Sonny Hill (Bball Guru / Philly HOFer: "Wilt would toss Shaq around like a rag doll"

[CavaliersFTW]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ud8BEbofL0w/UEazSqMOpcI/AAAAAAAADlQ/pPKp4HfDX5c/s400/Wilt%2520vs%2520Shaq1.jpg

Entire Interview:
http://youtu.be/LfHI8BBIWTk

Part where Hill quotes NBA HOF'er Bob Lanier "Wilt would score 70(ppg)" - (if he were playing in the late 90's when Hakeem / Robinson / Ewing / Shaq were still in the NBA):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfHI8BBIWTk&t=11m12s

Part where Hill talks about how Wilt would toss Shaq around like a rag doll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfHI8BBIWTk&t=12m53s

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

EPIC Jlauber vs Millwad vs Deuce discussion in 3... 2... 1... GO

[Deuce Bigalow]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Delusional old man. Wilt would be closer to Javale McGee today than averaging 70 ppg :oldlol:

[SpecialQue]

A lot of old players admit that players from their era probably couldn't hang with the current generation. However, practically all of them say that Wilt would rape modern players on a nightly basis.

[IGotACoolStory]

Because that guy wouldn't be bias.

[Legends66NBA7]

Well now that Lanier said it, Wilt would have dropped 70+ppg for sure....

Wilt vs Shaq/Hakeem/Robinson/Ewing would have been fun to watch though. Wilt vs Kareem in their primes would still be the best.

[CavaliersFTW]

Well now that Lanier said it, Wilt would have dropped 70+ppg for sure....

Wilt vs Shaq/Hakeem/Robinson/Ewing would have been fun to watch though. Wilt vs Kareem in their primes would still be the best.

And Frazier says 75ppg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMvmsCqRAiI

[Kobr]

I hope he's speaking figuratively. Nobody is tossing prime Shaq anywhere. He might score a few points on Shaq, but Shaq would turn around and score them right back on Wilt. Probably more.

[jlip]

Part where Hill quotes NBA HOF'er Bob Lanier "Wilt would score 70(ppg)" - (if he were playing in the late 90's when Hakeem / Robinson / Ewing / Shaq were still in the NBA):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfHI8BBIWTk&t=11m12s

Part where Hill talks about how Wilt would toss Shaq around like a rag doll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfHI8BBIWTk&t=11m12s


Those two links start at the same point.

[CavaliersFTW]

I hope he's speaking figuratively. Nobody is tossing prime Shaq anywhere. He might score a few points on Shaq, but Shaq would turn around and score them right back on Wilt. Probably more.
Or perhaps less :D

[CavaliersFTW]

Those two links start at the same point.
fixed

the shaq one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfHI8BBIWTk&t=12m53s

[Legends66NBA7]

And Frazier says 75ppg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMvmsCqRAiI

Yeah, I already knew Frazier said that. I just didn't know about the Lanier quote, hence "he must score 70+ now" line... 2 quotes better than 1.

:oldlol:

[shaq2000]

Wilt's twiggy ass would be flattened by Shaq like a baby palm tree trying to stop a full-throttled diesel semi coming from 100 yards at max speed.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt's twiggy ass would be flattened by Shaq like a baby palm tree trying to stop a full-throttled diesel semi coming from 100 yards at max speed.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8LHD3s7-w48/UEa4VWs1xuI/AAAAAAAADlo/vYimbewa8TE/s640/Sequence%252001.Still001.jpg

twiggy :lol

[shaq2000]

Twiggy.

http://hoopspeak.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/wilt4.jpg

and easily man-handled by Shaq.

[CavaliersFTW]

Twiggy.

http://hoopspeak.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/wilt4.jpg

and easily man-handled by Shaq.
Globetrotter :facepalm before Wilt was even in the NBA? :oldlol: ur not so smart are u

[ShaqAttack3234]

I seem to recall Sonny Hill being one of Wilt's very good friends, so take it for what it's worth. You have to disregard the 70+ ppg nonsense, not even worth discussing. Any reasonable adult knows that nobody could do that, and only the best of the best could even get half of that in the late 90's, and not on a good team either. This is keeping in mind that no team today is going to design an offense for the purpose of seeing how much their star can score, not to be confused with a star carrying a team which is different.

Back to the point, you can speculate hpw the match up would go, but I feel comfortable saying that nobody in NBA history could toss Shaq around like a ragdoll or even overpower him. A select few might be able to match his strength, maybe late 60's/early 70's Wilt was one of them, maybe he wasn't.

I have said that Wilt in his Laker days especially when he focused on defense may have been one of the better individual defenders to throw at Shaq. I could see that, but nothing like shutting him down with single coverage.

Though lets keep in mind that Nate Thurmond who has to be in the discussion for best post defender and the best defensive players in NBA history has said that he didn't think he could guard Shaq and Yao while he has had success limiting Wilt and especially Kareem. I actually have thought Nate may have done a credible job vs Shaq defensively, so maybe he's being modest, but it's important to note that the rare guys like Shaq, and Yao for the rare stretches he was healthy had such great physical advantages that it's almost impossible to stop them from getting their shots.

[shaq2000]

Twig-gy. Shaq would tear that ass up.

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2006/10/WiltChamberlain1.JPG.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Twig-gy. Shaq would tear that ass up.

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2006/10/WiltChamberlain1.JPG.jpg
Could obese Shaq even jump that high? :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-y7DU4haAYB0/T7CeVtR-LPI/AAAAAAAAAQM/G_S6yWG3lrE/s1600/wilt-chamberlain.jpg.http://i.imm.io/DfKg.jpeg

ragdoll yo, ragdoll

[shaq2000]

The white guy would be Wilt, except skinnier and easier to brush out of the way.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs7/2914247_o.gif

[CavaliersFTW]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-y7DU4haAYB0/T7CeVtR-LPI/AAAAAAAAAQM/G_S6yWG3lrE/s1600/wilt-chamberlain.jpg.http://i.imm.io/DfKg.jpeg

ragdoll yo, ragdoll
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HYq4-JGyu7c/T1NnDTOyiEI/AAAAAAAADKo/cN0Aw7S8eSQ/s640/Goliath%2520Walpape3r.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i8IBcIRHYlI/Tlgls3_tVPI/AAAAAAAAEWI/riuVPrFSC7g/s1600/shaq-is-fat.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1zrCUthw19E/T2bG3vovXdI/AAAAAAAADQA/2lEaXcz5mww/s800/Shaq%2520Wilt%2520Dwight%2520Scale.jpg

Wilt is chiseled like Lebron where as Shaq is fat like Marshmelow anthony. Too easy.

[jlip]

So whose new gimmick account is shaq2000?

[CavaliersFTW]

So whose new gimmick account is shaq2000?
Deuce :lol

[CavaliersFTW]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly9kabspkv1r324lio1_500.jpg

twiggy :roll:

[eliteballer]

He couldn't even toss Kareem around like a rag doll, in fact Kareem use to posterize him something nasty.

[CavaliersFTW]

He couldn't even toss Kareem around like a rag doll, in fact Kareem use to posterize him something nasty.
lol Kareem (and Shaq) would obviously inevitably get points and a few dunks on Wilt but Wilt definitely tossed Kareem around like a ragdoll in the process and held Kareem to atrocious fg%'s - he'd do the same to Shaq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDzzxVE34k&t=3m53s

[PHILA]

Twig-gy.
:no:

In '63 he reported to camp at roughly 315 lbs, while another article reported that his was 320 lbs.


Meriden Journal - Sep 6, 1963 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=CqxIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xwANAAAAIBAJ&pg=3715,469887&dq)

http://i.imgur.com/9hHKU.png





http://i.imgur.com/F8ayu.png
http://i.imgur.com/7Nkzu.png
http://i.imgur.com/YRmNb.png






As a skinny rookie in '59, he could clean & jerk 265 lbs & military press 210 lbs. By the mid 60's those numbers (reportedly) increased to 435 lbs & 400 lbs. According to esteemed author Gary M. Pomerantz in Wilt, 1962: The Night of 100 Points And the Dawn of a New Era, Chamberlain could deadlift 625 lbs.





Sports Illustrated - October 26, 1959

Consider the following: he has run the quarter mile in 49 seconds flat, bettered 6 feet 7 in the high jump, put the shot 51 feet, can lift 265 pounds in the clean-and-jerk and 210 in the military press. For none of these feats did Chamberlain prepare himself through normal training; they were casual, offhand achievements by an athlete who has always devoted his free time and effort to basketball.



November 29, 1965

NEW YORK (NEA)—The cop guarding the door to the Philadelphia dressing room in Madison Square Garden spryly ducked aside when Wilt Chamberlain charged in at halftime.

"Whew! Don't ever want to get in that man's way," said the special policeman, who stood a foot shorter and weighed 80 pounds less than Chamberlain. 'He may look tall and skinny, but let me tell you he's one big, strong man."

Chamberlain reminds me of the story of the guy who mated a wild bull with a tiger," the cop went on. "The guy didn't know' what to call it, but when it growled, he listened.

"It's much the same in the National Basketball Association. When the goateed 76ers' superstar so much as moves a muscle, somebody else twitches. "Wilt can make it as easy or as tough on you as he wants," said Ray Scott, the Detroit Pistons' burly 6-10 center-forward. Sure, he expects guys playing against him to play as hard as he does, and he respects you for it.

