Can centers be considered clutch [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

jlauber

08-25-2012, 02:44 PM

I could easily cherry-pick and post Wilt's top-10+ playoff games...

Games of 56-35, 53-22, 50-35, 50-17, 46-34, 46-32, 46-23, 45-27, 42-37, 42-29, 41-34, 40-25, 39-30, 38-26 etc.

Instead, however, here were EVERY ONE of his 35 "must-win" and "series clinching" post-season games...

Ok, here are the known numbers in Wilt's "must-win" playoff games (elimination games), and clinching game performances (either deciding winning or losing games), of BOTH Chamberlain, and his starting opposing centers in those games.

1. Game three of a best-of-three series in the first round of the 59-60 playoffs against Syracuse, a 132-112 win. Wilt with 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds. His opposing center, Red Kerr, who was a multiple all-star in his career, had 7 points.

2. Game five of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, a 128-107 win. Chamberlain had 50 points, on 22-42 shooting, with 35 rebounds. His opposing center, Russell, had 22 points and 27 rebounds.

3. Game six of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, in a 119-117 loss. Wilt had a 26-24 game, while Russell had a 25-25 game.

4. Game three of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 60-61 playoffs , and against Syracuse, in a 106-103 loss. Chamberlain with 33 points, while his opposing center, the 7-3 Swede Halbrook, scored 6 points.

5. Game five of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 61-62 playoffs, against Syracuse, in a 121-104 win. Chamberlain had 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. Kerr had 20 points in the loss.

6. Game six of the 61-62 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 109-99 win. Wilt with 32 points and 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points and 22 rebounds in the loss.

7. Game seven of the 61-62 ECF's, against Boston, in a 109-107 loss. Wilt with 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the win.

8. Game seven of the 63-64 WCF's, and against St. Louis, in a 105-95 win. Wilt with 39 points, 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty, who would go on to become a multiple all-star, had 10 points in the loss.

9. Game five of the 63-64 Finals, and against Boston, in a 105-99 loss. Chamberlain with 30 points and 27 rebounds. Russell had 14 points and 26 points in the win.

10. Game four of a best-of-five series in the 64-65 first round of the playoffs against Cincinnati, a 119-112 win. Chamberlain with 38 points. His opposing center, multiple all-star (and HOFer) Wayne Embry had 7 points in the loss.

11. Game six of the 64-65 ECF's, against Boston, a 112-106 win. Chamberlain with a 30-26 game. Russell with a 22-21 game in the loss.

12. Game seven of the 64-65 ECF's, and against Boston, a 110-109 loss. Wilt with 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds. Russell had 15 points, on 7-16 shooting, with 29 rebounds in the win.

13. Game five of a best-of-seven series, in the 65-66 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 120-112 loss. Wilt had 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 18 points and 31 rebounds in the win.

14. Game four of a best-of-five series, in the first round of the 66-67 playoffs, and against Cincinnati, a 112-94 win. Wilt with 18 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 27 rebounds and 9 assists. His opposing center, Connie Dierking, had 8 points, on 4-14 shooting, with 4 rebounds in the loss.

15. Game five of the 66-67 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 140-116 win. Chamberlain with 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and 7 blocks. Russell had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and 7 assists in the loss.

16. Game six of the 66-67 Finals, and against San Francisco, in a 125-122 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 8-13 shooting, with 23 rebounds. His oppsoing center, HOFer Nate Thurmond, had 12 points, on 4-13 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the loss.

17. Game six of the first round of the 67-68 playoffs, against NY, in a 113-97 win. Wilt had 25 points, and 27 rebounds. His opposing center, HOFer Walt Bellamy, had 19 points in the loss.

18. Game seven of the 67-68 ECF's, against Boston, in a 100-96 loss. Wilt with 14 points, on 4-9 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 12 points and 26 rebounds in the win.

19. Game six of the first round of the 68-69 playoffs, against San Francisco, in a 118-78 win. Wilt with 11 points on 5/9 FG, 25 rebounds and 1 assist. Thurmond had 8 points in the loss.

20. Game four of the 68-69 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Chamberlain with 16 points on 5/11 FG, 29 rebounds and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty had 30 points in the loss.

21. Game seven of the 68-69 Finals, against Boston, in a 108-106 loss. Chamberlain had 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Russell had 6 points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds in the win.

22. Game five of a best-of-seven series (the Lakers were down 3-1 going into the game) in the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, and against Phoenix, a 138-121 win. Wilt with 36 points on 12/20 FG 14 rebounds and 3 assists. His opposing center, Neal Walk, had 18 points in the loss.

23. Game six of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, in a 104-93 win. Wilt with 12 points on 4/11 FG, 26 rebounds, 11 assists and 12 blocks (unofficial quad). Jim Fox started that game for Phoenix, and had 13 points in the loss.

24. Game seven of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, and in a 129-94 win, which capped a 4-3 series win after falling behind 3-1 in the series. Wilt with 30 points on 11/18 FG, 27 rebounds, 6 assists and 11 blocks. Fox had 7 points in the loss.

25. Game four of the 69-70 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Wilt with 11 points on 5/10 FG, 21 rebounds and 10 blocks. Bellamy had 19 points in the loss.

26. Game six of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 135-113 win. Wilt with 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Nate Bowman had 18 points, on 9-15 shooting, with 8 rebounds in the loss.

27. Game seven of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 113-99 loss. Wilt with 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds. HOFer Willis Reed had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds in the win.

28. Game seven of the first round of the 70-71 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 109-98 win. Wilt with 25 points on 7/12 FG,18 rebounds and 9 assists. 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle had 4 points for the Bulls in the loss.

29. Game five of the 70-71 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 116-94 loss. Wilt had 23 points, on 10-21 shooting, with 12 rebounds, 6 blocks (5 of them on Alcindor/Kareem.) Kareem had 20 points, on 7-23 shooting, with 15 rebounds, and 3 blocks in the win. Incidently, Wilt received a standing ovation when he left the game late...and the game was played in Milwaukee.

30. Game four of the 71-72 first round of the playoffs, against Chicago, in a 108-97 sweeping win. Wilt had 8 points on 4/6, 31 rebounds and 8 assists. Clifford Ray had 20 points in the loss.

31. Game six of the 71-72 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 104-100 win. Chamberlain with 20 points, on 8-12 shooting, with 24 rebounds, and 9 blocks (six against Kareem.) Kareem had 37 points, on 16-37 shooting, with 25 rebounds in the loss.

32. Game five of the 71-72 Finals, against NY, in a 114-100 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocks. HOFer Jerry Lucas had 14 points, on 5-14 shooting, with 9 rebounds in the loss.

33. Game seven of the first round of the 72-73 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 95-92 win. Wilt with 21 points on 10/17 FG, 28 rebounds, 4 asissts and 8 blocks. His opposing center, Clifford Ray, had 4 points.

The article about this series sad that Wilt blocked Chicago from playoffs after blocking 49 shots in 7 games.

34. Game five of the 72-73 WCF's, and against Golden St., in a 128-118 win. Wilt with 5 points on 2/2 FG, 22 rebounds, 7 assists. Thurmond had 9 points on 2/9 FG, 18 or 15 rebounds and 5 assists in 32 minutes in the loss.

35. Game five of the 72-73 Finals, against NY, in a 102-93 loss. Wilt with 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Willis Reed had 18 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 12 rebounds.

That was it. 35 "must-win" elimination and/or clinching post-season games. Overall, Wilt's team's went 24-11 in those games, as well.

And while you will notice many of his HUGE games in those "must-win" situations, you will also see just how dominant he was against his OPPOSING centers in them, as well. For instance, he faced Kareem in their two "series clinching games", and outshot him .545 (18-33) to .383 (23-60.) There were even games in which he was outscoring his opposing center by margins as high as 53-7!

no pun intended

08-25-2012, 02:45 PM

If you count Tim Duncan as one, then yes.

millwad

08-25-2012, 02:52 PM

Wilt is the most clutch ever because I love to cherry pick stats.

While you're at it, remind us about how clutch Wilt was in the finals at the charity stripe.

Wilt in game 7 of the '69 finals went 4 of 13 at the FT-line.... in a game his team lost with 2 points.
And in game 4 of that series his team lost with 1 point, in that game Wilt only made 2 out of 11 FT's..

Sure, he had his clutch moments but a guy who looooooses out on a ring due choking from the FT-line has no case as the most clutch center ever, sorry, but this is the truth.

And the choking in game 7 f the '69 finals wasn't the only choking from the FT-line in his playoff career.

All respect to Wilt and he had an amazing career and many of his qualities are all-time great one's, but most clutch center ever? NEVER.

CarlosBoozer

08-25-2012, 02:56 PM

If you count Tim Duncan as one, then yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trdsKp94Io0
:bowdown:

millwad

08-25-2012, 03:03 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trdsKp94Io0
:bowdown:

I love plays where centers decide the games at the end, just beautiful.

jlauber

08-25-2012, 03:03 PM

While you're at it, remind us about how clutch Wilt was in the finals at the charity stripe.

Wilt in game 7 of the '69 finals went 4 of 13 at the FT-line.... in a game his team lost with 2 points.
And in game 4 of that series his team lost with 1 point, in that game Wilt only made 2 out of 11 FT's..

Sure, he had his clutch moments but a guy who looooooses out on a ring due choking from the FT-line has no case as the most clutch center ever, sorry, but this is the truth.

And the choking in game 7 f the '69 finals wasn't the only choking from the FT-line in his playoff career.

All respect to Wilt and he had an amazing career and many of his qualities are all-time great one's, but most clutch center ever? NEVER.

In that game seven, 4-13 performance from the line, he shot 7-8 from the field (.875), all while oustcoring his OPPOSING CENTER, Russell, 18-6, and outshooting him from the field, 7-8 tp 2-7, and OUTSCORING him from the line, 4-13 to 2-4.

