old and at this point, all he cares about is a title. If he wins, he pads his resume. If he loses, he lost.

And please stop comparing a 27 year old, PRIME LeBron James to a 34 year old, PAST PRIME Kobe Bryant. I don't care if the Kobe-stans do it, to me you're just adding to the problem. Yes, Kobe has a great team. He is the best SG in the league. Howard is the best Center, however, Nash is not even solidly a consensus, Top-5 PG in the league (I believe he is but many don't), let alone the best PG in the league. Oh and btw, Nash is 38. He's not a 28 year old Dwyane Wade or 27 year old Chris Bosh, so stop pushing this whole comparative agenda.

If Kobe wins, it'll be because "he was on a stacked team!!". If Kobe loses, "Kobe's not even top 10 anymore!! That overrated chucker!".

" Well, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't."
- Bart Simpson, "Bart the Genius"

Every year is important. Even Jordan got a lot of flack for his time at the Wizards and he was the best player in the league. Even today, there are arguments questioning Jordan's leadership since he could not develop the players on the Wizards.

Downplaying the addition of Nash and Howard is ridiculous. They also have key role players in Gasol and Artest. This is a pretty damn good team so stop with the excuses. Trying to use age as an excuse is also ridiculous. It's almost like you Laker stans are already preparing an excuse if they lose, so it is really you guys who can see no wrong in Kobe, not me.

If he wins it all, he's chill; if not, then every year from here on out will take a stab at his legacy. He's got 5 more years left. Do you think people will remember those 5 rings by then?

The argument will center around why couldn't he win it with such a good team.

The argument determines the legacy. Kobe needs to get his act straight or fatass Barkley and the rest of the loud mouth hacks will find a million reasons why he shouldn't be in the top ten.

[coin24]

Every year is important. Even Jordan got a lot of flack for his time at the Wizards and he was the best player in the league. Even today, there are arguments questioning Jordan's leadership since he could not develop the players on the Wizards.

Downplaying the addition of Nash and Howard is ridiculous. They also have key role players in Gasol and Artest. This is a pretty damn good team so stop with the excuses. Trying to use age as an excuse is also ridiculous. It's almost like you Laker stans are already preparing an excuse if they lose, so it is really you guys who can see no wrong in Kobe, not me.

If he wins it all, he's chill; if not, then every year from here on out will take a stab at his legacy. He's got 5 more years left. Do you think people will remember those 5 rings by then?

The argument will center around why couldn't he win it with such a good team.

The argument determines the legacy. Kobe needs to get his act straight or fatass Barkley and the rest of the loud mouth hacks will find a million reasons why he shouldn't be in the top ten.



1. You're a moron

2. Who talks about Jordans stint on the Wizards as you suggest?? He was 38-40 and had been retired for a few years. Everyone saw it for what it was. Seeing as you were probably 5 at the time i dont expect that you actually saw him play...

3. Dumb thread by an insecure Kobe hater. Get a life. You can support your team "LeBron" without hating Kobe. Cavs then Heat fan huh:oldlol:

[Thethirdguy]

Even today, there are arguments questioning Jordan's leadership since he could not develop the players on the Wizards.

By who? I would love to see one legit example of Jordan's legacy being questioned for this reason by anyone that matters


It's almost like you Laker stans are already preparing an excuse if they lose[/B]
Actually it's more like people responding to you "already preparing" to persecute Kobe for something that's irrelevant

His legacy is set. Get over it

[IamRAMBO24]

By who? I would love to see one legit example of Jordan's legacy being questioned for this reason by anyone that matters


Actually it's more like people responding to you "already preparing" to persecute Kobe for something that's irrelevant

His legacy is set. Get over it

No one's legacy is set dumbsh*t. Eventually there will be better players that will come along and knock Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, etc. off the top ten.

The question is how long will it take for Kobe to be knocked off? Let's say he retires tomorrow and never plays again, at best, he is a 6, right behind Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kareem, and Russell. Then factor in the Heat dynasty; if that team goes on to win more than 6, there is no way Kobe can hold on to that 6th slot, heck, if Wade ends up with more rings, he might top Kobe.

So this whole idea Kobe has won 5 and it is enough to "cement" his legacy is just rubbish. Nothing is set in stone; legacies will be forgotten.

The question is how much of an impact will he make to keep him in the conversations years after he retires.

The point still stands, if he can't win another one with this stacked team, you can bet the conversation will switch from "5 rings" to whether or not he deserves to be top ten real quick.

Top ten isn't just some boy scout list. Kobe will have to play the best ball of his life from here on out to stay on that list for longer than 2 decades. I'm sorry, but 5 rings is small cake compare to what the other guys on the list have.

[LakersReign]

No one's legacy is set dumbsh*t. Eventually there will be better players that will come along and knock Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, etc. off the top ten.

The question is how long will it take for Kobe to be knocked off? Let's say he retires tomorrow and never plays again, at best, he is a 6, right behind Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kareem, and Russell. Then factor in the Heat dynasty; if that team goes on to win more than 6, there is no way Kobe can hold on to that 6th slot, heck, if Wade ends up with more rings, he might top Kobe.

So this whole idea Kobe has won 5 and it is enough to "cement" his legacy is just rubbish. Nothing is set in stone; legacies will be forgotten.

The question is how much of an impact will he make to keep him in the conversations years after he retires.

The point still stands, if he can't win another one with this stacked team, you can bet the conversation will switch from "5 rings" to whether or not he deserves to be top ten real quick.

The sad part is he actually believes the bullcrap he's posting:facepalm

Just gotta love it how ALL you "Heat" fans wanted to trade Wade, before the Heat won. Now you're all trying to prop him up. Hilarious. The Heat dynasty....huh? Would that be the same one that was supposed to start the minute Lebron put on a Heat uni? Love it how you keep saying "people" say this and "people" say that, but CAN'T seem to quote who these "people" are. Coincidence or recurring pattern? Everything you're posting is nothing more than your own Kobe hater opinion, backed up with MORE of your own Kobe hater opinion. Hoping to fool reasonable people into taking you seriously. Good luck with all that:rolleyes:

[Thethirdguy]

Yes, I understand that player rankings are not set in stone. Thanks for clearing that up though.

[IamRAMBO24]

The sad part is he actually believes the bullcrap he's posting:facepalm

Just gotta love it how ALL you "Heat" fans wanted to trade Wade, before the Heat won. Now you're all trying to prop him up. Hilarious. The Heat dynasty....huh? Would that be the same one that was supposed to start the minute Lebron put on a Heat uni? Love it how you keep saying "people" say this and "people" say that, but CAN'T seem to quote who these "people" are. Coincidence or recurring pattern? Everything you're posting is nothing more than your own Kobe hater opinion, backed up with MORE of your own Kobe hater opinion. Hoping to fool reasonable people into taking you seriously. Good luck with all that:rolleyes:

LakersReign,

Dude you have no life. Man I used to post as hardcore as you until I figure out there was air outside and then I met this girl and I found out what a pussssy is, oh yea, and also found out the great use of this green paper that has a president on it and I went to work.

Good ole LakersFEIGN. Still posting like he's on crack. He wakes up and the first thing he does is jump online; I wouldn't be surprise if he bought an Ipad so he can post while taking a dump, and uses Kobe's jersey to clean up the jizzz while watching replays of Kobe's 80+ performance.

I'm kidding man.

But seriously your love for Kobe is border-lining an neurotic obsession. Lebron isn't even my fav player (that award goes to Anthony Davis) and even I would be the first to criticize him if he screws up.

I'm not a Kobe hater; you're just a Kobe dick s*cker. Fact.

[LakersReign]

Struck a nerve(rambo) on that last post....huh?:lol

Oh, and by the way, women don't like pure g*y a** b***hes(rambo) like you(rambo). ANY dude(rambo), who tries to act like he's MORE a woman, than a REAL one, is a complete turn-off. They like their men to act/think/walk/talk like a man. And if you(rambo) really knew anything about women to begin with, you should already know that. Sure seemed like a good idea at the time....didn't it?:facepalm

You're(rambo) mad as ****, over a post(that they keep claiming(lying) is supposedly unintentionally funny), on a message board on the internet. Which means you(rambo) OBVIOUSLY take this way more seriously than any NORMAL person with a life outside of the internet would/should. And yet you(rambo) think I'm still somehow supposed to take advice about women from you?http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/stephen-a-smith-laugh.gif




AND......cue the pathetic sock puppet peanut gallery)

[Pinkhearts]

What happens if Lebron doesn't win this year with the stacked team of his?

[IamRAMBO24]

What happens if Lebron doesn't win this year with the stacked team of his?

