Non Kobe fan on Kobe all time rank

[thelucifer69]

Should he be higher?

[Dwade305]

I know this is ISh but english mf do you speak it?

[StateOfMind12]

8-12 is where he can acceptable be ranked. Anyone who rates him higher sucks Kobe's dick too much and anyone who rates him lower is someone who has a serious agenda against him.

[Harison]

8-12 is where he can acceptable be ranked. Anyone who rates him higher sucks Kobe's dick too much and anyone who rates him lower is someone who has a serious agenda against him.

Correct, I have him precisely at 10. Kobe simply wasnt as dominant as Shaq/Timmy/Dream to pass any of them, despite of better accolades.

ISH ranks him and Magic highly pretty much because of a huge LA fanbase.

[TheMarkMadsen]

8-12 is where he can acceptable be ranked. Anyone who rates him higher sucks Kobe's dick too much and anyone who rates him lower is someone who has a serious agenda against him.

Kobe is a lock for top 10, anything lower than 10 & people are just being biased.

[NLZ]

Correct, I have him precisely at 10. Kobe simply wasnt as dominant as Shaq/Timmy/Dream to pass any of them, despite of better accolades.

ISH ranks him and Magic highly pretty much because of a huge LA fanbase.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeXZY4eVLlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1McrAD5JGc

Kobe Bryant IMO dominated as much or more than those 3 during his absolute peak... at least definitely Tim Duncan & Dream. Are we also forgetting Shaq wasn't a good defensive player, and never made a All-Defense team? Also why don't people use "IMO" more often and instead state everything they believe in as a fact?

[AlphaWolf24]

Top #5 - #7 is acceptable....anything below 7 and the person should be laughed at..

[pauk]

1. jordan
2. kareem
3. russell
4. wilt
5. magic
6. bird
7. shaq
8. duncan
9-10. kobe/hakeem

[KG215]

Top #5 - #7 is acceptable....anything below 7 and the person should be laughed at..

And this is the typical Kobe stan response to this type of question.

[kennethgriffin]

pretty much every coach/player/gm/owner/retired person from the nba ranks kobe as one of the top 5 players ever or just outside of it

his resume is right there too.

only on internet message boards do we see him get ranked as boarderline top 10 because all the kobeholics and all the kobe haters take turns over ranking him ( as the 2nd best ever ) and underrating him ( as top 11-12 )

[Ne 1]

After the Lakers won in '09 I think that cemented Kobe in the top 10 for the majority of people.

I remember even before '09 most reasonable fans already had him ranked in the top 10-12, but after '09 there wasn't even an argument to place him outside of the top 10.

Kareem, Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Hakeem and Duncan are the only players that can be ranked in front of him. No one else has a case.

Take into consideration the following things:
- Peak play
- Overall career stats
- Awards/Records/Accomplishments
- Championships
etc. etc.

Are there really more than 9 players that can be ranked in front of him?

[kennethgriffin]

realistically the only guys who can even be argued to have had a better overall career are jordan/russell/kareem

kobes career is right on par with wilt/magic/birds

anyone who ranks him well below this are just those types of people who throw out everything he ever did and say "its all about your best prime 1 or 2 seasons"

seriously? gtfo with that shi***... no ones judged on 2 years. people are judged on their ENTIRE LIFE OF BASKETBALL

[AlphaWolf24]

And this is the typical Kobe stan response to this type of question.


so Magic / Barkley/Shaq/jerry West are stans too?

[KG215]

pretty much every coach/player/gm/owner/retired person from the nba ranks kobe as one of the top 5 players ever or just outside of it

his resume is right there too.

only on internet message boards do we see him get ranked as boarderline top 10 because all the kobeholics and all the kobe haters take turns over ranking him ( as the 2nd best ever ) and underrating him ( as top 11-12 )

I'd love to see any proof you have of this.

And this is another typical Kobe stan response, by the way.

[kennethgriffin]

so Magic / Barkley/Shaq/jerry West are stans too?


dude just let the morons think kobe is top 10-11 or some crap


do they even have a public voice? no...

turn on the tv and every time this stuff comes up kobe is top 5 all time... thats the real ranking. what the important basketball people say

- coaches
- players
- gm's
- owners
- HOF'rs

these guys must really p*ss off kobe haters whenever their opinions come up on all time rankings :lol

[KG215]

so Magic / Barkley/Shaq/jerry West are stans too?

Oh, so those four guys ave him top 5-7 all-time? I guess it must be true, then.

[AlphaWolf24]

Oh, so those four guys ave him top 5-7 all-time? I guess it must be true, then.


that's right....most of the world thinks he's #5 - 7# ..even former basketball legends...

what really matters is scrubs on the webz who started watching basketball in the mid 90's:rolleyes:

:roll:

[KG215]

dude just let the morons think kobe is top 10-11 or some crap


do they even have a public voice? no...

turn on the tv and every time this stuff comes up kobe is top 5 all time... thats the real ranking. what the important basketball people say

- coaches
- players
- gm's
- owners
- HOF'rs

these guys must really p*ss off kobe haters whenever their opinions come up on all time rankings :lol

Again, I'd love to see any proof yo have of "most GMs, coaches, former players" saying Kobe is one of the 5 est payers ever.

I have no problem with Kobe being ranked anywhere from 7-10. Top 5, in my opinion, is too high.

[Punpun]

Wise words were spoken. Bravo kenneth.

[KG215]

that's right....most of the world thinks he's #5 - 7# ..even former basketball legends...

what really matters is scrubs on the webz who started watching basketball in the mid 90's:rolleyes:

:roll:
And another typical Kobe stan response. A handful of former players and coaches say Kobe's top five, which means "most of the world" thinks he's 5-7.

And what the hell does me starting watching basketball in the mid-90s have to do with this? Did Kobe's career start before then?

[kennethgriffin]

I'd love to see any proof you have of this.

And this is another typical Kobe stan response, by the way.


george karl - "kobe is one of the top 3 players ever"

pat riley - "hes right there with jordan. jordan will always be the best of the best of the best. but you have to put kobe right there with mike"

phil jackson - "kobe is probably more skilled than michael jordan. but mike had those big hands"

jerry west - "kobe is the greatest laker ever, once in a lifetime player"

charles barkley - "kobe is top 5 all time"

shaquille o'neal - " kobe is the greatest laker of all time"

magic johnson - "greatest laker ever"


and theres these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoqbgOZrEg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGJSiMqpWk&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s



seriously... every time a person in the nba or retired has anything to say about kobe... its almost always something like "legend, one of the best ever, right there with mike"

you have to be blind deaf and dumb to not notice this?

[KOBE143]

Im not Kobe fan

Top 5 at worst..

[dunksby]

I have him at #7:

1- Kareem
2- MJ
3- Russel
4- Magic
5- Wilt
6- Bird
7- Kobe
8- Shaq
9- Duncan
10- Hakeem

[Odinn]

Im not Kobe fan

Top 5 at worst..
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[RRR3]

You can easily cherry pick quotes to make anyone look great. Here, I'll do it with LeBron


Jerry West "LeBron is better than Kobe" (said in 2009 IIRC)

Scottie Pippen "LeBron is the greatest all around player ever"

Larry Bird "Has anyone had a better playoff run than LeBron did in 2012?"

Larry Bird "LeBron can possibly reach MJ"

Oscar Robertson "LeBron is in a class by himself"

Magic Johnson "I would say LeBron's playoff run is top 10 all time" said BEFORE NBA finals in 2012

[RRR3]

Im not Kobe fan

Top 5 at worst..
Location: Kobe's heart










:coleman:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Not a fan, but I have him around 7. I don't understand the arguement of him not being top 10.

[kennethgriffin]

You can easily cherry pick quotes to make anyone look great. Here, I'll do it with LeBron


Jerry West "LeBron is better than Kobe" (said in 2009 IIRC)

Scottie Pippen "LeBron is the greatest all around player ever"

Larry Bird "Has anyone had a better playoff run than LeBron did in 2012?"

Larry Bird "LeBron can possibly reach MJ"

Oscar Robertson "LeBron is in a class by himself"

Magic Johnson "I would say LeBron's playoff run is top 10 all time" said BEFORE NBA finals in 2012


but all those things are probably true

and i'm a kobe fan

lebron did pass kobe... probably in 2010 ( btw jerry west said "i made a mistake saying lebron was better ----after----kobe won the title )

lebron is the greatest all around player ever ( in terms of rebounding/ball handling/ assists/ defending 3-4 positions )... all around just means the best guy who does everything well or great. lebron does. hes not the best at any one area. but hes great at everything i think

lebron did have one of the greatest playoff runs statistically

lebron CAN reach mj... sure... so can kobe and durant and a few others

lebron is probably in a class by himself right now... hes lucky durant is so one dimensional and kobes way past his prime

sure his run was atleast top 10 all time


i don't dispute any of this stuff


only lebron fans throw out everything kobe did or is said about him... you and others like you are insecure p*ssys

:yaohappy:

[RRR3]

but all those things are probably true

and i'm a kobe fan

lebron did pass kobe... probably in 2010 ( btw jerry west said "i made a mistake saying lebron was better ----after----kobe won the title )

lebron is the greatest all around player ever ( in terms of rebounding/ball handling/ assists/ defending 3-4 positions )

lebron did have one of the greatest playoff runs statistically

lebron CAN reach mj... sure... so can kobe and durant and a few others

lebron is probably in a class by himself right now... hes lucky durant is so one dimensional and kobes way past his prime

sure his run was atleast top 10 all time


i don't dispute any of this stuff


only lebron fans throw out everything kobe did or is said about him... you and others like you are insecure p*ssys

:yaohappy:

LOL @ you calling anyone insecure. I could care less about Kobe, it's you mamba apostles I can't stand.

[Punpun]

LOL @ you calling anyone insecure. I could care less about Kobe, it's you mamba apostles I can't stand.

Let me understand you. Someone saying kobe is top 5 to top 10 at worse is a "mamba apostle" ?

[LBJMVP]

kobe will be top 5 when its all said and done.


its funy how almost every analyst/coach/gm has him up their, but internet forums are the people who don't.

magic johnson said kobe was the best laker ever for god's sake.

[RRR3]

Let me understand you. Someone saying kobe is top 5 to top 10 at worse is a "mamba apostle" ?
Yes

[kennethgriffin]

LOL @ you calling anyone insecure. I could care less about Kobe, it's you mamba apostles I can't stand.

its amazing how many people are kobe apostles

jordan said kobe was better than lebron multiple times... kobe apostle?

every time lebrons been asked about kobe. he said he was the best in the league ( obviously not anymore... but up until 2009 was his last quote )

kobe apostle?

popovich said kobe was better than tim duncan.... DURING TIMS PRIME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

kobe apostle?

[Punpun]

Haha. People sure have silly opinions. :yaohappy:

[LBJMVP]

Yes


read my post above yours.... im a cavaliers fan and am no way a "mamba apostle"

kobe will still be a top 5 great when its all said and done.


jordan



jabbar
russell
magic
kobe

[RRR3]

its amazing how many people are kobe apostles

jordan said kobe was better than lebron multiple times... kobe apostle?

every time lebrons been asked about kobe. he said he was the best in the league ( obviously not anymore... but up until 2009 was his last quote )

kobe apostle?

popovich said kobe was better than tim duncan.... DURING TIMS PRIME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

kobe apostle?

WTF none of those people are kobe apostles. Difference between saying something and spending your time on the internet spamming about Kobe Bryant....THAT is a kobe apostle. Michael Jordan thought it was a good idea to draft Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison so meh. Plus Kobe is better than LBJ career wise (for now). Kobe vs Duncan is debatable, that's not an outrageous thing to say. And LeBron would get blasted for being "arrogant" if he said himself.

[kennethgriffin]

Yes


heres an idea


if everyone says one thing.. but a few people who are all coincidentally lebron fans say another thing

who's more likely to be right


they had a song for this on sesame street...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ect-kgxBb4M

[RRR3]

read my post above yours.... im a cavaliers fan and am no way a "mamba apostle"

kobe will still be a top 5 great when its all said and done.


jordan



jabbar
russell
magic
kobe
Kobe over Wilt is disrespectful to basketball history.

[kennethgriffin]

WTF none of those people are kobe apostles. Difference between saying something and spending your time on the internet spamming about Kobe Bryant....THAT is a kobe apostle. Michael Jordan thought it was a good idea to draft Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison so meh. Plus Kobe is better than LBJ career wise (for now). Kobe vs Duncan is debatable, that's not an outrageous thing to say. And LeBron would get blasted for being "arrogant" if he said himself.


but everything we say is repeated by all those other people...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ect-kgxBb4M <-----

:lol

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe over Wilt is disrespectful to basketball history.


because you said so right? how on earth can a guy with more accomplishments in a more respectable era against players who are atleast comparable to him be better or higher ranked

Absurd :lol


:hammerhead:

[RRR3]

heres an idea


if everyone says one thing.. but a few people who are all coincidentally lebron fans say another thing

who's more likely to be right


they had a song for this on sesame street...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ect-kgxBb4M
You're using logical fallacies to argue. Typical Mamba Boy "go-to" move.

1. "b-b-b-b-but da majority thinks Kobe DA Bess'!!!!"-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
2. "b-b-b-b-b-but (insert famous NBA player/coach) said Kobe da Bess'!!!"-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority

[RRR3]

because you said so right? how on earth can a guy with more accomplishments in a more respectable era against players who are atleast comparable to him be better or higher ranked

Absurd :lol


:hammerhead:
So you're going to penalize Wilt for being far more superior to his competition than Kobe is? Seems legit.

[KG215]

george karl - "kobe is one of the top 3 players ever"
That one I'll give you.


pat riley - "hes right there with jordan. jordan will always be the best of the best of the best. but you have to put kobe right there with mike"
Not sure that means he's top 5, but I can see where you're getting that from.


phil jackson - "kobe is probably more skilled than michael jordan. but mike had those big hands"
This tells me absolutely nothing. And I just heard the quote in one of the videos you posted. Phil does somewhat reluctantly agree that Kobe is more skilled but he also says Jordan had things Kobe didn't, and nothing he says should convince you that he thinks Kobe is/was the better player. I'm not sure when that was said, either, but I'm guessing it was 5-7 years ago when he was coaching Kobe.


jerry west - "kobe is the greatest laker ever, once in a lifetime player"

magic johnson - "greatest laker ever"
These two I take with a grain of salt. I'll give West more leeway since he came before Magic and Kobe and saw both play. However, I'd probably expect Kobe to say Magic, Kareem, or West is the greatest Laker ever. West and Magic both know if they say something as conceited as "I'm the best Laker ever" it wouldn't go over too well with the media, fans, former teammates, etc.

I don't just do this with Kobe, I'd do it for anyone where a former teammate or player of the same franchise says something like this.


charles barkley - "kobe is top 5 all time"
Fine.


shaquille o'neal - " kobe is the greatest laker of all time"
This one sort of falls into the Magic and West category but I do take it a little more seriously.




and theres these videos


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoqbgOZrEg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGJSiMqpWk&feature=relmfu

These three videos tell me absolutely nothing. It's current players (or players at the time 5-7 years ago) saying Kobe was the best player in the NBA at the time, which he was.

The only person in either video that comes out and gives a definitive answer on his all-time ranking (Carlos Boozer) says he's a top 10 player, which he is. I have no problems with anything any player in those videos said, but don't hang on to them as justification that Kobe is top 5 all-time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s
All Phil does in that video is say he agrees with Mychal Thompson that Kobe is more skilled than Jordan. He also goes on to say what Jordan did or had that was better than Kobe. He doesn't say one is better than the other, and he doesn't say they're the two best players of all-time.


And again, I don't have a problem with the things these people are saying. I have a problem with you and other Kobe stans latching onto them and using it as justification for ranking Kobe top 5 all-time.

