How where you taught to shoot?

[ZenMaster]

How did your (former) coach teach you how to shoot? What kind of method did he want you to use?

Do you feel you were taught to shoot in a manner which resembles the pros?

[Punpun]

But I'm a pro bruh. Nah, I shoot like Noah.

[fpliii]

the head of the basketball summer camp I went to when I was like 6 played these VHS tapes for us:

http://www.nba.com/roundball/

Bird and Barry ftw

[DTreats]

I had a hard time understanding what you even meant.

Where=location

How were you taught to shoot?*


I was taught by a old urban dude at my local park, he took me under his wing and all he asked for return was a quick handie after our session.

[KyrieTheFuture]

My pops

[Nero Tulip]

How where...what?

What part of China do you come from?

[Haymaker]

At a basketball clinic when I was a kid.

[ZenMaster]

I had a hard time understanding what you even meant.

Where=location

How were you taught to shoot?*


I was taught by a old urban dude at my local park, he took me under his wing and all he asked for return was a quick handie after our session.

Yeah sorry about that, was too fast writing it.

I mean like what kind of method where you taught to use when shooting, 10 toes to the rim? etc

Also I'm sorry you have to jerk other guys off for basketball lessons.

[fsvr54]

Taught? I just went to the court and started hoisting up shots, week after week.

[ZenMaster]

Taught? I just went to the court and started hoisting up shots, week after week.

OK, so how do you shoot? What's your technique?

[keep-itreal]

I had a hard time understanding what you even meant.

Where=location

How were you taught to shoot?*


I was taught by a old urban dude at my local park, he took me under his wing and all he asked for return was a quick handie after our session.
what??:lol

[IGotACoolStory]

My pops and in the United States of America. On a basketball court, even.

I started playing ball when I was 3 so.. I didn't initially learn to shoot properly. I couldn't even get the ball to reach 10 feet rims until at least 5, I think. And even then, they were mostly push shots from the shoulder.

Around 7 or 8 is when I got really comfortable with 10 foot hoops. By that time, I had 2 years of club basketball under my belt and strong idea of how I felt comfortable shooting the ball. No one was changing it after that much repetition.

The only time I ever had to alter with my shot was when after I first started lifting in high school. Very minimal changes, though.

So unfortunately I shoot a little like Matt Bonner, except not even close to as accurate.

[chips93]

i had lots of different coaches, each that emphasised a different aspect

shoulders square to the basket, bend your knees, make an 'L' shape with your arm, release straight up, and follow through.

one coach empasised aiming for the inside of the back of the rim, and that helped me a lot.

[taucesays]

Coach Kobe taught me that balance is overrated. The only bad shot is the one you didn't take.

[fsvr54]

OK, so how do you shoot? What's your technique?

Seems pretty standard to me. I'm not sure how to describe it. I jump and release over my head. My shot is very inconsistent though and I'm not that good. I get hot sometimes though and can drop deep bombs from three.

[tmacattack33]

When I was 7 yrs old I just chucked the ball up there like I was doing shot-put.

Then I started using a smaller ball and also played nerf hoops. I think that stuff helps you have a regular form when you are young.


In the summer before middle school i really worked on my shot and tried to get my form down. It took an hour of shooting every day to get it right.

I don't think you really need a coach though...just look at youtube videos and just know the basics (don't use your palms, use your finger tips...align your right elbow with the basket in front of you, etc)

[pauk]

Self taught at the age of 10 watching Dale Ellis, Glen Rice, Reggie Miller, Drazen Petrovic, Mark Price and Pete Maravichs VHS tapes "Homework Basketball:Shooting". Lots of hours everyday shooting the ball...

By the time i played organized basketball and had a coach i was teaching HIM how to shoot. :D

[ZenMaster]

My pops and in the United States of America. On a basketball court, even.

I started playing ball when I was 3 so.. I didn't initially learn to shoot properly. I couldn't even get the ball to reach 10 feet rims until at least 5, I think. And even then, they were mostly push shots from the shoulder.

Around 7 or 8 is when I got really comfortable with 10 foot hoops. By that time, I had 2 years of club basketball under my belt and strong idea of how I felt comfortable shooting the ball. No one was changing it after that much repetition.

The only time I ever had to alter with my shot was when after I first started lifting in high school. Very minimal changes, though.

So unfortunately I shoot a little like Matt Bonner, except not even close to as accurate.


I was working with a kid this summer, it was minimal and only for about 30 minutes. I wanted to help him because I think he has a shot at going pro if he becomes a good shooter. We didn't do more about it and now I know why, he told one of my players who also plays with him on a different team that he couldn't make "big" changes in his shot at his age.
I've heard it plenty of times before and it's kind of what you're discribing now, "after that much repitition no one is going to change my shot", it's very common. To me though that's like giving up, if after that much repitition you're not close to being a good shooter then what makes you think it's going to change?



i had lots of different coaches, each that emphasised a different aspect

shoulders square to the basket, bend your knees, make an 'L' shape with your arm, release straight up, and follow through.

one coach empasised aiming for the inside of the back of the rim, and that helped me a lot.

That's interesting, I think that is a very good tip. I would actually say just focus inside the middle of the basket, but since you have too look at something that equates to the back of the rim and just a few inches down.

Some of my players who are playing multiple teams are actually being taught on another team to focus on THE FRONT of the rim :banghead:
It just has to increase the chances of going short by a lot doing that. It's the same as throwing a paper ball in a trash can, you'd also look in the middle of the can and not the front.

[ZenMaster]

Self taught at the age of 10 watching Dale Ellis, Glen Rice, Reggie Miller, Drazen Petrovic, Mark Price and Pete Maravichs VHS tapes "Homework Basketball:Shooting". Lots of hours everyday shooting the ball...

By the time i played organized basketball and had a coach i was teaching HIM how to shoot. :D

Cool

So how do you shoot?

[atljonesbro]

I just learned myself idk. I apparently have the a very ugly shot but it's pretty effective. If i had to compare i just it would look like a combo of Peja and Kevin Martin from like 2k10 when he had the fuc.ked up release lol.

[Rake2204]

shoulders square to the basket, bend your knees, make an 'L' shape with your arm, release straight up, and follow through.
I'm pretty much in the same boat. I've been fortunate throughout my life to have many coaches who all more or less stuck to the core basics of shooting (feet square, elbow in, snap wrist, follow through). And contrary to a lot of fellow players, I never really had anyone telling me where to look when I shoot. In fact, I'm still not sure whether I aim toward the front of the rim or back of the rim. I feel like I just aim "in".

Anyhow, I think my biggest derivation from standard shooting form is my wide base. When I was in elementary school I used to try to model my shot after my favorite player (David Robinson) but I realized his J was a little too unconventional for my tastes (seemed like his off hand was on top of the ball). As such, I used his teammate Sean Elliott as my guide. Hence, the wide base and the slightly lower than conventional elevation.

We've had a thread about shooting happening in the Streetball forum for a few weeks, so here's a .gif I contributed over there of me shooting as a sophomore in high school.

http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/237177/jumpersoph.gif

[IGotACoolStory]

I was working with a kid this summer, it was minimal and only for about 30 minutes. I wanted to help him because I think he has a shot at going pro if he becomes a good shooter. We didn't do more about it and now I know why, he told one of my players who also plays with him on a different team that he couldn't make "big" changes in his shot at his age.
I've heard it plenty of times before and it's kind of what you're discribing now, "after that much repitition no one is going to change my shot", it's very common. To me though that's like giving up, if after that much repitition you're not close to being a good shooter then what makes you think it's going to change?

What? I didn't say I was Chuck Hayes. I was efficient from the free throw line (I believe somewhere upwards of 84-ish for my high school career) and "automatic", so to speak, in the mid range. Ironically, since I compared my release to that of Matt Bonner, I admit that my perimeter shooting was not good. Also I'm someone who shoots free throws differently from my flatfooted shot during game action.

I'm in the boat that believes you shoot with what works. Ray Allen's shooting mechanics aren't perfect (it's great, just not classically perfect), but he's consistent with what he does. You pick out two random shots of his in a similar situation and I guarantee the two shots will be exactly the same.

Peja and Redd were great shooters in their heyday, and neither have mechanics you would want to teach a kid.

Now I'm not saying just because you make a few shots, you should try to perfect that technique. There are certainly qualities to take from the so-called "perfect shooting stroke" what will likely to make improvements on any jump shot. I just don't believe you need to shoot with perfect technique to be a good shooter. You don't even necessarily need to attempt to shoot like that to even reach your plateau as a shooter.

[SilkyJohnson]

Youtube videos.

I shoot approx. 20% from the field.

[ihoopallday]

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I've been fortunate throughout my life to have many coaches who all more or less stuck to the core basics of shooting (feet square, elbow in, snap wrist, follow through). And contrary to a lot of fellow players, I never really had anyone telling me where to look when I shoot. In fact, I'm still not sure whether I aim toward the front of the rim or back of the rim. I feel like I just aim "in".

