Peaks - Kevin Garnett vs. Kobe Bryant

[StateOfMind12]

Who do you guys think was better at their absolute peak/best season?

There are quite a few seasons to choose from for Kobe such as 2001, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, etc. while Garnett's peak was quite clearly 2004.

Who do you think was better?

[NumberSix]

KG was the better player, by it's overshadowed by Kobe's overwhelmingly superior resum

[TheMarkMadsen]

Whats the difference between peak & prime?

I'd say Kobe easily seeing as his "peak" or prime lasted from 01-10 and he gathered 5 titles & 2FMVP's during that time.

Solidified a Top 10 GOAT spot during that times aswell.

KG was a boss though, not taking anything away from him, that 04 season was really amazing.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Kevin Garnett easily.

Kobe sinking 3-5 more shots a game doesn't make up for the massive edge Kevin Garnett has on defense and also his intangibles.

[Shep]

peak vs peak = '04 garnett vs '01 bryant.

winner = '04 garnett

[Young X]

Why was '04 KG better than '05 KG?

[talkingconch]

lol

[RoundMoundOfReb]

KG imo.

[D.J.]

Peak Kobe was putting up 40+ like it was nothing, great finisher, and elite defender. Garnett may have had better numbers overall, but he wasn't as dominant as Kobe was.

[lakers_forever]

:lol

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Peak Kobe was putting up 40+ like it was nothing, great finisher, and elite defender. Garnett may have had better numbers overall, but he wasn't as dominant as Kobe was.

Kobe was good defensively for a perimeter player but doesn't even come remotely close to the defensive impact Garnett brings onto the court.

[Freedom Kid7]

http://jocksandstilettojill.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/KG.jpeg
I'm a bit biased though and you could argue one way or another. Kobe's longevity and prime is better, but I think KG's peak was a little better. Being my first favorite player certainly doesn't harm his case.

[kennethgriffin]

kobes 5 year prime easly beats garnett


over that 5 year span

5 straight 1st team all nba's
5 straight 1st team all defensive
5 straight top 5 mvp finishes
3 straight nba finals
2 straight nba championships
2 straight nba finals mvps
1 nba season mvp
1 olympic gold medal
81 point career high game
62 in three quarter game
4 straight 50+ point games ( 2 over 60 )
35/5/5 peak average
30/6/5 average over the 5 year span
31/6/5 playoff average over the 5 year span



and as for peak... i don't know if garnett can top kobes back to back FMVP runs of 30/6/5 in the playoffs

has garnett ever averaged 33/8/5 in a finals and dominated to a 4-1 championship?

how can anyone who needed to ring chase to get anywhere gonna have a better peak than a guy whos done it all?


lmao... this forum is re*tarded... same people who voted lebron #11 all time and baylor cant even crack the top 20

:hammerhead:

[fpliii]

kobes 5 year prime easly beats garnett


over that 5 year span

5 straight 1st team all nba's
5 straight 1st team all defensive
5 straight top 5 mvp finishes
3 straight nba finals
2 straight nba championships
2 straight nba finals mvps
1 nba season mvp
1 olympic gold medal
81 point career high game
62 in three quarter game
4 straight 50+ point games ( 2 over 60 )
35/5/5 peak average
30/6/5 average over the 5 year span
31/6/5 playoff average over the 5 year span



and as for peak... i don't know if garnett can top kobes back to back FMVP runs of 30/6/5 in the playoffs

has garnett ever averaged 33/8/5 in a finals and dominated to a 4-1 championship?

how can anyone who needed to ring chase to get anywhere gonna have a better peak than a guy whos done it all?


lmao... this forum is re*tarded... same people who voted lebron #11 all time and baylor cant even crack the top 20

:hammerhead:

griff - check this out:

http://espn.go.com/nba/forum#!/topic/1346560840-248-342

[Freedom Kid7]

:hammerhead:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xt_Pbt_ysUU/T6_fQoKxneI/AAAAAAAACkE/6VWjKPwJ5pA/s1600/Rustled%252BJimmies.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]KG was the better player, by it's overshadowed by Kobe's overwhelmingly superior resum

[BlackVVaves]

Kobe's peak was from 2005-2006 to 2008-2009.

KG's peak was from 2002-2003 to 2005-2006.

So, let's take a gander.


Kobe
2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Averages - 31 PPG | 6 RPG | 5 APG | 2 SPG | 46% FG, 57% TS


Garnett
2003, 2004, 2005, 2006
Averages - 23 PPG | 14 RPG | 5 APG | 2 BPG | 51 FG%, 57% TS

[fpliii]

Kobe's peak was from 2005-2006 to 2008-2009.