[kennethgriffin]

people who share my opinion on kobe bryant

- michael jordan
- larry bird
- magic johnson
- jerry west
- phil jackson
- george karl
- greg poppavich
- pat riley
- alvin gentry
- shaquille o'neal
- tracy mcgrady
- lebron james
- stephon marbury
- amare stoudemire
- lamar odom
- gilbert arenas
- michael pietris
- chris kaman
- monta ellis
- doc rivers
- kiki vanderweghe
- andre iguidala
- al jefferson
- dwight howard
- chauncy billups
- ron artest
- jason terry
- dirk nowitzky
- jerry sloan


and thats just off the top of my head




people who have the same opinion on kobe as the idiots on message boards


other message board idiots

:lol

[Punpun]

You're using logical fallacies to argue. Typical Mamba Boy "go-to" move.

2. "b-b-b-b-b-but (insert famous NBA player/coach) said Kobe da Bess'!!!"-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority

Appeal to authority doesn't work that way. It is used when a doctor by example intercedes on something outside his area of expertise and use his title of doctor to put power into his words.

A nba coach saying something about a nba player is not an appeal to authority.

[KG215]

people who share my opinion on kobe bryant

- michael jordan
- larry bird
- magic johnson
- jerry west
- phil jackson
- george karl
- greg poppavich
- pat riley
- alvin gentry
- shaquille o'neal
- tracy mcgrady
- lebron james
- stephon marbury
- amare stoudemire
- lamar odom
- gilbert arenas
- michael pietris
- chris kaman
- monta ellis
- doc rivers
- kiki vanderweghe
- andre iguidala
- al jefferson
- dwight howard
- chauncy billups
- ron artest
- jason terry
- dirk nowitzky
- jerry sloan


and thats just off the top of my head




people who have the same opinion on kobe as the idiots on message boards


other message board idiots

:lol

Now give me proof of every single one of those guys saying Kobe's top 5 all-time. If you're basing it on one of those videos you posted then shame on you. All those guys are doing is talking about how Kobe was the best player in the NBA at the time, which he was.

And if you can't, I'll call BS because you've proven before you take things someone says, twist it and manipulate it to fit your agenda, and try to get others to believe former player X or former coach Y said Kobe is one of the 3-5 best players ever. And saying "He's on Jordan's level" doesn't count. That can mean a number of things.

[LBJMVP]

Kobe over Wilt is disrespectful to basketball history.

that is your opinion...

[kennethgriffin]

That one I'll give you.


Not sure that means he's top 5, but I can see where you're getting that from.


This tells me absolutely nothing. And I just heard the quote in one of the videos you posted. Phil does somewhat reluctantly agree that Kobe is more skilled but he also says Jordan had things Kobe didn't, and nothing he says should convince you that he thinks Kobe is/was the better player. I'm not sure when that was said, either, but I'm guessing it was 5-7 years ago when he was coaching Kobe.



These two I take with a grain of salt. I'll give West more leeway since he came before Magic and Kobe and saw both play. However, I'd probably expect Kobe to say Magic, Kareem, or West is the greatest Laker ever. West and Magic both know if they say something as conceited as "I'm the best Laker ever" it wouldn't go over too well with the media, fans, former teammates, etc.

I don't just do this with Kobe, I'd do it for anyone where a former teammate or player of the same franchise says something like this.


Fine.


This one sort of falls into the Magic and West category but I do take it a little more seriously.




and theres these videos


These three videos tell me absolutely nothing. It's current players (or players at the time 5-7 years ago) saying Kobe was the best player in the NBA at the time, which he was.

The only person in either video that comes out and gives a definitive answer on his all-time ranking (Carlos Boozer) says he's a top 10 player, which he is. I have no problems with anything any player in those videos said, but don't hang on to them as justification that Kobe is top 5 all-time.


All Phil does in that video is say he agrees with Mychal Thompson that Kobe is more skilled than Jordan. He also goes on to say what Jordan did or had that was better than Kobe. He doesn't say one is better than the other, and he doesn't say they're the two best players of all-time.


And again, I don't have a problem with the things these people are saying. I have a problem with you and other Kobe stans latching onto them and using it as justification for ranking Kobe top 5 all-time.


lol@ not being sure that right beside jordan means top 5 all time

lol@ not being sure phil saying kobes more skilled than the all time goat is better than being top 5 all time

lol@ not understanding that greatest laker ever ( when magic is top 5 ever himself ) doesnt also = top 5 all time... yea 3 people say kobes the greatest laker ever. yet hes ranked below top 5 player all time LA LAker magic johnson... get a clue

loL@ taking 40-50 big name people and watching their jerk circle to kobe while taking it "like a grain of salt... " you're salty alright



seriously man you're just arguing like a dumb robot. you're like an iphone app where you say something to it. but it doesnt understand unless it programmed to read an exact quote


like when someone says "iphone.... kobe is the best player of this era "


your dumba** operating system will respond with "ERROR.... does not computer as "top 5 player ever"

you're just arguing like a dumb troll



OFCOURSE NOT EVERYONE SAYS


MICHAEL JORDAN - "kobe bean bryant is a top 5 all time player in response to kg215"

LARRY BIRD - ""kobe bean bryant is a top 5 all time player in response to kg215"


Magic Johnson - ""kobe bean bryant is a top 5 all time player in response to kg215"


people arnt as robotic out there... they say stuff the way people actually talk

like "once in a lifetime player" "only other player that compares to me" - which jordan was actually quoted saying



ya... only other player that compares to me... sure that doesnt exactly quote as "top 5 ever"

but anyone with a brain will take it as "i'm the best ever. hes the only one comparable... meaning i think hes 2nd best ever"


get it? no ofcourse not

[alleykat]

i would put him #8....below shaq but above tim duncan..

[Raz]

1. jordan
2. kareem
3. russell
4. wilt
5. magic
6. bird
7. shaq
8. duncan
9-10. kobe/hakeem

1. Abdul-Jabbar
2. Jordan
3. Russell
4. Chamberlain
5. Bird
6. Magic
7. Duncan
8. O'Neal
9. Bryant
10. Olajuwon

[kennethgriffin]

Now give me proof of every single one of those guys saying Kobe's top 5 all-time. If you're basing it on one of those videos you posted then shame on you. All those guys are doing is talking about how Kobe was the best player in the NBA at the time, which he was.

And if you can't, I'll call BS because you've proven before you take things someone says, twist it and manipulate it to fit your agenda, and try to get others to believe former player X or former coach Y said Kobe is one of the 3-5 best players ever. And saying "He's on Jordan's level" doesn't count. That can mean a number of things.


robot trolling like a f*ckin idiot

someone ban this clown


this is my impression of kg215

"give me EXACT QUOTES !!!! ARRRRGGG!!! they cant say "one of the best ever, once in a lifetime, right there with mike, only comparable to mike, most skilled ever! only guy who can do this or that!... none of that counts! give me an exact quote! if not then its impossible to know what they meant!!!! ARRRRG!!! phil jackson doesnt think jordan is top 5 ever! know why! cause he never said he thinks jordan is top 5 ever! he said jordan is the best ever! but he never said jordan was top 5 ever! damnit! get me quotes that fit my definition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[KG215]

robot trolling like a f*ckin idiot

someone ban this clown


this is my impression of kg215

"give me EXACT QUOTES !!!! ARRRRGGG!!! they cant say "one of the best ever, once in a lifetime, right there with mike, only comparable to mike, most skilled ever! only guy who can do this or that!... none of that counts! give me an exact quote! if not then its impossible to know what they meant!!!! ARRRRG!!! phil jackson doesnt think jordan is top 5 ever! know why! cause he never said he thinks jordan is top 5 ever! he said jordan is the best ever! but he never said jordan was top 5 ever! damnit! get me quotes that fit my definition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I wouldn't be asking for exact or direct quotes with anyone else. I do it with you because you're a moron. You rarely (if ever) provide the actual full quote or context of the quote, and I'm calling you on some of your BS. That's all. You can't just list a long name of people and say "they all agree with me" so matter-of-factly, and expect not to get called out for it.

If you want to rank Kobe in your top 5 all-time, that's fine. But quit acting like it's a travesty anytime someone else says he's in the 7-10 range. You've done nothing but prove you only care about Kobe Bryant and no one else. You aren't a Lakers fan in my opinion because real Lakers fans don't downplay Shaq's significance during the 3-peat or Pau's significance or role during the back-to-back titles.

[AlphaWolf24]

people who share my opinion on kobe bryant

- michael jordan
- larry bird
- magic johnson
- jerry west
- phil jackson
- george karl
- greg poppavich
- pat riley
- alvin gentry
- shaquille o'neal
- tracy mcgrady
- lebron james
- stephon marbury
- amare stoudemire
- lamar odom
- gilbert arenas
- michael pietris
- chris kaman
- monta ellis
- doc rivers
- kiki vanderweghe
- andre iguidala
- al jefferson
- dwight howard
- chauncy billups
- ron artest
- jason terry
- dirk nowitzky
- jerry sloan


and thats just off the top of my head




people who have the same opinion on kobe as the idiots on message boards


other message board idiots

:lol


But his TS% is only 52%...Jordan's was 54%Ts...that's a whole 2%...he's so inefficient:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

FG%TS%FG%TS%FG%TS%FG%TS%

[AlphaWolf24]

That one I'll give you.


Not sure that means he's top 5, but I can see where you're getting that from.


This tells me absolutely nothing. And I just heard the quote in one of the videos you posted. Phil does somewhat reluctantly agree that Kobe is more skilled but he also says Jordan had things Kobe didn't, and nothing he says should convince you that he thinks Kobe is/was the better player. I'm not sure when that was said, either, but I'm guessing it was 5-7 years ago when he was coaching Kobe.



These two I take with a grain of salt. I'll give West more leeway since he came before Magic and Kobe and saw both play. However, I'd probably expect Kobe to say Magic, Kareem, or West is the greatest Laker ever. West and Magic both know if they say something as conceited as "I'm the best Laker ever" it wouldn't go over too well with the media, fans, former teammates, etc.

I don't just do this with Kobe, I'd do it for anyone where a former teammate or player of the same franchise says something like this.


Fine.


This one sort of falls into the Magic and West category but I do take it a little more seriously.




and theres these videos


These three videos tell me absolutely nothing. It's current players (or players at the time 5-7 years ago) saying Kobe was the best player in the NBA at the time, which he was.

The only person in either video that comes out and gives a definitive answer on his all-time ranking (Carlos Boozer) says he's a top 10 player, which he is. I have no problems with anything any player in those videos said, but don't hang on to them as justification that Kobe is top 5 all-time.


All Phil does in that video is say he agrees with Mychal Thompson that Kobe is more skilled than Jordan. He also goes on to say what Jordan did or had that was better than Kobe. He doesn't say one is better than the other, and he doesn't say they're the two best players of all-time.


And again, I don't have a problem with the things these people are saying. I have a problem with you and other Kobe stans latching onto them and using it as justification for ranking Kobe top 5 all-time.


:roll:

so when anyone says Kobe is a top 5 alltime player you just take it with a grain of salt.....

you would much rather discount basketball legends because all of your basketball wisdom of 15 years(watching youtube highlights):roll: ...tell's you they are just lying...

GTFO Jordan stan>>>>>>>>>>>

[KG215]

:roll:

so when anyone says Kobe is a top 5 alltime player you just take it with a grain of salt.....

you would much rather discount basketball legends because all of your basketball wisdom of 15 years(watching youtube highlights):roll: ...tell's you they are just lying...

GTFO Jordan stan>>>>>>>>>>>

That's not what I said at all. I said I take former coaches and former teammates saying things like "he's the best player in the world" or "he's the best player of all-time" with a grain of salt.

And show me where, in those quotes and videos, does anyone call Kobe a top 5 player all-time other than George Karl and Charles Barkley.

And how am I a Jordan stan? I don't make outlandish and ignorant claims to defend him like you do for Kobe. Were't you saying, just a few days ago, that the centers of the 2000s (the ones Kobe faced) were better than the centers of the 90s? Why is it that the only people on ISH who consistently say Kobe should be considered no worse than 5-7 all-time are posters like you, kennethgriffin, Iron Fist, LakersReign, etc.? Posters who have proven time and time again they'll do anything to blindly defend Kobe, regardless how stupid and ignorant the argument?

[AlphaWolf24]

That's not what I said at all. I said I take former coaches and former teammates saying things like "he's the best player in the world" or "he's the best player of all-time" with a grain of salt.

And show me where, in those quotes and videos, does anyone call Kobe a top 5 player all-time other than George Karl and Charles Barkley.

And how am I a Jordan stan? I don't make outlandish and ignorant claims to defend him like you do for Kobe. Were't you saying, just a few days ago, that the centers of the 2000s (the ones Kobe faced) were better than the centers of the 90s?


- So if a player said Kobe is the greatest Laker of alltime....better then Magic, Shaq and West and Kareem....that alone puts him in the top 5.

but you already said you think tey are just trying to make a conspiracy so you take everything wit a greain of salt:rolleyes:

- I said 2000's ...Tim duncan , Shaq , Kevin Garnett , Yao Ming, Howard

were better 5 Big men then....

90's - Ewing , Robinson , Hakeem ,Daugherty, Mourning


Shaq> Ewing....Duncan>Hakeem.....KG> DRob....Ming>Daugherty...Howard>Mourning

deal wit it

[TheMan]

I have him 10-12 area.

[AlphaWolf24]

I have him 10-12 area.


never would have guessed:rolleyes:

[andgar923]

He'll never be number 1 that's for sure.

[Heavincent]

He's between 5 and 10. I'd probably put him at 7.

[lilgodfather1]

I got Kobe at 8/9 it's between he and Duncan for 8th, but I give it to Duncan at this point in time. Kobe getting into the top 4 in career scoring puts him above Duncan though imo, so only a few more seasons to get there.

[TheMan]

never would have guessed:rolleyes:
What? You take it as an insult to Kobe to be top 10-12 All Time? He's still playing, I'm open to put him a few spots higher when it's all said and done. Don't get butt hurt, being in that elite group is an honor and it's not a dis at all to Kobe:facepalm

Kobe Bryant, greatest of all time, happy now?:mad:

[AlphaWolf24]

What? You take it as an insult to Kobe to be top 10-12 All Time? He's still playing, I'm open to put him a few spots higher when it's all said and done. Don't get butt hurt, being in that elite group is an honor and it's not a dis at all to Kobe:facepalm

Kobe Bryant, greatest of all time, happy now?:mad:


RU Cray???

MJ shot 2% higher TS and has 4 more FMVP's..go away Kobetard.



(phew...that actully felt good)

[KG215]

-

- I said 2000's ...Tim duncan , Shaq , Kevin Garnett , Yao Ming, Howard

were better 5 Big men then....

90's - Ewing , Robinson , Hakeem ,Daugherty, Mourning


Shaq> Ewing....Duncan>Hakeem.....KG> DRob....Ming>Daugherty...Howard>Mourning

deal wit it

Shaq was in his prime in the 90s, too, and at his peak when he played with Kobe. Not sure how that's valid. Duncan>Hakeem is highly debatable, so no. KG>DRob is also very debatable. Ming>Daugherty...Dauhgerty was a 20-10-4-1 player on 51% shooting and had 7 good or really good seasons in the league. Yao was a 20-10-2-2 player on 53% shooting and had 6 good or really good seasons. That's a wash, at worst. I'll take Howard over Mourning, although Howard has just started to peak and is now playing with Kobe.

And you're cherry-picking the ones you want to make your argument stronger.

It's statements like that, when you say it so matter-of-factly like it's not even up for debate, why no one takes you seriously as a poster. Jordan's prime/peak coincided with Ewing, Robinson,

[CavaliersFTW]

dude just let the morons think kobe is top 10-11 or some crap


do they even have a public voice? no...

turn on the tv and every time this stuff comes up kobe is top 5 all time... thats the real ranking. what the important basketball people say

- coaches
- players
- gm's
- owners
- HOF'rs

these guys must really p*ss off kobe haters whenever their opinions come up on all time rankings :lol
prisoners of the moment

[AlphaWolf24]

Shaq was in his prime in the 90s, too, and at his peak when he played with Kobe. Not sure how that's valid. Duncan>Hakeem is highly debatable, so no. KG>DRob is also very debatable. Ming>Daugherty...Dauhgerty was a 20-10-4-1 player on 51% shooting and had 7 good or really good seasons in the league. Yao was a 20-10-2-2 player on 53% shooting and had 6 good or really good seasons. That's a wash, at worst. I'll take Howard over Mourning, although Howard has just started to peak and is now playing with Kobe.

