View Full Version : Does Robert Horry deserve to be in the HOF???
barkleynash
08-30-2012, 03:29 PM
"I'm not a chief but I'm a great indian."
Can a super role player like Robert Horry make it into the Hall based off of multiple championships and more clutch moments than we can count?
00playboy00
08-30-2012, 03:31 PM
Yes. Not only did he hit big shots off the bench. he did it with different teams (Houston, LA) Multiple Rings he's No DOubt a HOF player
barkleynash
08-30-2012, 03:36 PM
lets not forget probably his greatest performance ever in the twilight of his career! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZdik09RGJI
magictricked
08-30-2012, 03:41 PM
No, career role players don't get into the HOF
barkleynash
08-30-2012, 03:44 PM
No, career role players don't get into the HOF
what about Rodman, he was the ultimate role player and he made it in
knickscity
08-30-2012, 03:47 PM
He's definitely a part of NBA history, but I don't think he'll make it.
DTreats
08-30-2012, 03:48 PM
Hell no, he was average at best. Countless other players could have done what he did.
swi7ch
08-30-2012, 03:48 PM
Of course. He's got like 11ty championships and it's not like he was the 12th man either.
:facepalm Is Robert Horry even a top 500 player in NBA history?
BlackVVaves
08-30-2012, 03:49 PM
Of course. He's got like 11ty championships and it's not like he was the 12th man either.
When did Horry get 11 championships?
Sarcastic
08-30-2012, 03:50 PM
If Bernard King did not make it, then Robert Horry definitely does not deserve to make it.
magictricked
08-30-2012, 03:51 PM
what about Rodman, he was the ultimate role player and he made it in
In my view Rodman was a step above Horry. Rodman was much more of an impact player than Horry. Rodman played much larger more active roles. once again IMO
Clifton
08-30-2012, 04:22 PM
Is Robert Horry even a top 500 player in NBA history?
Probably not. He wouldn't be a top 100 player now. Think about it doesn't pretty much every team have 3 players who are better than Horry? How many teams would a prime Horry even start on? Did he start on any of his championship teams? Perhaps the Rockets?
swi7ch
08-30-2012, 04:30 PM
When did Horry get 11 championships?
I said 11ty, not 11.
HUGE difference there!
OhNoTimNoSho
08-30-2012, 04:48 PM
Skill wise definitely not but he just happen to hit like every clutch shot he got the opportunity to hit.. that has to count for something since it had a direct result in many important games en route to championships.
A hall of fame, wall of fame, walk of fame, walk of stars or avenue of stars is a type of attraction established for any field of endeavor to honor individuals of noteworthy achievement in that field.
I believe his achievements was certainly noteworthy.
Deuce Bigalow
08-30-2012, 04:55 PM
:oldlol: :oldlol:
longtime lurker
08-30-2012, 04:56 PM
Lol no
:facepalm @ anyone even CONSIDERING Horry going in. 500 better players easily.
Haymaker
08-30-2012, 05:14 PM
He might get in for his numerous rings, the different teams he won them with and his vital role in those wins. He had a huge impact on each and every of the three teams.
WesWelkerACL
08-30-2012, 05:14 PM
I don't think ya'll haters ever played a sport in your life. There's something for being extremely clutch. It's an intangible skill and most guys don't have it. Yes he belongs in the Hall of Fame. He had a very real impact on the history of the league (as far as who won titles).
I don't think ya'll haters ever played a sport in your life. There's something for being extremely clutch. It's an intangible skill and most guys don't have it. Yes he belongs in the Hall of Fame. He had a very real impact on the history of the league (as far as who won titles).
And there have been literally hundreds upon hundreds of better players. Why should we even take this thread seriously again? :confusedshrug:
Smoke117
08-30-2012, 05:21 PM
f.uck no.
Overdrive
08-30-2012, 05:24 PM
No, career role players don't get into the HOF
KC Jones?
Imo he should get in. He left a visible landmark on the NBA. He didn't do alot as in cumulating stats, but what he did stuck in people's minds.
And there have been literally hundreds upon hundreds of better players.
You can find tons of players posting 20ppg and/or 5apg and/or 5reb, but you cannot find alot of players that legends trusted as much taking a shot in the expiring seconds of a decisive playoff game.
TheMarkMadsen
08-30-2012, 05:26 PM
No. He was a very good role player but nothing more than that. HOF should be reserved for the true legends of the game.
KC Jones?
Imo he should get in. He left a visible landmark on the NBA. He didn't do alot as in cumulating stats, but what he did stuck in people's minds.
You can find tons of players posting 20ppg and/or 5apg and/or 5reb, but you cannot find alot of players that legends trusted as much taking a shot in the expiring seconds of a decisive playoff game.
Kobe trusted Derek Fisher to take big shots
LeBron trusts Mario Chalmers to take big shots
Clearly, Fisher and Chalmers are future HOF'ers.:rolleyes:
Overdrive
08-30-2012, 05:33 PM
Kobe trusted Derek Fisher to take big shots
LeBron trusts Mario Chalmers to take big shots
Clearly, Fisher and Chalmers are future HOF'ers.:rolleyes:
Not as regularly in the playoffs by as many teams/greats. Fisher was a
product of the Lakers. We'll see what happens to Chalmers, but if he can fill a highlight reel with playoff gamewinners(hyperbole!) on 3 different championship teams alone and gets 5-10 rings there might be the same question.
Not as regularly in the playoffs by as many teams/greats. Fisher was a
product of the Lakers. We'll see what happens to Chalmers, but if he can fill a highlight reel with playoff gamewinners(hyperbole!) on 3 different championship teams alone and gets 5-10 rings there might be the same question.
Yeah Horry wasn't a product of great players, eh? :rolleyes: Why do you think he was open to hit those shots? Because teams were focusing on Hakeem, because teams were focusing on Duncan, because teams were focusing on Shaq and Kobe.
Clifton
08-30-2012, 06:12 PM
He might get in for his numerous rings, the different teams he won them with and his vital role in those wins. He had a huge impact on each and every of the three teams.
No he didn't. He was a roleplayer who has hit a few really famous shots. I don't think it's purely coincidence. I think Horry is clutch in a real way. He has something few do. But a basketball game is 48 minutes and it almost never comes down to a last shot... and when it does, guess what: nobody ever called a play to set up Robert Horry. He got open looks because better players had created them for him.
