Would a 30 y/o Jerry West, 27 y/o Larry Bird, and 28 y/o Dirk own the 2012 HEAT

[CavaliersFTW]

Clone the Miami Heat roster but instead of the current big 3 insert West/Bird/Dirk on the team all at an equal age. Is the team as good? Is it possibly even better? In a 7 game series, who ya got?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Larry_Bird_1_Lipofsky.jpghttp://hoopedia.nba.com/images/2/20/JerryWest1.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/DirkNowitzki.jpg/220px-DirkNowitzki.jpg

VS

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq62/iancaymo/miami-heat-25.jpg

[iamgine]

I feel that team would be a jump shooting team and not very good defensively so they would not be better without someone anchoring the defense.

I also doubt Jerry West's ability to adapt to modern games straight away.

[Psileas]

A team with 3 of the 5-6 GOAT white players (because I think color has something to do with the question) in their prime and with some decent supporting cast and chemistry could/would beat just about any team in NBA history.

[Vertical-24]

It's actually funny because LeBron is better than all of them. :lol

[oolalaa]

Ball handling would undoubteblly take a hit, and Lebron's defensive versatility is hard to quantify. However, shooting would DRAMATICALLY improve.


Bird's playmaking was more suited to finding big men in the paint, rather than spreading the floor like Bron does (Better than any other forward in history, I'll add). Unfortunatley, Dirk is a perimiter big man. He doesn't spend much time around the basket, and is not an especially good finisher. And the Heat have a pathetic ensemble of centers, too. I don't think he'd rack up as many assists as Lebron (Probably around 4.5/5 per game).

West would basically be a small upgrade on Wade, considering his vastly better shooting ability. He would have to share ball handling duties with Chalmers, though. West's strong point, like just about every other perimiter player of his era, was not his ball handling. I don't know how he would cope with the great perimiter athletes of today harassing him every time he tries to bring the ball up court, especially in crunch time. Chalmers might have to be leaned on heavily to do this, which is far from ideal.

And Dirk is obviosuly an upgrade on Bosh. They aren't too dissimilar in playstyle.


Basically, if you isoed Bird and Dirk on the elbow almost every time they would be really hard to stop. You couldn't double team them, not with West and Bird/Dirk lurking on the 3 point line. They would eat their defender alive. Throw in the occassional slash and kick from West and your good to go. They would undoubtedly win a championship, perhaps in even more dominating fashion than the current Heat squad could. But if they played each other? I'll get back to you....I'm leaning towards the current squad....

[fsvr54]

It's actually funny because LeBron is better than all of them. :lol

:biggums:

Lebron better than Bird? :roll:

[Raz]

It's actually funny because LeBron is better than all of them. :lol

Future negged. Troll.

It would be hard to put three players together that could beat those three. I would rather have McHale over Dirk

[Vertical-24]

Future negged. Troll.

It would be hard to put three players together that could beat those three. I would rather have McHale over Dirk

Sarcasm can't be detected by everyone.
And I'm not a troll, I'm Derrick Rose

[LikeABosh]

They'd get run out of the arena

[CavaliersFTW]

Future negged. Troll.

It would be hard to put three players together that could beat those three. I would rather have McHale over Dirk
McHale would make it too easy because it would make the team far more complete (dominant inside middle and outside...) than the Heat. I wanted to create a similar juggling act of chemistry like the current Heat to keep the playing field even. Nobody on the current Heat has inside game, McHale would murder them if I'd picked him. I mean, who would stop him? Bosh and Joel Anthony would look helpless trying to double him and Bird would have no problem feeding him the ball :lol

[Djahjaga]

Ball handling would undoubteblly take a hit, and Lebron's defensive versatility is hard to quantify. However, shooting would DRAMATICALLY improve.


Bird's playmaking was more suited to finding big men in the paint, rather than spreading the floor like Bron does (Better than any other forward in history, I'll add). Unfortunatley, Dirk is a perimiter big man. He doesn't spend much time around the basket, and is not an especially good finisher. And the Heat have a pathetic ensemble of centers, too. I don't think he'd rack up as many assists as Lebron (Probably around 4.5/5 per game).

West would basically be a small upgrade on Wade, considering his vastly better shooting ability. He would have to share ball handling duties with Chalmers, though. West's strong point, like just about every other perimiter player of his era, was not his ball handling. I don't know how he would cope with the great perimiter athletes of today harassing him every time he tries to bring the ball up court, especially in crunch time. Chalmers might have to be leaned on heavily to do this, which is far from ideal.

And Dirk is obviosuly an upgrade on Bosh. They aren't too dissimilar in playstyle.


Basically, if you isoed Bird and Dirk on the elbow almost every time they would be really hard to stop. You couldn't double team them, not with West and Bird/Dirk lurking on the 3 point line. They would eat their defender alive. Throw in the occassional slash and kick from West and your good to go. They would undoubtedly win a championship, perhaps in even more dominating fashion than the current Heat squad could. But if they played each other? I'll get back to you....I'm leaning towards the current squad....


