Can somebody explain to me why the Pacers aren't elite

[Mr Exlax]

On paper they should be unstoppable right? I just really thought they were gonna do big things last season. Almost elite. Somebody break it down for me. I don't understand what's holding them back. They have good players 1-5, but I don't know who they're 6th man is this coming season. I will admit that I haven't seen them play a ton other than in the playoffs against Miami. None of their games are televised. They were my dark horse team. After Bosh went down I honestly expected them to beat Miami.

Found it!

[Pointguard]

On paper they should be unstoppable right? I just really thought they were gonna do big things last season. Almost elite. Somebody break it down for me. I don't understand what's holding them back. They have good players 1-5, but I don't know who they're 6th man is this coming season. I will admit that I haven't seen them play other than in the playoffs against Miami. None of their games are televised. They were my dark horse team. After Bosh went down I honestly expected them to beat Miami.
The played Chicago great the year before but misplayed Miami last year. They thought they could get extra tough with the Heat, having total forgot who Pat Riley was. They were ahead in the series but were surprised when their get tough tactic back fired. They just played their lead the wrong way - otherwise its a 7 game series and they are getting their respect.

[Clippersfan86]

The played Chicago great the year before but misplayed Miami last year. They thought they could get extra tough with the Heat, having total forgot who Pat Riley was. They were ahead in the series but were surprised when their get tough tactic back fired. They just played their lead the wrong way - otherwise its a 7 game series and they are getting their respect.

Same thing happened with Memphis and Clippers too.

[b1imtf]

No superstar

[Mr Exlax]

No superstar

But Grainger and Hibbert have damn near superstar talent.

[b1imtf]

But Grainger and Hibbert have damn near superstar talent.
But they aren't at the level of the real superstars

[TheNaturalWR]

No superstar

This. No superstar? You're not contending.

[BoutPractice]

The Pistons were contenders for a long time without a true superstar.
In an era of super teams, though, it's definitely more difficult to get it done that way.

[JohnnySic]

They weren't ready for the big time last year. They had a big size advantage on the Heat and could not exploit it. This year, we'll see.

[StateOfMind12]

No superstar and one of the worst coaches in the league.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Granger has near superstar level talent ?

:roll:

decent scorer off the bench on a championship team.

Melo could probably put them into contention.

[Mr Exlax]

Granger has near superstar level talent ?

:roll:

decent scorer off the bench on a championship team.

In my eyes he does. He's severly underrated to me. He only struggles against Lebron really.

[PacerRaptor]

Pacers are a young team, but they do lack that superstar presence. With the exception of the Pistons, not many teams have gone far without a superstar.

Hopefully Paul George can pan out to our expectations. Also, if Eric Gordon can stay healthy, I would love to package Granger + others/picks for him

[Freedom Kid7]

Lack of a superstar with leadership skills. Hibbert may be a star, but he is not a superstar

[Mr Exlax]

Pacers are a young team, but they do lack that superstar presence. With the exception of the Pistons, not many teams have gone far without a superstar.

Hopefully Paul George can pan out to our expectations. Also, if Eric Gordon can stay healthy, I would love to package Granger + others/picks for him

Maybe that's what it is. I mean I know they're lacking a superstar, but the talent level is there. I just forget how young that team really is.

[NOHCP3]

If Hibbert gets nasty and tough... They could take the next step.. I think the book has been written on Granger. Good but nowhere near great. Hibbert is the key and the money man now.

[SourPatchKids]

They are almost lethal.

[Remix]

Granger has near superstar level talent ?

:roll:

decent scorer off the bench on a championship team.

Melo could probably put them into contention.
You think Granger is only good enough to be a decent scorer off the bench?

You're an idiot.

[Rubio2Gasol]

You think Granger is only good enough to be a decent scorer off the bench?

You're an idiot.

Did you miss the part about the championship team?

JR Smith could easily be an amazing scorer on a team that would give him the same license to shoot that Granger has, but that doesn't mean that team would go anywhere.

[Mr Exlax]

Did you miss the part about the championship team?

JR Smith could easily be an amazing scorer on a team that would give him the same license to shoot that Granger has, but that doesn't mean that team would go anywhere.

Granger was supposed to keep getting better. That year he made the all-star team i just knew he was gonna keep getting better. He's got the skills and talent to be a superstar. He almost just doesn't want to lol. i can't explain it.

[DuMa]

Larry Bird said it best. S-O-F-T

[greymatter]

Not elite because they're not even conference final material let alone finals material.

[longtime lurker]

No superstar
This. Replace their starting PG or C with Deron Williams or Dwight Howard and they're legitimate contenders.