As for that game four, one point loss, yes, ONE game (and BAYLOR shot 2-14 from the field, and 1-6 from the LINE in that game.)

I have said it before, and as you KNOW, Chamberlain's IMPACT at the line FAR exceeded his poor FT shooting. In his 35 Finals, games, his TEAM outshot the opposing team from the line, by a 26-6-3 margin. Hell, in one game in which Chamberlain shot 2-17 from the line, his team OUTSCORED the opposing team from the LINE by a 41-22 margin.

Chamberlain was getting entire TEAM's in foul trouble. And his TEAMMATES benefitted DRAMTICALLY because of it.

How about this example? Wilt's 68-69 Lakers LED the NBA in FTAs, and in the post-season, they ran away with the most FTAs.

Wilt was injured early on in the '70 season, and the Lakers plummetted all the way down to 12th, in a 14 team league. BUT, Wilt came back (miraculously) for the post-season, and his Lakers RAN AWAY with most FTAs (200 more than the next best team.)

Even his biggest weakness was a STRENGTH overall.

tmacattack33

08-25-2012, 03:04 PM

Of course they can be.

The whole FT thing only comes into play when your team is winning by a few points and there's less than 35 seconds left in the game.

If it's a tie game, no one is going to hack-a-shack you.

And if you're losing by 1 or 2, same deal...no one would hack-a-shack you.

A clutch game is when the scoring margin is +2, +1, 0 (tied), -1, -2.

So, a center can be used in 3 out of 5 of those situations.

millwad

08-25-2012, 03:12 PM

In that game seven, 4-13 performance from the line, he shot 7-8 from the field (.875), all while oustcoring his OPPOSING CENTER, Russell, 18-6, and outshooting him from the field, 7-8 tp 2-7, and OUTSCORING him from the line, 4-13 to 2-4.

I don't care who he outscored, he had huge choking job from the FT-line in that game. One of the worst choking jobs of all-time.

As for that game four, one point loss, yes, ONE game (and BAYLOR shot 2-14 from the field, and 1-6 from the LINE in that game.)

So what? Wilt still CHOKED big time and just because Baylor was shit in that game doesn't make Wilt's huge meltdown at the FT-line any better or as an excuse. Especially not when choked once again in game 7..

And especially not when Wilt in that game only scored 8 points. He missed more FT's than what he scored points and you try to blame it on someone else.. :facepalm

I have said it before, and as you KNOW, Chamberlain's IMPACT at the line FAR exceeded his poor FT shooting. In his 35 Finals, games, his TEAM outshot the opposing team from the line, by a 26-6-3 margin. Hell, in one game in which Chamberlain shot 2-17 from the line, his team OUTSCORED the opposing team from the LINE by a 41-22 margin.

Irrelevant. And what's your point? Is Wilt's teammates making 39 FT's in a game where Wilt makes 2 out of 17 something that makes Wilt even greater or more clutch?

Chamberlain was getting entire TEAM's in foul trouble. And his TEAMMATES benefitted DRAMTICALLY because of it.

Still irrelevant, it's about being clutch and Wilt CHOKED too many times from the FT-line to be called the most clutch center ever.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
How about this example? Wilt's 68-69 Lakers LED the NBA in FTAs, and in the post-season, they ran away with the most FTAs.

And in the same season Wilt lost a title due horrible FT-shooting, what's your point?

Wilt was injured early on in the '70 season, and the Lakers plummetted all the way down to 12th, in a 14 team league. BUT, Wilt came back (miraculously) for the post-season, and his Lakers RAN AWAY with most FTAs (200 more than the next best team.)

Even his biggest weakness was a STRENGTH overall.

It's not a strength when you miss out on a ring due the fact that you can't shoot FT's.. :facepalm

And it's still not about free throw attempts, it's about how many you make and Wilt is one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time.

Wilt has no case as the most clutch ever, why do you always have to cherry pick stats just to hype up Wilt. The answer on every question in not Wilt.

Wilt's biggest weakness was a huge weakness and NO strength, and it cost him one ring.

RRR3

08-25-2012, 03:17 PM

Hakeem shot 52.6% from the line the first two games of the 1986 NBA finals, and the Celtics went up 2-0 on the Rockets. Maybe if he hadn't choked at the line, he'd have 3 rings:lol

/Millwad logic

millwad

08-25-2012, 03:22 PM

Hakeem shot 52.6% from the line the first two games of the 1986 NBA finals, and the Celtics went up 2-0 on the Rockets. Maybe if he hadn't choked at the line, he'd have 3 rings:lol

/Millwad logic

Exactly, you make a comparison between Olajuwon's 5-9 FT-shooting in game 1 in '86 finals in a game they lost with 12 points and him missing 5 FT's in game 2 which the Rockets lost with 22 points.. :facepalm

I know you're stupid but I didn't know you were this stupid, even that you tried to make me look stupid with that horrible comparison makes you even more stupid. :D

RRR3

08-25-2012, 03:24 PM

Exactly, you make a comparison between Olajuwon's 5-9 FT-shooting in game 1 in '86 finals in a game they lost with 12 points and him missing 5 FT's in game 2 which the Rockets lost with 22 points.. :facepalm
Game 4, Rockets lose by 3 points. Hakeem shoots 8-21:lol
In game 7 Hakeem steps up and shoots 40% :bowdown:

Clutch :lol

Legends66NBA7

08-25-2012, 03:27 PM

And don't give me Russell cuz he won 11 rings. Dude overrated and played in a shitty era

So what's the point if were just going dock an era for being "shitty" ?

And no, Russell isn't clutch because of 11 rings alone (really reading that out loud... *sigh*), he was 10-0 in Game 7's and averaged more than his career averages in elimination games and Game 7's too.

See for yourself:

http://www.game7.com/bill_russell.php

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/columns/story?columnist=shouler_ken&id=2453844

Pointguard

08-25-2012, 03:30 PM

Game 4, Rockets lose by 3 points. Hakeem shoots 8-21:lol
In game 7 Hakeem steps up and shoots 40% :bowdown:

Clutch :lol

Advantage Wilt.

Umad101

08-25-2012, 03:33 PM

So what's the point if were just going dock an era for being "shitty" ?

And no, Russell isn't clutch because of 11 rings alone (really reading that out loud... *sigh*), he was 10-0 in Game 7's and averaged more than his career averages in elimination games and Game 7's too.

See for yourself:

http://www.game7.com/bill_russell.php

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/columns/story?columnist=shouler_ken&id=2453844
Shitty era, inflated stats, don't care

Dude shot 44% for a center that pathetic

millwad

08-25-2012, 03:33 PM

Game 4, Rockets lose by 3 points. Hakeem shoots 8-21:lol
In game 7 Hakeem steps up and shoots 40% :bowdown:

Clutch :lol

There was no game 7, you retard.

And ohhhhh my god, 2nd pro year pro Olajuwon had a bad shooting night against the greatest team of all-time!

Legends66NBA7

08-25-2012, 03:33 PM

Infact, people can have these centers in the Top 5, and I would probably agree:

Bill Russell - See my above post. In fact, he lost 1 elimination game, while healthy, in his entire High School, College, and Pro career.

Wilt Chamberlain - Don't mind the "choking" claims; he is arguably the greatest elimination game player ever and is part of the 2 of the greatest teams of all-time as the best player).

Kareem Abdul Jabbar - He had game winner's with his sky hook and was a part of some great teams that required him to take big 4th quarter shots

Hakeem Olajuwon - Won titles with the least amount of help. His 94-95 titles were coined clutch city for a reason, as the dream was a huge part of it.

I've got leave soon, so I'll get back to some more centers. By the way, I'm not saying all of them should be there, but you can make the argument.

Freedom Kid7

08-25-2012, 03:34 PM

I barely see anyone put them in their top 5, mostly permitter players.

I know their limited scoring the ball in crutch time and most suck at the free throw line. But do u have any center in ur top 5

And don't give me Russell cuz he won 11 rings. Dude overrated and played in a shitty era
:facepalm
Russell will always come to mind regarding clutchness.

RRR3

08-25-2012, 03:34 PM

There was no game 7, you retard.

And ohhhhh my god, 2nd pro year pro Olajuwon had a bad shooting night against the greatest team of all-time!
I meant game 6, sorry. Funny how you get mad when I cherrypick and don't use context when you do the same to Jlauber:confusedshrug:

millwad

08-25-2012, 03:37 PM

I meant game 6, sorry. Funny how you get mad when I cherrypick and don't use context when you do the same to Jlauber:confusedshrug:

I don't get mad, but someone talking about a game 7 who never existed is not even worth to reply to..

And I use context and Wilt's choking jobs from the FT-line are among the greatest choking jobs in league history. Hakeem only making 40% against the greatest team of all-time in a game he lost while being in his 2nd year and while he was guarded by Parish, Walton and Mchale... not so much..

Legends66NBA7

08-25-2012, 03:39 PM

don't care

If you don't care, then don't bother making a thread about it.

Bill's name will always come up.

Dude shot 44% for a center that pathetic

Who's taking about his career ?

Were talking about clutch, right ? Or you don't care ?

If it matters, he shoots over 52%fg in elimination games.

RRR3

08-25-2012, 03:39 PM

I don't get mad, but someone talking about a game 7 who never existed is not even worth to reply to..

And I use context and Wilt's choking jobs from the FT-line are among the greatest choking jobs in league history. Hakeem only making 40% against the greatest team of all-time in a game he lost while being in his 2nd year and while he was guarded by Parish, Walton and Mchale... not so much..
What part of Wilt being a HORRIBLE free throw shooter IN GENERAL don't you get? :confusedshrug: Wilt should never have been counted on to hit clutch FT's he was a garbage FT shooter. That's not choking, that's just being shit at FT shooting.

