When did Dirk Nowitzki pass Rick Barry?

[L.Kizzle]

:biggums:

http://media.onsugar.com/files/ons2/342/3425287/43_2009/0cc39315918c2933_rick_barry_allstar_prog.jpg

Not sure when or where I was when this happened. Was it after last years Finals or something?

Rick Barry has 9 all-nba/aba first teams and his team was much worse that he led to the Finals in 1975.

Barry was a better scorer, passer, slightly less rebounder being 6 inches shorter (Barry high is higher than Dirks ...) and were about as clutch.

This man is becoming underrated.

[Al Thornton]

u weren't even alive when he played. how do you know any of this?

[L.Kizzle]

u weren't even alive when he played. how do you know any of this?
So I am only able to know things that I was alive for?

What do kids study History for in school, they weren't alive when any of it happened.

:facepalm

[noosaman]

Why single out Dirk?

[L.Kizzle]

Why single out Dirk?
Cause he's the only one who just (apparently) recently passed Barry.

[Haymaker]

Cause he's the only one who just (apparently) recently passed Barry. passed what? your accusation is too vague. where did dirk passed barry in what? who said it? is it official?

[StateOfMind12]

Dirk had more dominant seasons than Barry did, not to mention more accolades and accomplishments as well.

Barry should be above Baylor though. Baylor was not that efficient in his time period.

[L.Kizzle]

passed what? your accusation is too vague. where did dirk passed barry in what? who said it? is it official?
In All-Time rankings.

[L.Kizzle]

Dirk had more dominant seasons than Barry did, not to mention more accolades and accomplishments as well.

Barry should be above Baylor though. Baylor was not that efficient in his time period.
How are his more dominate than Barry's? Other than the league MVP, Barry has him beat in everything. More All-Star games, more All-NBA 1st teams (9 to Dirks three. Dirk has one more than Tracy McGrady)

And you talk about dominance, but want to have Barry over Baylor? Barry FG% is 45 and Baylor's 43%. Which for their era's, Barry's is at the league average and Barry's maybe slightly below, not sure.

[StateOfMind12]

How are his more dominate than Barry's? Other than the league MVP, Barry has him beat in everything. More All-Star games, more All-NBA 1st teams (9 to Dirks three. Dirk has one more than Tracy McGrady)
More all-star games and more NBA Teams don't mean much especially considering how Barry did it in a weaker era. 70s was one of the weaker eras of basketball due to the ABA/NBA dichotomy.


And you talk about dominance, but want to have Barry over Baylor? Barry FG% is 45 and Baylor's 43%. Which for their era's, Barry's is at the league average and Barry's maybe slightly below, not sure.
Feel free to compare their TS% which is a much better and much more indicative stat of scoring efficiency than FG%.

You have to factor in things like the ability to get to the line and the ability to make those FTA count.

[L.Kizzle]

More all-star games and more NBA Teams don't mean much especially considering how Barry did it in a weaker era. 70s was one of the weaker eras of basketball due to the ABA/NBA dichotomy.


Feel free to compare their TS% which is a much better and much more indicative stat of scoring efficiency than FG%.

You have to factor in things like the ability to get to the line and the ability to make those FTA count.
It may have been weak, but he was making All-NBA 1st teams with Baylor, Hondo and Hayes.

Dirk couldn't get his first teams until KG slightly slowed down in the mid 2000s and before LeBron's dominance.


Barry is possibly the greatest free throw shooter ever. I know that's not the reason you're taking him over Baylor is it?

[StateOfMind12]

It may have been weak, but he was making All-NBA 1st teams with Baylor, Hondo and Hayes.

Dirk couldn't get his first teams until KG slightly slowed down in the mid 2000s and before LeBron's dominance.
I have both KG and Lebron above Dirk, Barry, and Baylor so this is just further example that Dirk's competition were far greater than Barry's.



Barry is possibly the greatest free throw shooter ever. I know that's not the reason you're taking him over Baylor is it?
Well TS% factors in how many FTA you take as well.