His legacy will diminished.

My point is legit. I stand by it.

[SyRyanYang]

The real question is, if my Lakers got beaten in the final by the heat. Will Lebron kick Kobe out of top ten?

[NumberSix]

These oranges are good.

[longtime lurker]

His legacy will diminished.


My point is legit. I stand by it.

You're an idiot

[IamRAMBO24]

You're an idiot

I'm the idiot? Ok let's sum up this entire thread.

1. A point was made: if Kobe cannot win anymore rings especially with this stacked team, his legacy will diminish.

2. All of a sudden, a pack of Kobe hyenas started flooding this thread expressing their deep conviction and love for their cult leader. Even LakersReign shed a tear as he types the letters 5-R-I-N-G-S.

3. The argument then centers around a bunch of excuses: first was age. If age was such a factor, then why was Kobe 1st all NBA and why was Nash running circles around some rookies and sophomores last season? It seems like age is an asset in this case rather than a negative.

4. Second was: Kobe has cement his legacy. Another stupid ass argument; no legacies are cement in stone. If Kobe is bringing in 5 rings to the top ten, he is going to get reamed in a decade or so when newer and better stars come along. Guys like Bird, Magic, Jordan, and Russell are gonna be there for a long time because both of their hands are covered in rings. Kobe only has one hand while the other one is holding his d*ck.

Which goes back to my main conclusion: Kobe still has a lot of work to do; the next 2-5 years or however long he chooses to play, will have a huge impact on whether or not he is a generational player. Right now, at best he will be top 10 for a decade or so and, at worse, he'll be knocked out within 5-7 years after retirement.

[IamRAMBO24]

Yes, you(rambo) are, and I agree 100%!!!!:applause:

Real sad that it took you(rambo) 9 pages to figure that one out though:hammerhead:

Y'know what is funny? I was joking about how you wake up and the first thing you do is to jump on ISH and post. It's like 12pm and your ugly ass is still posting AFTER you went to sleep at 4am.

Be honest and please answer this question seriously: do you have a life?

[Heavincent]

LakersReign, why do you (lakersreign) put the person you (lakersreign) are responding too in parentheses? What's the point of that?

[IamRAMBO24]

You know what's really pathetic(rambo)? It's how you(rambo) sit there, BLATANTLY MAKING STUFF UP, believe it, then turn right around and BEG me to agree with you, to give you(rambo) the credibility you(rambo) OBVIOUSLY don't have. Then on top of all that, have the nerve to claim to supposedly have a life outside of the internet. Cuz according to you(rambo) that's supposedly the sort of thing people with lives outside of the internet supposedly do. Good luck with all that:rolleyes:

It's not me dude. It's you. Like I said, I'm not a Kobe hater, you're just a Kobe dick s*cker. You have his throbbing p**nis solely resting on the tip of your tongue. All this hate is from you. I have been logical, reasonable, and above all I have supported each and everyone of my premises.

You on the other hand, can argue none.

[LakersReign]

It's not me dude. It's you. Like I said, I'm not a Kobe hater, you're just a Kobe dick s*cker. You have his throbbing p**nis solely resting on the tip of your tongue. All this hate is from you. I have been logical, reasonable, and above all I have supported each and everyone of my premises.

You on the other hand, can argue none.

You(rambo) seriously NEED to take Lebron's d**k out of your(rambo) mouth....FIRST....BEFORE...you(rambo) say stuff like that. It'll make you(rambo) look like less of a pure dumba**(rambo):hammerhead:

Just gotta love it how he(rambo) blows a gasket, starts posting a bunch of bullsh*t he(rambo) MADE UP, that has nothing to do with anything. Then turns right around and tries to claim he's supposedly being reasonablehttp://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx150/cousin_e/OHDAMNLOL.gif

[IamRAMBO24]

You(rambo) seriously NEED to take Lebron's d**k out of your(rambo) mouth....FIRST....BEFORE...you(rambo) say stuff like that. It'll make you(rambo) look like less of a pure dumba**(rambo):hammerhead:

Then argue the premises dumbsh*t.

Trust me, you're the one looking really stupid if you can't put up a proper rebuttal.

[Jacks3]

Shouldn't Dwight get the blame if they lose? Considering he's the best player?

Isn't that how it usually goes?

And if they do win, does Kobe move up all-time? Or does it "not count" like the 3-peat? :lol

[LakersReign]

Then argue the premises dumbsh*t.

Trust me, you're the one looking really stupid if you can't put up a proper rebuttal.

Child(rambo) please:rolleyes:

Keep trying to bait me into "debating" your own(rambo) Kobe hater opinion, you backed up with nothing more than your own Kobe hater opinion. Trying to fool reasonable people into buying into your(rambo) hater crap. I couldn't help but notice how you(rambo) still CAN'T AND WON'T show us these supposed "people" who supposedly agree with you? Coincidence, or recurring pattern? Most of the replies in this thread call you a moron, which is pretty much the correct response. Which of course, you(rambo) CONVENIENTLY ignore, simply cuz it doesn't fit your agenda. Big surprise. Good luck with all that:hammerhead:

[mehyaM24]

His legacy will diminished.

My point is legit. I stand by it.

speaking of accolades, which mean SO MUCH. pretty funny how kobe is 2nd on his own starting backcourt in MVPS. :oldlol: with 2 teammates with a DPOY but not sidekick boy? Lmao. gonna be hilarious when they taunt kobe in the locker room about this.

[IamRAMBO24]

Child(rambo) please:rolleyes:

Keep trying to bait me into "debating" your own(rambo) Kobe hater opinion, you backed up with nothing more than your own Kobe hater opinion. Trying to fool reasonable people into buying into your(rambo) hater crap. Most of the replies in this thread call you a moron, which is pretty much the correct response. Which of course, you(rambo) CONVENIENTLY ignore, simply cuz it doesn't fit your agenda. Big surprise. Good luck with all that:hammerhead:

LOL.

Do you even know what an debate is? Someone presents an argument, supports the premise, and arrives at the conclusion.

Then waits for the rebuttal.

So basically, you're just caving in like a little b*tch.

[Jacks3]

That's OK. He can just point out that he has more rings than all them combined.

[mehyaM24]

That's OK. He can just point out that he has more rings than all them combined.

kobe ready to add to his record.....most playoff bricks ever.....:oldlol:

[LakersReign]

LOL.

Do you even know what a debate is? Someone presents an argument, supports the premise, and arrives at the conclusion.

Then waits for the rebuttal. It goes back and forth until a better truth comes along. There are no winners, both gain from the intellectual synthesis that comes from it.

So basically, you're just caving in like a little b*tch.

A debate is where you provide FACTS(information that can be looked up and verified to be correct) to back up what you're saying....NOT your own Kobe hater opinion, you're(rambo) backing up with MORE of your own Kobe hater opinion, DESPERATELY trying to pass it off as fact. A debate....IS NOT throwing around pathetic attempts at insults, simply cuz people don't agree with you. And the only person "caving like a b***h(rambo) is you(rambo), since that's really all you have. "oh...yeah....well....you know..."people say this and that," but yet he can't show us which "people" they supposedly are. Please continue to further embarrass yourself(rambo):facepalm

[Jacks3]

kobe ready to add to his record.....most playoff bricks ever.....:oldlol:
hurrr durrr

[IamRAMBO24]

A debate is where you provide FACTS to back up what you're saying....NOT your own Kobe hater opinion, you're(rambo) DESPERATELY trying to pass off as facts. A debate....IS NOT throwing around pathetic attempts at insults, simply cuz people don't agree with you. And the only person "caving like a b***h(rambo) is you(rambo), since that's really all you have. "oh...yeah....well....you know..."people say this and that," but yet he can't show us which "people" they supposedly are. Please continue to further embarrass yourself(rambo):facepalm

Then what is the point of having these discussions dumbsh*t? People around here are smart enough to understand a point being made. They don't go on a crazy neurotic tirade and call everyone a hater to try and somehow get out of the point they are trying to make.

I don't think you are intellectually capable of a rebuttal at this point. Sorry dude but all I hear is, "WAAAAAHHHHHHH HE HATES KOBE SO I HATE HIM" ... seriously dude? That's the rebuttal? You are going to call people haters because of your obsession with Kobe?

[LakersReign]

AND.....there he(rambo) goes AGAIN with YET ANOTHER pathetic temper tantrum, then tries to say he's "debating.":roll:


Pure hilarious stupidity(rambo):hammerhead:

[Legends66NBA7]

If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

It's your arbitrary rankings... whatever floats your boat.

There's still some holes on this team (perimeter defense; head coaching) and we don't know if Kobe will be playing at an elite level anymore.