And you're cherry-picking the ones you want to make your argument stronger.

It's statements like that, when you say it so matter-of-factly like it's not even up for debate, why no one takes you seriously as a poster. Jordan's prime/peak coincided with Ewing, Robinson,



- would you rather me write walls of text and use video highlights??..would that earn your respect??

- I usually stay away from walls of text when arguing over petty " centers were better in the _______ vs the _______"

- I usually make somewhat detailed threads when talking about players in a non "comparing" fashion...that way people can enjoy them rather then use thier own bias.>>>http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273262

- as far as bieng taken serious as a poster....I don't give a ****...

I'm gonna talk about what I want to talk about..I'm gonna say what I think...if you don't like it....so what....it's not that serious...mainly just talk hoop/trash and have fun

oh that's right....little green bars means you are a BBALL expert/should be in the NBA...Red bars means you should be in the NBDL....

next time I will post walls of text...and give first hand player accounts..I will even upload all my VHS tapes...so you can take it all with a grain of salt.


internetz = serious biznazz:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[Boston C's]

hes def top 10... I have him ranged at about the 7-10 spots...on my ranking hes like 7th or 8th though

[Orlando Magic]

Chamberlain, russell, bird, johnson, jordan, oneal, duncan, olajuwon, abdul-jabbar... All inarguably better. That pufs kobe at 10 and james will pass him as hes already shown a higher peak and ability to dominate the w l cloumn with scrub teams while kobe got bounced in the first round and MISSED the playoffs with a comparable team to cleveland... 11 all time is nothing to sneeze at. And I dont give two shits with anyone who disagrees.either way.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Chamberlain, russell, bird, johnson, jordan, oneal, duncan, olajuwon, abdul-jabbar... All inarguably better. That pufs kobe at 10 and james will pass him as hes already shown a higher peak and ability to dominate the w l cloumn with scrub teams while kobe got bounced in the first round and MISSED the playoffs with a comparable team to cleveland... 11 all time is nothing to sneeze at. And I dont give two shits with anyone who disagrees.either way.
You can't compare the Western Conference Playoff and Eastern Conference Playoffs :facepalm

Duncan is not inarguably better :facepalm

And Kareem missed the Playoffs twice in his prime.

[TheMan]

RU Cray???

MJ shot 2% higher TS and has 4 more FMVP's..go away Kobetard.



(phew...that actully felt good)
Another thing, I'm not a Jordan stan, you love calling me a stan. MJ is my favorite player because I followed his career from the mid 80s on being a Chicagoan and Bulls fan. I am open to the debate that KAJ or Wilt or even Russell as GOAT because I never saw them play, I only have their reputation, stats and the few videos on YouTube available to judge them. Check all my posts if you want, I HAVE NEVER POSTED A LIST WHERE I DEFINITIVELY CALL JORDAN THE GOAT. I've posted that he is the CONSENSUS GOAT because that is what most lists out there have him as. Only thing I've claimed is that he is the best player I've seen.

This is my list of players that I consider the best I've seen (since mid 80s)

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Shaq
5. Duncan
6. Hakeem
7. Kobe
8. Malone
9. LBJ
10. Garnett
11. Barkley
12. Pippen
13. Stockton
14. Robinson
15. Thomas

No KAJ because he was well out of his prime when I watched him in the mid 80s.

[AlphaWolf24]

Another thing, I'm not a Jordan stan, you love calling me a stan. MJ is my favorite player because I followed his career from the mid 80s on being a Chicagoan and Bulls fan. I am open to the debate that KAJ or Wilt or even Russell as GOAT because I never saw them play, I only have their reputation, stats and the few videos on YouTube available to judge them. Check all my posts if you want, I HAVE NEVER POSTED A LIST WHERE I DEFINITIVELY CALL JORDAN THE GOAT. I've posted that he is the CONSENSUS GOAT because that is what most lists out there have him as. Only thing I've claimed is that he is the best player I've seen.

This is my list of players that I consider the best I've seen (since mid 80s)

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Shaq
5. Duncan
6. Hakeem
7. Kobe
8. Malone
9. LBJ
10. Garnett
11. Barkley
12. Pippen
13. Stockton
14. Robinson
15. Thomas

No KAJ because he was well out of his prime when I watched him in the mid 80s.


nice list...

I always have Kevin Mchale on my top 10 lists from the mid 80's....also Dr.J...I always think those 2 are criminally underrated.

Kevin Mchale was an absolute beast...from the mid to late 80's...very much as an impact player as Pippen was for the Bull's.

Dr.J was simply to great to leave him off...he was an amazing player that inspired Jordan and countless others...

[Nevaeh]

people who share my opinion on kobe bryant

- michael jordan
- larry bird
- magic johnson
- jerry west
- phil jackson
- george karl
- greg poppavich
- pat riley
- alvin gentry
- shaquille o'neal
- tracy mcgrady
- lebron james
- stephon marbury
- amare stoudemire
- lamar odom
- gilbert arenas
- michael pietris
- chris kaman
- monta ellis
- doc rivers
- kiki vanderweghe
- andre iguidala
- al jefferson
- dwight howard
- chauncy billups
- ron artest
- jason terry
- dirk nowitzky
- jerry sloan


and thats just off the top of my head




people who have the same opinion on kobe as the idiots on message boards


other message board idiots

:lol

Yet you stay on these Boards looking for validation of your boy, day in and day out, from other Posters.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/lol.gif

Why don't you join the MJ, Magic, Bird, Jerry Sloan, etc. Message Boards, to get the validation you so desperately seek.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[LongLiveTheKing]

You can't compare the Western Conference Playoff and Eastern Conference Playoffs :facepalm

Duncan is not inarguably better :facepalm

And Kareem missed the Playoffs twice in his prime.
You act like every team in the East Lebron played was crap?

[INDI]

7-9. I currently have him as 8 with it looking like

7. Shaq
8. Kobe ( will be above shaq when he retires)
9. Duncan

To me as great As Hakeem was, in this top 10 thing it comes down to achievements and he's just outside of this crew

[Deuce Bigalow]

You act like every team in the East Lebron played was crap?
Wizards in the first round

Meanwhile Kobe played a Championship Contender in the First Round

[INDI]

8 is where he belongs. Some obsessed fans rank him 5 and haters rank him 10. So most realistic fans that don't have a bias rank him 8

[Nevaeh]

You can easily cherry pick quotes to make anyone look great. Here, I'll do it with LeBron


Jerry West "LeBron is better than Kobe" (said in 2009 IIRC)

Scottie Pippen "LeBron is the greatest all around player ever"

Larry Bird "Has anyone had a better playoff run than LeBron did in 2012?"

Larry Bird "LeBron can possibly reach MJ"

Oscar Robertson "LeBron is in a class by himself"

Magic Johnson "I would say LeBron's playoff run is top 10 all time" said BEFORE NBA finals in 2012

Damn, LeLord's gotta be at least Top 6 after all them quotes!! http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Optimus Prime]

Come on now...when notorious Laker-Hater and Kobe-Basher Bill Simmons ranks Kobe Bryant SIXTH ALL TIME, it really makes you realize that Kobe Bryant has an argument for Top 5ish of all time, RIGHT NOW. Bill Simmons HATES THE LAKERS AND KOBE with all of his being (since he's an unashamed Boston homer), but even he recognizes greatness, despite his hate.

With more rings and him moving ever higher on the all time scoring list, we're starting to talk about Kobe making a play for Top 3-4 all time. But, that's a long ways off...right now...

MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Russell (I don't overvalue his most stacked teams ever like some people do, but I can see their argument since he has a ton of rings)
Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan/Bird/etc. here

:kobe:

[KG215]

Come on now...when notorious Laker-Hater and Kobe-Basher Bill Simmons ranks Kobe Bryant SIXTH ALL TIME, it really makes you realize that Kobe Bryant has an argument for Top 5ish of all time, RIGHT NOW. Bill Simmons HATES THE LAKERS AND KOBE with all of his being (since he's an unashamed Boston homer), but even he recognizes greatness, despite his hate.

With more rings and him moving ever higher on the all time scoring list, we're starting to talk about Kobe making a play for Top 3-4 all time. But, that's a long ways off...right now...

MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Russell (I don't overvalue his most stacked teams ever like some people do, but I can see their argument since he has a ton of rings)
Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan/Bird/etc. here

:kobe:

Link? When Simmons re-released the paperback version of his book, Kobe was ranked 8th.

http://nbalegacy.blogspot.com/2010/12/sports-guys-updated-hof-pyramid-2010.html

[Optimus Prime]

Link? When Simmons re-released the paperback version of his book, Kobe was ranked 8th.

http://nbalegacy.blogspot.com/2010/12/sports-guys-updated-hof-pyramid-2010.html

It was in one of this Grantland articles within the last year. I'm not going to look it up for you because all you want to do is argue (as you have done this entire thread despite all the links being provided). If you are so intensely interested (which you are not), it's out there for you to find. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I doubt it.

:kobe:

[MetsPackers]

The stans are so angry in this thread. Lol @ arguing Kobe for top 5 using quotes. For you guys claiming to be adults, im shocked that you can't see how stupid that is.

Especially the two quotes "Greatest Laker of all time" in that already foolish arguement. Kobe played like 5 more seasons than each of those guys so his longevity somewhat does justify the title, but that doesn't mean you take Kobe on your team over Magic. Kobe being a greater Laker doesn't make him a better player.

The stans are raging :roll:

And isn't Magic infamous for saying retarded stuff anyway :roll: Typical stans; anything that can be used to prop Kobe up is admissable

[MetsPackers]

Ex: KAJ >>>> Kobe

However, Kobe is a greater Laker even though both were Lakers at some point in their careers. Same with Wilt.

OMG OMG stans heads just exploded :eek: :eek:

[KG215]

It was in one of this Grantland articles within the last year. I'm not going to look it up for you because all you want to do is argue (as you have done this entire thread despite all the links being provided). If you are so intensely interested (which you are not), it's out there for you to find. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I doubt it.

:kobe:
And for the umpteenth times those cherry picked quotes and videos tell me very little. I just wanted to know where Simmons said that. Was it an article he wrote himself? Or one of those where several writers contribute?

[TheMan]

nice list...

I always have Kevin Mchale on my top 10 lists from the mid 80's....also Dr.J...I always think those 2 are criminally underrated.

Kevin Mchale was an absolute beast...from the mid to late 80's...very much as an impact player as Pippen was for the Bull's.

Dr.J was simply to great to leave him off...he was an amazing player that inspired Jordan and countless others...
You're right about McHale, might need to revise my list. Didn't Dr J retire in 87? I don't recall watching him and he was past his prime when I started paying attention to the NBA.

[NumberSix]

Ex: KAJ >>>> Kobe

However, Kobe is a greater Laker even though both were Lakers at some point in their careers. Same with Wilt.

OMG OMG stans heads just exploded :eek: :eek:
Kareem actually achieved more as a Laker than Kobe did. 5 championships, 3 MVPs and a FMVP. Got jobbed on another FMVP.

[longtime lurker]

If you want to get an unbiased opinion then don't come to ISH. Every analyst, coach, hall of famer, legends, ex teammate all rank Kobe in the top 10 without any doubt. Many have gone as far to rank him top 5 which in my opinion is absurd, but any reasonable person ranks him anywhere from 6th to 8th.

[MetsPackers]

Kareem actually achieved more as a Laker than Kobe did. 5 championships, 3 MVPs and a FMVP. Got jobbed on another FMVP.

Im speaking within the perameters of the stans' position that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time.

But I do agree that it is Kobe. Like i said kaj > kobe, but Kobe was a career Laker with still alot of accomplishments. No shot top 5 tho

[TheMan]

Come on now...when notorious Laker-Hater and Kobe-Basher Bill Simmons ranks Kobe Bryant SIXTH ALL TIME, it really makes you realize that Kobe Bryant has an argument for Top 5ish of all time, RIGHT NOW. Bill Simmons HATES THE LAKERS AND KOBE with all of his being (since he's an unashamed Boston homer), but even he recognizes greatness, despite his hate.

With more rings and him moving ever higher on the all time scoring list, we're starting to talk about Kobe making a play for Top 3-4 all time. But, that's a long ways off...right now...

MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Russell (I don't overvalue his most stacked teams ever like some people do, but I can see their argument since he has a ton of rings)
Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan/Bird/etc. here

:kobe:
4 of the 5 on that list are Lakers. No wonder they got 16 chips.

I have no problem with Kobe eventually getting near the top 5 or cracking it because you also gotta take into account longetivity, like with Kareem. Kobe still has a shot at a few more rings and records. In my list he's around the 10-12 spot but he's still only 33, he's gonna leapfrog a few legends on my list when it's all said and done.

Kobe is a great player, no doubt about that...besides, he's a fellow Jordan fan:applause:

[LakersReign]

It was in one of this Grantland articles within the last year. I'm not going to look it up for you because all you want to do is argue (as you have done this entire thread despite all the links being provided). If you are so intensely interested (which you are not), it's out there for you to find. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I doubt it.

:kobe:

That's the number 1 reason why reasonable NBA fans don't take the haters seriously. Nothing wrong with trying to debate a point. But what they try to do is try to debate FACTS, with nothing more than their made up, biased, hater opinion, that they themselves can't even back up. Simply cuz they're making it up as they go along. I just find it totally hilarious, how they try to disregard and discredit the opinions of people, who've been a part of the game for way longer than they've been watching the NBA. In favor of their own hater opinion, that they only formed back in '03 when Lebron signed with the Cavs. Then they have the gall to turn right around and get mad, when people don't believe them.:facepalm

[alleykat]

That's the number 1 reason why reasonable NBA fans don't take the haters seriously. Nothing wrong with trying to debate a point. But what they try to do is try to debate FACTS, with nothing more than their made up, biased, hater opinion, that they themselves can't even back up. Simply cuz they're making it up as they go along. I just find it totally hilarious, how they try to disregard and discredit the opinions of people, who've been a part of the game for way longer than they've been watching the NBA. In favor of their own hater opinion, that they only formed back in '03 when Lebron signed with the Cavs. Then they have the gall to turn right around and get mad, when people don't believe them.:facepalm

ahahah lol okay.....

so ur saying we shouldn't take you seriously? what about when pippen said lebron is a better player than jordan? u agree he has a point then no, regardless if it's debatable?

[G.O.A.T]

8-12 is where he can acceptable be ranked. Anyone who rates him higher sucks Kobe's dick too much and anyone who rates him lower is someone who has a serious agenda against him.

pretty much agree. Maybe as high as seven, maybe as low as 14...but that's it.

[PyrrhusX]

8-9.
The 'all time ISH rankings' are skewed by the large laker/kobe fanbase.

[Doctor Rivers]

Damn, LeLord's gotta be at least Top 6 after all them quotes!! http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif

LeBron is GOAT #1 best playa eva

[INDI]

Kobe over Wilt is disrespectful to basketball history.

Wilt is a hard guy to rank. The man was just too dominant to ignore but it was the margin and absurdity in his domination that makes us question him in the first place. Averaging 50 draws me to the only logical solution that it was not skill but size. Like when you see a 7foot high school players highlights, it just looks unfair.

I have wilt at 3-4 ( interchanging with magic). I don't have Russell in there though, I just feel that if he only won 1 championship, most wouldn't even say he was top ten so Kobe could still make the top 5 when it's all over

[rmt]

If the all-time rank is based on resume, then he's at #9 with Hakeem at #10. If it's who's the better player (with resume secondary), then he's at #10.
If it's who I'd choose to start a franchise, he's not in my top 10. I'd probably choose DRob and KG before Kobe.