Jose Calderon was a 90%+ FT shooter before but his TS% isn't really boosted by it because he only took like 1-2 FTA. The same goes for Jason Kapono and most dead eye shooters.

Players with really high TS% are players that make FTs at a good clip and get to the FT line at a good clip. Good examples would be James Harden and Paul Pierce. They still also have to hit from the field at a good clip too, 2s, 3s, etc.

[L.Kizzle]

I have both KG and Lebron above Dirk, Barry, and Baylor so this is just further example that Dirk's competition were far greater than Barry's.



Well TS% factors in how many FTA you take as well.

Jose Calderon was a 90%+ FT shooter before but his TS% isn't really boosted by it because he only took like 1-2 FTA. The same goes for Jason Kapono and most dead eye shooters.

Players with really high TS% are players that make FTs at a good clip and get to the FT line at a good clip. Good examples would be James Harden and Paul Pierce.
Far greater, they are all in the same league give or take a few spots, talking about Dirk, Barry, KG, Bron and Baylor. Not like I included Shawn Marion or Chet Walker in these comparisons.

And I am talking about all-time great players were factoring in the free thrown shooting not scrubs lie Calderon.

Baylor avg about 9 free throw attempts per game with 13 being his highest. He hit at about 80% clip.

Barry avg a little under 6 free throws per game with 10 being his highest (over 11 once in the ABA) and he hit about 90% of his.

Still not getting were you're coming from.

Baylor got to the line more, Barry shot a higher percentage. If they both take ten free throws, Baylor is making 8 and Barry making 9.

[StateOfMind12]

And I am talking about all-time great players were factoring in the free thrown shooting not scrubs lie Calderon.
I was explaining how TS% worked and how and why Calderon's TS% isn't that great despite being a tremendous FT shooter.


Baylor avg about 9 free throw attempts per game with 13 being his highest. He hit at about 80% clip.

Barry avg a little under 6 free throws per game with 10 being his highest (over 11 once in the ABA) and he hit about 90% of his.

Still not getting were you're coming from.

Baylor got to the line more, Barry shot a higher percentage. If they both take ten free throws, Baylor is making 8 and Barry making 9.
There are few reasons why Barry's TS% was higher than Baylor's. In the ABA, there was a 3 point line and Barry did shoot from there a few times a game and made some. If we are talking NBA only, Barry's TS% is slightly better, but better is better.

The biggest reason was because Barry shot from the FT line 10 percentages better. Barry was a 87-92% FT shooter, Baylor was an 70-80% shooter.

Barry made practically the same amount of FTs as Baylor did while taking less FTAs. That is more efficient because Barry isn't wasting or using as much possessions as Baylor did.

Two miss FTs is a complete waste and pretty much a turnover since offensive rebounds from the FT line are unheard of.

It is pretty much the same as FGs if you think about it. If you take two more shots than another player but make the same amount of shots as another player, you are less efficient because you are taking more possessions/shots to get a certain amount of points.

It is funny because Barry's FG% is actually better than Baylor's, at least when talking prime.

[ThaRegul8r]

How are his more dominate than Barry's? Other than the league MVP, Barry has him beat in everything.

As far as the MVP, Barry was robbed of the MVP in '75 because no one liked him.

And I mean that literally.

[L.Kizzle]

I was explaining how TS% worked and how and why Calderon's TS% isn't that great despite being a tremendous FT shooter.


There are few reasons why Barry's TS% was higher than Baylor's. In the ABA, there was a 3 point line and Barry did shoot from there a few times a game and made some. If we are talking NBA only, Barry's TS% is slightly better, but better is better.

The biggest reason was because Barry shot from the FT line 10 percentages better. Barry was a 87-92% FT shooter, Baylor was an 70-80% shooter.

Barry made practically the same amount of FTs as Baylor did while taking less FTAs. That is more efficient because Barry isn't wasting or using as much possessions as Baylor did.