Legends66NBA7

08-25-2012, 03:43 PM

That's not choking, that's just being shit at FT shooting.

You can't be serious.

RRR3

08-25-2012, 03:44 PM

You can't be serious.
:facepalm I thought you're the one who's always saying Wilt wasn't a choker?:confusedshrug:

Legends66NBA7

08-25-2012, 03:47 PM

I thought you're the one who's always saying Wilt wasn't a choker?

Pop the quote I said that, please.

I said he's great elimination game player. I never said he didn't have his own chokes though.... I said every great player does.

Wilt's choking is over blown though.

Droid101

08-25-2012, 03:48 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trdsKp94Io0
:bowdown:
What a terrible shot? You want a career 20% three point shooter taking that shot if you're the Suns.

RRR3

08-25-2012, 03:48 PM

Pop the quote I said that, please.

I said he's great elimination game player. I never said he didn't have his own chokes though.... I said every great player does.

Wilt's choking is over blown though.
Okay fine. Don't single out my posts and ignore Millwad's insane anti-Wilt nonsense, then.

millwad

08-25-2012, 03:57 PM

Okay fine. Don't single out my posts and ignore Millwad's insane anti-Wilt nonsense, then.

It's not insane anti-Wilt "nonsense", a guy who lost a ring due horrible FT-shooting can't be considered one of the most clutch ever.

And I still find it funny, anytime I'm in a discussion with Jlauber you're the first one to have his nuts in your mouth and the same with Godzuki.

You've never called out Jlauber for some of his many crazy biased and misinforming posts and still you're here calling me out for calling Wilt for mentioning Wilt's horrible FT-shooting..

What's your problem kid, do you love Jlauber and Godzuki?

RRR3

08-25-2012, 03:59 PM

It's not insane anti-Wilt "nonsense", a guy who lost a ring due horrible FT-shooting can't be considered one of the most clutch ever.

And I still find it funny, anytime I'm in a discussion with Jlauber you're the first one to have his nuts in your mouth and the same with Godzuki.

You've never called out Jlauber for some of his many crazy biased and misinforming posts and still you're here calling me out for calling Wilt for mentioning Wilt's horrible FT-shooting..

What's your problem kid, do you love Jlauber and Godzuki?
Ad hominem attacks, typical millwad:applause:
Never mind the fact that you purposefully push JL's buttons:rolleyes:

millwad

08-25-2012, 03:59 PM

Okay fine. Don't single out my posts and ignore Millwad's insane anti-Wilt nonsense, then.

It's not insane to mention the fact that his horrible FT-shooting cost him one ring in '69, and as soon as you see that Jlauber is dumbfounded you're here to protect a 57 year old man.

And like that wasn't enough you write a shitty post to "own" me while you can't even get the games right and make up a game 7?

Get a life, what is this, like the 10th thread this month you've joined just to "own" me?

RRR3

08-25-2012, 04:00 PM

It's not insane to mention the fact that his horrible FT-shooting cost him one ring in '69, and as soon as you see that Jlauber is dumbfounded you're here to protect a 57 year old man.

And like that wasn't enough you write a shitty post to "own" me while you can't even get the games right and make up a game 7?

Get a life, what is this, like the 10th thread this month you've joined just to "own" me?
LOL when did I say I "owned" you, I was clearly trolling to give you a taste of your own medicine, sorry you couldn't handle it.

millwad

08-25-2012, 04:01 PM

Ad hominem attacks, typical millwad:applause:
Never mind the fact that you purposefully push JL's buttons:rolleyes:

I made a great point which is really relevant, while he posted a bunch of cherry picked stats as proof for his clutchness, he didn't mention Wilt's horrible FT-shooting games from the FT-line which cost him a ring.

I can't care less that a grown man gets butthurt over true facts.

RRR3

08-25-2012, 04:02 PM

I made a great point which is really relevant, while he posted a bunch of cherry picked stats as proof for his clutchness, he didn't mention Wilt's horrible FT-shooting games from the FT-line which cost him a ring.

I can't care less that a grown man gets butthurt over true facts.
Just ignore JL then:confusedshrug:

millwad

08-25-2012, 04:03 PM

LOL when did I say I "owned" you, I was clearly trolling to give you a taste of your own medicine, sorry you couldn't handle it.

My own medicine?

I made a valid point, you wrote a shitty post about a game that never existed just because you love to support Jlauber in every thread. What's your fetisch for him anyway?

RRR3

08-25-2012, 04:05 PM

My own medicine?

I made a valid point, you wrote a shitty post about a game that never existed just because you love to support Jlauber in every thread. What's your fetisch for him anyway?
:kobe: 99% of your posts are in response to something JL said.

millwad

08-25-2012, 04:05 PM

Just ignore JL then:confusedshrug:

Just ignore joining every thread to make a dick ride while trying to "get" me.. :facepalm

I make valid points, you just ride his dick for some reason, you're basically stalking me. How many times have you followed me the last month on ISH really?

millwad

08-25-2012, 04:07 PM

:kobe: 99% of your posts are in response to something JL said.

Pure nonsense, you're not even coming with anything in this thread. You just ride Jlauber as usual.

Get a life.

swi7ch

08-25-2012, 04:26 PM

Hakeem is a C and is clutch.

WeGetRing2012

08-25-2012, 04:35 PM

Yup last year Bynum had some clutch plays.

And if you consider Gasol when he was playing at C at the end games during the 09 & 10 runs he had some clutch plays. Their impact defensively & their rebounding can be game changing.

Hands of Iron

08-25-2012, 05:02 PM

98-03 Shaq wasn't too bad in elimination games:

38/7/1 58.3% fg
36/14/1 52.2% fg
32/18/4 62.5% fg
18/9/5 55.6% fg
41/17/1 56.0% fg
35/13/2 48.0% fg
31/10/3 61.9% fg

franchiez

08-25-2012, 05:17 PM

Not many clutch centers in the league if ANY, at least today.

jlauber

08-25-2012, 05:44 PM

I don't care who he outscored, he had huge choking job from the FT-line in that game. One of the worst choking jobs of all-time.

So what? Wilt still CHOKED big time and just because Baylor was shit in that game doesn't make Wilt's huge meltdown at the FT-line any better or as an excuse. Especially not when choked once again in game 7..

And especially not when Wilt in that game only scored 8 points. He missed more FT's than what he scored points and you try to blame it on someone else.. :facepalm

Irrelevant. And what's your point? Is Wilt's teammates making 39 FT's in a game where Wilt makes 2 out of 17 something that makes Wilt even greater or more clutch?

[QUOTE=jlauber]
Chamberlain was getting entire TEAM's in foul trouble. And his TEAMMATES benefitted DRAMTICALLY because of it.

Still irrelevant, it's about being clutch and Wilt CHOKED too many times from the FT-line to be called the most clutch center ever.

It's not a strength when you miss out on a ring due the fact that you can't shoot FT's.. :facepalm

And it's still not about free throw attempts, it's about how many you make and Wilt is one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time.

Wilt has no case as the most clutch ever, why do you always have to cherry pick stats just to hype up Wilt. The answer on every question in not Wilt.

Wilt's biggest weakness was a huge weakness and NO strength, and it cost him one ring.

And Hakeem was MUCH WORSE from the field in his THREE Finals. He shot .500, .483 (and was outshot by an unfathomable .595 to .483 margin), and .479. How about Wilt in his SIX Finals? .517 (and he POUNDED Russell in that series by a .517 to .386 margin), .525, .534 (again, holding Russell to a .396 FG%), .560 (and outshooting Thurmond, in Nate's greatest season by a .560 to .343 margin) .600 (and clearly the FMVP), and then a seven game series of .625 (to go along with 23.2 ppg and 24.1 rpg.)

BTW, in Wilt's SIX Finals, the NBA post-season FG% was .420, .424, .431, .455, .446, and .451. How about Hakeem's post-season NBA in his three Finals? .489 (and Hakeem shot .479 that Finals), .439 (and Hakeem shot .500), and .460 (and Hakeem shot .483.) Wilt was outshooting the post-season league average by margins of .517 to .420, .579 to .424, .534 to .431, .625 to .455, .600 to .446, and .525 to .451.

And how about shooting in game seven of the Finals? In his ONE game seven, Hakeem shot 10-25, or 40%. In Wilt's two game seven's of the Finals, he shot a combined 17-24, or .709. Oh, and in those two games, his starting opposing centers shot a combined 4-12 (.333.)

And I get sick-and-tired of what Wilt's scoring average was in his two title seasons. First of all, in the first two playoff games of his '67 playoff run (the greatest in NBA history BTW), he scored a SIXER playoff high that season of 41 points, and then followed it the very next game with a 37 point performance (on 16-24 shooting.) In the BIGGEST playoff games that season, he was CLEARLY Philly's BEST scorer. In the clinching game five win over the eight-time defending champion Celtics, Greer scored 32 points, but on 12-28 shooting. Wilt scored 29, 22 of which came in tyyhe first half when the game was still close, and on 10-16 shooting. Then, in the clinching game six win over the Warriors in the Finals, Wilt outscored Thurmond, 24-12, while outshooting him, 8-13 to 4-13. How about Greer? 15 points on 5-16 shooting. Overall, Chamberlain averaged 21.7 ppg in the playoffs, to go along with 29.1 rpg, 9.2 apg, and on .579 shooting. All while CRUSHING Dierking, Russell, and Thurmond. Greer averaged 27 ppg on .429 shooting.

And in the '72 title run, Chamberlain averaged 19.4 ppg, 23.2 rpg, and on .600 in the Finals. And in the clinching game five win, all he did was score 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, grab 29 rebounds (the ENTIRE Knick team had 39 BTW) and block 10 shots (all while playing with a BROKEN wrist, too.)