I think the OP meant to ask which team would win, assuming the rest of the West/Bird/Dirk roster was filled out similarly talent-wise as the Heat was.

Otherwise, good analysis :cheers:

[lilgodfather1]

I'm not sure if they would beat the LeBron/Bosh/Wade Heat, but i'd love to see the game!

I'm just not sure if West/Wade would be a good matchup for West, and I know the LeBron/Bird matchup would go LeBron's way, where as the Dirk/Bosh matchup would go Dirk's way. The role players I assume play the exact same for both teams, and it would come down to if LeBron, and Wade could make West, and Bird shoot under 50%.

Anyways Bird is a top ten player of all time, West a top 15, and Dirk a top 25 so the comparison is flawed. LeBron may be the best player on the floor, but Wade is not better than West was in his time, and Bosh is not better than 34 year old Dirk let alone Prime Dirk.

[poido123]

I'm not sure if they would beat the LeBron/Bosh/Wade Heat, but i'd love to see the game!

I'm just not sure if West/Wade would be a good matchup for West, and I know the LeBron/Bird matchup would go LeBron's way, where as the Dirk/Bosh matchup would go Dirk's way. The role players I assume play the exact same for both teams, and it would come down to if LeBron, and Wade could make West, and Bird shoot under 50%.

Anyways Bird is a top ten player of all time, West a top 15, and Dirk a top 25 so the comparison is flawed. LeBron may be the best player on the floor, but Wade is not better than West was in his time, and Bosh is not better than 34 year old Dirk let alone Prime Dirk.

:facepalm Not sure if serious? You do realise Bird is in the top 7 of all time. Lebron is not on Bird's level just yet, and I doubt he will ever be.

[lilgodfather1]

:facepalm Not sure if serious? You do realise Bird is in the top 7 of all time. Lebron is not on Bird's level just yet, and I doubt he will ever be.
LeBron can actually guard Bird, while Bird wouldn't be able to guard LeBron effectively.

Edit: And for the record believe it or not basketball is not played just on offense. Larry was a good offensive player, but defensively...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

West>Wade
Bird<Lebron
Dirk>Bosh

so yeah probably. idk about "own" though.

[TerranOP]

I don't understand the point of this question.

Prime Dirk is better than prime Bosh. Prime West is better than prime Wade. Bron's career isn't over yet, but even if we say Bird = LeBron then this is still no contest. This should be pretty obvious.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The Heat starters would be much more likely to get stops than their legend counterparts. Especially when it comes to the small forwards. Bird had a greater career than James has so far but this is the difference between a team game of 5-on-5 and the more individualized 3-on-3. Bird's unstoppable but James could stay in front of him and challenge the shot. James is going to beat him off the dribble every time and when that happens the dunk is coming. Neither team has a shotblocking center and you can't double 3-on-3. The Heat win outright even though the Legends would be able to score almost at will.

[BoutPractice]

It's not all about match ups.

Clearly this team would instantly become arguably the best offensive lineup ever - with 3 great shooters who can create their own opportunities and fantastic ball movement, it would be almost impossible to prevent them from scoring.

However they would suffer defensively, particularly against LeBron.
They definitely could win, but I think they would need to play a smart zone that compensates for their athletic disadvantage.

[raprap]

Wade vs West is a wash. Wade will dominate him on both ends of the court.

LeBron vs Bird is interesting. Can Bird really defend LBJ on single coverage? I don't think so.

Bosh vs Dirk will more likely be a tie. But ill give Dirk the advantage.


Miami wins.

[Papaya Petee]

Can you imagine Bird guarding LeBron and West guarding Wade? Cause I know I can't.

[CavaliersFTW]

Can you imagine Bird guarding LeBron and West guarding Wade? Cause I know I can't.
West is an elite wing defender with fast hands, he can guard Wade. Could probably get a few steals and blocks against him. Obviously Wade would do the same to him too.

[jongib369]

I'd LOVE to see a bunch of todays NBA players play under the rules of the 60's in a pick up game...Ref's calling it the EXACT same way as it was then...PLUS having to wear these bad boys


http://fencepostfilosopher.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/chuck-taylors.jpg%3Fw%3D470


http://oi45.tinypic.com/1jlvea.jpg

It'd be a great game but The Bird/West/Dirk team would win... Great post I love what if's like these

:applause:

[And 1]

Never understood how you could directly compare the game from players back in the 60's to now.

Maybe I'm just not thinking outside the box.

Can someone explain? (Seriously, it'd be great to know) :cheers:

[dude77]

Larry was a good offensive player, but defensively...

yeah .. continue .. but defensively what .. you gotta finish that so you can make yourself look as dumb as possible

[CavaliersFTW]

Never understood how you could directly compare the game from players back in the 60's to now.