Blame will fall more to Howard, if anything. It's more his reputation that's on the line, IMO. Howard's got more than enough help on the block and the wings, at least offensively.

[mehyaM24]

AND.....there he(rambo) goes AGAIN with YET ANOTHER pathetic temper tantrum, then tries to say he's "debating.":roll:


Pure hilarious stupidity(rambo):hammerhead:

sidekick boy will have to do it without...being a sidekick. lol. ohh wait, he just got 2 players whose accolades put his to shame. LET THE SIDEKICKING CONTINUE. :oldlol:

[ihoopallday]

Damn, some of you guys getting way too emotional. Remember, it's just the internet. Don't invest so much time arguing with someone you don't know.

[The Iron Fist]

I'm the idiot?


. Guys like Bird, Magic, are gonna be there for a long time because both of their hands are covered in rings. Kobe only has one hand while the other one is holding his d*ck.

[/B]:facepalm
How do Bird and magic have rings on both hands?


Yes, you are an idiot.

[IamRAMBO24]

:facepalm
How do Bird and magic have rings on both hands?


Yes, you are an idiot.

Bird and Magic have brought more to the game than anything Kobe has ever done. When he is scrutinized, most people will say Shaq is responsible for more than half of his ring and he is not a true leader.

At least Bird and Magic were true leaders of their team. I could of word it differently; it was an error in semantics, but both have brought more to the court than anything Kobe could ever dream of.

That was the point.

[ihatetimthomas]

If Kobe can't win a title then he doesn't have it and its all on him.

If Kobe wins a title then its because he is lucky and it because he has such a stacked team.

Yeah, this is why I don't post much here anymore.

[IamRAMBO24]

And what is sad is you stans are now saying it is Dwight's team. Magic and Bird wouldn't even play second fiddle to Jordan when both were in their last year of retirement and Jordan was coming off of his best run ever (MVP, FMVP, Multi-Championship) during the Olympics.

Magic and Bird would NEVER defer to any noob Laker. FACT.

[IamRAMBO24]

If Kobe can't win a title then he doesn't have it and its all on him.

If Kobe wins a title then its because he is lucky and it because he has such a stacked team.

Yeah, this is why I don't post much here anymore.

No.

If Kobe wins, then it will improve his legacy; if he doesn't, it will diminish it.

Stop acting like a fruitcake and understand the point.

[DMAVS41]

No.

If Kobe wins, then it will improve his legacy; if he doesn't, it will diminish it.

Stop acting like a fruitcake and understand the point.

It really won't diminish his legacy....unless of course he just chokes or plays terrible in a big moment, game, or series...and even then it would take a lot to diminish what he's already accomplished. At this point at his age and years in the league....it really is just 99% gravy unless something absurd happens.

Kobe right now is a borderline top 10 player. That doesn't mean he isn't top 10....he is right now for sure, but he's at the tail end of it with Hakeem on most lists I've seen. The highest I see Kobe or Hakeem are 8th all time. You have;

MJ, Russell, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq, Bird...all firmly in the top 8 or 9. And then you have Hakeem and Kobe.

The only way Kobe gets knocked out of the top 10 is for the Heat to win the title again...and for Lebron to win MVP and FMVP...and even then I'm not sure it would be enough. And even then it would be about where you rank Kobe going into this season.

So my point is that it won't diminish his legacy, but someone (really only Lebron) can greatly improve their legacy and get closer to or jump Kobe.

If the Heat were to win and Lebron won MVP, but Wade won FMVP and Wade had a great playoff run or something....then both Wade and Lebron get close to the Kobe level. Lebron, in my opinion, will ultimately end up being universally ranked higher than Kobe all time barring an injury or quick decline.

While it is unlikely, Wade's resume has a chance to get dramatically enhanced this year...especially if he were to outplay Kobe in the finals and win finals MVP. If the Heat win this year...Wade could potentially have a resume of 3 titles, 2 final mvps, and 25/6/5 career averages in the playoffs and regular season. That of course would not put him over Kobe, but it would probably vault him over West...or at least even with him...

So you could see a scenario in which Lebron is in the top 10 or knocking on its door after this year...while Wade is somewhere in the top 15.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...legacies or so fragile and so is winning and losing at times. Think about how close the Kobe/Shaq Lakers came to losing in both 00 and 02. About as close to losing as a team possibly can come really. But they found a way to win and their legacies reflect that. Lebron / Wade blew a huge chance to greatly improve their legacies in 11 when they lost to the Mavs. Wade would have 3 titles and 2 finals mvps right now...Lebron would have 2 titles right now. You can't blow those kind of opportunities very often because careers can be so limited.

But the point is that Kobe is top 10 until someone does something to get him out. Kobe can't do anything to move himself out of the top 10. It is going to take Lebron or Durant or to a much lesser extent Wade to do something to get in there.

[LakersReign]

And what is sad is you stans are now saying it is Dwight's team.

What's really sad, is that the only people saying hot garbage like that are moronic Lebron stans like you(rambo):roll:

MORE of his pathetic "people say" crap. But yet again, he CONVENIENTLY can't show us a link to where these "people" supposedly said anything like that. But of course to fit his hilariously stupid agenda, he's going to take the musings of 1 or 2 Kobe fans. And then try to say that ALL Laker/Kobe fans said that. Such pathetic nonsense:facepalm

[IamRAMBO24]

You Kobestans are only downplaying Kobe when you say this is Dwight's team.

Even I have more respect for him than that.

[IamRAMBO24]

So my point is that it won't diminish his legacy, but someone (really only Lebron) can greatly improve their legacy and get closer to or jump Kobe.

I know you wrote a lot but your main point all boils down to this.

If Kobe wins a couple of more rings, it will cement his legacy and push both Bird and Magic down a notch and quite possibly overtake Jordan if theoretically he wins 3 more before retirement.

Now let's say if Lebron pawns the Lakers and creates his own dynasty, right now Kobe is in slot 6, and if that happens you can sure bet Lebron will over take him and push him down a bit further (not to mention Durant or Rose if they ever get the same dream team).

So those who say he is finished and does not need to do anymore is just plain stupid. Kobe still has a lot to prove if he wants to join the elite club and remain there.

[DMAVS41]

I know you wrote a lot but your main point all boils down to this.

If Kobe wins a couple of more rings, it will cement his legacy and push both Bird and Magic down a notch and quite possibly overtake Jordan if theoretically he wins 3 more before retirement.

Now let's say if Lebron pawns the Lakers and creates his own dynasty, right now Kobe is in slot 6, and if that happens you can sure bet Lebron will over take him and push him down a bit further (not to mention Durant or Rose if they ever get the same dream team).

So those who say he is finished and does not need to do anymore is just plain stupid. Kobe still has a lot to prove if he wants to join the elite club and remain there.

Winning a ring alone for Kobe won't do that though. He's behind that elite group you speak of because of his level of play....not his ring count. I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding this.

Kobe already has 5 rings. Still to this day most people rank Bird higher...why?

[IamRAMBO24]

Winning a ring alone for Kobe won't do that though. He's behind that elite group you speak of because of his level of play....not his ring count. I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding this.

Kobe already has 5 rings. Still to this day most people rank Bird higher...why?

Half of those rings belong to Shaq; there was no question Bird was a true leader. And now we are talking about Kobe deferring to Dwight?

Please.

How can you rank him higher than Bird when he is nothing more than a servant?

[DMAVS41]

Half of those rings belong to Shaq; there was no question Bird was a true leader. And now we are talking about Kobe deferring to Dwight?

Please.

How can you rank him higher than Bird when he is nothing more than a servant?

I don't rank him higher than Bird. You make my point for me. Level of play still is what matter the most ultimately. It is why if Lebron wins the title this year while playing at a high level....a lot of people will rank Lebron over Kobe all time even though he only has 2 rings...and Lebron plays on a stacked team.

I rank Bird over Kobe simply because I thought Bird was a better player. They both proved enough to me in terms of winning and coming through...

And no, half of Kobe's rings do not belong to Shaq. In both 01 and 02 Kobe had fantastic playoff runs and did plenty enough to prove he deserves a lot of credit for those rings.

[IamRAMBO24]

And no, half of Kobe's rings do not belong to Shaq. In both 01 and 02 Kobe had fantastic playoff runs and did plenty enough to prove he deserves a lot of credit for those rings.

That team was Shaq's team. Don't try and sugar coat with a few good playoff plays when the defense was all focused on Shaq.

He ruled the basketball world. Every team would trade players, fire coaches, and draft fat big men *cough* Big Country to deal with Shaq.