Two miss FTs is a complete waste and pretty much a turnover since offensive rebounds from the FT line are unheard of.

It is pretty much the same as FGs if you think about it. If you take two more shots than another player but make the same amount of shots as another player, you are less efficient because you are taking more possessions/shots to get a certain amount of points.

It is funny because Barry's FG% is actually better than Baylor's, at least when talking prime.
When it comes down to it, I'm not picking some one because they are a 89% free throw shooter and the other is a 79% shooter. When the other guy is basically better at everything other than passing.

And Barry primes was the 70s, 70s shot a higher FG% than the 60s era did. League avg was 45.7% in the 75 compared to 42.6% in 62.

[StateOfMind12]

As far as the MVP, Barry was robbed of the MVP in '75 because no one liked him.

And I mean that literally.
I have heard of this many times about Barry. Barry was probably the most hated player ever among teammates especially.

He did pretty much single handily win a title for his team in '75 though, or close to it.

[StateOfMind12]

When it comes down to it, I'm not picking some one because they are a 89% free throw shooter and the other is a 79% shooter. When the other guy is basically better at everything other than passing.
It further highlights that Barry was probably a better scorer than Baylor, certainly more efficient. I'll have to do a bit more research on the two though.


And Barry primes was the 70s, 70s shot a higher FG% than the 60s era did. League avg was 45.7% in the 75 compared to 42.6% in 62.
This is a good point. I'm kind of curious what their numbers looked like in the post-season because that matters the most when it comes to all-time greats.

[Kblaze8855]

Many would give him the edge due to the MVP with the ring and not just the ring. Which then makes you ask how he got past Bob Pettit who has a ring and two mvps and won his ring with a 50 point game his team needed all of. He was also all nba first team 10 years in a row. Hes pretty much disregarded because of when he did it....even though nobody else on his level from those days gets that treatment.

10 time all NBA first, 2 mvps, a ring in dominant fashion, and 2 or 3 finals? Still has "So what" status. I kinda hav e to wonder how you put Dirk over him and dont just drop him out of the top 30-40 or maybe 50 all together. Cant post any resume to decide. And once you pretend his career doesnt matter....why does it matter in comparison to anyone else?

Seems like hes either top 15-20....or not even top 50. Too much has to be ignored to keep him from near the top to just start accepting that it happened in comparison to others. Either it counts or it doesnt.

Bob is never gonna get the credit he deserves though. Nothing new about that. The only 4 to come along and have a better career is Duncan but 4 or 5 of them get ranked over him anyway.

[noosaman]

Garnett and Lefraud are above Barry on the ISH list and neither are better...so why single out Dirk? The Dirk hate on here is mind boggling.

[iamgine]

Many would give him the edge due to the MVP with the ring and not just the ring. Which then makes you ask how he got past Bob Pettit who has a ring and two mvps and won his ring with a 50 point game his team needed all of. He was also all nba first team 10 years in a row. Hes pretty much disregarded because of when he did it....even though nobody else on his level from those days gets that treatment.

10 time all NBA first, 2 mvps, a ring in dominant fashion, and 2 or 3 finals? Still has "So what" status. I kinda hav e to wonder how you put Dirk over him and dont just drop him out of the top 30-40 or maybe 50 all together. Cant post any resume to decide. And once you pretend his career doesnt matter....why does it matter in comparison to anyone else?

Seems like hes either top 15-20....or not even top 50. Too much has to be ignored to keep him from near the top to just start accepting that it happened in comparison to others. Either it counts or it doesnt.

Bob is never gonna get the credit he deserves though. Nothing new about that. The only 4 to come along and have a better career is Duncan but 4 or 5 of them get ranked over him anyway.

Was Bob Pettit even as good as Walt Bellamy?