Maybe I'm just not thinking outside the box.

Can someone explain? (Seriously, it'd be great to know) :cheers:
Simple. Learn about the players, learn about which rules changed/when/why - study their game film - formulate an opinion.

[swi7ch]

Duh.

[koolkid09]

Lebron>Bird
Wade>West
Bosh<Dirk

But hey... Since OP decided not to add players to Bird's team. I'm going to go with Brons team. Since you know... they actually have a team.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Actually.

They wouldn't....I mean they're just not a great fit, too perimiter heavy.

Oscar instead of West and they would.

[DMAVS41]

Wade vs West is a wash. Wade will dominate him on both ends of the court.

LeBron vs Bird is interesting. Can Bird really defend LBJ on single coverage? I don't think so.

Bosh vs Dirk will more likely be a tie. But ill give Dirk the advantage.


Miami wins.

WTF are you on? Prime Dirk vs Bosh is a tie? Laughable....

[lilgodfather1]

yeah .. continue .. but defensively what .. you gotta finish that so you can make yourself look as dumb as possible
Wow you must have been 6 when Bird played because the nestalgia is strong with you. I remember my first christmas like it was yesterday, is that what it's like for you and Bird? Bird's defense was... terrible because he lacked lateral quickness. He routinely guarded the worst forward for a reason.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wow you must have been 6 when Bird played because the nestalgia is strong with you. I remember my first christmas like it was yesterday, is that what it's like for you and Bird? Bird's defense was... terrible because he lacked lateral quickness. He routinely guarded the worst forward for a reason.
:facepalm

[Mach_3]

Wow you must have been 6 when Bird played because the nestalgia is strong with you. I remember my first christmas like it was yesterday, is that what it's like for you and Bird? Bird's defense was... terrible because he lacked lateral quickness. He routinely guarded the worst forward for a reason.

Please stop posting :facepalm

[TheBigVeto]

Wow you must have been 6 when Bird played because the nestalgia is strong with you. I remember my first christmas like it was yesterday, is that what it's like for you and Bird? Bird's defense was... terrible because he lacked lateral quickness. He routinely guarded the worst forward for a reason.


http://oi53.tinypic.com/34rtwyh.jpg

[lilgodfather1]

:facepalm
Prove me otherwise. I'll wait...

[Clippersfan86]

Nobody is factoring in clutch, killer instinct.. competitiveness... toughness etc? Bird would demolish Lebron. Not because Lebron isn't more gifted but because he was a mean son of a bitch who had a will that Lebron can't match. Bird may not have been a great defender but a bad one? Bullshit. He was a very "solid" and scrappy defender and he's more than big enough for his position to not get manhandled by Lebron. You guys seem to be forgetting that Bird was 6'9 230, much bigger than the SF's Lebron is matched up with now outside of maybe Danny Granger, Luol Deng.

People saying Lebron would be the best player on the floor don't seem to realize how good Bird was. Bird is in most people's top 5 all time and if you look at stats in their prime Bird definitely matches up well with Lebron.

West and Wade would be an epic and equally matched battle skill wise but I'd have to give the edge to Wade simply due to his strength and athleticism advantages to go with his explosiveness.

Bird>Lebron
West<Wade
Dirk>Bosh

I got the made up big 3 beating Miami's in 6.

[dude77]

Wow you must have been 6 when Bird played because the nestalgia is strong with you. I remember my first christmas like it was yesterday, is that what it's like for you and Bird? Bird's defense was... terrible because he lacked lateral quickness. He routinely guarded the worst forward for a reason.

:facepalm keep going .. it's entertainment watching you make a dumbass out of yourself ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4B6TFAe8YQ

[Rubio2Gasol]

Well I'm just saying Finals 2012 Bron.

He finally started to figure out that you need to attack and use your strengths to make defenses adjust to him.Once he continues in that vein his presence inside opens up space for Miami.

Dirk can possibly do that but I'm not sure about O7.

I don't think Bird can neccessarily do that , was Mchales job.

[CavaliersFTW]

:facepalm keep going .. it's entertainment watching you make a dumbass out of yourself ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4B6TFAe8YQ
"b-b-b-b-but lateral movement!" :oldlol:

[creepingdeath]

So wait a minute. Dirk beat the Heat without Larry Legend and the Logo. How would he not beat the Heatles WITH those guys? :lol

[longtime lurker]

Is this a serious question? The Heat couldn't handle a big 3 of Dirk, Jason Terry and Tyson Chandler :roll:

[lilgodfather1]

:facepalm keep going .. it's entertainment watching you make a dumbass out of yourself ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4B6TFAe8YQ
So some guys opinion, a few examples, and the fact that he got some steals makes him a good defender? Great I guess AI is a great defender too then. Maybe terrible wasn't quite the word I was looking for (average might be better), but he certainly was not a good defender, and he wouldn't be able to check LeBron 1 on 1. LeBron would beast in this game because the Heat have no defensive anchor, and you can't double him.

