Scottie Pippen vs. Larry Bird rebounding%

[97 bulls]

In anothher thread a discussion arose as to who was the better rebounder between Pippen and Bird.

1987 Lakers (the poster not the team) claimed Bird was the better rebounder based on percentage. I felt they were about even based on where they played on the court. So I decided to do an in depth look into both teams starters rebound% to see the difference between the two teams and players. Or simply put , what percentage of the available rebounds were the other starters taking from the two

One more thing, I eliminated thhe first few seasons of Bird up to 85 because he was the PF. Cedric Maxwell was the Celtics SF from 85 and before. I only want to to compare the seasons of the two as SFs. And in their primes.

Birds reboundiing percentage as a SF from 86-90 (excluding 89 due to injury)

1986 14, the other starters added together 40

1987 13, the other starters added together 40

1988 14, the other starters added together 39

1990 13, the other starters added together 46

Pippens
1991 12, the other starters added together 43

1992 12, the other starters added together 44

1993 12, the other starters added together 39

1994 13, the other starters added together 42

1996 10, the other starters added together 55

1997 10, the other starters added together 54 (the seasons Pippens percentage dropped to 10, was mainly due to Rodman joining the team).


Bird on avg over his seasons had a rebound% of 14. Pippen had an avg of 11. But their teams? The other four Bulls starters had an avg of 46%. The other four Celtics starters were only 41.

So Pippen had better rebounders on his team. Which is why his percentage was lower. And you have to factor in that Pippen played farther away from the basket than Bird did. Which could easily sway the argument in Pippens favor as far as rebounding.

Either way its clear theyre at least even where rebounding is concerned. With a slight edge to Pippen when all things are considered.

[dgaras]

yeah. not biased at all :biggums:

[Round Mound]

Bird in the 1981 Finals vs Moses Malone: 15.3 RPG :confusedshrug:

[TheBigVeto]

You are responding to a person who thinks 97 Bulls is GOAT team.

Just move on. Agenda is clear.

[Pushxx]

Lol this guy has been the biggest Bird hater on this forum.

There is thread a few months ago where he literally said Gerald Green would beat Larry Bird in one-on-one. I swear it. OP actually said that and stuck by it.

[97 bulls]

Numbers are there in black and white. There is no bias. Only facts. Check them out yourself if you dont believe me.

[Sarcastic]

Bird in the 1981 Finals vs Moses Malone: 15.3 RPG :confusedshrug:

That's like saying Pippen went up against Ewing. :facepalm

[97 bulls]

Lol this guy has been the biggest Bird hater on this forum.

There is thread a few months ago where he literally said Gerald Green would beat Larry Bird in one-on-one. I swear it. OP actually said that and stuck by it.
One on on e is a totally different part of basketball as opposed to an organized team game. Im sure youd be shocked at how often scrubs beat starters one on one in practice. Theres a reason the NBA wont give us a one on one competiton in the allstar game. Its because they dont want a Geral Green type player beating a Larry Bird type player. Birds game isnt one on one

[97 bulls]

Bird in the 1981 Finals vs Moses Malone: 15.3 RPG :confusedshrug:
Im not saying Birds not a great rebounder for his position. Hes just not head and shoulders above Scottie Pippen as 87 Lakers stated.

[1987_Lakers]

Pippen played with better rebounders? Not even close. Maybe so in '96-'98 because of Rodman, but Pippen at that point was only putting up 6.5 RPG.

Do you not know the rebounders Bird had to play with? Especially in 1986 where he played with Parish, McHale, & Walton and he still managed to average close to 10 RPG.

[andgar923]

Pippen played with better rebounders? Not even close. Maybe so in '96-'98 because of Rodman, but Pippen at that point was only putting up 6.5 RPG.

Do you not know the rebounders Bird had to play with? Especially in 1986 where he played with Parish, McHale, & Walton and he still managed to average close to 10 RPG.
That's what I was bout to say.

Bird played with 2-3 great big men for most of his career.

[Round Mound]

That's like saying Pippen went up against Ewing. :facepalm

Just Mention one of the Players There Was to Battle for Rebounds

But Come On 15.3 RPG in a Finals Series for a SF is Big Time Great.

Pippen was Never a Better Rebounder than Bird. Ever

[1987_Lakers]

Numbers are there in black and white. There is no bias. Only facts. Check them out yourself if you dont believe me.

Your stat is flawed.

You didn't include the bench players rebounding numbers. This is huge because Walton playing with Bird nearly averaged 7 rpg off the bench in '86.

McHale pretty much spend his last 4 seasons on the bench and he was averaging around 6-8 rpg playing with Bird.

TRB% doesn't lie. Bird's is higher, maybe he grabbed more rebounds at a higher rate because he was a better rebounder, not because he played with weaker rebounders.