Anyhow, I think my biggest derivation from standard shooting form is my wide base. When I was in elementary school I used to try to model my shot after my favorite player (David Robinson) but I realized his J was a little too unconventional for my tastes (seemed like his off hand was on top of the ball). As such, I used his teammate Sean Elliott as my guide. Hence, the wide base and the slightly lower than conventional elevation.

We've had a thread about shooting happening in the Streetball forum for a few weeks, so here's a .gif I contributed over there of me shooting as a sophomore in high school.

http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/237177/jumpersoph.gif

Nice form! :applause:

[Noof]

Like a grandmother.

[pauk]

Cool

So how do you shoot?

How good or how the stroke/form/release/jumper looks like?

Stroke is textbook, i made sure it is, looks something like this when i shoot (which is what i consider extremly textbook):
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/1788873_o.gif

How good, i can firmly say around a 88-95% FT shooter and just a pure shooter overall, dont know my ingame percentage from 3's but i would assume its somewhere 40-50%, in practice / open shots / set shots i hit higher than that and can go in rythm of hitting plenty of them in a row.

Its no braging really, i am just honest, i am a true bball addict that spends up to 8 hours almost everyday mostly just shooting, in rain, in snow, who cares, have warm clothes and am taking a shower later anyways no matter the weather condition, there is a rim and a ball and as long as those work there is no trouble.

Said this many times here before, some didnt believe me, i can record myself shooting and upload the video here if anybody is interested. :)

[SilkyJohnson]

Said this many times here before, some didnt believe me, i can record myself shooting and upload the video here if anybody is interested. :)

I am. I started playing basketball at the turn of the year and enjoy watching amateur footage of one on one basketball as well as shooting drills. This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RmkzNqATS0) of Steve Nash's workout which he condensed to 20 minutes is great, but it's rare to find something by professionals which is in-depth and has as much variety Nash displayed.

[neilio23]

http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/237177/jumpersoph.gif

LOL at the guy trying to block your shot from 10 feet away.

[magictricked]

LOL at the guy trying to block your shot from 10 feet away.Hes' trying to distract the shooter. Hands always in the air if you're in the vicinity.

[Fiba basketball]

I learned myself . At the begging I went outside and shoot for an hour or two and after some time ( when I started to fell good with my release ) I started shooting untill I hit 100 shoots . I'm very good shooter now but inconsistant ( only when it comes to 3pt shooting ) and I think my shooting form is nice but I'm still working on it . Best tip I got is to aim the back of the rim and I can tell you it helps alot .

[pauk]

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I've been fortunate throughout my life to have many coaches who all more or less stuck to the core basics of shooting (feet square, elbow in, snap wrist, follow through). And contrary to a lot of fellow players, I never really had anyone telling me where to look when I shoot. In fact, I'm still not sure whether I aim toward the front of the rim or back of the rim. I feel like I just aim "in".

Anyhow, I think my biggest derivation from standard shooting form is my wide base. When I was in elementary school I used to try to model my shot after my favorite player (David Robinson) but I realized his J was a little too unconventional for my tastes (seemed like his off hand was on top of the ball). As such, I used his teammate Sean Elliott as my guide. Hence, the wide base and the slightly lower than conventional elevation.

We've had a thread about shooting happening in the Streetball forum for a few weeks, so here's a .gif I contributed over there of me shooting as a sophomore in high school.

http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/237177/jumpersoph.gif

Good form but you seem to raise up to shoot almost before even jumping which means you are using your legs/jump leverage to catapult the shot, a so called "push shot" rather than a "jump shot", this is a common thing amongst those who have not strength enough to shoot longrange shots comfortably.... or maybe its just a habit for you by now or maybe it looks like that because you simply dont like more elevation.

It should look like this:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/art/sports/links/rayallen_jumpshot.jpg

Which means, jump before your form is set above, swing your arms up just as you jump, not before... this uses your arms for extra elevation, this gives you a better elevation because you are now using your arms to catapult yourself up instead of only your legs.... and then when you are upstairs you should start shooting the ball at the highest point, release should happen just as you are starting to come down.... now you are only using your arms and armstrength to shoot... and the jump is only for the elevation and should only be used for the elevation like that... not to push the shot...

You see, this is not just a "textbook jumpshot"... this will increase your accuracy to your maximum potential...

Many kids i sometimes coach i get furious at for doing "push shots", they want to immediately start shooting ranged shots, dont have the strength and so have to shoot it like that, i tell them to get under the basket and shoot as i tell them and slowly increase the distance, once your form/jumpshot changes even microscopically then that is your maximum range to you shooting a textbook jumpshot comfortably........

The secret to becoming a pure shooter is to always shoot it the same your entire life, even if its not a textbook looking jumpshot & form (watch Larry Bird).... BUT if you start of with the textbook form & jumpshot and keep it that way you will guaranteed become the best shooter you could possibly ever be.... Thats why i strongly advise the younglings to stick to this form and be patient with the distance they can shoot it from, it comes naturally as you get bigger & stronger... Shooting is kindof scientific that way...

If you want to model/patern a jumpshot from somebody then you should ONLY watch Ray Allen.... dont care about who your favorite player is.

PS: This is more like a message to others, not only you Rake, i just want to help you become the best you could ever become in the shooting department. But i think you have come to a certain age shooting a certain way and should then NOT change anything, that could mess up your accuracy (The elevation technique you have now is not so bad anyways)... then you will have to kindof start from the beginning, not the entire beginning but anyways...

[Pushxx]

Self taught. I had retarded coaches in every sport I ever played.

[macpierce]

Pete Maravich tapes on youtube, I use to shoot like shawn marion up until the age of 19

[fsvr54]

Good form but you seem to raise up to shoot almost before even jumping which means you are using your legs/jump leverage to catapult the shot, a so called "push shot" rather than a "jump shot", this is a common thing amongst those who have not strength enough to shoot longrange shots comfortably.... or maybe its just a habit for you by now or maybe it looks like that because you simply dont like more elevation.

It should look like this:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/art/sports/links/rayallen_jumpshot.jpg

Which means, jump before your form is set above, swing your arms up just as you jump, not before... this uses your arms for extra elevation, this gives you a better elevation because you are now using your arms to catapult yourself up instead of only your legs.... and then when you are upstairs you should start shooting the ball at the highest point, release should happen just as you are starting to come down.... now you are only using your arms and armstrength to shoot... and the jump is only for the elevation and should only be used for the elevation like that... not to push the shot...

You see, this is not just a "textbook jumpshot"... this will increase your accuracy to your maximum potential...

Many kids i sometimes coach i get furious at for doing "push shots", they want to immediately start shooting ranged shots, dont have the strength and so have to shoot it like that, i tell them to get under the basket and shoot as i tell them and slowly increase the distance, once your form/jumpshot changes even microscopically then that is your maximum range to you shooting a textbook jumpshot comfortably........

The secret to becoming a pure shooter is to always shoot it the same your entire life, even if its not a textbook looking jumpshot & form (watch Larry Bird).... BUT if you start of with the textbook form & jumpshot and keep it that way you will guaranteed become the best shooter you could possibly ever be.... Thats why i strongly advise the younglings to stick to this form and be patient with the distance they can shoot it from, it comes naturally as you get bigger & stronger... Shooting is kindof scientific that way...

If you want to model/patern a jumpshot from somebody then you should ONLY watch Ray Allen.... dont care about who your favorite player is.

PS: This is more like a message to others, not only you Rake, i just want to help you become the best you could ever become in the shooting department. But i think you have come to a certain age shooting a certain way and should then NOT change anything, that could mess up your accuracy (The elevation technique you have now is not so bad anyways)... then you will have to kindof start from the beginning, not the entire beginning but anyways...

Damn, I never knew this, I have to try it out. Isn't it easier to block that way though?

[inclinerator]

self taught, thru watching vids and improving, my first jumper was ugly as *** lol, now its beautiful

[inclinerator]

How good or how the stroke/form/release/jumper looks like?

Stroke is textbook, i made sure it is, looks something like this when i shoot (which is what i consider extremly textbook):
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/1788873_o.gif

How good, i can firmly say around a 88-95% FT shooter and just a pure shooter overall, dont know my ingame percentage from 3's but i would assume its somewhere 40-50%, in practice / open shots / set shots i hit higher than that and can go in rythm of hitting plenty of them in a row.

Its no braging really, i am just honest, i am a true bball addict that spends up to 8 hours almost everyday mostly just shooting, in rain, in snow, who cares, have warm clothes and am taking a shower later anyways no matter the weather condition, there is a rim and a ball and as long as those work there is no trouble.

Said this many times here before, some didnt believe me, i can record myself shooting and upload the video here if anybody is interested. :)


u said ull record urself many times, but never do

[plowking]

Good form but you seem to raise up to shoot almost before even jumping which means you are using your legs/jump leverage to catapult the shot, a so called "push shot" rather than a "jump shot", this is a common thing amongst those who have not strength enough to shoot longrange shots comfortably.... or maybe its just a habit for you by now or maybe it looks like that because you simply dont like more elevation.