"But any guy who wants to play, 'who's boss?' with Wilt had better forget it," Scott laughed.

"He's so strong, so tough and so basketball-wise that he can bruise you up under the boards and make it look easy."

Chamberlain, it must be noted,has never fouled out of an NBA game.

Scott recalled a time he outmaneuvered Chamberlain beneath the bucket to snatch a rebound. Or so he thought.

"I was holding that ball just as tightly as I could, and Wilt reached over me and grabbed it away with one hand—just like that!" Scott said.

Did Scott learn anything from that experience?

"Yeah, I learned not to be surprised if it happens again."

The New York Knicks' 6-11 center, Walt Bellamy, no weakling himself, says Chamberlain's physical strength is his greatest asset in basketball, not his height, which is 7-1, nor his reach, which is way up there.

"There are a few players who can jump with Wilt," Bellamy said. "There's no one, though, who can outmuscle him for the ball, or consistently out-position him under the boards, or impede his dunk shot and his driving for the basket."

Bellamy claims that on "pure physical strength," Chamberlain is in a class by himself in the NBA. "The gap between Wilt and the next strongest player is a big one."

Jimmy Brown, the great and powerful Cleveland Browns fullback, one of Chamberlain's close friends, calls Wilt "the strongest athlete in the world, bar none."

Massive Wayne Embry of the Cincinnati Royals has said of Wilt: "He has muscles he doesn't even know about."

And so on.

Granted Chamberlain is strong, but, just how strong is he? Is it true he can clean and jerk 435 pounds; does he workout regularly with weights; does he agree with Brown that he's the strongest athlete in the world; has he ever met a man whose strength compares with his?

"Compare, compare," Chamberlain snapped back at the questions. "Man, why does somebody always want to compare me with something or someone?"

Wilt has said those questions come under what he calls the"goon bit" and made it quite clear once again he's tired of answering them.

"You see me on the court. You know I can play ball. Everybody knows what I can do," he said. "As far as my strength goes, let's just say I'm strong and let it go at that."

Fine, Wilt, Anything you say, fella.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyz-FhP2ONk#t=3m49s


Nov 28, 1956

'It seems Wilt has an unorthodox method of shooting free throws. The big guy takes aim at the basket from several feet behind the line. Then he takes about three giant steps, leaves his feet before reaching the line, and stuffs the ball through the hoop.

Under the old rule, it was perfectly legal as Wilt never touched the floor before letting go of the ball. In addition his percentage was fantastic.

"Why, he would have had a free throw percentage of 100," said [Tex] Winter. "He never missed."

Incidentally the rules committee did not mention Chamberlain by name as a reason for the change. The rule change was made, according to the committee, "to prevent freak activity."'



The Miami News - Nov 7, 1962

'He can clean and jerk a 375-lb. weight, run the quarter mile in 47s, and high-jump over 6-11.'



Sports Illustrated - March 2, 1964

'The St. Louis Hawks' 6-foot-9, 240-pound Zelmo Beaty, for example, found out recently that he can no longer take Chamberlain's great strength for granted. Unable to slow Wilt down with conventional maltreatment, Beaty tried to yank his shorts off. Chamberlain, who can press 400 pounds without breathing hard, makes it a point to control his temper, primarily because he is genuinely afraid he might kill somebody. Beaty's unethical yank, however, was too much. Wilt flicked an arm, and Beaty flew across the floor like a man shot out of a cannon. Referee Mendy Rudolph rushed over to him and said: "For God's sake, stay down, man. Don't even twitch a muscle." Beaty didn't twitch, and he is still active in the NBA.'




http://articles.philly.com/2012-01-10/s ... preciation (http://articles.philly.com/2012-01-10/sports/30612013_1_elevator-sixers-new-appreciation)

January 10, 2012

I will be 55 in a few months, the age he was when I interviewed him. This gives me a whole new appreciation for that interview. It is natural at this age to reflect on one's decisions in life, to contemplate making the most of the good years that remain.

Wilt seemed in far better shape then than I am now, absolutely no gut, sculpted in his tight T-shirt. The world never fully appreciated what an athlete he was. During the filming of Conan the Destroyer, with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Wilt said he put five 50-pound weights on his rib cage, elevated his feet on an incline board, and did 30 sit-ups.

"Arnold couldn't believe it," Wilt said. "He wouldn't even try it."

When I met him that day in 1991, the Sixers had just retired his number, and he told me that was "the most moving day of my life." So many fans thanking him. "I should have been the one saying 'Thank you,' " he said.

Wilt died in 1999.

He would have loved the video homage to him the Sixers showed Monday night and will again many times this season to reconnect the team with its legacy.

The man was undeniably Philadelphia's greatest homegrown athlete. He was large, and he was larger than life. And thanks, Wilt, for sharing one day with me.

[eliteballer]

lol Kareem (and Shaq) would obviously inevitably get points and a few dunks on Wilt but Wilt definitely tossed Kareem around like a ragdoll in the process and held Kareem to atrocious fg%'s - he'd do the same to Shaq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDzzxVE34k&t=3m53s

I like how you say he used to toss kareem around like a ragdoll then post a clip with Kareem swatting a DUNK attempt at point blank range and numerous posters on Wilt:roll:...and we're talking young Kareem vs peak strength Wilt.

[CavaliersFTW]

[QUOTE=PHILA]:no:

In '63 he reported to camp at roughly 315 lbs, while another article reported that his was 320 lbs.


Meriden Journal - Sep 6, 1963 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=CqxIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xwANAAAAIBAJ&pg=3715,469887&dq)

http://i.imgur.com/9hHKU.png





http://i.imgur.com/F8ayu.png
http://i.imgur.com/7Nkzu.png
http://i.imgur.com/YRmNb.png






As a skinny rookie in '59, he could clean & jerk 265 lbs & military press 210 lbs. By the mid 60's those numbers (reportedly) increased to 435 lbs & 400 lbs. According to esteemed author Gary M. Pomerantz in Wilt, 1962: The Night of 100 Points And the Dawn of a New Era, Chamberlain could deadlift 625 lbs.





Sports Illustrated - October 26, 1959

Consider the following: he has run the quarter mile in 49 seconds flat, bettered 6 feet 7 in the high jump, put the shot 51 feet, can lift 265 pounds in the clean-and-jerk and 210 in the military press. For none of these feats did Chamberlain prepare himself through normal training; they were casual, offhand achievements by an athlete who has always devoted his free time and effort to basketball.



[I]November 29, 1965

NEW YORK (NEA)

[CavaliersFTW]

I like how you say he used to toss kareem around like a ragdoll then post a clip with Kareem swatting a DUNK attempt at point blank range and numerous posters on Wilt:roll:
Yes, kareem dunks on Wilt... then Wilt proceeds to dismantle the dude entirely and make him look like a fool with nothing but 1 on 1 D (no weakside help). How many centers guarded kareem 1 on 1 in his prime? (none). Except Wilt.

[eliteballer]

A young Kareem more than holding his own and putting up numbers on Wilt at the peak of his defense, strength, and size...keep trying:lol Wilt said Kareem was the first player he needed help guarding.

[CavaliersFTW]

A young Kareem more than holding his own and putting up numbers on Wilt at the peak of his defense, strength, and size...keep trying:lol

Wilt's defensive peak was '67 - that footage was 35 year old Wilt past his prime... focused on defense sure, but past his prime. And yet he still raped Kareem h2h. Dominated his ass in '71 and got a standing ovation from the Milwaukee crowd. Buried his ass in '72 to win the title. Too easy , NEXT :lol

[eliteballer]

raped Kareem h2h? Wilt never dominated Kareem like that...:oldlol: you're clearly just some kid with a fascination of Wilt.

[CavaliersFTW]

raped Kareem h2h? Wilt never dominated Kareem like that...:oldlol: you're clearly just some kid with a fascination of Wilt.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OIpawBITrJM/T0yGz4ftw2I/AAAAAAAADFs/TaKd-CPdBkg/s800/April%252015%25201972%2520Chamberlain%2520blocked% 2520Kareem%25205%2520times%252C%252019%2520blocked %2520shots%2520total.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-n45x3klQkfg/T2yNRso2O6I/AAAAAAAADTk/-GQ2J95OGPk/s0/April%252019th%25201972%2520-%2520G5%2520Bucks%2520Lakers%2520Recap.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-d-bbeDKJ4EU/T2oBieQAqgI/AAAAAAAADSo/RjOjsxLc9_A/s800/April%252023rd%25201972%2520-%2520G6%2520Playoffs%2520Clincher%2520vs%2520Bucks-1.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KqUzT3hmNHM/T0mwRDj0HDI/AAAAAAAADAY/w6tAYZV4h8c/s0/April%252012th%25201971%2520-%2520Wilt%2520bests%2520lew%2520but%2520Bucks%2520 win.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-y0utVbmcpFc/T0mwR-gTNbI/AAAAAAAADA0/fperatU7Ue4/s800/April%252015%25201971%2520-%2520Chamberlain%2520integral%2520to%2520Lakers%25 20win%2520at%2520Bucks.jpg

:kobe: sure it never happened




NEXT

[Rasheed1]

Sonny Hill is my old head... He taught me about guys that played before I was even born... Sonny is the local Bball guru.

[CavaliersFTW]

Sonny Hill is my old head... He taught me about guys that played before I was even born... Sonny is the local Bball guru.
He tell u anything about Wilt?