And how about Hakeem's rebounding and FG%'s in his three Finals? Once again, he shot .479 in '86, which was good enough for FIFTH best in that series (or SIXTH best if you want to count Walton's .621 off the bench...and against Hakeem BTW.) Hell, his TEAMMATE, Rodney McCray shot a team-leading .588.

In the '94 Finals, Hakeem shot a Finals' high .500, which was second behind his TEAMMATE, Otis Thorpe, who shot .529. BTW, Thorpe also LED the Rockets in the entire post-season, at .572.

And how about the '95 Finals? While Hakeem was mis-firing to the tune of .483, Shaq was shooting an incredible .595 against him. Here again, Hakeem was only the FIFTH best shooter in that series. And once again, a TEAMMATE outshot him, and by a considerable margin. Mario Ellie scored 16.3 ppg on, get this... .629 shooting (including .571 from the arc.)

And rebounding? In the '94 Finals, Hakeem was not only badly outrebounded by Knicks center Patrick Ewing, 12.4 to 9.1 rpg, he was only the FOURTH best rebounder in that series, behind TEAMMATE Otis Thorpe, and Knick PF Charles Oakley.

How about the '95 Finals? THIRD best rebounder behind Shaq and Horace Grant. And as for this perception that Hakeem didn't have help in his title runs? How about Ellie's 16.3 ppg on .629 shooting; Horry's 17.8 ppg and 10 rpg; and Drexler's 21.5 ppg and 9.5 rpg?

Now, in Wilt's SIX Finals, he was NEVER outrebounded. Hell, he was seldom outrebounded in single GAMES. Furthermore, find me a Finals in which Wilt had a teammate shoot .588 or that .629 mark. You won't. In fact, I couldn't find a Finals in which any of Wilt's teammates, playing significant minutes, even shot .500. And in those Six Finals series, I could only find one series, his LAST, in which he did not lead both teams in FG%. He shot .525, while Knick Dick Barnett shot .531. In the rest of Wilt's FIVE other Finals, he was MILES ahead of the next best shooter.

millwad

08-25-2012, 06:25 PM

And Hakeem was MUCH WORSE from the field in his THREE Finals. He shot .500, .483 (and was outshot by an unfathomable .595 to .483 margin), and .479. How about Wilt in his SIX Finals? .517 (and he POUNDED Russell in that series by a .517 to .386 margin), .525, .534 (again, holding Russell to a .396 FG%), .560 (and outshooting Thurmond, in Nate's greatest season by a .560 to .343 margin) .600 (and clearly the FMVP), and then a seven game series of .625 (to go along with 23.2 ppg and 24.1 rpg.)

You want to know the difference? Olajuwon was the leading scorer..

Wilt in '67 was the 5th in points scored for his OWN team and in total he scored the 8th most points in that year's finals.

And wow, how great of Wilt to outscore Thurmond and Russell, both were terrible in terms of FG%.

And how about shooting in game seven of the Finals? In his ONE game seven, Hakeem shot 10-25, or 40%. In Wilt's two game seven's of the Finals, he shot a combined 17-24, or .709. Oh, and in those two games, his starting opposing centers shot a combined 4-12 (.333.)

Oh, you forgot to mention that Olajuwon almost had a triple double in that game while facing Patrick Ewing.. :faceplam

And yeah, what about Wilt's FT%...

And I get sick-and-tired of what Wilt's scoring average was in his two title seasons. First of all, in the first two playoff games of his '67 playoff run (the greatest in NBA history BTW), he scored a SIXER playoff high that season of 41 points, and then followed it the very next game with a 37 point performance (on 16-24 shooting.) In the BIGGEST playoff games that season, he was CLEARLY Philly's BEST scorer. In the clinching game five win over the eight-time defending champion Celtics, Greer scored 32 points, but on 12-28 shooting. Wilt scored 29, 22 of which came in tyyhe first half when the game was still close, and on 10-16 shooting. Then, in the clinching game six win over the Warriors in the Finals, Wilt outscored Thurmond, 24-12, while outshooting him, 8-13 to 4-13. How about Greer? 15 points on 5-16 shooting. Overall, Chamberlain averaged 21.7 ppg in the playoffs, to go along with 29.1 rpg, 9.2 apg, and on .579 shooting. All while CRUSHING Dierking, Russell, and Thurmond. Greer averaged 27 ppg on .429 shooting.

First of all, the '67 run was no where close to the greatest run ever. They faced a 39 win team in the first round and they even lost a game to them and in the final they lost 2 games against a 44 win team. Sure, they faced Boston in the 2nd round but the '76ers were a more talented team so nothing to brag about.

Oh, so Wilt was able to score on a 39 win team... In the finals he took the backseat for 4 guys and only averaged like 17 points per game.

And again cherry picking games, ha.. :facepalm

And in the '72 title run, Chamberlain averaged 19.4 ppg, 23.2 rpg, and on .600 in the Finals. And in the clinching game five win, all he did was score 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, grab 29 rebounds (the ENTIRE Knick team had 39 BTW) and block 10 shots (all while playing with a BROKEN wrist, too.)

While in total he was the fourth option through-out the playoffs.

And how about Hakeem's rebounding and FG%'s in his three Finals? Once again, he shot .479 in '86, which was good enough for FIFTH best in that series (or SIXTH best if you want to count Walton's .621 off the bench...and against Hakeem BTW.) Hell, his TEAMMATE, Rodney McCray shot a team-leading .588.

Again, rebounding is a retarded thing to mention. Wilt played in a league with crazy high pace. Hell, Warriors even missed 91 shots in one of the games in '67, that is more than Hakeem's opponents shot in total field goal attempts per game.

Olajuwon was by far the leading scorer of that Rocket team in '86. And he averaged the 2nd highest FG% for his team and comparing his scoring to Bill Walton who averaged like 20 points less only proves your intelligence.

In the '94 Finals, Hakeem shot a Finals' high .500, which was second behind his TEAMMATE, Otis Thorpe, who shot .529. BTW, Thorpe also LED the Rockets in the entire post-season, at .572.

Again proving that you're a retard, Hakeem was doubled and tripled through out the '94 finals. And how retarded are you really?

Olajuwon averaged 26.9 points in the '94 finals, Otis Thorpe averaged 9.3 points.. :facepalm

When was the last time Olajuwon had the option to be the fifth best scorer for his team and still win in the finals, haha.. Tell me that?

And how about the '95 Finals? While Hakeem was mis-firing to the tune of .483, Shaq was shooting an incredible .595 against him. Here again, Hakeem was only the FIFTH best shooter in that series. And once again, a TEAMMATE outshot him, and by a considerable margin. Mario Ellie scored 16.3 ppg on, get this... .629 shooting (including .571 from the arc.)
[QUOTE=jlauber]

Haha, it's calling spreading the court and haha, how many points did Mario Elie score that weren't wide open shots? And haha, you're shooting yourself in the foot, you whine constant about how terrible Shaq's teammates were, still his two best scorers, Grant and Penny combined for 39 points on 52% shooting.. :facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]
And rebounding? In the '94 Finals, Hakeem was not only badly outrebounded by Knicks center Patrick Ewing, 12.4 to 9.1 rpg, he was only the FOURTH best rebounder in that series, behind TEAMMATE Otis Thorpe, and Knick PF Charles Oakley.

What did Otis Thorpe do in that series? He averaged 9 points and Charles Oakley averaged 11 points per game compared to Olajuwon's 26.9 points and don't even get me started about defense. Olajuwon locked down Ewing to a pathetic 36% shooting.. :facepalm

How about the '95 Finals? THIRD best rebounder behind Shaq and Horace Grant. And as for this perception that Hakeem didn't have help in his title runs? How about Ellie's 16.3 ppg on .629 shooting; Horry's 17.8 ppg and 10 rpg; and Drexler's 21.5 ppg and 9.5 rpg?

Wait, Shaq had zero help according to you? So now when it fits you, you mention Horace 13.5 points per game on 53% while also outrebounding Olajuwon. And then you also mention that Penny averaged 25 points on 50% shooting.. Haha!

You can't even spell Elie's name, are you going to say that you actually know anything about him? All his points came after wide open shots.. :facepalm

You bash HOF:ers who Wilt played with while hyping former CBA player Mario Elie.. :facepalm

Now, in Wilt's SIX Finals, he was NEVER outrebounded. Hell, he was seldom outrebounded in single GAMES. Furthermore, find me a Finals in which Wilt had a teammate shoot .588 or that .629 mark. You won't. In fact, I couldn't find a Finals in which any of Wilt's teammates, playing significant minutes, even shot .500. And in those Six Finals series, I could only find one series, his LAST, in which he did not lead both teams in FG%. He shot .525, while Knick Dick Barnett shot .531. In the rest of Wilt's FIVE other Finals, he was MILES ahead of the next best shooter.

Wilt scored the 5th most points in '67 finals and in '72 he was outscored with 23 points per game on worse FG% shooting by Kareem and in total he was the fourth option on offense during that run.. :facepalm

And in the rest of the finals he lost, wow...

jlauber

08-25-2012, 06:38 PM

Of course, had Wilt allowed his teammates to take him down in the first round of the playoffs...EIGHT TIMES...how about his SCORING?

BTW, I will be posting some new info regarding his "decline" in the post-season, as well. It is amazing, but given the actual scoring and especially shooting percentages in the Wilt-era POST-SEASONS, he was consistently at or near his regular season numbers.

And, had he had the good "fortune" to have been eliminated in the first round of the playoffs, EIGHT times, as was the case with Hakeem, his first round numbers were often HIGHER. And, I have read an idiot post claiming that Hakeem outshot Wilt from the field in the post-season (by a .528 to .522 margin), BUT, I will be comparing their post-season LEAGUE AVERAGES, (and even including eFG%'s), which CLEARLY gives Chamberlain a HUGE edge.