KG's peak was from 2002-2003 to 2005-2006.

So, let's take a gander.


Kobe
2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Averages - 31 PPG | 6 RPG | 5 APG | 2 SPG | 46% FG, 57% TS


Garnett
2003, 2004, 2005, 2006
Averages - 23 PPG | 14 RPG | 5 APG | 2 BPG | 51 FG%, 56% TS

I don't have a man in this, but why'd you list 2 SPG for Kobe (1.6 SPG) and leave KG off entirely (1.4 SPG), when they were basically a wash in that department? Then again, blocks/steals don't mean much anyway for defense.

Also, one could argue that Kobe was probably at his best defensively some time over the 4 years prior to his peak listed above, not coinciding with his best offensive years.

[BlackVVaves]

I don't have a man in this, but why'd you list 2 SPG for Kobe (1.6 SPG) and leave KG off entirely (1.4 SPG), when they were basically a wash in that department? Then again, blocks/steals don't mean much anyway for defense.

Also, one could argue that Kobe was probably at his best defensively some time over the 4 years prior to his peak listed above, not coinciding with his best offensive years.

I left out BPG for Kobe (about 1 per game) and SPG for KG (about 1 per game) because they were essentially a wash, and considering each was only 1 per game, a minuscule wash.

Had one or both averaged 2, 3, ect, I would have listed it (like I did with SPG for Kobe and BPG for KG).

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe's Playoff Peak (2008-2010)
29.8ppg | 5.7 rpg | 5.5 apg | 1.6 spg | 46.4%FG | 56.9% TS
-2 NBA Championships
-2 NBA Finals MVPs
-3 Conference Titles

Kobe's Regular Season Peak (2006-2008)
31.7 ppg | 5.8 rpg | 5.1 apg | 1.7 spg | 45.7% FG | 57.1% TS
-NBA MVP
-2 Scoring Titles

[Kews1]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]KG was the better player, by it's overshadowed by Kobe's overwhelmingly superior resum

[ShaqAttack3234]

Who do you guys think was better at their absolute peak/best season?

There are quite a few seasons to choose from for Kobe such as 2001, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, etc. while Garnett's peak was quite clearly 2004.

Who do you think was better?

Kobe clearly wasn't at his peak in '01. He played arguably his best from an all around standpoint in the '01 playoffs along with '08, but '01 is disqualified just by the fact that he maintained that same all around play except with a better skill set for an entire season and playoff run in '08, while his regular season wasn't nearly at that level in '01.

He did clearly add to his skill set after '01 becoming a legitimate 3 point shooter in '03 and also adding more moves around that time going to more pump fakes and improving his footwork to the point where it was the best in the league.

In fact, I'd call Kobe's prime '03-'09. I don't see as much of a case for '09 either since he had a better version of that year in '08.

Really, I think Kobe's peak is between both '06 and '08, while KG's is '04, but '03 was basically even for him.

Peak is very tough. Kobe gives you a lot more as a scorer, and ultimately that is a big enough gap to make Kobe a better offensive player, especially since Kobe was also an above average playmaker. KG's advantage defensively is very big though and he also gives you a lot more as a rebounder due to his position. KG was a great passer too, and possibly the most versatile 7 footer to play the game. He impacts the game in so many ways.

It's really difficult. Since KG's peak in '04 came on a contending team, it might be easier to compare '08 Kobe. And ultimately, Kobe was better in the playoffs, so I might have to lean towards Kobe.

I thought I would have decided between '06 and '08 as Kobe's peak by now. :facepalm '06 was his individual display, but '08 was his best as an all around player, and probably as a two-way player as well as clearly his smartest and most unselfish basketball. And that was certainly more of a championship style. But that's purely circumstantial considering '06 was a team with very limited talent and also most of those players first season in the triangle. Which is why Phil asked Kobe to carry the team. His one talented teammate was Odom, who wasn't consistent until the second half of the season. Once Odom started playing like an all-star caliber player in the second half of the season, the Lakers went 19-11, a 52 win pace and finished the season 11-3. Remarkable for that team. Kobe switching his approach to benefit the team vs Phoenix was also very impressive nearly resulting in an upset of a superior team, and coming up with 50 in game 6 that would have closed out the series was also impressive.

The fact that Kobe switched his approach so successful instantly tells me he would have done the right thing on a championship team.

