I told my 10 year old son he's too young to know/understand Jesus Christ.

[Riddler]

I'm 32... When I was growing up as a child my parents never forced any religion on me... They "almost" never took me church.



I'll try to make this thread short and simple.

I believe that Jesus is the son of God... I believe in a need for salvation because of the sins I've committed.

But I'm never going to tell a young innocent child that he needs Jesus Christ.
I figure I'll let Jesus come into his life the same way he came into mine...


Who the f*ck am I to tell a 10 year old boy about the need for Salvation?
In my opinion... those children need grow up and discover Christ on their own...




Bottom Line
__________


I'm starting to understand why Christians get a bad a reputation... It's because most Christians force feed the gospel
to their children instead of letting their children discover the gospel on their own.


(i love youtube)

Let my youtube video... speak for it's self.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PeyiU3uWJ8


I'm trying real hard to be the Shepard.

[miller-time]

if you truly believe it then who are you to not tell him?

[Riddler]

if you truly believe it then who are you to not tell him?

I introduced Christ to him... but I still told him he's too young to understand his purpose.

And I honestly believe that... Before you understand why Christ died... you must understand the true nature of sin first... Children don't understand what sin is at the age of 10....

[C-Webb4]

I introduced Christ to him... but I still told him he's too young to understand his purpose.

And I honestly believe that... Before you understand why Christ died... you must understand the true nature of sin first... Children don't understand what sin is at the age of 10....
I'm kind of borderline agnostic... But if I was a full out believer in JC and I had a 10 year old son, rather than tell him he's too young to understand him... i'd do my best to educate him and let him make his own choices. I'd rather he know what I know and be able to learn for himself that way rather than saying "ok he's only 10 now, so i'd rather let him go through the paths I went down to get there so that he can understand what sin is.

[Lebowsky]

How is he too young? There is nothing to understand about religion, it's all about irrational belief. Kids usually get indoctrinated at a young age, don't they?

[miller-time]

I introduced Christ to him... but I still told him he's too young to understand his purpose.

And I honestly believe that... Before you understand why Christ died... you must understand the true nature of sin first... Children don't understand what sin is at the age of 10....

even though i'm not a christian, i would have to say that experience is as important as the bible itself. it annoys me when christians (usually the more fundamentalist kinds) say the bible comes first. it doesn't make sense to me because you have to have actual experience to understand the bible in the first place.

[Rolando]

I'm 32... When I was growing up as a child my parents never forced any religion on me... They "almost" never took me church.



I'll try to make this thread short and simple.

I believe that Jesus is the son of God... I believe in a need for salvation because of the sins I've committed.

But I'm never going to tell a young innocent child that he needs Jesus Christ.
I figure I'll let Jesus come into his life the same way he came into mine...


Who the f*ck am I to tell a 10 year old boy about the need for Salvation?
In my opinion... those children need grow up and discover Christ on their own...




Bottom Line
__________


I'm starting to understand why Christians get a bad a reputation... It's because most Christians force feed the gospel
to their children instead of letting their children discover the gospel on their own.


(i love youtube)

Let my youtube video... speak for it's self.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PeyiU3uWJ8


I'm trying real hard to be the Shepard.

Repped. You are a good father.

Although I am not at all a believer, I do the same with my daughter. It is up to her. I'm not going to force my Athiest philosophy on her. People got to find thier own way and thier own happiness and understanding.

[iamgine]

I introduced Christ to him... but I still told him he's too young to understand his purpose.

And I honestly believe that... Before you understand why Christ died... you must understand the true nature of sin first... Children don't understand what sin is at the age of 10....
Isn't sin simply deliberately going against the will of God? Why couldn't children understand that? The analogy is like if he disobey you.

[Riddler]

I'd rather he know what I know



You had very good post... but this is where you f*cked up.

[Riddler]

Repped. You are a good father.

Although I am not at all a believer, I do the same with my daughter. It is up to her. I'm not going to force my Athiest philosophy on her. People got to find thier own way and thier own happiness and understanding.



This...

thank you for your post.

[C-Webb4]

You had very good post... but this is where you f*cked up.
What, because he's 10 he's too dumb to know Jesus? Is that what you're saying? :oldlol: You're acting like 10 is 3. In 2012 i'm sure he already knows about drugs, sex, foul language, learned all kinds of shit in school, etc etc.... but Jesus is too complicated for him?

[TheSilentKiller]

I think you are doing a smart thing. Letting a child figure out their spirituality on their own can play a very big role in their development.

[Riddler]

What, because he's 10 he's too dumb to know Jesus? Is that what you're saying? :oldlol: You're acting like 10 is 3. In 2012 i'm sure he already knows about drugs, sex, foul language, learned all kinds of shit in school, etc etc.... but Jesus is too complicated for him?


I like this post....


you have a good point...



but the question is... What did my 10 year old son do for the need salvation?


He is Innocent !!!!!!!!!!!

[Riddler]

I think you are doing a smart thing. Letting a child figure out their spirituality on their own can play a very big role in their development.



+1

[LJJ]

How is he too young? There is nothing to understand about religion, it's all about irrational belief. Kids usually get indoctrinated at a young age, don't they?