[JBull]

LeBron is GOAT #1 best playa eva
:biggums:

[rmt]

its amazing how many people are kobe apostles

jordan said kobe was better than lebron multiple times... kobe apostle?

every time lebrons been asked about kobe. he said he was the best in the league ( obviously not anymore... but up until 2009 was his last quote )

kobe apostle?

popovich said kobe was better than tim duncan.... DURING TIMS PRIME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

kobe apostle?

Maybe you didn't listen carefully. Nowhere in that youtube does Popovich say that Kobe was better than Duncan. He said, "He's the most talented player." Talent does not equal better. There are other qualities besides talent that make for a better player eg. Pop mentioned trusting team mates and doing it on a consistent basis - both qualities than Duncan are much better at than Kobe.

[JBull]

Maybe you didn't listen carefully. Nowhere in that youtube does Popovich say that Kobe was better than Duncan. He said, "He's the most talented player." Talent does not equal better. There are other qualities besides talent that make for a better player eg. Pop mentioned trusting team mates and doing it on a consistent basis - both qualities than Duncan are much better at than Kobe.
You can't be seriously arguing this.

[funnystuff]

My honest unbiased list.

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russy
4. Wilty
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Hakeem
9. Kobe
10. Duncan

[RoundMoundOfReb]

so Magic / Barkley/Shaq/jerry West are stans too?
Wtf. Those same people (Magic/Barkley/Bird/Pippen) say Lebron will end up on MJ level (obviously not gonna happen).

[RoundMoundOfReb]

My honest unbiased list.

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russy
4. Wilty
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Hakeem
9. Kobe
10. Duncan
I have it almost exactly same. Only thing is that I have Duncan over Kobe.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Fair ranking for Kobe is 8-10.

[funnystuff]

I have it almost exactly same. Only thing is that I have Duncan over Kobe.
I can definitely see where you're coming from, I mean its really a wishwash for Kobe/Duncan on those 9/10 spots.

[LakersReign]

ahahah lol okay.....

so ur saying we shouldn't take you seriously? what about when pippen said lebron is a better player than jordan? u agree he has a point then no, regardless if it's debatable?

Child please:rolleyes:

You didn't even read my post, but still responded to it anyway, making yourself look dumb. Try again:no:

[longtime lurker]

Wtf. Those same people (Magic/Barkley/Bird/Pippen) say Lebron will end up on MJ level (obviously not gonna happen).

Key word is potentially. It won't happen but the potential is there.

[StateOfMind12]

My top 10 all-time, FYI

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Kobe
10. Duncan

[Deuce Bigalow]

My top 10 all-time, FYI

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Kobe
10. Duncan
What? No Yao Ming?

[KG215]

I admittedly made some heated and immature posts in this thread and shouldn't have even bothered with some of the posts. AlphaWolf, I strongly disagree with almost everything you post, but I apologize for being an ass.

kennethgriffin, I still haven't figured you out. I think you're mostly trolling to have some fun, but at other times it seems like you're being completely serious...so I don't know.

Here's my problem with some of what you guys say. It's not that you think Kobe is in the 5-7 range all-time. That's your opinion and that's fine. It's not any more wrong or any more right than me thinking he's in the 7-10 range. It's how you act like it's some huge travesty when people say he's more in the 7-10 or 7-12 range or whatever. kennethgriffin, you especially, are extremely hypocritical.

You say something like this:
http://207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php?p=7544253#post7544253

jesus christ why does everyone here think their opinion is the end all be all and their sh** dont stink or something

Then get offended and start a thread and rant and ramble on and on about why everyone else is wrong, and why Kobe is in fact, top 5-7 all-time. You try to mask it by saying it's your opinion, and try to back-up what you say with quotes and videos, but it's not any different than what most of us are doing when we say he's top 7/10/12 or whatever.


when you absolutely get down to the full resume... kobes is vastly superior in many aspects compared to those other guys... and when you take in overall fundimental skill... its not even close IMO

First off, what in the hell does fundamental skill have to do with all-time rankings. They should be based on what they did on the court. If one center and one guard have the exact same accomplishments or are fairly close in accomplishments, one player shouldn't get the nod over the other simply because he was more "skilled" or "fundamental".


Then you say shit like this and expect everyone to agree with you.


if you ask 100 random people 100 random times in 100 random contries

99% will have kobe behind only jordan and magic for the most part...

part of all time rankings is being a polarizing figure... kobe is on that level of a jordan, magic name wise... its not just about his stacked resume or level of play.
How do you know that? How in the hell could you possibly know that, if you polled 100 random people 100 random times in 100 different countries, they'd mostly only have Kobe behind Jordan and Magic? And even if they did, how does that justify what you believe about Kobe's legacy?

And I've never, not once, seen someone say how polarizing a player is/was should play a role in where they're ranked all-time. This is the kind of stuff you do. You start making up shit that I guess justifies (in your mind) what you believe about Kobe and where he should be ranked, and go on and on about why you're right.

I could sit here all night and dig up the threads you've started the last month or so and go through your posts one-by-one and point out how some ridiculous some of the stuff you say is, but it's not worth the time or effort.

You know...if you truly believe Kobe should be ranked top 5 all-time, that's fine. It's your opinion and you have every right to state your opinion. It's just the way you go about it by acting so enraged by people saying Kobe isn't top 5 all-time, then start a new thread, and do the exact same thing you get mad at other posters for doing.

[alleykat]

Child please:rolleyes:

You didn't even read my post, but still responded to it anyway, making yourself look dumb. Try again:no:

nice try brah.....making complete and logical reasoning on your own stuff is hard huh? it's aite i don't expect much from these message boards....lemme explain

logical people don't take haters seriously or listen to them right? isn't that what you wrote?
so LBJ has something to do with this topic how? o w8 he doesn't....but you just wrote a whole post about fans of him.....

so do i need to figure this out more for you?

anyways i'm not here to grill (although its fun).....i can agree that kobe at the very least should be top #8. I would say anywhere between #6-#8

[kennethgriffin]

I admittedly made some heated and immature posts in this thread and shouldn't have even bothered with some of the posts. AlphaWolf, I strongly disagree with almost everything you post, but I apologize for being an ass.

kennethgriffin, I still haven't figured you out. I think you're mostly trolling to have some fun, but at other times it seems like you're being completely serious...so I don't know.

Here's my problem with some of what you guys say. It's not that you think Kobe is in the 5-7 range all-time. That's your opinion and that's fine. It's not any more wrong or any more right than me thinking he's in the 7-10 range. It's how you act like it's some huge travesty when people say he's more in the 7-10 or 7-12 range or whatever. kennethgriffin, you especially, are extremely hypocritical.

You say something like this:
http://207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php?p=7544253#post7544253


Then get offended and start a thread and rant and ramble on and on about why everyone else is wrong, and why Kobe is in fact, top 5-7 all-time. You try to mask it by saying it's your opinion, and try to back-up what you say with quotes and videos, but it's not any different than what most of us are doing when we say he's top 7/10/12 or whatever.


First off, what in the hell does fundamental skill have to do with all-time rankings. They should be based on what they did on the court. If one center and one guard have the exact same accomplishments or are fairly close in accomplishments, one player shouldn't get the nod over the other simply because he was more "skilled" or "fundamental".


Then you say shit like this and expect everyone to agree with you.


How do you know that? How in the hell could you possibly know that, if you polled 100 random people 100 random times in 100 different countries, they'd mostly only have Kobe behind Jordan and Magic? And even if they did, how does that justify what you believe about Kobe's legacy?

And I've never, not once, seen someone say how polarizing a player is/was should play a role in where they're ranked all-time. This is the kind of stuff you do. You start making up shit that I guess justifies (in your mind) what you believe about Kobe and where he should be ranked, and go on and on about why you're right.

I could sit here all night and dig up the threads you've started the last month or so and go through your posts one-by-one and point out how some ridiculous some of the stuff you say is, but it's not worth the time or effort.

You know...if you truly believe Kobe should be ranked top 5 all-time, that's fine. It's your opinion and you have every right to state your opinion. It's just the way you go about it by acting so enraged by people saying Kobe isn't top 5 all-time, then start a new thread, and do the exact same thing you get mad at other posters for doing.


this guys all over ma nu*ts

:lol


he mad cause the entire world is against him





he knows deap down that whenever people mention jordan they say "kobes there"

every time i hear a "can lebron catch mike" debate... kobes name always somehow comes up LOL


they say "lebrons trying to get where mike and kobe are. he aint there yet"

this must eat kg215 up inside


:roll:

[LakersReign]

nice try brah.....making complete and logical reasoning on your own stuff is hard huh? it's aite i don't expect much from these message boards....lemme explain

logical people don't take haters seriously or listen to them right? isn't that what you wrote?
so LBJ has something to do with this topic how? o w8 he doesn't....but you just wrote a whole post about fans of him.....

so do i need to figure this out more for you?

anyways i'm not here to grill (although its fun).....i can agree that kobe at the very least should be top #8. I would say anywhere between #6-#8

More proof that you never bothered to read my post to begin with. Just like ALL Lebronytes, you saw the name Lebron, realized it was a Lakers/Kobe fan post, and made up the rest. Keep throwing sh*t against the wall to see what sticks. Good luck with all that:sleeping

[KG215]

this guys all over ma nu*ts

:lol


he mad cause the entire world is against him





he knows deap down that whenever people mention jordan they say "kobes there"

every time i hear a "can lebron catch mike" debate... kobes name always somehow comes up LOL


they say "lebrons trying to get where mike and kobe are. he aint there yet"

this must eat kg215 up inside


:roll:

There you go...making up more shit. Saying everyone (who are these everyone you always refer to?) agrees with you.

But yeah...I'm so mad because you've somehow proven "the whole world is against me."

[kennethgriffin]

There you go...making up more shit. Saying everyone (who are these everyone you always refer to?) agrees with you.

But yeah...I'm so mad because you've somehow proven "the whole world is against me."


hah! hypocrite! for such a word for word stickler. you failed because i didn't use the actual word "everyone" at any time in the message you quoted me on!


DERP!

lol see now you know how it feels



aside from that. sorry bro. i know you're a robotic troll that needs someone to say "79.48 percentile of human beings over the age of so and so believe this and that "


but the fact that MOST say something is such. it makes it such... know why? because anything that is determined by OPINION is made FACT by MAJORITY RULE in a DEMOCRACY


and we live in one....



you can look up a bunch of these kobe polls on google btw... seemingly every time i find one. it has kobe there.

just found one now

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/522032-kobe-bryant-more-than-an-all-time-great-a-top-5-player-ever

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/gtewg.png
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/rewgtrw.png


:lol


this is the norm... only time i see kobe hatred in all time rankings is on a message board with idiotic 10 year olds or letots with a d*ck up their a**

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[KG215]

Sweet, you found a Bleacher Report article that agrees with your stance. I'm convinced now.

And I'm sure I could do a Google search and find just as many people saying Kobe is top 7-10 all-time.

[kennethgriffin]

Sweet, you found a Bleacher Report article that agrees with your stance. I'm convinced now.

And I'm sure I could do a Google search and find just as many people saying Kobe is top 7-10 all-time.

uh oh another one

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1242698-kobe-bryant-where-does-he-belong-among-the-all-time-greats

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/tewhtr.png

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/t543yh4.png

:lol


and sure... find me fan polls and not 1 guy writing an article saying his opinion

anything after 2010

[RRR3]

Sweet, you found a Bleacher Report article that agrees with your stance. I'm convinced now.

And I'm sure I could do a Google search and find just as many people saying Kobe is top 7-10 all-time.
Nah, man that article clearly is the truth! Kobe shot 6-24 (6 whole field goals, 6 count 'em, six not five, SIX!) in game 7 of the finals! Clearly the GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

Nah, man that article clearly is the truth! Kobe shot 6-24 (6 whole field goals, 6 count 'em, six not five, SIX!) in game 7 of the finals! Clearly the GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

lol jordan had a really bad last game of the 1996 finals

does anyone remember that over his finals mvp?

[RRR3]

lol jordan had a really bad last game of the 1996 finals

does anyone remember that over his finals mvp?
6-24, Mamba comin' up huge when it matters most:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Much better than that scrub LeBron, he only had a triple-double in the last game of the finals :facepalm

[KG215]

and sure... find me fan polls and not 1 guy writing an article saying his opinion

anything after 2010

You're on a roll. Another Bleacher Report article with a fan poll. I'm convinced now.

And no, because I think cherry picking internet fan polls and Bleacher Report articles to back-up my opinion is incredibly ignorant. What does a fan poll prove? How am I supposed to know if it's skewed or not by the large Lakers/Kobe fanbase?

[Jacks3]

If someone much more likeable like West had 5 rings and the type of longevity Bryant has had, I'm convinced plenty of people would have him in their top 5-6.

Or at least they wouldn't view it as a complete joke like they do with Bryant.

Maybe I'm biased, but Kobe doesn't seem to get nearly as much credit as he should. He does seem to be incredibly polarizing and frankly people seem to become unreasonable when they discuss his career.

[Heavincent]

Kobe is widely regarded as a top 5 player though. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's just what a lot of people think. Then again, Justin Bieber is probably the most popular...uh..."noise maker" in the industry (doesn't deserve to be called a musician), so I'm definitely not using the popularity argument to say he's top 5 all time. His resume and level of play is pretty ****ing amazing though. 5 rings, 2 FMVP's, and bla bla we all know about the ridiculous amount of accolades he has. I'd say his resume stacks up against anybody who isn't named Jordan, Kareem, or Russell. Like I said, I have him at #7, but I really don't think it's complete blasphemy to put him at #5.

And did I really just mention Kobe and Justin Bieber in the same post?

[kennethgriffin]

You're on a roll. Another Bleacher Report article with a fan poll. I'm convinced now.

And no, because I think cherry picking internet fan polls and Bleacher Report articles to back-up my opinion is incredibly ignorant. What does a fan poll prove? How am I supposed to know if it's skewed or not by the large Lakers/Kobe fanbase?


thats right... a fan poll


give me 3000 peoples opinions over 1 dumb sports writer any day of the week

a writer is a fan just like any one of us... infact. sports writers are as obsessed with the game as some people on message boards... and the last thing i would take with any credibility would be a single lone message board type fans opinion as the end all be all


and i did tell you that at the end of the day the casual fan decides whos the best

its what makes jordan the best


if every espn head said wilt was the best tomorow... it wouldnt changed the fact that most of the world picks MJ

[RRR3]

Kobe is widely regarded as a top 5 player though. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's just what a lot of people think. Then again, Justin Bieber is probably the most popular...uh..."noise maker" in the industry (doesn't deserve to be called a musician), so I'm definitely not using the popularity argument to say he's top 5 all time. His resume and level of play is pretty ****ing amazing though. 5 rings, 2 FMVP's, and bla bla we all know about the ridiculous amount of accolades he has. I'd say his resume stacks up against anybody who isn't named Jordan, Kareem, or Russell. Like I said, I have him at #7, but I really don't think it's complete blasphemy to put him at #5.

And did I really just mention Kobe and Justin Bieber in the same post?
Kobe=justin bieber of the NBA. You heard it from heavincent first, folks. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[alleykat]

More proof that you never bothered to read my post to begin with. Just like ALL Lebronytes, you saw the name Lebron, realized it was a Lakers/Kobe fan post, and made up the rest. Keep throwing sh*t against the wall to see what sticks. Good luck with all that:sleeping

heheh....ya that was my bad.....i got u and this kenneth dude confused cuz ur arguing from the same side....

wth is a lebronyte anyways? u gotta admit half of wut u write is bias and I'm assuming "lebronyte" is supposed to be insulting, yet u still say "haters don't shouldn't be listened to" and assume ur not one of them....

be real brutha, u not impartial in the least bit

[Mr Know It All]

Ranking career wise? Kobe is definitely top 10, there is no doubt about it.


Ranking as an individual talent, peak play, statistical dominance, etc? Kobe is probably top 20.

[KG215]

lol jordan had a really bad last game of the 1996 finals

does anyone remember that over his finals mvp?