Actually if you watch his gif again, and look at the Ray Allen timeline, you'll see that they leave the ground with the ball at approximately the same place in their motion.
Only difference is, Rake was doing a set shot with no dribble. Extremely similar timing.

I was always taught the less moving parts in the air, the better. Its like a machine. The less moving parts there are, the less there is to break, hence the less to patch up, worry about, and have to fix. If you get everything set, just worry about the flick of the wrist.

[Rake2204]

PS: This is more like a message to others, not only you Rake, i just want to help you become the best you could ever become in the shooting department. But i think you have come to a certain age shooting a certain way and should then NOT change anything, that could mess up your accuracy (The elevation technique you have now is not so bad anyways)... then you will have to kindof start from the beginning, not the entire beginning but anyways...I appreciate the kind words of advice. And not to negate anything you said, but that clip is from when I was 15, which was approximately 13 years ago. So in terms of diagnosis, it might be a little out of date. There is in fact more elevation on my shot these days, though the form itself I reckon has remained. It has served me very well throughout the years.

As I mentioned in my original post, the stiff/bow-legged fashion of my shot back then was by design. That was my interpretation of how I thought Sean Elliott shot. In reality, there's clearly a number of differences between the two of us, but for reference, this is what I was going for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1EL38SKyX8#t=1m30s.

[G-train]

Basically my first coach taught me to shoot, you stand 3 feet from basket, hold ball on finger tips of one hand, feet slightly wider than shoulders, bend knees slightly and flick ball in one handed. Eventually introduce support hand, keep the same motion but bend knees more as you go further out.

[G-train]

I'd say Rakes shot is more technically correct in a pure sense than Ray Allen's, as it has no hitch.

[G-train]

Good form but you seem to raise up to shoot almost before even jumping which means you are using your legs/jump leverage to catapult the shot, a so called "push shot" rather than a "jump shot", this is a common thing amongst those who have not strength enough to shoot longrange shots comfortably.... or maybe its just a habit for you by now or maybe it looks like that because you simply dont like more elevation.



Technically that is the correct way to shoot, your strength coming via your legs.

[ZenMaster]

Technically that is the correct way to shoot, your strength coming via your legs.

Your strength comes from your legs, elbow and wrist. Your legs and lower body should be moving forwad when you shoot, don't bend your knees too much, also your feet should come rather close when shooting as it gives you balance along with your off-hand.

[pauk]

I appreciate the kind words of advice. And not to negate anything you said, but that clip is from when I was 15, which was approximately 13 years ago. So in terms of diagnosis, it might be a little out of date. There is in fact more elevation on my shot these days, though the form itself I reckon has remained. It has served me very well throughout the years.

As I mentioned in my original post, the stiff/bow-legged fashion of my shot back then was by design. That was my interpretation of how I thought Sean Elliott shot. In reality, there's clearly a number of differences between the two of us, but for reference, this is what I was going for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1EL38SKyX8#t=1m30s.

Not criticizing my man, im just a shooting perfectionist so to speak, kindof nitpicking everything. You have a very nice shot, keep on doing the good work!

[pauk]

u said ull record urself many times, but never do

Haha yea i remember now, i just feel a bit dubious about this whole thing of avertising & proving myself for internet boys, dont want to come out like a show off afterall. That is not my intention.... but i will do it, if i dont have an oppurtunity to do it in the gym i will wait for good weather and try use my iphone4s to record.

[therammingman]

How did your (former) coach teach you how to shoot? What kind of method did he want you to use?

Do you feel you were taught to shoot in a manner which resembles the pros?

watching MJ growing up

[tmacattack33]

Good form but you seem to raise up to shoot almost before even jumping which means you are using your legs/jump leverage to catapult the shot, a so called "push shot" rather than a "jump shot", this is a common thing amongst those who have not strength enough to shoot longrange shots comfortably.... or maybe its just a habit for you by now or maybe it looks like that because you simply dont like more elevation.

It should look like this:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/art/sports/links/rayallen_jumpshot.jpg

Which means, jump before your form is set above, swing your arms up just as you jump, not before... this uses your arms for extra elevation, this gives you a better elevation because you are now using your arms to catapult yourself up instead of only your legs.... and then when you are upstairs you should start shooting the ball at the highest point, release should happen just as you are starting to come down.... now you are only using your arms and armstrength to shoot... and the jump is only for the elevation and should only be used for the elevation like that... not to push the shot...

You see, this is not just a "textbook jumpshot"... this will increase your accuracy to your maximum potential...

Many kids i sometimes coach i get furious at for doing "push shots", they want to immediately start shooting ranged shots, dont have the strength and so have to shoot it like that, i tell them to get under the basket and shoot as i tell them and slowly increase the distance, once your form/jumpshot changes even microscopically then that is your maximum range to you shooting a textbook jumpshot comfortably........

The secret to becoming a pure shooter is to always shoot it the same your entire life, even if its not a textbook looking jumpshot & form (watch Larry Bird).... BUT if you start of with the textbook form & jumpshot and keep it that way you will guaranteed become the best shooter you could possibly ever be.... Thats why i strongly advise the younglings to stick to this form and be patient with the distance they can shoot it from, it comes naturally as you get bigger & stronger... Shooting is kindof scientific that way...

If you want to model/patern a jumpshot from somebody then you should ONLY watch Ray Allen.... dont care about who your favorite player is.

PS: This is more like a message to others, not only you Rake, i just want to help you become the best you could ever become in the shooting department. But i think you have come to a certain age shooting a certain way and should then NOT change anything, that could mess up your accuracy (The elevation technique you have now is not so bad anyways)... then you will have to kindof start from the beginning, not the entire beginning but anyways...

Wow. Pauk is dropping knowledge. Good sh*t.

[Rake2204]

Your strength comes from your legs, elbow and wrist. Your legs and lower body should be moving forwad when you shoot, don't bend your knees too much, also your feet should come rather close when shooting as it gives you balance along with your off-hand.Can I ask for verification as to what you mean by "your feet should come rather close"? Do you mean one's shooting stance should have feet close together? Because that's the antithesis of what I teach my players. I usually have one player stand with his feet touching each other, and I give him a small push, making him have to lift his feet to re-balance. Then I have him widen his stance and give him another nudge, at which point he doesn't move an inch. That's how I illustrate the importance of a wider stance to my kids, as it all but ensures balance on any given shot.

I feel like I'm just misinterpreting what you're trying to say there.

[ZenMaster]

Can I ask for verification as to what you mean by "your feet should come rather close"? Do you mean one's shooting stance should have feet close together? Because that's the antithesis of what I teach my players. I usually have one player stand with his feet touching each other, and I give him a small push, making him have to lift his feet to re-balance. Then I have him widen his stance and give him another nudge, at which point he doesn't move an inch. That's how I illustrate the importance of a wider stance to my kids, as it all but ensures balance on any given shot.

I feel like I'm just misinterpreting what you're trying to say there.

You can start with your feet shoulder with apart, you will have to when shooting from a tripple threat position, but as you elevate your feet should move a bit towards each other, it increases balance in air. Another thing concerning having your feet wide apart is that it increases strain on the inside of your knees.
I know "the book" says having your feet wide apart and facing the basket, but most great shooters have their feet rather close and facing a bit to the side:

http://d0inw0rk.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/stephen-curry-warriors-shooting-jumper.jpg
http://blog.eastbay.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Stephen-Curry-Nike-Hyperdunk-iD.jpg
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/gallery_images/photos/000/776/869/GYI0063805898_crop_450x500.jpg?1299292444
http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/p1_nash-223x400.jpg
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2007/0901/nba_g_anthony2_195.jpg
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRv6dcN889T7oN_kQRdj8CRxxh_HuVJh Wofyi3lLO-yIq1lB_B25w&t=1
http://crushable.com/files/2008/06/kobe-bryant-nc.png

[imnew09]

I used to shoot like Shawn Marion... but after some practices, I shoot like DIRK now :rockon:

[Rake2204]

Good form but you seem to raise up to shoot almost before even jumping which means you are using your legs/jump leverage to catapult the shot, a so called "push shot" rather than a "jump shot", this is a common thing amongst those who have not strength enough to shoot longrange shots comfortably.... or maybe its just a habit for you by now or maybe it looks like that because you simply dont like more elevation.

Which means, jump before your form is set above, swing your arms up just as you jump, not before... this uses your arms for extra elevation, this gives you a better elevation because you are now using your arms to catapult yourself up instead of only your legs.... and then when you are upstairs you should start shooting the ball at the highest point, release should happen just as you are starting to come down.... now you are only using your arms and armstrength to shoot... and the jump is only for the elevation and should only be used for the elevation like that... not to push the shot...

You see, this is not just a "textbook jumpshot"... this will increase your accuracy to your maximum potential...

Many kids i sometimes coach i get furious at for doing "push shots", they want to immediately start shooting ranged shots, dont have the strength and so have to shoot it like that, i tell them to get under the basket and shoot as i tell them and slowly increase the distance, once your form/jumpshot changes even microscopically then that is your maximum range to you shooting a textbook jumpshot comfortably........