Overdrive
08-30-2012, 06:16 PM
Yeah Horry wasn't a product of great players, eh? :rolleyes: Why do you think he was open to hit those shots? Because teams were focusing on Hakeem, because teams were focusing on Duncan, because teams were focusing on Shaq and Kobe.
Still not everyone hit these shots at that clip. You're acting like anyone could do it. Horry got lucky that he was on a contender for almost all his career, but his role was important to those teams nontheless. Instead of Horry in those waning seconds it might have been another role player PF, who couldn't hit the ocean with a rock.
Alot of the ATG role players and defensive perimeter guys were products of their teammates. Still some of these guys are in the HoF.
kentatm
08-30-2012, 06:17 PM
NO!
magictricked
08-30-2012, 06:21 PM
Still not everyone hit these shots at that clip. You're acting like anyone could do it. Horry got lucky that he was on a contender for almost all his career, but his role was important to those teams nontheless. Instead of Horry in those waning seconds it might have been another role player PF, who couldn't hit the ocean with a rock.
Alot of the ATG role players and defensive perimeter guys were products of their teammates. Still some of these guys are in the HoF.
How many game winning shots in the playoffs do you think Horry made in his (15 year?) career?
I watched him during his Lakers years. He made some big shots, he also missed a few too
Overdrive
08-30-2012, 06:27 PM
How many game winning shots in the playoffs do you think Horry made in his (15 year?) career?
I watched him during his Lakers years. He made some big shots, he also missed a few too
About 5-7. I know that I overstated, hence "hyperbole" in parentheses. I know he missed his fair share. If he didn't the Lakers might have had 4 in a row.
About 5-7. I know that I overstated, hence "hyperbole" in parentheses. I know he missed his fair share. If he didn't the Lakers might have had 4 in a row.
So he should be in the hall of fame for 5-7 shots? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Overdrive
08-30-2012, 06:40 PM
So he should be in the hall of fame for 5-7 shots? :roll: :roll: :roll:
He's got the same eligibility as T-Mac who'd get in for chucking on a injured ridden team and doing some fancy plays.
magictricked
08-30-2012, 06:41 PM
About 5-7. I know that I overstated, hence "hyperbole" in parentheses. I know he missed his fair share. If he didn't the Lakers might have had 4 in a row. He made 8. which is 8 more than 99% of the players who ply in the league ever will.
Don't take me wrong I love Horry I liked his defense more than the "big game" aspect, I also think he's a quality guy off the floor, or at least he appears to be.
I just don't see him as a HOF material. He's sort of the Forrest Gump of the NBA, sort of drifted here to there and always landed in the right spot in the right situation at the right time
When you look at his awards and honors list it's empty his first year he made all rookie 2nd team then nothing. In 15 years not one 3rd team this or that, just empty there's nothing.
He's got the same eligibility as T-Mac who'd get in for chucking on a injured ridden team and doing some fancy plays.
Yes, Robert Horry is better than 7-time all-star, and two time scoring champion Tracy McGrady because he hit a few wide open threes and rode 4 top 10 players of all time to 7 rings.:rolleyes:
Overdrive
08-30-2012, 06:58 PM
Yes, Robert Horry is better than 7-time all-star, and two time scoring champion Tracy McGrady because he hit a few wide open threes and rode 4 top 10 players of all time to 7 rings.:rolleyes:
That's not what I posted.
The problem about the HoF, are the players that got in. KC Jones' stats aren't that much better than Horry's and neither was his role bigger on those Celtic's than Horry's. He was a defensive role player who was able to hit an shot now and then.
Neither Horry nor T-Mac are in the same echelon as Jordan, Bird or other clear cut HoFers.
Especially getting in on scoring titles and all stars berths is stupid and some players got in on that also. So the criteria is very low imo.
This shouldn't be a diss against McGrady, I really like(d) him as a player, but if he gets in on a criteria others got in in the past(scoring titles, AS berths, fancy plays) Horry might aswell get in(important role player on successful playoff team).
magictricked
08-30-2012, 07:08 PM
That's not what I posted.
KC Jones' stats aren't that much better than Horry'sKC Jones went in a dual ticket as a coach and player
7 rings + one of the most clutch players in the history of the game? Of course he should make it.
wagexslave
08-30-2012, 08:19 PM
the Hall Of F@ggots maybe
NumberSix
08-30-2012, 08:20 PM
7 rings
7 rings + one of the most clutch players in the history of the game? Of course he should make it.
The overvaluing of rings on ISH is out of control. :facepalm
Do you guys realize how many players would have an argument to be in the HOF if Horry were to make it?
For example:
Derek Fisher: 5 rings, many memorable big shots in playoffs
Steve Kerr: 5 rings, great shooter
Bruce Bowen: 3 rings, amazing defender
Lamar Odom: 2 rings, 6th man of the year, very solid player
John Salley: 4 rings, part of numerous elite teams
John Paxson: 3 rings, clutch shots
Horace Grant: 4 rings, all-star
Kurt Rambis: 4 rings, wore goggles
Ron Harper: 5 rings, 20 PPG scorer early in career
Michael Cooper: 5 rings, DPOY
Jim Loscutoff: 7 rings
Udonis Haslem: 2 rings, solid double-double guy in his prime
Now ask yourselves, are these players Hall of Famers? :lol Most of them weren't even starters.:facepalm Also if you guys want to act like Horry was a large part of his team's winning those 7 rings, then by common ISH logic, we should really be considering Horry for top 10 all-time:rolleyes:
wagexslave
08-30-2012, 08:21 PM
7 meaningless rings
fixed
ihatetimthomas
08-30-2012, 08:56 PM
what about Rodman, he was the ultimate role player and he made it in
Lol Horry is not close to the league Rodman was in. Rodman was only one of te if not the greatest defender of all time. And one of the greatest rebounders of all time. 2x Dpoy, 2x all star, 7x first team defense, 7x rebounding champ, 5x nba champ. Horry has 7 titles and no other individual accolades.
bizil
08-30-2012, 11:14 PM
No way in hell! Now if Horry lived up to that 6'10 Scottie Pippen tag coming outta Alabama then he would deserve that nod. To be in the HOF, I feel at one time or another u gotta be considered one of the top 5 players at your position for an extended period of time at the least. Or if u have a deep era like the early 2000s SG's or PF's at least on damn close to the level of the top 5 at that position.