[Sarcastic]

Just Mention one of the Players There Was to Battle for Rebounds

But Come On 15.3 RPG in a Finals Series for a SF is Big Time Great.

Pippen was Never a Better Rebounder than Bird. Ever

I didn't say he was, but saying Bird got all those rebounds on Malone is very, very, very misleading.

[97 bulls]

Your stat is flawed.

You didn't include the bench players rebounding numbers. This is huge because Walton playing with Bird nearly averaged 7 rpg off the bench in '86.

McHale pretty much spend his last 4 seasons on the bench and he was averaging around 6-8 rpg playing with Bird.

TRB% doesn't lie. Bird's is higher, maybe he grabbed more rebounds at a higher rate because he was a better rebounder, not because he played with weaker rebounders.
I didnt include the bench because their minutes are too off. It hurt Pippen too players like Dickey Simpkins had rebound%s of 15. I feel the starters were on the court enough to draw a fair conclusion. Will perdue was in the 20s.

And no the Celtic rebounders arent better than the Bulls. I used the stat you wanted. The numbers are there in black and white.

Jordan had an avg rebound% of 10. That was one par with both Ainge and Dennis Johnson together.

[97 bulls]

Just Mention one of the Players There Was to Battle for Rebounds

But Come On 15.3 RPG in a Finals Series for a SF is Big Time Great.

Pippen was Never a Better Rebounder than Bird. Ever
Thats not what the stats say. And Bird was a power forward in 81

[Calabis]

:roll:

Career REB avg:

Pippen 6.4(5.2 ast)
Bird 9.4
Magic 7.2 (11.2 ast oops, was referring to u'r Pippen just as good running a offense theory)
Jordan 6.2

the reason I brought up Magic, is because the OP considered Pippen on the level of Magic/Bird but with better defense...and Jordan's equal during first chip runs:facepalm

[1987_Lakers]

I didnt include the bench because their minutes are too off. It hurt Pippen too players like Dickey Simpkins had rebound%s of 15. I feel the starters were on the court enough to draw a fair conclusion. Will perdue was in the 20s.

And no the Celtic rebounders arent better than the Bulls. I used the stat you wanted. The numbers are there in black and white.

Jordan had an avg rebound% of 10. That was one par with both Ainge and Dennis Johnson together.

Simpkins? Are you serious? He was a bench warmer who played around 60 games each year and played around 10 mpg. :oldlol:

Perdue? Only played around 13 mpg for the Bulls. Not exactly the players you want to compare with Walton & McHale.

[Legends66NBA7]

You are responding to a person who thinks 97 Bulls is GOAT team.

Not like they don't have a case.

[97 bulls]

:roll:

Career REB avg:

Pippen 6.4
Bird 9.4
Magic 11.2
Jordan 6.2

the reason I brought up Magic, is because the OP considered Pippen on the level of Magic/Bird but with better defense...and Jordan's equal during first chip runs:facepalm
Did Magic even avg 11 rebounds in one season? And dont discount the fact that both Bird and Magic retired early. Otherwise their percentages would be lower too

[scandisk_]

dude stop. please :facepalm

[97 bulls]

Simpkins? Are you serious? He was a bench warmer who played around 60 games each year and played around 10 mpg. :oldlol:

Perdue? Only played around 13 mpg for the Bulls. Not exactly the players you want to compare with Walton & McHale.
Which is why I only compared the starters. Weren't you the one that asked me why I didnt include the bench?

[97 bulls]

dude stop. please :facepalm
Lol. The numbers are there. Whats wrong with me backing up my opinion with facts?

[1987_Lakers]

Which is why I only compared the starters. Weren't you the one that asked me why I didnt include the bench?

Walton & McHale were not bench warmers like Simpkins & Perdue. Compare the minutes they played and get back to me.

[Calabis]

Did Magic even avg 11 rebounds in one season? And dont discount the fact that both Bird and Magic retired early. Otherwise their percentages would be lower too

oops....meant assists, in the other post u compared their abilities to running a offense, u considered Pippen just as good

[97 bulls]

oops....meant assists, in the other post u compared their abilities to running a offense, u considered Pippen just as good
Its not really something to debate because you dont feel Pippen ran the Bulls offense.

[97 bulls]

Walton & McHale were not bench warmers like Simpkins & Perdue. Compare the minutes they played and get back to me.
Lol I got back at you with this rebounding percentage and you got bent out of shape. Im good.

I remember showing you Pips and Birds head to head numbers and you made excuses. You dont want the truth bro. You want to believe what you WANT to believe.

[1987_Lakers]

Lol I got back at you with this rebounding percentage and you got bent out of shape. Im good.