As examples, in Wilt's fist eight post-seasons, and in his first round, he averaged

38.7 ppg

37.0 ppg

37.0 ppg

38.6 ppg and on .559 shooting (in a post-season NBA of 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting)

27.8 ppg (and then 30.1 ppg, on .555 shooting, and against Russell)

28.0 ppg

28.0 ppg (and a great example of FG% at .612 in a post-season at .424)

25.5 ppg (and on .584 shooting, while his opposing center, Bellamy was at 20.0 on .421 shooting.) And, as ALWAYS, Wilt outrebounded Bellamy by a 24.2 rpg to 16 rpg margin.

Even in his 11th season, and only four months removed from major knee surgery, Chamberlain put up a first round of 23.7 ppg., 20.3 rpg, and .549.

And, in his 71-72 post-season, he had a 14.5 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .629 first round series (and in an NBA post-season of .446.)

So while Chamberlain was shooting .522 in his post-season career, it came in post-seasons of between .402 to .455.) Meanwhile Hakeem's .528 came in post-seasons of as high as .492, and an efg% as high as .500. MANY in the .485+ range, as well.

And, keep in mind two more interesting points. One, in Wilt's second greatest scoring season (44.8 ppg on .528 shooting) his all-time worst roster kept him from playing in the post-season (which probably cost him another 2-3+ ppg in his post-seasob career average.) And two, he faced a starting HOF center in 105 of his 160 post-season games, including Russell in 49, Thurmond in 17, and a PRIME Kareem in 11.
.

Big#50

08-25-2012, 06:39 PM

Tim Duncan. One of the most clutch players ever.

jlauber

08-25-2012, 06:40 PM

millwad

08-25-2012, 06:47 PM

BTW, I posted EVERY ONE of Wilt's 35 post-season "must-win" and "series clinching" performances. Please, post ALL of Hakeem's (and not some cherry picked games over the course of TEN games.) Oh, and post his opposing center's numbers in them, as well. I want ALL of them.

How many of those games did he won? That's the real question.

And cherry picked? I posted all his must win's in his prime and he won 9 out of 10 of those games.

Wilt really nothing to do in this thread, greatest choking performance from the FT-line in one series doesn't give him the right to be mentioned in this thread.

And please post all of his FT% in those games..

Hands of Iron

08-25-2012, 07:01 PM

millwad

08-25-2012, 07:12 PM

:lol

You guys are entertaining as hell.

He's just mad because Connie Dierking had his best series ever against Wilt Chamberlain, can you imagine that the guy in the picture below averaged;

17.5 points, 13 rebounds and 3.5 asisists on Wilt Chamberlain?

http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/119/ddcf7c9fb438482bbc0c6b554c9f0611/l.jpg

jlauber

08-25-2012, 07:12 PM

How many of those games did he won? That's the real question.

And cherry picked? I posted all his must win's in his prime and he won 9 out of 10 of those games.

Wilt really nothing to do in this thread, greatest choking performance from the FT-line in one series doesn't give him the right to be mentioned in this thread.

And please post all of his FT% in those games..

Onced again, I can "cherry pick' Wilt's PRIME big games too.

Games of 56-35, 53-22, 50-35, 50-17, 46-34, 46-32, 46-23, 45-27, 42-37, 42-29, 41-34, 40-25, 39-30, 38-26 etc.

But, instead I gave you EVERY ONE of his BIG GAMES. All you can give me is Hakeem's playoff runs from '93 thru '95...in FIFTEEN post-seasons? I want ALL of his "must win" and "series clinching performances", AND his OPPOSING center's play in them, as well.

And once again, had Wilt allowed his teammates to blow EIGHT FIRST ROUND series, and here were Wilt's numbers...

38.7 ppg

37.0 ppg

37.0 ppg

38.6 ppg and on .559 shooting (in a post-season NBA of 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting)

27.8 ppg (and then 30.1 ppg, on .555 shooting, and against Russell)

28.0 ppg

28.0 ppg (and a great example of FG% at .612 in a post-season at .424)

25.5 ppg (and on .584 shooting, while his opposing center, Bellamy was at 20.0 on .421 shooting.) And, as ALWAYS, Wilt outrebounded Bellamy by a 24.2 rpg to 16 rpg margin.

Even in his 11th season, and only four months removed from major knee surgery, Chamberlain put up a first round of 23.7 ppg., 20.3 rpg, and .549.

And, in his 71-72 post-season, he had a 14.5 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .629 first round series (and in an NBA post-season of .446.)

So while Chamberlain was shooting .522 in his post-season career, it came in post-seasons of between .402 to .455.) Meanwhile Hakeem's .528 came in post-seasons of as high as .492, and an efg% as high as .500. MANY in the .485+ range, as well.

And, keep in mind two more interesting points. One, in Wilt's second greatest scoring season (44.8 ppg on .528 shooting) his all-time worst roster kept him from playing in the post-season (which probably cost him another 2-3+ ppg in his post-seasob career average.) And two, he faced a starting HOF center in 105 of his 160 post-season games, including Russell in 49, Thurmond in 17, and a PRIME Kareem in 11

Not only that but how about these numbers in his CAREER ABSOLUTE ELIMINATION GAMES...

The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.

Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)

Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.

In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)

And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games, while outshooting him by a .545 to that .383 margin (18-33 to 23-60.)

The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582 (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)

And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg (outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.

Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.

That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.

millwad

08-25-2012, 07:14 PM

Bla bla bla..

Post his FT% and also explain how you feel about the fact that the guy in the pic below had his best series in his career against prime Wilt Chamberlain?

http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/119/ddcf7c9fb438482bbc0c6b554c9f0611/l.jpg

What was the reason behind him having the series of his life against Wilt Chamberlain?

jlauber

08-25-2012, 07:17 PM

Post his FT% and also explain how you feel about the fact that the guy in the pic below had his best series in his career against prime Wilt Chamberlain?

http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/119/ddcf7c9fb438482bbc0c6b554c9f0611/l.jpg

What was the reason behind him having the series of his life against Wilt Chamberlain?

Nope. YOU post ALL of Hakeem's MUST WIN and SERIES CLINCHING GAMES, as well in which ROUND it occurred, AND his OPPOSING centers numbers in those games.

ALL of them...even a 36 year old Hakeem (and I DID post a 36 year old Wilt's BTW.)

HardwoodLegend

08-25-2012, 07:21 PM

How many of jlauber's 10,949 posts are about Wilt? Jesus.

He's quite knowledgable though. World's foremost Wilt scholar?

millwad

08-25-2012, 07:23 PM

Nope. YOU post ALL of Hakeem's MUST WIN and SERIES CLINCHING GAMES, as well in which ROUND it occurred, AND his OPPOSING centers numbers in those games.

ALL of them...even a 36 year old Hakeem (and I DID post a 36 year old Wilt's BTW.)

I don't have that amount of time to waste on a basketball player.

But damn, if Connie Dierking could average 17.5 points, 13 rebounds and 3.5 assists against Chamberlain I'm sure that Ryan Hollins who without no doubt is a more skilled player could destroy Chamberlain as well.

I'm very shocked over the fact that Dierking could put up numbers even close to that against a prime Chamberlain. Imagine a prime Shaq on Chamberlain instead of Connie Dierking, pure slaughter.. :bowdown:

millwad

08-25-2012, 07:25 PM

How many of jlauber's 10,949 posts are about Wilt? Jesus.

He's quite knowledgable though. World's foremost Wilt scholar?

Na, bro, he gets all of his posts from google. Just look what he used to post about Wilt and his era;

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5029077&postcount=53

And all his 10,949 posts are about Wilt, or something Wilt-related.

millwad

08-25-2012, 07:29 PM

By the way, Jlauber, I found a picture of Connie Dierkings daughter, Cammy Dierking. Look how happy she is in this pic below, she's probably thinking about the fact that her 6'9 father managed to have the series of his life against prime Chamberlain.

http://www.uc.edu/news/cammy.jpg

jlauber

08-25-2012, 07:38 PM

I don't have that amount of time to waste on a basketball player.

But damn, if Connie Dierking could average 17.5 points, 13 rebounds and 3.5 assists against Chamberlain I'm sure that Ryan Hollins who without no doubt is a more skilled player could destroy Chamberlain as well.

I'm very shocked over the fact that Dierking could put up numbers even close to that against a prime Chamberlain. Imagine a prime Shaq on Chamberlain instead of Connie Dierking, pure slaughter.. :bowdown:

Regarding Dierking...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196401280PHI.html

Of course, Chamberlain also hung a 60 point game on him in the 68-69 season, which is considerably more than Kareem's HIGH game of 41 against Dierking. Evidently Hollins would have trashed Kareem too. Which, CLEARLY means that Hollins would have DESTROYED a Hakeem who allowed a 38-39 year old Kareem to AVERAGE 32.0 on .630 shooting against him in TEN STRAIGHT H2H GAMES...including games of 40, 43, and 46 (in only minutes and on 21-30 shooting.)

BTW, do you think Hollins was as skilled as 6-11 260 lb Bob Lanier?

How about Wilt against Lanier in ELEVEN STRAIGHT H2H games in his LAST TWO seasons against Lanier?

BTW, and for those that may have missed this...

Wilt faced the 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier in 11 H2H games in their 71-72 and 72-73 seasons (Wilt's LAST two seasons.) Lanier was already a great player by that 71-72 season, with a career high 25.7 ppg average.

In any case, here are Wilt's numbers...