[TheBigVeto]

So wait a minute. Dirk beat the Heat without Larry Legend and the Logo. How would he not beat the Heatles WITH those guys? :lol

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Best comment in this thread.

/thread

[colts19]

Legend > Labron
Logo > LaFlop
Dirk > Bosh

WHAT WAS THE QUESTION AGAIN.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[abuC]

So wait a minute. Dirk beat the Heat without Larry Legend and the Logo. How would he not beat the Heatles WITH those guys? :lol


LeBron in 2010-2011 is not the same guy in 2011-2012.

[longtime lurker]

So wait a minute. Dirk beat the Heat without Larry Legend and the Logo. How would he not beat the Heatles WITH those guys? :lol

This should just be the response to everyone that picks the Miami Heat big 3

[dude77]

bird and co. would break them down mentally and make lebron and his bitches quit

[King Crossover]

Current Big 3 would rape.

Dirk don't got any interior presence like Tyson to save him on that side of the ball. He should beat Bosh tho
Bird would bet raped by Bron
West is pretty much a poor man's JJ Redick in the modern era :oldlol:

[Pushxx]

Considering what Rondo, Pierce on one knee, and a 36-year old KG can do to the Heat, I'm sure Bird, Dirk, and West would take a steaming hot pile of shit on the Heat's chest.

It would be an embarrassment. I'll take the team with Larry ****in' Bird. You kids need to learn about Larry Bird...you must be crazy if you think Larry couldn't dominate today's NBA.

[RaininTwos]

Future negged. Troll.

It would be hard to put three players together that could beat those three. I would rather have McHale over Dirk
Sarcastic or not, that's not really that blasphemous. You need to chill.

To answer the question, that team would be way worse defensively.

Flat out awful.

[KingBeasley08]

Considering what Rondo, Pierce on one knee, and a 36-year old KG can do to the Heat, I'm sure Bird, Dirk, and West would take a steaming hot pile of shit on the Heat's chest.

It would be an embarrassment. I'll take the team with Larry ****in' Bird. You kids need to learn about Larry Bird...you must be crazy if you think Larry couldn't dominate today's NBA.
That Celtics team were doing aite against a team with lebron and a one-legged wade (no bosh). Don't mean nothing

[RaininTwos]

Bird isn't beating Lebron in shit. You guys are simply delusional. People always resort to intangibles when they don't have a clear cut case. Bird's a greater player due to a more accomplished resume, I understand that, but as a basketball player, he's not going to be able to guard Lebron.

Bottom line.

Smarts and skill take you only so far, Lebron is just going to abuse Bird on the wing. This guy just abused KD and Thabo plus others but I'm supposed to believe that Bird is going to slow Lebron down???

Bird was hidden on defense, which is why you saw Mchale guarding the people that would expose him.

Now in this scenario we have two players, Bird and Dirk that are used to guarding the easiest big available. With that option gone, expect Bron to do work.

[colts19]

Bird isn't beating Lebron in shit. You guys are simply delusional. People always resort to intangibles when they don't have a clear cut case. Bird's a greater player due to a more accomplished resume, I understand that, but as a basketball player, he's not going to be able to guard Lebron.

Bottom line.

Smarts and skill take you only so far, Lebron is just going to abuse Bird on the wing. This guy just abused KD and Thabo plus others but I'm supposed to believe that Bird is going to slow Lebron down???

Bird was hidden on defense, which is why you saw Mchale guarding the people that would expose him.

Now in this scenario we have two players, Bird and Dirk that are used to guarding the easiest big available. With that option gone, expect Bron to do work.
You don't think Larry Legend is going to abuse Lebron. Legend was master of the head fake and the 1/4 inch. He would give you a head or body fake and you didn't have to jump he just needed to get that 1/4 inch movement and he had the space he needed to score.:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Pushxx]

Anybody who thinks prime Bird would ever get dominated by any SF in the game of basketball is clueless or biased.

[RaininTwos]

You don't think Larry Legend is going to abuse Lebron. Legend was master of the head fake and the 1/4 inch. He would give you a head or body fake and you didn't have to jump he just needed to get that 1/4 inch movement and he had the space he needed to score.:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Where do see me saying that Bird won't be able to score?

I swear you two simply refuse to take statements at face value.

[Legends66NBA7]

Bird isn't beating Lebron in shit.

He's beating him in rebounding.

[RaininTwos]

He's beating him in rebounding.
and assists, FG%,3PT%,FT%,championships,etc...right?

I'm not even going off percentages or stats here, I'm looking at the way they play and where they play on the floor. The rebounding difference will be minimal because Bron will be camping out on the perimeter. I think there will be stretches where bird will go off on him but Bird is going to get lit up defensively.