To say Kobe was the leader of that team shows a basic lack of understanding of Shaq during those prime years.

[The Iron Fist]

Bird and Magic have brought more to the game than anything Kobe has ever done. When he is scrutinized, most people will say Shaq is responsible for more than half of his ring and he is not a true leader.

At least Bird and Magic were true leaders of their team. I could of word it differently; it was an error in semantics, but both have brought more to the court than anything Kobe could ever dream of.

That was the point.
No. The point is, you said magic and bird have rings on both hands while kobe has one.

You lie to try and make a point but that doesnt cut it.

[DMAVS41]

That team was Shaq's team. Don't try and sugar coat with a few good playoff plays when the defense was all focused on Shaq.

He ruled the basketball world. Every team would trade players, fire coaches, and draft fat big men *cough* Big Country to deal with Shaq.

To say Kobe was the leader of that team shows a basic lack of understanding of Shaq during those prime years.

Who said Kobe was the leader? I didn't...and I haven't seen anyone else say that either.

Shaq was the best player...no doubt. But it is you that lacks basic of understanding of basketball in general if you think a player that puts up 29/7/6 during a playoff run is relegated to "meaningless"...

Sigh...:wtf:

[IamRAMBO24]

No. The point is, you said magic and bird have rings on both hands while kobe has one.

You lie to try and make a point but that doesnt cut it.

You win.

[IamRAMBO24]

Who said Kobe was the leader? I didn't...and I haven't seen anyone else say that either.

Shaq was the best player...no doubt. But it is you that lacks basic of understanding of basketball in general if you think a player that puts up 29/7/6 during a playoff run is relegated to "meaningless"...

Sigh...:wtf:

Stats don't matter when we talk about the most important attribute to becoming a LEGEND: LEADERSHIP.

Jordan, Bird, Magic will forever cement their legacies in the top ten based on this attribute alone and not merely the number of rings they have.

Kobe has not yet proven he is a true leader. Bring this new team to multiple championships and prove he is the leader.

He himself said this is his team. Prove it.

[The Iron Fist]

Stats don't matter when we talk about the most important attribute to becoming a LEGEND: LEADERSHIP.

Jordan, Bird, Magic will forever cement their legacies in the top ten based on this attribute alone and not merely the number of rings they have.

Kobe has not yet proven he is a true leader. Bring this new team to multiple championships and prove he is the leader.

He himself said this is his team. Prove it.
Lol kobe hurts your feelings.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://nbadraft.net/forum/if-kobe-cant-win-it-all-2013-then-he-should-not-be-top-10

scroll down and see the 'IamRAMBO24's post

:biggums:

[The Iron Fist]

http://nbadraft.net/forum/if-kobe-cant-win-it-all-2013-then-he-should-not-be-top-10

scroll down and see the 'IamRAMBO24's post

:biggums:
:facepalm

"Kobe's already a top 10 player of all-time and he's already proven that he doesn't need this stacked of a team to win.

The only one who's legacy can really be hurt by this scenario is Dwight. For Kobe, it's just icing on an already great cake."

[LakersReign]

http://nbadraft.net/forum/if-kobe-cant-win-it-all-2013-then-he-should-not-be-top-10

scroll down and see the 'IamRAMBO24's post

:biggums:

:oldlol: @rambo coming on here, trying to act like EVERYBODY agrees with him:lol

He posts this same crap on another site, and gets pretty much the same responses. But yet in his warped pathetic Kobe hatin' mind, we're the ones who are supposedly wrong. Two completely different sites, but the same responses. At some point, he's going to have accept the FACT that he(rambo) truly is an idiot/moron:roll:

[TROLL_HUNTER]

wether or not Kobe is a top 10 this should have already been decided at this point of his career. Now that hes declining and playing along with Dwight, Gasol and Nash it is not going to make any difference wether he wins or not a new ring, understanding that for the Lakers to win it will take everyone being involved, not just Kobe in superhero mode.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Wasn't this exact argument made by Kobetards that if LeBron couldn't win with Wade & Bosh it would diminish his legacy? Oh, these rules don't apply now?

Hypocrisy much?
If Kobe, Nash, Dwight and Pau were still in their primes then yes, the same argument could be made.

[RaininTwos]

If Kobe, Nash, Dwight and Pau were still in their primes then yes, the same argument could be made.
That makes no sense. It's not like they are all a year from retirement, all of them are top ten and three out of the four could be argued as top 5 players at their position.

This is ridiculous man.

If you are going to hold a player to absurdly high standards, then be consistent. If you are going to be hypocritical then call a spade a spade and admit the fact that your boy is lesser.

This flip flopping Kobe fans have done over the past couple years in terms of logic is just disgusting. You guys have no shame.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

That makes no sense. It's not like they are all a year from retirement, all of them are top ten and three out of the four could be argued as top 5 players at their position.

This is ridiculous man.

If you are going to hold a player to absurdly high standards, then be consistent. If you are going to be hypocritical then call a spade a spade and admit the fact that your boy is lesser.

This flip flopping Kobe fans have done over the past couple years in terms of logic is just disgusting. You guys have no shame.
What the fck is This geek talking about? When Lebron teamed up with bosh and wade, the argument was Lebron betTer win a championship since all three of these guys are in their primes. I didn't engage in them arguments, but they did exist. Nobody is saying Kobe, Dwight and Nash should win it cause they're all in their prime. They are saying they should win because they are super talented.

[9erempiree]

Such stupid logic and claim the OP. You don't fall out of the top 10 unless someone surpasses you and Kobe is top 6. So 5 guys in the future would have to leap over him. It would take 6 Lebron's just to do that and they are once in a lifetime players.

It may take 50 years to see guys start dropping. Look at Wilt slowly dropping down on the list and that was because of guys like Jordan and perhaps Kobe. Only 2 players in a 50 year span.

[riseagainst]

That makes no sense. It's not like they are all a year from retirement, all of them are top ten and three out of the four could be argued as top 5 players at their position.

This is ridiculous man.

If you are going to hold a player to absurdly high standards, then be consistent. If you are going to be hypocritical then call a spade a spade and admit the fact that your boy is lesser.

This flip flopping Kobe fans have done over the past couple years in terms of logic is just disgusting. You guys have no shame.

what have they been flip flopping? :confusedshrug:

anyway so what ur saying is: if Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, Magic, and Bird came back from retirement RIGHT NOW and played on a team as starters with, let's say Blake Griffin (and let's assume he already has 5 rings with 2 fmvps prior to this). Your logic is saying if that team doesn't win then Blake Griffin will NEVER EVER be considered a top 10 player? :oldlol:

[Anaximandro1]

wether or not Kobe is a top 10 this should have already been decided at this point of his career.
Fans have different criteria as to what is important to them.

I'm pretty confident that Kobe doesn't belong in the Top 10,in terms of level of play,for several reasons:

-Elite big men are more dominant on the defensive side

-Kobe is a mediocre team player

-Bryant plays great against teams with a weakness in their perimeter defense (Spurs 2001 or 2008), but struggles to score against elite defenses.


1999 Western Conference Semifinals/ Spurs 4-0 over Lakers

21.2 pts (FG 44.7%)

2000 NBA Finals/ Lakers 4-2 over Pacers

15.6 pts (FG 36.7%)

2001 NBA Finals Finals/ Lakers 4-1 over Sixers

24.6 pts (FG 41.5%)

2003 Western Conference Semifinals/ Spurs 4-2 over Lakers

32.2 pts (FG 43.4% Kobe missed 90 of 159 shots)

2004 NBA Finals / Pistons 4-1 over Lakers

22.6 pts (FG 38.0%)

2008 NBA Finals / Celtics 4-2 over Lakers

25.7 pt (FG 40.5%)

2010 NBA Finals / Lakers 4-3 over Celtics

28.6 pts (FG 40.5%)

2011 Western Conference Semifinals / Mavs 4-0 over Lakers

23.3 pts (FG 45.8%)

-Kobe has never been the best player in the NBA. There is overwhelming evidence.


GM Survey: If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?