The secret to becoming a pure shooter is to always shoot it the same your entire life, even if its not a textbook looking jumpshot & form (watch Larry Bird).... BUT if you start of with the textbook form & jumpshot and keep it that way you will guaranteed become the best shooter you could possibly ever be.... Thats why i strongly advise the younglings to stick to this form and be patient with the distance they can shoot it from, it comes naturally as you get bigger & stronger... Shooting is kindof scientific that way...

If you want to model/patern a jumpshot from somebody then you should ONLY watch Ray Allen.... dont care about who your favorite player is.

PS: This is more like a message to others, not only you Rake, i just want to help you become the best you could ever become in the shooting department. But i think you have come to a certain age shooting a certain way and should then NOT change anything, that could mess up your accuracy (The elevation technique you have now is not so bad anyways)... then you will have to kindof start from the beginning, not the entire beginning but anyways...After reading G-Train's couple of posts on the last page, he convinced me to take a closer look at what you're saying and I'm not sure I'm in agreement with everything you mention. If nothing else, a few things may be unclear.

For starters, I initially thought you were saying I was not deriving very much energy from my legs on my shot, to which I would have agreed. However, upon re-reading, you say:

you are using your legs/jump leverage to catapult the shot, a so called "push shot" rather than a "jump shot."It now feels as if you're saying a jump shot should not use one's legs or jump to assist in the power of a shot. To that, I'd disagree.

In fact, again, that's something very important I teach my players each year (that shot power will primarily come from the legs when one's range extends, not the arms). In my experience, it is the players who are stuck on shooting with all arms who most frequently experience great struggles in achieving an effective jump shot. Using legs obviously doesn't always cure every jumpshot, but it surely goes a long way in eliminating the "heave" theatrics I tend to see when players first enter my program.

I also may disagree with the point at which a player should release a shot. You said:

release should happen just as you are starting to come downI've personally never instructed a player to release the ball as they're coming down from their jump. The idea seems to go against all logic and physics in terms of shooting an effective and easy jumpshot. Perhaps you are saying the player will more or less fall to the ground after the shot is in the air?


now you are only using your arms and armstrength to shoot... and the jump is only for the elevation and should only be used for the elevation like that... not to push the shot... To reiterate, I do not agree with these lines of shooting strategy. It is once again of my opinion that the "jump" part of a jumpshot is not just to elude an attacking defense. Rather, it can also very much help in providing the power behind one's shot.


If you want to model/patern a jumpshot from somebody then you should ONLY watch Ray Allen.... dont care about who your favorite player is.I think I'm beginning to understand where you're coming from as I read through more of your post. You insist Ray Allen is the only player anyone should ever look to for emulating a jumpshot, more or less anointing him the Messiah of jumpshooting, and for good reason - he's an incredible shooter. However, there's been a lot of incredible shooters who came before Ray Allen and there'll be just as many who come after, and they will not follow the same patterns as Ray Allen. Therefore, I must largely disagree that players should only follow Allen's stroke. It's awesome and it works for him, but it's not the word of god and I do not envision it being effective for each of my players, most of whom will not grow up to be 6'5'' NBA prospects with 35'' verticals.

For instance, I'm not sure I could, in good faith, ever teach my players to shoot their free throws while using absolutely no legs (not even a little) as Allen has made a career of doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3d_pOYFRVc. I believe there are many "correct" ways of teaching a person to shoot, so to suggest Ray Allen's form is the only way is way off the mark to me.

On the flip side, I've realized Steve Nash shoots free throws exactly how I do and that's essentially the form I teach my players (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf0lAO21AZk), not so much because it's my form, but because I view it to be traditionally very effective. And contrary to what you maintain, I feel it is quite clear that Steve Nash uses his legs within the flow of his shot, both to power said shot and to create a natural one-process flow. In this next clip, it can once again be illustrated how a jump shot can be extremely standard and effective when a player utilizes their entire body in concert and releases the ball before they begin their downward descent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_BN4XdR4Q. I feel this is a much more effective way of teaching young players to shoot than the slight freeze out at the top of the jump strategy that Allen has employed over the years (in combination with his stiff free throws). Again, it's obviously worked for Allen though, so there's no disputing that.

Lastly, I also disagree with:
The secret to becoming a pure shooter is to always shoot it the same your entire life, even if its not a textbook looking jumpshotI believe everyone can and should alter their form if they feel it can lead to better overall success. For instance, I have a brother entering 9th grade who more or less pointed his feet 90 degrees away from the basket when he shot (a common problem). As a result, his body would always have to torque to correct the lack of a proper square up and even the simplest open jump shot turned into meticulous calculations on his part (did I compensate well enough for my crooked feet? Is my elbow angled correctly?)

To allow my boy to go through life with such a jumper would be an absolute travesty. Surely, he's comfortable with shooting like that, and he's experienced some success with it, but it won't last in the long run. As such, we've put in a serious amount of work re-tooling his jumper to at least get his elbow in and feet properly squared. And it was a struggle at first, because the proper squaring of his feet was so foreign, but it was a proverbial one-step-back, two-steps-forward situation. His new jumper is much, much more reliable and allows for quicker and more accurate shots. His situation and outcome is one of millions.

In summation, I respect most of your shot coaching techniques, but I do not find them to be as definitive as you insinuated them to be. In fact, I found many tips of yours to be in direct contrast to much of the basketball teachings I've been fortunate enough to garner throughout my life.

[KOBE143]

No one taught me to shoot.. I just learned it by instinct.. :lol

[Rake2204]

You can start with your feet shoulder with apart, you will have to when shooting from a tripple threat position, but as you elevate your feet should move a bit towards each other, it increases balance in air. Another thing concerning having your feet wide apart is that it increases strain on the inside of your knees.
I know "the book" says having your feet wide apart and facing the basket, but most great shooters have their feet rather close and facing a bit to the side:I feel a person's legs are naturally going to come a little closer together once they leave they ground, because close together is their scientific status quo. I don't believe it is a conscious thing players do once they're airborne. It's like if I hold my arms upward like I'm a plane flying through their air, then let my arms go loose, they'll fall back down by my sides, where they naturally belong.

I'd also warn against using still photos for shooting analysis and advice, as there's no accounting for what type of shots were being taken, how the flow of that particular shot affected their feet, whether a player had an opportunity to properly square himself, whether he's off-balance, whether he was square, but leaned as he shot (or fell away), or whether what appears to be bent feet are actually just dangling loosely in the air.

As I did in my previous post, I'll once again reference this Steve Nash video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_BN4XdR4Q. Every shot features his feet precisely square to the basket. The idea is to make a jump shot as simple on oneself as possible. It doesn't get much simpler than, "Point directly toward target (feet square), fire straight ahead (elbow in, follow through)." Any slightly crooked squaring or elbow bending is just making things unnecessarily difficult.

But through it all, if you're just talking about what the feet do when they're airborne, I think it's relatively inconsequential. As long as my players aren't going out of their way to voluntarily kick their legs all about on a routine spot up jumper, it's really not a factor one way or another. I could essentially be doing the splits but when I jump, but those legs will naturally be flopping back inward, perhaps crooking in the wind along the way.

[ZenMaster]

I feel a person's legs are naturally going to come a little closer together once they leave they ground, because close together is their scientific status quo. I don't believe it is a conscious thing players do once they're airborne. It's like if I hold my arms upward like I'm a plane flying through their air, then let my arms go loose, they'll fall back down by my sides, where they naturally belong.

I'd also warn against using still photos for shooting analysis and advice, as there's no accounting for what type of shots were being taken, how the flow of that particular shot affected their feet, whether a player had an opportunity to properly square himself, whether he's off-balance, whether he was square, but leaned as he shot (or fell away), or whether what appears to be bent feet are actually just dangling loosely in the air.

As I did in my previous post, I'll once again reference this Steve Nash video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_BN4XdR4Q. Every shot features his feet precisely square to the basket. The idea is to make a jump shot as simple on oneself as possible. It doesn't get much simpler than, "Point directly toward target (feet square), fire straight ahead (elbow in, follow through)." Any slightly crooked squaring or elbow bending is just making things unnecessarily difficult.

But through it all, if you're just talking about what the feet do when they're airborne, I think it's relatively inconsequential. As long as my players aren't going out of their way to voluntarily kick their legs all about on a routine spot up jumper, it's really not a factor one way or another. I could essentially be doing the splits but when I jump, but those legs will naturally be flopping back inward, perhaps crooking in the wind along the way.

From watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RmkzNqATS0

I think it's pretty clear Steve Nash points his a bit to the left, the shot at 13.38 has a great angle for it.

[Rake2204]

From watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RmkzNqATS0

I think it's pretty clear Steve Nash points his a bit to the left, the shot at 13.38 has a great angle for it.I'll concede there are times when a players squares up, where the right foot may want to sneak itself back inward, but it's not something players look to make happen on purpose. Due to my wide stance, I experience this on a regular basis. However, it's most certainly not a matter of me squaring up slightly in a different direction, nor is it with Nash on the few times he does it.