[Mach_3]

and assists, FG%,3PT%,FT%,championships,etc...right?

Bird was a better rebounder, playmaker, passer and imo a better overall offensive player. He was also better playing the passing lanes and stripping players who left the ball exposed.

It ain't a huge gap but there's a gap between those two

[Legends66NBA7]

and assists, FG%,3PT%,FT%,championships,etc...right?

Everything else will be a wash to me, except for:

Shooting and Rebounding - Bird

Defense - LeBron

So I just disagree with Bird not beating LeBron in shit.

And what about championships ? I never would bring that up if were talking just about their playing styles.


I'm not even going off percentages or stats here, I'm looking at the way they play and where they play on the floor. The rebounding difference will be minimal because Bron will be camping out on the perimeter. I think there will be stretches where bird will go off on him but Bird is going to get lit up defensively.

Same. I also have to keep in mind that Bird had to rebound vs his teammates of Robert Parish and Kevin McHale for many years. Maxwell before that too. So I think he would out rebound LeBron and Bosh in the post.

Neither Bird or LeBron are going to contain each other, but I do think LeBron will have better chance at stopping Bird on defense.

It's Bird's fundamentally sound skills and shooting vs LeBron's athletic game and physically impose and drive by players.

[iamgine]

In order for the legends to win, they'd have to improve the way they play.

First, Jerry West have to vastly improve his ball handling and adapt to the modern games.

Second, either Larry or Dirk has to post up consistently. A jump shooting team is not going to make it against Miami. They need balanced attack.

Third, they need to get better defensively. Tyson Chandler was absolutely crucial in Mavs 2011 win. Get an anchoring center or play really smart zone.

Without these three, I don't see how they could win consistently.

[CavaliersFTW]

People are focusing on Lebron vs Bird but what about when the 4th quarter rolls around and it boils down to LeChoke vs Mr. Clutch?

http://youtu.be/gSh611WHhh4

http://youtu.be/CfJC_GnBMpo

:lol

[Lebron23]

People are focusing on Lebron vs Bird but what about when the 4th quarter rolls around and it boils down to LeChoke vs Mr. Clutch?

http://youtu.be/gSh611WHhh4

http://youtu.be/CfJC_GnBMpo

:lol

LBJ led the NBA in 4th quarter scoring from 2007-2010.

[CavaliersFTW]

LBJ led the NBA in 4th quarter scoring from 2007-2010.
In the final seconds of a game who's likeliest to deliver a dagger Jerry West or Lebron James?

[RaininTwos]

Legends I was being facetious.:lol

Bird is a better shooter and has better rebounding averages, I'll give him that.

I've always said that Bird was flashier passer than Bron but both are extremely effective. I know that people are going to kill me for putting them at the same level, but whatever.

Defense is the back breaker for me though. If you can't guard your man, and there is no way to hide him on defense, he's a sitting duck..the pressure is on Bird to play defense through offense and match the production of a greater scorer in Lebron.

In a seven game series, I just don't see that being favorable to Bird. He'll get his numbers, no doubt. I'm not saying that Lebron will lock him up, but he will not be as efficient as normal. You can look at Lebron's defense against other extremely skilled SF's like Pierce and Melo, (Someone is going to laugh at this) just to get a gauge for what it would be like. Obviously bird is better than those two.

We've just seen Lebron destroy Pierce,Pietrus,Granger,Melo,Durant this post-season and I'm willing to bet that Bird isn't anywhere near as good defensively as some of those names. Some.

I think Dirk will have the slight advantage over Bosh as usually unless he's on feugo and hitting everything. Bosh might even get the best of him in a couple games, who knows? They both have the similar styles of play but Bosh is better at rim protecting but Dirk has quick hands. Could be anywhere from Bosh being slightly better to Dirk going into God Mode and dropping 30 every night.

I honestly can't compare West and Wade. My gut is telling me that Wade is going to play lackadaisical and West will make him pay for it. It honestly depends on what Wade is playing, sometimes Wade will play so lazy out there and other times he doesn't want the other team to score another point, he'll play some prime Ron Artest defense.

I'm going with the Heat team because they have figured out how to play with one another and are way better defensively. Unless Bird's team has Gary Payton at point and Ben Wallace at center or some players like that because they are looking atrocious defensively.