Pettit's absolute prime from 61-62 season to 63-64 season:

31.1 ppg - 18.7 rpg - 52.2 TS%
28.4 ppg - 15.1 rpg - 52.5 TS%
27.4 ppg - 15.3 rpg - 53.5 TS%

Bellamy's rookie season in 61-62 season to 63-64 season:

31.6 ppg - 19.0 rpg - 55.4 TS%
27.9 ppg - 16.4 rpg - 57.1 TS%
27.0 ppg - 17.0 rpg - 55.5 TS%

Too bad Bellamy had a bad team.

[swi7ch]

When he won the title.

[JMT]

:biggums:

http://media.onsugar.com/files/ons2/342/3425287/43_2009/0cc39315918c2933_rick_barry_allstar_prog.jpg

Not sure when or where I was when this happened. Was it after last years Finals or something?

Rick Barry has 9 all-nba/aba first teams and his team was much worse that he led to the Finals in 1975.

Barry was a better scorer, passer, slightly less rebounder being 6 inches shorter (Barry high is higher than Dirks ...) and were about as clutch.

This man is becoming underrated.

The lists always go to crap in the mid-teens. Dirk, Garnett; just plain overrated here. Not that they're terrible choices. Just that they're about ten slots too high.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Rick Barry has 9 all-nba/aba first teams and his team was much worse that he led to the Finals in 1975.

Barry was a better scorer, passer, slightly less rebounder being 6 inches shorter (Barry high is higher than Dirks ...) and were about as clutch.

For starters, the ABA awards are pretty much a joke.

Barry has 1 more first team all-nba than Dirk. Dirk has made the all-nba team 12 times (twice as many as Barry ever did.) Then start looking other accolades/numbers:

Dirk has more all-star game appareances.
Dirk has more career points.
Dirk has more career rebounds.
Barry played in 74 playoff games (Dirk has played in 128)
Dirk's playoff averages: 26/10/3 on 46/38/89 shooting... Barry's playoff averages: 25/6/5 on 43/25/88....

Dirk has better career numbers, more accolades, and is a better shooter and rebounder. The only thing Barry does better than him is pass and with Barry being a guard that isn't surprising.

(Dirk has a chance to have more all-nba awards than ANYONE in the league besides Kareem. He is 3 behind Kareem at the moment. Sure the all-nba 3rd team hasn't been around forever but it shows how truly **underated** Dirk is.... )

[JMT]

For starters, the ABA awards are pretty much a joke.

Barry has 1 more first team all-nba than Dirk. Dirk has made the all-nba team 12 times (twice as many as Barry ever did.) Then start looking other accolades:

Dirk has more all-star game appareances.
Dirk has more career points.
Dirk has more career rebounds.
Barry played in 74 playoff games (Dirk has played in 128)
Dirk's playoff averages: 26/10/3 on 46/38/89 shooting... Barry's playoff averages: 25/6/5 on 43/25/88....

Dirk has better career numbers, more accolades, and is a better shooter and rebounder. The only thing Barry does bnetter than him is pass and with Barry being a guard that isn't surprising.

For starters, you're pretty much wrong about the ABA awards. The upper echelon talent was evenly split between the two leagues. The depth wasn't there, but we're talking All league teams and MVP shares.

And you want to talk about meaningless awards but focus on All Star games? At least weren't popularity contests selected by know-nothing fans when Barry made them.

Dirk has played twice as many playoff games in large part because they let two to three times as many teams into the playoffs now. Fattening your playoff resume as a top seed vs a bottom feeder isn't that impressive. Of course, it should also be noted that Dirk is one of a small handful of stars ever to fail in that role.

Barry has the higher NBA scoring average as well and was considered among the best players in the game his entire career.

Nowitzki is a great player who belongs somewhere in the +/-30 range. Barry is a Top 20 all time.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

For starters, you're pretty much wrong about the ABA awards. The upper echelon talent was evenly split between the two leagues. The depth wasn't there, but we're talking All league teams and MVP shares. And all star games, while essentially meaningless, at least weren't popularity contests selected by know-nothing fans when Barry made them.