[Mach_3]

Larry Bird said it best. S-O-F-T

That, lack of exploting the mismatches they had on the Heat, and no body they can give the ball to and say "go get us some points" Danny Granger has already proven to me last year that he can't be/doesn't want to be that guy

[Mr Exlax]

Could it be coaching?

[Phenith]

How about this... they are still a relatively young team and are on track to be one of the best in the east for years to come. Don't dog on them yet.

[BlackVVaves]

Of all teams the Heat faced, the Pacers truly had the tools to eliminate them. You have a Top 6-7 center in the league in Hibbert and a productive PF in West, going against a Bosh-less Heat, yet you can't beat Miami down from inside even though the table has been set for you.

Soft, dumb, young. Whatever you want to attribute it to, the Pacers have "it." They'll have a hard time going anywhere as a team with those type of issues running through their team. Their point guards can't even make a simple drop off pass to the post :facepalm

[Punpun]

The Pistons were contenders for a long time without a true superstar.
In an era of super teams, though, it's definitely more difficult to get it done that way.

Ben Wallace was for all purpose a Semi-superstar. Rasheed Wallace just made it so they were a superstar.

[IGotACoolStory]

Hibbert and Granger are barely all-star talents, and Hibbert is one mainly because how bad the center position is. When did 13/9 on less than 50% shooting for a center become an "almost" superstar line?

[JMT]

In my eyes he does. He's severly underrated to me. He only struggles against Lebron really.

You have got to be a Pacers homer. Nobody else in the game sees Granger as a superstar-caliber player. As noted, on a really good, championship level team, he's either a third option or a good scorer off the bench.

And for all the improvement Hibbert has shown, it's delusional to use his name and superstar in the same sentence, unless the sentence is "Hibbert isn't a superstar either".

[Remix]

Did you miss the part about the championship team?

JR Smith could easily be an amazing scorer on a team that would give him the same license to shoot that Granger has, but that doesn't mean that team would go anywhere.
Granger put up 26 a game just a few years ago. I don't understand how anyone could think he could possibly come off the bench when you can count the number of SF's better than him on one hand.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Are you kidding me with this shit?

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Pierce
Iguodala
Deng

are the guys clearly better than him overall.

Arguments can be made for Gay and Gallo.

[Remix]

Are you kidding me with this shit?

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Pierce
Iguodala
Deng

are the guys clearly better than him overall.

Arguments can be made for Gay and Gallo.
I have Lebron, Durant, Melo, Pierce, Gay. Debatable with Iggy and Deng. Gallo? Lol.

And Pierce is getting old as fcuk. He's turning like 35 this year. I expect him to drop off noticeably this year.

[Smoke117]

Danny Granger wasn't even an all star talent last season. He has only been getting worse and worse since he had that 25.7ppg season. Roy Hibbert is certainly no real all star talent. Maybe he could be in the future, but he certainly isn't now. Paul George is young and has potential, but yeah the Pacers just have no real legit stars on their team. You don't really need a "super star" as people are saying, but you do need a star or two and the Pacers don't really have any legit ones at all.

[QuebecBaller]

The Pacers should try to get a scoring near superstar PF or just a better PF. West can't do the job and Granger/George makes good 2a/2b options

I think the only who's available is Blatche :oldlol: :oldlol:

But seriously, Big Al Jefferson is good option. He can score a lot and even if he's not good at defense, Hibbert is there to protect the rim

[Remix]

The Pacers should try to get a scoring superstar PF (or near superstar status). West can't do the job and Granger/George makes good 2a/2b options

I think the only who's available is Blatche :oldlol: :oldlol:
I think the Pacers biggest weakness is a solid point guard.

EDIT: and that doesn't include Hill or Augustin.

[Optimus Prime]

Pacers...unstoppable...what? :facepalm :hammerhead:

They were an above average team that got a depleted Magic team and then played Miami tough. Elite? :coleman:

:kobe:

[JMT]

Granger put up 26 a game just a few years ago. I don't understand how anyone could think he could possibly come off the bench when you can count the number of SF's better than him on one hand.

26 a game on a team going nowhere. Concentrate on that part.

The league is filled with guys that can score on teams going nowhere. It's the guys that can be alpha scorers on talented teams that are superstars. That's not Danny Granger.

[QuebecBaller]

26 a game on a team going nowhere. Concentrate on that part.

The league is filled with guys that can score on teams going nowhere. It's the guys that can be alpha scorers on talented teams that are superstars. That's not Danny Granger.


http://mit.zenfs.com/207/2011/03/klove.jpg
"What do you mean?"

[JMT]

http://mit.zenfs.com/207/2011/03/klove.jpg
"What do you mean?"

Sadly for the "Granger as Superstar" argument, Love not only grabs a ton more rebounds and shoots a higher percentage from the floor, he averages MORE ASSISTS per game than Danny Granger.