He just feels his child is too young and should make his own choices.

Next he is going to tell his kid there are thousands of religions in the world and nearly all of them say you will suffer horrible eternal punishment in the afterlife if you are a kind human being but worship a different religion. "So you better make the right choice son!"

[lilbeastnani]

I like this post....


you have a good point...



but the question is... What did my 10 year old son do for the need salvation?


He is Innocent !!!!!!!!!!!
I don't know what your religion is other than belief in Jesus. My parents are christian, and in the church I went to growing up they basically showed us in the Bible where it said we were born into sin and therefore prone to be sinners by nature. So a boy of 10 definitely would be old enough to have sinned if you believe in sin that is. You'd be crazy/in denial to think otherwise.

[Riddler]

He just feels his child is too young and should make his own choices.

Next he is going to tell his kid there are thousands of religions in the world and nearly all of them say you will suffer horrible eternal punishment in the afterlife if you are a kind human being but worship a different religion. "So you better make the right choice son!"



C'mon.... LJJ.... you are better than that.

[Riddler]

So a boy of 10 definitely would be old enough to have sinned if you believe in sin that is. You'd be crazy/in denial to think otherwise.



I love your post too...

My 10 year old son is a sinner....


But he is still too young to understand the nature of sin..... right?

[lilbeastnani]

I love your post too...

My 10 year old son is a sinner....


But he is still too young to understand the nature of sin..... right?
I'm trying to understand... What you're saying is that he's not a sinner when he sins because he's too young to understand what sinning is?

[Riddler]

I don't know what your religion is other than belief in Jesus. My parents are christian, and in the church I went to growing up they basically showed us in the Bible where it said we were born into sin and therefore prone to be sinners by nature. So a boy of 10 definitely would be old enough to have sinned if you believe in sin that is. You'd be crazy/in denial to think otherwise.




GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DaHeezy]

My son is 7. He's been going to church since he's been born. To truly accept Christ as your redeemer you have to go through baptism. You can go to church, it's up to you to accpet Christ.
I've been to this church for 12 years now and have seen children grow up and leave the church. It's up to them to choose their paths. A solid church knows this. They may try to lead their flock, but to accept christ is a personal decision.
You start going to school when you're 5. Not every kid is going to grow up a historian, but they do teach you history. Same with every subject. In essence the Bible is like history and science. Why not get your kid to study it while he's that age? It may not persuad him to lean towards Christianity but he'll learn values.

[lilbeastnani]

My son is 7. He's been going to church since he's been born. To truly accept Christ as your redeemer you have to go through baptism. You can go to church, it's up to you to accpet Christ.
I've been to this church for 12 years now and have seen children grow up and leave the church. It's up to them to choose their paths. A solid church knows this. They may try to lead their flock, but to accept christ is a personal decision.
You start going to school when you're 5. Not every kid is going to grow up a historian, but they do teach you history. Same with every subject. In essence the Bible is like history and science. Why not get your kid to study it while he's that age? It may not persuad him to lean towards Christianity but he'll learn values.
I completely agree to that. There's a difference between teaching them things in the Bible/things about Jesus and forcefeeding it down their throat and telling them they must believe in it or else. Kids are taught of the big bang theory in school, but it's called a theory for a reason. Nobody is forcing them to believe in it, it's just being educated on what's out there. Same with Jesus and creation. Putting it out there for him to learn about isn't the same as backing him into a corner and saying pick Jesus or you'll burn in hell forever.

[rufuspaul]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/rufuspaul/IMG_0877.jpg

[Riddler]

I'm trying to understand... What you're saying is that he's not a sinner when he sins because he's too young to understand what sinning is?



Yes.



good post.

[po3try]

I like this post....


you have a good point...



but the question is... What did my 10 year old son do for the need salvation?


He is Innocent !!!!!!!!!!!

Better question is, what did your 10 year old son do to not be introduced & educated about the religion in order to maybe find, live & know the right path so he doesnt have to sin and need that type of salvation first of all?

"Yea, i am gona do some evil shit first and then seek salvation, maybe then i will find God/Jesus and act like he will forgive me, if it works in movies it will work for me."

[Balla_Status]

My son is 7. He's been going to church since he's been born. To truly accept Christ as your redeemer you have to go through baptism. You can go to church, it's up to you to accpet Christ.
I've been to this church for 12 years now and have seen children grow up and leave the church. It's up to them to choose their paths. A solid church knows this. They may try to lead their flock, but to accept christ is a personal decision.
You start going to school when you're 5. Not every kid is going to grow up a historian, but they do teach you history. Same with every subject. In essence the Bible is like history and science. Why not get your kid to study it while he's that age? It may not persuad him to lean towards Christianity but he'll learn values.

Pretty much what happened to me. Left the church when I turned 18. Dad came to wake me up in my room and I told him I don't want to go. "Alright."

That was that. Hated going to church and decided I'll just chill for awhile.