[Jacks3]

Kobe's Playoff Peak (2008-2010)
29.8ppg | 5.7 rpg | 5.5 apg | 1.6 spg | 46.4%FG | 56.9% TS
-2 NBA Championships
-2 NBA Finals MVPs
-3 Conference Titles

Kobe's Regular Season Peak (2006-2008)
31.7 ppg | 5.8 rpg | 5.1 apg | 1.7 spg | 45.7% FG | 57.1% TS
-NBA MVP
-2 Scoring Titles
Yeah, this is easily Kobe. The gap between them offensively is astronomical. I mean, Kobe in the 2012 playoffs had more 30+ pt and 40+ pt games than KG has had for his playoff entire career.:oldlol:

[RRR3]

Yeah, this is easily Kobe. The gap between them offensively is astronomical. I mean, Kobe in the 2012 playoffs had more 30+ pt and 40+ pt games than KG has had for his entire career.:oldlol:
LOL @ trying to make it seem like Kobe was great in the playoffs in 2012

[Jacks3]

:biggums:

That wasn't the point at all.

But he did have a great playoffs. 30/5/4/25 PER/109 ORTG/53% TS.

In his 16th season. :bowdown:

[RRR3]

:biggums:

That wasn't the point at all.

But he did have a great playoffs. 30/5/4/25 PER/109 ORTG/53% TS.

In his 16th season. :bowdown:
http://i.imgur.com/smeZ3.gif

[KG215]

Yeah, this is easily Kobe. The gap between them offensively is astronomical. I mean, Kobe in the 2012 playoffs had more 30+ pt and 40+ pt games than KG has had for his playoff entire career.:oldlol:

And :oldlol: at acting like it's "easily" Kobe only because of scoring while ignoring the significant impact Garnett had as a defensive player, which was greater than the impact Kobe had as a defensive player. Especially if you're comparing their peak seasons. 2008 Kobe was great defensive player but I'm not even sure it was his best defensive season. And 2006 certainly wasn't his best defensive season, not even close. Those are probably his two best seasons. Compare either to Garnett's peak season and, while Kobe has a pretty sizable edge as a scorer, Garnett (in my opinion) has a pretty sizable edge as an overall impact defensive player.

Not saying I'd take peak Garnett, but it's a lot closer than you think.

[Heavincent]

Kobe has the clear edge.

[BlackVVaves]

Great post ShaqAttack. I myself don't know which of the two I'd pick. Kobe's offensive ability in his peak is nearly equalized by KG's defensive prowless in his (though I think KG's best defensive years were after his peak. Which is ironic since Kobe's best defensive years were before his peak).

I think it should also be noted that Kobe is/was a very good rebounder for someone who spends most of his time on the perimeter, while KG is/was a very good passer for a big man (as you alluded to).

Looking at the statistics, I didn't realize how low (for a big man) KG's FG% was. He spent a couple of seasons in his prime shooting 47%. That would be similar to Kobe shooting 38% for a couple of seasons in his prime.

Could be attributed to KG being a jump shooting big, but still. That's like saying Kobe's FG% is typically "just okay" because he takes so many long range, difficult shots. Surely a feasible reason, but results are still results.

[fpliii]

And :oldlol: at acting like it's "easily" Kobe only because of scoring while ignoring the significant impact Garnett had as a defensive player, which was greater than the impact Kobe had as a defensive player. Especially if you're comparing their peak seasons. 2008 Kobe was great defensive player but I'm not even sure it was his best defensive season. And 2006 certainly wasn't his best defensive season, not even close. Those are probably his two best seasons. Compare either to Garnett's peak season and, while Kobe has a pretty sizable edge as a scorer, Garnett (in my opinion) has a pretty sizable edge as an overall impact defensive player.

Not saying I'd take peak Garnett, but it's a lot closer than you think.

hey - I just e-mailed you the 1980 playoff box scores + articles for Bird, and will send you the 81 file by the end of the night

from the look of your spreadsheet, you have everything from 85 on, so after tonight, 82, 83, 84 will be the only runs remaining

unfortunately, ProQuest's Boston Globe archives only go to 1981 (though I believe Boston.com has archives, I don't have a subscription and they're pay-per-article unless you have a newspaper subscription with the Globe), so I'm going to have to use other sources to get you the information you need (it should be fine though, I checked a couple of games at random and didn't have much difficulty)

for the Finals, fortunately most of the heavy lifting is already done...here are the two series you're missing:

http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1981.htm
http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1984.htm

sorry for taking so long to get back to you, but I've been swamped with other requests; you should have the rest of the missing games by the end of the week

[BlackVVaves]

And :oldlol: at acting like it's "easily" Kobe only because of scoring while ignoring the significant impact Garnett had as a defensive player, which was greater than the impact Kobe had as a defensive player. Especially if you're comparing their peak seasons. 2008 Kobe was great defensive player but I'm not even sure it was his best defensive season. And 2006 certainly wasn't his best defensive season, not even close. Those are probably his two best seasons. Compare either to Garnett's peak season and, while Kobe has a pretty sizable edge as a scorer, Garnett (in my opinion) has a pretty sizable edge as an overall impact defensive player.