[Alan Shore]

west played in an era of fewer teams so the talent pool was far more concentrated and the competition far more skilled and polished. bird played in the game's greatest era and before the last expansion where the talent pool is even more diluted.

west made others around him better and was as great a shooter as the league has ever known. at only 6'2" he would be at a disadvantage but you would never be able to leave him alone for a second. not only that but he could shoot off the dribble which is a lost skill but so valuable in a pick and roll game.

bird made others around him better and was as great a shooter as the legue has ever known. he is also arguably the fiercest competitor along with jordan and also cluuutch.

the heat derive success from forcing turnovers on defense while they struggle in the halfcourt offensively. much of this has to do with their collective lack of consistent shooting from midrange and beyond. but even though they have won a title they still suffer from a decided lack of chemistry that they mask with forcing turnovers and scoring on fast breaks.

also-- and this can't be overlooked-- what do lebron and wade look like as players when you start calling palming and traveling? i'll tell you: their one on one games practically disappear.

dirk and bird are superior drawers of fouls so there would be a parade to the charity stripe every period, while they also are not known to turn the ball over. this would take away the heat's fast break opportunities while also breaking their spirit because both dirk and bird could make shots against anyone at any time.

when wade and lebron set their minds to it they play fantastic defense but crisp passing always beats defensive rotations and all three players west, bird, and dirk were vey adept at moving the ball to find the open man.

i can't envision how the heat of 2012 could beat a team that had a core of bird, dirk, and west.

[IGOTGAME]

I really don't think Lebron can guard Bird either. Also, bird wouldn't g guard him.

[RaininTwos]

I really don't think Lebron can guard Bird either. Also, bird wouldn't g guard him.
Who's Bird guarding?

Who's Dirk Guarding?

[IGOTGAME]

Who's Bird guarding?

Who's Dirk Guarding?
There are 2 players not mentioned on this team. Plus they are all team players and would have no problem coming off the bench if needed.

[CavaliersFTW]

west played in an era of fewer teams so the talent pool was far more concentrated and the competition far more skilled and polished. bird played in the game's greatest era and before the last expansion where the talent pool is even more diluted.

west made others around him better and was as great a shooter as the league has ever known. at only 6'2" he would be at a disadvantage but you would never be able to leave him alone for a second. not only that but he could shoot off the dribble which is a lost skill but so valuable in a pick and roll game.

bird made others around him better and was as great a shooter as the legue has ever known. he is also arguably the fiercest competitor along with jordan and also cluuutch.

the heat derive success from forcing turnovers on defense while they struggle in the halfcourt offensively. much of this has to do with their collective lack of consistent shooting from midrange and beyond. but even though they have won a title they still suffer from a decided lack of chemistry that they mask with forcing turnovers and scoring on fast breaks.

also-- and this can't be overlooked-- what do lebron and wade look like as players when you start calling palming and traveling? i'll tell you: their one on one games practically disappear.

dirk and bird are superior drawers of fouls so there would be a parade to the charity stripe every period, while they also are not known to turn the ball over. this would take away the heat's fast break opportunities while also breaking their spirit because both dirk and bird could make shots against anyone at any time.

when wade and lebron set their minds to it they play fantastic defense but crisp passing always beats defensive rotations and all three players west, bird, and dirk were vey adept at moving the ball to find the open man.

i can't envision how the heat of 2012 could beat a team that had a core of bird, dirk, and west.

Jerry West:
"I'm actually slightly over 6-4 in my bare feet"
6-9 wingspan

Dwyane Wade:
6-3.75 barefoot
6-10.25 wingspan

Kobe Bryant:
6-4.75 barefoot
6-11 wingspan

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2012/writers/sam_amick/02/08/jerry.west.qa/jerry-west.jpg

http://cbsla.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/96400401.jpg

Wests list height confuses a lot of people because it was so grossly underrated - cause technically he isn't even undersized - at all. At 70 years old he's still lookin Dwyane Wade straight in the eye :lol

[longtime lurker]

Bird is an absolute killer! He'll keep coming and coming at you. He'll talk trash, take cheap shots get in your head. He isn't on some Kevin Durant nice guy shit. If Jason Terry and Marion got in Lebron's head just imagine what Bird would do lol and I haven't even mentioned how Jerry West and Dirk would absolutely kill the Heat.

[Brunch@Five]

I can't believe someone said "smarts and skill only take you this far" in reference to Larry Bird. #1, Bird's athleticism is vastly underrated, #2 he is the smartest and most skilled player ever.

Also, people tend to forget that Bird played PF for the first 5 seasons and was a great rebounder and post player, offensively AND defensively.

[raprap]

WTF are you on? Prime Dirk vs Bosh is a tie? Laughable....
Can't take others opinions eh? You must have no life.

[Brunch@Five]

Can't take others opinions eh? You must have no life.

it's not a legit opinion though. Dirk clearly is the superior player. Dirk is a F-MVP, MVP, championship-winning superstar, Chris Bosh is an All-Star. They are simply not on the same tier.

[LeBird]

Is this a joke? A sweep for the white boys - 5 games at worst. Dirk himself beat the Miami trio; are you telling me with Bird and West he loses? Some people here honestly need to stay away from the drugs.

[DonDadda59]

All on the same team? They would absolutely smoke the Heat (assuming they had a solid defensive center ala Tyson Chandler). A past prime Dirk alone clowned them just last year. Now you're asking if he's in his prime and matched up with not one but TWO bonafide all time greats/basketball geniuses would he be able to do it again?