[Rojogaqu11]

Well, every child develops at a different rate. As a parent, it's very important to identify a child's level of experience and understanding before touching on a subject. A kid may seem too young for many situations or choices, but in a modern world where so much information is being bombarded at the minds of children, through media or daily life, a kid may be aware of many more subjects than in past generations.

In these days, it's very hard to completely control the environment and influences that will mold a child's mind from early age. Because of this, it's my opinion, that in general, it's never too early to introduce a subject that matters or is of great consequence for the future of children.

In general, children will be aware of many realities of life at an early age. Topics such as sickness, pain, obedience and disobedience, cost and consequences, reward and punishment, effort, skill, strength, hunger, etc. are obviously not fully understood by small children, but they are very aware of them. Even subjects such as injustice, greed, mental instability, violence, instinct and reason, laws and authorities, addiction, observable and hidden realities, and life and death, are interpreted in some way or another in a child's understanding.

This is why I believe that it's the parent's obligation to guide that interpretation in a child's mind, at least when they are fully dependent. The moral structure of parents should be reproduced unto their child from the earliest age possible. And because religion, in a sense, is just the source of an individual's moral identity, it should be not only modeled (if in fact, a parent is convinced of its claims) but also reasoned and shared, to at least, present the reasons of that life choice.

At the end, I guess it's just a matter of personal conviction and sense of duty. Does it affect more to test a child's understanding with these conversations, or to wait until he or she "learns" from personal experience and/or displays the degree of awareness that a parent considers appropriate or measurable?

[Nick Young]

Christianity is basically just a corrupted form of Judaism. To me it is sad that Christianity is currently the largest religion in the world, simply because Byzantine leaders in the year 400 decided it should be.

Jesus Christ is one of a long long line of false messiahs. For another very similar to Jesus, look at Rabbi Akiva ben Joseph. He too had his own religious following and there were hundreds of others exactly like him and Jesus. Jesus just lucked out when the romans chose him to be their figurehead religion.

So yeah, your son probably wouldnt understand all that.

It really is a shame that the whole world is following this conglomeration religion fabricated by a bunch of roman guys, and not one of the older religions that grew organically.

[sunsfan1357]

I like this post....


you have a good point...



but the question is... What did my 10 year old son do for the need salvation?


He is Innocent !!!!!!!!!!!

You don't believe in original sin?

[Nick Young]

If Jesus is the messiah and son of god, why hasnt he brought messiah yet? In the prophecies it says the messiah will bring about a golden age in his own life time.

Christianity and catholocism and all their other little offshoots seem to be based entirely around making excuses for Jesus' failure as a false messiah, coming up with little excuses and apologies and made up resseurections to try to justify his failure.

[Dwade305]

The world's one big fuc*king addiction. He'll learn soon.

[macmac]

This thread reminds me Herman Hesse's Damien. You should read that book it's a great look into the mind of a boy hitting adolescence and the truths and notions that he begins to question

[DonDadda59]

I can respect that. From my experience, most people of 'faith' don't even know the first thing about what they believe in. They just know that they're [enter religion here] and they live their life according to [enter religious doctrine here] even though they've never cracked open the book their whole belief system is based on. I respect someone who waits until they're mature, with life experience who takes the time to formulate their belief and looks at the whole story without blinders on.

Most people are indoctrinated and that can make for a very close-minded and ignorant society. So I can only applaud you not forcing your beliefs on your child and letting him make his own decisions when he is mature enough.:applause:

[Nick Young]

One thing I really dislike about Christianity is that the Old Testament was written to be interpreted as metaphor and allegory, not literal truth, and on top of that the language it is written in gives many words and stories multiple meanings.

And yet, Christians take this book of allegories and metaphors, translate it to other languages, get it badly wrong and then decide to interpret the whole thing as literal. I'm sorry but if you look at the history of Christianity, the whole thing reeks of failure and ignorance, even going back to the very beginning.

It's like their whole religion is based of misinterpreting a bad translation of another religion's holy book.

Of course no Christian will want to hear this.

But then again, Christianity is the biggest religion in the world nowadays. Guess that says alot about people.

[DonDadda59]

If Jesus is the messiah and son of god, why hasnt he brought messiah yet? In the prophecies it says the messiah will bring about a golden age in his own life time.

Christianity and catholocism and all their other little offshoots seem to be based entirely around making excuses for Jesus' failure as a false messiah, coming up with little excuses and apologies and made up resseurections to try to justify his failure.

because the guy the mythical jesus was based on was probably just another in a long line of failed jewish messiahs from that time. The difference with him was that his followers were zealots and even his death didn't stop them from belieiving he'd come back from the dead to fulfill the prophecies. Plus roman imperial intervention helped to keep the cult alive and spread it throughout the world. But that's a subject for another thread. We're here to offer parenting advice to dooms.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Yea, you should get his brain primed with a couple of other make believe fantasy stories before you hop straight to Jesus Christ.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Yea, you should get his brain primed with a couple of other make believe fantasy stories before you hop straight to Jesus Christ.


This guy has no clue ^^^

Get a life!!!!