Not saying I'd take peak Garnett, but it's a lot closer than you think.

Yup. I agree.

[KG215]

hey - I just e-mailed you the 1980 playoff box scores + articles for Bird, and will send you the 81 file by the end of the night

from the look of your spreadsheet, you have everything from 85 on, so after tonight, 82, 83, 84 will be the only runs remaining

unfortunately, ProQuest's Boston Globe archives only go to 1981 (though I believe Boston.com has archives, I don't have a subscription and they're pay-per-article unless you have a newspaper subscription with the Globe), so I'm going to have to use other sources to get you the information you need (it should be fine though, I checked a couple of games at random and didn't have much difficulty)

for the Finals, fortunately most of the heavy lifting is already done...here are the two series you're missing:

http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1981.htm
http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1984.htm

sorry for taking so long to get back to you, but I've been swamped with other requests; you should have the rest of the missing games by the end of the week

:cheers:

I thought I had all the Finals done for Magic and Bird? I'll have to look. Anyway, really appreciate it!

[fpliii]

:cheers:

I thought I had all the Finals done for Magic and Bird? I'll have to look. Anyway, really appreciate it!

Magic's done in the spreadsheet I have, but Bird only goes back to 82

you already had 84 in there it seems, sorry bout that :oldlol:

fortunately you have a lot of 83,84,85 done already, so the holes to fill won't be that bad

[jdm_dc_fan]

In this era I would take KG over kobe in a second. 02'-03' KG 23/14/6 average? :pimp: He got 6 triple doubles that season. :bowdown:

28/5/5 is gonna be a dime a dozen soon.

[KG215]

Magic's done in the spreadsheet I have, but Bird only goes back to 82

you already had 84 in there it seems, sorry bout that :oldlol:

fortunately you have a lot of 83,84,85 done already, so the holes to fill won't be that bad

Yeah, I didn't even bother to start in 1980 for Bird. Don't know why I did for Magic since it felt just as pointless.

And I'm getting to read Bob Ryan Boston Globe game recaps. :bowdown:

I'll rep you when I can. Even though I've only repped like one or two people today, it's saying I've given out too much rep in the last 24 hours.

[fpliii]

Yeah, I didn't even bother to start in 1980 for Bird. Don't know why I did for Magic since it felt just as pointless.

And I'm getting to read Bob Ryan Boston Globe game recaps. :bowdown:

I'll rep you when I can. Even though I've only repped like one or two people today, it's saying I've given out too much rep in the last 24 hours.

lol Bob Ryan knows his stuff

I'd actually like to read more of his playoff articles on Bird and the 80s Celtics (he's a damn good writer), so I'm looking into where else they have archives online

[Gifted Mind]

Kobe's peak was from 06-08
Garnett's peak was from 03-05

[BlackVVaves]

In this era I would take KG over kobe in a second. 02'-03' KG 23/14/6 average? :pimp: He got 6 triple doubles that season. :bowdown:

28/5/5 is gonna be a dime a dozen soon.

I agree KG's versatility that year was amazing, but you're statement about 28/5/5 becoming common is pretty damn dumb.

First of all, Kobe put up 31/6/5 or 32/6/5 those years, depending on if you count 09 or not. So, not sure where 28/5/5 came from?

Second, let's just pretend the stat line was 28/5/5. Who do you envision putting up that type of stat line in the near future?

KD? He won't be passing at that high of a rate.

Westbrook? He won't be scoring at that high of a rate with Durant and Harden in the fold.

Wade? He won't be scoring at that rate ever again.

The only player with a legit chance (outside of Bron, who has pretty much done that every season of his prime) is Melo. And, I don't even think Melo will ever average 5 assists in a game.

So, one player in the next, 3-5 years = a dime a dozen? :rolleyes:

[RazorBaLade]

And :oldlol: at acting like it's "easily" Kobe only because of scoring while ignoring the significant impact Garnett had as a defensive player, which was greater than the impact Kobe had as a defensive player. Especially if you're comparing their peak seasons. 2008 Kobe was great defensive player but I'm not even sure it was his best defensive season. And 2006 certainly wasn't his best defensive season, not even close. Those are probably his two best seasons. Compare either to Garnett's peak season and, while Kobe has a pretty sizable edge as a scorer, Garnett (in my opinion) has a pretty sizable edge as an overall impact defensive player.