U also gotta rack up All Star, All NBA, and other awards as well. Horry never had the solo accolades to complement his ring success. It often seemed he was more in the right place at the right time. If a role player is gonna make the HOF, u gotta be an epic role player like a Rodman to make the HOF. And Horry was never on that level. Early in his career, he seemed to be a guy with All Star kind of potential. But guys like he and Derrick McKey for whatever reason never grew into that.
Smoke117
08-30-2012, 11:24 PM
No way in hell! Now if Horry lived up to that 6'10 Scottie Pippen tag coming outta Alabama then he would deserve that nod. To be in the HOF, I feel at one time or another u gotta be considered one of the top 5 players at your position for an extended period of time at the least. Or if u have a deep era like the early 2000s SG's or PF's at least on damn close to the level of the top 5 at that position.
U also gotta rack up All Star, All NBA, and other awards as well. Horry never had the solo accolades to complement his ring success. It often seemed he was more in the right place at the right time. If a role player is gonna make the HOF, u gotta be an epic role player like a Rodman to make the HOF. And Horry was never on that level. Early in his career, he seemed to be a guy with All Star kind of potential. But guys like he and Derrick McKey for whatever reason never grew into that.
Derrick Mckey actually put up a couple solid seasons. He's by no means a hofer, but he's still on another level than Robert Horry. As far as that being tagged as a 6'10" Scottie Pippen coming out of Alabama...a god damn 34 year old Scottie Pippen on the Blazers was better than Robert Horry EVER WAS. It would be a complete and utter joke to put this man in the hof.
SilkkTheShocker
08-30-2012, 11:24 PM
My favorite role player ever, but he isnt a HOF.
magictricked
08-30-2012, 11:43 PM
No way in hell! This.
Your avartar reminds me I need to get some fix-a-flat on the way home tomorrow night
The Iron Fist
08-31-2012, 12:06 AM
what about Rodman, he was the ultimate role player and he made it in
He was far from a role player. He was an integral part of his squads.
Kobe 4 The Win
08-31-2012, 12:14 AM
I love Horry but I say no. It sucks for great role players that contributed as much as he did but I think the hall is for elite players only.
G.O.A.T
08-31-2012, 12:33 AM
No, career role players don't get into the HOF
KC Jones and Frank Ramsey are confused...
Not only that but Horry was a pretty significant role player for many of those title runs...
Rockets '94 - Third/Fourth best player
Rockets '95 - Third best player
Lakers '00 - Fourth/Fifth best player
Lakers '01 - Fifth/Sixth best player
Lakers '02 - Third best player
Spurs '05 - Fourth/Fifth best player
Spurs '07 - Sixth/Seventh best player
He was a part of the main rotation on all seven teams, he was playing 36 mog plus on three teams and he hit game winning shots for all three clubs as well as providing a constant clutch option.
:no:
Why not?
There isn't another player to win multiple titles with two different teams in a contributing role, Horry did it with three teams. The combination his winning resume, clutch reputation and versatile skill set make him a hall-of-famer to me if for no other reason than there has never been and likely will never be another player with a career like his.
I'd put Horry in. If guys like KC Jones, Ramsey, Gola, Slater Martin, etc. get in, I see a guy like Horry fitting in just fine.
KC Jones and Frank Ramsey are confused...
Not only that but Horry was a pretty significant role player for many of those title runs...
Rockets '94 - Third/Fourth best player
Rockets '95 - Third best player
Lakers '00 - Fourth/Fifth best player
Lakers '01 - Fifth/Sixth best player
Lakers '02 - Third best player
Spurs '05 - Fourth/Fifth best player
Spurs '07 - Sixth/Seventh best player
He was a part of the main rotation on all seven teams, he was playing 36 mog plus on three teams and he hit game winning shots for all three clubs as well as providing a constant clutch option.
Why not?
There isn't another player to win multiple titles with two different teams in a contributing role, Horry did it with three teams. The combination his winning resume, clutch reputation and versatile skill set make him a hall-of-famer to me if for no other reason than there has never been and likely will never be another player with a career like his.
I'd put Horry in. If guys like KC Jones, Ramsey, Gola, Slater Martin, etc. get in, I see a guy like Horry fitting in just fine.
Just because guys like KC Jones are erroneously in, we should add other role players?
Furthermore:
*Ramsey's stats are noticeably better than Horry's.
*Tom Gola made 5 all-star teams, an All-NBA 2nd team, and finished top 10 in MVP voting twice. That DESTROYS Horry's individual accomplishments.
*Slater Martin was a 7 time all-star and made All-NBA 2nd team 5 times.
Stop overrating Horry, not even top 500 all-time. :facepalm
stickfigure87
08-31-2012, 12:50 AM
i don't think so but if they were able to vote a guy in on clutch plays, horry would be it.
for most players, you don't remember the shots one missed; you remember what they make. horry made so many i remember the one he missed (game 5, 2003)
kennethgriffin
08-31-2012, 12:57 AM
what about Rodman, he was the ultimate role player and he made it in
rodman was every teams defensive leader. and the teams he won on did it with defense
that with his all time great rebounding made him more than a role player. he was an allstar and a corner stone to championship teams
nobody ever said it was hakeem and horry... or kobe/shaq and horry
but people did say "it was mj/pipp and rodman "
no horry is not a hall of famer
G.O.A.T
08-31-2012, 01:05 AM
Just because guys like KC Jones are erroneously in, we should add other role players?
Furthermore:
*Ramsey's stats are noticeably better than Horry's.
*Tom Gola made 5 all-star teams, an All-NBA 2nd team, and finished top 10 in MVP voting twice. That DESTROYS Horry's individual accomplishments.
*Slater Martin was a 7 time all-star and made All-NBA 2nd team 5 times.
Stop overrating Horry, not even top 500 all-time. :facepalm
Ramsey made no all-star teams and was never the fourth best (or better) player on a title team. Horry was three times.
Gola and Martin sacrificed stats to win. They made all-star and all-nba teams because it their era a teams third best player could actually win those awards. Obviously that's more rare today. Neither Gola nor Martin was ever better than third best on a contending or title winning team.
Jones is in because of how much his team won. It's not a hall of merit, it's a hall of fame. Are their players better than Jones not in? Of course. Are their players more deserving? debatable. Are their players more significant? No.
Ramsey made no all-star teams and was never the fourth best (or better) player on a title team. Horry was three times.
Gola and Martin sacrificed stats to win. They made all-star and all-nba teams because it their era a teams third best player could actually win those awards. Obviously that's more rare today. Neither Gola nor Martin was ever better than third best on a contending or title winning team.