[eliteballer]

You just posted articles of Kareem scoring 28 points and grabbing 16 rebounds after averaging 34 in the series, and 20 points and 19 rebounds, and 22 points, try again:oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

You just posted articles of Kareem scoring 28 points and grabbing 16 rebounds after averaging 34 in the series, and 20 points and 19 rebounds, and 22 points, try again:oldlol:
right i forgot that stats outweigh what people actually saw happen (Kareem getting outplayed and outmuscled by Wilt - shook beyond the point of effectiveness)

but what do those dumb ol sports writers and spectators know from back then, clearly the stats are the only way to judge who outplayed who :rolleyes: :oldlol:

Next.

[Rasheed1]

He tell u anything about Wilt?

HE talked MOSTLY about Wilt. He talked everything though.. Old players, rivalries... Stories about guys like Earl the pearl and jo jo white... Havlicek, Russell.. all that stuff.. He talked the game too... Has his own league... Every kid wants to play in sonny hill league.. I think kobe played in Sonny Hill league growing up.. Aaron Mckie... Pooh Richardson

[CavaliersFTW]

HE talked MOSTLY about Wilt. He talked everything though.. Old players, rivalries... Stories about guys like Earl the pearl and jo jo white... Havlicek, Russell.. all that stuff.. He talked the game too... Has his own league... Every kid wants to play in sonny hill league.. I think kobe played in Sonny Hill league growing up.. Aaron Mckie... Pooh Richardson
So do u think Sonny is full of it? Or do u think Wilt might have actually been on this whole other level of talent not seen before during or since, and that Sonny is just tryina tell it like it really is

[jstern]

I think Wilt get underrated because he played in the early 60s, but the guy was an athlete. And I don't mean just physically, but that the guy was all about being an athlete, and not just basketball. I mean how many players stay in that being an athlete mentality and still training and staying in shape after retirement. That's the vibe I get from him. I think he would be in Shaq's level. Again, I don't know much about him, but I also think he would be the type who would try to learn more new moves and perfect them. The type that would want to prove a point, like leading the league in assist to prove that he can do more things than scoring. I also remember him saying that he regretted not using his power more often, because he wanted to prove that he was more skilled than that. Again, I don't know much about him, those are just the vibes that I get from him.

Add all the new things he would benefit from that were not readily available in that era.

[Rasheed1]

So do u think Sonny is full of it? Or do u think Wilt might have actually been on this whole other level of talent not seen before during or since, and that Sonny is just tryina tell it like it really is


I think Wilt was on a whole different level.. It would be like putting Shaq back in the day for the first time...

I think Wilt in his prime would be Shaq's equal.. maybe even better.. cant say for sure..

I appreciate guys like Sonny because he gave me an idea of what Wilt meant to the game. I may not take everything Sonny says literally...I doubt he would destroy Shaq.. But it would be an awesome matchup to see them play each other in their primes...Wilt was the first of his kind. They had to change rules because this guy was soo ridiculously dominant...

Now, if you put Shaq back in that era? Maybe the same thing happens, Maybe it doesnt... The world was different... times were different and it is also interesting to see the kind of men guys like Wilt and Russell and others players..

You start to get an idea for how playing styles evolve..

You see how players emulate older players and the game evolves

The first time is the key.... Its similar to the first time people saw Baylor or Doc.. Those guys created something that eventually evolved into Jordan, and then Kobe..

Kobe, Lebron, all these current superstars are simply steps in the evolution of the game...

you can see how it used to be originally a pass oriented team centric game, where the whole idea of the game was to pass the ball to the player who had the highest percentage shot available... Then it became a big man's game... Then around the time of Doc in into Mj it changed into a game dominated by smaller players who are extremely dynamic, yet can still win you titles (because before jordan, it was thought that you NEEDED a big man to lead a team to titles)..

but anyway.... I dont take everything Sonny says Wilt literally, but get his point..

[CavaliersFTW]

I think Wilt get underrated because he played in the early 60s, but the guy was an athlete. And I don't mean just physically, but that the guy was all about being an athlete, and not just basketball. I mean how many players stay in that being an athlete mentality and still training and staying in shape after retirement. That's the vibe I get from him. I think he would be in Shaq's level. Again, I don't know much about him, but I also think he would be the type who would try to learn more new moves and perfect them. The type that would want to prove a point, like leading the league in assist to prove that he can do more things than scoring. I also remember him saying that he regretted not using his power more often, because he wanted to prove that he was more skilled than that. Again, I don't know much about him, those are just the vibes that I get from him.

Add all the new things he would benefit from that were not readily available in that era.

workin on a project to showcase that vibe
http://youtu.be/-3Uld9H6T0E

[ThaRegul8r]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ud8BEbofL0w/UEazSqMOpcI/AAAAAAAADlQ/pPKp4HfDX5c/s400/Wilt%2520vs%2520Shaq1.jpg

Entire Interview:
http://youtu.be/LfHI8BBIWTk

Part where Hill quotes NBA HOF'er Bob Lanier "Wilt would score 70(ppg)" - (if he were playing in the late 90's when Hakeem / Robinson / Ewing / Shaq were still in the NBA):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfHI8BBIWTk&t=11m12s

Part where Hill talks about how Wilt would toss Shaq around like a rag doll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfHI8BBIWTk&t=12m53s

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

EPIC Jlauber vs Millwad vs Deuce discussion in 3... 2... 1... GO

Not that it should particularly matter to you, but my opinion of you—which was previously neutral, has now lessened upon seeing you instigating this crap, which invariably derails threads and brings any semblance of intelligent discussion to a screeching halt as it hijacks ISH. An instigator is nothing more than a trouble-maker.

[OmniStrife]

Sure he would...

http://i.imgur.com/TmJCM.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]Not that it should particularly matter to you, but my opinion of you

[iamgine]

Sonny Hill is pretty old. Probably has dementia.

[ThaRegul8r]

Is it possible to derail my own thread? :biggums:

I said their endless bickering derails thread. Read again. I said you were guilty of egging them on to resume the pointlessness once more, which you are.


I don't care what your opinion is of me

Evidently you missed the very beginning of my sentence:


Not that it should particularly matter to you

I acknowledged you have no reason to care, as we have not had any prior interaction. There is no need to repeat what has already been established. Sorry, I have a distaste for redundancy.


if you didn't know that I occasionally post sarcastic or controversial topics than you've just been (for better or worse) missing out on a lot of my threads.

As you are a newer poster ("newer" being relative to the amount of time that I've been a member of these boards), combined with the fact that I no longer frequent here as much as I once did, no, I can't say that I am familiar with the regular content of your threads. But if starting controversy is your shtick, then with that warning, perhaps I should just stay away. No offense, but that's simply not my thing, as I prefer the dissemination of basketball knowledge. I will leave you to it then and simply be on my way.

[coin24]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


Prime Shaq would rape Wilt the same as he did everyone else... Damn old farts crapping on about Wilt as usual:oldlol:

[Optimus Prime]

Wilt is one off the few old players who would stand the test of time and still compete at a high level in the modern game. He was just a freak of nature. He was "twiggy" early on but he eventually bulked up to over 300 pounds. Obviously 70 ppg and throwing Shaq around like a rag doll are hyperbole and trolling but make no mistake ... Wilt could still beast in today's NBA.

:kobe:

[Optimus Prime]

And hey Wilt could beat the Bobcats single handedly since Wilt > big cats ... :oldlol:

:kobe:

[sundizz]

So from pictures it seems that Kareem was 7'3 about, Wilt about 7'2 and Shaq about 7'1.5 (all in shoes). Bill Russell maybe 6'10?

http://i.imgur.com/0sVbN.jpg
http://www.dailysportnewspaper.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/16b968c8SONKAJ.jpg
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQyRYvr4x7oMdPMnWyMZfu9HFySyyZPS Ovjxx_xj1Ic-OvwRgl4UA&t=1
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRY6qG_SzvGTEb7qMKvS9paubvD7eEPX 86SYd-O3-QBCviR5_9Bsg&t=1

[JMT]

HE talked MOSTLY about Wilt. He talked everything though.. Old players, rivalries... Stories about guys like Earl the pearl and jo jo white... Havlicek, Russell.. all that stuff.. He talked the game too... Has his own league... Every kid wants to play in sonny hill league.. I think kobe played in Sonny Hill league growing up.. Aaron Mckie... Pooh Richardson

Played Sonny Hill league back when Sonny was still a young man.

[GOBB]

Why take what Sonny Hill said in the literal sense? You guys are weird. :confusedshrug:



Sonny Hill is pretty old. Probably has dementia.

He's seen Wilt and Shaq at every level of both players careers. Not many fans can say that. Just something to think about.

[Psileas]

Played Sonny Hill league back when Sonny was still a young man.