Not saying I'd take peak Garnett, but it's a lot closer than you think.

if you defend someone like a god, you still have to score

if you score more than someone, you win


team defense is muxh more important than 1 good defender

[RRR3]

if you defend someone like a god, you still have to score

if you score more than someone, you win


team defense is muxh more important than 1 good defender
Prime KG was good for 22-24 PPG:confusedshrug:

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe Bryant.

It's actually pretty close, but Kobe's 03 was pretty close to Garnett's 03. His 06-08 was much better, but Garnett's 04 is tough to beat too.

It's weird to me, because it seems like Kobe peaked at different times, if that makes sense.

I'll take Kobe though. Not "easily", but put him along side a solid big man and your going to the finals, where as Garnett needs more scorers to get there.

[Poetry]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/d6ed901c.jpg

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

if you defend someone like a god, you still have to score

if you score more than someone, you win


team defense is muxh more important than 1 good defender

Scoring is equally important to both teams. Which means it's just as important to prevent your opponent from scoring as it is to score yourself.

Kevin Garnett has great impact on team defense as a whole. Do you live on the moon?

[Kews1]

if you defend someone like a god, you still have to score

if you score more than someone, you win


team defense is muxh more important than 1 good defender

if you defend like a god you dont have to score much

if you just score than you have to score alot

whats easier?

dosnt have any relevance to either of these players their both good defenders


jus sayinnn

[NumberSix]

if you score more than someone, you win
OMG!!!! I just had a genius idea.

Hear me out.

What if......... you tried....... to prevent the OTHER TEAM from scoring? :hammerhead:

[Harison]

Kobe definitely more accomplished, and an elite All-time great scorer, especially when he is "in the zone". Both players are clutch, but Kobe has an edge there.

That said, imagine Garnett with Shaq on the Lakers... Due to better chemistry and no ego clashes, Shaq probably would have played much longer if not for the rest of his career on the Lakers. Thats like ~10 rings potential right there from this duo. Shaq would challenge Jordan for GOAT, and KG would be in the ~Top6 All-time.

Accolades aside, speaking about their peaks and impact on the team, its a big man game. Prime Kobe was an elite defender, but he simply cant impact the game as much as KG/Duncan/Hakeem, etc. can. Plus Kobe's defensive prime wasnt that long, for one reason or another. ~30 points might seem much more impressive than ~24, but in defense alone KG saves his team from 13+ points every game, add rebounds, etc. and even from pure math standpoint KG would have a slight edge.

Intangibles wise, KG has an advantage too. "Kobe's ball" doesnt improve the game play of the others, KG is one of the ultimate team-players. You wont see in stats the arrangement of the defensive plays, rotations, and holding everyone accountable. Both are fiery in-your-face leaders, but of different kind. Kobe's leadership is more self-oriented, while Garnett's - team. I havent heard All-stars coming and telling how Kobe made them better, like many said about KG.

[Bigsmoke]

yo moma

[Quickening]

KG

[Deuce Bigalow]

KG
http://i.imm.io/CWbV.png

[Jacks3]

That said, imagine Garnett with Shaq on the Lakers... Due to better chemistry and no ego clashes, Shaq probably would have played much longer if not for the rest of his career on the Lakers. Thats like ~10 rings potential right there from this duo.


10 rings?:biggums:

[Kews1]

http://i.imm.io/CWbV.png

I didnt realize this thread was about Lebron.

[RRR3]

I didnt realize this thread was about Lebron.
Everything is about LeBron to incredibly insecure fanboys like him.:confusedshrug:

[Anaximandro1]

Kobe wins

[Vertical-24]

Peak Kobe was putting up 40+ like it was nothing, great finisher, and elite defender. Garnett may have had better numbers overall, but he wasn't as dominant as Kobe was.

This. Not to discredit KG, who is a great player in his own right, but I think Kobe should be the clear cut choice in the discussion.

[macpierce]

Kobe by a decent margin, I cant count on garnett taking over games which ultimately decides who wins anyway

[RaininTwos]

Kobe by a decent margin, I cant count on garnett taking over games which ultimately decides who wins anyway
Never knew you could count on anyone to take games over. Interesting.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Never knew you could count on anyone to take games over. Interesting.

