Spurs Hire GM Who Destroyed the Knicks

[NewYorkNoPicks]

While Isiah gets a lot of heat for the Knicks struggles during the 2000s, in reality the man was made the captain of a sinking ship....The man responsible for steering the Titanic that was the Knicks into that iceberg was named Scott Layden.

Some of Laydens famous moves:

Howard Eisley 6 years $40 million

Shandon Anderson 5 years $40 million

Clarence Weatherspoon $8 million a year (cant remember the num of yrs)

Allan Houston 5 years $100 Million

Patrick Ewing for Glen Rice and Luc Longley

Marcus Camby and Nene for Antonio McDyess

Selected Mike Sweetney over Amare Stoudemire

Latrell Sprewell for Keith Van Horn

*years of contracts are off the top of my head but are close

[Trentknicks]

Not sure if Spurs are serious, they are meant to be the best run organization around the league? :confusedshrug:

[imdaman99]

fckin layden... set the knicks like 10 yrs back... and isiah finished them off :mad:

[NewYorkNoPicks]

fckin layden... set the knicks like 10 yrs back... and isiah finished them off :mad:

Give me Isiah every day of the week over Layden. Atleast Isiah made some moves that brought in proven talent at times. I was loving that trevor Ariza for Steve Francis deal at the time. Nobody knew Stevie would fall victim to drugs and fall off the map in his 6th season

[knickballer]

Give me Isiah every day of the week over Layden. Atleast Isiah made some moves that brought in proven talent at times. I was loving that trevor Ariza for Steve Francis deal at the time. Nobody knew Stevie would fall victim to drugs and fall off the map in his 6th season

:oldlol: :oldlol:

You got to be kidding me. That was a horrible trade at the time and everyone knew it. Horrible contract, we gave up picks and a young player and Francis was the worst possible fit to have on the roster at the time. A backcourt of Marbury and Francis is hilarious :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

Not sure if Spurs are serious, they are meant to be the best run organization around the league? :confusedshrug:

The Spurs modeled themselves after the Jazz where Layden was a huge part so it makes plenty of sense.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

:oldlol: :oldlol:

You got to be kidding me. That was a horrible trade at the time and everyone knew it. Horrible contract, we gave up picks and a young player and Francis was the worst possible fit to have on the roster at the time. A backcourt of Marbury and Francis is hilarious :oldlol:

Francis had come off a 22ppg 6apg season in Orlando and had put upthose numbers his whole career. He was Russell Westbrook before Russell Westbrook. Yea obviously him and Marbury is a strange mix but from a talent standpoint we won that trade by a mile....on paper. Had Francis not fallen into drug addiction following the deal we could have shipped him or Marbury out for a capable sidekick that fit our team better. Its all about acquiring talent. You get the best player available and worry about how it fits later.

[Xiao Yao You]

You get the best player available and worry about how it fits later.

That's why the Knicks under Layden and Isiah failed and why they will continue to fail. Marbury and Brown was horrible. Adding Francis was ridiculous!

[magictricked]

While Isiah gets a lot of heat for the Knicks struggles during the 2000s, in reality the man was made the captain of a sinking ship....The man responsible for steering the Titanic that was the Knicks into that iceberg was named Scott Layden.

And this effects his ability to run the Spurs scouting department how?

[NewYorkNoPicks]

And this effects his ability to run the Spurs scouting department how?

Mike Sweetney over Amare Stoudemire

Frederic Weiss ( the guy Vince Carter literally junped over during the olympics) over Ron Artest

...great scout...

[magictricked]

Mike Sweetney over Amare Stoudemire

Frederic Weiss ( the guy Vince Carter literally junped over during the olympics) over Ron Artest

...great scout...Spurs think differently. You know the Spurs, probably the best run front office in the league.

Layden was great in Utah, then he goes to the worst run team in the league and mysteriously sucked now the team with an A+ record wants him. What doesn't fit in this scenario?

You're saying he was lucky or something in Utah, then his true abilities came to surface in NY now the Spurs who strike gold while they sleep makes a monstrous mistake in hiring him. You probably need to rethink some things, I'm going to stick with the Spurs know what they are doing and you don't have a clue

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Spurs think differently. You know the Spurs, probably the best run front office in the league.

Layden was great in Utah, then he goes to the worst run team in the league and mysteriously sucked now the team with an A+ record wants him. What doesn't fit in this scenario?

You're saying he was lucky or something in Utah, then his true abilities came to surface in NY now the Spurs who strike gold while they sleep makes a monstrous mistake in hiring him. You probably need to rethink some things, I'm going to stick with the Spurs know what they are doing and you don't have a clue

Knicks one of the worst run teams? At that time? Obviously you didnt watch basketball prior to 2001. The poor management was pnly the past decade.