2002
1. Shaquille O'Neal,L.A. Lakers
2. Tim Duncan,San Antonio

2003
1. Tim Duncan,San Antonio
2. Shaquille O'Neal,L.A. Lakers

2004
1 Tim Duncan, San Antonio 47.6%
2 Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 28.6%
3 LeBron James, Cleveland 14.3%
4 Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 9.5

2005
1. Tim Duncan, San Antonio 40.0%
2. LeBron James, Cleveland 36.0%
3. Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 8.0%
4. Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix 8.0%

2006
1 LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%
2 Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

2007
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 59.3%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 25.9%
3. Tim Duncan, San Antonio 11.1%
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 11.1%
5. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas 3.7%

2008
1. LeBron James -- 66.7%
2. Kobe Bryant -- 18.5%
3. Dwight Howard -- 11.1%
4. Chris Paul - 3.7%

2009
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%

2010
1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City 55.6%
2. LeBron James, Miami 25.9%
3. Dwight Howard, Magic 7.4%
Kobe Bryant, Lakers 7.4%
5. Dwyane Wade, Miami 3.7%

2011
T1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City 37.0%
T1. LeBron James, Miami 37.0%
3. Derrick Rose, Chicago 14.8%
4. Dwight Howard, Orlando -- 7.4%
5. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 3.7%


since Kobe entered the league:

MVP

LeBron 3
Duncan 2
Malone 2
Nash 2
Jordan 1
Shaq 1
Iverson 1
KG 1
Dirk 1
Rose 1
Kobe 1


FMVP

Duncan 3
Shaq 3
Jordan 2
Kobe 2


Titles as the best player

Duncan 4
Shaq 3
Jordan 2
Kobe 2

[RaininTwos]

what have they been flip flopping? :confusedshrug:

anyway so what ur saying is: if Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, Magic, and Bird came back from retirement RIGHT NOW and played on a team as starters with, let's say Blake Griffin (and let's assume he already has 5 rings with 2 fmvps prior to this). Your logic is saying if that team doesn't win then Blake Griffin will NEVER EVER be considered a top 10 player? :oldlol:

That's actually the furthest away from what I said. Congrats on conjuring an idiotic post based on fantasy.

[RaininTwos]

What the fck is This geek talking about? When Lebron teamed up with bosh and wade, the argument was Lebron betTer win a championship since all three of these guys are in their primes. I didn't engage in them arguments, but they did exist. Nobody is saying Kobe, Dwight and Nash should win it cause they're all in their prime. They are saying they should win because they are super talented.

Why are you so defensive, you shouldn't take this so personal. I'm not the one uploading pics of me in a mirror and posting it on a predominantly male forum, now that would truly be geek material. I think what you are trying to say is that I am an intelligent guy who's destined for success and I thank you. Those are very kind words. I appreciate it bro. :cheers:

I never said that their situations were the exact same. My point is that all of the players on this Laker "Big Four" are all extremely effective and each of them are top ten at their respective positions. The reason why people were expecting Lebron and Co. to win immediately was because they were three great players coming together. They are an extremely top heavy team. That's why people expected them to win.

Don't cling to this whole "in prime" argument like Kobe/Nash/Gasol/Howard aren't extremely effective and skilled players. They have 4 of the top 25-30 players in the league on their team. That's just as top heavy as the Heat and they all are extremely experienced and savvy.

I don't agree with the OP but I can see hypocrisy from a mile away. When big names who are still effective come together, expectations are going to be placed on them. Just like the 04 Laker team.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Why are you so defensive, you shouldn't take this so personal. I'm not the one uploading pics of me in a mirror and posting it on a predominantly male forum, now that would truly be geek material. I think what you are trying to say is that I am an intelligent guy who's destined for success and I thank you. Those are very kind words. I appreciate it bro. :cheers:
I posted that pic 4 or 5 years ago, pretty cool the image is planted in your skull. As far as expectations go, sure if you wanna crown the Lakers, crown their fcking asses, I have no problem with it.

[eliteballer]

When are you people going to accept it's Kobe's destiny to be the GOAThttp://files.niketalk.com/smilies/smokin.gif

[Dictator]

Why are you so defensive, you shouldn't take this so personal. I'm not the one uploading pics of me in a mirror and posting it on a predominantly male forum, now that would truly be geek material. I think what you are trying to say is that I am an intelligent guy who's destined for success and I thank you. Those are very kind words. I appreciate it bro. :cheers:

I never said that their situations were the exact same. My point is that all of the players on this Laker "Big Four" are all extremely effective and each of them are top ten at their respective positions. The reason why people were expecting Lebron and Co. to win immediately was because they were three great players coming together. They are an extremely top heavy team. That's why people expected them to win.

Don't cling to this whole "in prime" argument like Kobe/Nash/Gasol/Howard aren't extremely effective and skilled players. They have 4 of the top 25-30 players in the league on their team. That's just as top heavy as the Heat and they all are extremely experienced and savvy.

I don't agree with the OP but I can see hypocrisy from a mile away. When big names who are still effective come together, expectations are going to be placed on them. Just like the 04 Laker team.

The argument is completely different.

Which is worst:

Losing in your prime while going to another team with 2 other superstars with no titles or FMVPS yet.......


or

Losing at the back end of your career with a great squad although you already have 5 titles, and 2 fmvp?

[RaininTwos]

I posted that pic 4 or 5 years ago, pretty cool the image is planted in your skull. As far as expectations go, sure if you wanna crown the Lakers, crown their fcking asses, I have no problem with it.
Complete shot in the dark, but thanks for confirming. Stop taking this so personal?

[RaininTwos]

The argument is completely different.

Which is worst:

Losing in your prime while going to another team with 2 other superstars with no titles or FMVPS yet.......


or

Losing at the back end of your career with a great squad although you already have 5 titles, and 2 fmvp?

That wasn't even the question. The first one is worse, we all know that but this was clearly about expectations, not the results.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Complete shot in the dark, but thanks for confirming. Stop taking this so personal?
:oldlol: sure thing buddy.

[RaininTwos]

ah....i've wasted enough time talking at you for one day.

time to listen to madonna!:lol

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

That wasn't even the question. The first one is worse, we all know that but this was clearly about expectations, not the results.
umm yeah, actually it was. you originally quoted me and that was what i was referring to.

[RaininTwos]

umm yeah, actually it was. you originally quoted me and that was what i was referring to.
True, I read that I completely misremembered.

Either way the point is ridiculous.

It's like comparing two different kinds of high mortality rate cancers, one might be more deadly but its still cancer.

Both were huge black marks that had to be made up for. If Kobe doesn't win it all or even get out of the conference he'll still be remembered as a great player but people will kill him here for it and rightfully so. He has all of the tools in order to win a championship and some.

He has two legit post threats, a HOF PG to distribute the ball, a decent wing defender who can shoot well for an 1/8 of a season(:roll: artest was so bad) and himself, the second best SG in the League.

Lebron's gaffe was worse, but he made up for it. He delivered. If Kobe doesn't he'll get some of the same backlash Bron got.

[lilgodfather1]

Players don't go down in all time rankings because of failures. Players can only go up, or get bumped down by greater/better players.

[The Iron Fist]

True, I read that I completely misremembered.

Either way the point is ridiculous.

It's like comparing two different kinds of high mortality rate cancers, one might be more deadly but its still cancer.

Both were huge black marks that had to be made up for. If Kobe doesn't win it all or even get out of the conference he'll still be remembered as a great player but people will kill him here for it and rightfully so. He has all of the tools in order to win a championship and some.

He has two legit post threats, a HOF PG to distribute the ball, a decent wing defender who can shoot well for an 1/8 of a season(:roll: artest was so bad) and himself, the second best SG in the League.

Lebron's gaffe was worse, but he made up for it. He delivered. If Kobe doesn't he'll get some of the same backlash Bron got.kobes already a five time champ though. Huge difference when comparing him to bronze. HUGE. The only backlash he'll get will be from those who hate him already.

[IamRAMBO24]

Players don't go down in all time rankings because of failures. Players can only go up, or get bumped down by greater/better players.

Had Pippen lead the Blazers and whatever slob team he was on to a championship after the Bulls, you can sure bet his ranking will be much higher.

Had Shaq never gotten injured and won multiple championships with the Heat, do you think he would be behind Kobe?

What about Garnett.

Please.

Failure is a strong indicator of whether or not a player should be in the top ten because no legacies are set in stone.

Legacies are built on discussions and arguments. This is why they have panels of guys debating on whether or not a player should be on the top ten.

Now imagine if Kobe cannot win with this team. What do you think the discussion will be?

[IamRAMBO24]

What do these guys have in common:

Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, Tom Sanders, KC Jones, Robert Horry, and Frank Ramsey?

They have more rings than Kobe.

Rings don't secure a place in the top ten. Leadership does. This is why the panel won't budge with Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Kareem as the top 5. All of them have proven they can lead a team to a championship.

Kobe's three peat was lead by Shaq. *FACT*

So technically he has only won 2 as top dog and will have the opportunity to win 3 or more if he plays his cards right.

Look I don't hate Kobe; all I'm saying is he has the potential to beat Jordan if he can lead this new team to multiple rings.