Quote:
71-72

1. 26 pts. 15 rebs. 11-14
2. 31 pts. 31 rebs. 15-22
3. 29 pts. 18 rebs. 13-17
4. 30 pts. 21 rebs. 14-18
5. 28 pts. 14 rebs. 10-13

144 pts. 89 rebs. 63-84

28.8 ppg 17.8 rpg .750 FG%

72-73

1. 22 pts. 19 rebs. 10-12
2. 21 pts. 21 rebs. 9-10
3. 14 pts 9 rebs 7-8
4. 18 pts unknown unknown
5. 22 pts. 14 rebs. 11-15
6. 22 pts. 13 rebs. 9-10

119 pts. in six games
76 rebs in five games
46-55 in five games

19.8 ppg 15.2 rpg .836 FG%

11 games

23.9 ppg

10 games

16.5 rpg

10 games

109-139 .784 FG%

BTW, Lanier had some big games against Wilt, too. But this was interesting from the standpoint that this was a well-past his peak Chamberlain, and in seasons in which he hardly shot the ball, averaging 24 ppg on .784 shooting over the course of 11 straight games, against a 6-11 HOFer.

millwad

08-25-2012, 07:40 PM

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196401280PHI.html

BTW, do you think Hollins was as skilled as 6-11 260 lb Bob Lanier?

How about Wilt against Lanier in ELEVEN STRAIGHT H2H games in his LAST TWO seasons against Lanier?

I think that Ryan Hollins is way more skilled than Dierking, don't you think?

jlauber

08-25-2012, 07:48 PM

millwad

08-25-2012, 07:49 PM

Yet, you do have time to WASTE looking up Connie Dierking's daughter.

Well, that took me 30 seconds.

Hands of Iron

08-25-2012, 08:04 PM

98-03 Shaq wasn't too bad in elimination games:

38/7/1 58.3% fg
36/14/1 52.2% fg
32/18/4 62.5% fg
18/9/5 55.6% fg
41/17/1 56.0% fg
35/13/2 48.0% fg
31/10/3 61.9% fg

Close-Out Games

36/16/4 69.6% fg
31/15/5 76.5% fg
31/9/4 70.6% fg
37/11/3 63.6% fg
32/18/4 62.5% fg
24/9/3 66.7%fg
15/21/3 36.8% fg
17/11/5 41.2% fg
35/11/3 63.0% fg
41/12/4 59.4% fg
25/15/2 52.9% fg
25/10/2 56.3% fg
26/10/2 57.9% fg
29/13/5 55.6% fg
21/11/7 45.5% fg
21/11/2 38.9% fg
34/10/4 60.0% fg
24/17/9 55.6% fg

jlauber

08-25-2012, 08:06 PM

I think that Ryan Hollins is way more skilled than Dierking, don't you think?

Not at ALL. Same with multiple all-star Zelmo Beaty, who Wilt torched for a 38.6 ppg, 23.0 rpg, .559 seven game series in the '64 playoffs, and in a post-season that averaged 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting.

Nor do I think Hollins would have scored a point against 6-11 HOFer Nate Thurmond, who battled KAREEM in 43 career H2H starts, and held Kareem to SEVEN games of 30+points, with a HIGH game of 34 points in those 43 H2H's. Not only that, but in the research that I have done, Kareem probably shot less than .430 against Nate in those 43 career H2H's...including three straight post-season series of .486, .428, and .405.

And yet a PRIME Chamberlain wiped the floor with Thurmond. In fact, in a span of ELEVEN STRAIGHT H2H games against Thurmond, Chamberlain averaged 30 ppg. Including games of 30, 33, 33, 34, 38, and 45 (and outscoring Nate in those games by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and 45-13.)

Or that Wilt also faced Thurmond in three playoff series, and outshot him by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and get this... .560 to .343 (in Nate's greatest season BTW.)

Nor do I think Hollins would stand a chance against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy, either. How many seasons has Hollins averaged 20+ ppg (and with a high of 32?) Hell, and OLD Bellamy was putting up 18.6 ppg seasons on .545 shooting in an NBA that featured centers like Hayes, Reed, Cowens, Unseld, Lanier, Thurmond, Kareem, and Wilt.

Yet, Chamberlain CRUSHED Bellamy from his very first game (by a 52-14 margin) until late in his career. He had entire SEASONS, covering ten games each, of 43.7 ppg and even 52.7 ppg against Bellamy. And in the '68 playoffs, Chamberlain outscored Bellamy, 25.5 ppg to 20 ppg; outrebounded Bellamy, 24.2 rpg to 16 rpg; and outshot Bellamy by a .584 to .421 margin (as bad as Shaq outshooting Hakeem by a .595 to .483 margin, and then later by a .529 to .426 margin.)

millwad

08-25-2012, 08:07 PM

Not at ALL. Same with multiple all-star Zelmo Beaty, who Wilt torched for a 38.6 ppg, 23.0 rpg, .559 seven game series in the '64 playoffs, and in a post-season that averaged 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting.

Nor do I think Hollins would have scored a point against 6-11 HOFer Nate Thurmond, who battled KAREEM in 43 career H2H starts, and held Kareem to SEVEN games of 30+points, with a HIGH game of 34 points in those 43 H2H's. Not only that, but in the research that I have done, Kareem probably shot less than .430 against Nate in those 43 career H2H's...including three straight post-season series of .486, .428, and .405.

And yet a PRIME Chamberlain wiped the floor with Thurmond. In fact, in a span of ELEVEN STRAIGHT H2H games against Thurmond, Chamberlain averaged 30 ppg. Including games of 30, 33, 33, 34, 38, and 45 (and outscoring Nate in those games by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and 45-13.)

Or that Wilt also faced Thurmond in three playoff series, and outshot him by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and get this... .560 to .343 (in Nate's greatest season BTW.)

Nor do I think Hollins would stand a chance against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy, either. How many seasons has Hollins averaged 20+ ppg (and with a high of 32?) Hell, and OLD Bellamy was putting up 18.6 ppg seasons on .545 shooting in an NBA that featured centers like Hayes, Reed, Cowens, Unseld, Lanier, Thurmond, Kareem, and Wilt.

Yet, Chamberlain CRUSHED Bellamy from his very first game (by a 52-14 margin) until late in his career. He had entire SEASONS, covering ten games each, of 43.7 ppg and even 52.7 ppg against Bellamy. And in the '68 playoffs, Chamberlain outscored Bellamy, 25.5 ppg to 20 ppg; outrebounded Bellamy, 24.2 rpg to 16 rpg; and outshot Bellamy by a .584 to .421 margin (as bad as Shaq outshooting Hakeem by a .595 to .483 margin, and then later by a .529 to .426 margin.)

Conny Dierking shot the ball with two hands.. :facepalm

jlauber

08-25-2012, 08:09 PM

Close-Out Games

36/16/4 69.6% fg
31/15/5 76.5% fg
31/9/4 70.6% fg
37/11/3 63.6% fg
32/18/4 62.5% fg
24/9/3 66.7%fg
15/21/3 36.8% fg
17/11/5 41.2% fg
35/11/3 63.0% fg
41/12/4 59.4% fg
25/15/2 52.9% fg
25/10/2 56.3% fg
26/10/2 57.9% fg
29/13/5 55.6% fg
21/11/7 45.5% fg
21/11/2 38.9% fg
34/10/4 60.0% fg
24/17/9 55.6% fg

Impressive. Almost Wilt-esque.

Hands of Iron

08-25-2012, 08:12 PM

Impressive. Almost Wilt-esque.

Pretty good, and that's a ton of games from only 98-03. It's a smaller sample size, but seems he actually did better when facing elimination. The one poor game he had, he actually shoots better than Kobe from the FT line in it. :lol Lakers were even in that position thanks to Kobe's poor play through most of the series anyway. Shaq had games of 41/12 and 31/21 in that series.

jlauber

08-25-2012, 08:18 PM

Pretty good, and that's a ton of games from only 98-03. It's a smaller sample size, but seems he actually did better when facing elimination. The one poor game he had, he actually shoots better than Kobe from the FT line in it. :lol Lakers were even in that position thanks to Kobe's poor play through most of the series anyway. Shaq had games of 41/12 and 31/21 in that series.

Of course, I could post Wilt's close out games in the first half of his career, including those of his opposing centers, and he would just have crushed them.

BUT, I posted EVERY ONE of Wilt's CAREER "must-win" and "series clinching games." ALL 35 of them, from his rookie season, until his last season at age 36. Or from his first post-season "must win" game of 53 points, on 22-42 shooting, and 18 rebounds, to his last post-season "series clinching" game of 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. And I have challenged other's here to do the same with anyone else. I suspect that only MJ could challenge his domination.

And, here again, include rebounding (if known...which not all of Wilt's were...although he did outrebound EVERY opposing center in ALL 29 of his post-season series.) And opposing center's scoring, rebounding, and FG%'s (if known.)

Odinn

08-25-2012, 08:22 PM

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/the-elite-in-elimination-games-since-1991/

Hands of Iron

08-25-2012, 08:26 PM

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/the-elite-in-elimination-games-since-1991/

LOL @ Shaq 28/11/3 on 59% TS.

****ers. :applause:

33/13/3 in his prime (98-03).

jlauber

08-25-2012, 08:26 PM

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/the-elite-in-elimination-games-since-1991/

Interesting, however, it doesn't include EVERY "must-win" or "series clinching" game for these players. I want ALL of them. And in the case of centers, at least, how their opposing center fared.

millwad

08-25-2012, 08:27 PM

Of course, I could post Wilt's close out games in the first half of his career, including those of his opposing centers, and he would just have crushed them.

BUT, I posted EVERY ONE of Wilt's CAREER "must-win" and "series clinching games." ALL 35 of them, from his rookie season, until his last season at age 36. Or from his first post-season "must win" game of 53 points, on 22-42 shooting, and 18 rebounds, to his last post-season "series clinching" game of 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. And I have challenged other's here to do the same with anyone else. I suspect that only MJ could challenge his domination.

And, here again, include rebounding (if known...which not all of Wilt's were...although he did outrebound EVERY opposing center in ALL 29 of his post-season series.) And opposing center's scoring, rebounding, and FG%'s (if known.)