I remember showing you Pips and Birds head to head numbers and you made excuses. You dont want the truth bro. You want to believe what you WANT to believe.

You are still denying/dodging the fact that your stat in the OP is flawed. Instead of arguing back, you are posting about how I am "bent out of shape".:oldlol:

It is YOU who doesn't want the truth. And almost everyone in this thread agrees with me.

[LeBird]

:facepalm

I am a Pippen fan but these kinds of nonsensical arguments are only going to get people to dislike him here. In a similar way as jlauber gets on peoples' tits with the Wilt stuff.

Pippen wasn't near Bird as a rebounder, it's not even close. The statement that Pippen played with better rebounders is also :facepalm worthy.

[97 bulls]

You are still denying/dodging the fact that your stat in the OP is flawed. Instead of arguing back, you are posting about how I am "bent out of shape".:oldlol:

It is YOU who doesn't want the truth. And almost everyone in this thread agrees with me.
But the numbers agree with me. Either way. Go ahead and pick out the players you want. If im wrong and the facts bare it out, I have no problem admitting it

[1987_Lakers]

:facepalm

I am a Pippen fan but these kinds of nonsensical arguments are only going to get people to dislike him here. In a similar way as jlauber gets on peoples' tits with the Wilt stuff.

Pippen wasn't near Bird as a rebounder, it's not even close. The statement that Pippen played with better rebounders is also :facepalm worthy.
Exactly

[97 bulls]

:facepalm

I am a Pippen fan but these kinds of nonsensical arguments are only going to get people to dislike him here. In a similar way as jlauber gets on peoples' tits with the Wilt stuff.

Pippen wasn't near Bird as a rebounder, it's not even close. The statement that Pippen played with better rebounders is also :facepalm worthy.
Im a Bird fan. But the numbers show they were even as far as rebounding. Dennis Rodmans rebound% was as high as Mchales and Parrishs together. Jordan% was on par with both Ainge and Dennis Johnson together as well. Two of our players add up to four of yours.

[1987_Lakers]

Im a Bird fan. But the numbers show they were even as far as rebounding. Dennis Rodmans rebound% was as high as Mchales and Parrishs together. Jordan% was on par with both Ainge and Dennis Johnson together as well. Two of our players add up to four of yours.

By the time Chicago got Rodman, Pippen was only at 10 TRB%. Bird, despite having Parish, McHale, & Walton in 1986 was at 14 TRB%. How exactly does that prove Pippen & Bird were a wash on rebounding? Even before Pippen had Rodman on his team he never had a 14 TRB% season.

[97 bulls]

By the time Chicago got Rodman, Pippen was only at 10 TRB%. Bird, despite having Parish, McHale, & Walton in 1986 was at 14 TRB%. How exactly does that prove Pippen & Bird were a wash on rebounding? Even before Pippen had Rodman on his team he never had a 14 TRB% season.
1986 is one year bro. Even before Rodman joined the Bulls, Jordans percentage was at 10 yearly. Both Ainge and Johnson were barely at 5 a piece. He was rebounding at a rate of both the Celtics guard percentage-wise. Combined. As much as you hate to admit. Both Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright were on par with Mchale and Parrish. Then you got another guard thats not accounte for in Armsrtong. Who was pushing 4-5.

To be honest, the second threepeat Bulls blow the Celtics out the water where rebound%to is concerned.

[LeBird]

Use your brain. It is a diminishing returns argument. Jordan and Pippen on that Celtics team would have fewer rebounds; you can't compare like for like because the Celtics and the Bulls had different competition for the rebounds. That directly impacts on your TRB%. The fact that Jordan and Pippen had higher % - despite not having a lot of total rebounds - is because of the fact that they had little competition. This shouldn't need explaining to anyone who knows even the basics of the game.

[nycelt84]

Btw Maxwell was the PF always not Bird.

[Overdrive]

Bird on avg over his seasons had a rebound% of 14. Pippen had an avg of 11. But their teams? The other four Bulls starters had an avg of 46%. The other four Celtics starters were only 41.

So Pippen had better rebounders on his team. Which is why his percentage was lower. And you have to factor in that Pippen played farther away from the basket than Bird did. Which could easily sway the argument in Pippens favor as far as rebounding.

You understand that others taking away TRB% from Pippen doesn't help your argument? It doesn't make his teammates the better rebounders it makes Pippen the worse one.
You understand basic math? 14/41 = 34,15% of the starters rebounds, 11/46 = 23,91% of the starters rebounds. Your cherry picking didn't help your argument.