If not, he will squarely be ranked 6 with Lebron and future stars inching towards his slot.

[9erempiree]

What do these guys have in common:

Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, Tom Sanders, KC Jones, Robert Horry, and Frank Ramsey?

They have more rings than Kobe.

Rings don't secure a place in the top ten. Leadership does. This is why the panel won't budge with Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Kareem as the top 5. All of them have proven they can lead a team to a championship.

Kobe's three peat was lead by Shaq. *FACT*

So technically he has only won 2 as top dog and will have the opportunity to win 3 or more if he plays his cards right.

Look I don't hate Kobe; all I'm saying is he has the potential to beat Jordan if he can lead this new team to multiple rings.

If not, he will squarely be ranked 6 with Lebron and future stars inching towards his slot.

To say Kobe can't lead is quite laughable.

If 5 rings isn't leading then leaders are really overrated.

They should play Kobe ball.

[amfirst]

What do these guys have in common:

Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, Tom Sanders, KC Jones, Robert Horry, and Frank Ramsey?

They have more rings than Kobe.

Rings don't secure a place in the top ten. Leadership does. This is why the panel won't budge with Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Kareem as the top 5. All of them have proven they can lead a team to a championship.

Kobe's three peat was lead by Shaq. *FACT*

So technically he has only won 2 as top dog and will have the opportunity to win 3 or more if he plays his cards right.

Look I don't hate Kobe; all I'm saying is he has the potential to beat Jordan if he can lead this new team to multiple rings.

If not, he will squarely be ranked 6 with Lebron and future stars inching towards his slot.

Bottom line is that LeBron has more to lose. He is in his prime if he can't win again, he will never win again because he isn't going to get any better. My understanding is that players start to go downhill gradually after 27.

[IamRAMBO24]

Bottom line is that LeBron has more to lose. He is in his prime if he can't win again, he will never win again because he isn't going to get any better. My understanding is that players start to go downhill gradually after 27.

But Lebron has proven he is a leader. He can probably remain in the top ten with only 3 like Bird.

Don't forget, when all is said and done, nobody will give a sh*t if Kobe or Lebron are on a stacked team.

In fact, it even looks better in the panel discussion if they can lead a bunch of all-stars rather than a bunch of scrubs. This shows a high level of leadership. That's where the argument centers around.

Now if they can turn a bunch of scrubs into all-stars, that's a whole new ballgame, hence why Jordan is top dog.

[IamRAMBO24]

To say Kobe can't lead is quite laughable.

If 5 rings isn't leading then leaders are really overrated.

They should play Kobe ball.

The argument is still lingering whether or not Shaq is the true leader of the 3-peat. This is a cloud on Kobe's head so if he can't win with this new team as their leader, trust me, there will be no doubt everyone's mind Shaq was responsible for those 3 rings, not Kobe.

[9erempiree]

The argument is still lingering whether or not Shaq is the true leader of the 3-peat. This is a cloud on Kobe's head so if he can't win with this new team as their leader, trust me, there will be no doubt everyone's mind Shaq was responsible for those 3 rings, not Kobe.

Shaq was not the sole leader of those teams.

Why is it that everytime the 3peat Lakers were mentioned...it would be mentioned like this.......

"Shaq and Kobe's Lakers"

"Can role players step up"

They were always mentioned in the same breath but the other players were called "role players".

It was during this time the term "role players" were widely used when referring to the Lakers. It was always "Shaq and Kobe and company...."

[funnystuff]

Shaq was not the sole leader of those teams.

Why is it that everytime the 3peat Lakers were mentioned...it would be mentioned like this.......

"Shaq and Kobe's Lakers"

"Can role players step up"

They were always mentioned in the same breath but the other players were called "role players".

It was during this time the term "role players" were widely used when referring to the Lakers. It was always "Shaq and Kobe and company...."
He definitely was, and keep in mind that Lebron will never defer to a sidekick to anyone.

[IamRAMBO24]

Shaq was not the sole leader of those teams.

Why is it that everytime the 3peat Lakers were mentioned...it would be mentioned like this.......

"Shaq and Kobe's Lakers"

"Can role players step up"

They were always mentioned in the same breath but the other players were called "role players".

It was during this time the term "role players" were widely used when referring to the Lakers. It was always "Shaq and Kobe and company...."

It was also Jordan and Scottie .. look where Scottie ended up.

[IamRAMBO24]

He definitely was, and keep in mind that Lebron will never defer to a sidekick to anyone.

Lebron did defer to Wade in his first year, but this championship belongs to him.

If he wins 3 or more, his legacy will be strong enough to put him in the top 10 and challenge Kobe for that slot.

He did it as a leader; Kobe has in the past deferred to Shaq and is now looking to defer to Dwight.

[funnystuff]

Lebron did defer to Wade in his first year, but this championship belongs to him.

If he wins 3 or more, his legacy will be strong enough to put him in the top 10 and challenge Kobe for that slot.

He did it as a leader; Kobe has in the past deferred to Shaq and is now looking to defer to Dwight.
Once he gets as many FMVPs as Kobe he pretty much passes him. IMO.


And Lebron did not defer to Wade. No way in hell he was a 'sidekick' in 2011.

[IamRAMBO24]

Once he gets as many FMVPs as Kobe he pretty much passes him. IMO.


And Lebron did not defer to Wade. No way in hell he was a 'sidekick' in 2011.

He was. Wade passed him the torch at the start of the season.

This means the offense and defense goes through him. This is why leadership is so important.

[IamRAMBO24]

http://nbadraft.net/forum/if-kobe-cant-win-it-all-2013-then-he-should-not-be-top-10

scroll down and see the 'IamRAMBO24's post

:biggums:

Nice fake account to try and discredit me.

You know your argument is sound when other's are trying to make sh*t up to contradict your statements.

[Round Mound]

Top 10? Over Hakeem, Moses and Barkley?

:roll:

[IamRAMBO24]

Top 10? Over Hakeem, Moses and Barkley?

:roll:

Take this rubbish out of this thread. This is an intellectual conversation.

[Thethirdguy]

This is an intellectual conversation.
You just set yourself up so bad.

edit: I won't go back and quote you to make you look like a fool, but let me ask you this:
When was the last time you heard any of the all time greats legacies being questioned for how many rings they DIDN'T win? seriously. It's one thing to never get a ring, obviously that's going to be brought up but Kobe has 5 and he played a major part in every single one of them so don't go quoting the Robert Horrys. Not only that, but he's near retirement and he's not ring chasing or going out and guaranteeing rings. He played his whole career with one team and won 5 rings. He doesn't need to prove anything. He didn't join these guys, they joined him. The only way this at all tarnishes his legacy is if the Lakers fail miserably and all Kobe's fault which I don't see happening.
Get over it man, if Kobe single handedly ruins the Lakers chance at a ring this year then make another thread after it happens

[riseagainst]

Nice fake account to try and discredit me.

You know your argument is sound when other's are trying to make sh*t up to contradict your statements.

You think people have nothing better to do and go around spoofing people on internet forums? Only extremely bored people like you would probably think of that idea. Looks like Deuce exposed you. You copied someone else's post or you just have other accounts on other forums. Nothing to be ashamed of.

[riseagainst]

Stats don't matter when we talk about the most important attribute to becoming a LEGEND: LEADERSHIP.

Jordan, Bird, Magic will forever cement their legacies in the top ten based on this attribute alone and not merely the number of rings they have.

Kobe has not yet proven he is a true leader. Bring this new team to multiple championships and prove he is the leader.

He himself said this is his team. Prove it.

:eek:

But I think what Rambo's trying to say is: rings only count when you are the best player on your team. Everyone else has 0 rings because they deserve no credit at all. Makes sense to me. :confusedshrug:

lol......................

[IamRAMBO24]

You think people have nothing better to do and go around spoofing people on internet forums? Only extremely bored people like you would probably think of that idea. Looks like Deuce exposed you. You copied someone else's post or you just have other accounts on other forums. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Ok dumbsh*t.

How many post does this fake IamRambo account have on that forum? When was it created? Oh yea exactly the same time I made this thread.

So let me ask you this since you do not have the mental capacity to connect two simple dots together ...

Why the f*ck would I create a thread questioning Kobe's legitimacy on the top ten and then go to another completely different website and say the exact opposite thing?

Fake account.

F*ck you for being too stupid to figure it out and encouraging this type of behavior.

[IamRAMBO24]

:eek:

But I think what Rambo's trying to say is: rings only count when you are the best player on your team. Everyone else has 0 rings because they deserve no credit at all. Makes sense to me. :confusedshrug:

lol......................

Again.

Wrong.