BTW, I have wondered what type of player Sonny Hill himself was. He'd only played some semi-professional ball and there are no stats of him available.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://i.imm.io/DljW.jpeg

http://i.imm.io/Dlia.pnghttp://lakersblog.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c506253ef014e88d3d6db970d-320wi

http://i.imm.io/Dlgh.png


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Old delusional alzheimer dementia patients living in the past
"Wilt jumped 60 inches of the ground"
"Wilt dunked freethrows"
Wilt would averaged 80 ppg now"
:facepalm

[CavaliersFTW]

http://2wordsthetop.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/wilt-chamberlain.jpghttp://thebasketballoracle.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/bryant-and-oneal-in-happier-times-as-teammates.jpg

http://i.imm.io/Dlia.pnghttp://lakersblog.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c506253ef014e88d3d6db970d-320wi

http://i.imm.io/Dlgh.png


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Old delusional alzheimer dementia patients living in the past
"Wilt jumped 60 inches of the ground"
"Wilt dunked freethrows"
Wilt would averaged 80 ppg now"
:facepalm
your name (Deuce) is so befitting u know that right? ur always such a turd :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

your name (Deuce) is so befitting u know that right? ur always such a turd :lol
Keep pretending to be a Wilt Chokedagain historian.
20 years from now you'll be talking and posting videos of Wilt on here :lol

[Optimus Prime]

Keep pretending to be a Wilt Chokedagain historian.
20 years from now you'll be talking and posting videos of Wilt on here :lol

What is your agenda against Wilt? He was a great Laker and helped bring home the 72 title with a broken hand. Seriously...or are you just a Kobe fan?

:facepalm

:kobe:

[aj242]

Why take what Sonny Hill said in the literal sense? You guys are weird. :confusedshrug:




He's seen Wilt and Shaq at every level of both players careers. Not many fans can say that. Just something to think about.

Yeah but Sonny has always has an older was better bias. Chick Hearn said many times that he thought Wilt was stronger then Shaq. However he said SHaq was quicker off the floor the Wilt. I agreed with that.

I think that is where Shaq would give him problems. Years ago I called Sonny on WIP 610 when Chick said this around the time the Lakers won in 2000.

He said Chick must have been drinking something. He said Wilt could outrun Shaq baseline to baseline going backwards! That has nothing to do with quickness & bounce however.

He is also legendary for saying Jordan wouldn't have averaged 25 in the 60's! He said that Mike would have been no better then Luke Jackson on the 67 Sixers!:facepalm

Thats when I stopped calling him. He was Wilts best friend & a legend himself around these parts but he can say some outlandish things!

[Deuce Bigalow]

What is your agenda against Wilt? He was a great Laker and helped bring home the 72 title with a broken hand. Seriously...or are you just a Kobe fan?

:facepalm

:kobe:
I don't have an agenda against Wilt. Great player in his era. I rank him top 10 all-time. I just have a problem with bullshit garbage, like Wilt being able to throw Shaq like a ragdoll. I don't need alheimers pills to figure if its true or not. Or that Wilt would drop 70 ppg now. No he wouldn't, I've seen the tape of the 60s, there is a reason why he was good in that era. Some of these old guys actually believe that not only was the 60s era was even close to now, but better.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yeah but Sonny has always has an older was better bias. Chick Hearn said many times that he thought Wilt was stronger then Shaq. However he said SHaq was quicker off the floor the Wilt. I agreed with that.

I think that is where Shaq would give him problems. Years ago I called Sonny on WIP 610 when Chick said this around the time the Lakers won in 2000.

He said Chick must have been drinking something. He said Wilt could outrun Shaq baseline to baseline going backwards! That has nothing to do with quickness & bounce however.

He is also legendary for saying Jordan wouldn't have averaged 25 in the 60's! He said that Mike would have been no better then Luke Jackson on the 67 Sixers!:facepalm

Thats when I stopped calling him. He was Wilts best friend & a legend himself around these parts but he can say some outlandish things!
See, I don't hate Wilt, just hate this kind of garbage.
These old guys just want to live in the past.

[Optimus Prime]

I don't have an agenda against Wilt. Great player in his era. I rank him top 10 all-time. I just have a problem with bullshit garbage, like Wilt being able to throw Shaq like a ragdoll. I don't need alheimers pills to figure if its true or not. Or that Wilt would drop 70 ppg now. No he wouldn't, I've seen the tape of the 60s, there is a reason why he was good in that era. Some of these old guys actually believe that not only was the 60s era was even close to now, but better.

I highly doubt any reasonable person really believes that Wilt could drop 70 ppg and throw Shaq around like a ragdoll. Come on. It's just hyperbole, like most of the junk that comes from the media and the forums.

But seriously, prime Wilt could definitely hold his own in the modern game. I think he could battle prime Shaq, prime Hakeem, etc. and hold up well, though I don't know if he could dominate in the modern game like he did back then. Despite popular belief, the league wasn't dominated by 5'5" white guys in bifocals back then. Trust me, I used to believe that until I watched some games.

I've never seen anybody decent like jlauber say anything ridiculous about Wilt. The mountain lion story is just all in good fun. You just lay into Wilt and anybody who would think of supporting him. It's...kind of obsessive.

:kobe:

[JMT]

BTW, I have wondered what type of player Sonny Hill himself was. He'd only played some semi-professional ball and there are no stats of him available.

He was a playground legend, though that was long before my time. His mark was really made as a coach/organizer of youth leagues.

[fpliii]

I can't speak for Deuce, but from discussing with him on another board we both post on, I think I have some idea of where he's coming from.

I don't have an issue with Wilt personally, but I think the superlatives regarding his scoring prior to the lane widening are insanely overstated. The Wilt that played with the Sixers/Lakers was the best player on two of the greatest teams of all time, and in his capacity as a defensive anchor, dominant rebounder (as well as an offensive hub before he went down in 1970), he peaked as a top five player in my book (not just for his era, but all-time...when he put on more weight and really thrived as a power player with finesse as opposed to a finesse player with power). I think that Wilt would be arguably the best player in almost any season in which he played, until five seconds back to the basket was introduced (the new hand-checking guidelines pushing the game out would give him fewer touches as well if he came into the league today).

Since I wasn't alive back then I can only speak about what I've watched/read, but I really can't hold the Wilt Chamberlain that primarily played for the Warriors in as high a regard as most. It's not all pace and competition (there were also discrepancies in height since players weren't listed with shoes back then), but style of play. Part of the onus is on the coaches who called the plays and demanded that will received touches, but Wilt didn't exactly complain about this. I really can't rate that player at all, just as I can't rank Mikan because of an even smaller lane and lack of a shot clock. Both players had a monumental impact on the game for sure, but both George Mikan and Warriors Wilt would get absolutely murdered in today's game. Wilt himself recognized this, and even said as much later in his career. I was doing research, and he was a huge critic of Ralph Sampson running the court as a big. He noted that he himself noted that this was not how the game was meant to be played, and that he himself was at his best when he played like a seven footer at near and above 300 pounds later in his playing time.

To answer the OP: Wilt wouldn't throw Shaq around like a rag doll, but the Wilt we saw on the Sixers/Lakers would have held his own, and due to his defensive commitment/versatility might have been considered a better player than Shaq during some years if they came up around the same time. But Warriors Wilt is a total anomaly historically, and could not thrive in Shaq's day or today.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Why is it so hard to believe Wilt would be good in this current league? Especially right now. The best center is like 6'9. Wilt would be legit these days.

[millwad]

I've never seen anybody decent like jlauber say anything ridiculous about Wilt. The mountain lion story is just all in good fun. You just lay into Wilt and anybody who would think of supporting him. It's...kind of obsessive.

:kobe:

Jlauber is a know liar, he still claims that Wilt blocked 20 to the 30 skyhooks in one series against Kareem.

He used to write crap about Wilt being a pro volleyballplayer.

He claims that Wilt used to dunk his FT's.

He claims that Wilt could touch the top of the backboard.

He claims that Wilt had sex with his mom...

He is a crappy poster.

[Optimus Prime]

Jlauber is a know liar, he still claims that Wilt blocked 20 to the 30 skyhooks in one series against Kareem.

He used to write crap about Wilt being a pro volleyballplayer.

He claims that Wilt used to dunk his FT's.

He claims that Wilt could touch the top of the backboard.

He claims that Wilt had sex with his mom...

He is a crappy poster.

In a series? I'd believe it. Wilt really focused on defense starting with his Sixers championship season.

Wilt WAS a pro volleyball player. He was co-owner of the league. He is retired in the pro volleyball Hall of Fame. Seriously, this stuff isn't hard to look up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain#Post-NBA_career

References are provided verifying Wilt's pro volleyball career.

Tex Winter has confirmed that Wilt could dunk his free throws. Is Tex Winter also a liar?

Reputable sources have confirmed that Wilt could touch the top of the backboard. Are they all liars too? Remember the time...there isn't a lot of footage of this stuff. Was the 100 point game a lie too even though we don't have footage of it other than that one picture?

The last one seems made up and you're just mad.

There is a crappy poster here, but it's not jlauber... :facepalm

:kobe:

[millwad]

And as if those things are not enough, Jlauber has the latest years dedicated his whole life to Wilt Chamberlain.

Jlauber's wife, Pam, has been on the verge of divorcing Jlauber because of his obsession with Wilt. Jlauber is known in whole Galt, California for his obsession with Wilt, he even put up posters of Wilt in his neighborhood.. What kind of freak does that really?

This is inside-info from another ISH-poster who PM'd me who assured me that it was true and that he knows Jeff in real life.

[Optimus Prime]

And as if those things are not enough, Jlauber has the latest years dedicated his whole life to Wilt Chamberlain.

Jlauber's wife, Pam, has been on the verge of divorcing Jlauber because of his obsession with Wilt. Jlauber is known in whole Galt, California for his obsession with Wilt, he even put up posters of Wilt in his neighborhood.. What kind of freak does that really?