Jones is in because of how much his team won. It's not a hall of merit, it's a hall of fame. Are their players better than Jones not in? Of course. Are their players more deserving? debatable. Are their players more significant? No.
If Robert Horry gets in, why not Derek Fisher? If Derek Fisher gets in, why not Steve Kerr? and so on and so on. So what if player x was the x best player on x team; doesn't make them better than player y. For instance, Kyrie Irving is the best player on the Cavaliers. Chris Bosh is the 3rd best player on the Heat, yet he's better than Irving.
Legends66NBA7
08-31-2012, 01:23 AM
If Robert Horry gets in, why not Derek Fisher? If Derek Fisher gets in, why not Steve Kerr?
Wouldn't be surprised if any of that happens.
It's K.C. Jones-esque, I'll mark it as such.
G.O.A.T
08-31-2012, 01:31 AM
If Robert Horry gets in, why not Derek Fisher? If Derek Fisher gets in, why not Steve Kerr? and so on and so on. So what if player x was the x best player on x team; doesn't make them better than player y. For instance, Kyrie Irving is the best player on the Cavaliers. Chris Bosh is the 3rd best player on the Heat, yet he's better than Irving.
Horry's resume is significantly better than Fisher or Kerr's.
As for the Bosh Irving example, that makes my point. I'd rather have the third best guy on a title team (most of the time) than the best guy on a lottery team.
I see what you're saying an my argument isn't titles = ranking. It's just that what Horry has done, multiple titles as a rotation player with three different teams (no one else has done it with two), is so unique that it deserves special recognition.
It doesn't open the door for lesser players like Kerr or Fisher because by all accounts those guys fall short of Horry.
barkleynash
08-31-2012, 02:29 AM
So if Horry had 2 or 3 seasons with a lottery bound team and got to chuck as much as he wanted so that he could have some misleading and inflated stats for a few seasons would his chances of getting into the hall be better Maybe if he was put in that role we would look at him differently?
Most people that are in the HOF were special or dominant at something. My boy Rodman (the ultimate role player) dominated defensively and obviously rebounding. Horry happened to dominate clutchness.
Is hard to imagine him in the hall if Bernard King isn't in though, damn injuries!
MetsPackers
08-31-2012, 03:03 AM
So Kobe's 2 rings that he won as a 'sidekick' in LA don't count but Horrys 7 as a sideshow clown get him into the hall?? :biggums:
Brunch@Five
08-31-2012, 04:38 AM
Robert Horry derserves to get in because he's a legend. Not because he was such a great player, but because of his resum
what about Rodman, he was the ultimate role player and he made it in
Rodman is the pound for pound greatest rebounder ever, he would probably average 30 a game if he played in the 60's, add that to the fact that he was only about 6'9 and it makes it more impressive (yes i do believe he was better than barkley at it). Rodman also is possibly the best post defender.
What is robert horry considered the best at? hitting big shots yes but there are about 30 players that had his caliber of big shot makes
what about Rodman, he was the ultimate role player and he made it in
Rodman was All Star though.
BoutPractice
08-31-2012, 10:15 AM
He should be.
The HOF isn't meant to be the hall of the greatest players ever.
It's an actual place you can visit, a museum of sorts, and his career is relevant and interesting enough in the history of the game for him to be a piece in that museum.
Absolutely not and I will stop watching the NBA if he is inducted.
what about Rodman, he was the ultimate role player and he made it in
:facepalm Comparing Horry to the GOAT rebounder who was a multiple time All-Star, multiple time DPOY, multiple time rebounding champ, multiple time All-Defensive 1st team and once averaged over 20 RPG for an entire month. What a slap to the face of Dennis.
senelcoolidge
08-31-2012, 02:21 PM
Being on a lot of championships doesn't make you a HoFer. This thread is silly. Just like a guy that doesn't win any championship can be a great player/HoFer.
Harison
08-31-2012, 02:27 PM
He wont make it, just being super clutch and championships as a role player doesnt qualify if a total body of work isnt that great. For most of his career he didnt averaged 10 points or rebounds, no MVPs, not even All-star games.
Hall of Fame Probability: 0.055
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horryro01.html
Harison
08-31-2012, 02:32 PM
Being on a lot of championships doesn't make you a HoFer. This thread is silly. Just like a guy that doesn't win any championship can be a great player/HoFer.
Exactly, KG and Lebron were 1st ballot HOF even if they didnt had won a single championship. Same as Malone, Elgin Baylor, Barkley, Stockton, etc.
barkleynash
08-31-2012, 03:26 PM
Absolutely not and I will stop watching the NBA if he is inducted.
:facepalm Comparing Horry to the GOAT rebounder who was a multiple time All-Star, multiple time DPOY, multiple time rebounding champ, multiple time All-Defensive 1st team and once averaged over 20 RPG for an entire month. What a slap to the face of Dennis.
haha relax guys i was just using Rodman as an example because he is the best example of a role player getting into the hall. Obviously he is better then Horry.
Fact is Horry (overly fortunate or not by "Forrest Gumping" his way to multiple titles) was the most prolific winner since the Russel era celts. Take him, off those Rockets, Lakers and spurs teams and who knows how many titles they would've won without him!
I wonder what his former teammates and coaches think about this. Or perhaps opposing teams coaches and players?
what about Rodman, he was the ultimate role player and he made it in
****'s wrong with you son?
Rodman isn't a role player - the guy was a dominant defender. Defense is half of the game. Offensively he provided his teams with second chance scoring opportunities. Why not call Mutumbo or Mark Eaton role players as well? How about Ben Wallace? Shit, we may as well call Bill Russell a role player.
As far as you seem concerned, if you're not doing it doggy style on offense, you aren't a star player.
Robert Horry isn't even in the same spectrum as Dennis Rodman, let alone the same conversation.
Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Steve Kerr, Bruce Bowen, Danny Ainge. These guys are not HOFers. They were all solid players, but that's it.
fatboy11
08-31-2012, 03:30 PM
Give me a break.
It must be the offseason.....
The Choken One
08-31-2012, 03:32 PM
That's like asking if DFish deserves to be in the hall of fame.
just pls. gtfo. Horry should and will NEVER make it into the hof.
wang4three
08-31-2012, 03:33 PM
No. It's not like we're going to put Steve Kerr in for 5 rings.
haha relax guys i was just using Rodman as an example because he is the best example of a role player getting into the hall. Obviously he is better then Horry.