Post some stats about Pam instead?

ralph_i_el

08-25-2012, 08:30 PM

timmy D was/is clutch

jlauber

08-25-2012, 08:46 PM

BTW,

In Wilt's "scoring" seasons, covering 59-60 thru 65-66, and in his "must-win" and "series clinching" performances, he played in 13 games. I don't have his FG% in his '65 series clincher against the Royals, but I do have his other 12 games.

Overall, in those 13 games, he averaged 37.3 ppg, and 27.2 rpg. And he shot .529 from the field in those 12 known games.

Incidently the NBA post-season FG%'s in those six years were .402, .403, .411, .420, .429, and .440.

So Chamberlain was outshooting the league average by more than 10% in those post-seasons "must win" and "series clinching" games.

Give me a list of players, in their PRIMES that had a SINGLE GAME of 37-27 .529 in their post-season careers, much less AVERAGING it over the course of 13 straight games.

millwad

08-25-2012, 09:13 PM

Give me a list of players, in their PRIMES that had a SINGLE GAME of 37-27 .529 in their post-season careers, much less AVERAGING it over the course of 13 straight games.

Stop posting stats, retard, Wilt's stats are inflated due the era he played in. Just check the '67 finals, in one of the games the Warriors missed like 91 shots and then compare that to the modern era and Miami Heat who won this year. Miami Heat averaged 77 FGA attempts during the finals.

Can you believe that the Warriors MISSED more shots in a game then what Miami attempted in field goals?

CRAZY.

Hands of Iron

08-25-2012, 09:14 PM

How the boys over at RealGM voted on the Greatest Peaks:

01. 1991 Michael Jordan
02. 2000 Shaquille O'Neal
03. 1965 Bill Russell
04. 1967 Wilt Chamberlain
05. 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon
06. 1977 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
07. 1986 Larry Bird
08. 1987 Magic Johnson
09. 2003 Tim Duncan
10. 2009 Lebron James

Legends66NBA7

08-25-2012, 09:30 PM

Okay fine. Don't single out my posts and ignore Millwad's insane anti-Wilt nonsense, then.

I've always defended the anti Wilt claims, whether it's a response millwad, Deuce, or whoever. Check my quotes out in the Wilt threads, you know this.

Their welcome to challenge me (or even yourself) on facts alone. I know Wilt also had bad games (everyone does) in some of those game... but I don't need go off topic about Hakeem or anybody else (unless they have been brought up).

ThaRegul8r

08-25-2012, 09:30 PM

Legends66NBA7

08-25-2012, 09:31 PM

Legends66NBA7

08-25-2012, 09:32 PM

Which has, what exactly, to do with the topic?

Me thinks that he might have had too many tabs open and put that info in the wrong thread ? :confusedshrug:

millwad

08-25-2012, 09:33 PM

I've always defended the anti Wilt claims, whether it's a response millwad, Deuce, or whoever. Check my quotes out in the Wilt threads, you know this.

Their welcome to challenge me (or even yourself) on facts alone. I know Wilt also had bad games (everyone does) in some of those game... but I don't need go off topic about Hakeem or anybody else (unless they have been brought up).

Legends, you know I love you, bro. :cheers:

But I'm not anti-Wilt, I'm anti-Jlauber-spam-deluxe-24-seven-a-day-essays-about-cherry-picked-stats-I-want-to-pee-in-Jlaubers-hat.

Legends66NBA7

08-25-2012, 09:57 PM

Legends, you know I love you, bro. :cheers:

But I'm not anti-Wilt, I'm anti-Jlauber-spam-deluxe-24-seven-a-day-essays-about-cherry-picked-stats-I-want-to-pee-in-Jlaubers-hat.

Alright, cool. :cheers:

On a side note though, I'm still going to get Hakeem's elimination game numbers out (clinching, I'll keep seperate)... and by the way (just looking at the raw data), they look impressive as hell.

Deuce Bigalow

08-25-2012, 10:15 PM

Stop posting stats, retard, Wilt's stats are inflated due the era he played in. Just check the '67 finals, in one of the games the Warriors missed like 91 shots and then compare that to the modern era and Miami Heat who won this year. Miami Heat averaged 77 FGA attempts during the finals.

Can you believe that the Warriors MISSED more shots in a game then what Miami attempted in field goals?

CRAZY.
Wilt averaged 28.5 RPG in that series. He and misinformed people go "My God"

There was a total of 861 rebounds grabbed in that 6 game series. A 143.5 RPG average. 28.5 rpg out of 143.5 is a 19.9% of the total rebounds. That is great no doubt, but in today's league that averages about 84 rpg that is 16.8 rpg. Still great but not even close to 28.5. And that isn't even factoring the competition today which is greater, and the fact that nobody plays close to 48 mpg in today's league, he would probably be at 40 mpg. A minus of 8 mpg out of 48 mpg is 17%, that means a 17% decrease in his stats. With 40 mpg his RPG is 14.

jlauber

08-25-2012, 10:24 PM

Wilt averaged 28.5 RPG in that series. He and misinformed people go "My God"

There was a total of 861 rebounds grabbed in that 6 game series. A 143.5 RPG average. 28.5 rpg out of 143.5 is a 19.9% of the total rebounds. That is great no doubt, but in today's league that averages about 84 rpg that is 16.8 rpg. Still great but not even close to 28.5. And that isn't even factoring the competition today which is greater, and the fact that nobody plays close to 48 mpg in today's league, he would probably be at 40 mpg. A minus of 8 mpg out of 48 mpg is 17%, that means a 17% decrease in his stats. With 40 mpg his RPG is 14.

Of course, Chamberlain in the series just before that one, and against Russell's 60-21 Celtics, grabbed 25% of the available rebounds in that series, with games as high as 27, 28, and even 30%!

Or that a Wilt, in his LAST post-season, covering 17 games, averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg. Included in those games were a series in which he outrebounded the league's second best rebounder, Nate Thurmond, by a 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg margin. Oh, and BTW, Kareem faced Thurmond in the series before, and averaged 16.2 rpg against him.

That 22.5 rpg translates to nearly 19 rpg in LAST years post-season. All accomplished by a Wilt who was 36 years old.

Hands of Iron

08-25-2012, 10:28 PM

Me thinks that he might have had too many tabs open and put that info in the wrong thread ? :confusedshrug:

Only two, but yes. :lol

Deuce Bigalow

08-25-2012, 10:33 PM

Of course, Chamberlain in the series just before that one, and against Russell's 60-21 Celtics, grabbed 25% of the available rebounds in that series, with games as high as 27, 28, and even 30%!

Or that a Wilt, in his LAST post-season, covering 17 games, averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg. Included in those games were a series in which he outrebounded the league's second best rebounder, Nate Thurmond, by a 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg margin. Oh, and BTW, Kareem faced Thurmond in the series before, and averaged 16.2 rpg against him.

That 22.5 rpg translates to nearly 19 rpg in LAST years post-season. All accomplished by a Wilt who was 36 years old.
That does not translate to 19 RPG

Nobody plays 48 MPG

Wilt's Total RB% was 20.2 in the '72 Playoffs.

Dwight Howard last year had a Total RB% of 21.9.
His RPG was 14.5.

Hands of Iron

08-25-2012, 10:42 PM

Which has, what exactly, to do with the topic?

Well come to think of it, five of the top six were Centers and it didn't turn out too disagreeable imo. Certainly they all had to bring a certain amount of 'clutchness' which to some people seems to be limited to the last couple minutes of a game. How about dominating and impacting a must win game over the duration as a whole? OP also spoke of how he rarely sees Centers in top 5 lists. :applause:

jlip

08-25-2012, 10:51 PM

Yes centers can, have, and will continue to be clutch especially if you don't use the modern and foolishly narrow minded definition of clutch which basically limits this concept to game winning shots in the last few seconds of a contest. If you define clutch as simply coming through when your team needs you most during either game or series determining moments then the answer is again easily, yes.

josh99

08-25-2012, 10:54 PM

I barely see anyone put them in their top 5, mostly permitter players.

I know their limited scoring the ball in crutch time and most suck at the free throw line. But do u have any center in ur top 5

And don't give me Russell cuz he won 11 rings. Dude overrated and played in a shitty era
It depends what you mean by clutch, is clutch playing well in big games or playing well in the last 2 minutes of a game?

Deuce Bigalow

08-25-2012, 10:55 PM

jlauber

08-25-2012, 11:05 PM

Wilt '71 Playoffs: 21.3 TR% (12 games)
Wilt '72 Playoffs: 20.2 TRB% (15 games)
Wilt '73 Playoffs: 21.7 TRB% (17 games)

Moses '77 playoffs: 21.7 TRB% (12 games)
Moses '83 Playoffs: 21.9 TRB% (13 games)

Duncan '08 Playoffs: 21.4 TRB% (17 games)

Dwight '09 Playoffs: 24.5 TRB% (23 games)

Shaq '03 Playoffs: 21.3 TRB% (12 games)

Rodman '95 Playoffs: 25.7 TRB% (14 games)
Rodman '89 Playoffs: 24.4 TRB% (17 games)
Rodman '96 Playoffs: 24.3 TRB% (18 games)
Rodman '98 Playoffs: 21.3 TRB% (21 games)

Wilt isn't some rebounder that is on another level from everyone else.

First of all, those were Wilt's LAST three post-seasons.

Secondly, YES, Wilt did play 48 mpg in the post-season (47.2 mpg in his 160 post-season games), and he was the ONLY player doing it.

Thirdly, Wilt outrebounded EVERYBODY in the post-season. MANY by HUGE margins. He had THREE playoff series against RUSSELL in which he outrebounded him by FIVE, FIVE, and NINE rpg. He outrebounded Thurmond in all three of their H2H post-season series, and the last two by margins of FOUR and SIX rpg.