This is inside-info from another ISH-poster who PM'd me who assured me that it was true and that he knows Jeff in real life.

Wow. This is creepy cyber stalker type of stuff. Scary. All over posts about basketball on an Internet forum. I'm just going to put you on ignore and quietly back away from the thread...

:kobe:

[millwad]

In a series? I'd believe it. Wilt really focused on defense starting with his Sixers championship season.

Well, then you're an idiot too.
That means that he would have blocked 5 skyhooks per game and if he would be anywhere close to that then people who saw the series would confirm it.



Wilt WAS a pro volleyball player. He was co-owner of the league. He is retired in the pro volleyball Hall of Fame. Seriously, this stuff isn't hard to look up.


You're not a pro volleyball player just because you played one season in a league where women and men played on the same team. And stop with your nonsense, first of all, Wilt wasn't in the Hall of Fame of volleyball as a player but as a contributor. And it wasn't the real Hall of Fame, it was a the garbage IVA Hall of Fame. IVA was a volleyball league who lasted for 5 years where women and men played on the same team.




Tex Winter has confirmed that Wilt could dunk his free throws. Is Tex Winter also a liar?


Yes, without any documentation what so ever and with so many garbage quotes from that era I have no confidence in them quotes. Wilt himself claimed that he had a 50 inch vertical.. :facepalm



Reputable sources have confirmed that Wilt could touch the top of the backboard. Are they all liars too? Remember the time...there isn't a lot of footage of this stuff. Was the 100 point game a lie too even though we don't have footage of it other than that one picture?

Share them sources.

[millwad]

Wow. This is creepy cyber stalker type of stuff. Scary. All over posts about basketball on an Internet forum. I'm just going to put you on ignore and quietly back away from the thread...

:kobe:

I'm not the one who did it, got a PM and I found it to be hilarious.

Now be serious and reply to my latest comment where you got shredded in to pieces.

[Deuce Bigalow]

And as if those things are not enough, Jlauber has the latest years dedicated his whole life to Wilt Chamberlain.

Jlauber's wife, Pam, has been on the verge of divorcing Jlauber because of his obsession with Wilt. Jlauber is known in whole Galt, California for his obsession with Wilt, he even put up posters of Wilt in his neighborhood.. What kind of freak does that really?

This is inside-info from another ISH-poster who PM'd me who assured me that it was true and that he knows Jeff in real life.
:roll: PM me this millwad

[TheBigVeto]

And as if those things are not enough, Jlauber has the latest years dedicated his whole life to Wilt Chamberlain.

Jlauber's wife, Pam, has been on the verge of divorcing Jlauber because of his obsession with Wilt. Jlauber is known in whole Galt, California for his obsession with Wilt, he even put up posters of Wilt in his neighborhood.. What kind of freak does that really?

This is inside-info from another ISH-poster who PM'd me who assured me that it was true and that he knows Jeff in real life.

LOL. That crazy guy.

[Asukal]

Dude, anyone with a keen eye would be able to notice how obsessed jlauber is. It's clearly abnormal and unhealthy how much he adores the guy. And for the last time, jlauber's knowledge in basketball is just stat based and he can't break down a game without looking at the stats. :facepalm

[DKLaker]

I hope he's speaking figuratively. Nobody is tossing prime Shaq anywhere. He might score a few points on Shaq, but Shaq would turn around and score them right back on Wilt. Probably more.

Obviously Shaq is a larger man but Wilt was stronger and much more athletic.
It would've been a good battle but Wilt would come out the clear winner every time. People forget how badly Hakeem owned Shaq in the finals.

[Pointguard]

I can't speak for Deuce, but from discussing with him on another board we both post on, I think I have some idea of where he's coming from.

I don't have an issue with Wilt personally, but I think the superlatives regarding his scoring prior to the lane widening are insanely overstated. The Wilt that played with the Sixers/Lakers was the best player on two of the greatest teams of all time, and in his capacity as a defensive anchor, dominant rebounder (as well as an offensive hub before he went down in 1970), he peaked as a top five player in my book (not just for his era, but all-time...when he put on more weight and really thrived as a power player with finesse as opposed to a finesse player with power). I think that Wilt would be arguably the best player in almost any season in which he played, until five seconds back to the basket was introduced (the new hand-checking guidelines pushing the game out would give him fewer touches as well if he came into the league today).

Since I wasn't alive back then I can only speak about what I've watched/read, but I really can't hold the Wilt Chamberlain that primarily played for the Warriors in as high a regard as most. It's not all pace and competition (there were also discrepancies in height since players weren't listed with shoes back then), but style of play. Part of the onus is on the coaches who called the plays and demanded that will received touches, but Wilt didn't exactly complain about this. I really can't rate that player at all, just as I can't rank Mikan because of an even smaller lane and lack of a shot clock. Both players had a monumental impact on the game for sure, but both George Mikan and Warriors Wilt would get absolutely murdered in today's game. Wilt himself recognized this, and even said as much later in his career. I was doing research, and he was a huge critic of Ralph Sampson running the court as a big. He noted that he himself noted that this was not how the game was meant to be played, and that he himself was at his best when he played like a seven footer at near and above 300 pounds later in his playing time.

To answer the OP: Wilt wouldn't throw Shaq around like a rag doll, but the Wilt we saw on the Sixers/Lakers would have held his own, and due to his defensive commitment/versatility might have been considered a better player than Shaq during some years if they came up around the same time. But Warriors Wilt is a total anomaly historically, and could not thrive in Shaq's day or today.

Wilt wouldn't be pushing Shaq around. It is possible that he would be his best defender, Yao like, but Shaq eventually got around to getting around Yao, and Shaq in his prime would be close to dominatng Yao too. There is an aspect to Shaq that could have been slowed down because he wasn't utilizing a lot of skill. I remember when Lony Sheton, Artis Gilmore and Daryl Dawkins would try the power game and refs weren't having it. Multi-Skill is closely related to adaption, adjustment and versatility. I do think that Shaq was capable of playing another way and still being among the best, but I can't say for sure.

Warrior's Wilt would be dominant today because of his will alone. Wilt was a natural scorer - in that rarified air of Jordan, Kobe, Dantley... with MacAdoo being the only other center who was a natural scorer - a super scorer that is resourceful, resilient and capable of distance from other excellent scorers because something in then does it naturally. Resistence doesn't bother them like other players because adaption is in them. Even if their shot is off, they will find a way to be the best scorer. Kobe, Jordan, Dantley and Wilt score like crazy in any era behind them because their will and skill is just at a higher level. The mentality to lead the league in scoring by five or more points per game continuiously is something only Chamberlain did. To lead the next highest scorer by 10ppg over a seven year periord is a testament to resiliency. If Wilt had taken rebounds lightly, like most of the other great centers, minus Russell, His scoring would be even more insane.

Sure the number is hyped a little but it does't take away from the mentality to separate himself from the pack like he did. Between Hakeem, Kareem and Shaq there are only 4 scoring titles with only separation from the second scorer once. Chamberlain won his 7 straight scoring titles (like 560 games) without a threat. People can say what they want about 60's players there are three things that would make them successful today: Grit, focus, and strong wills. No way do I take the phycally gifted Darko, Javele McGee and Kwame Brown defensively over strong willed guys like Cowens, Reed and Thurmond. Everybody back then took pride in their work - that was the only way back then.

Its much harder to score in great numbers on strong wills than it is on less focused and ambitious height and athletism if you are a professional or with top talent. If you are the top scorer in division one the only way you can score more than 10ppg than the next scorer in division three for 560 near complete games is that they are unfocused, undisciplied and don't take pride in their work. Them being taller, heavier and more athletic is never that big of factor for a true scorer. Those who are players, know the deal here. I used to have to guard Lloyd Daniels when he was hot. He seemingly could do everything he wanted to do but he weren't getting 40 on us. He got it on others for sure.

Wilt had a crazy touch to do what he did. You can't exert that much will-power in a finess game to be that dominant without great know-how, touch and execution. The players these days couldn't handle Dwight Howard when he had none of those qualities... and Wilt had a super scorer's mentality.

[Owl]

Well, then you're an idiot too.
That means that he would have blocked 5 skyhooks per game and if he would be anywhere close to that then people who saw the series would confirm it.



You're not a pro volleyball player just because you played one season in a league where women and men played on the same team. And stop with your nonsense, first of all, Wilt wasn't in the Hall of Fame of volleyball as a player but as a contributor. And it wasn't the real Hall of Fame, it was a the garbage IVA Hall of Fame. IVA was a volleyball league who lasted for 5 years where women and men played on the same team.




Yes, without any documentation what so ever and with so many garbage quotes from that era I have no confidence in them quotes. Wilt himself claimed that he had a 50 inch vertical.. :facepalm



Share them sources.
Don't care about Wilt's volleyball career but for sources on his vertical/backboard reaching.



Flatfooted, he can reach 9'6" into the air. With a leap he can easily reach 12'6" or better



"One young man .... asked how high he could jump, taling only one step for a start. Wilt went back one step, kind of a long stretch back, and jumped up and put his finger over the top of the backboard and slid it back down . It was the most graceful move I've ever seen." John Parker, the cocaptain of the Kansas squad confirmed he, too, saw Wilt touch the top of the backboard. (So, years later would Al Domenico, the trainer of the Philadelphia 76ers.)