Let's be real as well. Dirk has never been "voted in" by the fans as an all-star. Not one time. So using that excuse is moot. Every single time Dirk has been an all-star he was "selected" and the one time he started was when it was in Dallas and Karl wanted him to have that honor.

As for the ABA awards/accomplishments being a joke. Yeah they are. The Hall doesn't even acknowledge them as on par with the NBA. Hence why guys like Artis Gilmore doesn't receive as much credit.


Dirk has played twice as many playoff games in large part because they let two to three times as many teams into the playoffs now. Fattening your playoff resume as a top seed vs a bottom feeder isn't that impressive. Of course, it should also be noted that Dirk is one of a small handful of stars ever to fail in that role.

Since 2000 Dirk hasn't failed to make the playoffs. Dirk has made the playoffs for 12 straight years. He has been to the Finals twice,. He has been to the WCFs three times. Barry failed to make it two years during his prime going to the playoffs 6 times. He made the Finals once and the WCFs three times.


Barry has the higher NBA scoring average as well and was considered among the best players in the game his entire career.

Nowitzki is a great player who belongs somewhere in the +/-30 range. Barry is a Top 20 all time.

He has the higher scoring average by .2 And let's be real as well. Dirk's rookie year he averaged 8 PPG thrown into that mix. And as far as ranking you have it backwards:

Barry belongs somewhere in the Top 30, and Dirk is Top 20.

[miles berg]

Cause he is flat out better. Just open your eyes. Dirk is one of the few legitimate franchise players in the last 20 years in the NBA and is easily the most underrated player on this forum.

[Raz]

I'd like to know when Dirk passed Havlicek.

There is no way anyone can convince me Dirk is a better, or more important player than Hondo

[JMT]

Let's be real as well. Dirk has never been "voted in" by the fans as an all-star. Not one time. So using that excuse is moot. Every single time Dirk has been an all-star he was "selected" and the one time he started was when it was in Dallas and Karl wanted him to have that honor.

As for the ABA awards/accomplishments being a joke. Yeah they are. The Hall doesn't even acknowledge them as on par with the NBA. Hence why guys like Artis Gilmore doesn't receive as much credit.

Since 2000 Dirk hasn't failed to make the playoffs. Dirk has made the playoffs for 12 straight years. He has been to the Finals twice,. He has been to the WCFs three times. Barry failed to make it two years during his prime going to the playoffs 6 times. He made the Finals once and the WCFs three times.

He has the higher scoring average by .2 And let's be real as well. Dirk's rookie year he averaged 8 PPG thrown into that mix. And as far as ranking you have it backwards:

Barry belongs somewhere in the Top 30, and Dirk is Top 20.

OK, so neither was ever voted onto an All Star team.

The HOF announced that ABA awards don't mean as much??? I missed that. You really want to hand pick one player and try to use that as proof the HOF doesn't acknowledge ABA awards? Foolishness. Again, the top talent in the ABA was ever bit as good, if not better, than the top talent in the NBA.

You can have it one way or the other. Playoffs are a team accomplishment, and individual stars don't get credit for the team accomplishment. Or it's all about the stars, and one of them laid about as big an egg as anyone ever has in the post season.

Barry's average is higher. Just a fact. And if you want to drop their worst year, take off his at the way tail end of his career, and the gap widens.

Nope, I've got it right. Saw the vast majority of both of their careers. Barry did more things on the floor and was a superstar from the time he entered the league. GREAT passer. Extremely athletic, leading run outs, often off his own rebound. Just a better, more versatile player.

[JellyBean]

I think that it boils down to a generational thing. I don't think that Dirk has ever passed Rick Barry. But I am in that 1970s-80s age demographic.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

OK, so neither was ever voted onto an All Star team.

The HOF announced that ABA awards don't mean as much??? I missed that. You really want to hand pick one player and try to use that as proof the HOF doesn't acknowledge ABA awards? Foolishness. Again, the top talent in the ABA was ever bit as good, if not better, than the top talent in the NBA.