Not really but, for whatever reason, a lot of people around here seam to remember Kobe's 6/24 Finals game.

[LakersReign]

heheh....ya that was my bad.....i got u and this kenneth dude confused cuz ur arguing from the same side....

wth is a lebronyte anyways? u gotta admit half of wut u write is bias and I'm assuming "lebronyte" is supposed to be insulting, yet u still say "haters don't shouldn't be listened to" and assume ur not one of them....

be real brutha, u not impartial in the least bit

AND.....you continue to WILLINGLY, make yourself look more and more ret**ded. You just admitted to not reading my post, then, in the very next sentence, tell me what I wrote was supposedly biased, since you know that by never bothering to read it to begin with. Please continue responding to me, proving you have no real point here, other than continuing to further embarrass yourself.:hammerhead:

[DirtySanchez]

Why the f.ck does this thread have legs and stills exists?

[Jacks3]

Not really but, for whatever reason, a lot of people around here seam to remember Kobe's 6/24 Finals game.
Duncan also has a 10-28 game 7 in the 05 Finals.

Nobody ever talks about that.

Dirk went 9-27 in 2011 Game 6.

Nobody remembers that.

Just goes to show you the ridiculous double-standards with Kobe.

[RRR3]

Not really but, for whatever reason, a lot of people around here seam to remember Kobe's 6/24 Finals game.
Gawdbe :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
6-24 :bowdown:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duncan also has a 10-28 game 7 in the 05 Finals.

Nobody ever talks about that.

Dirk went 9-27 in 2011 Game 6.

Nobody remembers that.

Just goes to show you the ridiculous double-standards with Kobe.
Wilt shooting 2-11 from the freethrow line in a 1 point Finals loss ('69 Finals, Game 4) is worse than all. Only scored 8 points too.

[DirtySanchez]

Gawdbe :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
6-24 :bowdown:

Each game of that series was won by the team with more boards....how many boards did Kobe have. And count the many trips to the foul line he had as well.

Wow different game for him all of a sudden.

[PyrrhusX]

I don't get it... it's a thread asking what individuals who are non-Kobe fans think in terms of Kobe's all time ranking. The general consensus seems to believe the 8-10 range is adequate and that should be the end of the thread.

But then, some bleachers report worshipping troll blows everything out of proportion because we don't agree with HIS OPINION of his silly 'gawd'.

Kenneth man, take a dam break, you obviously have a hard on for Kobe ... but we are trying to get an unbiased view on this. Also note that bleacreport is basically a site of bandwagon youth fans who don't know individuals outside of MJ and the current salvo of stars.

[Quickening]

10 years after his retired and the media hype is gone, he will be around the 20 mark.

[Alan Ogg]

For me, a case for Kobe can be made anywhere in the 5-10 range. There's not much separating the best players of all time.

[Quickening]

For me, a case for Kobe can be made anywhere in the 5-10 range. There's not much separating the best players of all time.

Make a case for Kobe being 5th all time... 1 MVP, 2 FMVP and his stat line through his career.

Go.

[WockaVodka]

He is 10th but he is on the verge of being pushed out by Lebron soon.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Make a case for Kobe being 5th all time... 1 MVP, 2 FMVP and his stat line through his career.

Go.
4 players that have had a more accomplished career: MJ, Magic, Kareem, Russell

Now let compare Kobe's career to the remaining players

Kobe--5 Titles/ 2 FMVPs/ 1 MVP/ 14 All-Star Teams/ 14 All-NBA Teams/ 2 Scoring Titles/ 10 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Wilt--2 Titles/ 2 FMVPs/ 4 MVPs/ 13 All-Star Teams/ 10 All-NBA Teams/ 7 Scoring Titles/ 10 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Bird--3 Titles/2 FMVP/3 MVP/12 All-Star Teams/9 All-NBA Teams/9 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Shaq--4 Titles/ 3 FMVPs/ 1 MVP/ 15 All-Star Teams/ 14 All-NBA Teams/ 2 Scoring Titles/ 8 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Duncan--4 Titles/ 3 FMVPs/ 2 MVPs/ 13 All-Star Teams/ 13 All-NBA Teams/ 9 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Hakeem--2 Titles/ 2 FMVPs/ 1 MVP/ 12 All-Star Teams/ 12 All-NBA Teams/ 2 DPOYs/ 6 times Top 5 in MVP Voting

[RRR3]

Each game of that series was won by the team with more boards....how many boards did Kobe have. And count the many trips to the foul line he had as well.

Wow different game for him all of a sudden.
I watched it one of the worst games I've seen Kobe play, or at least it was until this past year when he threw up 3-21, 3-22, 6-28 and 8-31 (but IIRC he started of 6-8 and finished 2-23). Before you freak out I still think he deserved FMVP, so don't go painting me as one of those "Pau was FMVP" guys :lol BTW why are you still using this account? Isn't it superfluous now?

[Quickening]

4 players that have had a more accomplished career: MJ, Magic, Kareem, Russell

Now let compare Kobe's career to the remaining players

Kobe--5 Titles/ 2 FMVPs/ 1 MVP/ 14 All-Star Teams/ 14 All-NBA Teams/ 2 Scoring Titles/ 10 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Wilt--2 Titles/ 2 FMVPs/ 4 MVPs/ 13 All-Star Teams/ 10 All-NBA Teams/ 7 Scoring Titles/ 10 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Bird--3 Titles/2 FMVP/3 MVP/12 All-Star Teams/9 All-NBA Teams/9 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Shaq--4 Titles/ 3 FMVPs/ 1 MVP/ 15 All-Star Teams/ 14 All-NBA Teams/ 2 Scoring Titles/ 8 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Duncan--4 Titles/ 3 FMVPs/ 2 MVPs/ 13 All-Star Teams/ 13 All-NBA Teams/ 9 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Hakeem--2 Titles/ 2 FMVPs/ 1 MVP/ 12 All-Star Teams/ 12 All-NBA Teams/ 2 DPOYs/ 6 times Top 5 in MVP Voting

Still awaiting someone to make a case.:lol :roll: :applause:

[RRR3]

Still awaiting someone to make a case.:lol :roll: :applause:
not disagreeing per se, but u were a lakers fan a few months ago:coleman:

[Quickening]

not disagreeing per se, but u were a lakers fan a few months ago:coleman:

Your point being?

[Graviton]

Is it me or are Bird/Wilt a little overrated? I would put Duncan, Shaq and Kobe over them. Shaq for pure domination and the others for being elite on both ends and winning more titles.

I think most would agree Bird had more stacked teams than those 3 guys, but he won less. Kobe=5/2 FMVPs, Shaq=4/3 FMVPs, Duncan=4/3FMVPs, Bird=3/2 FMVPs. I just don't know what makes Bird better as far as career accomplishments go. Couple more MVPs are that important? Lebron is considered a better overall player than Bird, and only needs the titles to pass him. Bird himself already says Lebron is better.

As for Wilt, yes he was amazing and yes he did break records, but does he deserve to be over so many others that won more and were just as dominant in their own eras? His videogame stats are great, but it just seems like he is automatically Top 5 just for those records. Yet I bet few, if any, have actually seen him play.

[INDI]

Make a case for Kobe being 5th all time... 1 MVP, 2 FMVP and his stat line through his career.

Go.

When it's all said and done it will look like this


-5 rings (possibility for 1 or 2 more)
-2x scoring champ
-Will be the 3rd leading scorer of alltime
- 16 allstar appearances
-12 all defensive teams (possibility for 1 or 2 more)
-16 all nba selections
- scored 81 in a single game
- most 3 pointers in a game in nba history
- many nba greats are on record stating he is either top 5 or say that he is the greatest laker ever (which magic is considered top 5 and the only one that was a full time laker)

For those of you that think he only scored

He is a great all around player also, let me prove it. And argue facts not opinions because y'all are quick to put up facts like shaq got the 3 finals MVP

9 defensive firsts
13 consecutive years of atleast 4.5 assists
Currently at 17th alltime steals where if he plays 3 seasons will be in the top ten





When people put him in the Top ten the only think scoring, but he also was a defensive beast and was their main assist guy. Anyone that discredits achievements has a bias. I think it's ridiculous that every single award another player got is never argued but every single award Kobe got y'all try to diminish


Mike and kaj is the only two that still shines brighter than Kobe's resume. So career wise he will be in talks for the 3-7 slots

[INDI]

How many defensive lists shaq made? Magic? Bird?

Offense is half the game, when you add in the other half kobe blows the comp out the water

[INDI]

4 players that have had a more accomplished career: MJ, Magic,Kareem, Russell

Now let compare Kobe's career to the remaining players

Kobe--5 Titles/ 2 FMVPs/ 1 MVP/ 14 All-Star Teams/ 14 All-NBA Teams/ 2 Scoring Titles/ 10 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Wilt--2 Titles/ 2 FMVPs/ 4 MVPs/ 13 All-Star Teams/ 10 All-NBA Teams/ 7 Scoring Titles/ 10 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Bird--3 Titles/2 FMVP/3 MVP/12 All-Star Teams/9 All-NBA Teams/9 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Shaq--4 Titles/ 3 FMVPs/ 1 MVP/ 15 All-Star Teams/ 14 All-NBA Teams/ 2 Scoring Titles/ 8 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Duncan--4 Titles/ 3 FMVPs/ 2 MVPs/ 13 All-Star Teams/ 13 All-NBA Teams/ 9 times Top 5 in MVP Voting
Hakeem--2 Titles/ 2 FMVPs/ 1 MVP/ 12 All-Star Teams/ 12 All-NBA Teams/ 2 DPOYs/ 6 times Top 5 in MVP Voting

I wouldn't say magic achieved more, he has him beat in mvps but Kobe's scoring game is on par with magics passing game. And Kobe's defensive achievements eclipses magics all around game. Kobe has broken a lot more records as well.

Currently I consider them tied in accomplishments but think Kobe gets the nod by the time he retires (on accomplishments)

[blablabla]

top 7

[Deuce Bigalow]

I wouldn't say magic achieved more, he has him beat in mvps but Kobe's scoring game is on par with magics passing game. And Kobe's defensive achievements eclipses magics all around game. Kobe has broken a lot more records as well.

Currently I consider them tied in accomplishments but think Kobe gets the nod by the time he retires (on accomplishments)
Magic dominated the game more, and accomplished more.
Kobe won't surpass him. Magic is the 2nd greatest ever in my opinion and Kobe has a chance for 5th at the highest. I would easily take Magic on my team over Kobe and I'm a Kobe fan.

[NumberSix]

When it's all said and done it will look like this


-5 rings (possibility for 1 or 2 more)
-2x scoring champ
-Will be the 3rd leading scorer of alltime
- 16 allstar appearances
-14 all defensive teams (possibility for 1 or 2 more)
-16 all nba selections
- scored 81 in a single game
- most 3 pointers in a game in nba history
- many nba greats are on record stating he is either top 5 or say that he is the greatest laker ever (which magic is considered top 5 and the only one that was a full time laker)
:facepalm

[INDI]

:facepalm

My bad, it was 12 selections

[INDI]

Magic dominated the game more, and accomplished more.
Kobe won't surpass him. Magic is the 2nd greatest ever in my opinion and Kobe has a chance for 5th at the highest. I would easily take Magic on my team over Kobe and I'm a Kobe fan.

I would select magic also. My argument though is that Kobe WILL be in the conversation for his slot when it's all over.

The same way bill Russell is in the conversation. I hate it because I feel that had the man played for a different team back then and only won 1 championship, he would be sitting next to petit in these lists not next to Kareem. At some point you do have to take into consideration popular opinion. In my heart in terms of skill he would be 16th-20th. But because of the rings and popular opinion I keep him in my top ten.

Like it or not Kobe will be in the conversation for magic's slot. He will join the bionic 6 ( mj, kaj, magic, wilt, Russell, bird) and make them the magnificent seven. Flip flopping on people's lists for the slots 3-7.

[Chrono90]

top 7 right now. can still move up

[red1]

kobe is top 10, ranked somewhere alongside shaq and duncan

[alleykat]

AND.....you continue to WILLINGLY, make yourself look more and more ret**ded. You just admitted to not reading my post, then, in the very next sentence, tell me what I wrote was supposedly biased, since you know that by never bothering to read it to begin with. Please continue responding to me, proving you have no real point here, other than continuing to further embarrass yourself.:hammerhead:

doesn't matter if i didn't read ur post homie because u just put urself in exactly the same context i was talking about

what i'm saying is correct regardless......u just confirmed it by calling dudes "lebronytes" then said some crap like "all lebronytes do this"....

wasn't originally meant for u, but it applies now don't it? :applause:

[KG215]

How many defensive lists shaq made? Magic? Bird?

Offense is half the game, when you add in the other half kobe blows the comp out the water

Yeah, not really fair to knock Shaq on his defense based on All-Defense teams. It's not the same. There's one spot for centers on each team and he played basically his entire career with a host of other great defensive centers: Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo, and Ben Wallace.

Bird and Magic weren't ever known for their all-world defense but both were very good in certain aspects of defense.

[LakersReign]

doesn't matter if i didn't read ur post homie because u just put urself in exactly the same context i was talking about

what i'm saying is correct regardless......u just confirmed it by calling dudes "lebronytes" then said some crap like "all lebronytes do this"....

wasn't originally meant for u, but it applies now don't it? :applause:


More proof that you never bothered to read my post to begin with. Just like ALL Lebronytes, you saw the name Lebron, realized it was a Lakers/Kobe fan post, and made up the rest. Keep throwing sh*t against the wall to see what sticks. Good luck with all that:sleepinghttp://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275909&page=8

I REST MY CASE!!!!:sleeping

[BoutPractice]

All time rankings are just imaginary to begin with... it really depends on what you're ranking.

If you're ranking careers, Kobe is in very, very special company.
If you're taking into account things like popularity, significance and legendary moments, he's up there with the greatest.
But if you primarily value a player's actual impact on the court, he's simply a notch below some of the other all time greats no matter how much he tries. That is no knock on him, to start with his position makes things more difficult, you have to be MJ to truly put a stamp on the game as a scoring SG.

Trying to combine all aspects makes it difficult not to put Kobe in the top 10, and probably a bit exaggerated to put him in the top 5.

[Vertical-24]

All time rankings are just imaginary to begin with... it really depends on what you're ranking.

If you're ranking careers, Kobe is in very, very special company.
If you're taking into account things like popularity, significance and legendary moments, he's up there with the greatest.
But if you primarily value a player's actual impact on the court, he's simply a notch below some of the other all time greats no matter how much he tries. That is no knock on him, to start with his position makes things more difficult, you have to be MJ to truly put a stamp on the game as a scoring SG.

Trying to combine all aspects makes it difficult not to put Kobe in the top 10, and probably a bit exaggerated to put him in the top 5.

Great unbiased, down the middle post. Well said :cheers:

[Hands of Iron]

All time rankings are just imaginary to begin with... it really depends on what you're ranking.

If you're ranking careers, Kobe is in very, very special company.
If you're taking into account things like popularity, significance and legendary moments, he's up there with the greatest.

But if you primarily value a player's actual impact on the court, he's simply a notch below some of the other all time greats no matter how much he tries. That is no knock on him, to start with his position makes things more difficult, you have to be MJ to truly put a stamp on the game as a scoring SG.

Trying to combine all aspects makes it difficult not to put Kobe in the top 10, and probably a bit exaggerated to put him in the top 5.

Exactly. And for some of us, that carries equal or even greater significance than accolades and achievements. I don't think Kobe Bryant was better than Hakeem Olajuwon as a basketball player regardless of accolades, for instance. Jordan coming back and winning 3 more titles isnt what makes me consider him greater than Kobe. He could have three total (the first ones) and I'd still think that. Does winning matter? Of course, it does. It's basically a prerequisite for Top 10 clearance regardless of your stats and impact. It's something to validate the impact and numbers. It also matters how you perform in doing so, not just counting up Finals MVPs without any consideration to the performance and dominance displayed. Take Shaq's first two vs Kobe's two... I dont think they're in the same stratosphere to be honest.