Those are, I'm guessing, the main ones.

Post edited to correct typo.

[JMT]

And as if those things are not enough, Jlauber has the latest years dedicated his whole life to Wilt Chamberlain.

Jlauber's wife, Pam, has been on the verge of divorcing Jlauber because of his obsession with Wilt. Jlauber is known in whole Galt, California for his obsession with Wilt, he even put up posters of Wilt in his neighborhood.. What kind of freak does that really?

This is inside-info from another ISH-poster who PM'd me who assured me that it was true and that he knows Jeff in real life.


WAY, way out of line. I understand you've got a beef with this poster, but this is wrong on every single level.

[Mach_3]

I'd love to see Wilt deadlift 625lbs because i don't believe that at all unless he was 350+ or so at the time

[Calabis]

Why is it so hard for young people to just realize Wilt was a freak of nature, if it was so easy back then, why didn't anyone else do what he did

I don't know about tossing around Shaq, but I'm sure he would get the best of Shaq more times than not

[jlip]

Why is it so hard for young people to just realize Wilt was a freak of nature, if it was so easy back then, why didn't anyone else do what he did

I don't know about tossing around Shaq, but I'm sure he would get the best of Shaq more times than not

Once we get beyond all of the hyperbole that is all that Hill is basically saying.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Once we get beyond all of the hyperbole that is all that Hill is basically saying.
Anyone who says that MJ in the 60s wouldn't average 25, or Wilt would move around Shaq is a delusional old man possibly with alheimers and dementia.
What Hill is really saying is don't forget about my weak little era.

[CavaliersFTW]

Sonny Hill's heavily biased (favored) perception of the 60's and 70's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Deuce Bigalow's heavily biased (slanderous) perception of the 60's and 70's

So what have we all learned here? Take Sonny's words with a grain of Salt, and (as usual) it's best to reject Deuce's entirely. :lol

[Optimus Prime]

Anyone who says that MJ in the 60s wouldn't average 25, or Wilt would move around Shaq is a delusional old man possibly with alheimers and dementia.
What Hill is really saying is don't forget about my weak little era.

What is weak is using that tired old argument. Watch some tape...especially Wilt around the time he won his first championship with the Sixers and afterwards. Hint: it wasn't skinny white guys in bifocals guarding him. Another protip: Wilt wasn't always a skinny kid.

:kobe:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Sonny Hill's heavily biased (favored) perception of the 60's and 70's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Deuce Bigalow's heavily biased (slanderous) perception of the 60's and 70's

So what have we all learned here? Take Sonny's words with a grain of Salt, and (as usual) it's best to reject Deuce's entirely. :lol
Whatever you say Wilt historian

[Deuce Bigalow]

What is weak is using that tired old argument. Watch some tape...especially Wilt around the time he won his first championship with the Sixers and afterwards. Hint: it wasn't skinny white guys in bifocals guarding him. Another protip: Wilt wasn't always a skinny kid.

:kobe:
http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/13/35/27/3003879/10/628x471.jpg
http://www.kshs.org/people/graphics/chamberlain_wilt.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/writers/joe_posnanski/03/02/wilt.chamberlain/wilt-poz2.jpg
http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2010/01/18/wilt_chamberlain_bkc_1956_nw0001_t460.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1102/nba-all-star-rookies/images/wilt-chamberlain.jpg
http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2005/03/30/p15WiltChamberlain_t960.jpg
http://bcallstarsbasketball.net/cart/history/wilt_chamberlain.jpg

[Optimus Prime]

Total fail Deuce. It's obvious you just have an agenda against Wilt. I said pay attention to him around his Sixers ring and afterwards. Yet...you spam a bunch of pictures of the Warriors, Kansas, the Globetrotters, etc. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

:kobe:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Total fail Deuce. It's obvious you just have an agenda against Wilt. I said pay attention to him around his Sixers ring and afterwards. Yet...you spam a bunch of pictures of the Warriors, Kansas, the Globetrotters, etc. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

:kobe:
All his high numbers come before the lane widened in '65-'66
From 1959-1965 he was racking up record breaking points, that was the weak era of competition compared to HIM.

[Optimus Prime]

All his high numbers come before the lane widened in '65-'66
From 1959-1965 he was racking up record breaking points, that was the weak era of competition compared to HIM.

All of his RIDICULOUS numbers came before the lane widened. Unless you don't consider like 20/20 to be "high numbers". :facepalm

Also:

Prior to the 1966–67 NBA season, the friendly but unassertive Schayes was replaced by a familiar face, the crafty but firm Alex Hannum. In what Cherry calls a tumultuous locker room meeting, Hannum addressed several key issues he observed during the last season, several of them putting Chamberlain in an unfavorable light. Sixers forward Chet Walker testified that on several occasions, players had to pull Chamberlain and Hannum apart to prevent a fistfight.[65] Fellow forward Billy Cunningham observed that Hannum "never backed down" and "showed who was the boss". By doing this, he won Chamberlain's respect.[65] When emotions cooled off, Hannum pointed out to Chamberlain that he was on the same page in trying to win a title; but to pull this off, he – like his teammates – had to "act like a man" both on and off the court.[65] Concerning basketball, he persuaded him to change his style of play. Loaded with several other players who could score, such as future Hall-of-Famers Hal Greer and newcomer Billy Cunningham, Hannum wanted Chamberlain to concentrate more on defense.[4][66]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain#Philadelphia_76ers_.281965.E2.80. 931968.29

Multiple sources cited. Wilt focused more on defense and rebounding starting his championship season and afterwards. And even then, he averaged over 20/20 until he went to LA.

:kobe:

[Deuce Bigalow]

All of his RIDICULOUS numbers came before the lane widened. Unless you don't consider like 20/20 to be "high numbers". :facepalm

Also:

Prior to the 1966–67 NBA season, the friendly but unassertive Schayes was replaced by a familiar face, the crafty but firm Alex Hannum. In what Cherry calls a tumultuous locker room meeting, Hannum addressed several key issues he observed during the last season, several of them putting Chamberlain in an unfavorable light. Sixers forward Chet Walker testified that on several occasions, players had to pull Chamberlain and Hannum apart to prevent a fistfight.[65] Fellow forward Billy Cunningham observed that Hannum "never backed down" and "showed who was the boss". By doing this, he won Chamberlain's respect.[65] When emotions cooled off, Hannum pointed out to Chamberlain that he was on the same page in trying to win a title; but to pull this off, he – like his teammates – had to "act like a man" both on and off the court.[65] Concerning basketball, he persuaded him to change his style of play. Loaded with several other players who could score, such as future Hall-of-Famers Hal Greer and newcomer Billy Cunningham, Hannum wanted Chamberlain to concentrate more on defense.[4][66]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain#Philadelphia_76ers_.281965.E2.80. 931968.29

Multiple sources cited. Wilt focused more on defense and rebounding starting his championship season and afterwards. And even then, he averaged over 20/20 until he went to LA.

:kobe:
Teams averaged 60-70 RPG back then, now they average in the low-mid 40s RPG. And no NBA player plays 48 MPG anymore.


Wilt '71 Playoffs: 21.3 TR% (12 games)
Wilt '72 Playoffs: 20.2 TRB% (15 games)
Wilt '73 Playoffs: 21.7 TRB% (17 games)

Moses '77 playoffs: 21.7 TRB% (12 games)
Moses '83 Playoffs: 21.9 TRB% (13 games)

Duncan '08 Playoffs: 21.4 TRB% (17 games)

Dwight '09 Playoffs: 24.5 TRB% (23 games)

Shaq '03 Playoffs: 21.3 TRB% (12 games)

Rodman '95 Playoffs: 25.7 TRB% (14 games)
Rodman '89 Playoffs: 24.4 TRB% (17 games)
Rodman '96 Playoffs: 24.3 TRB% (18 games)
Rodman '98 Playoffs: 21.3 TRB% (21 games)


And, yes I know that his offensive role changed. Still doesn't change the fact that when he got those big numbers the era was not that strong.

[fpliii]

Wilt wouldn't be pushing Shaq around. It is possible that he would be his best defender, Yao like, but Shaq eventually got around to getting around Yao, and Shaq in his prime would be close to dominatng Yao too. There is an aspect to Shaq that could have been slowed down because he wasn't utilizing a lot of skill. I remember when Lony Sheton, Artis Gilmore and Daryl Dawkins would try the power game and refs weren't having it. Multi-Skill is closely related to adaption, adjustment and versatility. I do think that Shaq was capable of playing another way and still being among the best, but I can't say for sure.

Even the Wilt that played with the Sixers and in L.A.? I think there's a good chance he could've had his way with Shaq at times, but I guess it wouldn't be completely one-sided.

Warrior's Wilt would be dominant today because of his will alone. Wilt was a natural scorer - in that rarified air of Jordan, Kobe, Dantley... with MacAdoo being the only other center who was a natural scorer - a super scorer that is resourceful, resilient and capable of distance from other excellent scorers because something in then does it naturally. Resistence doesn't bother them like other players because adaption is in them. Even if their shot is off, they will find a way to be the best scorer. Kobe, Jordan, Dantley and Wilt score like crazy in any era behind them because their will and skill is just at a higher level. The mentality to lead the league in scoring by five or more points per game continuiously is something only Chamberlain did. To lead the next highest scorer by 10ppg over a seven year periord is a testament to resiliency. If Wilt had taken rebounds lightly, like most of the other great centers, minus Russell, His scoring would be even more insane.