[Rasheed1]

In the long run? things will work out much better for everyone if you make it a habit to tell your children the truth

[Patrick Chewing]

If you believe in Jesus Christ as our lord and savior which he is, then I see nothing wrong with telling your child about that. There are far more talks of atheism and anti-religious rhetoric out there that may pollute his mind first.

Now is as good a time as any.

[Nick Young]

If you believe in Jesus Christ as our lord and savior which he is, then I see nothing wrong with telling your child about that. There are far more talks of atheism and anti-religious rhetoric out there that may pollute his mind first.

Now is as good a time as any.
Who has Jesus 'saved'? When is the messiah coming? What makes him different from the hundreds of other false Jewish messiahs that were his contemporaries?

[Patrick Chewing]

Who has Jesus 'saved'? When is the messiah coming? What makes him different from the hundreds of other false Jewish messiahs that were his contemporaries?

Are you expecting a Jesus wearing a Coast Guard uniform plucking people out of the sea?? No, young buck. You ever ask yourself, what failed from all his other "contemporaries"?? Why are we not talking about them?

Jesus saved by delivering the word of God.

[Riddler]

You don't believe in original sin?


of course I do... but I don't believe my 10 year old son will ever understand the concept of original sin.... thus making him innocent.

[Nick Young]

You ever ask yourself, what failed from all his other "contemporaries"?? Why are we not talking about them?

Jesus saved by delivering the word of God.
Many of them are still talked about and regarded as great sages in the Jewish and Muslim world.

The only reason we aren't talking about them is because Jesus was chosen in the Council of Nicea to be the Roman churchs new figurehead. They spent the rest of the council figuring out ways to make him more popular to the rest of the world, ie cutting out parts they didn't like, adding new myths and stories about him and adding pagan holidays like Christmas and Easter into the new Christian religion.

You have blind faith in a religion created entirely by a bunch of old roman marketing execs 300 years after the historical Jesus died.

Do you know anything about Christian history? Did you read any books in the bible?:confusedshrug:

[lilbeastnani]

of course I do... but I don't believe my 10 year old son will ever understand the concept of original sin.... thus making him innocent.
I'm not sure if I understand the concept of original sin, am I innocent too?

[Stuckey]

I never thought Riddler was a father

I'm never taking my child to church, he should know right from wrong in his heart, otherwise I'd take him to a psychiatrist

[Riddler]

I never thought Riddler was a father

I'm never taking my child to church, he should know right from wrong in his heart, otherwise I'd take him to a psychiatrist




I respect this post.

[Rasheed1]

I never thought Riddler was a father

I'm never taking my child to church, he should know right from wrong in his heart, otherwise I'd take him to a psychiatrist


you cant just leave it up to your 'child's heart'... Without proper upbringing, his 'heart' will tell him to follow his emotions, and that is a big reason that soo many people do dumb things. They allow their emotions to control their actions.

One thing I have learned is that if you dont control your emotions? your emotions will control your life, and thats a roller coaster ride that people dont need.

[Riddler]

I'm not sure if I understand the concept of original sin, am I innocent too?




According to the Bible you are born with a Consciousness


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness

[Riddler]

you cant just leave it up to your 'child's heart'... Without proper upbringing, his 'heart' will tell him to follow his emotions, and that is a big reason that soo many people do dumb things. They allow their emotions to control their actions.

One thing I have learned is that if you dont control your emotions? your emotions will control your life, and thats a roller coaster ride that people dont need.


good post.

[macmac]

I'm not sure if I understand the concept of original sin, am I innocent too?

No i'm pretty sure that just makes you ignorant

[Godzuki]

yea i think Christianity and Republicanism are the most passed down ideas from parents to kid in America today where the kid has no idea why, more than his parents brainwashed him to believe in them since they were little. I swear its so consistent amongst younger people i meet who are religious/republican.

[lilbeastnani]

According to the Bible you are born with a Consciousness


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness
So your son was born without consciousness? NICE! :cheers:

[rufuspaul]

yea i think Christianity and Republicanism are the most passed down ideas from parents to kid in America today where the kid has no idea why, more than his parents brainwashed him to believe in them since they were little. I swear its so consistent amongst younger people i meet who are religious/republican.


Oh believe me, liberal/agnostic views can be just as easily passed down from parents to children. My cousin lives in Berkeley,CA and listening to his kids you'd think their father was Karl Marx.

[lilbeastnani]

Ok, so i'm done playing this game because i'm actually educated on the subject, I was just playing along so that I could see where you get your facts from and your personal stances but you haven't given many of those.

There's a belief called "age of accountability" which I assume you are following whether intentionally or unintentionally believe that a young child is innocent before the eyes of God because he or she does not understand the concept of sin and good and evil. This is partially true, but there is no documented age of accountability and as someone said previously in this thread it's up to you to know your child and to know where they are in those regards rather than just to say "he wouldn't understand on the basis of him being 10 years old." As someone else said earlier in that really thoughtful post, this is a day and age where you'd be surprised what the average kid get's exposed to and how the learning curve on some serious world issues is much more advanced than it used to be.