[jbryan1984]

They need a leader, its not Granger. They have too many guys who are like superstar sidekicks. They need to package Granger or Hibbert with picks or bench players to acquire a big name.

[AlonzoGOAT]

They had no superstar and end up getting eliminated by a team that had a God.

[eliteballer]

On paper they should be unstoppable right? I just really thought they were gonna do big things last season. Almost elite. Somebody break it down for me. I don't understand what's holding them back. They have good players 1-5, but I don't know who they're 6th man is this coming season. I will admit that I haven't seen them play other than in the playoffs against Miami. None of their games are televised. They were my dark horse team. After Bosh went down I honestly expected them to beat Miami.

You can't see whats holding them back? The lack of a go to superstar.

[chips93]

The played Chicago great the year before but misplayed Miami last year. They thought they could get extra tough with the Heat, having total forgot who Pat Riley was. They were ahead in the series but were surprised when their get tough tactic back fired. They just played their lead the wrong way - otherwise its a 7 game series and they are getting their respect.

the fact that west couldnt punish battier more was really disappointing from indys perspective. he should have been able to kill miami, and force them into playing a more traditional line-up, which would have hurt miami's offense. that was really key

battier did well, but west should have been able to score on him all day, and force miami to adjust

[Crown&Coke]

Larry Bird said it best. S-O-F-T

:eek:

ethered his own team, in the playoffs no less :bowdown:

they are all jumpshooters, thats their biggest hurdle.

If Hibbert can become a go-to guy, they will excel. His post game improved leaps and bounds, and he quit being the perimeter big exclusively. But he still needs to get down on the box 90% of the time instead of the 50 he is at now.

But everyone of them are jumpshooters. Can't win that way unless the man in the paint kills everyone

[Lebron23]

Superstars wins games in the playoffs. Grangers numbers went down in the playoffs.

[PacerRaptor]

This. Replace their starting PG or C with Deron Williams or Dwight Howard and they're legitimate contenders.
I would consider Williams and Howard superstars

[Maniak]

they have no superstar presence and when teams are stacking like the heat and lakers a superstarless team can't be considered elite.

good, but not elite.

[wally_world]

Hibbert and Granger are barely all-star talents, and Hibbert is one mainly because how bad the center position is. When did 13/9 on less than 50% shooting for a center become an "almost" superstar line?

This.

Their defence is near elite but they def need a go-to-scorer (if they dont have a superstar).

[INDI]

On paper they should be unstoppable right? I just really thought they were gonna do big things last season. Almost elite. Somebody break it down for me. I don't understand what's holding them back. They have good players 1-5, but I don't know who they're 6th man is this coming season. I will admit that I haven't seen them play other than in the playoffs against Miami. None of their games are televised. They were my dark horse team. After Bosh went down I honestly expected them to beat Miami.

Granger is a #1 option for non playoff teams. On a championship team his best role would be a 3rd option on a dominant team, or a 2nd option on a very good team. They have no one that can put the team on their back night in and night out so their best chance for winning it is to watch some 04 footage of the pistons (real talk).

[Mr Exlax]

I wish I could've watched more of their games last season. I was for sure once they got David West that they were gonna be scary good. I mean I can agree with them not having a superstar, but I've always thought Granger was gonna come on with it. That year he was an allstar was what I thought was the beginning of him becoming a superstar. He just never really got past that. Hibbert has superstar level talent at his position because there's not that much to go against. I didn't say he was an alltime great level talent lol. I still blame it on coaching for not beating Miami in the playoffs.

[Mr Exlax]

Pacers...unstoppable...what? :facepalm :hammerhead:

They were an above average team that got a depleted Magic team and then played Miami tough. Elite? :coleman:

:kobe:

You might've missed the part about "on paper". I just really really thought they were gonna be tough this season. The addition of David West was gonna seal the deal for them I thought. I know they're young and all that good stuff, but hell age doesn't matter that that much.

[AAckley1]

Honestly, the Pacers problem is that NO ONE can throw a decent post entry pass. That was their true problem with the Heat. Hibbert & West were consistently establishing great positioning on the block and absolutely no one could get them the ball.

Moving into the future, Id love to see PG24 transition from playing the 2 to being used as a stretch 4, considering he's supposedly 6'10 230ish now. Along with that if Stephenson can move into the SG position, he has the scorers mentality that the Paceds are sorely missing.

[qrich]

Someone post the Pacers depth chart? Too lazy to look it up

[Remix]

Someone post the Pacers depth chart? Too lazy to look it up
Last year they ran with

Hill
George
Granger
West
Hibbert

with Collison and Hansborough the only names I remember getting much tick. But Stephenson might get more PT and I think they lost Collison in the offseason and acquired DJ Augustin.