I understand all of this, but a big part of it is his role. How many other players dedicated themselves to scoring to the extent to which Will did at the time? He was a great rebounder and man defender yes, but from what I've seen/read, his coach called for the game to revolve completely around this scoring. I respect the scoring, but I really don't think Wilt was a better player before the paradigm shift.

Sure the number is hyped a little but it does't take away from the mentality to separate himself from the pack like he did. Between Hakeem, Kareem and Shaq there are only 4 scoring titles with only separation from the second scorer once. Chamberlain won his 7 straight scoring titles (like 560 games) without a threat. People can say what they want about 60's players there are three things that would make them successful today: Grit, focus, and strong wills. No way do I take the phycally gifted Darko, Javele McGee and Kwame Brown defensively over strong willed guys like Cowens, Reed and Thurmond. Everybody back then took pride in their work - that was the only way back then.

When I speak about context I wasn't speaking of personell being the context issue, but more so the evolution of play-calling, defensive schemes, and rule changes (legalization of zone defense, 5 seconds back to the basket).

Its much harder to score in great numbers on strong wills than it is on less focused and ambitious height and athletism if you are a professional or with top talent. If you are the top scorer in division one the only way you can score more than 10ppg than the next scorer in division three for 560 near complete games is that they are unfocused, undisciplied and don't take pride in their work. Them being taller, heavier and more athletic is never that big of factor for a true scorer. Those who are players, know the deal here. I used to have to guard Lloyd Daniels when he was hot. He seemingly could do everything he wanted to do but he weren't getting 40 on us. He got it on others for sure.

I agree with what you've said here, but I'm not comparing Wilt against other players. Rather, I'm comparing Wilt against himself after he evolved as a player (BTW Lloyd Daniels was an amazing player, in another thread or PM I'd be interested in hearing more about your experiences with him; his career didn't shake out as one would have expected it to from the start, but he was a legendary talent).

Wilt had a crazy touch to do what he did. You can't exert that much will-power in a finess game to be that dominant without great know-how, touch and execution. The players these days couldn't handle Dwight Howard when he had none of those qualities... and Wilt had a super scorer's mentality.

Agree completely.

I think you might've mischaracterized my thoughts as criticism of Wilt as a player. I believe Wilt was an amazing scorer, but personally I have little interested historically in a guy who is primarily a scorer. I'm extremely interested in hearing any of your thoughts about Wilt after going to the Sixers and during his time with L.A. As a defensive anchor he was one of the best we've seen in league history, as well as an amazing passer (possibly the the highest level ever at the position). Any insight would be greatly appreciated.



All of his RIDICULOUS numbers came before the lane widened. Unless you don't consider like 20/20 to be "high numbers". :facepalm

Also:

Prior to the 1966–67 NBA season, the friendly but unassertive Schayes was replaced by a familiar face, the crafty but firm Alex Hannum. In what Cherry calls a tumultuous locker room meeting, Hannum addressed several key issues he observed during the last season, several of them putting Chamberlain in an unfavorable light. Sixers forward Chet Walker testified that on several occasions, players had to pull Chamberlain and Hannum apart to prevent a fistfight.[65] Fellow forward Billy Cunningham observed that Hannum "never backed down" and "showed who was the boss". By doing this, he won Chamberlain's respect.[65] When emotions cooled off, Hannum pointed out to Chamberlain that he was on the same page in trying to win a title; but to pull this off, he – like his teammates – had to "act like a man" both on and off the court.[65] Concerning basketball, he persuaded him to change his style of play. Loaded with several other players who could score, such as future Hall-of-Famers Hal Greer and newcomer Billy Cunningham, Hannum wanted Chamberlain to concentrate more on defense.[4][66]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain#Philadelphia_76ers_.281965.E2.80. 931968.29

Multiple sources cited. Wilt focused more on defense and rebounding starting his championship season and afterwards. And even then, he averaged over 20/20 until he went to LA.

:kobe:

I personally actually think he was better after the change. Had he played that style his entire career he'd have a case for GOAT in my book (and probably multiple more championships). I don't fault him for what he did (since it was partially on coaches, management, and even owners), but that is part of the reason he doesn't have a case for GOAT in my book (with Jordan, Russell, Magic).

[JMT]

I think you might've mischaracterized my thoughts as criticism of Wilt as a player. I believe Wilt was an amazing scorer, but personally I have little interested historically in a guy who is primarily a scorer. I'm extremely interested in hearing any of your thoughts about Wilt after going to the Sixers and during his time with L.A. As a defensive anchor he was one of the best we've seen in league history, as well as an amazing passer (possibly the the highest level ever at the position). Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


Chamberlain didn't magically change his game. He was always a great scorer, rebounder and defender, not just a scorer. He was an extremely gifted passer; don't forget the guy spent time with the Globetrotters when they played vs real competition. The things that dramatically changed were the direction of his team, people's perception and (with the Lakers) the emergence of Father Time, who remains undefeated.

The notion that a generational scorer should be criticized because his teams/coaches insisted that he score just doesn't make sense to me. People look at Wilt's teammates and opponents and mock their athleticism...then bitch because the guy who could score, virtually at will, did so for the benefit of his team. It defies logic.

[Optimus Prime]

I think you might've mischaracterized my thoughts as criticism of Wilt as a player. I believe Wilt was an amazing scorer, but personally I have little interested historically in a guy who is primarily a scorer. I'm extremely interested in hearing any of your thoughts about Wilt after going to the Sixers and during his time with L.A. As a defensive anchor he was one of the best we've seen in league history, as well as an amazing passer (possibly the the highest level ever at the position). Any insight would be greatly appreciated.




I personally actually think he was better after the change. Had he played that style his entire career he'd have a case for GOAT in my book (and probably multiple more championships). I don't fault him for what he did (since it was partially on coaches, management, and even owners), but that is part of the reason he doesn't have a case for GOAT in my book (with Jordan, Russell, Magic).

I think Wilt was better after his championship season too but dang, 100 points and 50 ppg/40 rpg is ridiculous. :eek:

:kobe:

[fpliii]

Chamberlain didn't magically change his game. He was always a great scorer, rebounder and defender, not just a scorer. He was an extremely gifted passer; don't forget the guy spent time with the Globetrotters when they played vs real competition. The things that dramatically changed were the direction of his team, people's perception and (with the Lakers) the emergence of Father Time, who remains undefeated.

The notion that a generational scorer should be criticized because his teams/coaches insisted that he score just doesn't make sense to me. People look at Wilt's teammates and opponents and mock their athleticism...then bitch because the guy who could score, virtually at will, did so for the benefit of his team. It defies logic.

I'm not criticizing him, I just think he was more valuable as a player at that point (Wilt himself said the same thing; in articles published around the time of the announcement of the NBA 35th Anniversary Team, Wilt he talked about he was better when he played a more powerful game at the pivot; he also ripped into Ralph Sampson for playing 'small' a few years later). I mentioned coaches/management/teams calling plays so I don't blame Wilt, but with Hannum in place Wilt was incredible (I don't care for box score stats much, but the man almost averaged a quad-double in the 67 playoffs, and came close to the same dominance in 66 and 68 as well). As I've noted before though, Hannum was a very intelligent man (only coach to get past Russell's Celtics, and he did it twice), so perhaps he just saw something that the rest of us didn't.


I think Wilt was better after his championship season too but dang, 100 points and 50 ppg/40 rpg is ridiculous. :eek:

:kobe:

lol very true; he was obviously an incredibly capable scorer, but I think he was better later on

[millwad]

I think Wilt was better after his championship season too but dang, 100 points and 50 ppg/40 rpg is ridiculous. :eek:

:kobe:

Those are empty stats in an era where inflated stats were the bomb, then go and check his playoff-scoring and his efficiency..

[CavaliersFTW]

All his high numbers come before the lane widened in '65-'66
From 1959-1965 he was racking up record breaking points, that was the weak era of competition compared to HIM.
He averaged almost 40ppg during season the lane was widened BEFORE he got sick and was traded to the 76ers. Can't remember how many games but it's enough for me think his ppg dropped off sharply due to the changes in coaching / teammates not so much due to the lane. It makes a big difference when your teams plan goes from "feed the ball to Wilt so he can score" to "If you've got an open shot take it, if not pass to Wilt at which point he will either score or pass it to the open man"

[fpliii]

Those are empty stats in an era where inflated stats were the bomb, then go and check his playoff-scoring and his efficiency..

just googled your avatar, and it turns out this is his daughter:

http://www.cammydierking.com/

[millwad]

just googled your avatar, and it turns out this is his daughter:

http://www.cammydierking.com/

Yes, she is the amazing Connie Dierking's daughter.

[fpliii]

He averaged almost 40ppg during season the lane was widened BEFORE he got sick and was traded to the 76ers. Can't remember how many games but to me it is clear his ppg dropped off sharply due to the change of coaching / teammates not so much due to the lane.

true, lane was actually widened prior to the 64-65 season:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

here are his numbers normalized per 100 possessions during that season, the season before, and the season after:

team / PTS / MP / G / team games / team MP / Pace / PPG / points per 36 min / points per 100 possessions
63-64 SFW / 2948 / 3689 / 80 / 80 / 19325 / 114.6 / 36.85 / 28.77 / 33.69
64-65 SFW / 1480 / 1743 / 38 / 80 / 19350 / 119.4 / 38.95 / 30.57 / 34.40
64-65 PHI / 1054 / 1558 / 35 / 80 / 19275 / 118.8 / 30.11 / 24.35 / 27.44
65-66 PHI / 2649 / 3737 / 79 / 80 / 19250 / 122.5 / 33.53 / 25.52 / 27.85

so his scoring didn't go down as a result of the lane change entirely I guess, but it altered his style of play

[Whoah10115]

I think OP is too interested in seeing a bitch fight.