The top talent may have been as good but the overall talent was not there. Not even close. And the ABA has always been a joke with the Hall in terms of accolades/accomplishments. Besides, Gilmore there is McGinnis and many others. It isn't about one person.


You can have it one way or the other. Playoffs are a team accomplishment, and individual stars don't get credit for the team accomplishment. Or it's all about the stars, and one of them laid about as big an egg as anyone ever has in the post season.

Sure they get credit for team accomplishments. Rings are a team accomplishments and players get that honor all the time. Both Barry and Dirk have one. Barry missed the playoffs 3 years during his NBA days. And you csan't have it both ways too. Saying that the reason Barry doesn't have many playoff games is because there weren't as many games and Dirk has more because the league is watered down, when Dirk NEVER missed the playoffs for 12 straight years. And Barry missed it 3 times.


Barry's average is higher. Just a fact. And if you want to drop their worst year, take off his at the way tail end of his career, and the gap widens.

Sure Barry's is a little higher. As you said it is fact. It is also fact that he played in a faster paced league with more possessions, more free flowing style, shot a less percentage and was less efficient to get that .2 more PPG.


Nope, I've got it right. Saw the vast majority of both of their careers. Barry did more things on the floor and was a superstar from the time he entered the league. GREAT passer. Extremely athletic, leading run outs, often off his own rebound. Just a better, more versatile player.

Well, most don't feel the way you do about the rankings... I'll just leave you with a Bill Simmons quote:

Dirk avoided the guillotine. We'll remember him as one of the 20 best basketball players of all time, the best European player ever, one of the best shooters ever, someone who came through when it mattered

[dunksby]

What's alarming is that OP's sole reason to compare the two is their skin color since Dirk is categorically better than Barry.

[L.Kizzle]

Was Bob Pettit even as good as Walt Bellamy?

Pettit's absolute prime from 61-62 season to 63-64 season:

31.1 ppg - 18.7 rpg - 52.2 TS%
28.4 ppg - 15.1 rpg - 52.5 TS%
27.4 ppg - 15.3 rpg - 53.5 TS%

Bellamy's rookie season in 61-62 season to 63-64 season:

31.6 ppg - 19.0 rpg - 55.4 TS%
27.9 ppg - 16.4 rpg - 57.1 TS%
27.0 ppg - 17.0 rpg - 55.5 TS%

Too bad Bellamy had a bad team.
Walt was no were close to Pettit.

If Pettit had the team Walt had, he'd average 40+. Pettit was gettin these numbers with other hall of famers Lenny Wilkens, Cliff Hagan and Clyde Lovellette on his squad

[BlackVVaves]

Many would give him the edge due to the MVP with the ring and not just the ring. Which then makes you ask how he got past Bob Pettit who has a ring and two mvps and won his ring with a 50 point game his team needed all of. He was also all nba first team 10 years in a row. Hes pretty much disregarded because of when he did it....even though nobody else on his level from those days gets that treatment.

10 time all NBA first, 2 mvps, a ring in dominant fashion, and 2 or 3 finals? Still has "So what" status. I kinda hav e to wonder how you put Dirk over him and dont just drop him out of the top 30-40 or maybe 50 all together. Cant post any resume to decide. And once you pretend his career doesnt matter....why does it matter in comparison to anyone else?

Seems like hes either top 15-20....or not even top 50. Too much has to be ignored to keep him from near the top to just start accepting that it happened in comparison to others. Either it counts or it doesnt.

Bob is never gonna get the credit he deserves though. Nothing new about that. The only 4 to come along and have a better career is Duncan but 4 or 5 of them get ranked over him anyway.

This X infinity.

[bizil]

It's no lock Dirk passed Barry by. U could certainly make a great argument for it though. Peak value wise, many would actually take Barry over Dirk. Dirk causes more matchup nightmares. But Barry can dominate scoring in a fashion just as good or even better than Dirk. Barry also had point forward skills, is a better defender, and was a damn good rebounder given his size. It's hard to compared bigs to perimeter guys at times. U could go either way GOAT wise with these two as of now. And before its said and done, Dirk will most likely pass Barry by anyway.