No, you shit the bed. But not with your ass, with your brain.
Fact is Horry (overly fortunate or not by "Forrest Gumping" his way to multiple titles) was the most prolific winner since the Russel era celts. Take him, off those Rockets, Lakers and spurs teams and who knows how many titles they would've won without him!
How does one 'Forrest Gump' their way to championships?
-The guy played with Olajuwon for two championships (94, 95) before being traded for Charles Barkley.
-Was traded for an all-star (Ceballos) to the Lakers to play with Shaq, winning 3 rings.
-Signed with San Antonio in 2003 and won championships in 2005 and 2007
Horry's career averages are 7ppg and 4.8 rpg. He was a success by winning multiple championships, but he was usually the 4th or 5th best starter on all of his teams. He would have been better suited to being a reserve if he wasn't paired beside dominant bigs like Hakeem, and Shaq - heck, from 28 onward he was a reserve.
barkleynash
08-31-2012, 03:44 PM
****'s wrong with you son?
Rodman isn't a role player - the guy was a dominant defender. Defense is half of the game. Offensively he provided his teams with second chance scoring opportunities. Why not call Mutumbo or Mark Eaton role players as well? How about Ben Wallace? Shit, we may as well call Bill Russell a role player.
As far as you seem concerned, if you're not doing it doggy style on offense, you aren't a star player.
Robert Horry isn't even in the same spectrum as Dennis Rodman, let alone the same conversation.
Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Steve Kerr, Bruce Bowen, Danny Ainge. These guys are not HOFers. They were all solid players, but that's it.
Look dude, I'm not the only one that looks at Rodman as a role player. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408884-lending-a-helping-hand-10-greatest-role-players-in-nba-history/page/11
In my opinion he's the greatest role player ever, but the way I look at it is if you can't build a team around a player then he falls into the role player catagory. So yeah Ben Wallace in my opinion is also a role player. Bill Russel did give alot more scoring then either of them and was much more complete player, plus his D changed the game alot more in his era
Look dude, I'm not the only one that looks at Rodman as a role player. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/408884-lending-a-helping-hand-10-greatest-role-players-in-nba-history/page/11
In my opinion he's the greatest role player ever
BLEACHER REPORT
:roll:
:roll:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/mimie168/smiley-rolling.gif
In my opinion he's the greatest role player ever, but the way I look at it is if you can't build a team around a player then he falls into the role player catagory. So yeah Ben Wallace in my opinion is also a role player. Bill Russel did give alot more scoring then either of them and was much more complete player, plus his D changed the game alot more in his era
Well you must be looking the wrong way. The Pistons were built around Ben Wallace. He was there first, he set the tone defensively, and was the backbone, and heart and soul of that team. There is not one player in those years 2001-2005 who could have replaced him, and rebounded and blocked shots at that level. You're trying to tell me that an all-star should be labeled as a role player? GTFO
Your idea of a role player is seriously skewed. Defense and offense are equally important. What do you think of 2005 Steve Nash? Was he a franchise player?
How about Adrian Dantley?
Stuckey
08-31-2012, 03:58 PM
NO!
this, and he wont, why even bother discussing
SilkkTheShocker
08-31-2012, 04:01 PM
OT but does anyone know why Horry whipped that towell at Ainge's face?
OT but does anyone know why Horry whipped that towell at Ainge's face?
Ainge told him, "Look kid, you're just not a HOFer. Take it from me, I would know."
SilkkTheShocker
08-31-2012, 04:06 PM
Ainge told him, "Look kid, you're just not a HOFer. Take it from me, I would know."
Lol
barkleynash
08-31-2012, 04:10 PM
"forrest gumping" was refering to always being in the right situation which Horry was. Obviously he still had to make those clutch plays. wasn't a knock on Horry, but he obviously was luckier than most in the teams that he got to play for.
I think some of you guys think I'm using role player as some kind of dirty word. I'm def not. That pistons team with Big Ben was such a complete team and so deep that they didn't really have 1 or 2 or even 3 franchise level players like most championship level teams do.
OT but does anyone know why Horry whipped that towell at Ainge's face?
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/535837/AINGE-HORRY-BATTLE-AS-SUNS-LOSE-AGAIN.html
"I've always been a fighter, ever since I was in high school and college," Horry said. "Sometimes when you have a lot of emotions you come back, even at coaches.
"We're not playing well," he said. "I came from a situation where I was used to playing a lot of minutes. Here, I get yanked in and out. Hopefully, I'm over it and I can go play for Danny."
It seems like it was minutes. He went from playing 37 minutes a game in Houston the year before to 22 a game in Phoenix.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horryro01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1997.html
SilkkTheShocker
08-31-2012, 04:16 PM
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/535837/AINGE-HORRY-BATTLE-AS-SUNS-LOSE-AGAIN.html
It seems like it was minutes. He went from playing 37 minutes a game in Houston the year before to 22 a game in Phoenix.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horryro01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1997.html
Appreciate the links, Owl :cheers:
repped
I honestly can't believe posters on here are actually arguing this. :oldlol: Robert Horry HOF'er :roll: :facepalm
Even if you adjust his stats to per 36 minutes they aren't impressive: 10/7/3/2/1. That's a nice role player, but that isn't a goddamn hall of famer. Again, if he were to make it, how could you excuse countless players not making it? I mean, freakin' Jameer Nelson could argue "hey I was an all-star once, Horry never was, put me in the HOF!" :facepalm
barkleynash
08-31-2012, 04:34 PM
I honestly can't believe posters on here are actually arguing this. :oldlol: Robert Horry HOF'er :roll: :facepalm
Even if you adjust his stats to per 36 minutes they aren't impressive: 10/7/3/2/1. That's a nice role player, but that isn't a goddamn hall of famer. Again, if he were to make it, how could you excuse countless players not making it? I mean, freakin' Jameer Nelson could argue "hey I was an all-star once, Horry never was, put me in the HOF!" :facepalm
My boy Danny Ainge was also an allstar... lol
Obviously Horry's stats fall short, we are arguing the value of winning (alot) and the most clutch shots this side of Jordan and Kobe (manufactured by his legendary teammates or not he still had to knock em down)
ZaaaaaH
08-31-2012, 04:34 PM
YES
Before I make this point I will acknowledge the source, Slam's 500 greatest player special, was distinctly flawed.