[97 bulls]

You understand that others taking away TRB% from Pippen doesn't help your argument? It doesn't make his teammates the better rebounders it makes Pippen the worse one.
You understand basic math? 14/41 = 34,15% of the starters rebounds, 11/46 = 23,91% of the starters rebounds. Your cherry picking didn't help your argument.
You could say that. But then youd be have to imply that either Ainge or Johnson are better rebounders than Jordan. And thats not the case. The years Jordan retired, Pippens percentage improved to a very Birdlike 13%. Granted they never got as high as Birdwas 14%, but Pippen spent a good portion of his time on the perimeter. Bird tended to stay closer to the Basket. This is especially true on the defensive side of the ball where Bird would tend to guard the other teams slower forward.

[Overdrive]

You could say that. But then youd be have to imply that either Ainge or Johnson are better rebounders than Jordan. And thats not the case. The years Jordan retired, Pippens percentage improved to a very Birdlike 13%. Granted they never got as high as Birdwas 14%, but Pippen spent a good portion of his time on the perimeter. Bird tended to stay closer to the Basket. This is especially true on the defensive side of the ball where Bird would tend to guard the other teams slower forward.

I understand what you mean, but you got asked to post the TRB%, because you claimed Pippen's would be as good as Bird's, which they aren't in any way.

I got the numbers wrong, since I misread your post it's 14/55 and 11/57 respectively, which makes it a 6% difference instead.

Bird guarding closer to the basket doesn't raise his chances that much, since he still had his defensive dutys to do. If a guy shoots over you, you most likely don't get the rebound anyway, so in order to find out if Bird had an advantage guarding the 4 spot we'd need to find out the usage rate and FG% of his opponents while guarding the 4.

Imo rebound is a bit knowledge, but a lot instinct driven and by that you are either a rebounder or you're not. Pippen wasn't bad, but he wasn't on Bird's level.

[LeBird]

No, he doesn't have to imply that Ainge or Johnson are better. As I said, and he added, it is basic basketball and basic math. Of course Pippen's TRB% would rise if Jordan left...that's kind of the point.

To put it simply, Bird matched one of the greatest rebounders of all time (Malone); if Pippen even dreamed of doing such a thing his mama would slap him for being so silly. Or maybe Charles Oakley would. :oldlol:

[necya]

:facepalm

I am a Pippen fan but these kinds of nonsensical arguments are only going to get people to dislike him here. In a similar way as jlauber gets on peoples' tits with the Wilt stuff.

Pippen wasn't near Bird as a rebounder, it's not even close. The statement that Pippen played with better rebounders is also :facepalm worthy.

i cosign this post.
Why people are stucking on statistics ?? that's typical of american sports fans :facepalm

Pippen is a great rebounder no doubt, Bird without looking at his numbers is a master in this area. he applies all the basics perfectly.

[1987_Lakers]

Celtics: #1 in rebounding in 1986 - Bird: 14.2 TRB%

Bulls: Average rebounding in 1995 (No Grant or MJ) - Pippen: 12.5 TRB%

"But Bird had better numbers because Pippen played with better rebounders.":oldlol:

[97 bulls]

I understand what you mean, but you got asked to post the TRB%, because you claimed Pippen's would be as good as Bird's, which they aren't in any way.

I got the numbers wrong, since I misread your post it's 14/55 and 11/57 respectively, which makes it a 6% difference instead.

Bird guarding closer to the basket doesn't raise his chances that much, since he still had his defensive dutys to do. If a guy shoots over you, you most likely don't get the rebound anyway, so in order to find out if Bird had an advantage guarding the 4 spot we'd need to find out the usage rate and FG% of his opponents while guarding the 4.

Imo rebound is a bit knowledge, but a lot instinct driven and by that you are either a rebounder or you're not. Pippen wasn't bad, but he wasn't on Bird's level.
Id venture to guess their usage rates arent that high consiering Bird guarded the weaker scorer between the forward positions. Which is also why his defensive rating is so high.

Either way. You cant minimize how much of an effect rebounding closer to the basket has as opposed to trying to do it from the perimeter. Obviously its not the end all to be all. But Birds percentage was only one point higher than Pippens over the years in question on avg. Thats excluding the Rodman years. Its not as if hes pushing 20%.

[97 bulls]

i cosign this post.
Why people are stucking on statistics ?? that's typical of american sports fans :facepalm

Pippen is a great rebounder no doubt, Bird without looking at his numbers is a master in this area. he applies all the basics perfectly.
87 lakers brought in the rebound percentages. I dont mind statistics. But theyre useless if you dont put them into context.

[LeBird]

If Bird played with the Bulls his TRB% would be higher. You can't compare them across - like for like - like that because it is team dependent. Playing with a better group of rebounders means he'll have to battle for a higher proportion of the share.