[MiamiThrice]

1975 title? The 70s suck. Horsecock Nowitzki upset the

-Two time defending champ Lakers who were heavily favored. And not just upset. SWEPT!
-OKC Durant/Westbrook Thunder
-LeBron/Wade/Bosh Heat

All with Jason Terry and Tyson Chandler as his best players.

Not to mention this guy has been relevant for what seems like forever now. Barry had a few good years, but Dirk has been the face of a dominant franchise for nearly 15 ****ing years. He has upset many times with inferior casts in his career and has proven to be one of the best leaders this game has ever seen. Truth be told, Barrys own teammates didn't even like him.

And another reason is that a lot of Barrys accomplishments happened in the ABA which noone cares about. If ABA was taken into consideration Dr. J would be top 5 on most all-time lists.

[L.Kizzle]

1975 title? The 70s suck. Horsecock Nowitzki upset the

-Two time defending champ Lakers who were heavily favored. And not just upset. SWEPT!
-OKC Durant/Westbrook Thunder
-LeBron/Wade/Bosh Heat

All with Jason Terry and Tyson Chandler as his best players.

Not to mention this guy has been relevant for what seems like forever now. Barry had a few good years, but Dirk has been the face of a dominant franchise for nearly 15 ****ing years. He has upset many times with inferior casts in his career and has proven to be one of the best leaders this game has ever seen. Truth be told, Barrys own teammates didn't even like him.

And another reason is that a lot of Barrys accomplishments happened in the ABA which noone cares about. If ABA was taken into consideration Dr. J would be top 5 on most all-time lists.
The 70 suck, doesn't matter. Look who he beat, the heavily favored Bullets with Hayes, Unseld, Chanier (not sure if Dave Bing was here yet?)

And lol at a few good years. You can't say Dirk was the face of the franchise when Finley was making All-Star teams over him in 2000 and 2001.

And lol at a lot of his shine coming in the ABA, he played 4 seasons there and was probably the best player in the league. HE avg 34 points per game, more tan Dr. J in the league.

Jordan's teammates didn't like him either.

[MiamiThrice]

The 70 suck, doesn't matter. Look who he beat, the heavily favored Bullets with Hayes, Unseld, Chanier (not sure if Dave Bing was here yet?)

And lol at a few good years. You can't say Dirk was the face of the franchise when Finley was making All-Star teams over him in 2000 and 2001.

And lol at a lot of his shine coming in the ABA, he played 4 seasons there and was probably the best player in the league. HE avg 34 points per game, more tan Dr. J in the league.

Jordan's teammates didn't like him either.

Dude your bragging about some dude beating the Wizards one of the most irrelevant franchises in not just the NBA, but ALL of sports. Horsecock Nowitzki beat Kobe, Durant, AND LeBron all back to back. He did it with inferior casts to all of them too and this was during their primes.

The Mavericks are a product of Dirk, Dirk is not a product of the Mavericks. You might not know this, but before Dirk the Mavericks were one of those teams like the Bobcats/Wizards/Hornets/Hawks/Timberwolves that noone gives a **** about and sees them on the schedule knowing it's a free win. Before 2001(which is when Dirk became the leading scorer) Dallas hadn't made the playoffs in 10 years. As soon as Dirk was given the drivers seat Dallas took off winning 53 games and even advancing in the playoffs right off the bat.

The ABA certainly hurts Barry's ranking. That's 4 years of his prime that noone gives a **** about because it's the ABA.

Barry played 6 years for the Warriors before his corpse rotted away in Houston. Not nearly the longevity of a player like Horsecock Nowitzki

[G.O.A.T]

Was Bob Pettit even as good as Walt Bellamy?