[swag2011]

Exactly. And for some of us, that carries equal or even greater significance than accolades and achievements. I don't think Kobe Bryant was better than Hakeem Olajuwon as a basketball player regardless of accolades, for instance. Jordan coming back and winning 3 more titles isnt what makes me consider him greater than Kobe. He could have three total (the first ones) and I'd still think that. Does winning matter? Of course, it does. It's basically a prerequisite for Top 10 clearance regardless of your stats and impact. It's something to validate the impact and numbers. It also matters how you perform in doing so, not just counting up Finals MVPs without any consideration to the performance and dominance displayed. Take Shaq's first two vs Kobe's two... I dont think they're in the same stratosphere to be honest.

While i agree that peak play or dominance is very important, i don't believe that kobe gets a fair shake on that either. And i think it's INCREDIBLY stupid to compare the performance and dominance displayed of Shaq to Kobe, when Shaq is considered by most the be most dominant player in history. So in reality, NOT many people were more dominant then him, obviously they aren't in the same stratosphere.

With Kobe, his best seasons came when he had Smush Parker. Obviously they did not win much, but think about it, you're only as good as your supporting cast right? Look at others in the top 10. Shaq had Kobe when Shaq was in his prime. Result? 3 championships. Magic and Kareem had each other in their primes. Result? 5 championships. Jordan had Pippen in each others primes. Result? 6 championships. Larry Bird had Walton, Mchale, and Parish while he was in his prime. Result? Championships. Get what I'm saying?


Alot of people say Kobe's had more help than anyone blah blah blah, but when you look at it, during the seasons where he was at his complete best as a player and health wise, he simply did not have the help that any of those guys did and all of them are considered to be top 10 or for sure hall of famers.
Just he did not win in his prime, does not mean he wasn't as dominant or performed to the best of his ability. Alot of people overlook those seasons just because he didn't win and i don't really think that's fair, for reasons i explained above.

People honestly forget that he had to literally score 40 or 50 or even more a night for his team to even have a chance to win. I mean for **** sake he outscored Dallas, a top team in the NBA all by HIMSELF. How many people have done that before? People can laugh or nit pick about his 45% career FG% (which honestly is NOT even bad) all they want but nobody can tell me Kobe wasn't the sh*t when he was averaged 40 points a month on several occasions or plenty of his other high scoring games.

I'm not saying he was as dominant or great as those other guys, but what i'm saying is don't blow off or forget those years just because he didn't win. Just cause he didn't win, doesn't make his performance any less dominant imo.

[Hands of Iron]

While i agree that peak play or dominance is very important, i don't believe that kobe gets a fair shake on that either. And i think it's INCREDIBLY stupid to compare the performance and dominance displayed of Shaq to Kobe, when Shaq is considered by most the be most dominant player in history. So in reality, NOT many people were more dominant then him, obviously they aren't in the same stratosphere.

Exactly. So why the hell would I or anybody else rate Kobe over him?


With Kobe, his best seasons came when he had Smush Parker. Obviously they did not win much, but think about it, you're only as good as your supporting cast right? Look at others in the top 10. Shaq had Kobe when Shaq was in his prime. Result? 3 championships. Magic and Kareem had each other in their primes. Result? 5 championships. Jordan had Pippen in each others primes. Result? 6 championships. Larry Bird had Walton, Mchale, and Parish while he was in his prime. Result? Championships. Get what I'm saying?


Alot of people say Kobe's had more help than anyone blah blah blah, but when you look at it, during the seasons where he was at his complete best as a player and health wise, he simply did not have the help that any of those guys did and all of them are considered to be top 10 or for sure hall of famers.

Just he did not win in his prime, does not mean he wasn't as dominant or performed to the best of his ability. Alot of people overlook those seasons just because he didn't win and i don't really think that's fair, for reasons i explained above.

People honestly forget that he had to literally score 40 or 50 or even more a night for his team to even have a chance to win. I mean for **** sake he outscored Dallas, a top team in the NBA all by HIMSELF. How many people have done that before? People can laugh or nit pick about his 45% career FG% (which honestly is NOT even bad) all they want but nobody can tell me Kobe wasn't the sh*t when he was averaged 40 points a month on several occasions or plenty of his other high scoring games.

I'm not saying he was as dominant or great as those other guys, but what i'm saying is don't blow off or forget those years just because he didn't win. Just cause he didn't win, doesn't make his performance any less dominant imo.

I don't hold any of that against him, anymore than I hold 2009 against Lebron, 1988-90 against Jordan when he didnt win and was white shit hot ridiculous in both the regular season and playoffs. Kobe had a great peak as one of the premier scorers in NBA history and I've never suggested otherwise. I've been harsh on him lately because people are telling me he was the Lakers best player during the 2000-2002 three-peat when I know for an absolute fact that it's Complete Bullshit as I lived through it. So.. Shaq had arguably the most dominant peak ever and was in it during the threepeat. Kobe's not in the conversation in that particular category, wasn't at his peak during the time anyway and yet... No. Just no.

[Hands of Iron]

Can you imagine the hysteria if for six straight years, in the playoffs, Kobe...

36/7/5 53%
35/7/8 51%
37/7/7 51%
31/6/8 52%
35/6/6 50%
35/7/6 48%

Lebron did something similar -- for one playoffs in 2009 -- and people are still collectively busting their nuts over it.

[fpliii]

I have him at #7 at the moment, but that's really a copout I suppose (after the near-consensus top 6, before everyone else). Bottom half of the top 10 is definitely the right ballpark, but I haven't given enough thought to his exact placement.

[G.O.A.T]

I have him at #7 at the moment, but that's really a copout I suppose (after the near-consensus top 6, before everyone else). Bottom half of the top 10 is definitely the right ballpark, but I haven't given enough thought to his exact placement.

What is it about KB that gives him the edge over Tim Duncan over their comparable careers?

[fpliii]

What is it about KB that gives him the edge over Tim Duncan over their comparable careers?

nothing really

I have little interest in comparing players; I care far more about learning as much as I can about guys, and don't really care much about exact placement

Duncan could very well be ahead of Kobe if/when I do put together my personal ranking, but for now I'll feign ignorance

on a side note though, I give Robinson more credit than most on those "Twin Tower" Spurs teams (particularly as the defensive anchor in 99)

EDIT: BTW, I'm wondering where you happen to place Erving, and how much you value his time in the ABA (compared to say, Kareem's tenure in the NBA during the same time period)?

[Heilige]

Can you imagine the hysteria if for six straight years, in the playoffs, Kobe...

36/7/5 53%
35/7/8 51%
37/7/7 51%
31/6/8 52%
35/6/6 50%
35/7/6 48%

Lebron did something similar -- for one playoffs in 2009 -- and people are still collectively busting their nuts over it.


This.

What is your top 10 list like?

[Jacks3]

Yeah, Kobe only has playoff runs of...

29+/7+/6+/2+ (Championship)
27/6/5/2 (Championship)
30/6/6/2 (Finals)
30/6/5/2 (Championship)
29/6/6/2 (Championship)

What's the point of bringing up Jordan? smh.

[Devientz]

What is it about KB that gives him the edge over Tim Duncan over their comparable careers?

Not trying to be smart with you, but what is it that would give TD the edge over Kobe? Just curious.

(Personally think you could make a case for either one of them)

[Hands of Iron]

Not trying to be smart with you, but what is it that would give TD the edge over Kobe? Just curious.

(Personally think you could make a case for either one of them)

Probably his two-way impact, being one of the best defensive anchors of his or any generation, as well as an elite rebounder. Not too bad offensively either in terms of both volume and efficiency. He also had two dominant Finals performances in 1999 and 2003.

[Jacks3]

Yeah, he's had some really good runs. Don't know why you left out the efficiency though (or do I?).
56% TS in 01. +3.5% relative to league average.
52% TS in 02. At league average.
58% TS in 08. +4%.
56.4 TS in 09. +1.9%
57% TS in 2010. +3%.

So generally excellent efficiency.

*shrug*

[RRR3]

56% TS in 01. +3.5% relative to league average.
52% TS in 02. At league average.
58% TS in 08. +4%.
56.4 TS in 09. +1.9%
57% TS in 2010. +3%.

So generally excellent efficiency.

*shrug*
Thank god Kobe is a brilliant free throw shooter and that there is a stat that uses that so Kobe stans have a stat to make him look efficient! :banana:

[Hands of Iron]

Thank god Kobe is a brilliant free throw shooter and that there is a stat that uses that so Kobe stans have a stat to make him look efficient! :banana:

Yeah, and Shaq is a terrible FT shooter who doesn't take threes. So imagine the surprise when I found there wasn't a playoff run, finals or elimination game the Lakers had during the threepeat in which Kobe had a better TS% than him. Brought him closer to God, but arms still a little too short to box with.

Lakers 3-Peat

2000 Playoffs:
Kobe: 21/5/4 44% FG, 52% TS
Shaq: 31/15/3 57% FG, 56% TS

2000 Finals:
Kobe: 16/5/4 37% FG, 41% TS
Shaq: 38/17/3 61% FG, 58% TS

2001 Playoffs:
Kobe: 29/7/6 47% FG, 55% TS
Shaq: 30/15/3 56% FG, 56% TS

2001 Finals:
Kobe: 25/8/6 42% FG, 50% TS
Shaq: 33/16/5 57% FG, 58% TS

2002 Playoffs:
Kobe: 27/6/5 43% FG, 51% TS
Shaq: 29/13/3 53% FG, 57% TS

2002 Finals:
Kobe: 27/6/5 51% FG, 62% TS
Shaq: 36/12/3 60% FG, 64% TS

Elimination Games:

'00 WCQF, Game 5:
Kobe: 17 pts, 2 reb, 6 ast, 44% FG, 50% TS
Shaq: 32 pts, 18 reb, 4 ast, 63% FG, 59% TS

'00 WCF, Game 7:
Kobe: 25 pts, 11 reb, 7 ast, 47% FG, 52% TS
Shaq: 18 pts, 9 reb, 5 ast, 56% FG, 63% TS

'02 WCF, Game 6:
Kobe: 31 pts, 11 reb, 5 ast, 50% FG, 62% TS
Shaq: 41 pts, 17 reb, 2 blk, 56% FG, 63% TS

'02 WCF, Game 7:
Kobe: 30 pts, 10 reb, 7 ast, 39% FG, 49% TS
Shaq: 35 pts, 13 reb, 4 blk, 48% FG, 55% TS

[Jacks3]

Yeah, FT's count and threes are worth more.

And what in the world does Shaq have to do with anything?

Jesus the insecurity around here is ridiculous.

[NumberSix]

Yeah, and Shaq is a terrible FT shooter who doesn't take threes. So imagine the surprise when I found there wasn't a playoff run, finals or elimination game the Lakers had during the threepeat in which Kobe had a better TS% than him. Brought him closer to God, but arms still a little too short to box with.

Lakers 3-Peat

2000 Playoffs:
Kobe: 21/5/4 44% FG, 52% TS
Shaq: 31/15/3 57% FG, 56% TS

2000 Finals:
Kobe: 16/5/4 37% FG, 41% TS
Shaq: 38/17/3 61% FG, 58% TS

2001 Playoffs:
Kobe: 29/7/6 47% FG, 55% TS
Shaq: 30/15/3 56% FG, 56% TS

2001 Finals:
Kobe: 25/8/6 42% FG, 50% TS
Shaq: 33/16/5 57% FG, 58% TS

2002 Playoffs:
Kobe: 27/6/5 43% FG, 51% TS
Shaq: 29/13/3 53% FG, 57% TS

2002 Finals:
Kobe: 27/6/5 51% FG, 62% TS
Shaq: 36/12/3 60% FG, 64% TS

Elimination Games:

'00 WCQF, Game 5:
Kobe: 17 pts, 2 reb, 6 ast, 44% FG, 50% TS
Shaq: 32 pts, 18 reb, 4 ast, 63% FG, 59% TS

'00 WCF, Game 7:
Kobe: 25 pts, 11 reb, 7 ast, 47% FG, 52% TS
Shaq: 18 pts, 9 reb, 5 ast, 56% FG, 63% TS

'02 WCF, Game 6:
Kobe: 31 pts, 11 reb, 5 ast, 50% FG, 62% TS
Shaq: 41 pts, 17 reb, 2 blk, 56% FG, 63% TS

'02 WCF, Game 7:
Kobe: 30 pts, 10 reb, 7 ast, 39% FG, 49% TS
Shaq: 35 pts, 13 reb, 4 blk, 48% FG, 55% TS
^ Rape.

[DKLaker]

Top #5 - #7 is acceptable....anything below 7 and the person should be laughed at..


THIS


WTF are some people so stupid that they try to put Tim Duncan over Kobe......clear case of very low basketball I.Q.

[Deuce Bigalow]

^ Rape.
2009 - Lakers win Championship
Kobe: 30-5-6
Shaq: 0-0-0

2010 - Lakers win Championship
Kobe: 29-6-6
Shaq: 0-0-0

[Quickening]

2009 - Lakers win Championship
Kobe: 30-5-6
Shaq: 0-0-0

2010 - Lakers win Championship
Kobe: 29-6-6
Shaq: 0-0-0
And Kobe still has less fmvps as a laker :lol :roll: :applause:

[rmt]

THIS

WTF are some people so stupid that they try to put Tim Duncan over Kobe......clear case of very low basketball I.Q.

Your answer is this:


Probably his two-way impact, being one of the best defensive anchors of his or any generation, as well as an elite rebounder. Not too bad offensively either in terms of both volume and efficiency. He also had two dominant Finals performances in 1999 and 2003.

And he didn't have the benefit of playing 8 years with MDE. Check out Shaq's GAUDY stats. Kobe fans have no right to moan about Lebron teaming up with Wade and Bosh, after playing with MDE and now DH, Gasol, and Nash. Kobe should try winning multiple championships with little 'ole Parker and Manu especially when they weren't the players they are today.

[LakersReign]

Your answer is this:



And he didn't have the benefit of playing 8 years with MDE. Check out Shaq's GAUDY stats. Kobe fans have no right to moan about Lebron teaming up with Wade and Bosh, after playing with MDE and now DH, Gasol, and Nash. Kobe should try winning multiple championships with little 'ole Parker and Manu especially when they weren't the players they are today.

Just gotta love it how know nothing about basketball bandwagon Lebron fans aka Lebronytes, keep posting crap, desperately trying to continue propping up Lebron:facepalm

1) Shaq was NEVER the MDE, cuz he was way too lazy to put the work in to be that.

2) Kobe didn't "team up" with anybody. The Lakers brought him in from Charlotte, and got Shaq from Orlando in '96. Both of them were traded to the Lakers, so, trying to make it sound like Kobe was a free agent like Lebron, and CHOSE to go to LA, just makes you look that much more ret**ded. Furthermore, it took them til 2000, 4 YEARS LATER with Phil to win their first title. There's nothing even remotely similar between the Lakers getting Shaq/Kobe, and Lebron going to Miami with Wade/Bosh. Stop reaching:rolleyes:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Your answer is this:



And he didn't have the benefit of playing 8 years with MDE. Check out Shaq's GAUDY stats. Kobe fans have no right to moan about Lebron teaming up with Wade and Bosh, after playing with MDE and now DH, Gasol, and Nash. Kobe should try winning multiple championships with little 'ole Parker and Manu especially when they weren't the players they are today.
What about Kareem 10 seasons with Magic, the GOAT PG and better than Shaq?
What about his last 2 rings? 19/7/2 and 14/6/2 Playoff averages in '87 and '88.

Kobe won Back to Back Championships with Pau, and Fisher as his PG, and 6/4, 9/7 Bynum as his center.
Duncan had David Robinson along with the backcourt. Kobe doesn't need to do anything else to prove he's better than Duncan, he already did in his career.

[Heavincent]

And Kobe still has less fmvps as a laker :lol :roll: :applause:

Too bad FMVP's aren't nearly as important as people on ISH make them out to be.