But let's put it this way Horry (#355) was rated lower than Fred Carter (#322). Why Fred Carter? Because he was the best player on the 9 win 76ers, the team most consider to be the worst to play an 82 game schedule. Carter incidentally was also at no time named to an all-nba team and was a zero time all star.
Robert Horry wouldn't have been the best player on the so called worst-team-of-all-time. Does that give a clue as to whether he belonged in the Hall of fame?
"forrest gumping" was refering to always being in the right situation which Horry was. Obviously he still had to make those clutch plays. wasn't a knock on Horry, but he obviously was luckier than most in the teams that he got to play for.
He was drafted by the Rockets. Luck.
He was traded to the Suns. Unlucky.
He was traded to the Lakers. Luck.
He resigned with the Lakers. No luck involved.
He signed with the Spurs. Smart move, not luck.
I think some of you guys think I'm using role player as some kind of dirty word. I'm def not. That pistons team with Big Ben was such a complete team and so deep that they didn't really have 1 or 2 or even 3 franchise level players like most championship level teams do.
You're using role player to describe all-stars. Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman were all-stars. So was Mark Eaton. Bill Russell would have averaged under 10 points per game for his career if he had been asked to. Would you then call him a role player? How about Wes Unseld? Is he a role player to you?
Wes Unseld (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/u/unselwe01.html) - Guy was a Finals MVP, and a yearly MVP candidate. Want to know his career PPG average? About 10.8. I suppose you think he was a role player, as well? Would your opinion be different if Ben Wallace won an MVP? Or the Finals MVP over Billups? You do know that Wallace finished 10th, 8th, and 7th in MVP voting in consecutive seasons, right? You also know that he played in 4 all-star games, starting in 2 of them, right?
This is a role player to you. :hammerhead:
barkleynash
08-31-2012, 05:02 PM
Just cause you make an allstar team doesn't mean you can't be classified as a role player. Mark ****ing Eaton is a role player lol. A damn good one, but a role player. If you aren't one of the franchise guys they are building around then in my eyes u r a role player. Horace Grant who was an allstar and the bulls 3rd best player back in the day was a role player too.
Trying to lump Unseld and especially Russel in there is rediculous cause they were obviously their teams corner stones and franchise guy.
Perhaps I'm underestimating Big Ben on the Pistons, but I always viewed him as their 4th best player.(Billups, Sheep, Rip) Kinda like Rodman when he was a piston. (Isiah, Dumars, Dantley/Aguire, possibly Lambeer)
magictricked
08-31-2012, 05:03 PM
I really think to get to the bottom of this we need to dissect Horry's career, make a list of all things Horry with in-depth factual analysis
I'll go first by listing his Honors, Accolades and Awards he garnered in his 15 years in the NBA
1992-93 NBA All-Rookie 2nd team
Ok now that I've done the heavy lifting somebody else can ride this baby home
The Iron Fist
08-31-2012, 06:39 PM
I really think to get to the bottom of this we need to dissect Horry's career, make a list of all things Horry with in-depth factual analysis
I'll go first by listing his Honors, Accolades and Awards he garnered in his 15 years in the NBA
1992-93 NBA All-Rookie 2nd team
Ok now that I've done the heavy lifting somebody else can ride this baby home
He threw the towel in danny ainges face during his stint w phoenix. Top 3 wil smith moment.
Just cause you make an allstar team doesn't mean you can't be classified as a role player.
So you're calling all-stars role players. You realize how idiotic that sounds right?
Trying to lump Unseld and especially Russel in there is rediculous cause they were obviously their teams corner stones and franchise guy.
Unseld and Wallace are very similar in terms of impact on their teams. How are you going to separate them??? If Big Ben takes the Finals MVP over Chauncey, then their careers look a lot more similar. Most people thought Big Ben deserved MVP.
Perhaps I'm underestimating Big Ben on the Pistons, but I always viewed him as their 4th best player.(Billups, Sheep, Rip) Kinda like Rodman when he was a piston. (Isiah, Dumars, Dantley/Aguire, possibly Lambeer)
There you said it. You obviously didn't watch either team, you have no clue. I followed that Larry Brown Pistons team, I loved them. Big Ben was their leader and heart and soul. He was the franchise. More of a franchise player than Grant Hill ever was in Detroit, in terms of actual impact.
Rodman should have been the 1996 finals MVP, most people agree on this. How would you view him if he won the MVP over Jordan? Still a role player? You know why he wasn't an all-star with the Bulls? He was basically blackballed by the league.
Educate yourself.
Rodman should have been the 1996 finals MVP, most people agree on this. How would you view him if he won the MVP over Jordan? Still a role player? You know why he wasn't an all-star with the Bulls? He was basically blackballed by the league.
The one person who felt that way...George Karl. And Rodman won game 6 for Chicago. Jordan was horrible that game.
JBull
08-31-2012, 10:17 PM
He isn't good enough for hall of fame, but he had was one hell of a piece yall.
barkleynash
08-31-2012, 11:17 PM
So you're calling all-stars role players. You realize how idiotic that sounds right?
Unseld and Wallace are very similar in terms of impact on their teams. How are you going to separate them??? If Big Ben takes the Finals MVP over Chauncey, then their careers look a lot more similar. Most people thought Big Ben deserved MVP.
There you said it. You obviously didn't watch either team, you have no clue. I followed that Larry Brown Pistons team, I loved them. Big Ben was their leader and heart and soul. He was the franchise. More of a franchise player than Grant Hill ever was in Detroit, in terms of actual impact.
Rodman should have been the 1996 finals MVP, most people agree on this. How would you view him if he won the MVP over Jordan? Still a role player? You know why he wasn't an all-star with the Bulls? He was basically blackballed by the league.
Educate yourself.
easy there muchacho, No way in hell did big ben deserve finals mvp over billups, that's some crazy talk there. That woulda been like the robbery which was Willis Reed getting it over Walt Frazier.
I'd take a prime healthy Grant Hill (a player that could do it all) over a prime Big Ben everyday of the week and twice on sundays.
Would also be rediculous saying Rodman was finals MVP, he rebounded the hell out of the ball (14.7!!!)but he didnt slow kemp down much at all who averaged 23 and 10 and shot 55%
easy there muchacho, No way in hell did big ben deserve finals mvp over billups, that's some crazy talk there. That woulda been like the robbery which was Willis Reed getting it over Walt Frazier.
Ben had a case, but I have no problem with Chauncey winning it.