To put it succinctly, the first foot to plant (left) will almost always be pointed exactly at its target while the right foot may accidentally drift from time to time. I feel comfortable in assuming Steve Nash doesn't watch tape and say, "You know what, I need to point my right foot in the wrong direction a little more." It'll happen from time to time, particularly during an endurance shooting drill where many of the beginning shots are taken at half effort. However, when it comes down to it, I believe this is what he's looking to do in terms of squaring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TTH_5aynyw

Also, in terms of the wide stance, shoulder width is usually just about right. What I want to create for my players is a situation where they'll be able to set their feet for a jump shot and know for a fact they'll be balanced due to their shoulder width base. Basically, what we're looking to avoid is the two feet squared up nearly touching one another. Of course, there's always folks who can make it work. But when it comes down to teaching things the right way, I feel the shoulder width stance is correct. It's similar to those times when a student can figure out a complicated math problem through unique means that classmates cannot follow. It's good for them, but it's not what I can teach.

[ZenMaster]

I'll concede there are times when a players squares up, where the right foot may want to sneak itself back inward, but it's not something players look to make happen on purpose. Due to my wide stance, I experience this on a regular basis. However, it's most certainly not a matter of me squaring up slightly in a different direction, nor is it with Nash on the few times he does it.

To put it succinctly, the first foot to plant (left) will almost always be pointed exactly at its target while the right foot may accidentally drift from time to time. I feel comfortable in assuming Steve Nash doesn't watch tape and say, "You know what, I need to point my right foot in the wrong direction a little more." It'll happen from time to time, particularly during an endurance shooting drill where many of the beginning shots are taken at half effort. However, when it comes down to it, I believe this is what he's looking to do in terms of squaring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TTH_5aynyw

Also, in terms of the wide stance, shoulder width is usually just about right. What I want to create for my players is a situation where they'll be able to set their feet for a jump shot and know for a fact they'll be balanced due to their shoulder width base. Basically, what we're looking to avoid is the two feet squared up nearly touching one another. Of course, there's always folks who can make it work. But when it comes down to teaching things the right way, I feel the shoulder width stance is correct. It's similar to those times when a student can figure out a complicated math problem through unique means that classmates cannot follow. It's good for them, but it's not what I can teach.

We kind of have to agree to disagree. I think having your feet point slightly to the side and squaring up your hips is a good way to shoot and I think it's something to think about as it helps keep the shoulders and neck relaxed while also helping your aim through the right eye for right handed shooters.

In all aiming sports, rifle, bow and darts contestants have their feet pointing away from the target and it helps them shoot straight, to me basketball is no different.

[East_Stone_Ya]

by watching S.Marion shoot:rockon:

[Fiba basketball]

Did you guys notice how lefthanded players shoot different . Barcelona has 3 lefthanded players and they all have the similar release , Manu also has very similar release as them .

[RazorBaLade]

Pauk, I always wanted to shoot like nba players right.. The whole jump and shoot from above the head. But I learned to shoot more from the chest, and I shot from the chest right up until 9th grade. This gave me UNLIMITED range and I was fairly accurate. The only issue is that I struggled with corner shots because it was more from the right shoulder I shot from obv as I'm right handed.. And it was easier for me to be blocked. But I just really enjoyed having the range, like halfcourt jumpshots, and it was natural for me to shoot that way as I always felt awkward when I shot above my head.

So in 9th grade I stopped playing ball and came back to it just recently. I went from like 5'5 to 6'0 or something like that, I don't remember just how tall I was. But anyways, now its completely natural for me to shoot with the over head release. BUT I MISS THAT RANGE SO MUCH. I can shoot straight 3 with little issue, but then one step behind and its impossible to hit the rim. But sometimes my 3s are short too, I can only really shoot effortlessly from 18 ft and in.

Is this about strength? Is this about form? What can I do?

[BoutPractice]

My coach did at first, but it was terrible.
Then I put my faith in Geschwindner's calculations and copied Dirk's shot. Very quickly became a more than respectable jump shooter thanks to that.

[blacknapalm]

I think I'm beginning to understand where you're coming from as I read through more of your post. You insist Ray Allen is the only player anyone should ever look to for emulating a jumpshot, more or less anointing him the Messiah of jumpshooting, and for good reason - he's an incredible shooter. However, there's been a lot of incredible shooters who came before Ray Allen and there'll be just as many who come after, and they will not follow the same patterns as Ray Allen. Therefore, I must largely disagree that players should only follow Allen's stroke. It's awesome and it works for him, but it's not the word of god and I do not envision it being effective for each of my players, most of whom will not grow up to be 6'5'' NBA prospects with 35'' verticals.

For instance, I'm not sure I could, in good faith, ever teach my players to shoot their free throws while using absolutely no legs (not even a little) as Allen has made a career of doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3d_pOYFRVc. I believe there are many "correct" ways of teaching a person to shoot, so to suggest Ray Allen's form is the only way is way off the mark to me.

On the flip side, I've realized Steve Nash shoots free throws exactly how I do and that's essentially the form I teach my players (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf0lAO21AZk), not so much because it's my form, but because I view it to be traditionally very effective. And contrary to what you maintain, I feel it is quite clear that Steve Nash uses his legs within the flow of his shot, both to power said shot and to create a natural one-process flow. In this next clip, it can once again be illustrated how a jump shot can be extremely standard and effective when a player utilizes their entire body in concert and releases the ball before they begin their downward descent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_BN4XdR4Q. I feel this is a much more effective way of teaching young players to shoot than the slight freeze out at the top of the jump strategy that Allen has employed over the years (in combination with his stiff free throws). Again, it's obviously worked for Allen though, so there's no disputing that.

Lastly, I also disagree with:I believe everyone can and should alter their form if they feel it can lead to better overall success. For instance, I have a brother entering 9th grade who more or less pointed his feet 90 degrees away from the basket when he shot (a common problem). As a result, his body would always have to torque to correct the lack of a proper square up and even the simplest open jump shot turned into meticulous calculations on his part (did I compensate well enough for my crooked feet? Is my elbow angled correctly?)

To allow my boy to go through life with such a jumper would be an absolute travesty. Surely, he's comfortable with shooting like that, and he's experienced some success with it, but it won't last in the long run. As such, we've put in a serious amount of work re-tooling his jumper to at least get his elbow in and feet properly squared. And it was a struggle at first, because the proper squaring of his feet was so foreign, but it was a proverbial one-step-back, two-steps-forward situation. His new jumper is much, much more reliable and allows for quicker and more accurate shots. His situation and outcome is one of millions.

In summation, I respect most of your shot coaching techniques, but I do not find them to be as definitive as you insinuated them to be. In fact, I found many tips of yours to be in direct contrast to much of the basketball teachings I've been fortunate enough to garner throughout my life.

very much agree with this. while allen is obviously an all-time great shooter, my HS coach (who was a shooting coach for a D1 team at one point) insisted that he preferred steph curry's shot over allen's. this was when curry was coming out of college, mind you. he said allen had a slight 'swing' across his body as he brought the ball up. again, this is not to say that allen isn't a great example...more a minor criticism and another voice that says you should not just use one player to learn from.

i definitely shot more like nash than i did like allen, simply because i didn't have the vertical. i think allen is able to set his arm motion up because he has time to square up due to his vertical. my motion was fluid and i feel like i released at the apex of my jump, but i certainly didn't focus on jumping really high and perfectly timing my release. like i said, i just didn't have the vertical for that. i would have to really focus on my jumping and i felt that took away form my actual shooting form. i'm sure if you took still frames of my shot back then, it would be far from textbook but i think i had the basic fundamentals and consistency down.

again, nothing against allen. he's damn near textbook and it works for him because of his physical tools i mean, even now, his calves are like balloons! the most dangerous part of allen's shooting to me is his quick release. even when he does jump high, he gathers and leaps so quickly that the defense better be ready to close out quick or you're done.

i think you obviously want to hone the fundamental techniques, but it's also important to tweak it a bit for the individual player imo. consistency and confidence is key. the more your shot looks the same every time you go up, the more consistency you'll find.

as far as how i learned...i'll keep it short. 4th grade youth coach. he told us to line up with the lacing, keep a small distance between your shooting palm and the ball. i don't really know how to discuss placement without a diagram but i'm sure you know what i mean. remove your off hand mid way through your shooting motion, just before you flick your wrist and follow through. that's the basics anyway.

i ended up being a good set shooter. by myself, i could shoot near 90% on good days. i used to hoist up 200 or more FT's per day, to the point i sprained my patellar tendon. i eventually won a second place tourney in my county for FT shooting in 6th grade. pretty sure i shot around 84% in that tourney (21/25). i went into sudden death with the other guy after 20 shots since we were tied at 17 or 18 or something. i kinda choked and hit 3/5 while he hit 4/5. one shot made the difference between this giant ass three foot, double tower trophy and this three inch trophy i got. i was seriously like wtf man, lol. my trophy looked like a consolation 5th prize compared to that thing. this was hosted by boys & girls club and i have no idea if they still run it.

anyway, this was all enjoyable to read. kudos to you and some of the other guys for discussing some of the finer details and methodology. yes, that includes you, pauk. :oldlol: good to know you have some nice knowledge behind this and you aren't always a total blowhard. i can't really go back and quote all posts because i stumbled across this way too late.

also, maybe you could explain this...but what do you think happened to guys like marion? did he just skate by on talent and play on AAU teams where nobody coached him up? i mean, his shooting form worked for him but i can only imagine how much better of a shooter he would have been if he had a good shooting coach at least in the latter stages of HS to drill him.