Knicks 1987 to 2001 = 14 straight playoff appearances

Knick roster prior to Layden went to Finals the year before and had a team of : Patrick Ewing, Marcus Camby, Larry Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Allan Houston = a top 3 team in the league at that time, maybe top 5 at worst.

The poor management BEGAN with Layden

[magictricked]

The poor management BEGAN with Layden Poor management began with Dolan in 98.
Stop trying to deflect the problem. Knicks have steadily declined under the current head management team led by Dolan, it can't be they've hired that many bad GMs in a row, funny how so many of these guys do great other places then suck when they get to NY

[BlackVVaves]

First off...


Francis had come off a 22ppg 6apg season in Orlando and had put upthose numbers his whole career. He was Russell Westbrook before Russell Westbrook. Yea obviously him and Marbury is a strange mix but from a talent standpoint we won that trade by a mile....on paper. Had Francis not fallen into drug addiction following the deal we could have shipped him or Marbury out for a capable sidekick that fit our team better. Its all about acquiring talent. You get the best player available and worry about how it fits later.

Westbrook, in only his fourth year, is a better player than Steve Francis ever, ever was. Ever. Like no, ever. So no, he wasn't Westbrook before Westbrook. More like, he was Westbrook before Westbrook actually knew how to play in the NBA.

Second...


Knick roster prior to Layden went to Finals the year before and had a team of : Patrick Ewing, Marcus Camby, Larry Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Allan Houston = a top 3 team in the league at that time, maybe top 5 at worst.

Way to be a homer, history revisionist. Name the top 10 teams in the league in that 1998-1999 lockout season.

[El Kabong]

He's just going to be assistant GM, not a huge thing to get worked up over. Spurs had Danny Ferry there previously, which he seemed to do well in and then he sucked as a GM on his own.

Kind of funny since the Jazz hired the Spurs previous assistant GM Dennis Lindsey as their new GM and now the Spurs take one of the Jazz assistant coaches to replace him.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Poor management began with Dolan in 98.
Stop trying to deflect the problem. Knicks have steadily declined under the current head management team led by Dolan, it can't be they've hired that many bad GMs in a row, funny how so many of these guys do great other places then suck when they get to NY

1998 ny trades John Starks for Latrell Sprewell

Ny trades an aging Oakley for 22 year old Marcus Camby, both moves by Ernie Grunfeld

So no... It didnt begin in 98, the bad management started in 2000 when Layden came in.

[Horatio33]

Francis had come off a 22ppg 6apg season in Orlando and had put upthose numbers his whole career. He was Russell Westbrook before Russell Westbrook. Yea obviously him and Marbury is a strange mix but from a talent standpoint we won that trade by a mile....on paper. Had Francis not fallen into drug addiction following the deal we could have shipped him or Marbury out for a capable sidekick that fit our team better. Its all about acquiring talent. You get the best player available and worry about how it fits later.

Are you Isiah? That is what you DON'T do! Look at all the successful teams, they never do what you said. Lakers, Bulls, Spurs, Celtics never just trade for a player because he is more talented than the one being given away and just hope they fit in. That's why the Knicks are trying to shoehorn Amare and Carmelo into the same team STILL even though they are both all stoppers.

[knickballer]

Francis had come off a 22ppg 6apg season in Orlando and had put upthose numbers his whole career. He was Russell Westbrook before Russell Westbrook. Yea obviously him and Marbury is a strange mix but from a talent standpoint we won that trade by a mile....on paper. Had Francis not fallen into drug addiction following the deal we could have shipped him or Marbury out for a capable sidekick that fit our team better. Its all about acquiring talent. You get the best player available and worry about how it fits later.

Francis was never as good as Westbrook and he was a pure scoring tweener guard. BTW, he might have scored 22ppg but that was in his prime and on a poor Orlando squad, scoring 22ppg is not really a accomplishment on a poor squad and the year he got traded he was actually averaging 16ppg. Francis was a poor defender, wasn't a good ball handler, not a ball distributor or a PG, he was just a good scoring guard with many flaws. Bottom line is we got a grossly overpayed chucking tweener guard(which is a dime in a dozen) on the down side of his career.. How will fitting Francis next to Marbury, Crawford, Q-rich, Curry, Rose, etc, be a good fit?

[swi7ch]

:facepalm

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Are you Isiah? That is what you DON'T do! Look at all the successful teams, they never do what you said. Lakers, Bulls, Spurs, Celtics never just trade for a player because he is more talented than the one being given away and just hope they fit in. That's why the Knicks are trying to shoehorn Amare and Carmelo into the same team STILL even though they are both all stoppers.