Here's some more info that supports these sentiments:
http://www.gotquestions.org/age-of-accountability.html


The concept of the "age of accountability" is that children are not held accountable by God for their sins until they reach a certain age, and that if a child dies before reaching the "age of accountability,' that child will, by the grace and mercy of God, be granted entrance into Heaven. Is the concept of an age of accountability biblical? Is there such a thing as an "age of innocence"?

Frequently lost in the discussion regarding the age of accountability is the fact that children, no matter how young, are not “innocent” in the sense of being sinless. The Bible tells us that even if an infant or child has not committed personal sin, all people, including infants and children, are guilty before God because of inherited and imputed sin. Inherited sin is that which is passed on from our parents. In Psalm 51:5 , David wrote, “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.” David recognized that even at conception, he was a sinner. The very sad fact that infants sometimes die demonstrates that even infants are impacted by Adam’s sin, since physical and spiritual death were the results of Adam's original sin.
Each person, infant or adult, stands guilty before God; each person has offended the holiness of God. The only way God can be just and at the same time declare a person righteous is for that person to have received forgiveness by faith in Christ.



What about babies and young children who never reach the ability to make this individual choice? The age of accountability is a concept that teaches those who die before reaching the age of accountability are automatically saved, by God’s grace and mercy. The age of accountability is a belief that God saves all those who die before reaching the ability to make a decision for or against Christ. Thirteen is the most common number given for the age of accountability, based on the Jewish custom that a child becomes an adult at the age of 13. However, the Bible gives no direct support to the age of 13 always being the age of accountability. It likely varies from child to child. A child has passed the age of accountability once he or she is capable of making a faith decision for or against Christ.

So while I do see your point, it's not really as cut and dry of a situation as you make it seem.

[Godzuki]

Oh believe me, liberal/agnostic views can be just as easily passed down from parents to children. My cousin lives in Berkeley,CA and listening to his kids you'd think their father was Karl Marx.


i don't really agree with that at all. definitely not the agnostic views being passed down since there aren't even many people who are fervently agnostic, and definitely not as wearing it on their sleeve everywhere as Christians. i don't see how that can be common or even passed down in general since its not something a parent, generally speaking, would put above everything else to teach their kid. Most agnostics would probably be indifferent if their kid found religion or not. It'd probably be very similar to the approach the OP of thsi thread is taking.

as for Liberals i'm sure there is some of that but i don't think its as common as Republican ideals being passed down. I think a lot of people become liberal through issues like abortion(females), global warming(tree huggers), and basically through education. Education tends to contradict a lot of Republican ideals like the more you learn of science the less you'll likely become so religious, or take the opinion of scientists over politicians. People who want to have it both ways between Christianity/science aren't realistic, more than making up their own realities to fit them both in whichever way they can.

Either way i don't think agnostic/liberalism parallel passing down Christianity or Republicanism mainly due to how passionate and traditional Christianity/Republican generations of families are, and how passionate/zealous they are about those thoughts. I think there is a lot more freedom of thought through a persons own experiences/education a liberal would have regarding how their child is raised. that whole idea is actually being 'liberal'...also i see it so often where someone arguing on forums, rl, etc. that is young and takes very right wing POV's generally will talk about what their father says, and i'd swear its a very common basis.

[Overdrive]

I think if you're that openminded to say you don't want to "brainwash" your kid, until you think he'll make his own decisions about spirituality, you should also educate yourself on other religious believes or even nonbelieves, so you can present the various options to your son, when you think he's old enough to get some input from you.

[DonDadda59]

Many of them are still talked about and regarded as great sages in the Jewish and Muslim world.

The only reason we aren't talking about them is because Jesus was chosen in the Council of Nicea to be the Roman churchs new figurehead. They spent the rest of the council figuring out ways to make him more popular to the rest of the world, ie cutting out parts they didn't like, adding new myths and stories about him and adding pagan holidays like Christmas and Easter into the new Christian religion.

You have blind faith in a religion created entirely by a bunch of old roman marketing execs 300 years after the historical Jesus died.

Do you know anything about Christian history? Did you read any books in the bible?:confusedshrug:

This in a nutshell.

It always amuses me when people don't even know the basics of what they cling to so dearly. 'Jesus' and Christianity as we know it today (specifically Catholicism and its offspring) is nothing more than a creation by the Emperor Constantine and his minions that was designed with the sole purpose of controlling the masses by synthesizing the core of the differing religious schools of the time (Paganism and Jewish messianic monotheism) and turning it into a 'new' religion, with him at the head of the church as the Pontifex Maximus (the term used by the pope till this day). He did the same exact thing that Ptolemy Soter (Alexander the Great's general who inherited Egypt and faced the same problem with too many differing religions) did with the God Serapis, sometimes called Serapis Christus.

http://mlkshk.com/r/2HUV

[MMM]

As a muslim I believe that Jesus is the messiah and i believe in the miracle of his birth but I have trouble understanding Jesus being the son of God.

[Nick Young]

Yes being the son of god means atleast two gods IE PAGANISM. Christianity is full of holes and paradoxes that make no sense but there are ten thousand excuses and explanations for. The worship of saints IE patron saint of animals, patron saint of travelers etc is basically paganism as well.