Bird's 81 playoff run doesn't count since he didn't win FMVP. He was carried by Cedric Maxwell :lol :roll: :applause:

[Hands of Iron]

Yeah, FT's count and threes are worth more.

And what in the world does Shaq have to do with anything?

Jesus the insecurity around here is ridiculous.

Nothing, really. When you brought up TS% it reminded me of it as I actually expected Bryant to have higher percentages there. TBH, I never even felt compelled to compare them like that until I came here. Anybody that watched those teams knows the deal. Shaq also made more FTs during each run in addition to all of the hacking he drew to run the fouls up in the opposing team's frontlines and getting them into the penalty. Pretty valuable. Then find that in those elimination games, Kobe shot higher by or take 3%. Shaq hit 73% of his FTs in must-win games. Astonishing.


Just gotta love it how know nothing about basketball bandwagon Lebron fans aka Lebronytes, keep posting crap, desperately trying to continue propping up Lebron:facepalm

1) Shaq was NEVER the MDE, cuz he was way too lazy to put the work in to be that.

Maybe, maybe not. I think in the modern sense he may be. How many players could annually put up 27-30 ppg on 56+% from the field? At his peak, he may of been. How many players have put up 30/15/3 throughout the playoffs (15+ games)? Only Kareem Abdul-Jabbar once, Shaq did it in back-to-back runs and was the only to win a title while doing it. The league also had an average of 15 fewer possessions. Shaq's numbers are some of the most deflated ever (along with Tim, Kobe, Lebron). He was also one of the top 2-3 defensive centers in the NBA during this period, so impact was felt on both ends. Teams willingness to foul Shaq relentless could be taken as his not being a good FT shooter. What it also means is they'd rather foul out their frontlines, get themselves into the penalty and even if he's only shooting 50%, give up points on the board every time down the floor on defense. All of that beats the prospect of even attempting to stop him? Do you think the NBA scraping illegal defense after the 2001 season didn't have Shaq fully in mind? .. Then there's the Finals performances that only peak Jordan is seeing.

[WockaVodka]

TS% is not something that Kobe fans use, just about everyone uses it because it is the best measurement of scoring efficiency. That is not to say FG% or eFG% doesn't matter but TS% is the best one.

[aau]

dominant Finals performances in 1999.

boasting a lockout title vs ewing-less knick team

td and drob combined for 44/26/5 blocks

but they schit on kobe

.

can anyone name 1 player on knicks frontline

[aau]

And Kobe still has less fmvps as a laker :lol :roll: :applause:

just more rings

[aau]

What is it about KB that gives him the edge over Tim Duncan over their comparable careers?

rings , records and repeats

[LakersReign]

Maybe, maybe not. I think in the modern sense he may be. How many players could annually put up 27-30 ppg on 56+% from the field? At his peak, he may of been. How many players have put up 30/15/3 throughout the playoffs (15+ games)? Only Kareem Abdul-Jabbar once, Shaq did it in back-to-back runs and was the only to win a title while doing it. The league also had an average of 15 fewer possessions. Shaq's numbers are some of the most deflated ever (along with Tim, Kobe, Lebron). He was also one of the top 2-3 defensive centers in the NBA during this period, so impact was felt on both ends. Teams willingness to foul Shaq relentless could be taken as his not being a good FT shooter. What it also means is they'd rather foul out their frontlines, get themselves into the penalty and even if he's only shooting 50%, give up points on the board every time down the floor on defense. All of that beats the prospect of even attempting to stop him? Do you think the NBA scraping illegal defense after the 2001 season didn't have Shaq fully in mind? .. Then there's the Finals performances that only peak Jordan is seeing.

Don't get me wrong. Shaq was a beast, but he could've been the unanimous MDE if he had put the work in to get there. When he came to LA, he was way more interested in being a rap/movie star, than working on his game. Phil tried to get him help for bricking FT's, he said "No." Phil tried to get him to lose some weight, again, he said "No." He got hurt, and instead of immediately going to try to rehab the injury, he waited til the season started to do so. Again, he could've been MDE, but his attitude was the only thing that stopped him.

[RRR3]

Don't get me wrong. Shaq was a beast, but he could've been the unanimous MDE if he had put the work in to get there. When he came to LA, he was way more interested in being a rap/movie star, than working on his game. Phil tried to get him help for bricking FT's, he said "No." Phil tried to get him to lose some weight, again, he said "No." He got hurt, and instead of immediately going to try to rehab the injury, he waited til the season started to do so. Again, he could've been MDE, but his attitude was the only thing that stopped him.
Stop making up lies about Shaq because you're jealous Kobe the "black garter snake" Bryant was his sidekick :lol

[Hands of Iron]

boasting a lockout title vs ewing-less knick team

td and drob combined for 44/26/5 blocks

but they schit on kobe

.

can anyone name 1 player on knicks frontline

Who's boasting? Was merely an overview of the case somebody may present for Tim Duncan.


Don't get me wrong. Shaq was a beast, but he could've been the unanimous MDE if he had put the work in to get there. When he came to LA, he was way more interested in being a rap/movie star, than working on his game. Phil tried to get him help for bricking FT's, he said "No." Phil tried to get him to lose some weight, again, he said "No." He got hurt, and instead of immediately going to try to rehab the injury, he waited til the season started to do so. Again, he could've been MDE, but his attitude was the only thing that stopped him.

Yeah, but none of that stopped anything you quoted from happening. I don't think Shaq fulfilled his potential in case you're wondering, but I can't judge him on what he didn't do, only what he did. And it was significant despite all of the extras and what ifs. MDE is just a cool little term he carved out for himself due to his dominance, how teams tried to deal with him, the rule changes that were heavily influenced by him. I've never taken it too literal and I don't put players in placement order but I will say that SLAM Mag's recent 500 list in 2011... I wouldnt argue where they saw fit to put him. Probably cause I saw him, vividly remember him. The player he was under Phil goes way beyond numbers. It was a different Shaq. And BIG UPS to Kobe Bryant for giving him that opportunity to show how great he was and could be.

[Segatti]

And Kobe still has less fmvps as a laker :lol :roll: :applause:

Kobe was better than Shaq in two WCFs when they played together. It's a shame you (Lebron stans) were too young to see.

[longhornfan1234]

Top 10. I have him at 8. If he wins another championship as the man, he will move up to 6, surpassing Shaq and Bird.

[longhornfan1234]

Kobe was better than Shaq in two WCFs when they played together. It's a shame you (Lebron stans) were too young to see.





:roll: :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe was better in the '01 WCF, so 1 WCF not 2.

[rmt]

Just gotta love it how know nothing about basketball bandwagon Lebron fans aka Lebronytes, keep posting crap, desperately trying to continue propping up Lebron:facepalm

1) Shaq was NEVER the MDE, cuz he was way too lazy to put the work in to be that.

2) Kobe didn't "team up" with anybody. The Lakers brought him in from Charlotte, and got Shaq from Orlando in '96. Both of them were traded to the Lakers, so, trying to make it sound like Kobe was a free agent like Lebron, and CHOSE to go to LA, just makes you look that much more ret**ded. Furthermore, it took them til 2000, 4 YEARS LATER with Phil to win their first title. There's nothing even remotely similar between the Lakers getting Shaq/Kobe, and Lebron going to Miami with Wade/Bosh. Stop reaching:rolleyes:

I'm not a Lebron fan - I'm a Spurs fan. You seem to be stuck on the word "teaming" up. Maybe the more appropriate words would be "winning with" but I thought that was understood seeing as this thread is about Kobe's all-time rank and as such, who his team mates were is important. And don't pretend that Shaq at his very peak wasn't the primary focus of all teams playing LAL - not Kobe and considering how dominant Shaq was in his laziness, I shudder to think what he'd be like if he really put all his effort into it.

[Hands of Iron]

Kobe was better than Shaq in two WCFs when they played together. It's a shame you (Lebron stans) were too young to see.

Which two? I could give him 2001 which was one of his all-time signature playoff series though it wasn't as if Shaq's 27/13/3 in that series up against the twin towers was hurting anything at all. Shaq in 2000 and 2002, with it being less close than it was the year in-between them. Shaq did not play well at all in the 2002 semi-finals, however. Probably his only truly sub-par series out of 12 through the three-peat but what the hell, even Jordan shot 40% in the 1993 ECF before torching the Suns for 41 ppg on 51% the very next series.

[LakersReign]

Who's boasting? Was merely an overview of the case somebody may present for Tim Duncan.



Yeah, but none of that stopped anything you quoted from happening. I don't think Shaq fulfilled his potential in case you're wondering, but I can't judge him on what he didn't do, only what he did. And it was significant despite all of the extras and what ifs. MDE is just a cool little term he carved out for himself due to his dominance, how teams tried to deal with him, the rule changes that were heavily influenced by him. I've never taken it too literal and I don't put players in placement order but I will say that SLAM Mag's recent 500 list in 2011... I wouldnt argue where they saw fit to put him. Probably cause I saw him, vividly remember him. The player he was under Phil goes way beyond numbers. It was a different Shaq. And BIG UPS to Kobe Bryant for giving him that opportunity to show how great he was and could be.

We both seem to have different interpretations of what MDE really is. You have a right to your opinion, but I disagree. If Shaq was really the MDE, IMO, then he wouldn't have gone out the way he did.

[fpliii]

not to pimp my own thread, but this info might be relevant to the discussion:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276043

both guys are among my favorite players, so there's no bias in compiling the data

there may be typos since I went through it pretty quickly, but from a cursory glance it's fairly accurate

I'm going to sleep shortly, but if anybody wants breakdowns for specific series, crunch time (i.e. under 5 minutes left, score within 5, etc.) or whatever else, let me know and I'll get to it tomorrow

[Kews1]

The grammar errors in the title are reallying infuriating me.:rant

[Overdrive]

Don't get me wrong. Shaq was a beast, but he could've been the unanimous MDE if he had put the work in to get there. When he came to LA, he was way more interested in being a rap/movie star, than working on his game. Phil tried to get him help for bricking FT's, he said "No." Phil tried to get him to lose some weight, again, he said "No." He got hurt, and instead of immediately going to try to rehab the injury, he waited til the season started to do so. Again, he could've been MDE, but his attitude was the only thing that stopped him.

PJ made Shaq take meditation lessons to have better focus on FT shooting. There's been an article in an german basketball magazine about the way Jackson viewed Shaq's FT problems and it said that he believed it was mostly mental and he's trying to cure it - and Shaq is cooperating. I'll try to find it, scan it put it up and type it out, so you can translate it.

I once asked you why you hate Shaq when he was the bigger reason for the Lakers to win in 2000-2002, since you state you're a Lakers first fan and seem very ungrateful, and you answered you know that, but you just want to troll the trolls. Obviously you're a very agenda driven Kobestan. But I don't even think you're a Kobe stan for Kobe himself. You would've never liked him if he stayed in Charlotte and struggled to make the 8th place on a bad team. You just bandwagoned the next superstar of the league and it happened to be Kobe.

No, I'm no Lebronyte.

[Hands of Iron]

PJ made Shaq take meditation lessons to have better focus on FT shooting. There's been an article in an german basketball magazine about the way Jackson viewed Shaq's FT problems and it said that he believed it was mostly mental and he's trying to cure it - and Shaq is cooperating. I'll try to find it, scan it put it up and type it out, so you can translate it.

I once asked you why you hate Shaq when he was the bigger reason for the Lakers to win in 2000-2002, since you state you're a Lakers first fan and seem very ungrateful, and you answered you know that, but you just want to troll the trolls. Obviously you're a very agenda driven Kobestan. But I don't even think you're a Kobe stan for Kobe himself. You would've never liked him if he stayed in Charlotte and struggled to make the 8th place on a bad team. You just bandwagoned the next superstar of the league and it happened to be Kobe.

No, I'm no Lebronyte.

Some fans tend to inject themselves emotionally into the rift that occurred between Kobe and Shaq and defend Bryant as if he were a passionate lover with equal vitriol aimed at Shaq. They're two grown (very wealthy) men who probably think far less about it than anybody else on ISH. What are the other reasons: Shaq was 'out of shape'? He gave them 8 dominant seasons and some of the greatest playoffs and finals performances and runs in history. He yelled at Jerry Buss? :oldlol: And Kobe demanded a trade twice in the same summer after the 3rd season without Shaq.

[Odinn]

What about Kareem 10 seasons with Magic, the GOAT PG and better than Shaq?
What about his last 2 rings? 19/7/2 and 14/6/2 Playoff averages in '87 and '88.


If 1985-86 season would be Kareem's last season;

His career numbers;
35108 points (all-time scoring leader until 2002-12-18)
16105 rebounds
5248 asissts
1025 steals
2915 blocks
2087 turnovers

26.4 ppg
12.1 rpg
4.0 apg
1.0 spg
2.9 bpg
3.0 tpg

0.562 fg%
0.720 ft%


His playoff numbers;
4912 points
2168 rebounds
676 asissts
161 steals
393 blocks
339 turnovers

27.3 ppg
12.0 rpg
3.8 apg
1.2 spg
2.8 bpg
3.0 tpg

0.541 fg%
0.732 ft%


His accomplishments;
6x MVP (6.203 total MVP share, only 2 times left out top5)
2x FMVP
4x NBA Champion (in 1971 and 1980, clear-cut best player on a championship team and "arguably" best player in 1982 and 1985)
16x All-Star
10x All-NBA First Team
5x All-NBA Second Team
5x All-NBA Defensive First Team
6x All-NBA Defensive Second Team
NBA Rookie of The Year
3x NCAA Champion
3x NCAA MOP
Naismith College Player of the Year



In conclusion; his last 3 years only lowered his career averages. He still would have a legitimate case for GOAT if he was retired after 1985-86 season.



Also DRob wasn't better than 2008-10 Gasol in 2003. And I can play your Fisher game too. In his other 2 title-runs Spurs' centers were N. Mohammed(2005) and Fabricio Oberto(2007). At least Fisher was able to come up big.

Help from Duncan's teammates in 2005 and 2007 playoffs
Help from Kobe's teammates in 2009 and 2010 playoffs
It seems pretty equal to me. But Duncan proved he can win with less help(2003). You, as a Kobe-stan, still can claim Duncan had more help in 2005 and 2007. But 2003 playoffs always will be mentioned and always will make you wrong. So claiming Kobe winning with less help compared to Duncan is just a joke.

[LakersReign]

PJ made Shaq take meditation lessons to have better focus on FT shooting. There's been an article in an german basketball magazine about the way Jackson viewed Shaq's FT problems and it said that he believed it was mostly mental and he's trying to cure it - and Shaq is cooperating. I'll try to find it, scan it put it up and type it out, so you can translate it.

I once asked you why you hate Shaq when he was the bigger reason for the Lakers to win in 2000-2002, since you state you're a Lakers first fan and seem very ungrateful, and you answered you know that, but you just want to troll the trolls. Obviously you're a very agenda driven Kobestan. But I don't even think you're a Kobe stan for Kobe himself. You would've never liked him if he stayed in Charlotte and struggled to make the 8th place on a bad team. You just bandwagoned the next superstar of the league and it happened to be Kobe.

No, I'm no Lebronyte.

WOW.....so...according to you(overdrive), bandwagoners jump on the bandwagon when that team is winning. But STAY on the bandwagon when that team is losing, like the Lakers have been doing for the last 2 years? You do realize that CONTRADICTS the very definition of what a bandwagoner really is....right?:hammerhead:

Dumba**(overdrive):facepalm

[KG215]

Since kennethgriffin revealed to us all that Kobe is one of the 10 best defensive players of all-time, I'm seriously considering moving him up to #5 or #6 on my all-time list.

[D.J.]

1)Jordan
2)Wilt
3)Kareem
4)Bird
5)Magic
6)Russell
7)Hakeem
8)Shaq
9)Duncan
10)West/Kobe


IMO, Kobe is fighting for #10 and no worse than #11.

[Hands of Iron]

Since kennethgriffin revealed to us all that Kobe is one of the 10 best defensive players of all-time, I'm seriously considering moving him up to #5 or #6 on my all-time list.