It is so sad you spend so much time thinking about basketball but end being completely obliviously to the game as a whole. That's like getting a college degree and not knowing where you are going, what you are doing, and anything else for that matter. You need a new hobbie homie.

My point is .....

Nobody would ever rank Pippen as #1 but they will rank Jordan.

Why?

Figure that sh*t out for yourself.

[DirtySanchez]

You know what a clear sign that somebody is losing an argument.... They start typing f bombs and cursing.

[DirtySanchez]

Rambo24 has the best avy by the way

[IamRAMBO24]

You just set yourself up so bad.

edit: I won't go back and quote you to make you look like a fool, but let me ask you this:
When was the last time you heard any of the all time greats legacies being questioned for how many rings they DIDN'T win? seriously. It's one thing to never get a ring, obviously that's going to be brought up but Kobe has 5 and he played a major part in every single one of them so don't go quoting the Robert Horrys. Not only that, but he's near retirement and he's not ring chasing or going out and guaranteeing rings. He played his whole career with one team and won 5 rings. He doesn't need to prove anything. He didn't join these guys, they joined him. The only way this at all tarnishes his legacy is if the Lakers fail miserably and all Kobe's fault which I don't see happening.
Get over it man, if Kobe single handedly ruins the Lakers chance at a ring this year then make another thread after it happens

Again, like I said to all the Kobestans, you guys are doing him a disservice by coming up with all these bullsh*t excuses on why he should not win.

You act like Kobe all of sudden forgot to put his shoes on, ate rocks for breakfast, and went to the gym shirtless because he is too much of an old man to do anything.

That's why Kobe hates fanatical fans like you guys. If you don't believe me, watch the way he rolls his eyes when he sees some punk kid (you) screaming at the top of his lung like a girl asking for an autograph.

This is Kobe's team. If he wins, his legacy will improve, even going so far as surpassing Jordan perhaps. If he can't win anymore and rest solely on 5, we are looking at the 6th slot on the top ten and he's got some heated competition that can knock him off that 6th slot within a decade or so, hence why he won't remain top 10 for very long if he doesn't win more rings.

That's all I'm saying.

[IamRAMBO24]

You know what a clear sign that somebody is losing an argument.... They start typing f bombs and cursing.

I don't think there is one legitimate point in here I have not yet refuted. The problem is these nerds are too busy playing with their ding dongs to actually have a legitimate argument.

[IamRAMBO24]

And sorry for the F bombs.

Just pissed off someone would stoop so low to create a fake account to discredit me.

Kobestans absolutely have no class (yes even on the internet).

FACT.

[LakersReign]

You know what a clear sign that somebody is losing an argument.... They start typing f bombs and cursing.

He's just mad heated cuz nobody's buying into his hater nonsense, that's all:lol

[LEFT4DEAD]

He's just mad heated cuz nobody's buying into his hater nonsense, that's all:lol
Hmm I see, PTSD' signs are retreating since there is no writing the names in brackets. Fight it brah, thats right.

[IamRAMBO24]

Hmm I see, PTSD' signs are retreating since there is no writing the names in brackets. Fight it brah, thats right.

LOL.

Holy sh*t I literally laughed out loud in tears over that comment.

[LakersReign]

Hmm I see, PTSD' signs are retreating since there is no writing the names in brackets. Fight it brah, thats right.

You also said Kobe is equal to Moses Malone: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270443&page=5

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3931/a7a80841a80140609cfb861.png

Good luck with all that:sleeping



LOL.

Holy sh*t I literally laughed out loud in tears over that comment.

Yeah....I know....right?:oldlol:

What killed me, was how the idiot actually posted that Kobe was equal to Malone. Then when I asked him to explain it, he(left4dead) IMMMEDIATELY ran away like a scalded dog. Now he wants to come back up in here, acting like he has credibility. Pure comedy gold:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[IamRAMBO24]

You also said Kobe is equal to Moses Malone: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270443&page=5

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3931/a7a80841a80140609cfb861.png

Good luck with all that:sleeping




Yeah....I know....right?:oldlol:

What killed me, was how the idiot actually posted that Kobe was equal to Malone. Then when I asked him to explain it, he(left4dead) IMMMEDIATELY ran away like a scalded dog. Now he wants to come back up in here, acting like he has credibility. Pure comedy gold:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

He made a funny comment at your expense. I kind of like the guy. I wouldn't rank Malone above Kobe (far from it), but that is perfectably excusable based on the above comment, which I find incredibly accurate in your description.

[IamRAMBO24]

Everytime you call someone a Kobehater, you yourself have absolutely no credibility.

If you are a Kobed*cksucker (which you are), you have absolutely no grounds to call someone a Kobehater.

You are not in the position to do so because you have Kobe's pen*s so deeply lodged in your throat you are sneezing out cummshots.

You have no credibility either LakersFIEND. He might be wrong in his statement but everything that comes out of your mouth has nothing to do with reason or logic but just a sheer fascination with your cult leader.

He's not half as bad as you.

[LakersReign]

He made a funny comment at your expense. I kind of like the guy. I wouldn't rank Malone above Kobe (far from it), but that is perfectably excusable based on the above comment, which I find incredibly accurate in your description.

So...the clown(left4dead) posts some b.s. he can't back up, and a ret**d(rambo) like you(rambo) believes it anyway, even though he CAN'T prove anything? So...to break it down even further, you're(rambo) pretty much saying, you're(rambo) a brainless moron(rambo) who believes ANYTHING. Then he(rambo) has the nerve to actually sit there, and try to say other people don't have credibility. Keeping in mind, YOU'RE(rambo) the same dumba**(rambo) who just ADMITTED to believing anything. I'd really stop posting and shut the hell up if I were you, cuzz you're not doing yourself any favors saying ret**ded sh*t like that. Pure dumba**(rambo):facepalm

[LEFT4DEAD]

So...the clown(left4dead) posts some b.s. he can't back up, and a ret**d(rambo) like you(rambo) believes it anyway, even though he CAN'T prove anything? So...to break it down even further, you're(rambo) pretty much saying, you're(rambo) a brainless moron(rambo) who believes ANYTHING. I'd really stop posting and shut the hell up if I were you. Pure dumba**(rambo):facepalm
I cant back up my words haa? I will send an invitation to my old friend Matt (from our NBA forum back then) to confirm my claims. And than what would happen? You would call us both clowns. Go back in mental hospital you psycho before you kill somebody. PTSD can be a really serious issue.

And you are negating your own words with quoting my post. It says Kobe/Malone/Oscar interchangeable and you still keep saying that I said Malone is better than Kobe. :biggums:

[IamRAMBO24]

So...the clown(left4dead) posts some b.s. he can't back up, and a ret**d(rambo) like you(rambo) believes it anyway, even though he CAN'T prove anything? So...to break it down even further, you're(rambo) pretty much saying, you're(rambo) a brainless moron(rambo) who believes ANYTHING. I'd really stop posting and shut the hell up if I were you. Pure dumba**(rambo):facepalm

Here is a prime example of you taking something entirely out of context.

I hope the entire forum reads what you just did and remember how you pull this kind of bullsh*t over and over again.

You are just pathetic dude. Sad. You blatantly took a direct statement and turn it into something else.

I clearly said I do not support his statement but I liked how he pointed out your PTSD (which you have blatantly shown over and over again by writing out names in parenthesis).

I don't know why you do this sh*t; if you think it's cute, there are no girls around to impress; if you are trying to remember who you are talking to by writing out their name everytime you address them, then you simply have the attention span of a 2 year old. Either way, I feel sorry for you.

You're acting like a little child getting all pussied up whenever anyone talks about the Lakers.

Seriously, it's annoying and totally unnecessary. Real talk.

[LakersReign]

I cant back up my words haa? I will send an invitation to my old friend Matt (from our NBA forum back then) to confirm my claims. And than what would happen? You would call us both clowns. Go back in mental hospital you psycho before you kill somebody. PTSD can be a really serious issue.