[Math2]

I'm 32... When I was growing up as a child my parents never forced any religion on me... They "almost" never took me church.



I'll try to make this thread short and simple.

I believe that Jesus is the son of God... I believe in a need for salvation because of the sins I've committed.

But I'm never going to tell a young innocent child that he needs Jesus Christ.
I figure I'll let Jesus come into his life the same way he came into mine...


Who the f*ck am I to tell a 10 year old boy about the need for Salvation?
In my opinion... those children need grow up and discover Christ on their own...




Bottom Line
__________


I'm starting to understand why Christians get a bad a reputation... It's because most Christians force feed the gospel
to their children instead of letting their children discover the gospel on their own.


(i love youtube)

Let my youtube video... speak for it's self.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PeyiU3uWJ8


I'm trying real hard to be the Shepard.

All religions try to force their "truth" on people, I personally hate the way Christians do it (not really now, but in the Medieval age) because they would take things from each religion to try to make it more familiar, like a mix and match to get people to join.

[DaHeezy]

Any thoughts to my comment? You seemed to have dodged it

[brantonli]

I completely agree to that. There's a difference between teaching them things in the Bible/things about Jesus and forcefeeding it down their throat and telling them they must believe in it or else. Kids are taught of the big bang theory in school, but it's called a theory for a reason. Nobody is forcing them to believe in it, it's just being educated on what's out there. Same with Jesus and creation. Putting it out there for him to learn about isn't the same as backing him into a corner and saying pick Jesus or you'll burn in hell forever.

Just want to check something, do you think there's any difference between a 'theory' and a 'scientific theory'?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Atheists make me sick. I almost feel bad for them.

[TheGreatBlaze]

You're never too young to know the Savior. In fact, the younger the better :no:

[SilkkTheShocker]

You're never too young to know the Savior. In fact, the younger the better :no:
This.

[millwad]

Atheists make me sick. I almost feel bad for them.

Why is that?
I don't believe in god and I just moved to the US due having my exchange year here. I've realized that americans are very intolerant toward atheist..

[Overdrive]

Atheists make me sick. I almost feel bad for them.

Why, because I don't believe in rotting in hell for absurd stuff?
I treat every human being I meet without prejudice, something alot christians fail to do - obviously including you.

[Rojogaqu11]

Why the shift toward attacking personal faith?

I thought this thread was about the OP's concern for his son, and his decision to withhold information from his son until he thinks of a more opportune time.

Anyone can go wiki all those theories, the so-called conspiracies of organized religion, etc. Why don't we focus on the topic at hand?

If anyone wants to contest a particular religion's historical evidence, let him choose the right topic for that discussion, instead of deviating the topic with irrelevant and baseless assertions.

And anyways... whoever came to persuade the OP towards atheism, skepticism, agnosticism, intellectualism, etc. came in fact to do that which is being criticized: the preaching of personal beliefs to others. So by postulating himself as an opposition to "indoctrination", he falls in the same category that he tries to criticize, and rather ironically, becomes an evangelist.

All persons, no matter their type of belief, have a measure of faith. We all take for granted many things in life, therefore we have faith that those things retain a particular order that assure us of their state. Call it "trust" or "hope", and we all interpret from general axioms that in themselves reveal the measure of faith within every individual, that we so easily run to criticize or deny.

I don't need NASA to take me to Mars to know that it's possible to be there. I believe in the ingenuity of man and the scientific progress throughout history that allows us to know those possibilities. I trust the evidence without having to "touch" the proof, but I'm still responsible to grow my understanding, research, and evaluate with a humble spirit all the declarations that are given, even those that seem contrary to my assumptions.

[ZenMaster]

My bet is if you don't force feed your kid with religious stuff from a young age he will never believe in it.
If he's smart and you try to tell and educate him about religion when he's a bit older there's a good chance he'll consider it all make belief.

I lived in the US for a year when I was 15/16, went to chuch every week and 4 times for easter or whatever. While I do think it's healthy to meet with people in your community on a regular basis, I'll never let some old stories dictate how I'm supposed to live my life, to me that's just very irrational.

[lilbeastnani]

Just want to check something, do you think there's any difference between a 'theory' and a 'scientific theory'?
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but the Bible isn't a theory. These are real people that wrote those words, if anything you could call it history. The belief in God, Jesus, Holy Spirit however has nothing to do with science, it's faith based.

[Balla_Status]

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but the Bible isn't a theory. These are real people that wrote those words, if anything you could call it history. The belief in God, Jesus, Holy Spirit however has nothing to do with science, it's faith based.

He's asking if you think a "theory" means that there is no 100% proof that it is possibly true. Your post suggested that there is no scientific backing behind the big bang theory when there in fact is.

[PullupJay]

Why the shift toward attacking personal faith?

I thought this thread was about the OP's concern for his son, and his decision to withhold information from his son until he thinks of a more opportune time.

Anyone can go wiki all those theories, the so-called conspiracies of organized religion, etc. Why don't we focus on the topic at hand?

If anyone wants to contest a particular religion's historical evidence, let him choose the right topic for that discussion, instead of deviating the topic with irrelevant and baseless assertions.