And that's really lame.

[Psileas]

Yes, she is the amazing Connie Dierking's daughter.

I can understand the interest on Connie Dierking. After all, you have to be amazing to have games like this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196911240MIL.html
(Now, watch him vs MVP Willis Reed)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196911180NYK.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196911280CIN.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196912090NYK.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/197002060CIN.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/197002070NYK.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/197003210NYK.html (wow, talk about abusing Reed here)
:D

[Pointguard]

I think you might've mischaracterized my thoughts as criticism of Wilt as a player. I believe Wilt was an amazing scorer, but personally I have little interested historically in a guy who is primarily a scorer. I'm extremely interested in hearing any of your thoughts about Wilt after going to the Sixers and during his time with L.A. As a defensive anchor he was one of the best we've seen in league history, as well as an amazing passer (possibly the the highest level ever at the position). Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


Wilt was never just a scorer. And was probably always a top five defensive player. There was always an intentional effort to make sure he was not characterized as a good defensive player despite always having claimed space in the middle and from his early scoring days he's affected the shooting of good offensive centers early on - and he's done that at the highest levels. And came into the league as a better rebounder than Russell. He revolutionized scoring which made the game popular, nevermind domination and accuracy at levels not seen before. The game could really lay claim to skill in scoring with Wilt's proficiency. So the scoring can't be ignored. And his separation in scoring was/is unlike anything in major sports.

I don't hold it against Wilt that he was ahead of his time and coaches could not keep up. He could score and dominate beyond the levels we seen Shaq do and could defend like Russell or Dikembe. And Wilt could pass uncommonly well as assist was a lot harder to amass back then and he could lead the league. Coaching could not find a happy medium with his scoring and other parts of his game. They would never try morphing Shaq into a defensive player above his scoring. They never did it with Kareem either. Wilt was the first and the last we seen of that experiment. I doubt any prodigious scorer from the center position will ever be molded into the Russell paradigm again. I'm pretty sure Hakeem could do what Russell could do physically, but they weren't trying to turn him into Russell.

In no other sport would that craziness even be imagined. Here was Wilt scoring 25% more than any other player in his previous seven years and then have a second year player (Barry) take twice as many shots as him per game? I mean 14 FGA per game while in his prime? 9th on his team in FGA per minute? I think coaching made it work that year, but it was primarily a failure overall. As I said in other post... the goal was to contain Chamberlain rather than unleash his total game. So, the best Chamberlain at that time should have been taking 23FGA per game (about the same as Shaq/Hakeem prorated for pace) opposed to the 15FGA per game the next 5 years in Philly and LA which would have not taken away from his excellent regular center duties.

[fpliii]

Wilt was never just a scorer. And was probably always a top five defensive player. There was always an intentional effort to make sure he was not characterized as a good defensive player despite always having claimed space in the middle and from his early scoring days he's affected the shooting of good offensive centers early on - and he's done that at the highest levels. And came into the league as a better rebounder than Russell. He revolutionized scoring which made the game popular, nevermind domination and accuracy at levels not seen before. The game could really lay claim to skill in scoring with Wilt's proficiency. So the scoring can't be ignored. And his separation in scoring was/is unlike anything in major sports.

I don't hold it against Wilt that he was ahead of his time and coaches could not keep up. He could score and dominate beyond the levels we seen Shaq do and could defend like Russell or Dikembe. And Wilt could pass uncommonly well as assist was a lot harder to amass back then and he could lead the league. Coaching could not find a happy medium with his scoring and other parts of his game. They would never try morphing Shaq into a defensive player above his scoring. They never did it with Kareem either. Wilt was the first and the last we seen of that experiment. I doubt any prodigious scorer from the center position will ever be molded into the Russell paradigm again. I'm pretty sure Hakeem could do what Russell could do physically, but they weren't trying to turn him into Russell.

In no other sport would that craziness even be imagined. Here was Wilt scoring 25% more than any other player in his previous seven years and then have a second year player (Barry) take twice as many shots as him per game? I mean 14 FGA per game while in his prime? 9th on his team in FGA per minute? I think coaching made it work that year, but it was primarily a failure overall. As I said in other post... the goal was to contain Chamberlain rather than unleash his total game. So, the best Chamberlain at that time should have been taking 23FGA per game (about the same as Shaq/Hakeem prorated for pace) opposed to the 15FGA per game the next 5 years in Philly and LA which would have not taken away from his excellent regular center duties.

I wasn't around then, so I can't say much about his defense other than what I've watched/read, but was Wilt capable of anchoring a defense during his time with the Warriors, or did was he primarily playing guys straight up?

I respect your opinions above most others on the board since you know what you're talking about and have an immense volume of knowledge to share, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Wilt's scoring feats (note though that I am NOT comparing Wilt to other players, but rather to himself later on). As I said in the post you quoted though, I'm very interested in your thoughts on Wilt during his time with the Sixers and LA. Any information would be greatly appreciated, as I'm extremely interested in learning more about those years.

[Pointguard]

I wasn't around then, so I can't say much about his defense other than what I've watched/read, but was Wilt capable of anchoring a defense during his time with the Warriors, or did was he primarily playing guys straight up?

I respect your opinions above most others on the board since you know what you're talking about and have an immense volume of knowledge to share, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Wilt's scoring feats (note though that I am NOT comparing Wilt to other players, but rather to himself later on). As I said in the post you quoted though, I'm very interested in your thoughts on Wilt during his time with the Sixers and LA. Any information would be greatly appreciated, as I'm extremely interested in learning more about those years.
Man, we all want that information! I think a lot of things will come to light, tho.

[Calabis]

I wasn't around then, so I can't say much about his defense other than what I've watched/read, but was Wilt capable of anchoring a defense during his time with the Warriors, or did was he primarily playing guys straight up?

I respect your opinions above most others on the board since you know what you're talking about and have an immense volume of knowledge to share, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Wilt's scoring feats (note though that I am NOT comparing Wilt to other players, but rather to himself later on). As I said in the post you quoted though, I'm very interested in your thoughts on Wilt during his time with the Sixers and LA. Any information would be greatly appreciated, as I'm extremely interested in learning more about those years.

Wilt was a freak go ask Larry Brown and Magic Johnson what they observed Wilt doing in his mid 40's

"When challenged, Wilt could do almost anything he wanted. In 1961 a new star named Walt Bellamy came into the league. Bellamy was 6-foot-10, and was scoring 30 points a game. First time they played against each other, they met at half court. Bellamy said, 'Hello, Mr. Chamberlain. I'm Walter Bellamy.' Chamberlain reached for Bellamy's hand and said, 'Hello, Walter. You won't get a shot off in the first half.' Wilt then blocked Bellamy's first nine shots. At the start of the second half Wilt said to Bellamy, 'Okay, Walter. Now you can play.'"

KAJ on Wilt: "Chamberlain played the game the same way Russell did, except he scored so much more

If Howard is some superstar in today's league, Wilt would shit on it....Shaq would lose this battle, more than he would ever win it

[KOBE143]

:lol at Wilt would toss Shaq like a rag doll.. :facepalm

If skinny Kareem can easily posterised him many times, Shaq would destroy him easily.. Shaq would make him his bitch and people will remember Wilt as Shawn Bradley Aka NBA Bitch..

[Optimus Prime]

:lol at Wilt would toss Shaq like a rag doll.. :facepalm

If skinny Kareem can easily posterised him many times, Shaq would destroy him easily.. Shaq would make him his bitch and people will remember Wilt as Shawn Bradley Aka NBA Bitch..

Kid you are a terrible poster and an embarrassment to real Kobe fans.

:kobe:

[scandisk_]

Kid you are a terrible poster and an embarrassment to real Kobe fans.

:kobe:

Meh, most of em are just dummy accounts for trolling purposes. Kobe I love you, the f*ck is that name. :lol

[JMT]

I wasn't around then, so I can't say much about his defense other than what I've watched/read, but was Wilt capable of anchoring a defense during his time with the Warriors, or did was he primarily playing guys straight up?



Wilt was tremendous defender. Anchoring a defense has a different connotation now, as team defense is key. There was a lot more 1v1 in those days, but Chamberlain presented one of the great safety nets any team could ever have.

[Optimus Prime]

Meh, most of em are just dummy accounts for trolling purposes. Kobe I love you, the f*ck is that name. :lol

Kid's not even old enough to watch Shaq "posterize" people, yet he is suddenly an expert on Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, etc. :facepalm

:kobe:

[millwad]

Kid's not even old enough to watch Shaq "posterize" people, yet he is suddenly an expert on Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, etc. :facepalm

:kobe:

It's funny how you call out plenty of poster for being trolls etc., and then you're the one who is writing crappy posts while still having a red bar.

I've never been a rep-fanatic but one thing is clear, if a poster is in the red category then it's obvious that he's crap.