The answer is a resounding yes.

[noosaman]

a 32 year old Dirk took a giant shit on the 2011 heat which was a much better team than the 2012 version, so think about it...

[INDI]

Add in John Stockton and a healthy Yao ( two other nba greats that are not black ). That would be a lineup that could win at least 7 titles in today's game.

Stockton - would average 14 asts, and toughness

West- very good defender, would average around 22 on this team

Bird- 3's galore, lead the team and tied with west for top 5 most clutch ever

Nowitzki- would average in the high teens, would be a 3rd option on this team

Yao- is the most interesting, he has the skill to be a top 5 number one option doesn't have the stamina to match. IMO if the team is not struggling to score I would focus his efforts on Defense with occasional plays run for him.



That would be a great team imo

[KOBE143]

White team easily..

LOL at Bird cant guard Lebrick..:facepalm If 90 year old Jason Kidd can guard him.. why not Bird? Whom I think was very underrated defender in the post and we all know Lebrick has no post game.. In the other hand, Bird will destroy him in the post..

West > Wade - West was one of toughest player of all time while Wade is one of the pussiest player in the league..

Dirk >>> Bosh - No need to elaborate..

[ILLsmak]

to recap, Wade is a better talent than Jerry West.

-Smak

[DaHeezy]

West>Wade
Bird<Lebron
Dirk>Bosh

so yeah probably. idk about "own" though.


Those formula don't mean anything

It all depends on supporting cast and coaching. Any trio can beat any trio with the right pieces and direction.

[arifgokcen]

West>Wade
Bird<Lebron
Dirk>Bosh

so yeah probably. idk about "own" though.


Those formula don't mean anything

It all depends on supporting cast and coaching. Any trio can beat any trio with the right pieces and direction.

Both arguments have valid points.


Though lebron-bird is a fantastic matchup bird would get murdered on defensive end.Thats if lebron plays the way he can(for lebron haters who is saying if the likes of barea and kidd can defend him bird definitely can)

[jongib369]

Both arguments have valid points.


Though lebron-bird is a fantastic matchup bird would get murdered on defensive end.Thats if lebron plays the way he can(for lebron haters who is saying if the likes of barea and kidd can defend him bird definitely can)
Bird would end up punching him in the throat...Lebron is a BEAST but I can not stand shit like this from any player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIkBjuVGbb4

[MavsSuperFan]

LeBron in 2010-2011 is not the same guy in 2011-2012.

ya but hasnt wade regressed also

[Duncan21formvp]

A team with 3 of the 5-6 GOAT white players (because I think color has something to do with the question) in their prime and with some decent supporting cast and chemistry could/would beat just about any team in NBA history.
An older Dirk in 2011 owned the 2011 Heat who were better than the 2012 Heat.

[lilgodfather1]

Clone the Miami Heat roster but instead of the current big 3 insert West/Bird/Dirk on the team all at an equal age. Is the team as good? Is it possibly even better? In a 7 game series, who ya got?

Do some people not know how to read the first words in a thread? What are we talking about a rim protecting C like Tyson Chandler for when the OP clearly states the roster would be the 2012 Heat -LeBron/Wade/Bosh, and +West/Bird/Dirk. In other words Mario Chalmers, Battier, Anthony, Miller, etc...

This matchup means that either Joel Anthony, Larry Bird, or Dirk Nowitzki is going to be guarding LeBron, and all three have obvious disadvantages against him. LeBron's going to dominate this series getting to the rim at will.

40/10/6 on 60% shooting sounds a little low on what he would average. Maybe 45/10/6 on 70%. Dude's getting layups and dunks all game.

[Brunch@Five]

Do some people not know how to read the first words in a thread? What are we talking about a rim protecting C like Tyson Chandler for when the OP clearly states the roster would be the 2012 Heat -LeBron/Wade/Bosh, and +West/Bird/Dirk. In other words Mario Chalmers, Battier, Anthony, Miller, etc...

This matchup means that either Joel Anthony, Larry Bird, or Dirk Nowitzki is going to be guarding LeBron, and all three have obvious disadvantages against him. LeBron's going to dominate this series getting to the rim at will.

40/10/6 on 60% shooting sounds a little low on what he would average. Maybe 45/10/6 on 70%. Dude's getting layups and dunks all game.

Play West, Battier, Bird, Dirk, Anthony. West on Wade, Battier on Bron, Dirk on Bosh, Bird roaming and Anthony protecting the rim. Easy, and Bird can defend where he's best at.

[kenny817]

Well...since Dirk + no all stars completely demolished Miami...I'm going to assume that adding Bird (one of the GOAT's) and Jerry West...Miami will probably get swept

[lilgodfather1]

Play West, Battier, Bird, Dirk, Anthony. West on Wade, Battier on Bron, Dirk on Bosh, Bird roaming and Anthony protecting the rim. Easy, and Bird can defend where he's best at.
The 2012 Heat counter that line up with

PG: LeBron
SG: Wade
SF: Miller
PF: Battier
C: Bosh

good luck...