[necya]

87 lakers brought in the rebound percentages. I dont mind statistics. But theyre useless if you dont put them into context.

then if you don't mind about statistics why did you go deeper in your researches ??
while it is stupid to say that a player who averages 11rbd is a better rebounder than someone who averages 10rbd, it's also stupid to say that Pippen has a shot as a rebounder comparing to Bird...plus your conclusion is disastrous.

delete this awful thread.

[97 bulls]

Celtics: #1 in rebounding in 1986 - Bird: 14.2 TRB%

Bulls: Average rebounding in 1995 (No Grant or MJ) - Pippen: 12.5 TRB%

"But Bird had better numbers because Pippen played with better rebounders.":oldlol:
Lol thats one year. A year in which Pippen not only had to rebound, but had to do everything else on the court. You cant pick out one year and make a conclussion that Birds a bettter rebounder as a career. Especially not when almost all the power forwards and centers on that 95 team had high rebound percentages. Perdue 19%, Wennington 12%, Blount 16%, Simpkins 15%. Even Kukoc was respectable at 10%. And he spent a large portion of his time on the perimeter.

Since were talkiing aboout percentages. The Celtics mayve been first in rebounding percentage defensively, but they were closer to the bottom of the pack on offensive rebounds. And how do you know the Celtics rebounded against better rebounders than the Bulls? Maybe their competiton wasnt as good. To use your reasoning.

[97 bulls]

then if you don't mind about statistics why did you go deeper in your researches ??
while it is stupid to say that a player who averages 11rbd is a better rebounder than someone who averages 10rbd, it's also stupid to say that Pippen has a shot as a rebounder comparing to Bird...plus your conclusion is disastrous.

delete this awful thread.
87 lakers brought up then challenged me to show the respective players rebound%.

But let me ask you a question. Why do you feel Bird is a better rebounder? Mind you im talking about his years as a small forward. From 86 on. Not earlier in his career when he was a PF.

[Champ]

Why are we not including the first half of Bird's career in this comparison, when his rebounding was most productive?

[97 bulls]

Why are we not including the first half of Bird's career in this comparison, when his rebounding was most productive?
Because Bird played PF.

[1987_Lakers]

Lol thats one year. A year in which Pippen not only had to rebound, but had to do everything else on the court. You cant pick out one year and make a conclussion that Birds a bettter rebounder as a career. Especially not when almost all the power forwards and centers on that 95 team had high rebound percentages. Perdue 19%, Wennington 12%, Blount 16%, Simpkins 15%. Even Kukoc was respectable at 10%. And he spent a large portion of his time on the perimeter.

Since were talkiing aboout percentages. The Celtics mayve been first in rebounding percentage defensively, but they were closer to the bottom of the pack on offensive rebounds. And how do you know the Celtics rebounded against better rebounders than the Bulls? Maybe their competiton wasnt as good. To use your reasoning.

You Pippen fans use one year (94) and determine that Pippen was a franchise player. :oldlol:

The numbers don't lie. The Celtics had a +401 differential in rebounds in 1986. The Bulls had a +80 differential in 1995. Bird was playing with better rebounders and still rebounded at a higher rate than Pippen. And this was when BOTH players were at their absolute peak.

[Duncan21formvp]

Bird averaged 10 rpg for his career that is what Karl Malone averaged. Not even close.

[Duncan21formvp]

You Pippen fans use one year (94) and determine that Pippen was a franchise player. :oldlol:

.

Tell me about it, imagine just using Iverson 2001 season all the time saying he was good enough to lead teams to titles as the man because he led a team to 56 wins and the #1 seed and the finals.

[97 bulls]

You Pippen fans use one year (94) and determine that Pippen was a franchise player. :oldlol:

The numbers don't lie. The Celtics had a +401 differential in rebounds in 1986. The Bulls had a +80 differential in 1995. Bird was playing with better rebounders and still rebounded at a higher rate than Pippen. And this was when BOTH players were at their absolute peak.
Actually, two years. Because that's all we have to go by. We have a much bigger sample size to compare them as rebounders

[1987_Lakers]

Tell me about it, imagine just using Iverson 2001 season all the time saying he was good enough to lead teams to titles as the man because he led a team to 56 wins and the #1 seed and the finals.
:oldlol:

[Champ]

Because Bird played PF.

Even in the early-80s, Bird played the vast majority of his minutes at small forward, with Maxwell at PF down on the block.

You'd then have McHale subbing in for Max, with Bird staying on the court at SF and logging the majority of minutes.

[97 bulls]

Bird averaged 10 rpg for his career that is what Karl Malone averaged. Not even close.
You know why 87 tried to use their percentages as opposed to cold hard basic numbers? Because he's trying to account for the fact that the league was taking on avg 700 shots per year more in the 80s than the 90s.