First off THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT EVERY SUCCESSFUL TEAM HAS EVER DONE IN THE DRAFT. Failures like Portland say hi! Bowie over Jordan? FAIL! You take BPA! Why did the Celtics take Len Bias when they had Bird?!?!? Theyre smart! Obviously on a team like the Spurs, or group who is winning at the moment you worry about fit more in a trade but when your second best player is Tim Thomas your only concern is acquiring ASSETS. Francis clashed with his coach in Orlando and thats what brought about his poor season. He had been a consistent 20ppg 5apg guy his entire career prior and he was only 27 when we acquired him! Like i said before you get him and decide between him and Marbury whos going to be your pg, then you ship the odd man out for a sidekick that fits. BPA first, trade for fit later.

By the way heres another example smart guy: in 2005 when the Hornets were up on the draft board should they NOT have selected Chris Paul because he didnt "Fit" with Baron Davis? Lmao youre so smart dude.

[magictricked]

NewYorkNoPicks Just keep making excuses. As long as the Knicks ownership has fans like you they have no reason to change. As long as fans keep blaming the "last guy" and not the guy who hired the "last guy" you are doomed to be a cellar bound team. You can blame Layden or Thomas or Walsh or the next guy but remember that Dolan is the one signing off on the deals Dolan is the man hiring these people you bash so quickly.

It's well established Dolan is running the team into the ground, everyone knows it but severe homers like you, it can't be anything but Dolan because he's the one constant personality as the Knicks nosedived their way into the new century and have yet to pull out of that dive.

Keep making excuses, keep on supporting them and putting money in their pockets with Dolan at the helm. The MSG group has no reason to make a change because the shareholders are making money and as long as that happens they could care less what the Knicks record is.

[wang4three]

The skipping on Amare in 02 wasn't really his fault. Amare refused to work out in NY after he PHX promised to pick him. It was a gamble to take on a 5th year high school kid that early in the draft who didn't want to work out for their team.

[Xiao Yao You]

Like i said before you get him and decide between him and Marbury whos going to be your pg, then you ship the odd man out for a sidekick that fits. BPA first, trade for fit later.

That was what the Knicks kept doing over and over again. Trading expiring contracts and young talent for guys with longer contracts that that didn't fit. Really worked out for them didn't it?

[NewYorkNoPicks]

That was what the Knicks kept doing over and over again. Trading expiring contracts and young talent for guys with longer contracts that that didn't fit. Really worked out for them didn't it?

Give me an example because if youre talking about the Marbury deal there was nothing wrong with that trade at the time. In 03-04 Steph was a top 10 player in the league and a top 3 point guard overall. He was the best scoring pg in the league and still got you a bunch of dimes; a consistent 20 and 10 guy. He lost his mind later but that couldnt have been predicted. If you watched the nba a few years ago youd know Marbury had all te talent in the world

[Xiao Yao You]

Marbury was great like Carmelo is great. Put up empty numbers. Not taking you anywhere.

[Peteballa]

Sweetney wasn't taken over Stoudemire, he was in the 2003 draft, Stoudemire was in the 2002 draft.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Marbury was great like Carmelo is great. Put up empty numbers. Not taking you anywhere.

Carmelos numbers arent empty you just hate the guy. Hes a more versatile scorer than Durant. Just because a Small Forward doesnt make his teammates better doesnt make his numbers empty.... Look at Kobe (yes i know hes a guard not a 3).

[Xiao Yao You]

Carmelos numbers arent empty you just hate the guy. Hes a more versatile scorer than Durant. Just because a Small Forward doesnt make his teammates better doesnt make his numbers empty.... Look at Kobe (yes i know hes a guard not a 3).

Don't hate him. Don't think he's anything more than a high scoring small forward though despite being considered one of the greats since he came into the league.

[BlackVVaves]

Carmelos numbers arent empty you just hate the guy. Hes a more versatile scorer than Durant. Just because a Small Forward doesnt make his teammates better doesnt make his numbers empty.... Look at Kobe (yes i know hes a guard not a 3).

Melo has had as talented of teams as Durant has had, and yet his "versatile scoring" has led to 8 first round exits. Durant led his team to an NBA Finals appearance, at the tender age of 23. 23.

"Bu..bu..bu...but it wasn't Melo's fault. He still be balling, he's the most versatile scorer in the league!

That's funny, because if we compare playoff stats:

Melo
25 PPG | 7 RPG | 3 APG | 42% FG


Durant
28 PPG | 8 RPG | 3 APG | 47% FG


So, the "more versatile scorer" scores less points, and closer to 40% from the field in the playoffs, while the "less versatile scorer" scores more points, and closer to 50% from the field.


"Bu..bu..bu...but you're using only 3 postseaons for Durant and like 9 for Melo!!"