Kobe, Lebron, Dirk, Durant, Rose all players who can be counted on to take over a game if their team needs it.

[Rysio]

op deserves a ban for even asking this. kobe not close.

[RaininTwos]

Kobe, Lebron, Dirk, Durant, Rose all players who can be counted on to take over a game if their team needs it.
You guys make it seem like they come through all the time. They don't. KG just like all of those players have taken over games.

[DaHeezy]

Kobe's peak was far more impressive. He was breaking scoring records. having accomplishments rivaling Jordan. Kevin Garnett was great and all but Kobe rivaled for best player ing the world, Garnett rivaled for best PF in the league, which I don't think he ever was (not with Tim Duncan at his prime).

[funnystuff]

http://i.imm.io/CWbV.png
Why would you put a snowflake on that trophy?

[WockaVodka]

Kobe's peak was far more impressive. He was breaking scoring records. having accomplishments rivaling Jordan. Kevin Garnett was great and all but Kobe rivaled for best player ing the world, Garnett rivaled for best PF in the league, which I don't think he ever was (not with Tim Duncan at his prime).
Garnett was the best player in 2004. He probably would have been considered the best player more if he wasn't playing on such a horrid team like the Wolves.

[DaHeezy]

Garnett was the best player in 2004. He probably would have been considered the best player more if he wasn't playing on such a horrid team like the Wolves.

Being MVP doesn't translate to best player in the world. Do you agree Steve Nash was the best player in the world for 2 years?

[zay_24]

lol
This, these muthafuccas lost they mind

[KG215]

I'm getting a kick out of all the people who don't even think it's kind of close. I'll take peak Kobe, too, but it's much closer than some of the Kobe/Lakers fans want to admit.

Peak Garnett had an incredible defensive impact that went well beyond his 1.5-2 bpg and 1.5ish spg. I know Kobe was a good defender (although his peak scoring and peak defensive seasons didn't really happen at the same time) but Garnett has a pretty clear cut advantage in that department. If you want to still call Duncan the best player in the league in 2004, I can live with that, but Garnett was right there with him.

[WockaVodka]

Being MVP doesn't translate to best player in the world. Do you agree Steve Nash was the best player in the world for 2 years?
I know MVP doesn't equate to best player, but Garnett was the best player in 2004, MVP or not.

I actually do think Nash was the best in 2005, not 2006 though, that was clearly Kobe.

[Coffee Black]

KG was great in '04, but he lacked the mental aspect to put him on par with Kobe. I remember Malone was able to give him a good amount of problems even though KG was a much better player. It's a good thing he had I am Sam on the team.

[KG215]

KG was great in '04, but he lacked the mental aspect to put him on par with Kobe. I remember Malone was able to give him a good amount of problems even though KG was a much better player. It's a good thing he had I am Sam on the team.

You reference Karl Malone giving KG problems and Sam Cassell in the same post, and Sam Cassell basically didn't play in the '04 WCF. I think he played six combined minutes in two games and completely missed two others.

[WockaVodka]

KG was great in '04, but he lacked the mental aspect to put him on par with Kobe. I remember Malone was able to give him a good amount of problems even though KG was a much better player. It's a good thing he had I am Sam on the team.
Sam Cassell was injured and out for most of the 04 WCF. Garnett literally had to play PG himself in that series

[Coffee Black]

You reference Karl Malone giving KG problems and Sam Cassell in the same post, and Sam Cassell basically didn't play in the '04 WCF. I think he played six combined minutes in two games and completely missed two others.

I didn't say Cassell helped him when facing Malone guy. I said Malone was able to get in his head when they faced each other. Additionally, it was good that Sam was there to hit big shots and do the big balls dance when the team faced some tough spots through out the year.

[dyna]

Prime = Kobe
Peak = Garnett

[KG215]

I didn't say Cassell helped him when facing Malone guy. I said Malone was able to get in his head when they faced each other. Additionally, it was good that Sam was there to hit big shots and do the big balls dance when the team faced some tough spots through out the year.

Right, if they didn't have Cassell they probably don't do as well, I'm not disputing that. Garnett, though, was the team's best player and played at an incredible level that year. And it's not like Cassell was taking and making every clutch shot or making every big play for the T-Wolves.

But your last post made it seem like Garnett was luck he had Cassell in the WCF in '04 and that simply was't true since he essentially played in just two of the six games. Garnett was doing almost everything for that team and that included playing PG.