[97 bulls]

Tell me about it, imagine just using Iverson 2001 season all the time saying he was good enough to lead teams to titles as the man because he led a team to 56 wins and the #1 seed and the finals.
Funny thing is a lot of people feel had the Sixers had a better scorer alongside Iverson, they mightve beat the Lakers.

[97 bulls]

Even in the early-80s, Bird played the vast majority of his minutes at small forward, with Maxwell at PF down on the block.

You'd then have McHale subbing in for Max, with Bird staying on the court at SF and logging the majority of minutes.
Hold on Champ, you didnt answer my question, why do you feel Bird is the better rebounder?

[oolalaa]

Pip/Bird





Pippen's peak TRB% on a TERRIBLE rebounding team (Teams were abusing them on the boards the whole season) is lower than Bird's career average.

The fact is, Bird played with superior rebounders and still managed to post MUCH higher rebound totals. The Celtics were routinely at or near the top of the rebounding charts throughout Bird's tenure there (Apart from his first 2 seasons). What happened when the Bulls were finally a great rebounding team in 95/96? Pippen posted his lowest TRB% of his career.


Could Pippen even get close to out-rebounding a peak Moses Malone in a single game, let alone across a whole series? GTFO

[LeBird]

You know why 87 tried to use their percentages as opposed to cold hard basic numbers? Because he's trying to account for the fact that the league was taking on avg 700 shots per year more in the 80s than the 90s.

The problem is that your argument using cold hard numbers makes it fall flat on its face.

[97 bulls]

The problem is that your argument using cold hard numbers makes it fall flat on its face.
Here we go again. Read and resond to my entire post. Yes Birds numbers are higher than Pippens. But are you accountiing for the fact that the league Bird played in on had teams on avg taking 500-700 more shots per team. When compared to the NBA Pippen played in. And dont dismiss that Pippen played farther away from the basket. His role was different.

[SilkkTheShocker]

OP overrates Pippen so much :facepalm

[97 bulls]

OP overrates Pippen so much :facepalm
Lol im goiiing by what the numbers say. How is that overrating? Why is context used only when it helps one side?

Case and point. Can we just anoint the Bulls the Greatest team ever because they poses the first, second and fourth best records in NBA history? If not why?

[LeBird]

Here we go again. Read and resond to my entire post. Yes Birds numbers are higher than Pippens. But are you accountiing for the fact that the league Bird played in on had teams on avg taking 500-700 more shots per team. When compared to the NBA Pippen played in. And dont dismiss that Pippen played farther away from the basket. His role was different.

That affects total rebounds and let's be honest; even you know Pippen can't compete on those terms, adjusted or otherwise. So you talk about TRB%. Well, on those terms, Pippen played for a team in which his teammates got less rebounds (and were lesser rebounders, apart from Rodman) than Bird's, which would make it easier for him to have a higher percentage...yet he still comes out behind Bird.

Numbers aside, I am baffled how anyone who has actually watched the two even say Pippen is in the same zip code as Bird as a rebounder.

[97 bulls]

That affects total rebounds and let's be honest; even you know Pippen can't compete on those terms, adjusted or otherwise. So you talk about TRB%. Well, on those terms, Pippen played for a team in which his teammates got less rebounds (and were lesser rebounders, apart from Rodman) than Bird's, which would make it easier for him to have a higher percentage...yet he still comes out behind Bird.

Numbers aside, I am baffled how anyone who has actually watched the two even say Pippen is in the same zip code as Bird as a rebounder.
First, I didnt bring rebound prcentage into this argument between Bird and Pippen. 87 lakers did iin another thread that You were in. Why didnt you stop him? Honestly, I'm not a big fan of advanced stats. But if someone tries to use them as gospel, why cant I? Im sure if the info I posted was more favorable to Bird, youd have no problem accepting it.


Numbers wise, no Pippen didnt play on teams with lesser rebounders than Bird. Grant cancels out Parrish. And the center position for the Bulls was done by commitee. Luc Longley and Bill Cartwrights per 36 min numbers are right in line with Mchales maybe a rebouund less. And as I said, Jordan cancels out both Ainge and Johnson.

[97 bulls]

Originally posted by LeBird

That affects total rebounds

And total rebounds affect rebounds per game. Simple math would dictate that with the extra shot attempts you gonna have extra rebounds when some of those attempts are missed

[get these NETS]

Larry Bird "when were scrimmaging, PJ Carlesimo said to me that he never knew that I could rebound the way did. I said "pj...I know you're just a college coach..but I thought they paid you enough to be able to buy a television. the rest of the team got on him something TERRIBLE after that"




source DREAM TEAM book

[LeBird]

First, I didnt bring rebound prcentage into this argument between Bird and Pippen. 87 lakers did iin another thread that You were in. Why didnt you stop him? Honestly, I'm not a big fan of advanced stats. But if someone tries to use them as gospel, why cant I? Im sure if the info I posted was more favorable to Bird, youd have no problem accepting it.