Pettit's absolute prime from 61-62 season to 63-64 season:

31.1 ppg - 18.7 rpg - 52.2 TS%
28.4 ppg - 15.1 rpg - 52.5 TS%
27.4 ppg - 15.3 rpg - 53.5 TS%

Bellamy's rookie season in 61-62 season to 63-64 season:

31.6 ppg - 19.0 rpg - 55.4 TS%
27.9 ppg - 16.4 rpg - 57.1 TS%
27.0 ppg - 17.0 rpg - 55.5 TS%

Too bad Bellamy had a bad team.

1962-1964 were certainly not Bob Pettit's prime. They were the twilight of his career. You're just looking at the raw numbers and not accounting for the exponential rise in pace that occurred during that part of the 60's. 1962 was and still is the season where teams played at the fastest pass. The most shots were taken and the most rebounds were available. However from 1956-1961 Pettit won two MVP's, reached the finals four times and led the Hawks to the 1958 title with a 50-point performance in the closeout game.

During your suggested prime of 62-64 Pettit was never in the top three in rebounding (though always close), during what I believe is his prime, he was never outside the top three. He won two scoring titles in my suggested prime. Never better than third from 62-'64.

As for Bellamy, the fact that he was on a bad team, and that it was 1962 of course is the only reason he put those numbers up. Later in his career we got to see what happened when Bellamy was on a talented roster. He was the Knicks center (with Willis Reed at PF) in 1968-1969 before he was traded for Dave DeBusschere. The Knicks got instantly better and won two titles with DeBusschere in the next four seasons. Bellamy continued to put up empty numbers where ever he went with little to no team success.

[Whoah10115]

(9 to Dirks three. Dirk has one more than Tracy McGrady)




Dirk has 4: 04/05, 05/06, 06/07, 08/09.

[eliteballer]

He hasn't.

[jongib369]

http://oi44.tinypic.com/ayprnl.jpg

http://youtu.be/_k1ZM_K5L8g

[CavaliersFTW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVtzhmRzotI

[CavaliersFTW]

As far as the MVP, Barry was robbed of the MVP in '75 because no one liked him.

And I mean that literally.
Rick Barry never had a filter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeDnT4pxr0U

Also there used to be a clip on Youtube where he was color commentating with Bill Russell and he had the crew bring up old photos of Bill Russell with a beer in his hands and a huge smile and Russell was PISSED (I think he cared greatly about his image and clearly did not like drinking connected to his name) - on top of it Barry called Russell's smile a 'Watermelon eating grin' I swear I'm not making this up he actually said that - the YT clip appears to have been removed cause I can't find it anymore, one of the most awkward broadcasting moments I've ever seen :oldlol:

[jongib369]

Rick Barry never had a filter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeDnT4pxr0U

Also there used to be a clip on Youtube where he was color commentating with Bill Russell and he had the crew bring up old photos of Bill Russell with a beer in his hands and a huge smile and Russell was PISSED (I think he cared greatly about his image and clearly did not like drinking connected to his name) - on top of it Barry called Russell's smile a 'Watermelon eating grin' I swear I'm not making this up he actually said that - the YT clip appears to have been removed cause I can't find it anymore, one of the most awkward broadcasting moments I've ever seen :oldlol:
Lmao that seriously was awkward....And to think that not long before Wilt was being roasted and told that he bought a certain car because the glove box could fit his watermelons...And everyone laughed....So did Wilt but he looked a little pissed if I'm not mistaken

[eklip]

Dirk's playoff stats:
25.9 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 2.6 apg, .584 TS%

Rick Barry in NBA:
24.8 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.6 apg, .486 TS% (horrible)

Why is there even a discussion?

[DMAVS41]

Dirk's playoff stats:
25.9 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 2.6 apg, .584 TS%

Rick Barry in NBA:
24.8 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.6 apg, .486 TS% (horrible)

Why is there even a discussion?

Stats don't tell the whole story here.

Barry also had a 52% TS if you combine his ABA play.

I agree that Dirk should rank higher, but Barry was a great player.