[Jyap9675]

Main reason why shooters have their right foot facing to the side (so called open stance) is because it allows them to align their shooting shoulder directly to the basket.

I still prefer stephen curry's shot, it takes less energy since you're using your legs and consistent/reliable. Only downside is that you gotta rely on screens, creating space or increasing your range to get your shot off. Or in most pick-up games "defense" doesn't really exist so you can just keep shooting :oldlol:

Ray allen's jump shot is also good in a way because you can just easily just get your shot off by just purely out-jumping your opponent. Only downside is that it could be harder since you gotta work on balance of your shot and takes more energy.

[OmniStrife]

Learned from watching pros shoot.
esp. Nash cause he's relatively small and is very efficient.

[9512]

I taught myself. No 1 was around. I didn't join a team until a year later after I started playing. Then the coach never taught me anything. I was 15 at the time so he figured by that age, most guys already know the fundamentals.

My shot used to look like a set shot version of Leandro Barbosa or like Shawn Marion.

[Rake2204]

We kind of have to agree to disagree. I think having your feet point slightly to the side and squaring up your hips is a good way to shoot and I think it's something to think about as it helps keep the shoulders and neck relaxed while also helping your aim through the right eye for right handed shooters.

In all aiming sports, rifle, bow and darts contestants have their feet pointing away from the target and it helps them shoot straight, to me basketball is no different.You know, I think we're both on the same page in at least one regard: the squaring of one's hips is an absolute necessity. And as I mentioned, the right foot may sometime turn slightly after someone has already squared themselves but at that point, I think it's not much of a problem.

However, I'd never teach my players to intentionally turn their feet away from their target as they're squaring up. The reason I would not teach this is because turning one's feet away from the target requires at least a small torque of the body, meaning every shot will require an accurate re-adjustment. As in, "Turn feet slightly, twist hips back toward target." I'd much prefer teaching my students to point both feet at the basket so there's no necessary re-aligning of the hips. One's feet are initially pointed to the hoop so we know our hips will be square. And again, if an off-foot ends up twisting after the square already occurs, so be it. I'm guilty of that.

Also, I find aiming systems vary greatly when from sport to sport. Each has their own intricacies that allow or require a different sort of execution. For instance, bow requires a sizeable amount of wind-up. I'm not sure if the body would allow the ability to hold a bow accurately while squared up perfectly. Ditto any non-hand gun. Further, darts is more of a throw than a shot. Also, in many cases, these other aiming sports often allow sufficient time to square one's hips as they see fit. Basketball does not provide the proper time to re-adjust one's hips to account for a crooked base. Similarly, if time or defense was not an issue, an accurate jumpshot could occur using just one hand. However, the need to find a quick, accurate, and consistent solution means using the off-hand to ensure the ball doesn't fall off the pedestal as we fire away. Point being, shot theory alters a little when time becomes a factor.

I think shooting a basketball has most in common with creating a common catapult. If we wanted to fire something from point A to point B, where would we point the base of our catapult? Directly toward the target. And how would the arm of the catapult be set up? Pointed outward and coming in at an angle? Or inward to allow a sling directly toward target (elbow in, follow through)? I believe the latter, clearly.

But again, the fact you believe in squaring one's shoulders mean we have more in common here than it may seem. i just happen to believe in simplifying the process.

[ralph_i_el]

I bend my arm into an L and try to point my elbow at the basket. extend arm and flick wrist. Try to get a medium amount of arc.

I bend my knees a lot when I take set shots

[ZenMaster]

You know, I think we're both on the same page in at least one regard: the squaring of one's hips is an absolute necessity. And as I mentioned, the right foot may sometime turn slightly after someone has already squared themselves but at that point, I think it's not much of a problem.

However, I'd never teach my players to intentionally turn their feet away from their target as they're squaring up. The reason I would not teach this is because turning one's feet away from the target requires at least a small torque of the body, meaning every shot will require an accurate re-adjustment. As in, "Turn feet slightly, twist hips back toward target." I'd much prefer teaching my students to point both feet at the basket so there's no necessary re-aligning of the hips. One's feet are initially pointed to the hoop so we know our hips will be square. And again, if an off-foot ends up twisting after the square already occurs, so be it. I'm guilty of that.

Also, I find aiming systems vary greatly when from sport to sport. Each has their own intricacies that allow or require a different sort of execution. For instance, bow requires a sizeable amount of wind-up. I'm not sure if the body would allow the ability to hold a bow accurately while squared up perfectly. Ditto any non-hand gun. Further, darts is more of a throw than a shot. Also, in many cases, these other aiming sports often allow sufficient time to square one's hips as they see fit. Basketball does not provide the proper time to re-adjust one's hips to account for a crooked base. Similarly, if time or defense was not an issue, an accurate jumpshot could occur using just one hand. However, the need to find a quick, accurate, and consistent solution means using the off-hand to ensure the ball doesn't fall off the pedestal as we fire away. Point being, shot theory alters a little when time becomes a factor.

I think shooting a basketball has most in common with creating a common catapult. If we wanted to fire something from point A to point B, where would we point the base of our catapult? Directly toward the target. And how would the arm of the catapult be set up? Pointed outward and coming in at an angle? Or inward to allow a sling directly toward target (elbow in, follow through)? I believe the latter, clearly.

But again, the fact you believe in squaring one's shoulders mean we have more in common here than it may seem. i just happen to believe in simplifying the process.

If you have your feet square to the rim you'll most often tense up in your back all but guaranteing a miss.
I guess we see things differently, like you say that some players will sometimes not square up their feet where I say they deliberately don't square them up meaning they practice not squaring them up.

Check these videos, basically I want my guys to shoot like the guys demonstrating in the video as I believe it makes for a better shot aligning your shoulder than your feet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5AtKnjEKcQ&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bC_E9W_wu0&feature=relmfu


Edit: just found this, he shows very well what I mean by it being easier to aim with your feet turned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDVXmaEXWOI

[lilgodfather1]

I taught myself. Watched the way TMac shot the ball, and tried to replicate it with bad results. So I changed that into what I call a broken jumper, and it works better for me. In HS ball I never had to shoot, but now when I play games I shoot from 15 feet and in, and occassionally only when I am wide open I can drain a corner three rather consistantly. My right arm (right handed) goes from an L to a triangle with my left hand. When I shoot left handed my form is technically better as my left hand makes a perfect L, but my shot is far more inconsistant with my left hand.

[Raz]

How did your (former) coach teach you how to shoot? What kind of method did he want you to use?

Do you feel you were taught to shoot in a manner which resembles the pros?

I shoot like Ronnie Brewer - it looks like a chest pass. If I could shoot, no doubt I would have been repping my country at the senior level.

I shot under 50% from the free throw line one season in high school as the starting point guard, and I was fouled a lot. It became stressful to go to the line, and I became a pro at putting hard shots off the backboard, clipping the front rim and catching the rebound (occasionally).

I never understood why highly accurate passing came naturally to me, but shooting was such a problem. No amount of shooting coaching fixed my shot, I was either extremely cold, or would go on very hot streaks. Very Rondo-esque in a feast or famine way

[Rake2204]

If you have your feet square to the rim you'll most often tense up in your back all but guaranteing a miss. As has been made clear throughout this thread, I suppose it's just a matter of there being numerous ways to reach a desired result when shooting. As someone who shoots with feet square to the rim however, I very much disagree with the notion that squaring will result in back tension and thus a guaranteed miss. That's very much untrue.

Many coaches will have different theories and some internet gurus will insist their way is the only way, but I think there's actually many effective ways to shoot very well. Just again, in my case, teaching a player to shoot is much easier and effective when simplifying the process as opposed to encouraging twists, turns, and shooting on the way down.

[AlphaWolf24]

below are my opinions....my opinions only...

#1. the often saying "shooting comes from the legs"....not really correct in a sense that most people think.

- the way the ball travels and how the ball is trajected mostly comes from your upper body and the way your technique ( arms hands follow through etc) guides the ball..

- your lower body/core does have a major effect on your ability to create power from a longer distance, create space to get your shot, generate a slightly different arc from a longer range.

- Yes in a game situation you need your legs to almost everything....jump, create space, provide power from a longer range...But from a pure technical standpoint...your leg strength does not provide much at all as far as bieng a " shooter"

- to be a great shooter you must be able to consistently put the ball on a good path/trajectory towards the ideal area for a made shot...(of course bieng able to dribble/catch have strong legs for lift/power helps tremendously....but IMO it has more upper body technique then lower.)