As far as I've understood it, he's not the one claiming Pippen is as good/better than Bird at rebounding. If you posted Bird was a better man-to-man defender I'd have the same problem as I have now, although you can't really make a stats argument for it.


Numbers wise, no Pippen didnt play on teams with lesser rebounders than Bird. Grant cancels out Parrish. And the center position for the Bulls was done by commitee. Luc Longley and Bill Cartwrights per 36 min numbers are right in line with Mchales maybe a rebouund less. And as I said, Jordan cancels out both Ainge and Johnson.

You're hilarious. In one thread you argue against a number of players being able to equate the production of one player (the Jordan thread) and here you use that logic to your advantage. Your stock is dropping. And no, they weren't; take into account the whole team, the era, the league rank, the players themselves and the image is pretty clear. There's one guy you didn't factor into the above; and that is Bird. So, as I said, even if you are contending that all the other Bulls = the other Celtic players; Bird averages more rebounds per game than Pippen and as TRB% that would be higher than Pippen's.


And total rebounds affect rebounds per game. Simple math would dictate that with the extra shot attempts you gonna have extra rebounds when some of those attempts are missed

It doesn't affect TRB%. Nor when you compare era by era (The Celts being the #1 rebounding side and the Bulls not being near that for their era) does it matter. Or basically, just read this post:



Pippen's peak TRB% on a TERRIBLE rebounding team (Teams were abusing them on the boards the whole season) is lower than Bird's career average.

The fact is, Bird played with superior rebounders and still managed to post MUCH higher rebound totals. The Celtics were routinely at or near the top of the rebounding charts throughout Bird's tenure there (Apart from his first 2 seasons). What happened when the Bulls were finally a great rebounding team in 95/96? Pippen posted his lowest TRB% of his career.


Could Pippen even get close to out-rebounding a peak Moses Malone in a single game, let alone across a whole series? GTFO

[LeBird]

Larry Bird "when were scrimmaging, PJ Carlesimo said to me that he never knew that I could rebound the way did. I said "pj...I know you're just a college coach..but I thought they paid you enough to be able to buy a television. the rest of the team got on him something TERRIBLE after that"

source DREAM TEAM book

:roll:

[Da_Realist]

Numbers aside, I am baffled how anyone who has actually watched the two even say Pippen is in the same zip code as Bird as a rebounder.

You're forgiven. You haven't been on ISH very long. This is where EVERYTHING is debated and argued for days on end using all kinds of obscure stats in an effort to challenge "conventional wisdom". Only on ISH will someone argue Pippen is as good of a rebounder as Bird. In the real world, we'd be arguing Barkley vs Bird, not Pippen vs Bird. :facepalm

[RRR3]

You're forgiven. You haven't been on ISH very long. This is where EVERYTHING is debated and argued for days on end using all kinds of obscure stats in an effort to challenge "conventional wisdom". Only on ISH will someone argue Pippen is as good of a rebounder as Bird. In the real world, we'd be arguing Barkley vs Bird, not Pippen vs Bird. :facepalm
Barkley is easily better rebounder than bird

[Mach_3]

The very fact that your only using numbers is very telling

[97 bulls]

As far as I've understood it, he's not the one claiming Pippen is as good/better than Bird at rebounding. If you posted Bird was a better man-to-man defender I'd have the same problem as I have now, although you can't really make a stats argument for it.



You're hilarious. In one thread you argue against a number of players being able to equate the production of one player (the Jordan thread) and here you use that logic to your advantage. Your stock is dropping. And no, they weren't; take into account the whole team, the era, the league rank, the players themselves and the image is pretty clear. There's one guy you didn't factor into the above; and that is Bird. So, as I said, even if you are contending that all the other Bulls = the other Celtic players; Bird averages more rebounds per game than Pippen and as TRB% that would be higher than Pippen's.



It doesn't affect TRB%. Nor when you compare era by era (The Celts being the #1 rebounding side and the Bulls not being near that for their era) does it matter. Or basically, just read this post:
Again. Read the entire post. Digest it then respond. My point about the Bulls using a center by commitee was to show the starters be it Cartwright in the beginning or Longley who took his place, only played roughly 23 minutes a game as opposed to Parrish who played roughly 38-39. The per 36 min stat bring their rebounding numbers more in line with each other. Or in line with Mchale.