And anyways... whoever came to persuade the OP towards atheism, skepticism, agnosticism, intellectualism, etc. came in fact to do that which is being criticized: the preaching of personal beliefs to others. So by postulating himself as an opposition to "indoctrination", he falls in the same category that he tries to criticize, and rather ironically, becomes an evangelist.

All persons, no matter their type of belief, have a measure of faith. We all take for granted many things in life, therefore we have faith that those things retain a particular order that assure us of their state. Call it "trust" or "hope", and we all interpret from general axioms that in themselves reveal the measure of faith within every individual, that we so easily run to criticize or deny.

I don't need NASA to take me to Mars to know that it's possible to be there. I believe in the ingenuity of man and the scientific progress throughout history that allows us to know those possibilities. I trust the evidence without having to "touch" the proof, but I'm still responsible to grow my understanding, research, and evaluate with a humble spirit all the declarations that are given, even those that seem contrary to my assumptions.
:applause: repped

[PullupJay]

There are no atheists in a foxhole

[SilkkTheShocker]

There are no atheists in a foxhole


This x1000.

Most Atheists are actually people that are angry with God.

[lilbeastnani]

He's asking if you think a "theory" means that there is no 100% proof that it is possibly true. Your post suggested that there is no scientific backing behind the big bang theory when there in fact is.
Yeah but how the hell is there 100% proof that the big bang theory is true? There can't be 100% proof of that unless someone was there when it happened, otherwise that makes it a theory. My post did not suggest there's no scientific backing behind it, but it's definitely not a universally accepted scientific FACT.

[DonDadda59]

Anyone can go wiki all those theories, the so-called conspiracies of organized religion, etc. Why don't we focus on the topic at hand?

If anyone wants to contest a particular religion's historical evidence, let him choose the right topic for that discussion, instead of deviating the topic with irrelevant and baseless assertions.


Yeah, it's not so much 'so-called conspiracies' and 'baseless assertions' so much as it is documented historical fact, but carry on :basketball

[TheGreatBlaze]

The lie of evolution is poisoning this world.

[DonDadda59]

Most people are indoctrinated and that can make for a very close-minded and ignorant society.


The lie of evolution is poisoning this world.

Case in point :oldlol:

Don't let your boy become one of those that hold back human progress, Dooms.

[Heavincent]

Atheists make me sick. I almost feel bad for them.

:facepalm

[TheGreatBlaze]

Case in point :oldlol:

Don't let your boy become one of those that hold back human progress, Dooms.
There is no evidence of Darwinism, hate to break it to you. Every piece of evidence can be explained by the creation story told in the Bible. Evolution is a religion people hide behind because they want to write their own rules and not be held accountable to God. Sad but true.

[DonDadda59]

There is no evidence of Darwinism, hate to break it to you. Every piece of evidence can be explained by the creation story told in the Bible. Evolution is a religion people hide behind because they want to write their own rules and not be held accountable to God. Sad but true.

Indeed :bowdown:

[Is He Ill]

There are no atheists in a foxhole

It's because they have zero desire to fight in wars fueled by religion.

[Swaggin916]

What's there to understand? He's not real. I'm sure he doesn't believe in Santa and the Easter bunny either by age 10.

[Hazard]

OP - How about you tell him everything in life is a byproduct of the decisions he makes and equip him with the correct tools to make the best decisions.

Also in response to that "no atheists in the foxhole" post. I've met lots of Marine veterans, most of whom happened to become atheists during war time. Where they started reading a lot and really questioning humanity. Saying shit like that is insulting and disrespectful to all people who fought and died for this country. Also lets not forget that USSR was far more bad ass than US during WW2 and they were an atheist republic. Their social programs were definitely not up to par, however (understatement).

[Nick Young]

The lie of evolution is poisoning this world.
There's no reason god couldn't have created life with their eventual evolution in mind, in fact considering he's all knowing that makes the most sense, creating creatures with the ability to adapt and change with their environment as the environment changes. Evolution is guided by god. That makes the most sense to me.

AGAIN in the Talmud, which no one seems to care about reading, prehuman man-like creatures (neanderthals) are mentioned as existing before Adam and Eve. In other words, EVOLUTION HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN JUDAISM 1500 YEARS BEFORE DARWIN EVEN WAS BORN. It also fits in to everything in Kaballah.

Evolution only goes against god if you follow a MISTRANSLATED and LITERAL interpretation of the bible, which once again, is a book that was written and meant to be read as allegories and parables and not a LITERAL history of the world.

Too bad these "Christians" who have never actually studied their own religion will never understand that. It would save alot of retarded arguments.

[PullupJay]

There's no reason god couldn't have created life with their eventual evolution in mind, in fact considering he's all knowing that makes the most sense, creating creatures with the ability to adapt and change with their environment as the environment changes. Evolution is guided by god. That makes the most sense to me.

AGAIN in the Talmud, which no one seems to care about reading, prehuman man-like creatures (neanderthals) are mentioned as existing before Adam and Eve. In other words, EVOLUTION HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN JUDAISM 1500 YEARS BEFORE DARWIN EVEN WAS BORN. It also fits in to everything in Kaballah.