#2. Squaring your feet....I think good shooter practice squaring thier feet ( or one foot slightly ahead) because during a game you will not have time to always face the basket.....

but if you practice ( perfect practice makes perfect) squaring your body.....during game slippage you react naturally to get in a good position...

remember at the Prolevel 90% of the shooters have to constantly maintain thier technique...most great shooters are made...not born.


example: Right handed shooter....go left and pull up.....most of the time it feels natural to shoot because your guide hand seems to follow through pointing at the rim. ( your body/right shoulder is squared up nicely to the front of the basket)...great shooters practce getting in the habbit of feeling this naturaul at every pos on the court....everywhere they shoot they want to be sqaured up.

you can only do this by practicing perfect / sqauring up at every shot during drills

#3. there really is no right/wrong way to shoot...if it goes in...your doing it right....but having fundamentals that most use will help most players get much better.

[ZenMaster]

As has been made clear throughout this thread, I suppose it's just a matter of there being numerous ways to reach a desired result when shooting. As someone who shoots with feet square to the rim however, I very much disagree with the notion that squaring will result in back tension and thus a guaranteed miss. That very much untrue.

Many coaches will have different theories and some internet gurus will insist their way is the only way, but I think there's actually many effective ways to shoot very well. Just again, in my case, teaching a player to shoot is much easier and effective when simplifying the process as opposed to encouraging twists, turns, and shooting on the way down.

For me it's more than just some internet guru, I spent this summer changing my shot trying it out on myself because I too was taught to shoot with my feet square, I also changed my release and it worked out very well. I've also spent quite a bit of time watching video of shooters.
I don't miss much to the sides now, still have a little trouble with my lengt when I get tired but I think that's mostly due to not playing a whole lot.

I tried it out on myself so I can teach my players the same things, last year I was pretty much teaching the square feet and shoulders and to my disapointment very few of my players became better shooters, so I went looking for something new. I'm very excited in what kind of results we'll get with it and I know I preach it a lot but from my experience if you want to change something you have to go all the way, some of my players are still reluctant to change what they've been previously taught even though they don't really shoot well.

[Airball Ahead]

I have been to many clinics and camps but none of those really helped my shooting, it has just basically 'blossomed' with time. When hitting puberty and gaining strength to shoot from the 3pt line, it just somehow clicked; by focusing on the correct spin of the ball I learned a good release, by focusing to shoot from a far distance with the same pure form I learned to get the strength to the shot from my legs, and the correct ball position (slightly over the forehead) just came with these two as it was easier to aim from under the ball.

[Rake2204]

For me it's more than just some internet guru, I spent this summer changing my shot trying it out on myself because I too was taught to shoot with my feet square, I also changed my release and it worked out very well. I've also spent quite a bit of time watching video of shooters.
I don't miss much to the sides now, still have a little trouble with my lengt when I get tired but I think that's mostly due to not playing a whole lot.

I tried it out on myself so I can teach my players the same things, last year I was pretty much teaching the square feet and shoulders and to my disapointment very few of my players became better shooters, so I went looking for something new. I'm very excited in what kind of results we'll get with it and I know I preach it a lot but from my experience if you want to change something you have to go all the way, some of my players are still reluctant to change what they've been previously taught even though they don't really shoot well.And I think that's kind of the conclusion I was trying to come to: different shooting strokes for different folks. I don't think there's going to be one single (and only) way to teach an effective jump shot. It just happens, for me, my shooting form (involving squaring up) has been very effective over time and the strategies I've taught have also made a significant positive difference in the jump shots of many of my players over time.

Also, for the sake of input, I think that video link you provided of proshotcoach stating that when squared up, the shooting elbow would be slightly askew, is not entirely accurate. Usually, when squaring up, the right foot will be slightly in front of the left, which will often nullify the supposed "off-mark" elbow idea. In the man's example in the video, both feet are even, which can lead to that variance in natural aim. When that right foot leads (again just slightly) this is where we'll often see it involuntarily bending a little bit, though it occurs well after one has already squared to the hoop so the shot itself is not negatively affected.

[Heilige]

For those experienced in playing basketball, who would you say made the best points in this thread? I am very new to basketball and want to get into it; playing it and becoming a good player.

[7_cody]

After reading G-Train's couple of posts on the last page, he convinced me to take a closer look at what you're saying and I'm not sure I'm in agreement with everything you mention. If nothing else, a few things may be unclear.

For starters, I initially thought you were saying I was not deriving very much energy from my legs on my shot, to which I would have agreed. However, upon re-reading, you say:
It now feels as if you're saying a jump shot should not use one's legs or jump to assist in the power of a shot. To that, I'd disagree.

In fact, again, that's something very important I teach my players each year (that shot power will primarily come from the legs when one's range extends, not the arms). In my experience, it is the players who are stuck on shooting with all arms who most frequently experience great struggles in achieving an effective jump shot. Using legs obviously doesn't always cure every jumpshot, but it surely goes a long way in eliminating the "heave" theatrics I tend to see when players first enter my program.

I also may disagree with the point at which a player should release a shot. You said:
I've personally never instructed a player to release the ball as they're coming down from their jump. The idea seems to go against all logic and physics in terms of shooting an effective and easy jumpshot. Perhaps you are saying the player will more or less fall to the ground after the shot is in the air?

To reiterate, I do not agree with these lines of shooting strategy. It is once again of my opinion that the "jump" part of a jumpshot is not just to elude an attacking defense. Rather, it can also very much help in providing the power behind one's shot.

I think I'm beginning to understand where you're coming from as I read through more of your post. You insist Ray Allen is the only player anyone should ever look to for emulating a jumpshot, more or less anointing him the Messiah of jumpshooting, and for good reason - he's an incredible shooter. However, there's been a lot of incredible shooters who came before Ray Allen and there'll be just as many who come after, and they will not follow the same patterns as Ray Allen. Therefore, I must largely disagree that players should only follow Allen's stroke. It's awesome and it works for him, but it's not the word of god and I do not envision it being effective for each of my players, most of whom will not grow up to be 6'5'' NBA prospects with 35'' verticals.

For instance, I'm not sure I could, in good faith, ever teach my players to shoot their free throws while using absolutely no legs (not even a little) as Allen has made a career of doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3d_pOYFRVc. I believe there are many "correct" ways of teaching a person to shoot, so to suggest Ray Allen's form is the only way is way off the mark to me.

On the flip side, I've realized Steve Nash shoots free throws exactly how I do and that's essentially the form I teach my players (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf0lAO21AZk), not so much because it's my form, but because I view it to be traditionally very effective. And contrary to what you maintain, I feel it is quite clear that Steve Nash uses his legs within the flow of his shot, both to power said shot and to create a natural one-process flow. In this next clip, it can once again be illustrated how a jump shot can be extremely standard and effective when a player utilizes their entire body in concert and releases the ball before they begin their downward descent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_BN4XdR4Q. I feel this is a much more effective way of teaching young players to shoot than the slight freeze out at the top of the jump strategy that Allen has employed over the years (in combination with his stiff free throws). Again, it's obviously worked for Allen though, so there's no disputing that.

Lastly, I also disagree with:I believe everyone can and should alter their form if they feel it can lead to better overall success. For instance, I have a brother entering 9th grade who more or less pointed his feet 90 degrees away from the basket when he shot (a common problem). As a result, his body would always have to torque to correct the lack of a proper square up and even the simplest open jump shot turned into meticulous calculations on his part (did I compensate well enough for my crooked feet? Is my elbow angled correctly?)

To allow my boy to go through life with such a jumper would be an absolute travesty. Surely, he's comfortable with shooting like that, and he's experienced some success with it, but it won't last in the long run. As such, we've put in a serious amount of work re-tooling his jumper to at least get his elbow in and feet properly squared. And it was a struggle at first, because the proper squaring of his feet was so foreign, but it was a proverbial one-step-back, two-steps-forward situation. His new jumper is much, much more reliable and allows for quicker and more accurate shots. His situation and outcome is one of millions.

In summation, I respect most of your shot coaching techniques, but I do not find them to be as definitive as you insinuated them to be. In fact, I found many tips of yours to be in direct contrast to much of the basketball teachings I've been fortunate enough to garner throughout my life.

What Pauk was explaining was a jump shot. Unless you're a pro, there is no reason to elevate for a jump shot with that much space. You had the corner to yourself with all the space in the world and went with a push shot. You should always go for the higher percentage shot. If you don't have space, and need to shoot, use a jump shot since your release point will be higher and harder to block. The only different between the two is on the jump shot you elevate and time the release at the top of you jump, or delay the follow through part of the shot a few seconds longer then usual. The rest of the techniques should be the same for any set shot, jump shot, or free throw shot. Also, you never release the ball on your way down, you want to release on your way up but as close to the peak of your jump as possible. If you're moving the ball up, why would you wait for the ball to go the opposite direction (back down) in order to release the ball towards the hoop and away from the ball. Kind of hard to explain, but you want to keep the direction of the ball up high and towards the basket at all times, you should not bring the ball behind your head, for example, because your expanding energy in the wrong direction.