And you are negating your own words with quoting my post. It says Kobe/Malone/Oscar interchangeable and you still keep saying that I said Malone is better than Kobe. :biggums:

Ok...since you're(left4dead) so desperate for me to play your ret**ded game, where you(left4dead) make sh*t up , then play off the burden of proof on somebody else. Even though you're(left4dead) the one, making the allegations, then...fine....let's play. But know this: I WILL beat you(left4dead) at your own game, and that's a promise:cheers:

https://www.google.co.vi/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=rob+flemming+captured+and+raped+in+Iraqi&oq=rob+flemming+captured+and+raped+in+Iraqi&gs_l=hp.3...1669.11343.0.17823.40.34.0.0.0.0.2058. 16840.2-6j13j7j0j2j0j2j1.34.0...0.0...1c.ZJTctNI474M&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=b0c7ad0f11b70867&biw=1024&bih=475

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6672/4b9362c6011c444abf46634.png

No such event EVER happened to any such person....whomever "rob flemming" is. I don't have PTSD, cuz I've NEVER been to Iraqi, nor have I EVER been in the military. And...my name IS NOT "rob flemming." So...now what b***h(left4dead)? You say otherwise, then prove it. Prove me wrong....I DARE YOU:D

left4dead on that one:http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r102/RedBlack_Attack/dudegettinghisheadbeatin.gif EXPOSED(left4dead)!!!!:roll:



(Now watch carefully as he(left4dead) runs away like a scalded dog(left4dead)....AGAIN, cuz he already knows he(left4dead) made the whole thing up. Just like I've been saying from jump)




Seriously, it's annoying and totally unnecessary. Real talk.


You(rambo) and your boyfriend left4dead, are BOTH completely full of sh*t. Seriously....real talk.

[kenny817]

Kobe stans can no longer hate on the Lebron parade for him being on a stacked team. The Lakers are easily the most stacked team in recent memory. In comparison, if this was the late 90s, they would have the best SG (Jordan), the best center (The Dream), and 2nd best PG (Stockton) on their team.

If Kobe can't win it all this year, I don't see how he can even be in the top 10. I know the argument will be "Oh he's got 5 rings." That is just a generic argument. Robert Horry has 8 rings and that does not reflect the SUBSTANCE of his real contributions on the court. Karl Malone is one of the greatest players I have ever seen but he has absolutely no rings.

Just real talk.

Kobe just aint got it if he can't pull this one off.


lulz

[LakersReign]

CALLED IT!!!!:lol
POSTED TODAY @450am:

(Now watch carefully as he(left4dead) runs away like a scalded dog(left4dead)....AGAIN, cuz he already knows he(left4dead) made the whole thing up. Just like I've been saying from jump)

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2529/68afb757d35f411c9287d1e.png

"Buh....buh....buh....buh....his name is rob flemming.....and...and...and...and....he's been in Iraq....and....and...and...and...he was captured and raped by terrorists....and....and....and....and....he now has PTSD cuz of it.And....and....and....and....and....I really believe that.":rolleyes:

Now when REAL PROOF is posted that N-O-N-E of that is even remotely true, he(left4dead) responds, by dipping out like a b***h(left4dead), as I predicted he(left4dead) would:oldlol:

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx150/cousin_e/OHDAMNLOL.gif

[King Crossover]

CALLED IT!!!!:lol
POSTED TODAY @450am:


http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2529/68afb757d35f411c9287d1e.png

"Buh....buh....buh....buh....his name is rob flemming.....and...and...and...and....he's been in Iraq....and....and...and...and...he was captured and raped by terrorists....and....and....and....and....he now has PTSD cuz of it.And....and....and....and....and....I really believe that.":rolleyes:

Now when REAL PROOF is posted that N-O-N-E of that is even remotely true, he(left4dead) responds, by dipping out like a b***h(left4dead), as I predicted he(left4dead) would:oldlol:

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx150/cousin_e/OHDAMNLOL.gif
dude you're a freaking loser

[LakersReign]

Mad as ****:roll:

[Bandito]

I'm the idiot? Ok let's sum up this entire thread.

1. A point was made: if Kobe cannot win anymore rings especially with this stacked team, his legacy will diminish.

2. All of a sudden, a pack of Kobe hyenas started flooding this thread expressing their deep conviction and love for their cult leader. Even LakersReign shed a tear as he types the letters 5-R-I-N-G-S.

3. The argument then centers around a bunch of excuses: first was age. If age was such a factor, then why was Kobe 1st all NBA and why was Nash running circles around some rookies and sophomores last season? It seems like age is an asset in this case rather than a negative.

4. Second was: Kobe has cement his legacy. Another stupid ass argument; no legacies are cement in stone. If Kobe is bringing in 5 rings to the top ten, he is going to get reamed in a decade or so when newer and better stars come along. Guys like Bird, Magic, Jordan, and Russell are gonna be there for a long time because both of their hands are covered in rings. Kobe only has one hand while the other one is holding his d*ck.

Which goes back to my main conclusion: Kobe still has a lot of work to do; the next 2-5 years or however long he chooses to play, will have a huge impact on whether or not he is a generational player. Right now, at best he will be top 10 for a decade or so and, at worse, he'll be knocked out within 5-7 years after retirement.
doesnt magic have 5 rings you idiot? and bird has like 3 if I remember correctly:biggums: . Do you actually follow the NBA or just try to hate on Kobe to prop on lebron? How old are you again?

[IamRAMBO24]

Just calling it like it is.

*bump

[Mr. Jabbar]

Just calling it like it is.

*bump

Kobe putting up MVP numbers in his 17th season @ age 34, not the smartest thread to bump really...

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe putting up MVP numbers in his 17th season @ age 34, not the smartest thread to bump really...

29 5 & 5 on 49% shooting at age 34 in his 17th season





















Hurts Legacy

[IamRAMBO24]

Kobe putting up MVP numbers in his 17th season @ age 34, not the smartest thread to bump really...

His leadership is being called into question.

*empty stats.

Even Iverson's worst season seems more legit than Kobe's right now.

[Kurosawa0]

If this team ultimately fails to win a ring it won't keep Kobe out of the top ten for me, but it will keep him safely behind Duncan. Duncan would be killing it next to Howard or Gasol.

[Mr. Jabbar]

His leadership is being called into question.

*empty stats.


by who? bigveto? derivative? you?

:lol

[IamRAMBO24]

by who? bigveto? derivative? you?

:lol

This team is way too stack for Kobe to fail. Even a Laker's fan like you would admit to this, hence your frustration.

[chazzy]

I've never understood the idea of a player going lower on an all time list without another player surpassing them.

[oh the horror]

:oldlol: OP stfu even if Kobe won you'd make threads about how "he's not top ten of all time because he needed a stacked team to win"



Wtf is up with the bottom feeders running the show here?

[oh the horror]

by who? bigveto? derivative? you?

:lol


Probably all the same damn guy

[Kurosawa0]

I've never understood the idea of a player going lower on an all time list without another player surpassing them.

I think it makes sense if you're counting active players. Their careers evolve and parts of their legacy become either additions or subtractions.

To me, Kobe is the third best guard ever and #8 all time. I have him behind MJ, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt and Duncan and in that order. I go back and forth between spots 5-8. Bird, Wilt, Duncan and Kobe are all kind of in the same tier to me. If Kobe does however end his last great run with a dysfunctional failure, then yeah, it does effect how I rank him without say, LeBron jumping into the top 10.

He doesn't slide so much as his feet get stuck in cement to me.

[Micku]

Kobe is playing very well as a 34 year old guy on his 17th season. I didn't expect him to play this well.

With that said, it is shocking that the Lakers are doing this bad, but I'm sure they'll do better later on this season. I rather rate players in tiers than in actual numbers, but I guess numbers are more fun to debate about even though I don't think it's all that accurate.

[IamRAMBO24]

*Bump again for making a legit point.

[G-Funk]

hypocrisy at its finest. Lebron can't win with a dominant big like Shaq

[MisterAmazing]

hypocrisy at its finest. Lebron can't win with a dominant big like Shaq

negged. wish trolls could come up with good material again.

[sc19]

Kobe failed it seems.

[G-Funk]

negged. wish trolls could come up with good material again.


Negged right back!

[SavageMode]

:roll:

[Mr. Jabbar]

what has become of this site :facepalm

[AirBonner]

Op right on the money :lol

[Noyze]

Amazing bump!!:banana: :banana:

[JT123]

And thus Kobe is cemented at #12. And there is NOTHING wrong with that. I just wish the rest of my fellow Kobe fans would stop comparing him to superior players like Lebron and instead to players in his class.
Dirk and Karl Malone are legit arguments, not top 3 players all time. :confusedshrug:

[Screamin A Smit]

:oldlol:
:oldlol:

[Annyong!]

Kobe's legacy is set already as a top 12 player of all-time.

Perfect prediction :applause:

[ImKobe]

Howard back and shoulder injury
Gasol leg injury
Artest knee injury
Kobe ankle and ACL injury
Nash injured 2nd game of the season

Kobe 27/6/6 46%FG in his 17th season, somehow he was the reason the Lakers had no success, not like he led a team of d-leaguers with D'Antoni as the coach to the POs in the West :kobe:

[riseagainst]

embarrassing.... he honestly isn't even top 20 if we just talk about player impact.