EDIT: They also lost Barbosa (I think) and drafted Plumlee from Duke. And picked up Gerald Green

[PacerRaptor]

Someone post the Pacers depth chart? Too lazy to look it up


Hill/Augustin
George/Hill/Stephenson
Granger/Green
West/Hansbrough/Plumlee
Hibbert/Mahinmi

[jbot]

one thing is they're young. they also need a better backup for hibbert.

[swi7ch]

Very simple---they are not elite because they don't have a superstar.

[FireDavidKahn]

On paper they should be unstoppable right? I just really thought they were gonna do big things last season. Almost elite. Somebody break it down for me. I don't understand what's holding them back. They have good players 1-5, but I don't know who they're 6th man is this coming season. I will admit that I haven't seen them play other than in the playoffs against Miami. None of their games are televised. They were my dark horse team. After Bosh went down I honestly expected them to beat Miami.
They don't have any elite players. They might just have the most balanced 1-5 (aside from the Lakers) but they lack a clear star.

[wpdougie2180]

It's simple when your so called All Star 7'2" big man only scores 30 points (10ppg) in the last 3 games being check by a 6'8 SF no matter who that SF is then your not elite. And as has been said none of your point guards can make a simple entry pass (something NY struggled with also getting the ball to Melo) look what that tactic(fronting the post all playoffs) got Miami against Boston (KG and Rondo destroyed them until Bosh came back). So in summary when you points can't make simple passes your bigs can't take advantage of clear mismatches then your generally not considered elite.

[Dro]

Honestly, the Pacers problem is that NO ONE can throw a decent post entry pass. That was their true problem with the Heat. Hibbert & West were consistently establishing great positioning on the block and absolutely no one could get them the ball.

Moving into the future, Id love to see PG24 transition from playing the 2 to being used as a stretch 4, considering he's supposedly 6'10 230ish now. Along with that if Stephenson can move into the SG position, he has the scorers mentality that the Paceds are sorely missing.This was the problem...The Pacers had enough talent to beat the Heat, but the PG's couldn't get the the big men the ball if their lives depended on it..

[LA Lakers]

They dont have a legitimate superstar. Name me one championship team in the last 30 years with the exception of the 04 Pistons that didnt have at least 1 superstar?

[icewill36]

But Grainger and Hibbert have damn near superstar talent.

lol... granger is the most overrated player in the league

[TheBigVeto]

lol... granger is the most overrated player in the league

LOL dude you're confusing Kobe with Granger.

[therammingman]

pistons were the only team without a true superstar to win a ring in as far back as i can remember. u pretty much need a tier 1 star.

they have many very good guys, but not that star.

[Mr Exlax]

I just figured Granger and Hibbert would be good enough. I didn't get to watch them last season though. THey were my dark horse team. I wonder if Paul George will end up being that superstar.

[InspiredLebowski]

Because they're young. And just not good enough in this era of iso ball. They're not getting a superstar in free agency obviously and clearly aren't drafting one at pick 24+.

I'm cool with waiting/hoping/wishing George (less likely) or Hibbert (much, much more likely though not probable) makes the jump to go to scorer. Don't wanna be, but I gotta be. Franchise couldn't survive a blow it up and hopefully, maybe, if you're lucky, draft a superstar drought. They'd move. Is what it is. I'm cool with trying the whole little engine that could route because right now there's no other alternative.

[Mr Exlax]

I found it! I think they're an elite team now. If Hibbert actually keeps playing this way. Early on in the season he let me down because he was struggling so bad on offense. I always liked Paul George. He actually got a lot better than I expected this fast. Poor Danny Granger lol. 6th man next season though. Gotta be. They were on my NBA League Pass so I really really got to see them this season. Next year again too.

[Screamingdoom]

I can see them going to the finals next season. I don't think they're quite there this season.

[Mr Exlax]

I can see them going to the finals next season. I don't think they're quite there this season.

I totally agree. I don't think they're gonna beat Miami, but I always thought they'd give them the most trouble. Even more trouble than San Antonio. I didn't expect San Antonio to make it to the finals though lol.

[Mr Exlax]

Another good outing from the fellas. Couldn't get it clicking on all cylinders. This is gonna be loads of experience for George though.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

paul george's name not mentioned once on the first page :lol funny how much can change in a year.

[Mr Exlax]

paul george's name not mentioned once on the first page :lol funny how much can change in a year.

To be honest, I've been really high on George for about 2 years. I had no doubt that he would blossom into a really really good player. You would have to know me to know that. The thing that did surprise me is that he's become this good this fast. He got better every season, but this is by far the biggest leap for him.

[AintNoSunshine]

To me they're a healthy Danny Granger type player from becoming elite. They are not yet there despite playing the Heat tough because of match up advantages.