Evolution only goes against god if you follow a MISTRANSLATED and LITERAL interpretation of the bible, which once again, is a book that was written and meant to be read as allegories and parables and not a LITERAL history of the world.

Too bad these "Christians" who have never actually studied their own religion will never understand that. It would save alot of retarded arguments.
You keep mentioning that the torah/bible isn't to be taking literal but as allegories and parables.

Now I ask you; Did the stories actually happen? Were the Jews/Hebrews suffering in Egypt as slaves? Did the ten plagues happen as described in the torah? Did the sea split? Was god making unbelievable miracles happen? Were the ten commandments given on Mount Sinai? Did the Forefathers communicate with god and back?

How can the Torah be Man Made? It says that 6 million people witnessed God giving the torah at Mount Sinai. Till today it is being kept and observed by millions of people.
When could this "lie" possibly have been made, right?

Evolution completely goes against God and scipture. The claim of evolution is that we evolved, which cant be possible if you follow scripture because it says we were created as complete human creatures and come from Adam and Eve.

Maybe the worlds existence of 6000 years is misinterpreted, maybe when it says the world was created in 7 days maybe it was 7 billion years, but no way we evolved.(if u follow scipture)

And Nick I have not come across the idea of Neanderthals existing b4 Adam and Eve yet, dont know where you heard that from.

[Nick Young]

You keep mentioning that the torah/bible isn't to be taking literal but as allegories and parables.

Now I ask you; Did the stories actually happen? Were the Jews/Hebrews suffering in Egypt as slaves? Did the ten plagues happen as described in the torah? Did the sea split? Was god making unbelievable miracles happen? Were the ten commandments given on Mount Sinai? Did the Forefathers communicate with god and back?

How can the Torah be Man Made? It says that 6 million people witnessed God giving the torah at Mount Sinai. Till today it is being kept and observed by millions of people.
When could this "lie" possibly have been made, right?

Evolution completely goes against God and scipture. The claim of evolution is that we evolved, which cant be possible if you follow scripture because it says we were created as complete human creatures and come from Adam and Eve.

Maybe the worlds existence of 6000 years is misinterpreted, maybe when it says the world was created in 7 days maybe it was 7 billion years, but no way we evolved.(if u follow scipture)

And Nick I have not come across the idea of Neanderthals existing b4 Adam and Eve yet, dont know where you heard that from.
It's all in the Zohar and Talmud.

You probably don't know this but the old testament is only half of Jewish ie Original abrahamic religious beliefs, the other half is in the Talmud, which is an oral tradition dating back thousands of years that was finally written down about 1500 years ago and has alot of explanations and further reading into some of the vaguer aspects of the old testament, not to mention generations and generations of great sages arguing with eachother and discussing their own personal interpretations of things.

If you don't even have knowledge of what the Talmud is, there is no way you could have true understanding of "scripture"

Evolution does not go against god or the torah.

[SourPatchKids]

I like waffles.

[PullupJay]

It's all in the Zohar and Talmud.

You probably don't know this but the old testament is only half of Jewish ie Original abrahamic religious beliefs, the other half is in the Talmud, which is an oral

If you don't even have knowledge of what the Talmud is, there is no way you could have true understanding of "scripture"

Evolution does not go against god or the torah.
Torah sheh be-al peh veh Torah sheh bektav ;)

To quote you about the talmud you said it's an, "oral tradition dating back thousands of years that was finally written down about 1500 years ago and has alot of explanations and further reading into some of the vaguer aspects of the old testament, not to mention generations and generations of great sages arguing with eachother and discussing their own personal
interpretations of things."

So why are there no Rabbis that believe in or teach evolution? Why do they all deny it? :confusedshrug: You could be right though man.. i'm just stating what i know and my take on it.

[RoseCity07]

Religion is all bullshit but something new just crossed my mind. What does it mean to say Jesus is the son of God? In the christian faith aren't we all God's children? So being God's son doesn't make you special. Or did God play favorites and actually claim Jesus? I recently started reading the bible and I cannot fathom how anyone could believe that it's a true story.

[Nick Young]

Christians seem to believe in 3 deities, God, the son of god, and the holy spirit, and worship countless saints, which are basically minor gods themselves. I don't understand how christians can claim to be monotheistic.

[Nick Young]

Torah sheh be-al peh veh Torah sheh bektav ;)

To quote you about the talmud you said it's an, "oral tradition dating back thousands of years that was finally written down about 1500 years ago and has alot of explanations and further reading into some of the vaguer aspects of the old testament, not to mention generations and generations of great sages arguing with eachother and discussing their own personal
interpretations of things."

So why are there no Rabbis that believe in or teach evolution? Why do they all deny it? :confusedshrug: You could be right though man.. i'm just stating what i know and my take on it.
i dunno all rabbis I have talked to, even a chabad one, explained to me how evolution fit in to judaism and pointed out examples in text. These were all rabbis in LA though, and didn't talk to any hassidic rabbis, they are probably more liberal in LA.

[ballup]

I don't think OP did what Jesus would have done.