That season, with Garnett at the height of his powers, he showed what he could do with a good supporting cast. I mean it's not like it was an incredible supporting cast with Cassell and Sprewell both in their mid-30s nd a lot of mediocre players filling out the rest of the roster; but Garnett finally got some help and damn near got to the Finals. Without Cassell they took the Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton Lakers six games in the WCF.

And I know Malone and Payton weren't anywhere near prime Malone and Payton, but the Lakers had the more talented team, especially when you factor in Cassell's absence.

[macpierce]

Right, if they didn't have Cassell they probably don't do as well, I'm not disputing that. Garnett, though, was the team's best player and played at an incredible that year. And it's not like Cassell was taking and making every clutch shot or making every big play for the T-Wolves.

But your last post made it seem like Garnett was luck he had Cassell in the WCF in '04 and that simply was't true since he essentially played in just two of the six games. Garnett was doing almost everything for that team and that included playing PG.

That season, with Garnett at the height of his powers, he showed what he could do with a good supporting cast. I mean it's not like it was an incredible supporting cast with Cassell and Sprewell both in their mid-30s nd a lot of mediocre players filling out the rest of the roster; but Garnett finally got some help and damn near got to the Finals. Without Cassell they took the Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton Lakers six games in the WCF.

And I know Malone and Payton weren't anywhere near prime Malone and Payton, but the Lakers had the more talented team, especially when you factor in Cassell's absence.

http://i.imgur.com/ziSZO.gif

[KG215]

http://i.imgur.com/ziSZO.gif

I'm sorry you went through the trouble of finding a gif to just tell me you didn't read my post. But good for you.

[macpierce]

That gif is hilarious, I was waiting for the perfect time to use it

[Coffee Black]

Right, if they didn't have Cassell they probably don't do as well, I'm not disputing that. Garnett, though, was the team's best player and played at an incredible level that year. And it's not like Cassell was taking and making every clutch shot or making every big play for the T-Wolves.

But your last post made it seem like Garnett was luck he had Cassell in the WCF in '04 and that simply was't true since he essentially played in just two of the six games. Garnett was doing almost everything for that team and that included playing PG.

That season, with Garnett at the height of his powers, he showed what he could do with a good supporting cast. I mean it's not like it was an incredible supporting cast with Cassell and Sprewell both in their mid-30s nd a lot of mediocre players filling out the rest of the roster; but Garnett finally got some help and damn near got to the Finals. Without Cassell they took the Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton Lakers six games in the WCF.

And I know Malone and Payton weren't anywhere near prime Malone and Payton, but the Lakers had the more talented team, especially when you factor in Cassell's absence.

No doubt KG was great that year. Just giving a few examples as to why I feel he does not have the mental edge that Kobe does.

[KG215]

That gif is hilarious, I was waiting for the perfect time to use it

You have an odd sense of humor if that's something you find hilarious. To each his own, I guess.

Not sure why or how that post was the perfect time to use it either, but...cool

[tikay0]

If we're talking, who would we rather build our franchise around, easily KG. KG took latrell sprewell and old ass sam cassell to the WCF. Kobe bean would never ever be able to do that. The dude has Gasol and Bynum and just barely escapes the 1st round of the playoffs, and gets swept in the 1st fuggin rd. the year prior. Come on son!

[ukplayer4]

as usual it takes shaqattack to be one of the few logical posters argueing without bias. :applause:

in terms of the better player peak, its very close. kg was a dominant rebounder and defensive player and a great playmaker himself, whilst kobe was obviously the better scorer kg still got you 22-25 a game on better %'s.
kobe has the better resume but we all know kg was single handidly dragging all those god awful timberwolf teams as far as they could possibly go...

i think you could go either way.

[RazorBaLade]

OMG!!!! I just had a genius idea.

Hear me out.

What if......... you tried....... to prevent the OTHER TEAM from scoring? :hammerhead:

you still have to score more than them tho no matter what u do on defense.. good offense always beats gopod defense anyways//

being the more dominant offensive player cuts out that middleman and makes it a rather easy choice imo

[ThunderStruk022]

you still have to score more than them tho no matter what u do on defense.. good offense always beats good defense anyways//

being the more dominant offensive player cuts out that middleman and makes it a rather easy choice imo

The inability of Kobe/Laker fans to be objective never ceases to amaze me.

Right, let's just throw defense out the window all-together while we're at it. Never mind that peak Garnett was one of the most impactful and well-rounded defenders in NBA history. If we include that then, gasp, you can actually make a strong case that peak Garnett is very close (if not as good or better) to peak Kobe.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

you still have to score more than them tho no matter what u do on defense.. good offense always beats gopod defense anyways//

being the more dominant offensive player cuts out that middleman and makes it a rather easy choice imo

:eek:

The people encumbered by darkness, along came RazorBaLade, splitting the red sea, to reveal to these poor souls the commandments of competitive sports.