How about we use Melo's playoff numbers from when he was 21, 22, and 23 and compare them to Durant's when he was the same age instead. Much better indicator of relative development as a scorer:

Melo
24 PPG | 9 RPG | 2 APG | 39% FG


Durant
28 PPG | 8 RPG | 3 APG | 47% FG


Hmm. For a more versatile scorer, Melo's numbers, compared to KD, sure are laughable.

For the superior scorer that you present him as, he has 0 scoring titles. Durant has 3, and has played almost half the amount of seasons Melo has played.

If you haven't noticed by now Knicks homer, the point I'm driving home is that Melo's "versatility" is all but a tick on a dog's ass when comparing his overall game - and even more, his career - to Durant. Durant will likely win a MVP before Melo even wins his first scoring title. Durant is currently considered the second best player in the league, and at many points last year people had him as #1. Melo has hardly even spent much time considered a Top 3 player in the league, nevermind the best player.

Melo's stats don't translate into ultimate team achievement. That's why they are labeled "empty stats." You bring up Kobe, but he has spent almost as much time in the NBA Finals as Melo has spent in the playoffs. That's why his stats aren't considered empty. And that's why Melo will always be a tier behind the Kobes and Durants of the world.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Melo has had as talented of teams as Durant has had, and yet his "versatile scoring" has led to 8 first round exits. Durant led his team to an NBA Finals appearance, at the tender age of 23. 23.

"Bu..bu..bu...but it wasn't Melo's fault. He still be balling, he's the most versatile scorer in the league!

That's funny, because if we compare playoff stats:

Melo
25 PPG | 7 RPG | 3 APG | 42% FG


Durant
28 PPG | 8 RPG | 3 APG | 47% FG


So, the "more versatile scorer" scores less points, and closer to 40% from the field in the playoffs, while the "less versatile scorer" scores more points, and closer to 50% from the field.


"Bu..bu..bu...but you're using only 3 postseaons for Durant and like 9 for Melo!!"


How about we use Melo's playoff numbers from when he was 21, 22, and 23 and compare them to Durant's when he was the same age instead. Much better indicator of relative development as a scorer:

Melo
24 PPG | 9 RPG | 2 APG | 39% FG


Durant
28 PPG | 8 RPG | 3 APG | 47% FG


Hmm. For a more versatile scorer, Melo's numbers, compared to KD, sure are laughable.

For the superior scorer that you present him as, he has 0 scoring titles. Durant has 3, and has played almost half the amount of seasons Melo has played.

If you haven't noticed by now Knicks homer, the point I'm driving home is that Melo's "versatility" is all but a tick on a dog's ass when comparing his overall game - and even more, his career - to Durant. Durant will likely win a MVP before Melo even wins his first scoring title. Durant is currently considered the second best player in the league, and at many points last year people had him as #1. Melo has hardly even spent much time considered a Top 3 player in the league, nevermind the best player.

Melo's stats don't translate into ultimate team achievement. That's why they are labeled "empty stats." You bring up Kobe, but he has spent almost as much time in the NBA Finals as Melo has spent in the playoffs. That's why his stats aren't considered empty. And that's why Melo will always be a tier behind the Kobes and Durants of the world.

Melo never played with a sidekick of Westbrooks calibur, nor did he have a 3rd option of Hardens calibur. In addition versatile does not mean more prolific, all it means is Melo can score in any method while Durants game has some holes. Melo can do it all on offense while Durant can not....yet. You also didnt analyze how many shots per game each took.

On top of that Durants finals appearance came about from a weaker Western conference than weve seen in a while. A weakened and older Lakers team resided in LA, the Spurs were deep but Duncan is nothing but a shell of his former self, as is Manu, the Suns were extinguished etc. the Nuggets making the coference finals is more impressive that the Thunder making the NBA finals in 2012

[knickscity]

I am glad to have Melo a Knick, but this Durant Melo comparison is getting old and totally played.

I don't care who has the most versatility in moves, just get the ball in the hoop and rack up the points efficiently.

Durant does that better than Melo.

Melo should have this aspect in the bag due to his overall game, but he tends to shoot the more difficult shots instead of working where his strength is...on the low block.

[Wonder Bread Kid]

Can any one tell me why people are getting so worked up over who the Spurs brought in as their new assistant GM?

[eliteballer]

Problem with the NBA for the longest time was that management and coaches were a huge old boys network. It's started to change a bit in the last 10 years as new ownership groups have come in.

[El Kabong]

Problem with the NBA for the longest time was that management and coaches were a huge old boys network. It's started to change a bit in the last 10 years as new ownership groups have come in.
Must explain how guys like Billy King keep getting jobs.