Fourth, a PRIME Chamberlain had KNOWN series, and against RUSSELL no less, of 25% of the total available rebounds. When Wilt was on the floor, he OWNED the glass.

Fifth, Rodman AVERAGED 9.9 rpg in his entire post-season career, and his HIGH series was 16.0 rpg (in a THREE game series.) Chamberlain AVERAGED 24.5 rpg in his post-season career, which included EIGHT post-seasons of 24.7+ rpg, and as high as 29.1 and even 30.2 rpg. And he had THREE post-season series, just against RUSSELL, of 30.2 rpg, 31.4 rpg, and 32.0 rpg.

Finally, and as both Psileas and ThaRegul8r have pointed out, Chamberlain was blocking over 7 shots per game late in his playoff career, and probably had post-seasons of over 10 bpg. He also went after many others. How many rebounds did Chamberlain LOSE by going for blocks?

Kobe 4 The Win

08-25-2012, 11:19 PM

Duncan always sems to hit the big shot when they need it. Sometimes crazy falling away shots. I consider him pretty clutch.

Kareem was clutch.

Deuce Bigalow

08-25-2012, 11:26 PM

First of all, those were Wilt's LAST three post-seasons.

Secondly, YES, Wilt did play 48 mpg in the post-season (47.2 mpg in his 160 post-season games), and he was the ONLY player doing it.

Thirdly, Wilt outrebounded EVERYBODY in the post-season. MANY by HUGE margins. He had THREE playoff series against RUSSELL in which he outrebounded him by FIVE, FIVE, and NINE rpg. He outrebounded Thurmond in all three of their H2H post-season series, and the last two by margins of FOUR and SIX rpg.

Fourth, a PRIME Chamberlain had KNOWN series, and against RUSSELL no less, of 25% of the total available rebounds. When Wilt was on the floor, he OWNED the glass.

Fifth, Rodman AVERAGED 9.9 rpg in his entire post-season career, and his HIGH series was 16.0 rpg (in a THREE game series.) Chamberlain AVERAGED 24.5 rpg in his post-season career, which included EIGHT post-seasons of 24.7+ rpg, and as high as 29.1 and even 30.2 rpg. And he had THREE post-season series, just against RUSSELL, of 30.2 rpg, 31.4 rpg, and 32.0 rpg.

Finally, and as both Psileas and ThaRegul8r have pointed out, Chamberlain was blocking over 7 shots per game late in his playoff career, and probably had post-seasons of over 10 bpg. He also went after many others. How many rebounds did Chamberlain LOSE by going for blocks?
:roll: at how clueless you are.

Go ahead post more stats:banghead:

Wilt's TRB% in the '72 Playoffs was 21.2.
Dwight's TRB% in the '09 Playoffs 24.5. His RPG was 15.3.

Do you not get it yet?

millwad

08-26-2012, 05:55 AM

jlauber

08-26-2012, 01:47 PM

No one should actually take Wilt and some of the oldschool players rebounding numbers seriously.

Like all yesterday Jlauber was bragging about the amount of rebounds Wilt averaged in the '67 finals.

Sure, Wilt averaged 28.5 rebounds per game in that finals but only to show how stupid and ignorant Jlauber is when he makes comparisons between Wilt's rebounding stats and the modern era players rebounding stats we can compare the modern era field goal attempts per game compared to Wilt's era's field goal attempts.

And since Jlauber was bragging about Wilt's rebounding in the '67 finals, lets compare it to the 2012 NBA finals and Miami Heat.

The Warriors in the '67 finals AVERAGED 74 missed shots per game, the Miami Heat of 2012 averaged 77 field goal attempts per game and the Thunder averaged 80 field goal attempts per game.

And it doesn't stop there, the Warriors averaged 124 shots per game during the '67 finals, that is 47 shots more than the Heat and 44 shots more per game than the Thunder.

I guess everyone but Jlauber realizes how stupid it is to compare Wilt's rebounding to any player from the modern era. Too bad that he won't ever understand it himself.

Let's see...

In game one of the '67 ECF's, and against RUSSELL, Wilt grabbed 32 rebounds (Russell had 15 BTW), out of a TOTAL of 120 available rebounds. Let's help Dickwad here shall we...

32/120 = 26.7%

In the clinching game five of the '67 ECF's, and against RUSSELL, Chamberlain had 36 rebounds (Russell had 21 BTW) out of a TOTAL of 128 available.

36/128 = 28.1%

In his record-setting game three performance, Wilt ripped down 41 rebounds (Russell had 29 BTW), out of a TOTAL of 134 available rebounds.

41/134 = 30.5%

And those that use TRB% of course do not take actual MINUTES PLAYED into account. Using Dwight Howard's LIMITED minutes (39.5 mpg in his '09 post-season) rewards Howard, and punishes a player like Wilt who COULD and DID play 48 mpg.

Once again, Chamberlain played 47.2 mpg in his ENTIRE post-season career, covering 160 games. And OBVIOUSLY, a more refreshed Wilt, "only" playing 40-42 mpg, would be MORE efficient in TRB%, as well. After all, that stat applies when ON THE FLOOR.

And idiots like Duncewood bringing up Wilt's TRB% in his LAST three seasons (all well over 20% BTW), at ages 34, 35, and 36 (and all on a surgically repaired knee), as if it was a true indicator of Wilt's rebounding ability is truly laughable.

Once again, in Wilt's LAST post-season, covering 17 playoff games, he averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg. In the 2011 post-season, the NBA averaged 41.2 rpg.... or 81.2 % of Wilt's '73 post-season. Wilt's 22.5 rpg translates to 18.3 rpg in the 2011 post-season. And keep in mind that was a 36 year old Wilt.

You want some other examples?

In the clinching game five of the '72 Finals, Chamberlain, with one badly sprained wrist, and the other FRACTURED, grabbed 29 rebounds out of a TOTAL of 106 (the ENTIRE Knick team had 39 BTW), or 27.3% of the available rebounds (again, by a 35 year old Wilt.)

How about Wilt's 55 rebound game? He outrebounded RUSSELL, 55-19, and in a game that had 149 TOTAL rebounds. Or 36.9% of the available rebounds.

Of course, Chamberlain played in 29 post-season series...and was NEVER outrebounded in ANY of them. Not only that, but he was battling the game's greatest rebounders in them, as well. Lucas in FOUR, Thurmond in THREE, a PRIME Kareem in TWO, and Russell in EIGHT.

And, as I mentioned previously, he was outrebounding Thurmond by margins of FOUR and even SIX per game in two of those series; Lucas by as much THIRTEEN per game; and Russell by margins of as much as FIVE, FIVE, and even NINE per game in those series.

These sorry attempts to disparage Wilt's accomplishments are laughable...

millwad

08-26-2012, 03:25 PM

Let's see...

In game one of the '67 ECF's, and against RUSSELL, Wilt grabbed 32 rebounds (Russell had 15 BTW), out of a TOTAL of 120 available rebounds. Let's help Dickwad here shall we...

32/120 = 26.7%

In the clinching game five of the '67 ECF's, and against RUSSELL, Chamberlain had 36 rebounds (Russell had 21 BTW) out of a TOTAL of 128 available.

36/128 = 28.1%

In his record-setting game three performance, Wilt ripped down 41 rebounds (Russell had 29 BTW), out of a TOTAL of 134 available rebounds.

41/134 = 30.5%

And those that use TRB% of course do not take actual MINUTES PLAYED into account. Using Dwight Howard's LIMITED minutes (39.5 mpg in his '09 post-season) rewards Howard, and punishes a player like Wilt who COULD and DID play 48 mpg.

Once again, Chamberlain played 47.2 mpg in his ENTIRE post-season career, covering 160 games. And OBVIOUSLY, a more refreshed Wilt, "only" playing 40-42 mpg, would be MORE efficient in TRB%, as well. After all, that stat applies when ON THE FLOOR.

And idiots like Duncewood bringing up Wilt's TRB% in his LAST three seasons (all well over 20% BTW), at ages 34, 35, and 36 (and all on a surgically repaired knee), as if it was a true indicator of Wilt's rebounding ability is truly laughable.

Once again, in Wilt's LAST post-season, covering 17 playoff games, he averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg. In the 2011 post-season, the NBA averaged 41.2 rpg.... or 81.2 % of Wilt's '73 post-season. Wilt's 22.5 rpg translates to 18.3 rpg in the 2011 post-season. And keep in mind that was a 36 year old Wilt.

You want some other examples?

In the clinching game five of the '72 Finals, Chamberlain, with one badly sprained wrist, and the other FRACTURED, grabbed 29 rebounds out of a TOTAL of 106 (the ENTIRE Knick team had 39 BTW), or 27.3% of the available rebounds (again, by a 35 year old Wilt.)

How about Wilt's 55 rebound game? He outrebounded RUSSELL, 55-19, and in a game that had 149 TOTAL rebounds. Or 36.9% of the available rebounds.

Of course, Chamberlain played in 29 post-season series...and was NEVER outrebounded in ANY of them. Not only that, but he was battling the game's greatest rebounders in them, as well. Lucas in FOUR, Thurmond in THREE, a PRIME Kareem in TWO, and Russell in EIGHT.

And, as I mentioned previously, he was outrebounding Thurmond by margins of FOUR and even SIX per game in two of those series; Lucas by as much THIRTEEN per game; and Russell by margins of as much as FIVE, FIVE, and even NINE per game in those series.

These sorry attempts to disparage Wilt's accomplishments are laughable...

Cherry picking stats at it's finest and your reply wasn't an answer to my comment.

Wilt sure outrebounded his peers but you brag about it way too much, he was taller and more athletic, no surprise he grabbed more rebounds.

My thing with your nonsense is the fact that you don't give a damn about the major differences in FGA and missed shots and the extreme pace of that era when you compare Wilt's rebounding stats straight with modern era players..

It takes a retard to do so.