[97 bulls]

You're forgiven. You haven't been on ISH very long. This is where EVERYTHING is debated and argued for days on end using all kinds of obscure stats in an effort to challenge "conventional wisdom". Only on ISH will someone argue Pippen is as good of a rebounder as Bird. In the real world, we'd be arguing Barkley vs Bird, not Pippen vs Bird. :facepalm
This comming from a person who feels Jordan is the only reason why they won their six championships. Or everyone else gave minimal contributions.

[Overdrive]

Again. Read the entire post. Digest it then respond. My point about the Bulls using a center by commitee was to show the starters be it Cartwright in the beginning or Longley who took his place, only played roughly 23 minutes a game as opposed to Parrish who played roughly 38-39. The per 36 min stat bring their rebounding numbers more in line with each other. Or in line with Mchale.

I get what you're trying to say, but you have to decide on your point. You said Pippen's TRB% are lower, but his team's starting lineup had the better rebounders. Now that it's shown that the Celtics were the better rebounders, you try to use another stat(reb/36), which makes your "TRB% is lower, because of better rebounding starting lineup completly" premise invalid. It's either one or the other, and both don't help as a single point. You can't put a fictional stat(per 36) in relation to a, as you put it, cold number just to win an argument.

Pippen was a good rebounder, but he simply wasn't on Bird's level, that doesn't make him a lesser player than he was.

[Smoke117]

97 Bulls who gives a shit? Scottie Pippen is my favorite player of all time and when I saw this thread pop up I was just like...oh god...why? Why are you making this pointless thread? I can't believe that anyone really gives a **** about any of this.

[97 bulls]

97 Bulls who gives a shit? Scottie Pippen is my favorite player of all time and when I saw this thread pop up I was just like...oh god...why? Why are you making this pointless thread? I can't believe that anyone really gives a **** about any of this.
I made this thread in reply to 1987 Lakers post about hoe Bird was a better rebounder than Pippen based on their respective rebound percentages. I didnt start this. I just finished it. Did you read the thread?

[97 bulls]

I get what you're trying to say, but you have to decide on your point. You said Pippen's TRB% are lower, but his team's starting lineup had the better rebounders. Now that it's shown that the Celtics were the better rebounders, you try to use another stat(reb/36), which makes your "TRB% is lower, because of better rebounding starting lineup completly" premise invalid. It's either one or the other, and both don't help as a single point. You can't put a fictional stat(per 36) in relation to a, as you put it, cold number just to win an argument.

Pippen was a good rebounder, but he simply wasn't on Bird's level, that doesn't make him a lesser player than he was.
Where does it show that theyre better rebounders? The problem is im having a conversation with four different people about 10 different things. Its aggravatig because youll (just an example) will have pluck an excerpt of a post and wonder why Im posting in a certain way. When im just responding to someone else and you came in in the middle of it. If youd read the original post, I tried to brief everyone on why I made this thread. So before anyone posts theyd have an idea as to whats going on. And sure enough people are still comming in here making recklaees assumptions

[Kellogs4toniee]

I made this thread in reply to 1987 Lakers post about hoe Bird was a better rebounder than Pippen based on their respective rebound percentages. I didnt start this. I just finished it. Did you read the thread?


You didn't finish jack you idiot.

I'm not sure whether your a troll or in some kind of twisted mental state where the powers of analysis and comprehension is totally off mark, but the only thing you finished in this thread is make yourself look like an idiot and have pretty much the entire thread continue to disagree with you. Have you ever considered that maybe your wrong? Standardized testing must have been rough on you.

My goodness it's freaking embarrassing to read. Ashamed to see the Bulls word in your name.

[97 bulls]

You didn't finish jack you idiot.

I'm not sure whether your a troll or in some kind of twisted mental state where the powers of analysis and comprehension is totally off mark, but the only thing you finished in this thread is make yourself look like an idiot and have pretty much the entire thread continue to disagree with you. Have you ever considered that maybe your wrong? Standardized testing must have been rough on you.

My goodness it's freaking embarrassing to read. Ashamed to see the Bulls word in your name.
Show me where im wrong. If I post the info backed up wiith facts, how do you arrive at this conclusion? Perhaps if youd stop acting like a sensitive female and read youd understand my point. This was a challenge made to me by another poster based on rebound%. Plain and simple. Youre attacking the wrong person.

[1987_Lakers]

You didn't finish jack you idiot.

I'm not sure whether your a troll or in some kind of twisted mental state where the powers of analysis and comprehension is totally off mark, but the only thing you finished in this thread is make yourself look like an idiot and have pretty much the entire thread continue to disagree with you. Have you ever considered that maybe your wrong? Standardized testing must have been rough on you.

My goodness it's freaking embarrassing to read. Ashamed to see the Bulls word in your name.
:oldlol:

[97 bulls]

:oldlol:
This is all your fault 87 lol