[Cali Syndicate]

Terry, Marion and Dirk beat them in 11 all at the ages of 32 or 33.

Just sayin'

[RRR3]

In the final seconds of a game who's likeliest to deliver a dagger Jerry West or Lebron James?
Lebron Actually won fmvp and a ring at the same
Time.
West is like 1-10 in finals and only won because of wilt. Clutch :lol

[RRR3]

Terry, Marion and Dirk beat them in 11 all at the ages of 32 or 33.

Just sayin'
Only Bcause lebron turned into Andre Iguodala.

[alleykat]

Forget all this top 10 crap showing who would win....

You're asking who would win not which is the better team....this is all about matchups. This would be a great offensive shooting team, but defense is the key here. You kind of made this team a glass cannon here, and its shooting ability would be its main advantage. However this team cannot possibly guard the heat. Body size and athleticism is a huge advantage for the heat, and the heat's defense will allow for a couple of misses.

Not a very good matchup. This team is an offensive dream but it will obviously lose on the defensive end. They better hope they don't miss a shot

[alleykat]

West is an elite wing defender with fast hands, he can guard Wade. Could probably get a few steals and blocks against him. Obviously Wade would do the same to him too.

Not against elite ball handlers who could create their own shot easily in isolation....

He can harass him, not stop him.

[scm5]

Dirk beat the Heat w/ Jason Terry and Shawn Marion.

I think if he had Jerry West and Larry Bird replacing those two, he would have a much easier time.

[alleykat]

Dirk beat the Heat w/ Jason Terry and Shawn Marion.

I think if he had Jerry West and Larry Bird replacing those two, he would have a much easier time.

Nope dirk beat heat with Tyson chandler, the key to the stops that series and clogging the lane....

The heat 3 depend upon going to the rim, and without someone to clog the lane it's a no win

[pauk]

West>Wade
Bird<Lebron
Dirk>Bosh

so yeah probably. idk about "own" though.

This.

[longtime lurker]

Lebron Actually won fmvp and a ring at the same
Time.
West is like 1-10 in finals and only won because of wilt. Clutch :lol

Gtfoh. West has been to the finals 11 times where as Lebron has been sent home early. West's finals losses aren't directly indicitive of his play where as we know for sure Lebron's poor play is directly responsible for at least 1 finals loss. The man earned the name Mr. Clutch

[RRR3]

Gtfoh. West has been to the finals 11 times where as Lebron has been sent home early. West's finals losses aren't directly indicitive of his play where as we know for sure Lebron's poor play is directly responsible for at least 1 finals loss. The man earned the name Mr. Clutch
Troll statements get troll answers; I wasn't being serious, calm down.

[King Crossover]

Gtfoh. West has been to the finals 11 times where as Lebron has been sent home early. West's finals losses aren't directly indicitive of his play where as we know for sure Lebron's poor play is directly responsible for at least 1 finals loss. The man earned the name Mr. Clutch
there were like 14 teams back then. getting to the finals was also much easier

[kentatm]

Wade vs West is a wash. Wade will dominate him on both ends of the court.

LeBron vs Bird is interesting. Can Bird really defend LBJ on single coverage? I don't think so.

Bosh vs Dirk will more likely be a tie. But ill give Dirk the advantage.


Miami wins.


two things

#1 you obviously don't know what the phrase "it's a wash" means when you say Wade/West is a wash and follow it up with Wade would dominate on both ends.

It's a wash = they cancel eachother out


#2 :roll: at saying Bosh is a tie with prime Dirk. He couldn't even stop old ass Dirk from doing whatever he wanted.

[kentatm]

Add in John Stockton and a healthy Yao ( two other nba greats that are not black ). That would be a lineup that could win at least 7 titles in today's game.

Stockton - would average 14 asts, and toughness

West- very good defender, would average around 22 on this team

Bird- 3's galore, lead the team and tied with west for top 5 most clutch ever

Nowitzki- would average in the high teens, would be a 3rd option on this team

Yao- is the most interesting, he has the skill to be a top 5 number one option doesn't have the stamina to match. IMO if the team is not struggling to score I would focus his efforts on Defense with occasional plays run for him.



That would be a great team imo


if we are making an all cracker team I'm dumping Yao for prime Bill Walton and backing him up with prime Sabonis.

[CavaliersFTW]

if we are making an all cracker team I'm dumping Yao for prime Bill Walton and backing him up with prime Sabonis.
While your at it add Stockton at PG backed up by Nash, put Rick Barry as backup SF and Pistol as backup 2 guard. Manu 6th man, and McHale the low-post option PF for when Dirk isn't the right matchup.

That's as good a team as any I guess :lol