Based on what, defensive team selections? I agree. Kobe > Olajuwon defensively.

:oldlol: :rolleyes:

[KG215]

Based on what, defensive team selections? I agree. Kobe > Olajuwon defensively.

:oldlol: :rolleyes:

Yes, he said it in the "Guys who were the best defensive and best offensive player on a championship team" thread. And the only thing he was using to back-up his claim was All-Defense teams.

[LakersReign]

Some fans tend to inject themselves emotionally into the rift that occurred between Kobe and Shaq and defend Bryant as if he were a passionate lover with equal vitriol aimed at Shaq. They're two grown (very wealthy) men who probably think far less about it than anybody else on ISH. What are the other reasons: Shaq was 'out of shape'? He gave them 8 dominant seasons and some of the greatest playoffs and finals performances and runs in history. He yelled at Jerry Buss? :oldlol: And Kobe demanded a trade twice in the same summer after the 3rd season without Shaq.

And Phil talked mad sh*t about the entire Lakers organization in his book, so what's your point there? The difference is both Phil and Kobe put aside their differences, stopped the bickering and decided to put winning first. Shaq was the one who couldn't let it go. He was the one who kept talking smack, sticking his face in front of every available camera, and mic to talk sh*t about the Lakers. How many interviews did Kobe do dissing Shaq? There's a reason why he couldn't go back to them to finish out his career, and ended up in a Celtics uni. That had nothing to do with Kobe. Oh, and by the way, Shaq asked to be traded to Miami, and to this day, he and Wade don't speak to each other. Coincidence, or recurring pattern?

[Hands of Iron]

I'm pretty sure he's let it go, as has Buss since he called dude to let him know #34 was going up where it belongs. Titles override bickering and words, and Shaq won them with the Lakers in dominant, historic fashion. Everything else is bullshit.

[NumberSix]

And Phil talked mad sh*t about the entire Lakers organization in his book, so what's your point there? The difference is both Phil and Kobe put aside their differences, stopped the bickering and decided to put winning first. Shaq was the one who couldn't let it go. He was the one who kept talking smack, sticking his face in front of every available camera, and mic to talk sh*t about the Lakers. How many interviews did Kobe do dissing Shaq? There's a reason why he couldn't go back to them to finish out his career, and ended up in a Celtics uni. That had nothing to do with Kobe. Oh, and by the way, Shaq asked to be traded to Miami, and to this day, he and Wade don't speak to each other. Coincidence, or recurring pattern?
Bladers

[LakersReign]

I'm pretty sure he's let it go, as has Buss since he called dude to let him know #34 was going up where it belongs. Titles override bickering and words, and Shaq won them with the Lakers in dominant, historic fashion. Everything else is bullshit.

He's let it go now, cuz he had no choice. His whole reason for asking to be traded to begin with, was to spite the Lakers. He felt they couldn't win a title without him, and they didn't for a while. But once they won TWICE, it was either let it go, or be perceived as bitter. Once again, I will agree that he was in fact dominant. But his attitude was the main reason why his career ended(in a Celtics uni), the way it did. Kareem went out way better that Shaq did.

[BlueandGold]

I have him at #7:

1- Kareem
2- MJ
3- Russel
4- Magic
5- Wilt
6- Bird
7- Kobe
8- Shaq
9- Duncan
10- Hakeem
That's exactly where I have Kobe, #7

[Overdrive]

WOW.....so...according to you(overdrive), bandwagoners jump on the bandwagon when that team is winning. But STAY on the bandwagon when that team is losing, like the Lakers have been doing for the last 2 years? You do realize that CONTRADICTS the very definition of what a bandwagoner really is....right?:hammerhead:

Dumba**(overdrive):facepalm

You don't have to put my screennanme in parentheses, I understand that those pronouns are directed at me, especially when you quote me.

The Lakers lost on a stage where only 8 of 30 teams where left, twice. I call you a bandwagoner, because you hate and disrespect players that brought your franchise of choice titles. You're just a Kobe stan.

[Jacks3]

Shaq stans paranoid as hell. :oldlol:

[Overdrive]

Call me whatever you want to call me, cuz that's exactly what you're(overdrive) going to do anyway, so I couldn't care less. You(overdrive) already tried calling me a supposed bandwagoner and completely embarrassed yourself, so please continue making yourself look even more stupid:lol

How did I embarrass myself? This is an anonymous internet forum. I could post a fotograph of my dick and wouldn't embarrass myself.



Shaq stans paranoid as hell. :oldlol:


I'm a Shaqfan, but I understand that he had severe flaws, some of you Kobeguys don't seem to get that Kobe has/had alot of flaws, too.

I just hate it that alot of socalled Lakersfans here are very ungrateful, when it comes to Shaq.

[Overdrive]

Riiiiiiiiight:rolleyes:

So....you're(overdrive) backpedlling as fast as you can off the bandwagoner comment simply cuz you have nothing better to do then....huh?:hammerhead:

Where did I backpedal? You're a bandwagoner and Kobeonlystan, because you state you love the Lakers, but you discredit the cornerstone of those '00-'02 titles.

[LakersReign]

Where did I backpedal? You're a bandwagoner and Kobeonlystan, because you state you love the Lakers, but you discredit the cornerstone of those '00-'02 titles.

So...just to be clear: according to you(overdrive) a bandwagon fan jumps on the Lakers bandwagon when they're winning. But stays a Laker fan even after they're losing, like they've been doing for the last 2 years? Which is a DIRECT contradiction to what bandwagon fan means to normal people:hammerhead:

You(overdrive) OBVIOUSLY clueless as to what a bandwagon fan really is. So, please continue to further embarrass yourself saying ret**ded sh*t like that:roll:

[Overdrive]

I answered that already. You should read my posts before replying.

[LakersReign]

Too scared to quote my post cuz he(overdrive) FINALLY realized just how ret**ded he(overdrive) INSISTED on making himself look. "Buh....buh....buh....buh....buh....buh....I'm(over drive) not embarrassed.":roll:

[Overdrive]

Scared, embarrassed? Those are strong emotions for an internet forum. I already told you that the Lakers where an Top 8 NBA for those last two years. There are 29 losers in the NBA every year. So don't switching to the Heat doesn't make you less of a bandwagoner, you still chose to like the most prestigious and successful franchise in the NBA, with the best chance to win most of the years.

Don't get so defensive, if you're so smart and so right in anything you do.

[Overdrive]

I'm not mad, I'm amused. Talking to you reminds me of this.

http://gifs.gifbin.com/3sw420787yu4.gif

[LakersReign]

Oh....I get it now. You(overdrive) bustin' out, talking bout the Heat for NO REAL REASON out of nowhere, is your(overdrive) Tourrette's tic. Looks like you(overdrive) being mad as **** was the thing that triggered it. So, now it's obvious why you're(overdrive) way too scared to quote my last post:lol

[Overdrive]

You're the the one posting incoherent rants here. I brought up the Heat, because they're the only team that didn't lose last year. Check out your bandwagoning criterea and get the relation.

Would you mind giving me a summary of what I wrote in this thread?
I think you're uncapable of understanding what I'm trying to get across.

[ThunderStruk022]

Oh....I get it now. You(overdrive) bustin' out, talking bout the Heat for NO REAL REASON out of nowhere, is your(overdrive) Tourrette's tic. Looks like you(overdrive) being mad as **** was the thing that triggered it:lol

You(LakersReign)...are one strange person.

After reading through your(LakersReign) posts over the last few pages....I honestly have NO F*CKING clue what the hell you're(LakersReign) talking about.

[LakersReign]

You're the the one posting incoherent rants here. I brought up the Heat, because they're the only team that didn't lose last year. Check out your bandwagoning criterea and get the relation.

Would you mind giving me a summary of what I wrote in this thread?
I think you're uncapable of understanding what I'm trying to get across.

An "incoherent rant" would be you(overdrive) being mad as **** posting something like this, which had nothing to do with anything:lol

Scared, embarrassed? Those are strong emotions for an internet forum. I already told you that the Lakers where an Top 8 NBA for those last two years. There are 29 losers in the NBA every year. So don't switching to the Heat doesn't make you less of a bandwagoner, you still chose to like the most prestigious and successful franchise in the NBA, with the best chance to win most of the years.

Don't get so defensive, if you're so smart and so right in anything you do.

AND... I'm not posting anything for you(overdrive). If you're(overdrive) way too stupid to learn how to navigate a website, to go look for what you posted. Then, that's not my fault or my problem, so good luck with all that:sleeping

[Overdrive]

I don't get mad over an internet forum. That's childish I'm already to old for that.

In no post I showed any aggression, I didn't cuss, I even tried to relate to your posts, which I asked you of doing, but you won't do it, so I'll just stop interacting with you.

[RRR3]

Wow reigny is a SUCH a REAL fan, he stuck by the Lakers of 2 years of them ONLY making it to the 2nd round (and they legit could have made the WCF this past year if "Gawdbe" didn't choke).:facepalm

[LakersReign]

Moron(overdrive) please:rolleyes:

If you're(overdrive) way too stupid to remember what you posted, and also way too stupid to know how to find it, then that's proof positive of a few things. 1) you're(overdrive) CLEARLY an idiot, and therefore, 2) NOTHING you've(overdrive) posted should be taken seriously. I really would'nt have admitted all that if I were you(overdrive):facepalm



AND.....in the post above me......my(LR) b***h(rrr3) comes runnin'.....AS ALWAYS....BOW BEFORE YOUR(rrr3) MASTER(LR)....B***H(rrr3)!!!!:roll:

[RRR3]

Moron(overdrive) please:rolleyes:

If you're(overdrive) way too stupid to remember what you posted, and also way too stupid to know how to find it, then that's proof positive of a few things. 1) you're(overdrive) CLEARLY an idiot, and therefore, 2) NOTHING you've(overdrive) posted should be taken seriously. I really would'nt have admitted all that if I were you(overdrive):facepalm



AND.....in the post above me......my(LR) b***h(rrr3) comes runnin'.....AS ALWAYS....BOW BEFORE YOUR(rrr3) MASTER(LR)....B***H(rrr3)!!!!:roll:
I would never bow to the dumbest organism in the history of the universe. Sorry reigny, I have dignity unlike you.

[LakersReign]

I would never bow to the dumbest organism in the history of the universe. Sorry reigny, I have dignity unlike you.

:lol @this ret**d(rrr3) TRYING to call other people dumb(rrr3):roll:

And if you(rrr3) really had any dignity or even knew what the word actually meant, you(rrr3) would've stopped totally embarrassing yourself 8 months ago.:rolleyes:

Yeah....I'm supposedly dumb simply cuz you(rrr3) CAN'T pressure me into agreeing with your pathetic lies.....huh? Pure dumba**(rrr3):facepalm

[RRR3]

Struck a nerve(rrr3)on that last post, and now he's(rrr3) mad as **** over my supposedly unintentionally funny posts:roll:
The truth stings like a little bitch...doesn't it? :lol Notice how he (lakersreign) got mollywopped so bad all he can do is pout like a whinin' little bitch:lol

[LakersReign]

AND.....there goes my(LR) b***h(rrr3), repeating like a pathetic parrot(rrr3)....ON COMMAND. Then tries to lie and say he(rrr3) supposedly has dignity:roll:


*REPEAT*

[RRR3]

AND.....there goes my(LR) b***h(rrr3), repeating like a pathetic parrot(rrr3)....ON COMMAND. Then tries to lie and say he(rrr3) supposedly has dignity:roll:
(yawn):sleeping

[LakersReign]

TRANSLATION: I'm(rrr3) FINALLY admitting to A-L-L of ISH, that I've(rrr3) been completley full of sh*t for the last 8 months:applause: :bowdown: :applause: :bowdown:


*REPEAT*

[KingBeasley08]

TRANSLATION: I'm(rrr3) FINALLY admitting to A-L-L of ISH, that I've(rrr3) been completley full of sh*t for the last 8 months:applause: :bowdown: :applause: :bowdown:


*REPEAT*
rob is so mad right now :roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

rob is so mad right now

LakersRegin's real name is rob ?

[RRR3]

LakersRegin's real name is rob ?
Yep. Rob Flemming

[Legends66NBA7]

Yep. Rob Flemming

I'm quiet disturbed about this...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yep. Rob Flemming
http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/cc26652f34248cf5599d3b672b23063e.jpg

[LakersReign]

Yep. Rob Flemming

Thanks for YET AGAIN, admitting that you're(rrr3) an OBVIOUS lyin' sack of sh*t(rrr3). Big surprise:rolleyes:

Your boyfriend left4dead posts this: http://www.russbrown.com/motorcycle-lawyer-blog/3656/iraq-veteran-plans-to-ride-again-after-hit-and-run-motorcycle-accident.html

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8056/41bd23290e1f4fe5970a053.png

....forgetting that he(left4dead) claims(LIES) that my name is supposedly "rob f-l-e-m-m-i-n-g....NOT....f-l-e-m-i-n-g. So....the idiot says (left4dead) you HAVE TO be a veteran to comment on a story about a veteran:facepalm

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/652/e6614866db244b44b3ac716.png

Furthermore there's NOTHING in that article that says anything about "rob flemming" supposedly being in Iraq and supposedly being captured and raped by Muslim terrorists. OOPS!!!! So....what's your(rrr3) excuse now dumba**(rrr3)?:roll:



(Now watch carefully as he(rrr3) either 1) doesn't bother to respond and tries to bump this thread down so that nobody can see the truth, 2) respond without bother to quote this post, cuz he's(rrr3), afraid other posters on ISH will see that he's(rrr3) lying, or 3) keep posting his(rrr3) lies HOPING that people dumber than he is believe him, when it's CLEAR he's(rrr3) lying)

[RRR3]

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/cc26652f34248cf5599d3b672b23063e.jpg
post a pic of yourself then ******

[RRR3]

Thanks for YET AGAIN, admitting that you're(rrr3) an OBVIOUS lyin' sack of sh*t(rrr3). Big surprise:rolleyes:

Your boyfriend left4dead posts this: http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8056/41bd23290e1f4fe5970a053.png

....forgetting that he(left4dead) claims(LIES) that my name is supposedly "rob f-l-e-m-m-i-n-g....NOT....f-l-e-m-i-n-g. So....the idiot says (left4dead) you HAVE TO be a veteran to comment on a story about a veteran:facepalm

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/652/e6614866db244b44b3ac716.png

Furthermore there's NOTHING in that article that says anything about "rob flemming" supposedly being in Iraq and supposedly being captured and raped by Muslim terrorists. OOPS!!!! So....what's your(rrr3) excuse now dumba**(rrr3)?:roll:



(Now watch carefully as he(rrr3) either 1) doesn't bother to respond and tries to bump this thread down so that nobody can see the truth, 2) respond without bother to quote this post, cuz he's(rrr3), afraid other posters on ISH will see that he's(rrr3) lying, or 3) keep posting his(rrr3) lies HOPING that people dumber than he is believe him, when it's CLEAR he's(rrr3) lying)
I never said you were in iraq or raped by terrorists, that was left4dead. Try to keep up now, rob

[Deuce Bigalow]

post a pic of yourself then ******
that's a good reaction pic tbh. It's like "woah"

[LakersReign]

So....you're(rrr3) ADMITTING that you(rrr3) made this all up then....huh? Dumba**(rrr3):oldlol:

I don't have to prove a ******* thing, since for the last 8 months, I've already proven that you're(rrr3) completely full of sh*t. You(rrr3) CAN'T prove otherwise, so good luck with all that:sleeping

[DFish]

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/cc26652f34248cf5599d3b672b23063e.jpg

Who's the Italian lesbian and how young is she?

[KingBeasley08]

So....you're(rrr3) ADMITTING that you(rrr3) made this all up then....huh? Dumba**(rrr3):oldlol:

I don't have to prove a ******* thing, since for the last 8 months, I've already proven that you're(rrr3) completely full of sh*t. You(rrr3) CAN'T prove otherwise, so good luck with all that:sleeping
chill out rob