I'd take a prime healthy Grant Hill (a player that could do it all) over a prime Big Ben everyday of the week and twice on sundays.
And you would be the only person.
Would also be rediculous saying Rodman was finals MVP, he rebounded the hell out of the ball (14.7!!!)but he didnt slow kemp down much at all who averaged 23 and 10 and shot 55%
But the man who shot 36.7% from the field the 3 complete games Payton guarded him was more deserving, not to mention shooting 5/19 from the field in game 6 while Rodman grabbed 19 rebounds.
ThaRegul8r
09-01-2012, 12:49 AM
The one person who felt that way...George Karl.
Comments like these let me know how many people actually paid attention to basketball and who didn't. This comment shows me that you didn't read the newspaper or listen to sports radio or pay attention to anything beyond your narrow focus, if you even followed basketball at all. Because you couldn't have and still make that statement.
I always find it interesting when I see people contradict what I clearly remember from following basketball, and this was only 16 years ago. This is one advantage that comes from being there and paying attention to everything.
kennethgriffin
09-01-2012, 12:53 AM
how the f*ck has this thread gone 7 pages
robert horry hit a few big shots and won a few titles as his teams 5th and 6th best player
big deal
if you put him in the HOF then you gotta put about 500 more people in the HOF after him because the standard will have been lowered greatly.
ThaRegul8r
09-01-2012, 01:05 AM
how the f*ck has this thread gone 7 pages
robert horry hit a few big shots and won a few titles as his teams 5th and 6th best player
big deal
if you put him in the HOF then you gotta put about 500 more people in the HOF after him because the standard will have been lowered greatly.
Apparently you aren't familiar with the Basketball Hall of Fame.
A guy with career averages of 7, 4 and 4 is already in. So how could the standard be lowered greatly?
(Now, Horry isn't deserving of being a HOFer, but that case can be made on Horry's own merits, not by appealing to lower standards. Because looking at people already in, one can't logically make an argument for "lowered standards.")
Comments like these let me know how many people actually paid attention to basketball and who didn't. This comment shows me that you didn't read the newspaper or listen to sports radio or pay attention to anything beyond your narrow focus, if you even followed basketball at all. Because you couldn't have and still make that statement.
I always find it interesting when I see people contradict what I clearly remember from following basketball, and this was only 16 years ago. This is one advantage that comes from being there and paying attention to everything.
If you want to challenge someone, challenge someone that didn't watch the games.
As you evaluate the series, Dennis Rodman won two basketball games. Game 2 and tonight, he was the reason they were successful.
The OPPOSING COACH gave Rodman credit for the Bulls winning. Think twice before you challenge someone.
kennethgriffin
09-01-2012, 01:10 AM
Apparently you aren't familiar with the Basketball Hall of Fame.
A guy with career averages of 7, 4 and 4 is already in. So how could the standard be lowered greatly?
(Now, Horry isn't deserving of being a HOFer, but that case can be made on Horry's own merits, not by appealing to lower standards. Because looking at people already in, one can't logically make an argument for "lowered standards.")
so they make 1 mistake and now every single 7ppg player has to make it?
ThaRegul8r
09-01-2012, 01:21 AM
If you want to challenge someone, challenge someone that didn't watch the games.
The OPPOSING COACH gave Rodman credit for the Bulls winning. Think twice before you challenge someone.
You were talking in response to what someone said about people thinking Rodman should be Finals MVP. I remember off the top of my head approximately half a dozen people saying Rodman was MVP, and that's notwithstanding all the discussion that took place on sports shows at the time and without actually trying to do a search. Your assertion that Karl was the only one who thought such a thing is false.
Think twice before challenging someone who watched the games and then watched the postgame interviews and sports shows, and then listened to every sports show on the radio, then read the papers the next day as well as every basketball publication.
Everyone on the internet wants to get into a pissing contest.
ThaRegul8r
09-01-2012, 01:27 AM
so they make 1 mistake and now every single 7ppg player has to make it?
If you'll look, I said Horry shouldn't get in. I was specifically addressing your statement about "lowered standards," because it's not as if the standard was high to begin with.
Your assertion that Karl was the only one who thought such a thing is false.
The one person who felt that way...George Karl.
I didn't say the only one. Reading comprehension. George Karl was the one because he was on the opposition. He certainly wasn't the only one. And yes, I did watch NBC, ESPN, and read articles on why Rodman should have been Finals MVP over Jordan.
Think twice before challenging someone who watched the games and then watched the postgame interviews and sports shows, and then listened to every sports show on the radio, then read the papers the next day as well as every basketball publication.
Think twice before you call someone out and get proven wrong.
ThaRegul8r
09-01-2012, 02:37 AM
I didn't say the only one. Reading comprehension. George Karl was the one because he was on the opposition. He certainly wasn't the only one. And yes, I did watch NBC, ESPN, and read articles on why Rodman should have been Finals MVP over Jordan.
Rodman should have been the 1996 finals MVP, most people agree on this. How would you view him if he won the MVP over Jordan? Still a role player? You know why he wasn't an all-star with the Bulls? He was basically blackballed by the league.
The one person who felt that way...George Karl
Sure you didn't. :rolleyes:
alleykat
09-01-2012, 03:03 AM
probably not tho
ILLsmak
09-01-2012, 03:31 AM
lets not forget probably his greatest performance ever in the twilight of his career! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZdik09RGJI
that dunk... haha.
-Smak
sekachu
09-01-2012, 03:31 AM
So he should be in the hall of fame for 5-7 shots? :roll: :roll: :roll:
:eek: That was daxx impressive with 7 and 8 big shot in "playoff" as a role players. :applause:
barkleynash
09-01-2012, 03:34 AM
But the man who shot 36.7% from the field the 3 complete games Payton guarded him was more deserving, not to mention shooting 5/19 from the field in game 6 while Rodman grabbed 19 rebounds.
Jordan still averaged 27.3 ppg, 5.3 reb, 4.2 ast and 1.7 stl compared to Rodman's 7.5 ppg, 14.7 reb, 2.5 ast, and 0.8 stl
Rodman's D didn't slow Kemp much in the series as Kemp's scoring and %'s were both up so we can't use that for an argument to tip the scale.
yeah jordan had a terrible game 6 shooting the ball but still went 11/12 from the foul line and added 9 reb and 7 ast. No one shot the ball very well from the bulls that whole series (unless you count Longley and Wenington's spoon fed 2 foot layup %'s) so I don't think we can fault Jordan too much for his 41.5 fg%. The Sonics were a hell of a defensive team after all.