Anyway, your form is pretty good. You have a great follow through, and keep the ball in your shooting chamber. You also seem to be holding the ball correctly. The only thing I would change is to hold the ball higher for a higher release point. Also, you could always practice shooting quick. In the video you didn't shoot that fast, but maybe it's because you were so wide open that you figured you'd just square up and make sure you knock it down.

[7_cody]

very much agree with this. while allen is obviously an all-time great shooter, my HS coach (who was a shooting coach for a D1 team at one point) insisted that he preferred steph curry's shot over allen's. this was when curry was coming out of college, mind you. he said allen had a slight 'swing' across his body as he brought the ball up. again, this is not to say that allen isn't a great example...more a minor criticism and another voice that says you should not just use one player to learn from.

i definitely shot more like nash than i did like allen, simply because i didn't have the vertical. i think allen is able to set his arm motion up because he has time to square up due to his vertical. my motion was fluid and i feel like i released at the apex of my jump, but i certainly didn't focus on jumping really high and perfectly timing my release. like i said, i just didn't have the vertical for that. i would have to really focus on my jumping and i felt that took away form my actual shooting form. i'm sure if you took still frames of my shot back then, it would be far from textbook but i think i had the basic fundamentals and consistency down.

again, nothing against allen. he's damn near textbook and it works for him because of his physical tools i mean, even now, his calves are like balloons! the most dangerous part of allen's shooting to me is his quick release. even when he does jump high, he gathers and leaps so quickly that the defense better be ready to close out quick or you're done.

i think you obviously want to hone the fundamental techniques, but it's also important to tweak it a bit for the individual player imo. consistency and confidence is key. the more your shot looks the same every time you go up, the more consistency you'll find.

as far as how i learned...i'll keep it short. 4th grade youth coach. he told us to line up with the lacing, keep a small distance between your shooting palm and the ball. i don't really know how to discuss placement without a diagram but i'm sure you know what i mean. remove your off hand mid way through your shooting motion, just before you flick your wrist and follow through. that's the basics anyway.

i ended up being a good set shooter. by myself, i could shoot near 90% on good days. i used to hoist up 200 or more FT's per day, to the point i sprained my patellar tendon. i eventually won a second place tourney in my county for FT shooting in 6th grade. pretty sure i shot around 84% in that tourney (21/25). i went into sudden death with the other guy after 20 shots since we were tied at 17 or 18 or something. i kinda choked and hit 3/5 while he hit 4/5. one shot made the difference between this giant ass three foot, double tower trophy and this three inch trophy i got. i was seriously like wtf man, lol. my trophy looked like a consolation 5th prize compared to that thing. this was hosted by boys & girls club and i have no idea if they still run it.

anyway, this was all enjoyable to read. kudos to you and some of the other guys for discussing some of the finer details and methodology. yes, that includes you, pauk. :oldlol: good to know you have some nice knowledge behind this and you aren't always a total blowhard. i can't really go back and quote all posts because i stumbled across this way too late.

also, maybe you could explain this...but what do you think happened to guys like marion? did he just skate by on talent and play on AAU teams where nobody coached him up? i mean, his shooting form worked for him but i can only imagine how much better of a shooter he would have been if he had a good shooting coach at least in the latter stages of HS to drill him.

Ray is one of the greatest of all times, but funny enough there are several problems with his technique. I don't think anyone has perfect technique. Not even Kobe does. One thing you forgot about Ray is that he does not lock his elbow in when shooting. He also has the cross, like you said, where he starts outside of his shooting chamber, them moves it into the chamber as he elevates.

[Hornetsfan86]

Doc Rivers.

[7_cody]

For those experienced in playing basketball, who would you say made the best points in this thread? I am very new to basketball and want to get into it; playing it and becoming a good player.

Rake and Pauk did. Also Pauk focused on a jump shot, which is not something you should start with. Rake nailed it when he talked about foot width. Wide foot width means better balance but less power. You want a perfect balance of the two, which is foot width. That's why players have wider foot widths when going for a floater. Think about it, do they need balance or power? They're very close to the basket -- balance it is. My foot width is very width when I hop step into the lane for a floater for great balance. In fact, balance is probably the single most important part of shooting. Even if you're off balance, you will probably be squared up (rather than leaning to the side). If you watch pros shoot, even when off balanced, they have their upper body as straight up as possible with their chest facing the rim (squared up). The second most important part is legs. People want to know how I can shoot so far away? Legs. Practice shooting free-throws a few feet behind the three point line with good technique. That'll teach you to use legs. Also, the best way to practice shooting is by shooting one handed. Make sure you aren't holding the ball with your finger tips.

[Rake2204]

I stumbled upon this picture while discussing shooting with Zen in a Streetball thread. I think this is a good representation of what my shooting coaches have attempted to instill over the course of my life in terms of shot preparation. It's sometimes hard to find pictures of shooters still in the early part of their shooting process (i.e. not in the air). I know it's contrary to some other shot preps mentioned in this thread but I just thought I'd share a little more of how I was taught:

http://www.itsalreadysigned4u.com/shop/media/images/product_detail/skerr8x10-2.jpg

[ralph_i_el]

I shoot by lifting the ball pretty high straight up, making sure my elbow is pointed towards the hoop, and then shoot mostly with my wrist. I don't jump very high when I shoot. I'm pretty good inside 15 feet but after that it's pretty brutal.

[selrahc]

kobe bryant has perfect form, i learned from him.

[inclinerator]

nobody, my shot looked like crap and nobody commented on it until i recorded it one day. Then i changed my form completely and now it looks like a normal jumpshot

[La Frescobaldi]

kobe bryant has perfect form, i learned from him.

KB always did have a beautiful shot.
Actually his dad had a pretty release, when you get down to it, although he was maybe more of a catch spin and dunk artist or at least that's how I remember him best

[9512]

I first shot a basketball at age 12-13. No coach or knowledgeable adult me.I taught myself.

I watched what NBA guys did and also what regular adults did (lots tended to shoot like Bird; hoisting the ball from the back and right side of the head).

Of course I wasn't strong enough initially so I shot like Shawn Marion/Joakim Noah and did that all through HS.

Then in my early to mid 20s I started to get stronger (late bloomer), I shot like Austin Rivers. It's a half Noah and half pseudo Ray Allen. I would jump, hang in the air, and shoot. But it was wrong bc I lost the benefit of leg power since I hung in the air too long. So I shot with a lot of upper body strength with a catapult action (relatively flat)

Now in 2013 I shoot more like an old man with some lift in my jump but now I have somewhat figured out how to release the ball at the peak of the jump. My elbow is nicely pointing toward the basket (even though the elbow is still sticking to the side). I push off the legs, then lift up my shooting arm, then finally flick my calves and follow through at the same time. I now make it a habit to hold my follow thru for a split second longer.

[d.bball.guy]

I just kept on shooting. I'm pretty nice at shooting 3s and I'm cash with that Nash one foot runner.

My normal jumper is an ugly version of Kobe's though :lol Whenever I try to copy his form, I usually air ball the shot so I made adjustments.

[fsvr54]

Coach? I never played organized team sports.

I just went to the court and started bricking shots until I got comfortable. I'm still very streaky, but I can get hot. I haven't playedin three weeks so I'll be rusty as ****.

I tend to shot turnaround and fade to the side jumpers far better that straight up or spot up. I need to be in some rhythm.

[kshutts1]

I don't remember who told me this, but I was told to keep my eye on the rim. I usually do that still, but not always.

In seventh grade I had about 35' range (around 30-35% from there) shooting from my shoulder. I was weak and that form added a lot more power, and thus distance, to the shot.

My gym teacher challenged me to a shooting contest... if he won, I had to shoot his way for an entire year. If I won, I didn't have to do any of the running in gym if I didn't want to.

I lost, and have not stopped shooting "his way" since. Basically Ray Allen(?) style. Elbow at a ninety degree angle, high release, hand above, and slightly to the right (I'm right handed) of my head.

Took a long time, but I eventually got most of my range back, hitting a couple 30' shots in High School ball, and in the Senior All Star game I had the crowd chant for me to take a half-court shot to end the game (airballed it :facepalm ).

But other than that, it's been a pretty successful motion. I have that gym teacher to thank for my relatively sweet shooting stroke, and my JV coach for my handle... it's not great, but instead of putting me in the obvious position of "catch-and-shoot guy" he forced me to learn how to handle a ball and be a guard. I didn't get any PT unless I was PG, so I worked and worked and worked at it, slowly getting better, but never good enough in his eyes to play. But that was his last season coaching for my school, and he went to a rival school. My senior year I gave it to his team.. something like 18p and 9b, lol. Total domination.

[East_Stone_Ya]

by watching a lot of this guy

http://www.nba.com/media/act_karl_malone.jpg