[The Choken One]

I hate when people compare different positions and completely different players...

brb, comparing apples & oranges

It depends what the team needs to decide who's "better". Both of these players are basically at the top of their respective positions. How can you accurately compare them with bias? You can't.

[swag2011]

Most of these people yall make comparisons with Kobe (duncan, KG etc) yall only pick them b/c their defense is better and has more impact. Well isn't a big man ALWAYS supposed to have more defensive impact? that's stupid.

[RRR3]

Most of these people yall make comparisons with Kobe (duncan, KG etc) yall only pick them b/c their defense is better and has more impact. Well isn't a big man ALWAYS supposed to have more defensive impact? that's stupid.
Not always, Kobe has more defensive impact than, say, Dirk does.

[ThunderStruk022]

Most of these people yall make comparisons with Kobe (duncan, KG etc) yall only pick them b/c their defense is better and has more impact. Well isn't a big man ALWAYS supposed to have more defensive impact? that's stupid.

No, they'er comparing him to Duncan and Garnett because they're other players from the same era that are considered top 10 or 20/25 players all-time. Pretty sure there was a Kobe vs. Wade peak thread on here few weeks go.

[fpliii]

Most of these people yall make comparisons with Kobe (duncan, KG etc) yall only pick them b/c their defense is better and has more impact. Well isn't a big man ALWAYS supposed to have more defensive impact? that's stupid.

not necessarily

if I had to hierarchize the different types of defenders (in today's game):

defensive anchors>>>perimeter man defenders>>>post man defense>perimeter help defense

there's not much value in strictly playing passing lanes or playing a big straight up; being the hub of a defense is always huge, and in today's game with rules designed to open up the perimeter for wing players, it's big to be able to guard your man straight up

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

Most of these people yall make comparisons with Kobe (duncan, KG etc) yall only pick them b/c their defense is better and has more impact. Well isn't a big man ALWAYS supposed to have more defensive impact? that's stupid.

So? If player has more defensive impact he has more defensive impact. Why should it be disregarded because of differences in position and size?

[tikay0]

So? If player has more defensive impact he has more defensive impact. Why should it be disregarded because of differences in position and size?

Because it hurts butt hurt kobe fan's feelings.

[raprap]

Ummm. They play different positions. Its like comparing prime Duncan to prime Iverson.

[Kews1]

Ummm. They play different positions. Its like comparing prime Duncan to prime Iverson.

Apples and oranges isn't it

[tmacattack33]

I don't know. I'm too biased to say.

All I know is that peak Lebron (his last two yrs in Cleveland, and his 2012 current version) is better than both :rockon:

[swag2011]

So? If player has more defensive impact he has more defensive impact. Why should it be disregarded because of differences in position and size?

It shouldn't be disregarded but it is still stupid, point blank. Wouldn't it look bad on KG if a guard has more defensive impact than him? Shouldn't big men generally be the defensive anchors of their team? In fact, how many guards can you name have had a bigger defensive impact than a big (that's an all time great?) I'm not looking for ANY guard to have a bigger defensive impact than a big.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

It shouldn't be disregarded but it is still stupid, point blank. Wouldn't it look bad on KG if a guard has more defensive impact than him? Shouldn't big men generally be the defensive anchors of their team? In fact, how many guards can you name have had a bigger defensive impact than a big (that's an all time great?) I'm not looking for ANY guard to have a bigger defensive impact than a big.

It's stupid to you because it's not favorable to Kobe Bryant in the comparison. But it's the truth. I couldn't care less if it hurts your butt that Kevin Garnett is a vastly superior defensive player than Kobe Bryant.

[Kews1]

It shouldn't be disregarded but it is still stupid, point blank. Wouldn't it look bad on KG if a guard has more defensive impact than him? Shouldn't big men generally be the defensive anchors of their team? In fact, how many guards can you name have had a bigger defensive impact than a big (that's an all time great?) I'm not looking for ANY guard to have a bigger defensive impact than a big.

I dont even know what your talking about, Gary Payton or Michael Jordan possibly

[alleykat]

it depends.....

i feel kobe's peak was better than KG in basically the idea that he lead his team to the rings and was able to get his numbers despite the already productive scoring ability of his team in 09....

but I feel KG impacted more areas of the game in his peak (but had to) because in fact he was with the timberwolves....