Jordan was clearly the MVP
sekachu
09-01-2012, 03:41 AM
So you're calling all-stars role players. You realize how idiotic that sounds right?
Unseld and Wallace are very similar in terms of impact on their teams. How are you going to separate them??? If Big Ben takes the Finals MVP over Chauncey, then their careers look a lot more similar. Most people thought Big Ben deserved MVP.
There you said it. You obviously didn't watch either team, you have no clue. I followed that Larry Brown Pistons team, I loved them. Big Ben was their leader and heart and soul. He was the franchise. More of a franchise player than Grant Hill ever was in Detroit, in terms of actual impact.
Rodman should have been the 1996 finals MVP, most people agree on this. How would you view him if he won the MVP over Jordan? Still a role player? You know why he wasn't an all-star with the Bulls? He was basically blackballed by the league.
Educate yourself.
lol at your statement claimed "most people agree Rodman as 96 MVP" which virtually stated by Kobe stan only.
barkleynash
09-01-2012, 04:29 AM
And you would be the only person.
Suround a prime Grant Hill with Sheed, Billups, Rip and trade Prince for a new center or just start Okur who was solid and that team would role and I think woulda won multiple titles instead of just the 1!
Prime Grant Hill averaged 25.8ppg on 49% shooting, grabbed 6.6 reb, dished out 5.2 ast had 1.4 stl and a block every other game. Hill has also always been a solid defender and team player.
Prime Ben Wallace was good for 6.9 ppg on 48%, 15.4 reb, 1.6 ast, 1.4 stl, 3.2 blk great leadership and was a defensive and rebounding juggernaut but had zero post moves and couldn't hit a damn free throw.
My $ is on the all around game of Grant Hill every single time, too bad injuries robbed him just as he was entering his Prime :(
delmar
09-01-2012, 08:05 AM
NO no no !!:no:
Jordan still averaged 27.3 ppg, 5.3 reb, 4.2 ast and 1.7 stl compared to Rodman's 7.5 ppg, 14.7 reb, 2.5 ast, and 0.8 stl
Jordan averaged that many points over the series because of the first 3 games. Games 4-6, he put up 23, 26, and 22 points. 3-0 in games 1-3, 1-2 in games 4-6. Rodman was more consistent and he singlehandedly won Chicago two games.
Rodman's D didn't slow Kemp much in the series as Kemp's scoring and %'s were both up so we can't use that for an argument to tip the scale.
Rodman wasn't guarding Kemp the entire time. He was switching off between Kemp and whoever was playing center between Frank Brickowski and Ervin Johnson. Longley spent a decent amount of time guarding Kemp and didn't have much more success.
yeah jordan had a terrible game 6 shooting the ball but still went 11/12 from the foul line and added 9 reb and 7 ast. No one shot the ball very well from the bulls that whole series (unless you count Longley and Wenington's spoon fed 2 foot layup %'s) so I don't think we can fault Jordan too much for his 41.5 fg%. The Sonics were a hell of a defensive team after all.
You can certainly fault Jordan. He doesn't get a free pass because he got to the foul line double digit times or because he pushed double digits in rebounds and assists. The best player in the world doesn't shoot 36.7% from the field in games 4-6, not even if the DPOY is guarding him. And mind you all three of those games were closeout games for Chicago. They won the first three.
Jordan was clearly the MVP
I guess if you look solely at points.
Suround a prime Grant Hill with Sheed, Billups, Rip and trade Prince for a new center or just start Okur who was solid and that team would role and I think woulda won multiple titles instead of just the 1!
Prime Grant Hill averaged 25.8ppg on 49% shooting, grabbed 6.6 reb, dished out 5.2 ast had 1.4 stl and a block every other game. Hill has also always been a solid defender and team player.
Prime Ben Wallace was good for 6.9 ppg on 48%, 15.4 reb, 1.6 ast, 1.4 stl, 3.2 blk great leadership and was a defensive and rebounding juggernaut but had zero post moves and couldn't hit a damn free throw.
My $ is on the all around game of Grant Hill every single time, too bad injuries robbed him just as he was entering his Prime :(
Another one who relies solely on stats. Ben Wallace's impact on the court was matched by only a select few. A guy who was good for over 3 BPG and almost 2 SPG. His ability to guard the post and perimeter, guard people almost 6 inches taller than him, and alter shots. Ben might be one dimensional, but defense wins championships. Ben is a better anchor than Grant was.
SourPatchKids
09-01-2012, 01:46 PM
Bloom.
barkleynash
09-01-2012, 10:14 PM
I guess if you look solely at points.
look again:
Jordan : 27.3 ppg, 5.3 reb, 4.2 ast and 1.7 stl
Rodman's 7.5 ppg, 14.7 reb, 2.5 ast, and 0.8 stl
neither blocked many shots
Jordan was better everywhere other than obviously rebounding so no it wasn't just about points. Rodman's D didn't slow Kemp in the slightest either. Jordan doesn't get a total free pass from poor shooting but everyone on the entire bulls shot poorly that series other than the 7 footers, ya gotta give the award to someone and most importantly he was their best player in their first 3 wins.
Jordan was better everywhere other than obviously rebounding so no it wasn't just about points.
He wasn't as consistent, he wasn't as reliable, and his poor shooting hurt the team. So no, he wasn't better everywhere else.
Rodman's D didn't slow Kemp in the slightest either.
Kemp averaged 19/11 on 56% shooting. He averaged 23/10 on 55% shooting against Chicago. He contained him to pretty much what he was putting up in the regular season. Rodman did what he had to do. He also made Kemp take stupid fouls. He fouled out of 2 games and had 5 fouls in another game.
Jordan doesn't get a total free pass from poor shooting but everyone on the entire bulls shot poorly that series other than the 7 footers
The rest of the team has nothing to do with Jordan's poor shooting.
ya gotta give the award to someone and most importantly he was their best player in their first 3 wins.
No, he was the best player in games 1 and 3. Rodman won game 2 for Chicago(even George Karl admitted it) by grabbing 20 rebounds(11 of which were offensive).
Rodman was by far the most consistent Bull and singlehandedly won 2 of their 4 wins. He recorded double digit rebounds every game and had 2 games of 19 and 20 rebounds. He was much more consistent than Jordan and was responsible for 2 of their wins.
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